CLIMBING TOOLS: Vector angles in your anchor

[anaik1]

Hey Joe, the word your looking for is moment (as opposed to lever). We use it in aviation all of the time. Moment = weight * distance from CG.

Think of a diver on a diving board, if they stand over the base then the board stays flat, but the further they walk out to the edge the more the board flexes.

Love your videos!

[jordanlt001]

Thanks for the instruction. I find your videos helpful.

[jahhmin]

Fantastic video. Thank you.

[243WW]

Mike, love your work mate! Heaps of good info. Keep them coming. Angles, and slinging = rigging. Some basic rigging for cranes will explain the angles and dangles as well...

[Rileymoto]

Hey i just wanted to know, What do you think is better: A self equalizing anchor or a static anchor! Thanks!

[skyerunner]

For anchors, the AMGA "guide" is ERNEST

Equalized

Redundant

No Extension

Solid (surrounding rock)

Timely

Self equalizing anchors therefore do not meet the "no extension" requirement unless you tie limiter knots, which eliminates the usefulness of the self equalization. The only situations where a sliding x or other self equalizing system will help is when there is a dramatic change in the direction of pull.

Get professional instruction if you want to do it right.

[fortinbras47]

The way it all works out is that F_bolt = F_load / (2 * cos (theta / 2) ) where theta is the angle of the V part of the sling.... (you want theta to be as small as possible! ..... if theta = 0, then it's perfectly equalized cause cos(0) = 1). At 120 degrees, cos(60) = 1/2, so your setup isn't reducing force on each bolt at all..... and at over 120 degrees, the amount of force on the bolt is actually higher than the load! (I'm a dorky math guy, just learning how to climb.)

[mikebarter387]

you are a dorky math guy, thanks

[fortinbras47]

Nice video! The math is that you have a straight down vector (0, -1000) from your thousand pound weight. The two anchors are sharing this force, so their force vectors should sum to (0, -1000). That is, we have (-x, -500) + (x, -500) = (0, -1000). Using pythogrean formula, magnitude of force on each anchor is squareroot(x^2 + 500^2). x is determined by the angle (because the force vector on anchor has to match angle of sling). Use sin or cos to calculate x.

[sethcat99]

this is also the same dynamic for sling loading for crane operators.

[mikebarter387]

hadn't thought about that but true enough. Certianly the exact same principal. Isn't there a NY crane operator that should have watched this vid several month sago?

The Mike

[iolairjames]

great video love the props well done

[lwivfhuqlfaiouhs]

i like porn

[stzzo]

Well, if you wanna know, study up mechanical "statics" (with regard to loads & forces).

[aikidophreak]

Nice vid, my only grip is that the knot placement is not ideal in this demo. I make sure that any knots are not setting in the biner. I would have rotated the rope so the knot slid down about 8" or so, so the knot is being pulled straite when loaded and not bent through the biner.

[shlitser]

Hey Mike, I`ve been ice climbing here in Norway for sometime now but,your vids have helped me out more than you can imagine.

Thanks for all the info.

Jerry G

[PaulT1960]

Great Videos, I am taking High Angle Rescue Courses in Ontario and saw a American Death Triangle this weekend. We quickly informed the climber. Ps, lots of neet tips.

Paul T

[PaulT1960]

Great Videos, I am taking High Angle Rescue Coures in Ontario and your videos have some neat tips like this one. By the way, past weekend we saw a Americian Death Triangle as an anchor and quickly informed the climber!!

[mikebarter387]

Thanks Bro

I was just messing around with the anchors. Hoping that the point was not lost in the end.

[scottah]

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but this is this a slightly misleading demo when you have the very wide angle???

They fell over because those 'anchors' were only built to take DOWNWARDS force, and very little sideways force. Hence widen the angle, and the force direction gets more 'sideways' hence they fell over.

Other than that, great video, I will watch the rest of them now.

Thanks

[mountainmanrab]

Excellent visual explanation you have made it easy to understand and entertaining at the same time thanks

[lakocirculation]

Excellent visual explanation!

