Can a dentist stand up to the experts?

[friedie1jeff]

I am ashamed and embarrassed that there is a person like this on a school board in the United States. Further, he is so off-base that perhaps the dental bosard should consider his license.

[MrJohnnyrace]

What a dumb fuck. And, hes in where else but Texass.

[kabloozie]

now that mcleroy is a self proclaimed expert on evolution, what's next - brain surgery? quantum mechanics? micro-scale fluid dynamics?

[dalinean]

what a hypocrite;

[Feloxenos]

So wait, these people determine what goes into textbooks?

[Darusdei]

hahahahahaha... only in america :DDD

[Christuserloeser]

"HE WAS BLIND BECAUSE HE HAD THIS PRECONCEIVED NOTION!"

[jebus6kryst]

Quote mines. Quote mines.

[currylee]

funny how creationist would cry wolf about "appeal to authority" when they frequently appeal to magic sky daddy and his imaginary son

[yhwhizlife1]

ohh myy God only by onee ! come on thats ridiculous wats the difference of one person in a situation this serious

[cbrochu]

I got my PhD at UT-Austin in 1997.  I'd be terribly embarrassed today to have someone as ignorant and boneheaded as this making decisions about the textbooks used by children.

[Nielow100]

Appeal to authority? That is called projecting. Evolution is about appeal to evidence.

Stephen Jay Gould, Stephen Jay Gould, Stephen Jay Gould - appeal to authority - what an idiot

btw. genetics don't explain why things are as they are, evolution does.

[heathdwatts]

McLeroy is a liar and a idiot, as all creationists are. He is taking Gould out of context, as creationists often do. How many times will creationists be allowed to misuse punctuated equilibrium in a public forum? Why do we allow lunatics like McLeroy a voice and opinion in a public forum? Smart people need to start speaking out against these people in a public manner. McLeroy began his diatribe by stating that he is not a scientist, but then goes on to question science he doesn't understand.

[sol3a1]

Who am I, a dentist, that I can stand up to the Tax Code.  Here are some quotes.....

Quoting from, actually quote mining, Charles Walcott was in the 1900s.

[MrMZaccone]

No, science doesn't operate on consensus, it operates on EVIDENCE! It definitely DOESN'T operate on QUOTE MINING, YOU DUMB FUCK!

[MrMZaccone]

That's not the point. Who are you, a dentist, to question 150+ years of EVIDENCE!? That's the fucking point. Saying that the appeal to authority is the "strongest evidence" is just an outright lie. It's too bad you weren't sworn in for these proceedings, you'd be in a fucking prison cell where you probably belong.

[Bristow42]

Is this man in charge of education your kids? A denist as well I would see another denist.

[GallusSapien]

No who are you as a moron to outright reject a concept you constantly show you don't even have a first grade understanding of?

[srch4trth]

"He wrote a book called The Wonderful Life, uhhhh I mean (pause). I think that's what is was...."

---Sorry audience, I'm not sure of the book's title because I didn't actually read it. So excuse while I quote mine.

[srch4trth]

How can a dentist stand up to experts?

--The question should be: How can ANYONE stand up to experts?

Answer: Come up with a hypothesis that disproves Evolution. Gather evidence. Test it. Evaluate the conclusions. Retest it, to see if the test yields the same results. Submit your finding to be peer reviewed. If your results can be repeated, then you have a theory that disporves Evolution. BTW, scientists are constantly trying to disprove Evolution. NO ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DISPROVE IT

[crabbit101]

I'm so fucking angry I've had to stop watching this halfway through.

[Dryteur]

I love how he shows his gross ignorance without even knowing it. Yeah why should we listen to the experts? They are dumb as shit and despite coming from all different places on the earth, having their own specializations, and own motivations, they all perpetrate their own agenda.

Lol

[imanselmo]

Good points.  I'll be honest, I had a hard time understanding what he was getting at. He didn't seem very prepared to discuss this--seemed to keep losing his place and whatnot. If I'd have read the book(s)/article(s) he mentioned, I might have had an easier time following him, but I have not. Thanks for clarifying.

