if you are a believer Christ, you should not condemed people or any organization that make the world confuse. Let me ask you a question, what do you do to make people as a better person they can be? What gospel you teach to the people so that they can have a better life.
Mormons are not evil. They are however a controlling people. In any event how could I any longer follow a church that was created by a man, Joseph Smith, who was shot in the back and himself shot 2 people, and his last cry was not an outcry for God or Jesus. He cried out for a Mason to help him.
I think that is great. It doesn't have to do with tithing but good try. There is a lot more to a temple recommend then tithing and I see the wisdom in them doing this.
@nintendoseagaill well poopoo on you too. Let me help... Lucifer is not Satan. In the Bible, Lucifer is an unknown, "probably future Babylonian king" who would fall from heaven like Satan did. Biblically, Satan fell from heaven after seeking to become a God. So, the Mormon Jesus is a spirit brother of a Babylonian king named lucifer. More information....The 2 sticks mentioned in Ezekiel are NOT the Bookofmormon and the Bible. The 2 sticks are the 2 tribes of Israel. See the light? Find Jesus.
@awolLDSasap shur. and the cathlic jesus is the cousin of the babylonian king. and the christian jesus is the step father of the babylonian king. should i go on ?? any way, lern more about the church before doing your own statements and other un true things.
@nintendoseagaill after 40 plus years in the church, I done lerned everything I needed to know about Mormonism. I found evidence of Joseph lying to control people. Like stocking a person, Joseph schmoozed and then threatened teenage girls, other mens wives, mothers and daughters and sisters to marry him and then he bedded them. Fact... Joseph never saw God. He never met Peter James and John. A cult tactic requires the members to repeat, "I know it's true". In reality, It's not true.
@awolLDSasap you found evidence yet you dont show them. but o well we have the right to choose any religion. but you dont have the right to say false things about them
@nintendoseagaill Joseph married and bedded other women. Joseph lied to Emma and the congregation about his extra wives. No evidence for ancient Israelites in the Americas. There were no horses, chariots, steel swords or elephants during 400 BC Americas. Joseph fibbed. Mormonism is void of evidence. Repeating "I know the church is true" will never make it true. A church cannot save you. The eternal uncreated God, "Jesus Christ" is the only door to salvation. These are facts you can bank on.
@awolLDSasap nope non of that is even close to true. i mean i know people ho hate are going to make false storys of facts that dont even make sence(like what happend to MJ) who can maintain so many women of thay are having troble with one.jesus will come one day and if you are not preapaird well....lets just say asking for forgivness in the last min wont help
@awolLDSasap You accuse but with no facts. The only fact here is that you are a liar. You have no proof that he didn't see God, are you willing to die for that testimony? Joseph and his Brother did die for there testimony as well as many others. Peter would be a good one to mention for he died for his testimony gave it up once but stood for it in the end with his blood yet there were still naysayers like you..
@scottwins2 True faith consists of substance and evidence. Mormonism lacks evidence. Joseph never saw God. He created a Jesus who was the spirit brother of "lucifer, a Babylonian king". So Joseph and Hyrum died for a testimony of spirit brother Jesus? That is a false Christ. We have been warned about false prophets bringing false Christs.
@scottwins2 Christians cannot accept Josephs doctrines of merited salvation & exaltion. These are opposed to the Word and deny the power of God which is grace. The Word is the fulfillment of prophecy. He is the good news, the way, the truth and life.
@awolLDSasap If I were a so called Christian all I would have to do is sit back do anything I want put my hands on the TV or Radio say I believe praise Jesus Grace says me! Why if I believed in that and it were tru? The bible would be but a pamphlet. Leaving out All the commandments, the 10 and the New, as well as works since faith is no good without it...... etc Sorry your God of Neo Platoism is Platos fantasy.
@scottwins2 Put your hands on the tv and praise Jesus? Have you read Romans? Temple ordinance and baptizing the dead is legalism, and Christs sacrifice wasn't sufficient. The Bible would be a pamphlet? The Jews failed, what makes you think Mormons obey the law? If there was a law that could save men, Christ died in vain. "In Christ" we are led unto good works. By grace through faith we are saved, not of works, lest any man should boast. Don't be sorry. Platoism is myopic apologetics.
@awolLDSasap As I said before your view the bible as a pamphelt letting your self of on Grace only. Makes religion too easy. At Christs whim absurd. He gave us laws to learn obdience and expects us to be perfect in them. "Be ye perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." Note: Christ is refering to his Father in Heaven, showing Christ and the Father are seperate and distinct from each other. Go ahead and have your last say we have gotten into this before and you are bias in everyway.
How mean. If someone's wondering why LDS and exLDS men tend to go through periods of depression and losing or questionin their faith, this sounds like it could be yet another reason, (as if they needed more).
Bottom line for Exodus and every Shawn fan then? Do you condone Shawn using exaggerations and half truths? It's OK then? Meaning, your animosity against the LDS Church and its members is such that it doesn't matter what mean lies Shawn will spread? Anybody ready to admit your "Christian" love?
@BaurakAle7 - If you didn´t know it, I´m taking about Shawn. When you ask a question like that, are you joking of don´t know how to read? Please answer! Thanks for the clarification.
@BaurakAle7 - My friend, don´t patronize Shawn. He´s not a baby to get "confused." He does what he does with the deverered purpose of spreading lies and half truths. I´m in the process of reviewing EVERY video to point out to his innaccuracies and believe me, it´s going to be naughty not because I have any interest to attack him personally but to show he has little credibility based on the "facts" he presents. Buckle up my friends. Again, critic my faith, but don´t define it with falsehoods!
Yes, yes! Why does the LDS Church have a "secretive" manual? SECRET'??? The last time I heard a secret known by two or more is no longer a secret. Check the statistics of the Church and this tells me that at least 86,304 people worldwide have these manuals. So much for your secret. LOL!! You guys crack me up!! What about the Jimmy Swaggarts, the Robert Schullers even insignificant ones like Shawn, they have proceedures that aren´t public. Your job have private proceedures. So WHAT??? Secret!!!!!
@BaurakAle7 Everything Shawn talks about is the issue regarding priesthood holders.....that is entirely open sourced in Handbook 2 and you know it. There is nothing secretive or hidden there and you know it.
Then why all the confusion amongst the many, many Christian churches? Is God the author of said confusion? They all follow the Bible and they all quote the Bible to "prove" their positions.....are they all correct? Are they all wrong???
Verbatim quotes??? Isn't, as all knowing Shawn states, the LDS Handbook held by only a select few??? Hmmm, perhaps you'd like to rethink the statement that the document is secretive? Funny how no one has responded to that yet.
Anyways, all of your posts prove Shawn is lieing: worthy priesthood holders may participate in priesthood ordinances.
I love how Shawn also lies at the very start....he states the Church Handbook is secretly kept by Church leaders: It's publicly posted on lds dot org for the entire world to see and review!!! I have no problem that Shawn preaches against the LDS church and modern prophets....his freedom of choice trumps everything, however, blatant lies just goes to show what an absolute scum bag he really is.
Go to the source....Shawn, as usual, deflects the whole story...
As guided by the Spirit and the instructions in the next paragraph, bishops and stake presidents have discretion to allow priesthood holders who are not fully temple worthy to perform or participate in some ordinances and blessings.
This is simply teaching that a man should be worthy....something despised by Shawn evidently
@djwright44 Sounds Great, "Be worthy" so when can you "become" worthy according to God? Under Gods Laws when can any of us be "worthy"? We can never we worth according to God unless we are "Followers of Jesus" read Ephesians 4:1-16 and see what Paul say about being worthy, read it in context, are you a "prisoner of the Lord"? do you know what it is to be a prisoner?
Do you read tith or baptism in what Paul wrote here?
Once again to everybody´s knowledge, Shawn didnot check his facts. I love Shawn because as I´ve said before, he is the only Evangelical Anti-Mormon who will go on TV to spread false information, making a fool of himself. But... I don´t blame him but those who fall for his half truths. The Manual actually says that Dads who may not be temple worthy MAY bless their children, confer the priesthood and participate. What number did you call Shawn? Well.... it was the wrong number LOL!!!!! Anyone???
