Re: Don't Treat the Bible Like You Treat Food or Art.

[Gazzar]

2:06 "Isn't the fundamental problem with this conversation is radicalism...?"

No Thane Rosenbaum, the fundamental problem, for you at least, is that you just got Hitchslapped and you're losing the argument.

[dilwich123]

Thankyou for your great words Mr Hitchens.

[LaVraiVerite]

CH: "When push comes -- as it does -- to shove" -- brilliantly taking a trite expression and fixing it.

[Nulono]

6:42 Not the spread of a more gentle version? Isn't that what a vaccine is?

[SapienK]

@Nulono A smallpox vaccine is not a more gentle version of smallpox, but rather a defense against it borne from it. The purpose of a vaccine is NOT to spread the disease, but to prevent its spread.. More gentle or not, religious moderates are still representative of an ideology which provides a means of defense and justification for those who might kill in its name. "Not religion but radical religion" is not comparable to "good bacteria", it is more like cancer in remission. It can still return.

[MarvelsofaLifetime]

As Carl Sagan himself once said: “once a civilization has been bamboozled for too long, they begin to become rabid and aggressive towards any possible sign that what they’ve been believing in is nothing but a delusion and myth.”

[MarvelsofaLifetime]

I’m disappointed with the audience at the end – half of them weren’t even clapping. Why…?! Was there something uncogent about the argument Christopher laid out…?! Or perhaps this was just another example in history of someone just making, “too much sense;” breaking too many long consolidated taboos and delusions that have been hampered into peoples heads for centuries.

[Educatron3000]

Time happens instantaneously. Well all be dead soon :)

Alot has been torn down on varying religions but evidence along with proof is relative. I can say, there is a crayon and you say its a pile of blue wax.  knowledge is limited, imagination is limitless. we focus on micro, should we not take an equally logical appeal to the macro in the name of science? not base it off superstitious assumptions and rather organizing what we dont know and seeing if we can place meaning behind it?

[Educatron3000]

I wrote a page but felt bad for taking up so much space. So this is the gist of what I was thinking. There are more religious people than atheists. This means there are more weak-minded people than strong-minded people with the ability to do good regardless. If you convince these weak minds that there is no god- there is no reason to do good, which is true. Humanity would be reduced to nothing and would cease to exist. Some just have to deal with it until the rest catch up. Whats it matter?

[SapienK]

@Educatron3000 It matters because there is reason to do good even without god. Cooperation and community have their own rewards. Furthermore, those weak minds use god as a reason to commit ceaseless acts of violence and oppression against those they see as evil. Secular problems can be combated with reason and intellect, but religiously-inspired violence has no logical cure that is NOT found in irreligion. As long as people believe that god exists, people will continue to be killed in his name.

[Educatron3000]

It takes time for strongly held beliefs to fade from societies. I love what Rosenbaum said about people needing to hold on to something. For the elderly, at 60 years old, to realize what they believed in for 60 years is wrong, isn't that the most depressing thing ever? Even mothers and fathers, 40 years of living a lie is tough to deal with. My parents are religious. I am not. We only grow through necessity. Evolution takes a long time. If religion were disproved now, it would be catastrophic

[Anomalous59]

@Educatron3000 "If religion were disproved"? If by disproof you mean the tearing down of all evidence ever intended to support it, even at its most basic, then I believe that disproof came a long time ago and has been steadily reinforced to a point when it's no longer intellectually justifiable to be a theist or even a deist. I think that religion decidedly has been disproved, and the disproof has gone rather unnoticed by the people who would benefit the most from it.

[Ematched]

People in church find comfort in scripture? No shit, Einstein. If they took comfort in shakespeare or dostoevsky, they'd probably be in a classroom learning to question, doubt, read, and think freely. They wouldn't be making slaves of themselves.

[dathip]

Its so stupid to compare reason vs faith when both are not mutally exclusive. They have both.

[DreadedGuardian]

@dathip People with sight do not believe in the sun. We see it, we feel it, and, unless one is insane, it really can not be disputed. We know it exists, and there is scientific proof to confirm it, so it is not a matter of belief or faith. Only those without the ability for sight and physical feeling can be said to take it on faith. Reasoning can be faulty, but facts are infallible. One does not have faith in facts as they are most certainly mutually exclusive.

[SapienK]

@DreadedGuardian The blind can be fairly certain of the sun's nature through experimentation and observation. A blind man can feel its warmth, get a sunburn and touch objects that have been withered by its heat. A blind man can still sit in the shade, realizing that there is something high above. I don't have to see the wind to know it's there, to feel its effects. We do not have to physically observe the smallest of atoms to be reasonably certain of their existence -- or to manipulate them.

[Flowerblood]

@dathip No they don't. Faith is belief in the things unseen, and reason is based on what we know from evidence and research. Doy.

