No one I my groups "used the same thing" or "cast the same spells" because we "role played" we created our own spells and weapons and working with the DM, fit them into his world. Every character I ran was completely different than any other of mine or any of my friends. The only limit in any RPG is your own imagination and creativity.
It's too bad you don't understand the premise behind role playing games. If you had a clearer understanding you'd know that the "outdated" version of D&D is what sounds like you want. In AD&D 1st or 2nd edition there were no rules accept the ones the DM and the group made up as they went along. Anything in a TSR book was simply a guideline to give you an example or an idea to build upon.
While I completely agree with most of what you say here, I do have to say I did play a single classed fighter until about level 10. The only multi-class option I had considered was the rogue for some bonus sneak attack damage. While my armor class was not super high, my greats word wielding Fighter was an absolute monster when it came to damage, able to crit on a 17-20 and with maybe a buff or two being able to hit the massive damage mark. =)
That ridiculous version of d&d is finally being replaced by that commercial fomorian giant WOTC : just as so many of us predicted. !!! Debate over! GAME, SET AND MATCH!
This is debatable. There are situations where a nonmagic class is far more useful than a spellcaster. If we are going to talk about pure power, I dare to say that sometimes, if given the right books(complete series of books), while nonmagic classes don't outshine spellcasters, they are still amazingly powerful. Take a frenzied berserker for example, or bear warrior, or a dwarven defender who is an unmovable fortress.
The XP penalty when being ressurected is logical and fair. You have died and there has to be some kind of punishment.
About the magic items, the cost a lot of XP because you put your magic(or a part of your being) inside of an item. It is not an easy task to preform and it is one that every spellcaster must go trough. It is pure logic. If you put a part of yourself into something, then you lose that part of yourself.
After watching this, I must say that you have made some good points, but I feel that you have forced yourself to find bad things about 3,5.
Point 1: Everybody uses the same stuff
Not really. The 3,5 offers tons of different spell combinations. Sure, there are a few spells that you must use, but I have DMed for 6 years and I have seen tons of different spellcasters who used tons of different spells.
i have never playd D&D, mainly cause theres no norwegians playing it, as far as i know, but i have heard about it and it sounds amazing. but i got to ask, is it hard to learn and get used to? and what would i need to be able to play it?
somebody call the whambulance for this guy, i had to stop the video, i couldn't take it anymore. 3.5 everybody does the same thing? are you high? yes much of the spells overlap, but not every party member or encountered creature are going to be magical, especially at lower levels, and party roles are vastly different from class to class. also, of course magic item creation costs xp, it need some kind of counterbalance. also magic item creation isn't nearly as hard as you're making it out to be.
also talking about everyone doing the same thing, i want you to really give a good look at the effects of the powers used by each class (and one rules set fits all) everyone gains the same amount of powers that do relatively the same effects and everyone's going to end up spamming their at wills anyway. rituals are fucking stupid, power are fucking stupid, tests are fucking stupid, SAVES (the way they work in 4th) ARE THE MOST STUPID IDEA I'VE HEARD OF FOR AN RPG. just play pathfinder.
An arcane spell caster can get an average damage up to about 10/rnd. The warrior type classes can get their damage up to avg. 15/rnd, augmented by BAB
@Blastodermic WRONG AGAIN - been playing d&d since 89. Balance & fun require plausibility.
Healing surges are fanciful. Quick healing is province of magic; OR cartoons.
Magic users are integral to d&d but exact classes use in session depends on the scenario. Editions wars ARE dumb - compared to 0-3.5 ed, 4e is NOT a new edition, it's a new game - and a poor specimen of a superhero genre game compared to other RPGs out there. Hopefully WOTC lose the brand one day like TSR did, and PAIZO buys it!
@everman111 go to a gaming store, talk to ppl, try their games especially earlier editions of D&D - the recent 4th ed is not a representation of real D&D - its more like a computer game than a tabletop RPG
@everman111 First watch Chris Perkins' celebrity DnD PAX game. it'll give you an idea for what a session looks like. Then if it looks fun try to find a DnD encounters game near you at a local game store and drop in for a session or two. Then decide if you want to DM or Play. Send me a PM and I'll help you from there. :)
Hm, I'm an older generation D&D devotee and a DM that has ushered a lot of new faces under the auspices of tabletop RP. Among my peers I was the only voice of acceptance for 4th edition. My basic argument being "Look, how can you judge an edition without first having given it a whirl?" I've been playing D&D since '86 and since that start, I've played the editions through the years as they've come.
i've only played 2nd edition and the books are addictive. it's like one can't have enough of them. back in highschool i had: phb, mm, dmg, monstrous compedium w/the norse dragons, mystara monstrous comp., cb of fighters, thieves, gnomes, elves, dwarves, wizards etc.. to make it short i had over $500 worth of books. the sad thing was i didn't have many friends who played dnd and it sucked because i wasted all that money for nothing.
I had similar thoughts about 4th edition after a few months of playing it but after another year I ran a pathfinder 1 shot and never looked back. I would love to see a revew from you on Pathfinder.
well, i actually like the idea of every1 use the same rule, JRPG is famous for the different rules for pc and npc, those boss monsters has abilities to slash your life to 1 point or instant kill most of your characters (FF series) and i feel it is kind of like cheating
oh dear gods this man is so full of shit, 4th ed is not change for the better, can your 4th ed fighter craft his own weapons? can your 4th ed wizard fail to cast a spell and not blow himself to pieces? can your 4th ed barbarian cleave through 10 enemies at 6th level before the wizard has a chance to cast fireball? 3.5 can. you shmuck!
Wow... Pathfinder... Why do they even give it another name than Dungeons and Dragons? I thought they were pretty like in game mechanics... But that's a simple ripoff... How come WotC haven't sued them to death?
My favourite class is Monk, and I have read up on it in 4th Ed, but I haven't compared it with other classes...
I'd like to comment on what you said about the classes of 3.5, as I feel the Monk is different from all the other. Well, yeah, it deals damage (insane amounts of damage) and it doesn't cast spells. But still, you can't replicate a Monk in any way. A monk can play massive offender, massive defender and an extremely good scout. All at once.
@Tirinol Well, I've seen a bit more on 4th ed, and it seems to be very good :-) The monk still has mobility advantages, but one of the things I liked the most, was that incredible speed you get, and that awsome damage in 3.5, these loopholes aren't there in 4th ed. Still, I must say I seem to like the 4th ed concept better, it seems way more balanced all over, even though that means monks are now good at what they do, but not out of proportions ;-P
And it is anti-spellcaster, anti-tank and anti-groups, all at once.
I made a Girallon Monk CR11 dealing 6x12d8+7 per hit, 42AC, 152HP, run speed of 500ft pr round (without Boots of Speed, climbing speed of 100ft), Sunder +27, Grapple +39, Disarm +31, Jump +45, Hide and Move silently +16.
On top of this, it has Improved Evasion, top on all kinds of saving throws, lowest being 10, and it's always armed, and threath 15 ft.
On top of it all, this is no homerules. It's almost only corebooks, but two-three things brought from some non-campaign extra books.
I also made a Human Monk, almost the same, just not THAT awsome.
IMO, that in a very huge degree opens up for a very own type of gameplaying, which totally distinguish it from all other classes :-) IMO, the Monk is totally underrated :-) The speed, evasion, and all these extremes makes it a totally different experience to play than any other meele or spellcaster.
I've been playing 3.5 as a DM also, maybe not as much as you did, but I had that same feeling that classes were unbalanced, and some of them where basically the same., and i'll pass on details concerning some rules (items creations...) You explain it very well, keep the good work :p
@smithtommi It's interesting that they opened up some new design space, and made some builds that appeal a bit more to both newcomers and players of older editions. Though many of the essentials classes are very thematic and well-written,, my players and I don't use a great deal of Essentials stuff. We prefer a deeper level of complexity with character building.
OMG!! did I gewt the wrong edition? my box doesnt have any edition on it and its read and it looks kind of old... Do I have 1st edition... plz dont tell me I do cuz I paid 20 bucks -.- and only 4 classes to begin with
@OrkSlayer156 You got the red box, which was originally released in 1983. It was reprinted for people who wanted to get into 4th edition D&D. You got the right product. In fact, one of the best products. Its essentially a starter set.
I see you know absolutely nothing of how to play a non-caster.
Combat tricks? Don't need 'em!
Manoeuvres? Don't need 'em!
Optimized feat selection? What the heck's that?
Tactics? Teamwork? Aid Another action? Never heard of it!
Wiz/Sor "I am the Caster! I is teh ubers!"
