This fascinates, watching comments over time. The pervasive point made seems to be "this is not what real Romani dancing looks like", with Tsigano (is my Google-fu bad, or is your name an Italian word meaning Gypsy?) helpfully providing search parameters. Too, the continuing questions seem to be "why is this being done" and "why do they mean such disrespect / offense".
Trying to answer: Offense is not meant, they/we just don't know any better. It fills a theatre niche with best info avail.
Looks like white people rehearsing for some Aladdin pantomime. This isn't Romani (Gypsy) dancing. It isn't even remotely like it. I am confused why white middle class people of western Europe and America feel the need to take up evening dance classes of dancing and name it to an ethnic people even when they obviously know nothing about these people or it seems even know how we actually dance. Its the same with belly dance. Romani don't and never have belly danced. Its crazy why people say we do
@Tsigano - Call it romanticizing an idea. This is a performing group for a Renaissance Festival, an event that is itself a sanitized, simplified, and romanticized event. That being said, I would be very interested in you pointing me toward video(s) showing real Romani dancing.
@TheWizardAlexander look on my profile and go through my favs and I'm sure you will see some real Romani dancing. See if I have fav' any Romani weddings. I fav' as it is a part of my cultureso I can relate to it. I have grown up with it. People can't tell me what is Romani.It is our culture that is a part of us so we don't desire to share it as this is not it's purpose. Its purpose is that it is for us and is a part of us and is not to be made into some cheap attraction for Gaje (non-Romani).
@TheWizardAlexander Sorry if I come across rude. I don't mean to be, but there is so many white European dance classes doing some Middle Eastern dance that is nothing to do with my people. Whats worse they dress in ways that would actually be disallowed in Romani life (Unlike most other culture we have strict laws of how we are to acts called Wuzho & Maxado). Also some of the dances I see (belly dance) historically has association with prostitutes in the Arab world so it give false accusations.
@Tsigano Hi, I've been researching and been a student of belly dance for two years and have not come across Belly Dance as a dance for prostitutes. Quite the opposite actually in most cases. Could you point me to your sources for this claim so I can better further my historical knowledge of my dance. Thank you!
@Promthanius I have been Romani all my life and have studied Romani dance all my life and haven't once come across any form of Romani dancing that remotely resembles belly dancing. I ask my self then why gaje (non-Romani) would be so offensive in making dancing not of us and yet call it us.
@Tsigano Yes, of course, Romani dancing is from all parts of the world and has no "specific" style exactly. How can it when gypsies are from all over? I do know where people think the original Rom came from and therefor their dance would have some of that culture in it. I could go on as I too have studied Rom dancing for some time. But what I was asking is where have you heard that belly dancing (raqs sharqi) was performed by prostitutes?
@Promthanius if u think this then u obviously know nothing about or even what Romani music is. Romani music isn't from all parts of the world. Traditional Romani music is of Indian origin & has greatly influenced many other musics (especially latin). Romani music of western Europe is centered on the guitar (from India geet=song & tar = string) & like all Romani music is uses clapping, raised arms & tap dance. In the east Europe Romani have the Dhouli drum (like Indian Dhol drum).
@Promthanius Your question is not important to the fact a whole ethnic people are being insulted by this daft video and nothing has been done about it. I was told about belly dancing by a tour guide whilst in Turkey on a visit to Ephesus & Pamukkale. It is the common belief of many people of that part of the world. This does not change the fact that my culture is not a show piece for non-Romani people to feel the need to insult us. How dare you say you have "studied" my people.
@Promthanius Another thing. If you know some much then how come you say "Rom dancing"? Rom is the title for a "married and respected man within our community". Roms (plural) in Romani is "Roma". Roma is also a name used by a subgroup of Romani people who mainly live in southeast Europe. It is a new & ignorant trend amongst Gaje (non-Romani) to start to call us as "Roma". Most groups of Romani do not recognize the word "Roma". In our language we are "Rromane", but in English are Romani / Rommany
@Promthanius As for where I think the Romani come from then I am Romani & know where I come from - India. Language, culture and DNA testing confirms this. As does our music & dancing then this also confirms it. Even flamenco is on the Indian 12 beat.. Romani in Spain (Gitano / Cigani / Kale) broke away from Romani (Sinti) in the Holy Roman Empire in around 1410ad. Records show hey left Flemish lands & arrived in Aragon in Spain in 1425ad. The Spanish valued them for their music even then
@Tsigano "I am confused why white middle class people of western Europe and America feel the need to take up evening dance classes of dancing and name it to an ethnic people even when they obviously know nothing about these people"
It's not that hard to understand. Nearly everything ethnic and colorful was washed out of middle America. That leaves people with a hunger for folkloric things, and a desire to reconstruct them. Allowing in more immigrants might be a better way, though.
What's with the shaking video? Is there no tripod?
Anyway, great dance group.
ravhynejb 5 months ago
This fascinates, watching comments over time. The pervasive point made seems to be "this is not what real Romani dancing looks like", with Tsigano (is my Google-fu bad, or is your name an Italian word meaning Gypsy?) helpfully providing search parameters. Too, the continuing questions seem to be "why is this being done" and "why do they mean such disrespect / offense".
Trying to answer: Offense is not meant, they/we just don't know any better. It fills a theatre niche with best info avail.