[imanselmo]

So...a good substitute for appeal to authority...is...appeal to non-authority? I don't understand. Argument from authority fallacy states that something is not NECESSARILY true ONLY because someone of authority on that matter says it is true. However, the more people of authority on that matter that agree on its truth, the more likely it actually is true. It would still technically be fallacious to claim that something is necessarily true in this instance, but what is the alternative here?

[CliffStamp]

@imanselmo His argument seems to be to think independently and not just accept what authority says. That is fairly sound advice in general. In general, arguments should be weighed based on what they are, not who said them.

[imanselmo]

@CliffStamp Agreed 100%. I'm just not sure his independent thought on the matter is a convincing alternative to what the majority of authority figures are saying. I want to know what his alternative theory is and what evidence supports it. He mostly just seems to be saying, "These guys might be wrong, and I object to their theory for ideological reasons." Plus, he ironically uses the authority of Stephen J Gould as support for his assertion that we should not rely on authority.

[CliffStamp]

@imanselmo In this case he was arguing that the fossil record seems to indicate stasis and not continuous change, he was further asserting this should be in the textbooks as a weakness of the theory.

I would ask, do any of the textbooks which introduce forces (f=ma) talk about the weakness of this law for relativistic and quantum application?

They are supposed to *introduce* the idea, not be definitive.

[onijester56]

@imanselmo Actually, ironically even more, he's using Stephen Gould as an authority on his claim on not relying on authority when the 'authority' that he's objecting to is actually not how science works. Even when lay-people refer scientific 'authorities', the intent is not the person's authority themselves but their experiments, evidences, data, conclusions, and references.

It's the same as using the Socratic method: It's used not because Socrates used it but because it's valid on its own.

[niekvdbogert]

isnt democracy great ;-)

[FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7]

who won?

[ScepticalCynic]

@FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7

The people with the evidence on their side when this went to the Dover vs Kitzmiller trial and all those creation... err intelligent designers got demolished in court.

[ffairlane57]

i could watch the move Inherit the Wind, and get the same thing, but this is definitely better.

[Klayhamn]

ONE DENTIST TO RULE THEM ALL

[pantelopes]

"Science doesn't operate on consensus" XD

[TrailerTrashific]

Oh wow, how did these people get on the board? I wonder if he even knows the meaning of the term non sequitur. To leave the education in the hands of these mentally unstable people is very sad. Conservative right needs to be stripped off of its powerful hold on this nation.

[1lovereason]

Though he has a right to believe in whatever he deems fit to believe, his performance in the video has titillated my mind to such an extent that I am forced to ask: does this moron live in the 21st century? I apologize for my bad manners, but I could not resist the temptation to be crass and uncouth on this occasion.

[prayandr]

How arrogant does someone have to be to look at a statement signed by over 600 experts in the field and say "well I went over to this lab across the street and yada yada yada" so therefore these people are wrong. These people dedicate their LIVES to researching this stuff and you think (or try and pretend to think) because you read a couple books over the weekend and looked up a few quotes you can actually come to an independent conclusion?

[icemachine79]

Does this man really not understand that you can't prove a negative in science? If you have a competing theory you have to back it up, and no competing theory to evolution has done that no matter how much people like Don McLeroy prattle on. Evolution is the best explanation available, evolution explains genetics, and until this dentist comes up with a better one backed by proof his objections are meaningless.

[megachepo]

@icemachine79

Thank you. That was exactly what I was thinking. It really boggles the mind to think how this guy ended up as chairman of the board of education. I do believe it's a bigger mistery than what was before the Big Bang.

[FiverBeyond]

Precisely the attitude that lets "Teach the Controversy" get pushed into the textbooks in our schools.

Shudder.

[CarbonBackbone]

wow

[Saviolaclass]

is this guy mentally retarded?

[Gorteenminogue]

It's like watching someone driving off a cliff. You know it's going to happen, he's halfway over and still doesn't realise it.

[heloizyjhenifer]

genetics -> genetic drift -> evolution.

yes sequitur.

[tehKap0w]

"science doesn't operate on concensus"

pure gold!