Fgt "That's nice. How's your endurance? Can you fight in an anti-magic field? Against an Abjuration specialist? How about in a storm? I hear those Concentration checks are a bitch. Can you fight while mounted?"
I love your Bearded Devil maneuvers. Though you did this awhile ago and I watched it then, watching it again was a real pleasure. Your vids blow me away. Very talented on many levels.
my dnd group plays 3.5 and do to modefeid rules its really fun! lol im the only cleric out of 16 people and no ones deid plus they were around with no cleric months before... i guess im sayin 3.5 can be good if u help it be better and i also play fourth editon and i think they are even or 3.5 might be better
@Blastodermic Yes in 3.5 if you want to heal faster than daily rate you need magic, I don't expect self-indulgent kids to understand that, too used to computer game play. I know the 4e rules; 4e rules say you can spend a healing surge after a rest, which is 5 minutes; that's regeneration dumbass. Wanna understand the HP 'abstraction'? Try throwing yourself of a 2 story building and see if you are back to 100% after 4x5 minutes, 20 minutes. Your system is a cartoon game and a joke of a RPG.
@Blastodermic I played 4th when it first came out and discovered they allowed everyone to regenerate 25% of their HP every 5 minutes, almost like Trolls do. You can bash the hell out of someone with baseball bats down to single digit HP, and 20 minutes later they are fine. I agree magic is needed for Healing. Spending gold on potions, scrolls, or items for healing is a great way to consume GP and keep treasure searching. In the 3.5 MiniaturesHB, they have the Healer class. Great PC or Henchman.
and one memory refreshment: I was playing DS a while ago, and we had three mages in the group. Yes, it was 2ND E, even less "customizable". But, with few sparks of imagination, all three mages were radically different, used completely different spells. One of them couldn't cast evocation spells at all, he was enchanter, and gues what - he was kicking ass with Hold monster and similar spells.
Ok, every edition had some flaws. I played both 2nd and 3rd E many times. Yes, generally, the game is evolving and every E is better and better. However, while 3.5E has almost endless ways of customizing you char, seriously. Yes, basics of classes are the same most of the time, but these similarities are making classes what they are. Q: So how to make a difference? A: races, multiclasses, weapon choices, skills, backgrounds, prestige classes, spells...
m8. i'm playing a single campaign like 3 yrs now... as a barbarian. right now i'm an important person (wood-elf. xD) in the world. what you say about the 3.5e and 4e are all true. like the barbarian's single attack... and that's not he thing i do not like. in dnd 3.5e they say that barbarian is the killing machine, witch means a lot of dmg. How about this.... at lvl 1 i can 1shot any mage with my single attack. and at 20 lvl any mage can 1shot me with a single spell...
In the first Video Podcast of the Robot Chicken crew playing D&D with Chris Perkins, the creative director of Dungeons & Dragons, said creative director pronounces the word "Drow" like "how" or "now". I will stick to believing that the creative director of Wizards of the Coast kind of knows how to pronounce this word.
repsesper & Blastodermic (and anyone else into 4th ed) PLEASE do look at this guys video, he has aptly and eloquently summed up 4th ed complaints in a detailed yet entertaining way:(search: Fourth Edition D&D is terrible (part III of III) user: lindybeige)
@Blastodermic "Yes clearly a guardian fighter plays exactly the same way ... run it well." - there is widespread complaint around the web 4e is too standardised, classes are samey and boring.
"At least every class ... do nothing else" Fighters & thieves have HEAPS variety, with feats & classes in 3.5 allowing so much customisation "Healing surges .. runs out" It's juvenile to complain about healing responsibilities. Pain, damage and healing are part of battle & war. 4e encourages 'Respawning'
I have been DMing since before you were born I expect and I have a big group that make time, even take time off work to play. Yes I don't play childishly.
Powergaming is easily nurfed by a good DM. The last powergamer I had was overpowered and arrested by LN city guard after he behaved like a child picking fights - In actual dungeons they stripped and humiliated him, then left him to rot at the Gaoler's mercy in a prison warded by anti-planar/teleportation spells. In the real world abilities and technological items are 'imbalanced' (e.g. d20 modern), but in the end, balance occurs - there is no need to do so artificially like 4e
4th ed is standardised, bland, and boring, I tried running it when it came back and gave up when I realised everyone had the same abilities, just with different aesthetic. What also struck me was the silliness of everyone having regeneration, A.K.A healing surges, where characters can spend as many as they want after 5 minutes to heal all their damage. Absolute nonsense.
Reference 200 million years: Wikipedia, Crocodile - check it. 'Changed little since the time of the dinosaurs' is the quote; so many 4th ed fanboys are dummkopf's that rant before they research.
@Blastodermic I do think you are wrong, 3.5 isn't only for power-gamers, I tried 4e, and have played 4e for about 6 to 8 months now, and I really don't see the appeal. I really think you got the short end of the stick when you picked your DM in 3.5, because I have never, EVER, had a party who solely relied on power gaming. No matter what version you are playing, it all boils down to preference, and the people you play with. So in effect, all versions are "True D&D"
You say that everything is "this" or everyone "uses this" for 3.5, but i didn't hear you saying that for 4.0 ... Since... Ya know... That's the biggest gripe i've been hearing about on EVERY single forum i've read talking about 3.5 to 4.0, that you can't nearly customize your characters as intricately as you used to. And along with the mainstreaming of combat where it essentially boils down to nursing the player along with per-encounter healing surges and per-encounter combat abilities.
About Multiclassing, i've done pure barbarian classes before and they DO NOT go down easy, especially with their unusually high fortitude saves. God help you if they have magical items which grant them spell resistance.
I also think your completely dead wrong about Spellcasters vs Nonspellcasters argument. First of all, you are better at making trip, grapple, bullrush, disarming, fight defensively, flank, feinting, and not to mention, Attack of oppurtunity was DESIGNED for melee fighters. Should i also mention the crazy amount of exclusive melee abilities the monk has (who also gains spell resistance!)? Besides, most of the feats are for melee classes anyway.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.... Are you actually COMPLAINING, that there are penalties for dieing? What, are you just suggesting that dieing should just be made into a little slap on the wrist? Or how about we make it like in Bioshock how you just come walking right out of a nearby vitachamber with no penalties at all? When i first started playing i was flabbergasted at how easy it was to come back to life, where i initially thought you had to restart another character from scratch.
Actually, Clerics, druids, paladins, rangers, and bards all have unique spells (sure they may share a few), the only list that really is copied verbatim is the sorcerer/wizards spells, but it offers two completely different play styles for each. So no, everybody DOESN'T use the same stuff, and if they do, you can use spells in different ways (atleast the fun DM's allow you to) for instance burning down a forest with fire spells, freezing a pond with an ice spell, yadda yadda.
Ive DMed 3.5 for 8 years and what you say about it is nonsense. 4th ed is Unpopular. Lots of people hate it so much because it is so different from traditional D&D it is so unlike any of the other editions. Enormous amounts of people want 4th edition to die in the ass and Hasbro to dump D&D. Such unpopularity is unprecedented in RPG's. If WOTC retain D&D they will inevitably go to 5th ed so all the fanboism will transfer to the next ed, but remember now how you argued for 4th ed.
@Blastodermic 3.5 is classic and 8 years is not 'ancient' except to a child. WTF nonsense quote? "The entire system was built around rules lawyering and only power gamers at the end of the day clung on to the system." - gross generalisation. High level fighters can kill a wizard faster than a 4th ed fanboy can say "Im WOTC lemming". Im playing 3.5 and like MANY others feel betrayed by marketing people and the sycophants . Will you dump your 4th ed books for 5th ed next year? Or just use PDF's?
(an imbalanced mechanical system with different abilities and items is balanced by a good DM's roleplaying - e.g a Munchkin killing machine character who causes trouble is quickly arrested, stripped naked, manacled with enchanted metal and hosed down by jailers in a 'proper' dungeon in a city)
@Blastodermic - Rubbish! 3.5 is great as is, it didnt need to be 'updated' that is just WOTC marketing propaganda to sell a new system!
4th ed is drab and boring as it doesnt matter what class you play, it all is standardized with the same mechanical abilities for a power, whether combat or magic, the aesthetics are just different. The problem with 'Balance' = 'boring'.
@Blastodermic - Rubbish! 3.5 is great as is, it didnt need to be 'updated' that is just WOTC marketing propaganda to sell a new system!
4th ed is drab and boring as it doesnt matter what class you play, it all is standardized with the same mechanical abilities for a power, whether combat or magic, the aesthetics are just different. The problem with 'Balance' = 'boring'.