[yatter1]

Religion has had 2000 years to prove itself, it´s failed miserably, time for it to shut the fuck up.

[Nulono]

@yatter1 Religion is much older than that. :P

[xGHOSTR1DAx]

@yatter1 If I could give you two thumbs up, I would. I might as well make a second account now.

[zer0s0und]

"We need to have inoculation against plague, not the spread of gentler version of it"

.

Yes!!! Hitchens is great.

[TheDU777]

LOL "intelligence" can't save you from a holy GOD. "Well GOD don't judge me Im highly intelligent and lived my life my way, I'm special". Everybody has a GOD athiest main Gods are themselves or so-called intelligence.

[yatter1]

@TheDU777 Are you pretending to be that dumb, or are you serious??????

[waybec102]

Well read intelligence against soundbite re-invented and re-interpreted superstition I'll take any day. And yes, that means I'm in favour of Hitchens argument.

[henkvanderlaak]

I see they let Willy Wonka lead the show. Quite approriate. Only WW knew what he was doing. It's just sad to see this Rosenbaum struggle. My guess this is a one off and we won't see him trying this again soon.

[WOWJBEOWULF]

The Holy Bible is literature and gives lessons about the World and its troubles; the lesson is not you to puppet strings dominated by God, but in the World of choices what people do to each other as they find the realities of our lives. The Holy Bible is important and has moved men to liberty and truth, as the lessons of righteousness is in the World Of Evil, we can find truth & righteousness. God gives life, but upon God's Creation we rise and fall by our ability, there are lessons to know.

[WOWJBEOWULF]

The Holy Bible has two parts the Old Testament (Torah) that teaches the lesson of the Jews in the law and historical results, as real people make contact with life; the New Testament has Jesus Christ, and the historical results, as Christ said there is such thing as goodness, and you can find it when you repent your sinning ways, and there is such thing as evil that is the World. The historical results shows persecution by the World that is self-serving, a practice of wickedness, and evil.

[KiaOra53]

He's bloody brilliant.

[coreygames]

The Asian looking lady near the middle of the screen at the end was in very deep, chin-stroking contemplation. XD

[FeOKAlSi]

The saying "We sacrifice the intellect to God" is very very beautiful to me. The intellect is limited and cannot penetrate the super subjective world, in fact, sacrificing the intellect is a key pre requisite to entrance into transcendent reality. An atheist, unless they change, will never appreciate such a sublime concept. Hare Krishna.

[coreygames]

@FeOKAlSi

tl;dr

If you let yourself become insane, the world will appear magical

[FeOKAlSi]

@coreygames You say insane....St Francis said "Fools for God"....one who has realised the reality of God and the soul is ecstatic to be such a fool....one who hasn't realised that reality will not understand and will even mock. That's the way it has always been and will always be. But having once been without realisation of that reality, and now knowing such a reality to be...a reality, I know which i choose! :-D

[coreygames]

@FeOKAlSi

Which is insanity. That, what you just said, doesn't change the frightening idiocy of the original comment.

[FeOKAlSi]

@coreygames There is such a thing as 'Learned Ignorance' ...i.e. that one function of the intellect is to realise that the intellect is limited when it comes to understanding the infinite. One intelligently understands the limitations of ones intelligence. This is what is meant by sacrifice of ones intellect. All genuine saints know this sacrifice to be a pre requisite to gaining entrance into the plain of divine reality. It requires a degree of openness and humility that many just don't have.

[coreygames]

@FeOKAlSi

Realizing there is more to be known than you currently know is not equivalent to avoiding knowledge to remain superstitious and ignorant.

[FeOKAlSi]

I'm not talking of avoiding knowledge, I'm talking of realising the limit of all kinds of worldly knowledge that can be assimilated by the worldly intellect and then leaving this knowledge behind knowing it to have served its purpose. Then, by another more esoteric means you can enter into a higher plane knowledge, a plane that the worldly intellect cannot reach.

[coreygames]

@FeOKAlSi

Can you not see the irony and insanity of the statement, "Abandon your worldly intellect to attain knowledge of a higher level"?

[FeOKAlSi]

@coreygames You are probably thinking 'He just doesn't get it!' as I am also thinking, in regard to you, 'He just doesn't get it!' Ha ha..thats the way it will often be between the theist and the atheist. Let me try again: First thing is you have to be open to the possibility that there is a plane of existence that cannot be grasped fully by the limited (worldly) intellect, this is the first step, are you prepared to accept this much at least?If not, then I there is no point us continuing :)

[Acrimonator]

@FeOKAlSi i'm okay with your premice if you're okay to call this quantum level... ^^

[FeOKAlSi]

@Acrimonator Yes....quantum level...no problem....thats a start at least :)

[Acrimonator]

@FeOKAlSi ok, that would makes us deist, wich i've no problem with... Now personalizing god is another problem, particulary in a abrahamic sense of it...