[donfolstar]

This guy has control of the education of one of the largest student bodies in the USA. (Powerful)

He wants to decide science by a vote- even though he admits that isn't how science works. (Liar)

He struggles to read and construct complete sentences throughout this clip. (Idiot)

Powerful Lying Idiot

[rkw007]

that does make sense to me. I guess it'll still take a while till neurobiologists can do that on a routine basis with a large number of animals, mostly because the entire system is fairly complex (number of components involved), which has to be analyzed over a certain period of time (morphological and biochemical changes)

[rkw007]

there's an increase in surface area and in the number of receptors and vesicles, which leads to an increase in the respons ( also in aplysia according to Kandel and Co.)

[rkw007]

I assume that some form of plasticity developed within organisms over time, because the possibility of an adaptive response to a changing environment provides an evolutionary advantage, that's of course just guessing on my behalf

[rkw007]

The long term effect of LTP seems to be similar: a morphological change of the synapses (spine formation, increase in size. for a review: Molecular Mechanisms of Memory Storage in Aplysia, Hawkins et al. Biol. Bull 2006 ) - had to look it up again, my knowledge on neurobiology got a bit rusty:)

[rkw007]

Fair enough, it might be true that these scientist did not explicitly consider it in their analysis. Yet the similar mechanisms provide evidence for a common ancestry - which makes a "knowledge transfer" possible in the first place. Otherwise one would have to re-investigate each neuronal system independently (i.e. scientist rely on evolution, the implicit assumption that it's true)

[rkw007]

while LTP might not have "evolved" that much going from aplysia to higher organisms (focussing on single cell signaling only), it's a shared (common) trait. While most of the basic molecular components are preserved, the neuronal circuitry (it's complexity) evolved, see e.g. the development of the eye.

[rkw007]

While evolution might not be explicitly mentioned, much of the basics of molecular neurobiology were derived from simple organisms (see e.g. E. Kandel, Aplysia californica) and the knowledge was transferred and compared to higher organisms - evolution of neuronal circuitry - i.e. common descent

[nightpotato]

Yes, I structure my life around the theory of evolution. rolleyes

[rba718]

Lol Appeal to Authority is a logical fallacy, fucking dumbass.

[DonsonJack]

Appeal to authority, when that authority is expert on that specific field, is not logical fallacy or any kind of mistake.

now that does _not_ mean that you can simply win any argument by appealing to authority of course.

In the case of scientific community, their consensus presents best possible knowledge mankind has on these subjects, and thus is not ´logical fallacy´.

It is Ok to appeal to a scientific consensus.

[alliancesigns]

i am so glad that he is gone from Texas school board. what a lying, quote-minding and many other things douche bag

[dannyp76]

"600 experts signed this statement, but I somehow know better." Brilliant. Convincing. I'm sold.

I love the ending with the vote count :)

[Grimlythedwarf]

Surely you can't take some expert's view and change the wording to support your own view. No scientist ever does that.

Evolution only makes a difference in an integrative biology lab? Well that would be a difference...just because people in those labs aren't studying evolution at the same time as their speciality field doesn't make it irrelevant and I doubt a dentist with a creationist bent would care anyway no matter if he was in a integrative lab.

[anselmo666666]

Nothing in biology makes sense without evolution.

[LaughingMan42]

This is hilarious. I like how he introduces the best arguments against his own position, and even points out that preconceived notions (like his own notion of the existence of god) can bias your view of the world.

[okapitheif]

What a MORON...

[EntinludeX]

Sooooo he doens't understand the relationship between genetics and evolution? It's GENIUS I tells ya...

[rbairos1]

Ooo. What a photo finish.

[mathcreative]

Hey guys his point is that evolution is not really that important for children to learn, and for all that I know he's right.

[LittleDevilIsMyType]

You need to learn evolution even for farming, to learn how to select the best crops, for animal breeding.

For medicine, for anything with biology, kids need to learn this.

[mathcreative]

why for medicine and why for biology?

[LittleDevilIsMyType]

Evolution is among the most thoroughly tested theories in the biological sciences. It is supported by volumes of scientific evidence in numerous fields, including genetics, biochemistry, developmental biology, comparative anatomy, immunology, geology, and paleontology.