"You're just expecting an complete change which doesn't have to be the case if the crocodile doesn't need to." 3.5 is more similar to 1st & 2nd ed (which I also love and own) than 4th.
It does'nt have to completely change, unless WOTC want people to buy all the books again. I only just finished completing my 3.5 collection this year - they can go to hell if they expect me to buy more of their products and all they have is 4th ed pulp.
What makes D&D 1E and 2E outdated? The design principles are just as valid now as they were back then. There is a reason that there are multiple throw back games designed for those gamers. Reading a rulebook isn't the same as playing the game.
This was good. I liked it. I enjoy 4e. Thank you for sharing this. Know that there is a fan here. You're awesome, so i'm subcribing. Keep up the good work, and again, thank you.
Be a fanboy of 4th ed all you like but don't put down earlier editions without having experience of them, as it betrays a facile egoism. All editions of the game are valid, and 4th ed is just one RPG in a constellation of RPgaming - but it is by no means 'the best' I can assure you after 25 years of reading different RPG's. 4th ed is little more than a low-complexity superhero type game (which is fine for some players) but even within D&D, it is not the best version ever officially supported.
(PS I will leave on a nice note) to help you DM-roleplay demons and devils. These beings have always been mortal-centric, which means they must revolve around the machinations of mortals, being either directly or indirectly summoned by them, and met or used in a way where the mortal seeks power, promotes violence, or some other vice. They are not "Mario Bro's Monsters" to stick you 'magic sword' into - their success over man must always be due to the weakness of men, such as greed, wrath, etc.
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I tried skipping a little ahead, but when you did the flawed logic of 'everything changes' and used computer games to support your theory, then made a WRONG statement about evolution, I did come close to wanting to see you in a pool with a Crocodile a species THAT HAS NOT CHANGED IN 200 MILLION YEARS - I can only go back to saying you need to play in an experienced DM's group in a game that is many years old to really learn how to Roleplay D&D.
@saturncancer Everything does always change. That is a fundamental trait of existence. The evolution analogy is precisely pertinent in this case, as human-made systems are always being refined and redefined. And come on guy, the crocodile is a rare case, and you know that.
What's with you talking about me being in a pool with a crocodile? Why would you say that? I run this channel to encourage, inspire, and entertain people. If you are personally in pain or sick, don't take it out on me.
I'm fine, It was a joke about the pool and crocodile.
Your loyalty to 4th ed is obvious but you have just failed Debating101 by admitting that there is at least one species that hasn't changed sicne it developed perfection, The Crocodile. Add another, the great white shark - that one is at least 16 million years old. Best to drop the 'everything changes' argument.
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@repsesper ok I'm sorry but I'm finally brining this up. Drow should be pronounced like Dr-oh. vowel/consinant/vowel mothafucka. you just got grammar arrested
@Luiginerd I've actually had a question featured on the D&D podcast regarding the pronunciation of several "D&D words", including drow, which rhymes with "now". In the end, a gaming group can pronounce it the way that they prefer. We're not going for a doctorate in fantasy vocabulary here. Maybe you should be careful before being so rude next time.
@repsesper I think I know exactly what you mean. Of course, I have heard what the "official" pronunciation of "tiefling" is, but for some reason I can't get the (unofficial) pronunciation "TIFE-ling" out of my head.
'A lot' means what? The Crocodile is essentially the same as prehistoric fossils, with minor differences over millions of years. The change from 3.5 to 4th ed was not minor, and it happened too quickly (less than 1 decade compared to the shift from 1st-2nd-3rd...It was clearly to entice Fanboy-fools to buy all the new junk and lap it up as the only D&D worth playing. BTW make sure you stand by your crappy-boring-standardized edition when 5th comes out!
@RampantWolf - you are so far from the truth it is really stupid. How you get god-freak from my submission of evolution as evidence shows a level of dim wit that is astonishing. NO I am not a christian.
Where to go from here: Sorry, but I've given up listening to you at 10 minutes: What you need young man, is to play under the GM's auspices of an experienced gamer in his or her 40's that has played 1st&2nd ed - perhaps 3rd too, as well as a plethora of other RPG's, so they can teach you about the wisdom behind running a game. I suggest you go find a historic wargaming Grognard in your home town and ask to play in their group's current campaign.
Defending 3.5: XP to create items: one of the best innovations of 3.5, using 'xp' is the akin to using 'life force' and is a great natural limit to the 'made in china' feel around magic items that has cropped up so often in many games, including MMORPG's. Magic Items should be treated like works of Art - they should take some of the artists 'soul' to create, and explain why artists often have so many colourful lives (many experiences, much XP).
@saturncancer This makes no sense. There is no prominent system of "spending life force" in D&D. The reason in 3e that some spells require XP, as does magic item creation, is because the game designers were trying to balance the mechanics. They didn't have any better ideas at the time. Now they do- you don't spiritually vaporize your soul to make a +1 battleaxe. And more importantly, gamers don't want to waste away their own XP- duh!
@repsesper NO - it makes perfect sense - Since the beginning of D&D, spells like Permanency have required some loss of 'vital energy' to help ensure magic item creation is treated seriously. Artists DO invest of themselves in their creations, just because some gamers whinge they have lost some XP means the system is WORKING to create a natural limit on item creation - my (and other players) understand - you should try being strict with your players and actually force them to have a penalty!
@repsesper If you talk to Artists, young man, and listen when they say about 'inspiration' you will realise that they cannot 'churn out items' They often have erratic inspiration and erratic spates of artistic creation - all analogous to XP being available to spend; AND many do talk about putting their 'heart and soul' into their art! You obviously subscribe to the 'made in china' feel about magic items; In a proper game +1 battleaxes ARE special ! Sentimental! Not easily 'discarded' for +2 !!!
@saturncancer Again, if you actually knew me, you'd feel so foolish for saying these things. I am an artist, a writer, and a musician (which is no secret- if you could take the time to actually observe my body of work). Creativity flows from me like a river in Corellon's forest because I remain open to inspiration at all times, and I have the fire of passion inside. You can't simply assert that every craftsman in a fantasy world suffers from erratic inspiration and fickle passion.
Fair point. XP is literally a measure of 'experience' and someone who invests work with it makes it unique and special - hence magical. The rules for spending XP provide an excellent limit on item creation. Furthermore, in the 3.5DMG 'power components' are mentioned. SO with a little extra work a DM can devise rules for XP costs reduced with power components eg for a Fireball wand, Efreeti dust is worth more than Salamander; human sacrifice for evil, or relics for good items, etc
Defending 3.5: Familiars. Yes the loss of one is hard- Ever been in love? ever lost that love due to a tragedy? Ever had that cherished friend suddenly tragically gone? Evidently not or you would understand the need to embed a serious penalty in to make the bond precious. TSK TSK - the folly of youth
@saturncancer Oh my gosh, are you trolling? You have no idea what I have been through in my life, and exactly how deeply I've loved or how terribly I've suffered. How degrading.
@repsesper Yes I am annoyed that you mocked the loss around familiars because you are advocating that there should be no penalties for their loss. Someone who understood loss would understand there should be one - if you don't like 'trolling' and 'degrading' peoples attachments to their animal companions please delete this section from your spiel (I have one Pagan G/F who calls her Cat her 'familiar' and was devastated when she lost her prior one 5 years ago in a car accident)
Defending 3.5: Similar Spells: The similar spells in the PHB reflect a similar building basis - just like a similar armour and weapons table can be used for a Historically accurate Arthurian game to a Fantastic Eberron setting. These again are the tools, not the end in itself - its the way the spells are deployed that matter - but by all means, renaming them to specific cultures is appropriate (eg Detect Magic becomes 'Arcane Vision' etc)
The mature DM understand religion and philosophy. Time for you to read up on your cosmology in the real world, the nature of balance, grace, karma, an get out of the childish gamer mentality that is the reason you find fault in the systems - as a poor craftsman finds fault in the tools.
@saturncancer If you actually knew me personally, you would feel so silly for saying that. I am not going to sit here and try to prove myself as spiritually valid on a YouTube comment. This is a video about a game.