TheWizardAlexander 6 months ago
umm lol gypsys dont dance like that lol i shud no cuz im a gypsy lol
gypsywichitamarksboy 6 months ago
Looks like white people rehearsing for some Aladdin pantomime. This isn't Romani (Gypsy) dancing. It isn't even remotely like it. I am confused why white middle class people of western Europe and America feel the need to take up evening dance classes of dancing and name it to an ethnic people even when they obviously know nothing about these people or it seems even know how we actually dance. Its the same with belly dance. Romani don't and never have belly danced. Its crazy why people say we do
Tsigano 1 year ago 2
@Tsigano - Call it romanticizing an idea. This is a performing group for a Renaissance Festival, an event that is itself a sanitized, simplified, and romanticized event. That being said, I would be very interested in you pointing me toward video(s) showing real Romani dancing.
TheWizardAlexander 1 year ago 3
@TheWizardAlexander look on my profile and go through my favs and I'm sure you will see some real Romani dancing. See if I have fav' any Romani weddings. I fav' as it is a part of my cultureso I can relate to it. I have grown up with it. People can't tell me what is Romani.It is our culture that is a part of us so we don't desire to share it as this is not it's purpose. Its purpose is that it is for us and is a part of us and is not to be made into some cheap attraction for Gaje (non-Romani).
Tsigano 1 year ago
@TheWizardAlexander Sorry if I come across rude. I don't mean to be, but there is so many white European dance classes doing some Middle Eastern dance that is nothing to do with my people. Whats worse they dress in ways that would actually be disallowed in Romani life (Unlike most other culture we have strict laws of how we are to acts called Wuzho & Maxado). Also some of the dances I see (belly dance) historically has association with prostitutes in the Arab world so it give false accusations.
Tsigano 1 year ago
@Tsigano Hi, I've been researching and been a student of belly dance for two years and have not come across Belly Dance as a dance for prostitutes. Quite the opposite actually in most cases. Could you point me to your sources for this claim so I can better further my historical knowledge of my dance. Thank you!
Promthanius 1 year ago
@Promthanius I have been Romani all my life and have studied Romani dance all my life and haven't once come across any form of Romani dancing that remotely resembles belly dancing. I ask my self then why gaje (non-Romani) would be so offensive in making dancing not of us and yet call it us.
Tsigano 1 year ago
@Tsigano Yes, of course, Romani dancing is from all parts of the world and has no "specific" style exactly. How can it when gypsies are from all over? I do know where people think the original Rom came from and therefor their dance would have some of that culture in it. I could go on as I too have studied Rom dancing for some time. But what I was asking is where have you heard that belly dancing (raqs sharqi) was performed by prostitutes?
Promthanius 1 year ago
@Promthanius if u think this then u obviously know nothing about or even what Romani music is. Romani music isn't from all parts of the world. Traditional Romani music is of Indian origin & has greatly influenced many other musics (especially latin). Romani music of western Europe is centered on the guitar (from India geet=song & tar = string) & like all Romani music is uses clapping, raised arms & tap dance. In the east Europe Romani have the Dhouli drum (like Indian Dhol drum).
Tsigano 1 year ago
@Tsigano I do know that Rom music and dancing is. I said I have been studying it for some years now. But you are ignoring my REAL question.
Promthanius 1 year ago
@Promthanius Your question is not important to the fact a whole ethnic people are being insulted by this daft video and nothing has been done about it. I was told about belly dancing by a tour guide whilst in Turkey on a visit to Ephesus & Pamukkale. It is the common belief of many people of that part of the world. This does not change the fact that my culture is not a show piece for non-Romani people to feel the need to insult us. How dare you say you have "studied" my people.
Tsigano 1 year ago
@Promthanius Another thing. If you know some much then how come you say "Rom dancing"? Rom is the title for a "married and respected man within our community". Roms (plural) in Romani is "Roma". Roma is also a name used by a subgroup of Romani people who mainly live in southeast Europe. It is a new & ignorant trend amongst Gaje (non-Romani) to start to call us as "Roma". Most groups of Romani do not recognize the word "Roma". In our language we are "Rromane", but in English are Romani / Rommany
Tsigano 1 year ago
@Promthanius For real Romani performers type
"Roma Fest, Gypsy Dancers at the Paléo Festival"
"Romafest Gypsy Dance Theater - Verbunk"
"Live de Joaquin Cortes - Martinete (Parte 2 de 2)". For the record Joaquin Cortes now works as an ambassador for the Rromani people in Spain.
Tsigano 1 year ago
@Promthanius As for where I think the Romani come from then I am Romani & know where I come from - India. Language, culture and DNA testing confirms this. As does our music & dancing then this also confirms it. Even flamenco is on the Indian 12 beat.. Romani in Spain (Gitano / Cigani / Kale) broke away from Romani (Sinti) in the Holy Roman Empire in around 1410ad. Records show hey left Flemish lands & arrived in Aragon in Spain in 1425ad. The Spanish valued them for their music even then
Tsigano 1 year ago
@Tsigano "I am confused why white middle class people of western Europe and America feel the need to take up evening dance classes of dancing and name it to an ethnic people even when they obviously know nothing about these people"
It's not that hard to understand. Nearly everything ethnic and colorful was washed out of middle America. That leaves people with a hunger for folkloric things, and a desire to reconstruct them. Allowing in more immigrants might be a better way, though.
JohnBolender 11 months ago