[FeOKAlSi]

@Acrimonator personalising God is not a problem for me, although i don't mean in abrahamic sense of the word. If God is indeed infinite (for arguments sake) then why can't God have a personal aspect? of course, i don't mean 'personal' in the limited, earthly way that we understand that word.

[opaquetranslucence]

Nietzsche said " Gott ist tot". However, for the sake of simplicity, he could've easily just said, "Hitchens."

It would serve the same truthful purpose but be a syllable shorter.

[wild112233]

:-) Haha, right.

[opaquetranslucence]

just listen to the last line of this video and just TRY to tell me that the qu'ran or psalms have more poetic verse.

Hitchens is profoundly amazing.

[lepolemicist]

To be fair, I do think it is fair that any group, islamo-fascist or otherwise, has the right to boycott Danish products and exert financial presure upon another party, such as (say) how activist groups pressured Khartoum related companies to abandon the genocidal NIF in the wake of the Darfur genocide and 5 decades of strife in the South and in Korfodan.

[simsi1616]

wow. Hitchens is truly an unbeatable debater!

[vachief]

..The overwhelming majority of religious adherants are peace loving folk. Hitchens hates religion because it runs counter to his sexuality.

[jkqd14]

Whatever the hell that's supposed to mean...

[vachief]

...What do think it means?lol

[loader78sv]

You're statement refutes itself.

[vachief]

..Can you elaborate a little?

[ColbyPictures]

Jesus has nothing on Zeus.

[shieldsff]

what is increasingly evident about Hitchens s that the more he opines, the more obvious it is that he hasn't read, misinterprets and or is willfully ignorant of what the Bible actually teachs about Jesus in context. He make this clear in confusing what is actually said about virgin birth, Jesus as the Son , the resurrection , etc... He erroneously invokes the most reductive & broadest elements of these narratives- the Biblical account has massive critical distinctions

[sadtranz]

At last someone to put the religious bigot's in their place

[darkroommonster]

Hitch is hot!!

[Nades129]

rosenbaume... they were indoctrinated!

everyone loses themselves in fiction!

last time i was reading a novel, i couldnt but help drown in a fictional world

[hatuey860]

I love to see Hitchens, Dawkins or Maher. It's a breath of fresh air to see people divorce themselves from supernatural absurdities and promote and defend reason with such eloquence and vigor.

[Haaraskaba]

Same here, friend. It's always nice to see these kind of people shaking religious systems to the ground. I recommend Bill Maher's new documentary "Religilous". It's very good and funny.

[iversonmatthew]

@hatuey860 Amen!

[d00df00d]

@hatuey860 I saw Hitchens at the Philadelphia Free Library several weeks ago. Amazing experience.

[Romansteel13]

@hatuey860

Did you seriously just put Maher in the same intellectual league as Hitchens and Dawkins? That's the intellectual comparison of Spinoza and Descartes to an Ancient Siberian Troglodyte.

[Throred]

To blame the cartoons/cartoonist for the trouble they caused, is like blaming a matchstick for the fire it caused when thrown into a pool of gasolin. Certanly stupid and not very funny, but I say this:

The problem is not the matchstick, the problem is the pool filled up with gasolin. Under normal conditions the matchsticks fire would have died out immediatly after hitting the water. To say that the problem is blasphemy is ludicrous at best.

[kusalaviro]

Good point!

[leorcc]

I'm reading "God is not Great" at the moment, and together with his debating skills Hitchens is a religion killer to be sure.

[wudaolong]

Good stuff - stick it to em

[HitchensFavorite]

Christianity is political conservatism.

[WarVideo]

Christianity is socialism.

[Henw]

umm... wrong??

[WarVideo]

how

[jkqd14]

No, it SHOULD BE socialism. The present tense you used ignores the hypocrisy of so many self-professed Christians who ignore the words of their own Messiah.

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom." Some version of this appears in Matthew (19:23), Mark (10:24), and Luke (18:24), so I don't understand how so many people ignore it. So perhaps you're right to say "Christianity is socialism," but our Christians are no socialists.

[WarVideo]

"No, it SHOULD BE socialism"

Thats why im against christianity and socialism.

[Paddy234]

read catholic social teaching and distributism

[jkqd14]

There is indeed a strong (if very much minority) Left in the Catholic Church, and the things you mentioned -- I went to Jesuit high school, and we even had to read Rerum Novarum, the 1891 encyclical that started CST -- are pretty socialist. Liberation theology is even more overtly socialist.

But these do not represent the views of most Catholics let alone most Christians. The socialist/communist reading of Jesus is much truer to the scripture, I think. He obviously found private wealth obscene.