Moreover, evolution lays the foundation for much of what we know about genetics, immunology, antibiotic resistance, human origins, and the adaptation of species to a changing environment.

Tons of reasons.

[mathcreative]

Thanks, I agree with yu

[RexMundi71]

Bull. He would love to make you think that, wouldn't he? That is not his motive, and anyone that's honest knows this. You should stop buying into this quote-mining, anti-scientific garbage.

[Cephalochordata]

"He was blind because he had this preconceived notion" 2:32

Every time McLeroy points that finger, three of his fingers are pointing back at himself. I would be snickering, if this wasn't so sad.

[omiteru]

Can a dentist stand up to experts? No, especially when he is cherry picking quotes. Why does he not real the complete sentence, or paragraph?

When will Don McLeroy realize that he has last the war. This man believes that he has a better understanding of evolution that people who are actually doing the research.

According to Don McLeroy's logic anyone can become a dentist without having to listen to the experts.

[CrosshairJack]

THAT GUY IS A FUCKING CUNT!

[Friendo1231]

Creationists love to take Gould's words out of context, and he frequently acknowledged this and clarified on what he meant.

Gould said a number of times that he supported the ToE and the evidence is what guided his support.

They also like to take Alan Feduccia's quote on archaeopteryx out of context. Feduccia also clarified on this point, saying that archaeopteryx is in fact a transitional fossil.

You can read both these men's exact quotes here on the net.

[JustGreatThanks]

What have we learned today kids?

It's wrong to "appeal to authority," unless of course that authority happens to be Stephen Jay Gould and his words can easily twisted. Then you can appeal all you like, even if you criticized appealing to authority LITERALLY SECONDS EARLIER.

[JRBendixen]

Amazingly he was actually intelligent enough to answer his telephone, when the discovery institute called and told him they had a few quotes for him.

Further I think he did a great job reading the quotes, I really did not know if he could actually read.

[JRBendixen]

Quote mining, how cute.

[tomaselvis]

He's on the school board and has reading problems?

[CodyatUT]

"The evidence does not support evolution..." This is absurd...

I don't like his implicit placement of religion opposite science, either (e.g., reference to the Christian monk Mendel...).

[Kattarina98]

I bet if the authors had not "quoted the authorities" he would have asked: "Where are the sources of your extraordinary claims?"

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

God, maybe we should actually encourage Texas to Secede.

At least it would make the collective average intelligence of the country go up.

[TheFallibleFiend]

He's not even smart enough to be embarrassed.

[anthonzi]

Lol authority is the last thing that scientists work with. The problem is that IGNORANCE is not an excuse to dismiss scientific theories.

[adayanayan]

The speaker's cluelessness and disregard for any kind of precision is revealed even before he begins his quote-mining of Gould. Notice how he fumbles over the title and then stumbles over the term "Burgess Shale," which he quickly re-pronounces as "shell," as if there is something called a "Burgess Shell." This is ironic because the Burgess Shale is well known as a location that preserves the soft parts of animals!

[Ryan44567]

Man if this guy knows so much why is he still a dentist?

[anthonzi]

hahahaha!

[jzuidema]

laughing my friggin ass off.."lets swap evolution with genetics"...seeing as genetics is one of, if not THE best proofs FOR evolution, that statement is hilarious!!! What an idiot...

[jamesball1]

Philosophical speculation??

He's the fucking board CHAIRMAN?!

He really has absolutely no idea what he's talking about does he? Evolution has been observed and proven beyond reasonable doubt. Modern genetics supports evolution! Christ what a moron!

[hwk1969]

What A TOOL! If I were in Mcleroy's district, I would motion to remove him from his post as he is clearly unqualified for the position. This guy must really want to get into heaven...another fine case of lying for Jesus!

[seth3481]

When I was a kid so called "expert" dentists told me to brush and floss my teeth, or they would all fall out. I didn't buy into their "expert" rubbish, and I still have one left! I sure showed them!! Stupid experts.

[shunt19]

i think hes struggeling to read that book.