@alexgomez2 So you attack and belittle tha accuse with no bases? You say Shawn spreads false information then say he has half truths? is it false or half truths, what is false and half truth? You have not given anything to justify your judgment on? I belive Shawn is 100% accurate but you do not want to believe it. Or you would be showing us how Shawn was wrong. When a Mormon tried to show us we prove them wrong, they just call names "anti-mormon" and "say" it is wrong with no proof.
I posted, word for word, below the exact instructions.....priesthood holding men without temple recommends are permitted to perform ordinances. We are not "attacking" without basis.....Shawn is, again, off his rocker. A half-truth...a lie....not telling the whole the story...Shawn is guilty of all of them......as usual.
@djwright44 the Aaronic priesthood was limited to Jewish male members from the tribe of Levi who were descendents from Aaron (Ex. 28:1; Num. 3:5-13; Heb. 7:5). The priesthood was inherited by descent from Aaron, not received through ordination. It was never supposed to be practiced by Gentiles (non-Jews). There is absolutely no teaching about this doctrine of Aaronic priesthood being practiced by Gentiles in the Old or New Testaments.
There is absolutely no mention in the entire Bible about a special class of Melchizedek priests. Melchizedek is mentioned briefly in the Old Testament in two places (Gen. 14:18-20 and Ps. 110:1). In Genesis 14, Melchizedek is a king and priest who blesses Abraham and to whom Abraham gives tithes. Psalm 110, a royal Messianic Psalm, applies this priesthood of Melchizedek to Jesus who is also a priest and king (Matt. 22:44; 26:64; Mark 16:19; Heb. 5:5-6) which is another subject.
The bottome line is the Bible teaches that all believers have priesthood authority (1 Peter 2:5, 9; Rev. 1:6; 5:10; 20:6). Even in the Old Testament, the nation of Israel was to be a kingdom of priests (Ex. 19:5-6). However, Jesus is the unique High Priest (Heb. 7:23-8:13). Each believer has the authority to preach the Gospel, baptize, and govern the kingdom of God on this earth.
I hope this helps, unless this also is just "half truths"??
@Exodus314IAM There were many things that non Jews were excluded from. Gentiles were " dogs" if I remember correctly. However ,after some arguments, Gentiles were allowed to be baptized and participate in christs church. That boundary was broken. So they can now become teachers, deacons, etc. The keys given to Peter would have included priesthood authority. The Melchizedek priesthood was described as the Priest after the power of the most high "Christ" so if gave that authority to others.......
@Exodus314IAM ..ran out of room, then it would continue don't you think? I appreciate your knowledge of the scripture and would like your thoughts. Thanks.
@Exodus314IAM - Listen, you continue loving your lier friend. If he´s willing to lie and exaggerate to make more friends like you that´s your problems and his problem. But as long as I won´t allow him to continue with his campaign of missinformtion and be iddlle because that would make me part of his lies. We LDS people welcome dialogue and even critic but I personally won´t allow him to continue defining my faith in front of gullible and ignorant people who don´t check his facts. No way!!
@alexgomez2 I think the problem is not me or others who agree with what Shawn puts out but the problem is thoughs who are lost and being tricked by a false Jesus (brother of satan) and a false idea that there is something they can "do" to "earn" thier salvation on thier own? Mormonism is a tool used by satan to separate good faithful people from God and eternity.
@BaurakAle7 I don't just read anything, I read everything in context and I still stand by my point that the Mormon church more closely follows the doctrines in the New Testament than any other organized religion.
@BaurakAle7 Are you normally this condescending? I don't know if you listen to CSN radio or not but I try to listen to them as much as I can. One specific challenge was to read 20 versus before and after a particular verse to acheive context. I did just that with 1 Cor 15:29 because that day they talked about the "false" practice of baptism for the dead. By doing that I saw that Paul was talking about the problems they were having with resurrection and how Botd supported his argument.
@BaurakAle7 Try giving me what you do believe. I'm sure the ani-Mormon literature you seem to have so handy would also tell you that Joseph had different contradicting accounts. If you look closely, they don't contradict. Some accounts may have left some stuff out but that's it. It's actually extremely close to Paul's different accounts of his vision of the Savior.
@BaurakAle7 Again, be more specific in your definition of the Trinity because Amulek did not believe in the trinity as defined by the Christian creeds. That particular exchange was an interrogation by Zeezron, not a little sit down teaching environment so Amulek was very guarded in his comments.
Again, you need to be more specific with the differences between McConkie and the prophet because there is quite a bit said between the two. Still, nothing like the Christian definition.
@BaurakAle7 Your second point amazes me . Mor 8:32 is actually very specific to a particular denomination. As for D&C, have you forgotten about what will happen when the Lord returns. Obedience to the law of tithing is living a higher law. You have to live the higher law in order to tolerate the events immediately before the ushering in of the millennium. Those not living the higher law will be swept off the earth with fire. No sin forgiveness for money is even mentioned.
@BaurakAle7 Amulek was not being trinitarian. He referenced the one true God. The son is God by the will of the Father as is the Holy Ghost. Amulek is referencing the one true God as Christ did when he said "the only true God" and "my God." Again, Amulek was not being trinitarian.
@BaurakAle7 I don't try to imagine anything about the Trinity. How it's defined changes by who you ask. I've tried to get a strait answer and can't some will define it as modal, others call that a heresy. Why don't you tell me what it means to you and we can go form there. You still won't find it anywhere in the Bible. What you will find is an understanding of God explained in a way more in line with Joseph Smith's definition than anyone else...if you choose to be truthful.
@BaurakAle7 What a tough guy, reading the NT 6 times. I don't read the NT I study it and it is one of the strongest cases for the LDS doctrine there is. Again, you try to make it look like the BOM teaches something other than what Joseph Smith, it doesn't. Either you lack the comprehension or you choose to be deceitful. I think I know which one it is.
@BaurakAle7 "What part of my bringing points of your canon to disprove your false notions do you object to?" You do it out of context and cherry pick you way through our canon to make your point, you don't take it as a full work. You said you were a member for 22yrs, which means you know your being deceptive. Those who aren't familiar with are canon often don't look past your subjective view, which is sad for them..
@BaurakAle7 The trinity states they are not separate beings but of the same substance. The trinity is actually very difficult to understand. God: Father, Son and Holy Ghost are exactly as Joseph Smith stated. As far as this earth is concerned, everything is done by the Father through the Son so many titles are interchangeable. People like you try to point out the BOM teaches all being the same, but it doesn't. It's funny how you get to use the BOM when it suits you.
Hmm. didn't know that paying tithing was such a terrible and onerous thing....perhaps you gentleman should have a quick review of the Bible which teaches us that tithing is encouraged, and even commanded, of ancient followers. But I guess since the LDS are encouraged to pay their tithing negates what is taught in the Bible.
So is permitted to command, and levy consequences for lack of obedience, in Biblical times, but said consequences today are not permitted? I see quite the fallacy in your argument. It's one thing to be anti-Mormon, and I have no issue with that, but to base your argument on something that contravenes the Bible, just doesn't make sense.
@djwright44 Nowhere in the New Testament is tithing taught or encouraged; only mentioned by Jesus in reference to the Pharisees who were under the Mosaic law (Mt. 23:23; Lk. 11:42).
The New Testament teaching is that we can give and should do but of our own free will, not grudgingly or under pressure (2 Cor. 8:5-12, 9:5-13).
@hammerogod And that Jesus I tell you, took fishermen and a tax guy and who knows who else away from their professions, made them follow him for unspeakable amounts of miles, completely overthrew the Jews law, He ticked off the Romans and the Jews, started his OWN church (oh no), not to mention that many of his followers end up getting killed..... It almost sounds like a .....Cult! (If you use the original definition) So I'd say we LDS are in good company with Jesus, wait we've said that already
@hammerogod Had dinner with who? The apostles that's right. He called 12 of them. But according to you he never organized a church. The NT says Jesus married what? His church. The body of that church includes prophets, apostles, pastors, teachers, etc.. Because Jesus "never started a church"? Why bother replacing judas if the positions of the church were not important? I'm sorry but I can't buy what you said based on scripture.