@repsesper Demons and Devils are spiritual denizens, not 'a species', and it makes perfect sense that they can teleport at will. Your diatribe about this is sorrowfully nieve, all I can say is that you need to read some occult - start with Solomon's Key or the Goetia, to help you understand their play (I do have sympathy as when I was young I treated them as 'Big Monsters' too instead of giving them the special treatment they deserve)
Defending 3.5: Greater Teleport: Yes Demons and Devils should have this. Your examples demonstrate an immature understanding of the way these outsiders exist - they are part of a hierachy, including Celestials. If a Bearded Devil went 'poof I'm coming to pee on your bedroom floor' it would be eliminated down to Lemure level, if it were lucky, as the omniscient gods would no doubt sent an angel to clean up the mess instantly - which would provoke the ire of its particular lord of Hell.
@saturncancer I think you are missing the humor intended in this segment (and souring it as well). The exaggeration serves to illustrate the illogical and awkward cosmology set forth by allowing an entire superspecies to be able to warp around the multiverse at-will.
@repsesper Demons and Devils are not a Species - they are NOT living things. They are souls of mortals damned, and that you still don't understand how they can interact in the cosmos is OK as you are clearly young and still a newbie at DMing mature game worlds, but if you read some theology it will become clearer.
Quote"Ive never played 1st or 2nd ed" but its ARCHAIC - WTF? AS soon as you judge another edition as 'worse than my favourite edition' then you are just a gumby caught in the edition flame wars. ALL editions of the game have their merits - ARCHAIC is synonymous with CLASSICAL - an ephemeral tech-toy generation with its gamepop whimsy that cannot see the virtues in historical constructs is childish, simpleminded, and ignorant - then doomed to have history repeat when their game too gets older.
@saturncancer Saying that 1e and 2e are outdated isn't disrespectful, I'm merely stating a fact. I only need to read through the source material and mechanics to recognize that improvements have since been made, and the gaming community has moved on.
I have quite an interest in history and world culture/religion- from barbarian europe, to feudal Japan, to the native americans. I feel that modern innovation (technological or social), without the context set by history, is ultimately shallow.
@repsesper "I'm merely stating a fact." - vanity of youth. Your opinion is just that, and these older systems are far more satisfying to play than the 'WOW computer game' style of 4th ed (which I tried running for a few sessions) For SOME PEOPLE. Please STOP judging previous editions, it makes anything you say in defense of 4th sound puerile.
The fact that you don't even recognize the distinction between 1st and 2nd edition (Advanced) D&D and the line of Original D&D, Holmes Basic, Moldvay/Cook B/X, Mentzer BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia shows your lack of understanding about older editions.
AD&D, I'll agree with you, is clunky, Baroque, and (possibly) obsolete. Non-advanced D&D, however, offers a streamlined, rules-light approach that both AD&D and newer editions lack.
i take that all back..your such a newbie..upon firther watching..you have no idea what it is to actually face monsters that make your character shit himself. lol
@Hushashabega it has ALWAYS been an option, that is the thing. he says 3.5 is archaic because it is not rock solid rules, but then again no pen and paper is rock solid. if ya don't like something, change it. that is why when 5.0 comes out..the 4.0 people will be confused. It will be soon too, when that comes out. Hasbro doesn't like losing money to pathfinder.
But some of your poinst are valid..the spell list is broken...but that is the case with both 3.5, pathfinder and 4th edition. bring back the spell spheres and a complete list of arcane spells..that is a 2nd editon thing
@8.00 you lost a level and can't get it back. Why not? just pay for a restoration spell!
geeksqrd 2 weeks ago
No one I my groups "used the same thing" or "cast the same spells" because we "role played" we created our own spells and weapons and working with the DM, fit them into his world. Every character I ran was completely different than any other of mine or any of my friends. The only limit in any RPG is your own imagination and creativity.
jerseyj2 2 weeks ago
It's too bad you don't understand the premise behind role playing games. If you had a clearer understanding you'd know that the "outdated" version of D&D is what sounds like you want. In AD&D 1st or 2nd edition there were no rules accept the ones the DM and the group made up as they went along. Anything in a TSR book was simply a guideline to give you an example or an idea to build upon.
jerseyj2 2 weeks ago
"so unless your a trilobite living in a cave..." I had a rather good chuckle :D
koopaatroopa 3 weeks ago
@2:30 why?
cowboyx1970 1 month ago
Lol. Ima stabbin ya grandma! Best d n d channel fa sho.
BigAndLovinIt2432 1 month ago
I just played D&D 3.5 using World of Orfel setting ......... A W E S O M E
arajuiojuo 1 month ago
While I completely agree with most of what you say here, I do have to say I did play a single classed fighter until about level 10. The only multi-class option I had considered was the rogue for some bonus sneak attack damage. While my armor class was not super high, my greats word wielding Fighter was an absolute monster when it came to damage, able to crit on a 17-20 and with maybe a buff or two being able to hit the massive damage mark. =)
Wallheadofbutter 1 month ago
I haven't played RPGs in roughly 20 years. I would really like to get into a low fantasy game, with a more "natural", less flashy type of magic.
Antiks72 1 month ago
Change the rules if you don't like them.
Antiks72 1 month ago
That ridiculous version of d&d is finally being replaced by that commercial fomorian giant WOTC : just as so many of us predicted. !!! Debate over! GAME, SET AND MATCH!
saturncancer 1 month ago
Is there rules for magic item creation in 4e edition ?
MrMelick 1 month ago
@MrMelick Yes
repsesper 1 month ago
@repsesper What are your thoughts on 5th edition being announced?
JoonStudios 1 month ago
@JoonStudios I'll have a video on it soon.
repsesper 1 month ago
@repsesper
Point 3: Spellcasters vs nonmagic casters
This is debatable. There are situations where a nonmagic class is far more useful than a spellcaster. If we are going to talk about pure power, I dare to say that sometimes, if given the right books(complete series of books), while nonmagic classes don't outshine spellcasters, they are still amazingly powerful. Take a frenzied berserker for example, or bear warrior, or a dwarven defender who is an unmovable fortress.
TOMNOTSOCRUIS 1 month ago
@repsesper
Point 2: I'm coming for your XP
The XP penalty when being ressurected is logical and fair. You have died and there has to be some kind of punishment.
About the magic items, the cost a lot of XP because you put your magic(or a part of your being) inside of an item. It is not an easy task to preform and it is one that every spellcaster must go trough. It is pure logic. If you put a part of yourself into something, then you lose that part of yourself.
TOMNOTSOCRUIS 1 month ago
@repsesper
After watching this, I must say that you have made some good points, but I feel that you have forced yourself to find bad things about 3,5.
Point 1: Everybody uses the same stuff
Not really. The 3,5 offers tons of different spell combinations. Sure, there are a few spells that you must use, but I have DMed for 6 years and I have seen tons of different spellcasters who used tons of different spells.
TOMNOTSOCRUIS 1 month ago
I've never played 2nd and up. D&D now is like a band with the only original member is the drummer.
Diabolik771 1 month ago
I like 2 Edition
lostemomane 2 months ago
I like 2
lostemomane 2 months ago
i have never playd D&D, mainly cause theres no norwegians playing it, as far as i know, but i have heard about it and it sounds amazing. but i got to ask, is it hard to learn and get used to? and what would i need to be able to play it?
xXZombiFreakXx 3 months ago
somebody call the whambulance for this guy, i had to stop the video, i couldn't take it anymore. 3.5 everybody does the same thing? are you high? yes much of the spells overlap, but not every party member or encountered creature are going to be magical, especially at lower levels, and party roles are vastly different from class to class. also, of course magic item creation costs xp, it need some kind of counterbalance. also magic item creation isn't nearly as hard as you're making it out to be.
exaveron 3 months ago
also talking about everyone doing the same thing, i want you to really give a good look at the effects of the powers used by each class (and one rules set fits all) everyone gains the same amount of powers that do relatively the same effects and everyone's going to end up spamming their at wills anyway. rituals are fucking stupid, power are fucking stupid, tests are fucking stupid, SAVES (the way they work in 4th) ARE THE MOST STUPID IDEA I'VE HEARD OF FOR AN RPG. just play pathfinder.
exaveron 3 months ago 2
@Blastodermic It's always great to have a 5/5 shroud on my side!
repsesper 3 months ago
An arcane spell caster can get an average damage up to about 10/rnd. The warrior type classes can get their damage up to avg. 15/rnd, augmented by BAB
nowyouareazombie 3 months ago
2nd edition is worth playing still...
nowyouareazombie 3 months ago
4th Edition habitualy picks up other guys on the side and that when she doesn't wear makeup she looks like an Orangutang!
Dominicussen 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pottermorestarkid Telling someone to shut up over youtube.... How's that working out for you?
JackXMarin 3 months ago
Comment removed
JackXMarin 3 months ago
Watch allot of red letter media reviews huh?