[zwas3917]

A vector is a measurement (or description) of something that includes both a magnitude and a direction. v=xi+yj+zk

As opposed to a scalar which is just a magnitude... if that helps anyone else wondering what a vector is

[nitsudnetpak]

oh shit this guy is great! funny and smart! its pricless when the weight pulls the poles over! ahahaha

[gar05189]

I´ve noticed that when you make the knot to make the anchors non extensive sometimes you use an overhand knot and sometimes you use a figure 8; are both ok or is there a reason to choose one over the other? I´ve noticed that overhand knot is simpler to untie if you rub the knot against the wall.

[mikebarter387]

No it does not matter. If you have enough cord tye a 8 if it is getting tight tye a overhand

[thebksfriend]

Looks like a great and smart trad climber. Funny to^^

[valreznic]

I must be thinking along the same lines as you buddy, that was easy to understand and entertaining at the same time. :P

You rock!

[dcsolorunner]

lolololol when he put it at a wide angle! I know he knew it was coming, but the look on his face was priceless.

[bjornvideo]

Conclusion: REDUCE the angle when possible and NEVER go beyond 120 degrees

[mikebarter387]

Could not have saud it better myself. In fact I didn't. Thanks for adding all that it sure helps me to understand and explain this physics problem better.

[bjornvideo]

So by moving the anchor points away from eachother we add a force so each point can feel for example 75% of the load meaning that we put 150% the weight on the anchor points together.

When the angle is 120 degrees (1 third of a circle) each point is loaded with 100% of the weight (sum the load on the points=200%)

[bjornvideo]

Basic physics says to move something you need a force so why does the anchor move?

Because by moving the points apart we add a force, working in between the anchors. The greater angle the the bigger the added force. (See mental image, greater angle gives more violent/fast movement when one point breaks which means a greater force.

[bjornvideo]

2nd example: angle > 0

anchor points spread out from eachother.

if the distance to the 2 points is the same they still share the load 50-50.

BUT! loosing one point will make the anchor MOVE so it hangs directly under the remaining.

[bjornvideo]

1st example: angle = 0

both anchor points next to eachother and

sharing 50-50 the load.

cutting one point will only put all the weight on the remaining.

[bjornvideo]

Vector is simply a mathematical description of for example a force that have both size and direction. (compare mass that only have size and no direction) other examples on where to use vectors are speed, acceleration etc...

Using vector mathematics can easily show that the force on the anchor points is amplified but you can do it in your mind too..

[ruylegrand]

CMC Rope Rescue 3º ed - James A Frank

Anchor Systems pg 75 fig 10-9, for ex.

Don´t take me bad...

Good lucky and nice climbs!

[mikebarter387]

Sorry but that makes no sense at all. There is no scientific reasoning behind your statement. Sience the load direction is along the intended spine of the biner and the knot is directed towards the focul point away from the biner your implication that the load is incorrectly placed or amplified is unfounded.

[mikebarter387]

I googled your bible and came up with nothing. The local library does not have it also. any chance of getting a scanned copy of the page

[ruylegrand]

ok man,sorry

[ruylegrand]

When you pull down the system one of the cords in the right side will be overcharged because the fisherman is gonna be a little entangled.

For this reason the knots always have to keep away from the carabiners.

Big hugs...

[mikebarter387]

Had to really think about this one. Personally I think is a non-issue. As the anchor is loaded the knot is pulled in the direction of load away from the biner. I am sorry but I don't understand what you mean by "overcharged" or " a little entangled".

[mikebarter387]

Keeping the knot out of the focul point seems to be more of an issue, not for strenght but ease of creation and estetics. I don't recall a single case of the knot near the biner being an issue. I also have not read or heard of any documentation stating this. I would love to be pointed to some.

[sytby]

At 2:21, the knot in the cordalette fetches up against the 'biner on the viewer's right, causing the strands of that leg to load unevenly.

[ruylegrand]

Good but try to keep the fisherman far from the anchor carabine.

5 stars

[mikebarter387]

why?

[lmcfranks]

hi mike great segment as im learning and more a self taught type of guy, well done...5 stars, thanks

[mikebarter387]

Glad it helps. I will be adding more as time goes by. It is te little things that added together become a huge thing

[tobefunk]

that was pretty funny when your anchor fell