@hammerogod Speaking of threats of he'll - yeah I get that from people like you, the middle man. The guys who broke off from the Catholics after the apostasy that the bible said was going to happen. The ones who say a restoration wasn't needed. The ones who say that I practice a different gospel even though most Christian churches retained fragments of belief from the early catholic church that u supposedly don't agree with. I do agree on 1 thing though. It was his congregation and it still is.
@Dalessiokiller Sorry I have to step in here, Christians are actually a branch of the Jews (Romans 11), two olive trees 1 Isreal (Jews) the other Gentles (Christians). Isaiah 11:1 the rod (Netzer in Hebrew). Christianos (Christ the anointed one or followers of Christ) is Greek for Christians, Netzarim is Hebrew for Christians from the root word Netzer or from the stump of the tree.
I hope this helps clerify where Christians originated.
@Exodus314IAM Absolutely. My M' in law lives me. Goes to a Christian college. We talk about this a lot. I never said that all Christians were wiped out. That would be silly. What I believe is that the organization has been altered beyond belief via persecution. Cool scripture links though, thanks.
@hammerogod The problem is that pattern was not followed. That pattern was interrupted. I mentioned replacing judas. Is it ever recorded replacing the 12 as they were killed off after that? No it isn't. You talk about Catholics then u know they adapted Christ's church. You know that prior they killed the apostles, they killed anyone with authority. The assembly was no longer assembled. 2nd Thessalonians saw that coming. Translate "falling away" back to Greek and you get "apostasia".
Comparing Hitler to Mormonism completely negates the value and position of your argument. I actually encourage you to keep it up though. Rabid anti-mormon comments such as those helps rationale and observant folks see you for what you really are.
@BaurakAle7 I've asked you for sources you have yet to produce so when you're ready so will I. By the way, is that all you have to say about FARMS, name calling. For someone who sees FARMS as less than scholarly, you sure seem childish. I'll get valid resources where ever they are. If you don't like them just because the're from FARMS or FAIR, that's your problem, it doesn't make them any less valid. You name call because you can't refute.
@BaurakAle7 Again, I'm not modifying anything you just seem to have difficulty understanding the nature of God. The three work together as one so His house would also be his fathers house because their purpose is the same and our relationship with God is with Christ and through Christ - I understand how it would be difficult for you to understand. The BOM doesn't espouse monism - looks like your doing the twisting AGAIN. The trinity is non-biblical and beside the initial point.
@BaurakAle7 There is archeological proof of more than one temple around the area of Jerusalem and no where does it say that there will be only one valid temple. Source it! As for that verse being in our cannon, source that also. KJV is the same if LDS or others. If I went and picked up a KJV in Barnes and Nobles, it would be the same as LDS only missing the extra study info. I've been a Mormon for 40+ and It's all valid. Again, source you accusations.
@BaurakAle7 And you complain I don't have context? Matt 12-14 12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
13 And said unto them, It is written, My ahouse shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
14And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.
@BaurakAle7 Believe what you want, it is certainly not sufficient though. So if Christ is the central authority, how do you counter false doctrine without the same leadership in place that he had when he was on the earth. You can say your in the spirit, but so can I and completely contradict you. It is only through the Authority of Christ that consistency is maintained. The Bible says: one Lord, one faith and one baptism. Play with words all you want, but you still deny the truth of Christ.
@BaurakAle7 WHAT??? Lets look at Ephesians for context. How in good conscience can you go to a completely different book to get context on a book that gives itself context. It's very strait forward and the only people warping the scriptures is you to fit your belief system; the creeds of men. It's simple, it states that there must be apostles and prophets in order to keep the believers from being deceived, which they were at the time. As for 1 Cor 14, be specific. Show the difference.
@BaurakAle7 Christ saw the temple as his father's house. In temples we become even more dedicated to the Lord. If you don't care about God, His word through the scriptures and prophets then you certainly have the agency to believe what you will. But if one is truly searching for God, he will forge his own path of understanding without listening to others. Read the Book of Mormon and pray about it honestly and you'll know it's true. Otherwise, good luck. You'll need it.
@BaurakAle7 Not sure what your trying to get at with this except that tired old grace only argument. You left out two important verses:26For ye are all the achildren of God by bfaith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been abaptized into Christ have put on Christ.
This shows that faith alone without works commanded of God by His law, such as Baptism, Is what God asks of us. Grace is what saves us when we show faith by keeping his commandments.
@BaurakAle7 By the way Matthew 16:19 is where Christ give Peter the authority to "...whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" This is the obvious passing of authority which you also deny. At least the Catholic church claims this, you guys don't even care.
@BaurakAle7 This is part of the huge problem with modern protestantism, there is no accountability or central authority so preachers can say what they want. All they have to do is say they know God's will and people will believe them. This is what Paul was worried about in the Galatians reference. The Bible lays out a way to avoid this in Ephesians but everyone ignores it except the LDS church. As for D&C, that's not talking about Hell, only about not being able to live the higher law.
Again and again, Shawn is wrong!!! Listen to this video where Shawn vilifies the priesthood leaders.... oh well what´s new? He takes on the new Instruction Manual and, without reading it, he critics it, based only on hearsay. . . oh well, what´s new? I Sometimes I wonder if Shawn was even a member of the LDS Church or someone told him he was once one:
@alexgomez2: He is talking about a policy of not allowing fathers to convey their priesthood to their own children. All over tithes. Is this the policy or not? What it does or doesn't say any subject is immaterial. The issue is, do you have to be paid up in your tithe to convey this priesthood.
@VictorLepanto - Yes I gather that, but as always, he is spreading half truths as facts and all of his fans believing him as if he were right although he admits that "someone told him and then saying he called on the Priesthood Department. Yet he never read such communications. Who is worse, him for being misinformed, or his fans for taking him at face value?
@alexgomez2: Do you know what TRUTH means? Do you know what HALF means? How does one divide this matter in half? Either: (A) Men who aren't paid up in their tithes are allowed to give this priesthood - or - (B) They are not allowed to do so. Which one is it? That is the only issue that matters in this video. Personal attacks, irrelevancies, sentimentality & subjectivity. These are the typical "arguments" of the LDS apologist. Just answer the real question.
@VictorLepanto - I do know what half truths is: Shawn´s commercial here. I also know that you must be an avid follower of Shawn, I´m not. At least I wish you´d be courageous to admit that you haven´t checked the information he´s providing as completely correct. I konw it´s not complete not accurate. and, if you have any decency, you´ll admit that half triths may be intepreted into a lie. Well, Shawn´s comment here are half truths mingled with misinformation. Keep worshiping Shawn the infallible!
@alexgomez2: Wow! What an equivocal evasion. What a way to master evasion of the truth all the while self righteously accusing others of evading the truth. It is an up-down, true-false question. Can a man (perhaps unemployed & temporarily unable to tithe) who isn't current on his tithe bless his son w/ the Mormon priesthood? True or false? It isn't TRUISH, or FALSISH. Just specify, which one is it? But your evasions show me what the answer is.
@VictorLepanto - Shawn makes unfounded accusations just to stirr up your easey-to-offend mentalities and you guys, as gullible as you are fall for it. The instruction actually says things totally contrary to what Shawn is saying. LOL. Dads who may NOT be considered Temple worthy MAY EVEN bless, use their priesthood AND EVEN confer the priesthood. Now that you know I want to see what you can you say abt Shawn? I guess he called the wrong Priesthood Department. HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO????
@alexgomez2: "The instruction actually says things totally contrary..." Well, just post those quotes. What is the relevant section? What does it (that is to say, not you) say about the matter. I am asking for simple objective information. Shwo what your handbook says & I'll interpret its words for myself. Why does the Mormon find flounder on the issue of objective varifiable truth. I don't care about Shawn, I don't care about your posturing, I WANT FACTS!
