Man investigates the ethical implications of charitable giving

[kaberg92]

I doubt humans will be able to change in time, The hope I have left is in new scientific advances that may enable us humans to keep living like parasites.

[MartijndeGraaf1001]

it' a good coffee karma, lol

we need stronger and stronger excuses to keep on consuming since we are more and more aware of the disasters we cause with it.

what's the solution?

[Patym14]

@MartijndeGraaf1001 exactly, I agree

and I have no idea what the solution is …yet mm

[MartijndeGraaf1001]

@Patym14 stopping consumption obviously, only take what we need instead of everything we like. The starting point of capitalism to be able to buy whatever you want whenever you want and as much as you want is utopia, earth doesn't provide for thisattitude. Back to basics because we havent met the basic needs of life for half the world population. A new economic system based on a changed human nature: no longer selfish interest but what's best for all?

[Katharsis540]

any1 here heard of RBE(Resource Based Economy)?

[niknak791]

I think that hunger is a great motivational force. If people are forced to work for their food they will work. If they are too lazy to work then they starve. We have moved away from "Survival of the Fittest" and have adopted the attitude of "Survival of All, despite what is best for the greater good"

[MartijndeGraaf1001]

@niknak791 you're promoting fear of survival. Very dangerous idea, look what people are doing atm out of fear of survival: they destroy everything to make money. Animals, plants, trees, oceans, landscapes even their own bodies, working to many hours, too stressful jobs.

[kiddr01]

I’m not sure I am, and I just watched the video again in case is was. What you’re suggesting is what I was hoping the video was going to be about – corporate abuse of charitable systems, and it’s not just large corporations who abuse those systems, apparently it happens throughout some of the larger charities too.

[kiddr01]

True he does start off by exampling starbucks and organic produces, which lead you off that way, but does break into general charity, starting with quoting Oscar Wilde “ It is much more easy to have sympathy with suffering than it is with thought”

This is the point that arguingplentifully thought I was illustrating so well with my disapproval of the ideology in this video.

[kiddr01]

Zizek then goes on to say charity does not cure the problem but only prolongs it. I guess he thinks in a sense (and in some case it might even be true) that charity keeps people static in the situation they’re in. This is where I think he’s wrong, it’s an abstract thought with no real research into the physicality’s of the subject. And I think this subject can be treated as such and that such massively rounded hypotheses as his are unfair and impractical.

[kiddr01]

He is indeed an idealist when he says the better idea is to reconstruct society so poverty is impossible. At this particular moment in time and certainly for the next foreseeable future, this task is impossible. And many charities do take that attitude anyway, a lot of them are about education and infrastructure, not the just dishing necessities.

[kiddr01]

Again he states ‘charity degrades and demoralizes’. This really illustrates his lack of tangible experience on the subject and his narrow view. He seems to simply be taking the view of charity from inside his head and subjugating it to his fanciful interpretation of how the world should work.

[kiddr01]

What also illustrates this is when he talks about slave owners who were kind being the worst slave owners. The only way this would fit with his theory would have been if the slaves rose up against their masters and took their freedom.

[kiddr01]

But hat isn’t what happened is it? Lincoln freed the slaves – and for money more reasons than just moral (political and strategic also). The only difference was that for a short time some slaves were treated better than others. Some human lives were made better for their short time on the planet.

[kiddr01]

What confuses me is at the end when he does say ‘of course charity is a good thing, who doesn’t want to help the child etc’ but then he does disqualify it with more oscar wilde. Saying that the child who has a life saving operation that costs $20 dollars is simply put back into a crappy situation.. what if it wasn’t crappy to the child. What if it wasn’t crappy at all, but just looked like that to our western eyes? What if he really wanted to live?

[kiddr01]

It’s just too basic , which is my main problem – Zizek thinks he’s being clever with an avant garde notion, and he talks with so much certainty and arrogance – he’s obviously become far to used to giving lectures to 4th year philosophy students.

If you could point out to me in the video the link to corporate charity is separated from everyday charity, that would make me happy

[CMBlue]

Perhaps you're misunderstanding his terms. When he refers to 'charity' I don't think he's referring to programs that help people on their feet, I think he's referring to sort of the underhanded capitalist sort of 'giving' that occurs (i.e. most seed and crop donations are funneled through Monsanto and other large corporations who send seeds that only last one yield, etc, etc) and the institutions you're referring to are changes in the system which he believes should occur. : )

[kiddr01]

well to begin with he assumes that because people receive charity it elevates their life experience to place where they no longer feel like they need to make an effort to rectify the situation themselves. Just because a 12 year old in Uganda gets a second hand pair of shoes every six months doesn't mean he feels like he's living the dream - I'll bet you he wants to pull himself out of the dirt as much as he did before.

[kiddr01]

Also if you actually speak to people who are the recipients of charity (say an asylum seeker for example - one of my friends works with a refugee charity) All they want to do is become a useful member of society, educate and further themselves. This certainly doesn't fit with Slavoj Zizek's take on the situation.

[kiddr01]

I'd like to know what research he's conducted if any at all - i suppose he classify's himself as a 'philosopher' which means he thinks he can spout this kind of rhetoric as viscerally as he likes. Which is in fact my main problem with this presentation. I don't mind other, radical points of view, in fact i welcome them. But hearing this level of self assuredness on such a misanthropic, potentially evil point of view saddens me.

[kiddr01]

If we were to actually put this into practice, how long do you think it would take the rest of the world to dig themselves out of poverty? 100, 200, 500 years? What if we're wiped out before then and we've just spent this time being out for ourselves (which is not Zizeks intention but would be the end result). Intentions don't mean a thing in the end, It's only our actions the truly count.

[kiddr01]

Zizeks talking about purist capitalism - if you want wealth, security and prosperity then you can take it. But there's simply not enough to go round, and if i can offer my own misanthropic view it would be that given the right excuses, humans will be selfish, greedy and eventually uncaring. It's easy to keep poor people poor so the rich can stay rich.

Maybe in the end Zizek's is actually the opposite of a misanthrope and is a little too optimistic!

[kiddr01]

I've never heard such an amount of crap in my life. The man should be ashamed of himself. He's living in a fictional world of absolutism. It actually made me sad and angry to hear this

[IndigoSoul1]

@kiddr01 why ?

[arguingplentifully]

@kiddr01 *standing ovation* Congrats, you've made Zizek's point for him.

Instead of actually tackling or even mentioning any part of his argument for radical politics, you've just expressed vague moral outrage ('The man should be ashamed of himself'!). Apparently philosophers shouldn't deal with difficult subjects in case they might make people like you 'sad and angry'.

Or maybe I'm just living in 'a fictional world of absolutism' too (the Empire in Star Wars, perhaps?)

[goteeisit]

Just watched this on wimp... I guess someone decided to upload it.

[nigmafrost]

amazing...