JackXMarin 3 months ago
@JackXMarin Haha! I'm glad someone catches the inspiration and tone here.
repsesper 3 months ago
@repsesper whats wrong with your faaaaace?!
JackXMarin 3 months ago
Poof!
admingeneral 4 months ago
@Blastodermic WRONG AGAIN - been playing d&d since 89. Balance & fun require plausibility.
Healing surges are fanciful. Quick healing is province of magic; OR cartoons.
Magic users are integral to d&d but exact classes use in session depends on the scenario. Editions wars ARE dumb - compared to 0-3.5 ed, 4e is NOT a new edition, it's a new game - and a poor specimen of a superhero genre game compared to other RPGs out there. Hopefully WOTC lose the brand one day like TSR did, and PAIZO buys it!
saturncancer 4 months ago
I have never played D&D in my life. I wondering how to start and where to start?
everman111 4 months ago
@everman111 go to a gaming store, talk to ppl, try their games especially earlier editions of D&D - the recent 4th ed is not a representation of real D&D - its more like a computer game than a tabletop RPG
saturncancer 4 months ago
@everman111 First watch Chris Perkins' celebrity DnD PAX game. it'll give you an idea for what a session looks like. Then if it looks fun try to find a DnD encounters game near you at a local game store and drop in for a session or two. Then decide if you want to DM or Play. Send me a PM and I'll help you from there. :)
Stairc 3 months ago
Hm, I'm an older generation D&D devotee and a DM that has ushered a lot of new faces under the auspices of tabletop RP. Among my peers I was the only voice of acceptance for 4th edition. My basic argument being "Look, how can you judge an edition without first having given it a whirl?" I've been playing D&D since '86 and since that start, I've played the editions through the years as they've come.
Scrooluse 4 months ago
i might start buying 4th ed books to introdouce my nephews and their friends ( all are WOW players) to a real rpg experience with no boundaries.
ACIDOCEAN1 4 months ago
i've only played 2nd edition and the books are addictive. it's like one can't have enough of them. back in highschool i had: phb, mm, dmg, monstrous compedium w/the norse dragons, mystara monstrous comp., cb of fighters, thieves, gnomes, elves, dwarves, wizards etc.. to make it short i had over $500 worth of books. the sad thing was i didn't have many friends who played dnd and it sucked because i wasted all that money for nothing.
ACIDOCEAN1 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
stop ripping off Plinkett
selbst32 4 months ago
When ever i play D&D i sometimes talk like my charecter.
MegaVergan 4 months ago
I had similar thoughts about 4th edition after a few months of playing it but after another year I ran a pathfinder 1 shot and never looked back. I would love to see a revew from you on Pathfinder.
anarchopinko 5 months ago
well, i actually like the idea of every1 use the same rule, JRPG is famous for the different rules for pc and npc, those boss monsters has abilities to slash your life to 1 point or instant kill most of your characters (FF series) and i feel it is kind of like cheating
KuhoinX 5 months ago
oh dear gods this man is so full of shit, 4th ed is not change for the better, can your 4th ed fighter craft his own weapons? can your 4th ed wizard fail to cast a spell and not blow himself to pieces? can your 4th ed barbarian cleave through 10 enemies at 6th level before the wizard has a chance to cast fireball? 3.5 can. you shmuck!
Dragonxan 5 months ago
Wow... Pathfinder... Why do they even give it another name than Dungeons and Dragons? I thought they were pretty like in game mechanics... But that's a simple ripoff... How come WotC haven't sued them to death?
Leifen20 5 months ago
I might become a DM. how should i keep up with all these updates? i mean, should i just put sticky notes in the book or something??
SteakOfAnger 5 months ago
@SteakOfAnger I just mark a star in pencil next to anything with an update. I've been keeping up with them since the beginning.
repsesper 5 months ago
Play PATHFINDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kaymanklynman 5 months ago
great review i really like your videos
FederationJade 5 months ago
Well, first off, I haven't played 4th ed yet.
My favourite class is Monk, and I have read up on it in 4th Ed, but I haven't compared it with other classes...
I'd like to comment on what you said about the classes of 3.5, as I feel the Monk is different from all the other. Well, yeah, it deals damage (insane amounts of damage) and it doesn't cast spells. But still, you can't replicate a Monk in any way. A monk can play massive offender, massive defender and an extremely good scout. All at once.
Leifen20 5 months ago
@Leifen20 The 4th Editon Monk rapes face:) I havent had so much fun in 20 years of gaming.
Tirinol 4 months ago
@Tirinol Well, I've seen a bit more on 4th ed, and it seems to be very good :-) The monk still has mobility advantages, but one of the things I liked the most, was that incredible speed you get, and that awsome damage in 3.5, these loopholes aren't there in 4th ed. Still, I must say I seem to like the 4th ed concept better, it seems way more balanced all over, even though that means monks are now good at what they do, but not out of proportions ;-P
Well, I will play Monk 4th ed, soon! :-)
Leifen20 4 months ago
And it is anti-spellcaster, anti-tank and anti-groups, all at once.
I made a Girallon Monk CR11 dealing 6x12d8+7 per hit, 42AC, 152HP, run speed of 500ft pr round (without Boots of Speed, climbing speed of 100ft), Sunder +27, Grapple +39, Disarm +31, Jump +45, Hide and Move silently +16.
On top of this, it has Improved Evasion, top on all kinds of saving throws, lowest being 10, and it's always armed, and threath 15 ft.
Leifen20 5 months ago
On top of it all, this is no homerules. It's almost only corebooks, but two-three things brought from some non-campaign extra books.
I also made a Human Monk, almost the same, just not THAT awsome.
IMO, that in a very huge degree opens up for a very own type of gameplaying, which totally distinguish it from all other classes :-) IMO, the Monk is totally underrated :-) The speed, evasion, and all these extremes makes it a totally different experience to play than any other meele or spellcaster.
Leifen20 5 months ago
Poof im at the market STABBING YO GRANDMA!!!!!! Thats classic
TempleToSabot 6 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
I've been playing 3.5 as a DM also, maybe not as much as you did, but I had that same feeling that classes were unbalanced, and some of them where basically the same., and i'll pass on details concerning some rules (items creations...) You explain it very well, keep the good work :p
arkain0463 6 months ago
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arkain0463 6 months ago
Comment removed
arkain0463 6 months ago
Ok Esper here's a question for ya. How do you feel about the Essentials line and what do you think about it, good or bad?
smithtommi 6 months ago
@smithtommi It's interesting that they opened up some new design space, and made some builds that appeal a bit more to both newcomers and players of older editions. Though many of the essentials classes are very thematic and well-written,, my players and I don't use a great deal of Essentials stuff. We prefer a deeper level of complexity with character building.
repsesper 6 months ago
OMG!! did I gewt the wrong edition? my box doesnt have any edition on it and its read and it looks kind of old... Do I have 1st edition... plz dont tell me I do cuz I paid 20 bucks -.- and only 4 classes to begin with
OrkSlayer156 6 months ago
@OrkSlayer156 You got the red box, which was originally released in 1983. It was reprinted for people who wanted to get into 4th edition D&D. You got the right product. In fact, one of the best products. Its essentially a starter set.
badunsta 6 months ago
I see you know absolutely nothing of how to play a non-caster.
Combat tricks? Don't need 'em!
Manoeuvres? Don't need 'em!
Optimized feat selection? What the heck's that?
Tactics? Teamwork? Aid Another action? Never heard of it!
Wiz/Sor "I am the Caster! I is teh ubers!"
Fgt "That's nice. How's your endurance? Can you fight in an anti-magic field? Against an Abjuration specialist? How about in a storm? I hear those Concentration checks are a bitch. Can you fight while mounted?"
Wiz/Sor "F***..."
KefkeWren 7 months ago
Nice but to long
Carte12554 7 months ago
Can anyone tell me if this is wortg getting into, Im thinking about it but still quite unsure.
KoolJoshBoy 7 months ago
I love your Bearded Devil maneuvers. Though you did this awhile ago and I watched it then, watching it again was a real pleasure. Your vids blow me away. Very talented on many levels.