@VictorLepanto - I just said what it says. It says that dads who aren't considered Temple worthy may officiate in the priesthood including giving blessings and even ordaining their sons. What do you want me to include page and section? You don't have those bools anyway. What difference does it make?
@alexgomez2: Is that a direct quote? Only a direct quote is what it says. Do you have any references? Also, people here are asserting that different ranks of LDS officials have different manuals. Is this true? How many manuals are there, why & how are they different? Note how I quoted you below. Something like that would be nice. I hope you don't start "bearing me your testimony..." Do you understand I am asking for a fact based, logic based discussion.
(again typical LDS attacks and put down with no proof just how they feel keep looking for these kinds of attacks, along with trying to change the subject. These are the ways they have all been trained and it goes very deep in the LDS teachings aka brainwashing)
Google Lds hand book of instructions and click on the link under lds dot org......it's all there for the world to see, unlike Shawn's lie to the contrary that it's some secret document held by a select few in the church...what more proof do you need of the lies??? As Bauruk as clearly posted below, Bishops (as they have always done) act as judges in Israel.
@djwright44 I did (ldsDOTorg/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church?lang=eng) look under the Priesthood and see what is required to baptise, I also noticed there is not one Biblical referance in this hand book?? Oh Ex. 19:3-5; Jud. 2 out of context as usual. Wake up and smell the coffee (oops sorry) coolaid...hmmm nothing fits here.
@Exodus314IAM - REally? Please provide a reference that talks about using drugs or doing pornography? What about internet and media issues? Please help me find those guidelines using the Bible and please dont give me interpretations, stupid right? That´s exactly what I think of your comment (sorry!). Our instruction manuals as do the laws of countries, as do any serious organization, the LDS Church uses handbooks. So please, give me a break!!
@alexgomez2 1 John 2:16; 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4; Matthew 5:28; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Philippians 4:8; Romans 12:2 The bottom line is Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." Context right?
This is an interesting developement as it is an indication of economic anxiety. They might think that this would pressure people to pay up. I think it will serve more to drive people away. I believe that the LDS has entered into a tipping point moment. Their capacity to expand has hit a brick wall. Now they are dangling like Wiley Coyote in mid air over an abbys.
@BaurakAle7 "I've just proved Mormonism" You've done no such thing. Your Galatians quote is on the head of so-called "traditional" or "Biblical" Christianity. The perversion of the Gospel of Christ was done initially by the Nicene Creed and continues to day with the thousands of Christian denominations. Listen close...the Mormon church more closely follows the doctrines of the New Testament than any other religion. The comparison isn't even close. It's easily refuted.
@BaurakAle7 The traditional Christian offering may seem a free-will offering but if you don't make it you'll go to hell for the supporting the cause. I've listened to way too may preachers to think otherwise.
Your going to have to be more specific with you Celestial marriage thing. The bible tells us that the man is not without the woman in the lord and that with the proper authority, everything bound on earth will be bound in heaven. You obviously don't read the Bible thoroughly.
@BaurakAle7 Nope, neither the ward clerk, Bishop or anyone else know exactly what I earn. I hold a temple recommend and have been to many tithing settlements.
Nothing secret - sounds good. If your not worthy (including tithing) then you shouldn't. be able to do it. Also know one knows how much tithing you should or do pay except yourself. Too many people think they can live their lives how ever they want and then participate in these ordinances. If you don't pay an honest tithe, then it won't likely mean much. BTW - no one guilts people better into "paying the Lord" than Christian preachers who tell everyone they are going to Hell.
I've told members repeatedly that Joseph Smiths salvation and eternal life will cost them alot of money. They seem to enjoy feeding the corporate tax free beast. What they don't realize is the beast will turn on them if they fail to PAY and OBEY their masters.
@carcabe Mormons do a tithing settlement each year with their bishops. Where each member goes in and sits down with their bishop and he shows them what he shows they have paid in for the year for tithing, and he asks them if this is an honest tithe on the money they have made for the year. If they say yes it is an honest tithe, then they are considered full tithe payers.
Respond to this video... I'm not sure where this has come from but in all my 30 years as an adult and with my dad being in multiple bishoprics, it has never been asked or required to submit a tax return. By the way, my dad is a tax accountant and he has never heard of this either. Funny how lies and rumors take on a life unto themselves.
i betcha that's going to lead to a mass exodus from the church. All those jack mormons who stay in for the culture will find themselves rejected by the culture, and will decide to leave the church.
@FillTheirVoid So traditional Christianity is a cult? They are always begging for money to save yourself from hell. And many of the preachers seem to have many girlfriends yet still conduct ministries ie: Jim Bakker. Every time I see his ministry on TV when I'm flipping through traditional Christian channels, I stop, watch for a bit and then laugh. One day you'll see that Christ's authority was restored through Joseph Smith, and then you'll panic for your ridiculous criticisms.
if you are a believer Christ, you should not condemed people or any organization that make the world confuse. Let me ask you a question, what do you do to make people as a better person they can be? What gospel you teach to the people so that they can have a better life.
aries1976able 3 weeks ago
Mormons are not evil. They are however a controlling people. In any event how could I any longer follow a church that was created by a man, Joseph Smith, who was shot in the back and himself shot 2 people, and his last cry was not an outcry for God or Jesus. He cried out for a Mason to help him.
Zahav007 1 month ago
Spin it Shawn spin it!
scottwins2 1 month ago
I think that is great. It doesn't have to do with tithing but good try. There is a lot more to a temple recommend then tithing and I see the wisdom in them doing this.
peaceliberty4all 7 months ago
" Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
airsharp001 9 months ago
I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy. Thomas Monson isn't worthy either.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap your ass isnt worthy of any thing. soo your text isnt any thing to read by others
nintendoseagaill 11 months ago
@nintendoseagaill I am required to tell you the truth, flatlander.
awolLDSasap 11 months ago
@awolLDSasap you dont know any thing
nintendoseagaill 11 months ago
@nintendoseagaill I don't know any-thing, "Nintendoseagaill"? Run along, Mario is calling.
awolLDSasap 11 months ago
@awolLDSasap you make a hobo sick and a dog vomite
nintendoseagaill 11 months ago
@nintendoseagaill well poopoo on you too. Let me help... Lucifer is not Satan. In the Bible, Lucifer is an unknown, "probably future Babylonian king" who would fall from heaven like Satan did. Biblically, Satan fell from heaven after seeking to become a God. So, the Mormon Jesus is a spirit brother of a Babylonian king named lucifer. More information....The 2 sticks mentioned in Ezekiel are NOT the Bookofmormon and the Bible. The 2 sticks are the 2 tribes of Israel. See the light? Find Jesus.
awolLDSasap 11 months ago
@awolLDSasap shur. and the cathlic jesus is the cousin of the babylonian king. and the christian jesus is the step father of the babylonian king. should i go on ?? any way, lern more about the church before doing your own statements and other un true things.
nintendoseagaill 11 months ago
@nintendoseagaill after 40 plus years in the church, I done lerned everything I needed to know about Mormonism. I found evidence of Joseph lying to control people. Like stocking a person, Joseph schmoozed and then threatened teenage girls, other mens wives, mothers and daughters and sisters to marry him and then he bedded them. Fact... Joseph never saw God. He never met Peter James and John. A cult tactic requires the members to repeat, "I know it's true". In reality, It's not true.
awolLDSasap 10 months ago
@awolLDSasap you found evidence yet you dont show them. but o well we have the right to choose any religion. but you dont have the right to say false things about them
nintendoseagaill 10 months ago
@nintendoseagaill Joseph married and bedded other women. Joseph lied to Emma and the congregation about his extra wives. No evidence for ancient Israelites in the Americas. There were no horses, chariots, steel swords or elephants during 400 BC Americas. Joseph fibbed. Mormonism is void of evidence. Repeating "I know the church is true" will never make it true. A church cannot save you. The eternal uncreated God, "Jesus Christ" is the only door to salvation. These are facts you can bank on.