[cpynch]

According to the bible anyone who doesn't give all their possessions away can't go to heaven. lol

I hope there's no lineup for hell, I hate lines....

[DemokritosAbdera]

Jesuit preached to the poor and later became a very rich institution creating universities in latin america and banking institutions.

Preach to the poor, live like the rich its a good moto.

[FUZZYisBIG]

There is a difference between being generous with your welath by choice and being forced to by others. Jesus did not find personal wealth obscene, he would have found greed obscene. Someone can be rich, and can still be generous.

But perhaps a true reading is more aligned with communism, Both religion and communism are totalitarian concepts after all.

[wild112233]

You must not be from the US. Here, Christianity is capitalism - the party that most supports the Christian right wing, is also the most capitalist (which means against universal health insurance).

They are also most rabidly for any kind of war, but that too is a Christian virtue.

[FUZZYisBIG]

The Christian Right is an authoritarian movement, for rhetorical and political purposes they may oppose something lie healthcare, but over all having control over other people in a similar way does not go against.

Second, you demonstrate a severe lack of understanding of the difference between corpratism and capitalism. What you currently have in the US is a corpratist system.

I am not from the US, yet I seem to understand her politics better than its citizens.

[wild112233]

And corpratism means what? Do give a wikipedia link, since the word does not seem to exist there. Nor did it exist in my studies of economics, but then hey, you seem to be far more educated in economics and politics. So do correct me.

[TuPaCaLyPsE1872]

religion is slavery

[johnw456]

hitchens is such a nwo whore.

[wild112233]

Ah, your Christ-like argument is so very convincing.

[johnw456]

@wild112233

Thank you.

[umovelikehoney]

I would have hitchens babies.

[babner]

i like honey

[umovelikehoney]

yeah its yummm

[Ceolfrin]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, honey

[umovelikehoney]

honey+biscuts

[greenegage]

What's he lying about exactly?

[Nulono]

@greenegage Who said who was lying?

[greenegage]

@Nulono I can't remember the details now. Ages ago someone was ranting on about Hitchens being a liar and asked the question I did so I could ascertain exactly what the commenter was objecting to. I received no reply I'm afraid!

[valerienanh]

hitchens is a liar- logic arguments and false premises as usual-

[deadacc29343]

This is why, even within theological circles, the defense of religion can most precisely be termed, "apologetics."

[WhodiKalecgos]

Absolutely incredible.

[thruthem]

The Hitch is bulletproof!

[johnw456]

if he is bulletproof give me a loaded gun and lets see what happens:)

[no1hoopsman]

@thruthem ......That's because he advocates sending other peoples kids to War of course, no chance of him donning a flak jacket to fight the war he supports

[thruthem]

@no1hoopsman The wi required wine rations alone make that scenario implausible,

[no1hoopsman]

@thruthem ...LOL...I know, he thought the black liquid was wine...not oil

[glwq237]

@no1hoopsman so what if he supports the war? So do the governments of many nations ie NATO. The fact that he isnt in the army means he cant be an advocate of it? Get real. Anybody who wishes to enlist in the army does so at their own risk and at the behest of the government with which they are affiliated. He is entitled to his opinion on the validity of war in the same way that you are entitled to yours and I mine.

[no1hoopsman]

@glwq237 ...Absolutely right, he is entitled to his opinion, I just wonder if he would support the war if he had to fight...this is the point. He gave up on the support for waterboarding after trying it for himself...maybe he might do the same with fighting.

[slimithy12]

@thruthem the hitch is a smarmy cunt. its easy to lay into religion, a 10 year old could do it. this guy gets so much pleasure from moking other peoples faith and making smart comments which have little to no points, he does it just so he can hear the audiance laugh and get them on his side, is he a comidian or an intellectual? i dont think there is human alive who enjoys the sound of their own voice more then this fat alcholic.

[glwq237]

@slimithy12 your comments about Hitch are fair enough but if it is as easy as you say then why are people still blindly following Bronze Age tribal ritual? I have to say, that I'd rather listen to, in your words, a smarmy, fat, alcoholic comedian that likes the sound of his own voice than a 1000 hypocritical child molesters or the like, because many are a far worse class of human being than Christopher Hitchens.He's maintaining the balance and as far as Im concerned,he's doing a pretty good job

[ElGeneral09]

That last part, it was incredible, Hitchens is just awesome.

[greenegage]

This was actually a response to a video by an all-american religious nut under the title 'Don't Treat the Bible Like You Treat Food or Art'. The response wasn't approved I notice.

[zoxovox]

Hitchen's at his best.

[trocknickel]

it get harder and harder to conduct intellegent debates vs. religious apologists where the morals and the fabels so consistantly run into each other head long. To respect thy father, even when he's going to sacrifice you..