TowerGuardDM 7 months ago
r u alowd 2 multiclass in 4th edition??
octopus9991 7 months ago
@octopus9991 You can multiclass, hybrid class, or hybrid-multiclass.
repsesper 7 months ago
my dnd group plays 3.5 and do to modefeid rules its really fun! lol im the only cleric out of 16 people and no ones deid plus they were around with no cleric months before... i guess im sayin 3.5 can be good if u help it be better and i also play fourth editon and i think they are even or 3.5 might be better
octopus9991 7 months ago
@Blastodermic Yes in 3.5 if you want to heal faster than daily rate you need magic, I don't expect self-indulgent kids to understand that, too used to computer game play. I know the 4e rules; 4e rules say you can spend a healing surge after a rest, which is 5 minutes; that's regeneration dumbass. Wanna understand the HP 'abstraction'? Try throwing yourself of a 2 story building and see if you are back to 100% after 4x5 minutes, 20 minutes. Your system is a cartoon game and a joke of a RPG.
saturncancer 7 months ago
I liked the evolution reference with the car slideshow, but please never put a pontiac transport van as a sign of evolution. EVER!!!
EffroyableMat 7 months ago
I try the fourth one soso but I just can't get in to them.
Diablo9964 7 months ago
@Blastodermic I played 4th when it first came out and discovered they allowed everyone to regenerate 25% of their HP every 5 minutes, almost like Trolls do. You can bash the hell out of someone with baseball bats down to single digit HP, and 20 minutes later they are fine. I agree magic is needed for Healing. Spending gold on potions, scrolls, or items for healing is a great way to consume GP and keep treasure searching. In the 3.5 MiniaturesHB, they have the Healer class. Great PC or Henchman.
saturncancer 8 months ago
well... im no fan of dungeons and drafon but im a hardcore gamer.....still i kinda can relate on your part
12ock 8 months ago
P.S. feats!!!
and one memory refreshment: I was playing DS a while ago, and we had three mages in the group. Yes, it was 2ND E, even less "customizable". But, with few sparks of imagination, all three mages were radically different, used completely different spells. One of them couldn't cast evocation spells at all, he was enchanter, and gues what - he was kicking ass with Hold monster and similar spells.
2Epsionicwizard 8 months ago
Ok, every edition had some flaws. I played both 2nd and 3rd E many times. Yes, generally, the game is evolving and every E is better and better. However, while 3.5E has almost endless ways of customizing you char, seriously. Yes, basics of classes are the same most of the time, but these similarities are making classes what they are. Q: So how to make a difference? A: races, multiclasses, weapon choices, skills, backgrounds, prestige classes, spells...
2Epsionicwizard 8 months ago
how can the compendium books be 'favorite books'?
These games where made by people who've been playing D&D for ages. You're not special.
Sumtinrandom 8 months ago
I really like 4th edition, 3 and 3.5 were fun too, but sometimes I like to play 1st and 2nd. I think it depends on what mood I'm in.
stoolsboy 8 months ago
m8. i'm playing a single campaign like 3 yrs now... as a barbarian. right now i'm an important person (wood-elf. xD) in the world. what you say about the 3.5e and 4e are all true. like the barbarian's single attack... and that's not he thing i do not like. in dnd 3.5e they say that barbarian is the killing machine, witch means a lot of dmg. How about this.... at lvl 1 i can 1shot any mage with my single attack. and at 20 lvl any mage can 1shot me with a single spell...
Beleftw 8 months ago
That was deep. I felt it., I have to say, your DM was a douche when he took the level away.
rookt31893 8 months ago
That was deep. I felt it.
rookt31893 8 months ago
ever read any 3rd Ed. Forgotten Realms stuff. My group and I still use that stuff with 4th
willdoseago 9 months ago
lol 3rd edition is kewl but 4 is da bomb
gaytar1 9 months ago
In the first Video Podcast of the Robot Chicken crew playing D&D with Chris Perkins, the creative director of Dungeons & Dragons, said creative director pronounces the word "Drow" like "how" or "now". I will stick to believing that the creative director of Wizards of the Coast kind of knows how to pronounce this word.
whoopsiedaisy69 9 months ago
Im in your bed room peeing on your floor!
dzacharyharris 9 months ago
repsesper & Blastodermic (and anyone else into 4th ed) PLEASE do look at this guys video, he has aptly and eloquently summed up 4th ed complaints in a detailed yet entertaining way:(search: Fourth Edition D&D is terrible (part III of III) user: lindybeige)
saturncancer 10 months ago
@Blastodermic "Yes clearly a guardian fighter plays exactly the same way ... run it well." - there is widespread complaint around the web 4e is too standardised, classes are samey and boring.
"At least every class ... do nothing else" Fighters & thieves have HEAPS variety, with feats & classes in 3.5 allowing so much customisation "Healing surges .. runs out" It's juvenile to complain about healing responsibilities. Pain, damage and healing are part of battle & war. 4e encourages 'Respawning'
saturncancer 10 months ago
@Blastodermic
I have been DMing since before you were born I expect and I have a big group that make time, even take time off work to play. Yes I don't play childishly.
saturncancer 10 months ago
@Blastodermic
Powergaming is easily nurfed by a good DM. The last powergamer I had was overpowered and arrested by LN city guard after he behaved like a child picking fights - In actual dungeons they stripped and humiliated him, then left him to rot at the Gaoler's mercy in a prison warded by anti-planar/teleportation spells. In the real world abilities and technological items are 'imbalanced' (e.g. d20 modern), but in the end, balance occurs - there is no need to do so artificially like 4e
saturncancer 10 months ago
@Blastodermic
4th ed is standardised, bland, and boring, I tried running it when it came back and gave up when I realised everyone had the same abilities, just with different aesthetic. What also struck me was the silliness of everyone having regeneration, A.K.A healing surges, where characters can spend as many as they want after 5 minutes to heal all their damage. Absolute nonsense.
saturncancer 10 months ago
@nivenheim
Reference 200 million years: Wikipedia, Crocodile - check it. 'Changed little since the time of the dinosaurs' is the quote; so many 4th ed fanboys are dummkopf's that rant before they research.
saturncancer 10 months ago
@Blastodermic I do think you are wrong, 3.5 isn't only for power-gamers, I tried 4e, and have played 4e for about 6 to 8 months now, and I really don't see the appeal. I really think you got the short end of the stick when you picked your DM in 3.5, because I have never, EVER, had a party who solely relied on power gaming. No matter what version you are playing, it all boils down to preference, and the people you play with. So in effect, all versions are "True D&D"
zzaxle 10 months ago
You say that everything is "this" or everyone "uses this" for 3.5, but i didn't hear you saying that for 4.0 ... Since... Ya know... That's the biggest gripe i've been hearing about on EVERY single forum i've read talking about 3.5 to 4.0, that you can't nearly customize your characters as intricately as you used to. And along with the mainstreaming of combat where it essentially boils down to nursing the player along with per-encounter healing surges and per-encounter combat abilities.
bud389 10 months ago
About Multiclassing, i've done pure barbarian classes before and they DO NOT go down easy, especially with their unusually high fortitude saves. God help you if they have magical items which grant them spell resistance.
bud389 10 months ago
I also think your completely dead wrong about Spellcasters vs Nonspellcasters argument. First of all, you are better at making trip, grapple, bullrush, disarming, fight defensively, flank, feinting, and not to mention, Attack of oppurtunity was DESIGNED for melee fighters. Should i also mention the crazy amount of exclusive melee abilities the monk has (who also gains spell resistance!)? Besides, most of the feats are for melee classes anyway.
bud389 10 months ago
Wait, wait, wait, wait.... Are you actually COMPLAINING, that there are penalties for dieing? What, are you just suggesting that dieing should just be made into a little slap on the wrist? Or how about we make it like in Bioshock how you just come walking right out of a nearby vitachamber with no penalties at all? When i first started playing i was flabbergasted at how easy it was to come back to life, where i initially thought you had to restart another character from scratch.
bud389 10 months ago
Actually, Clerics, druids, paladins, rangers, and bards all have unique spells (sure they may share a few), the only list that really is copied verbatim is the sorcerer/wizards spells, but it offers two completely different play styles for each. So no, everybody DOESN'T use the same stuff, and if they do, you can use spells in different ways (atleast the fun DM's allow you to) for instance burning down a forest with fire spells, freezing a pond with an ice spell, yadda yadda.
bud389 10 months ago
@Blastodermic
Ive DMed 3.5 for 8 years and what you say about it is nonsense. 4th ed is Unpopular. Lots of people hate it so much because it is so different from traditional D&D it is so unlike any of the other editions. Enormous amounts of people want 4th edition to die in the ass and Hasbro to dump D&D. Such unpopularity is unprecedented in RPG's. If WOTC retain D&D they will inevitably go to 5th ed so all the fanboism will transfer to the next ed, but remember now how you argued for 4th ed.
saturncancer 10 months ago
@Blastodermic 3.5 is classic and 8 years is not 'ancient' except to a child. WTF nonsense quote? "The entire system was built around rules lawyering and only power gamers at the end of the day clung on to the system." - gross generalisation. High level fighters can kill a wizard faster than a 4th ed fanboy can say "Im WOTC lemming". Im playing 3.5 and like MANY others feel betrayed by marketing people and the sycophants . Will you dump your 4th ed books for 5th ed next year? Or just use PDF's?
saturncancer 10 months ago
@Blastodermic
(an imbalanced mechanical system with different abilities and items is balanced by a good DM's roleplaying - e.g a Munchkin killing machine character who causes trouble is quickly arrested, stripped naked, manacled with enchanted metal and hosed down by jailers in a 'proper' dungeon in a city)
saturncancer 10 months ago
@Blastodermic - Rubbish! 3.5 is great as is, it didnt need to be 'updated' that is just WOTC marketing propaganda to sell a new system!