awolLDSasap 10 months ago
@awolLDSasap nope non of that is even close to true. i mean i know people ho hate are going to make false storys of facts that dont even make sence(like what happend to MJ) who can maintain so many women of thay are having troble with one.jesus will come one day and if you are not preapaird well....lets just say asking for forgivness in the last min wont help
nintendoseagaill 10 months ago
@awolLDSasap You accuse but with no facts. The only fact here is that you are a liar. You have no proof that he didn't see God, are you willing to die for that testimony? Joseph and his Brother did die for there testimony as well as many others. Peter would be a good one to mention for he died for his testimony gave it up once but stood for it in the end with his blood yet there were still naysayers like you..
scottwins2 1 month ago
@scottwins2 True faith consists of substance and evidence. Mormonism lacks evidence. Joseph never saw God. He created a Jesus who was the spirit brother of "lucifer, a Babylonian king". So Joseph and Hyrum died for a testimony of spirit brother Jesus? That is a false Christ. We have been warned about false prophets bringing false Christs.
awolLDSasap 1 month ago
@awolLDSasap We have The Book of Mormon, Three witnesses to it and then Eight more witnesses to it and the we have prayer, together we know.
scottwins2 1 month ago
@scottwins2 Christians cannot accept Josephs doctrines of merited salvation & exaltion. These are opposed to the Word and deny the power of God which is grace. The Word is the fulfillment of prophecy. He is the good news, the way, the truth and life.
awolLDSasap 1 month ago
@awolLDSasap If I were a so called Christian all I would have to do is sit back do anything I want put my hands on the TV or Radio say I believe praise Jesus Grace says me! Why if I believed in that and it were tru? The bible would be but a pamphlet. Leaving out All the commandments, the 10 and the New, as well as works since faith is no good without it...... etc Sorry your God of Neo Platoism is Platos fantasy.
scottwins2 1 month ago
@scottwins2 Put your hands on the tv and praise Jesus? Have you read Romans? Temple ordinance and baptizing the dead is legalism, and Christs sacrifice wasn't sufficient. The Bible would be a pamphlet? The Jews failed, what makes you think Mormons obey the law? If there was a law that could save men, Christ died in vain. "In Christ" we are led unto good works. By grace through faith we are saved, not of works, lest any man should boast. Don't be sorry. Platoism is myopic apologetics.
awolLDSasap 1 month ago
@awolLDSasap As I said before your view the bible as a pamphelt letting your self of on Grace only. Makes religion too easy. At Christs whim absurd. He gave us laws to learn obdience and expects us to be perfect in them. "Be ye perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." Note: Christ is refering to his Father in Heaven, showing Christ and the Father are seperate and distinct from each other. Go ahead and have your last say we have gotten into this before and you are bias in everyway.
scottwins2 1 month ago
@scottwins2 you're a poet and didn't know it.
awolLDSasap 1 month ago
How mean. If someone's wondering why LDS and exLDS men tend to go through periods of depression and losing or questionin their faith, this sounds like it could be yet another reason, (as if they needed more).
EmBeesWeb 1 year ago
Bottom line for Exodus and every Shawn fan then? Do you condone Shawn using exaggerations and half truths? It's OK then? Meaning, your animosity against the LDS Church and its members is such that it doesn't matter what mean lies Shawn will spread? Anybody ready to admit your "Christian" love?
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 - If you didn´t know it, I´m taking about Shawn. When you ask a question like that, are you joking of don´t know how to read? Please answer! Thanks for the clarification.
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 - My friend, don´t patronize Shawn. He´s not a baby to get "confused." He does what he does with the deverered purpose of spreading lies and half truths. I´m in the process of reviewing EVERY video to point out to his innaccuracies and believe me, it´s going to be naughty not because I have any interest to attack him personally but to show he has little credibility based on the "facts" he presents. Buckle up my friends. Again, critic my faith, but don´t define it with falsehoods!
alexgomez2 1 year ago
Yes, yes! Why does the LDS Church have a "secretive" manual? SECRET'??? The last time I heard a secret known by two or more is no longer a secret. Check the statistics of the Church and this tells me that at least 86,304 people worldwide have these manuals. So much for your secret. LOL!! You guys crack me up!! What about the Jimmy Swaggarts, the Robert Schullers even insignificant ones like Shawn, they have proceedures that aren´t public. Your job have private proceedures. So WHAT??? Secret!!!!!
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7
Actually you don't know Shawn very well.....former Bishop!!
djwright44 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Everything Shawn talks about is the issue regarding priesthood holders.....that is entirely open sourced in Handbook 2 and you know it. There is nothing secretive or hidden there and you know it.
djwright44 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7
Then why all the confusion amongst the many, many Christian churches? Is God the author of said confusion? They all follow the Bible and they all quote the Bible to "prove" their positions.....are they all correct? Are they all wrong???
djwright44 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7
Verbatim quotes??? Isn't, as all knowing Shawn states, the LDS Handbook held by only a select few??? Hmmm, perhaps you'd like to rethink the statement that the document is secretive? Funny how no one has responded to that yet.
Anyways, all of your posts prove Shawn is lieing: worthy priesthood holders may participate in priesthood ordinances.
djwright44 1 year ago
I love how Shawn also lies at the very start....he states the Church Handbook is secretly kept by Church leaders: It's publicly posted on lds dot org for the entire world to see and review!!! I have no problem that Shawn preaches against the LDS church and modern prophets....his freedom of choice trumps everything, however, blatant lies just goes to show what an absolute scum bag he really is.
djwright44 1 year ago
Go to the source....Shawn, as usual, deflects the whole story...
As guided by the Spirit and the instructions in the next paragraph, bishops and stake presidents have discretion to allow priesthood holders who are not fully temple worthy to perform or participate in some ordinances and blessings.
This is simply teaching that a man should be worthy....something despised by Shawn evidently
djwright44 1 year ago
@djwright44 Amen
Dalessiokiller 1 year ago
@djwright44 Sounds Great, "Be worthy" so when can you "become" worthy according to God? Under Gods Laws when can any of us be "worthy"? We can never we worth according to God unless we are "Followers of Jesus" read Ephesians 4:1-16 and see what Paul say about being worthy, read it in context, are you a "prisoner of the Lord"? do you know what it is to be a prisoner?
Do you read tith or baptism in what Paul wrote here?
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
Once again to everybody´s knowledge, Shawn didnot check his facts. I love Shawn because as I´ve said before, he is the only Evangelical Anti-Mormon who will go on TV to spread false information, making a fool of himself. But... I don´t blame him but those who fall for his half truths. The Manual actually says that Dads who may not be temple worthy MAY bless their children, confer the priesthood and participate. What number did you call Shawn? Well.... it was the wrong number LOL!!!!! Anyone???
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@alexgomez2 So you attack and belittle tha accuse with no bases? You say Shawn spreads false information then say he has half truths? is it false or half truths, what is false and half truth? You have not given anything to justify your judgment on? I belive Shawn is 100% accurate but you do not want to believe it. Or you would be showing us how Shawn was wrong. When a Mormon tried to show us we prove them wrong, they just call names "anti-mormon" and "say" it is wrong with no proof.
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
@Exodus314IAM
I posted, word for word, below the exact instructions.....priesthood holding men without temple recommends are permitted to perform ordinances. We are not "attacking" without basis.....Shawn is, again, off his rocker. A half-truth...a lie....not telling the whole the story...Shawn is guilty of all of them......as usual.
djwright44 1 year ago
@djwright44 the Aaronic priesthood was limited to Jewish male members from the tribe of Levi who were descendents from Aaron (Ex. 28:1; Num. 3:5-13; Heb. 7:5). The priesthood was inherited by descent from Aaron, not received through ordination. It was never supposed to be practiced by Gentiles (non-Jews). There is absolutely no teaching about this doctrine of Aaronic priesthood being practiced by Gentiles in the Old or New Testaments.