[hanzo138]

I could have swore the argument from authority was a logical fallacy

[mandangalo18]

If it's from someone who is a true erudite expert on the subject it's not a fallacy. Unless what the authority says is fallacious I guess.

[Desertphile]

To paraphrase Rev McLeroy: "All the educated and intelligent people of the country oppose me!"

[fourthirteen]

I gotta quit watching these. It makes me want to beat my head against a wall.

[shunt19]

i totally agree with you, these people are ridiculous

[hanzo138]

really? it makes me want to beat mcleroys head against a wall

[magick205]

What have you got against that poor wall. You know it'll give out before that thick ass skull of his.

[Desertphile]

"Evolution is not vital to understanding the biological sciences. Evolution is ideology... philosophical speculation!"

Good bloody *GODS* that's funny! If evolution is speculation and philosophy and ideology, then so is snow, sunlight, rain, gravity, and the attraction of dissimilar charges.

Who did Rev McLeroy ever get on a board of education, even in Tejas?

[CDTOE]

The favorite creationists' tool : Quote Mining .

[pete975]

victory for reason

[Nades129]

Can a nurses stand up to Doctors and surgeons?

[Saukko31]

Like tikielvis said, oh the hypocrisy. Mr. McLeroy, when you are going to join the rest of us in the 21st century?

DonExodus2 made recently a video (which is now flagged) about evolution and reasonable doubt:

watch?v=cDyeRg-PdvI

[verstwo2]

does he realize Gould is an 'evolutionist'.  What a dishonest moron.

[verstwo2]

this man is a disgusting waste of a life. To twist those quotes to suit his own agenda.

[WereAllApes]

Only in Texas would they have this discussion.

[Politicimo]

Arrogance on a cosmic scale.

[tikielvis]

Typical...crying about 'appeals to authority' and then IMMEDIATELY misquoting/quote mining Gould, etc. to try and make his point. At least he can still find work at the Discovery Institute after they ride him out of town on a rail.

[j9dz2sf]

Appalling.

[Redshift21]

Indeed, that was one of the most painful exhibitions of stupidity I've ever seen.

[BohemianBlasphemy]

"He was blind because he had a preconceived notion"

EXACTLY! Thanks, Dr. McLeroy! You have discredited ID, creationism and even religious dogma!

[altfish2]

Stunningly ignorant

[Entertainmentwf]

LOL, I would never want this man to be my dentist. I'm quite sure most universities TODAY have all dentistry students take at least the intro course in biology lol.

[WannabeTesla]

If I am ever sitting in a dentist's chair and I see that man walk in, I will walk out.

[anthonzi]

Your teeth are the perfect creations of GAWD!

[Cafeeine]

I've heard about the asshattery of Macleroy, but to see it myself is something else. He lies lies lies like an expert.

[Cafeeine]

1:14 "Science doesnt derive from consensus"

Of course it does! A consensus derived from learned honest scientists looking at the facts.

[ReMembrane]

he can hardly pronounce biology

[Havermayer]

Ask him if he's ever read a book on evolution. Ever.

[mathmexican4234]

That guy is such a complete asshat.

[LawnBoy75]

It's amazing to see someone objecting to argument from authority when asking people to ignore the science and do what his pastor wants.

[Nades129]

qoute mining. real sick....

i feel sorry for the professionals who work hard to give the society knowledge.

[PTurchan1]

At the end, when they said it was to be struck, what does that mean?

[Flyborg]

Please tell me there's at least one person on this board with the knowledge to respond to this douche.

So "strike" won. Is that good? What was struck?

[magick205]

I think so. It removes the language that would've provided a foothold for the introduction of ID as a competing source of the variation of life. The thing that I find funniest was the fact he was quoting Gould as saying preconceptions are bad when at the same time all he wants to do is introduce his own nonscientific repconceptions into the classroom. And evolution not being part and parcel of genetics? Be serious, it's the heart of heredity: decent with modification.

[ragetony]

19 fucking 20zzzz. Are you fucking kidding meeee. ohh my fucking gawd. I think I need a gun to put me out of this misery. Is it bad for me to want to punch this douche in the head.

[Falloutmoon]

How did this idiot become a dentist ?