4th ed is drab and boring as it doesnt matter what class you play, it all is standardized with the same mechanical abilities for a power, whether combat or magic, the aesthetics are just different. The problem with 'Balance' = 'boring'.
saturncancer 10 months ago
@Blastodermic - Rubbish! 3.5 is great as is, it didnt need to be 'updated' that is just WOTC marketing propaganda to sell a new system!
4th ed is drab and boring as it doesnt matter what class you play, it all is standardized with the same mechanical abilities for a power, whether combat or magic, the aesthetics are just different. The problem with 'Balance' = 'boring'.
saturncancer 10 months ago
@Blastodermic
:-) My point exactly - 3.5 is soo good that:
"You're just expecting an complete change which doesn't have to be the case if the crocodile doesn't need to." 3.5 is more similar to 1st & 2nd ed (which I also love and own) than 4th.
It does'nt have to completely change, unless WOTC want people to buy all the books again. I only just finished completing my 3.5 collection this year - they can go to hell if they expect me to buy more of their products and all they have is 4th ed pulp.
saturncancer 11 months ago
The core books are more ... guidlines, you dont have to take everything literally and you can exclude and change some of them as you see fit
ilikefishsticks1 11 months ago
What makes D&D 1E and 2E outdated? The design principles are just as valid now as they were back then. There is a reason that there are multiple throw back games designed for those gamers. Reading a rulebook isn't the same as playing the game.
Ulairi 11 months ago
This was good. I liked it. I enjoy 4e. Thank you for sharing this. Know that there is a fan here. You're awesome, so i'm subcribing. Keep up the good work, and again, thank you.
Instintaneous 11 months ago
And wow- complaining about the XP loss, item creation, Rez level loss, and negative levels? Someone's going on a QQ fest.
Also: I understand how the crafting stuff works. It's easy.
Also: Paladins and Druids, and even healers heal effectively.
Lhurgyof 11 months ago
Yeah, because 30 different abilities per class is MUCH better than 100s of spells...
Lhurgyof 11 months ago
Be a fanboy of 4th ed all you like but don't put down earlier editions without having experience of them, as it betrays a facile egoism. All editions of the game are valid, and 4th ed is just one RPG in a constellation of RPgaming - but it is by no means 'the best' I can assure you after 25 years of reading different RPG's. 4th ed is little more than a low-complexity superhero type game (which is fine for some players) but even within D&D, it is not the best version ever officially supported.
saturncancer 1 year ago
(PS I will leave on a nice note) to help you DM-roleplay demons and devils. These beings have always been mortal-centric, which means they must revolve around the machinations of mortals, being either directly or indirectly summoned by them, and met or used in a way where the mortal seeks power, promotes violence, or some other vice. They are not "Mario Bro's Monsters" to stick you 'magic sword' into - their success over man must always be due to the weakness of men, such as greed, wrath, etc.
saturncancer 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I tried skipping a little ahead, but when you did the flawed logic of 'everything changes' and used computer games to support your theory, then made a WRONG statement about evolution, I did come close to wanting to see you in a pool with a Crocodile a species THAT HAS NOT CHANGED IN 200 MILLION YEARS - I can only go back to saying you need to play in an experienced DM's group in a game that is many years old to really learn how to Roleplay D&D.
saturncancer 1 year ago
@saturncancer Everything does always change. That is a fundamental trait of existence. The evolution analogy is precisely pertinent in this case, as human-made systems are always being refined and redefined. And come on guy, the crocodile is a rare case, and you know that.
What's with you talking about me being in a pool with a crocodile? Why would you say that? I run this channel to encourage, inspire, and entertain people. If you are personally in pain or sick, don't take it out on me.
repsesper 1 year ago 18
@repsesper
I'm fine, It was a joke about the pool and crocodile.
Your loyalty to 4th ed is obvious but you have just failed Debating101 by admitting that there is at least one species that hasn't changed sicne it developed perfection, The Crocodile. Add another, the great white shark - that one is at least 16 million years old. Best to drop the 'everything changes' argument.
saturncancer 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@repsesper ok I'm sorry but I'm finally brining this up. Drow should be pronounced like Dr-oh. vowel/consinant/vowel mothafucka. you just got grammar arrested
Luiginerd 11 months ago
@Luiginerd actually, he was pronouncing it right.
TheOnlyAttrition 11 months ago
@TheOnlyAttrition ....ok aside from my getting the whole cvc as opposed to vcv thing wrong I stand by my comment
Luiginerd 11 months ago
@Luiginerd Ok.
TheOnlyAttrition 11 months ago
@Luiginerd I've actually had a question featured on the D&D podcast regarding the pronunciation of several "D&D words", including drow, which rhymes with "now". In the end, a gaming group can pronounce it the way that they prefer. We're not going for a doctorate in fantasy vocabulary here. Maybe you should be careful before being so rude next time.
repsesper 11 months ago 18
@repsesper ...oh, sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude. At any rate, keep up the good work
Luiginerd 11 months ago
@repsesper like arcana. Should it be r-con-na or r-can-na?
stoolsboy 8 months ago
@repsesper I think I know exactly what you mean. Of course, I have heard what the "official" pronunciation of "tiefling" is, but for some reason I can't get the (unofficial) pronunciation "TIFE-ling" out of my head.
nightspawn13 8 months ago
@Luiginerd difrent ways of saying things is very common
humans may say Dr-oh
orcs may say Dr-oe
and elves may say useless scum worth less than the ground they walk on
NoobFish23 9 months ago
@repsesper actually the crocodile has gotten smaller so technically that is a change.
AngelusLapsus66 10 months ago 2
@saturncancer Crocodile have changed a lot
what fool couldn't see that
NoobFish23 9 months ago
@NoobFish23
'A lot' means what? The Crocodile is essentially the same as prehistoric fossils, with minor differences over millions of years. The change from 3.5 to 4th ed was not minor, and it happened too quickly (less than 1 decade compared to the shift from 1st-2nd-3rd...It was clearly to entice Fanboy-fools to buy all the new junk and lap it up as the only D&D worth playing. BTW make sure you stand by your crappy-boring-standardized edition when 5th comes out!
saturncancer 9 months ago
@saturncancer God freak.
RampantWolf 8 months ago
@RampantWolf If you are suggesting that I am a god freak and believe in god, then why am I acknowledging evolution? That is just DUMB!
saturncancer 8 months ago
@RampantWolf Do you play fourth Edition?
saturncancer 8 months ago
@saturncancer Shhh it's okay, calm down god freak.
RampantWolf 8 months ago
@RampantWolf Where do you get 'god freak' from - When I say I believe in evolution? That's just plain dumb.
saturncancer 8 months ago
@saturncancer Shhh, don't worry God freak, it will be okay.
RampantWolf 8 months ago
@RampantWolf - you are so far from the truth it is really stupid. How you get god-freak from my submission of evolution as evidence shows a level of dim wit that is astonishing. NO I am not a christian.
saturncancer 8 months ago
@saturncancer Shhh, easy there God freak, take some anger management classes.