I can go on... The Melchizedek Priesthood.
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
There is absolutely no mention in the entire Bible about a special class of Melchizedek priests. Melchizedek is mentioned briefly in the Old Testament in two places (Gen. 14:18-20 and Ps. 110:1). In Genesis 14, Melchizedek is a king and priest who blesses Abraham and to whom Abraham gives tithes. Psalm 110, a royal Messianic Psalm, applies this priesthood of Melchizedek to Jesus who is also a priest and king (Matt. 22:44; 26:64; Mark 16:19; Heb. 5:5-6) which is another subject.
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
The bottome line is the Bible teaches that all believers have priesthood authority (1 Peter 2:5, 9; Rev. 1:6; 5:10; 20:6). Even in the Old Testament, the nation of Israel was to be a kingdom of priests (Ex. 19:5-6). However, Jesus is the unique High Priest (Heb. 7:23-8:13). Each believer has the authority to preach the Gospel, baptize, and govern the kingdom of God on this earth.
I hope this helps, unless this also is just "half truths"??
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
@Exodus314IAM There were many things that non Jews were excluded from. Gentiles were " dogs" if I remember correctly. However ,after some arguments, Gentiles were allowed to be baptized and participate in christs church. That boundary was broken. So they can now become teachers, deacons, etc. The keys given to Peter would have included priesthood authority. The Melchizedek priesthood was described as the Priest after the power of the most high "Christ" so if gave that authority to others.......
Dalessiokiller 1 year ago
@Exodus314IAM ..ran out of room, then it would continue don't you think? I appreciate your knowledge of the scripture and would like your thoughts. Thanks.
Dalessiokiller 1 year ago
@Exodus314IAM - Listen, you continue loving your lier friend. If he´s willing to lie and exaggerate to make more friends like you that´s your problems and his problem. But as long as I won´t allow him to continue with his campaign of missinformtion and be iddlle because that would make me part of his lies. We LDS people welcome dialogue and even critic but I personally won´t allow him to continue defining my faith in front of gullible and ignorant people who don´t check his facts. No way!!
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@alexgomez2 I think the problem is not me or others who agree with what Shawn puts out but the problem is thoughs who are lost and being tricked by a false Jesus (brother of satan) and a false idea that there is something they can "do" to "earn" thier salvation on thier own? Mormonism is a tool used by satan to separate good faithful people from God and eternity.
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 I don't just read anything, I read everything in context and I still stand by my point that the Mormon church more closely follows the doctrines in the New Testament than any other organized religion.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Are you normally this condescending? I don't know if you listen to CSN radio or not but I try to listen to them as much as I can. One specific challenge was to read 20 versus before and after a particular verse to acheive context. I did just that with 1 Cor 15:29 because that day they talked about the "false" practice of baptism for the dead. By doing that I saw that Paul was talking about the problems they were having with resurrection and how Botd supported his argument.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Try giving me what you do believe. I'm sure the ani-Mormon literature you seem to have so handy would also tell you that Joseph had different contradicting accounts. If you look closely, they don't contradict. Some accounts may have left some stuff out but that's it. It's actually extremely close to Paul's different accounts of his vision of the Savior.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Again, be more specific in your definition of the Trinity because Amulek did not believe in the trinity as defined by the Christian creeds. That particular exchange was an interrogation by Zeezron, not a little sit down teaching environment so Amulek was very guarded in his comments.
Again, you need to be more specific with the differences between McConkie and the prophet because there is quite a bit said between the two. Still, nothing like the Christian definition.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Your second point amazes me . Mor 8:32 is actually very specific to a particular denomination. As for D&C, have you forgotten about what will happen when the Lord returns. Obedience to the law of tithing is living a higher law. You have to live the higher law in order to tolerate the events immediately before the ushering in of the millennium. Those not living the higher law will be swept off the earth with fire. No sin forgiveness for money is even mentioned.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Amulek was not being trinitarian. He referenced the one true God. The son is God by the will of the Father as is the Holy Ghost. Amulek is referencing the one true God as Christ did when he said "the only true God" and "my God." Again, Amulek was not being trinitarian.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 I don't try to imagine anything about the Trinity. How it's defined changes by who you ask. I've tried to get a strait answer and can't some will define it as modal, others call that a heresy. Why don't you tell me what it means to you and we can go form there. You still won't find it anywhere in the Bible. What you will find is an understanding of God explained in a way more in line with Joseph Smith's definition than anyone else...if you choose to be truthful.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 What a tough guy, reading the NT 6 times. I don't read the NT I study it and it is one of the strongest cases for the LDS doctrine there is. Again, you try to make it look like the BOM teaches something other than what Joseph Smith, it doesn't. Either you lack the comprehension or you choose to be deceitful. I think I know which one it is.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 "What part of my bringing points of your canon to disprove your false notions do you object to?" You do it out of context and cherry pick you way through our canon to make your point, you don't take it as a full work. You said you were a member for 22yrs, which means you know your being deceptive. Those who aren't familiar with are canon often don't look past your subjective view, which is sad for them..
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 The trinity states they are not separate beings but of the same substance. The trinity is actually very difficult to understand. God: Father, Son and Holy Ghost are exactly as Joseph Smith stated. As far as this earth is concerned, everything is done by the Father through the Son so many titles are interchangeable. People like you try to point out the BOM teaches all being the same, but it doesn't. It's funny how you get to use the BOM when it suits you.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
Hmm. didn't know that paying tithing was such a terrible and onerous thing....perhaps you gentleman should have a quick review of the Bible which teaches us that tithing is encouraged, and even commanded, of ancient followers. But I guess since the LDS are encouraged to pay their tithing negates what is taught in the Bible.
djwright44 1 year ago
@djwright44
Tithing is DEMANDED in Malachi and common in most Protestant Denominations.
Malachi 3:10
"Bring you all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house"
It was intended to feed the poor and needy, not to build million dollar temples.
But that begs the issue.
The LDS are asking Fathers to give up a Sacred Right based on money.
It's simple extortion.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod
So is permitted to command, and levy consequences for lack of obedience, in Biblical times, but said consequences today are not permitted? I see quite the fallacy in your argument. It's one thing to be anti-Mormon, and I have no issue with that, but to base your argument on something that contravenes the Bible, just doesn't make sense.
djwright44 1 year ago
@djwright44 Nowhere in the New Testament is tithing taught or encouraged; only mentioned by Jesus in reference to the Pharisees who were under the Mosaic law (Mt. 23:23; Lk. 11:42).
The New Testament teaching is that we can give and should do but of our own free will, not grudgingly or under pressure (2 Cor. 8:5-12, 9:5-13).
Giving is under grace not under law.
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
@Exodus314IAM
Thank goodness for modern day revelation which proves that God still love us and wants to provide direction and insight!
djwright44 1 year ago
@djwright44 *Thank goodness for modern day revelation which proves that God still love us and wants to provide direction and insight!*
John 14:26--the role that you say your prophet fills has been outsourced. Rebirth and personal direction proves that God loves us.
BaurakAle7 1 year ago
With the simple stroke of a pen the 'Church' takes more control.
All cults that have ever existed made it a part of the 'Process' to remove as much family influence as possible.
All lunatics from Xerxes to Manson have used this tactic.
The Spartans took the sons away from the families.
Hitler created the Der Hitler Jugend.
Jim Jones moved his followers to Guyana.
Marshall Applewhite created Heaven's Gate.
All done to begin the isolation of people from the family and rationality.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod And that Jesus I tell you, took fishermen and a tax guy and who knows who else away from their professions, made them follow him for unspeakable amounts of miles, completely overthrew the Jews law, He ticked off the Romans and the Jews, started his OWN church (oh no), not to mention that many of his followers end up getting killed..... It almost sounds like a .....Cult! (If you use the original definition) So I'd say we LDS are in good company with Jesus, wait we've said that already
Dalessiokiller 1 year ago
@Dalessiokiller
Heh...
Yeah, except that Jesus often had dinner with the families of the Apostles.
He quit frequently ate and stayed with various disciples and their families.
With the possible exclusion of Matthew the Fishermen stayed Fishermen.
He did walk a lot but never far from the beautiful Galilee region.
He ticked off the Romans because they were foreign invaders and occupiers
He ticked off the Jewish leadership because they were a bunch of crooks.
And Jesus never started a Church.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod Had dinner with who? The apostles that's right. He called 12 of them. But according to you he never organized a church. The NT says Jesus married what? His church. The body of that church includes prophets, apostles, pastors, teachers, etc.. Because Jesus "never started a church"? Why bother replacing judas if the positions of the church were not important? I'm sorry but I can't buy what you said based on scripture.
Dalessiokiller 1 year ago
@Dalessiokiller
Christ established a core group and assigned each man a ministry.
Succeeding generations followed that pattern, as per Biblical instructions (Ephesians 4:11)
Then Joseph came along and claimed to have 'Restored" that ministerial structure when in reality it had existed unchanged since Christ established it.
"Church" (ἐκκλησία in the original Greek) means "Assembly".
Christ established a relationship and called men to assemble in His name.
hammerogod 1 year ago
ἐκκλησία κυριακή - ekklēsia kuriakē or "congregation of the Lord" is what Jesus established.
Not some power hungry mega-organization that uses extortion or threats of hell to get people to do what it wants.
I am speaking directly to the LDS and Catholics.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod Speaking of threats of he'll - yeah I get that from people like you, the middle man. The guys who broke off from the Catholics after the apostasy that the bible said was going to happen. The ones who say a restoration wasn't needed. The ones who say that I practice a different gospel even though most Christian churches retained fragments of belief from the early catholic church that u supposedly don't agree with. I do agree on 1 thing though. It was his congregation and it still is.
Dalessiokiller 1 year ago
@Dalessiokiller Sorry I have to step in here, Christians are actually a branch of the Jews (Romans 11), two olive trees 1 Isreal (Jews) the other Gentles (Christians). Isaiah 11:1 the rod (Netzer in Hebrew). Christianos (Christ the anointed one or followers of Christ) is Greek for Christians, Netzarim is Hebrew for Christians from the root word Netzer or from the stump of the tree.
I hope this helps clerify where Christians originated.
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
@Exodus314IAM Absolutely. My M' in law lives me. Goes to a Christian college. We talk about this a lot. I never said that all Christians were wiped out. That would be silly. What I believe is that the organization has been altered beyond belief via persecution. Cool scripture links though, thanks.
Dalessiokiller 1 year ago
@hammerogod The problem is that pattern was not followed. That pattern was interrupted. I mentioned replacing judas. Is it ever recorded replacing the 12 as they were killed off after that? No it isn't. You talk about Catholics then u know they adapted Christ's church. You know that prior they killed the apostles, they killed anyone with authority. The assembly was no longer assembled. 2nd Thessalonians saw that coming. Translate "falling away" back to Greek and you get "apostasia".
Dalessiokiller 1 year ago
@Dalessiokiller
Well.......
If the LDS has to resort to extortion to keep people in line I think you would be in better company with Enron or the Mafia.
All I want is for your false prophet to be exposed and your leadership to tell the truth.
Even your own LDS Scholars are saying that the BoM is full of critical flaws.
Only the small group of pseudo-scholars at FARMS still cling to Joseph's story of the relationship of the Lamanites to the American Indians.
All other resources say no.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod
Wow....the good old Hitler comparison. Sheer genius of you
djwright44 1 year ago
@djwright44
Yeah...I know.
But it fits.
When evil follows a pattern it is necessary to track that pattern to the cause.
Mentioning Hitler does not negate the validity of the argument.
It was not my first choice for a comparison but it is a telling fact none the less.
Nobody wants to be compared to Hitler...but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck........etc.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod
Comparing Hitler to Mormonism completely negates the value and position of your argument. I actually encourage you to keep it up though. Rabid anti-mormon comments such as those helps rationale and observant folks see you for what you really are.
djwright44 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 I've asked you for sources you have yet to produce so when you're ready so will I. By the way, is that all you have to say about FARMS, name calling. For someone who sees FARMS as less than scholarly, you sure seem childish. I'll get valid resources where ever they are. If you don't like them just because the're from FARMS or FAIR, that's your problem, it doesn't make them any less valid. You name call because you can't refute.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Again, I'm not modifying anything you just seem to have difficulty understanding the nature of God. The three work together as one so His house would also be his fathers house because their purpose is the same and our relationship with God is with Christ and through Christ - I understand how it would be difficult for you to understand. The BOM doesn't espouse monism - looks like your doing the twisting AGAIN. The trinity is non-biblical and beside the initial point.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 There is archeological proof of more than one temple around the area of Jerusalem and no where does it say that there will be only one valid temple. Source it! As for that verse being in our cannon, source that also. KJV is the same if LDS or others. If I went and picked up a KJV in Barnes and Nobles, it would be the same as LDS only missing the extra study info. I've been a Mormon for 40+ and It's all valid. Again, source you accusations.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 And you complain I don't have context? Matt 12-14 12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
13 And said unto them, It is written, My ahouse shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
14And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.
It was the temple of God but had been defiled.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Believe what you want, it is certainly not sufficient though. So if Christ is the central authority, how do you counter false doctrine without the same leadership in place that he had when he was on the earth. You can say your in the spirit, but so can I and completely contradict you. It is only through the Authority of Christ that consistency is maintained. The Bible says: one Lord, one faith and one baptism. Play with words all you want, but you still deny the truth of Christ.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 WHAT??? Lets look at Ephesians for context. How in good conscience can you go to a completely different book to get context on a book that gives itself context. It's very strait forward and the only people warping the scriptures is you to fit your belief system; the creeds of men. It's simple, it states that there must be apostles and prophets in order to keep the believers from being deceived, which they were at the time. As for 1 Cor 14, be specific. Show the difference.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Christ saw the temple as his father's house. In temples we become even more dedicated to the Lord. If you don't care about God, His word through the scriptures and prophets then you certainly have the agency to believe what you will. But if one is truly searching for God, he will forge his own path of understanding without listening to others. Read the Book of Mormon and pray about it honestly and you'll know it's true. Otherwise, good luck. You'll need it.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Not sure what your trying to get at with this except that tired old grace only argument. You left out two important verses:26For ye are all the achildren of God by bfaith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been abaptized into Christ have put on Christ.
This shows that faith alone without works commanded of God by His law, such as Baptism, Is what God asks of us. Grace is what saves us when we show faith by keeping his commandments.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 By the way Matthew 16:19 is where Christ give Peter the authority to "...whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" This is the obvious passing of authority which you also deny. At least the Catholic church claims this, you guys don't even care.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 This is part of the huge problem with modern protestantism, there is no accountability or central authority so preachers can say what they want. All they have to do is say they know God's will and people will believe them. This is what Paul was worried about in the Galatians reference. The Bible lays out a way to avoid this in Ephesians but everyone ignores it except the LDS church. As for D&C, that's not talking about Hell, only about not being able to live the higher law.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
Again and again, Shawn is wrong!!! Listen to this video where Shawn vilifies the priesthood leaders.... oh well what´s new? He takes on the new Instruction Manual and, without reading it, he critics it, based only on hearsay. . . oh well, what´s new? I Sometimes I wonder if Shawn was even a member of the LDS Church or someone told him he was once one:
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@alexgomez2: He is talking about a policy of not allowing fathers to convey their priesthood to their own children. All over tithes. Is this the policy or not? What it does or doesn't say any subject is immaterial. The issue is, do you have to be paid up in your tithe to convey this priesthood.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto - Yes I gather that, but as always, he is spreading half truths as facts and all of his fans believing him as if he were right although he admits that "someone told him and then saying he called on the Priesthood Department. Yet he never read such communications. Who is worse, him for being misinformed, or his fans for taking him at face value?