RampantWolf 7 months ago
@saturncancer he probably got "god freak" from your user name considering that Saturn was a Roman God
smithtommi 7 months ago
@smithtommi True, but it is also the alchemical symbol for lead.
saturncancer 7 months ago
@smithtommi But "godfreak" is a derogatory term for born-again Christian in modern lingo, google it.
saturncancer 7 months ago
@saturncancer and how do you know he was using modern lingo?
smithtommi 7 months ago
Where to go from here: Sorry, but I've given up listening to you at 10 minutes: What you need young man, is to play under the GM's auspices of an experienced gamer in his or her 40's that has played 1st&2nd ed - perhaps 3rd too, as well as a plethora of other RPG's, so they can teach you about the wisdom behind running a game. I suggest you go find a historic wargaming Grognard in your home town and ask to play in their group's current campaign.
saturncancer 1 year ago
Defending 3.5: XP to create items: one of the best innovations of 3.5, using 'xp' is the akin to using 'life force' and is a great natural limit to the 'made in china' feel around magic items that has cropped up so often in many games, including MMORPG's. Magic Items should be treated like works of Art - they should take some of the artists 'soul' to create, and explain why artists often have so many colourful lives (many experiences, much XP).
saturncancer 1 year ago
@saturncancer This makes no sense. There is no prominent system of "spending life force" in D&D. The reason in 3e that some spells require XP, as does magic item creation, is because the game designers were trying to balance the mechanics. They didn't have any better ideas at the time. Now they do- you don't spiritually vaporize your soul to make a +1 battleaxe. And more importantly, gamers don't want to waste away their own XP- duh!
repsesper 1 year ago
@repsesper NO - it makes perfect sense - Since the beginning of D&D, spells like Permanency have required some loss of 'vital energy' to help ensure magic item creation is treated seriously. Artists DO invest of themselves in their creations, just because some gamers whinge they have lost some XP means the system is WORKING to create a natural limit on item creation - my (and other players) understand - you should try being strict with your players and actually force them to have a penalty!
saturncancer 1 year ago
@repsesper If you talk to Artists, young man, and listen when they say about 'inspiration' you will realise that they cannot 'churn out items' They often have erratic inspiration and erratic spates of artistic creation - all analogous to XP being available to spend; AND many do talk about putting their 'heart and soul' into their art! You obviously subscribe to the 'made in china' feel about magic items; In a proper game +1 battleaxes ARE special ! Sentimental! Not easily 'discarded' for +2 !!!
saturncancer 10 months ago
@saturncancer Again, if you actually knew me, you'd feel so foolish for saying these things. I am an artist, a writer, and a musician (which is no secret- if you could take the time to actually observe my body of work). Creativity flows from me like a river in Corellon's forest because I remain open to inspiration at all times, and I have the fire of passion inside. You can't simply assert that every craftsman in a fantasy world suffers from erratic inspiration and fickle passion.
repsesper 10 months ago
@repsesper
Fair point. XP is literally a measure of 'experience' and someone who invests work with it makes it unique and special - hence magical. The rules for spending XP provide an excellent limit on item creation. Furthermore, in the 3.5DMG 'power components' are mentioned. SO with a little extra work a DM can devise rules for XP costs reduced with power components eg for a Fireball wand, Efreeti dust is worth more than Salamander; human sacrifice for evil, or relics for good items, etc
saturncancer 10 months ago
Defending 3.5: Familiars. Yes the loss of one is hard- Ever been in love? ever lost that love due to a tragedy? Ever had that cherished friend suddenly tragically gone? Evidently not or you would understand the need to embed a serious penalty in to make the bond precious. TSK TSK - the folly of youth
saturncancer 1 year ago
@saturncancer Oh my gosh, are you trolling? You have no idea what I have been through in my life, and exactly how deeply I've loved or how terribly I've suffered. How degrading.
repsesper 1 year ago
@repsesper Yes I am annoyed that you mocked the loss around familiars because you are advocating that there should be no penalties for their loss. Someone who understood loss would understand there should be one - if you don't like 'trolling' and 'degrading' peoples attachments to their animal companions please delete this section from your spiel (I have one Pagan G/F who calls her Cat her 'familiar' and was devastated when she lost her prior one 5 years ago in a car accident)
saturncancer 1 year ago
Defending 3.5: Similar Spells: The similar spells in the PHB reflect a similar building basis - just like a similar armour and weapons table can be used for a Historically accurate Arthurian game to a Fantastic Eberron setting. These again are the tools, not the end in itself - its the way the spells are deployed that matter - but by all means, renaming them to specific cultures is appropriate (eg Detect Magic becomes 'Arcane Vision' etc)
saturncancer 1 year ago
The mature DM understand religion and philosophy. Time for you to read up on your cosmology in the real world, the nature of balance, grace, karma, an get out of the childish gamer mentality that is the reason you find fault in the systems - as a poor craftsman finds fault in the tools.
saturncancer 1 year ago
@saturncancer If you actually knew me personally, you would feel so silly for saying that. I am not going to sit here and try to prove myself as spiritually valid on a YouTube comment. This is a video about a game.
repsesper 1 year ago
@repsesper Demons and Devils are spiritual denizens, not 'a species', and it makes perfect sense that they can teleport at will. Your diatribe about this is sorrowfully nieve, all I can say is that you need to read some occult - start with Solomon's Key or the Goetia, to help you understand their play (I do have sympathy as when I was young I treated them as 'Big Monsters' too instead of giving them the special treatment they deserve)
saturncancer 1 year ago
Defending 3.5: Greater Teleport: Yes Demons and Devils should have this. Your examples demonstrate an immature understanding of the way these outsiders exist - they are part of a hierachy, including Celestials. If a Bearded Devil went 'poof I'm coming to pee on your bedroom floor' it would be eliminated down to Lemure level, if it were lucky, as the omniscient gods would no doubt sent an angel to clean up the mess instantly - which would provoke the ire of its particular lord of Hell.
saturncancer 1 year ago
@saturncancer I think you are missing the humor intended in this segment (and souring it as well). The exaggeration serves to illustrate the illogical and awkward cosmology set forth by allowing an entire superspecies to be able to warp around the multiverse at-will.
repsesper 1 year ago
@repsesper Demons and Devils are not a Species - they are NOT living things. They are souls of mortals damned, and that you still don't understand how they can interact in the cosmos is OK as you are clearly young and still a newbie at DMing mature game worlds, but if you read some theology it will become clearer.
saturncancer 1 year ago
Quote"Ive never played 1st or 2nd ed" but its ARCHAIC - WTF? AS soon as you judge another edition as 'worse than my favourite edition' then you are just a gumby caught in the edition flame wars. ALL editions of the game have their merits - ARCHAIC is synonymous with CLASSICAL - an ephemeral tech-toy generation with its gamepop whimsy that cannot see the virtues in historical constructs is childish, simpleminded, and ignorant - then doomed to have history repeat when their game too gets older.
saturncancer 1 year ago
@saturncancer Saying that 1e and 2e are outdated isn't disrespectful, I'm merely stating a fact. I only need to read through the source material and mechanics to recognize that improvements have since been made, and the gaming community has moved on.
I have quite an interest in history and world culture/religion- from barbarian europe, to feudal Japan, to the native americans. I feel that modern innovation (technological or social), without the context set by history, is ultimately shallow.
repsesper 1 year ago
@repsesper "I'm merely stating a fact." - vanity of youth. Your opinion is just that, and these older systems are far more satisfying to play than the 'WOW computer game' style of 4th ed (which I tried running for a few sessions) For SOME PEOPLE. Please STOP judging previous editions, it makes anything you say in defense of 4th sound puerile.
saturncancer 1 year ago
The fact that you don't even recognize the distinction between 1st and 2nd edition (Advanced) D&D and the line of Original D&D, Holmes Basic, Moldvay/Cook B/X, Mentzer BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia shows your lack of understanding about older editions.
AD&D, I'll agree with you, is clunky, Baroque, and (possibly) obsolete. Non-advanced D&D, however, offers a streamlined, rules-light approach that both AD&D and newer editions lack.
Hushashabega 1 year ago
i take that all back..your such a newbie..upon firther watching..you have no idea what it is to actually face monsters that make your character shit himself. lol
skuzzyknuckles 1 year ago
@skuzzyknuckles You mean when he whines about negative levels becoming permanent? At least you get a save in 3.X.
I fail to see why the DM shouldn't have the option to pose dire threats to his players, it makes the game more exciting.
Hushashabega 1 year ago
@Hushashabega it has ALWAYS been an option, that is the thing. he says 3.5 is archaic because it is not rock solid rules, but then again no pen and paper is rock solid. if ya don't like something, change it. that is why when 5.0 comes out..the 4.0 people will be confused. It will be soon too, when that comes out. Hasbro doesn't like losing money to pathfinder.
skuzzyknuckles 1 year ago
@Hushashabega Not to come off hostile, I know what your saying..i just wanted to throw my opinion out there
skuzzyknuckles 1 year ago
But some of your poinst are valid..the spell list is broken...but that is the case with both 3.5, pathfinder and 4th edition. bring back the spell spheres and a complete list of arcane spells..that is a 2nd editon thing
skuzzyknuckles 1 year ago