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@alexgomez2: Do you know what TRUTH means? Do you know what HALF means? How does one divide this matter in half? Either: (A) Men who aren't paid up in their tithes are allowed to give this priesthood - or - (B) They are not allowed to do so. Which one is it? That is the only issue that matters in this video. Personal attacks, irrelevancies, sentimentality & subjectivity. These are the typical "arguments" of the LDS apologist. Just answer the real question.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto - I do know what half truths is: Shawn´s commercial here. I also know that you must be an avid follower of Shawn, I´m not. At least I wish you´d be courageous to admit that you haven´t checked the information he´s providing as completely correct. I konw it´s not complete not accurate. and, if you have any decency, you´ll admit that half triths may be intepreted into a lie. Well, Shawn´s comment here are half truths mingled with misinformation. Keep worshiping Shawn the infallible!
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@alexgomez2: Wow! What an equivocal evasion. What a way to master evasion of the truth all the while self righteously accusing others of evading the truth. It is an up-down, true-false question. Can a man (perhaps unemployed & temporarily unable to tithe) who isn't current on his tithe bless his son w/ the Mormon priesthood? True or false? It isn't TRUISH, or FALSISH. Just specify, which one is it? But your evasions show me what the answer is.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto - Shawn makes unfounded accusations just to stirr up your easey-to-offend mentalities and you guys, as gullible as you are fall for it. The instruction actually says things totally contrary to what Shawn is saying. LOL. Dads who may NOT be considered Temple worthy MAY EVEN bless, use their priesthood AND EVEN confer the priesthood. Now that you know I want to see what you can you say abt Shawn? I guess he called the wrong Priesthood Department. HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO????
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@alexgomez2: "The instruction actually says things totally contrary..." Well, just post those quotes. What is the relevant section? What does it (that is to say, not you) say about the matter. I am asking for simple objective information. Shwo what your handbook says & I'll interpret its words for myself. Why does the Mormon find flounder on the issue of objective varifiable truth. I don't care about Shawn, I don't care about your posturing, I WANT FACTS!
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto - I just said what it says. It says that dads who aren't considered Temple worthy may officiate in the priesthood including giving blessings and even ordaining their sons. What do you want me to include page and section? You don't have those bools anyway. What difference does it make?
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@alexgomez2: Is that a direct quote? Only a direct quote is what it says. Do you have any references? Also, people here are asserting that different ranks of LDS officials have different manuals. Is this true? How many manuals are there, why & how are they different? Note how I quoted you below. Something like that would be nice. I hope you don't start "bearing me your testimony..." Do you understand I am asking for a fact based, logic based discussion.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
(again typical LDS attacks and put down with no proof just how they feel keep looking for these kinds of attacks, along with trying to change the subject. These are the ways they have all been trained and it goes very deep in the LDS teachings aka brainwashing)
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
@Exodus314IAM
Google Lds hand book of instructions and click on the link under lds dot org......it's all there for the world to see, unlike Shawn's lie to the contrary that it's some secret document held by a select few in the church...what more proof do you need of the lies??? As Bauruk as clearly posted below, Bishops (as they have always done) act as judges in Israel.
djwright44 1 year ago
@djwright44 I did (ldsDOTorg/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church?lang=eng) look under the Priesthood and see what is required to baptise, I also noticed there is not one Biblical referance in this hand book?? Oh Ex. 19:3-5; Jud. 2 out of context as usual. Wake up and smell the coffee (oops sorry) coolaid...hmmm nothing fits here.
Trust God and trust the Bible alone.
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
@Exodus314IAM - REally? Please provide a reference that talks about using drugs or doing pornography? What about internet and media issues? Please help me find those guidelines using the Bible and please dont give me interpretations, stupid right? That´s exactly what I think of your comment (sorry!). Our instruction manuals as do the laws of countries, as do any serious organization, the LDS Church uses handbooks. So please, give me a break!!
alexgomez2 1 year ago
@alexgomez2 1 John 2:16; 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4; Matthew 5:28; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Philippians 4:8; Romans 12:2 The bottom line is Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." Context right?
Exodus314IAM 1 year ago
@Exodus314IAM 21.1.7 and 17.1.1 references using the entire Holy Bible as scripture. Got it covered, apparently.
vendingdude1111 10 months ago
This is an interesting developement as it is an indication of economic anxiety. They might think that this would pressure people to pay up. I think it will serve more to drive people away. I believe that the LDS has entered into a tipping point moment. Their capacity to expand has hit a brick wall. Now they are dangling like Wiley Coyote in mid air over an abbys.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto - Oh yeah! The Church muct be heading to bankrupcy!!! LOL, you´re funny!
alexgomez2 1 year ago
Wow, the Mormon church really knows how to be efficient.
Glorthac 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 "I've just proved Mormonism" You've done no such thing. Your Galatians quote is on the head of so-called "traditional" or "Biblical" Christianity. The perversion of the Gospel of Christ was done initially by the Nicene Creed and continues to day with the thousands of Christian denominations. Listen close...the Mormon church more closely follows the doctrines of the New Testament than any other religion. The comparison isn't even close. It's easily refuted.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 The traditional Christian offering may seem a free-will offering but if you don't make it you'll go to hell for the supporting the cause. I've listened to way too may preachers to think otherwise.
Your going to have to be more specific with you Celestial marriage thing. The bible tells us that the man is not without the woman in the lord and that with the proper authority, everything bound on earth will be bound in heaven. You obviously don't read the Bible thoroughly.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Nope, neither the ward clerk, Bishop or anyone else know exactly what I earn. I hold a temple recommend and have been to many tithing settlements.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
Nothing secret - sounds good. If your not worthy (including tithing) then you shouldn't. be able to do it. Also know one knows how much tithing you should or do pay except yourself. Too many people think they can live their lives how ever they want and then participate in these ordinances. If you don't pay an honest tithe, then it won't likely mean much. BTW - no one guilts people better into "paying the Lord" than Christian preachers who tell everyone they are going to Hell.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
I've told members repeatedly that Joseph Smiths salvation and eternal life will cost them alot of money. They seem to enjoy feeding the corporate tax free beast. What they don't realize is the beast will turn on them if they fail to PAY and OBEY their masters.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
How do the Mormons determine whether a member pays their full tithe? Do they require members to submit tax returns?
carcabe 1 year ago
@carcabe lol i think they should set up ICRS (Internal church revenue service)....
coleyman201 1 year ago
@carcabe Mormons do a tithing settlement each year with their bishops. Where each member goes in and sits down with their bishop and he shows them what he shows they have paid in for the year for tithing, and he asks them if this is an honest tithe on the money they have made for the year. If they say yes it is an honest tithe, then they are considered full tithe payers.
carterfamily8903 1 year ago
@carterfamily8903 Thanks for the explanation.
carcabe 1 year ago
Respond to this video... I'm not sure where this has come from but in all my 30 years as an adult and with my dad being in multiple bishoprics, it has never been asked or required to submit a tax return. By the way, my dad is a tax accountant and he has never heard of this either. Funny how lies and rumors take on a life unto themselves.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
i betcha that's going to lead to a mass exodus from the church. All those jack mormons who stay in for the culture will find themselves rejected by the culture, and will decide to leave the church.
Fil0girl 1 year ago
It seems that all cults revolve two things : money, and lots of women.
FillTheirVoid 1 year ago
@FillTheirVoid So traditional Christianity is a cult? They are always begging for money to save yourself from hell. And many of the preachers seem to have many girlfriends yet still conduct ministries ie: Jim Bakker. Every time I see his ministry on TV when I'm flipping through traditional Christian channels, I stop, watch for a bit and then laugh. One day you'll see that Christ's authority was restored through Joseph Smith, and then you'll panic for your ridiculous criticisms.
jmhatutube 1 year ago
@jmhatutube
Those individuals on television are jude 3 heretics.
joseph smith is in hell.
FillTheirVoid 1 year ago
@FillTheirVoid Prove it!!!
jmhatutube 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jmhatutube
Galatians 1:8 Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Accursedness doesn't imply redemption from sin, but rather damnation.
FillTheirVoid 1 year ago