Tchaikovsky - Symphony n.6 "Pathétique" [5/5, Adagio lamentoso] - Temirkanov

[alfabetab]

Велик композитор, Велик диригент!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bigbearleeds]

So utterly beautiful .. and yes, a wonderful interpretation too. One can sense his anguish borne aloft by his brilliance. Hard to listen to this and not be profoundly moved.

[helius69]

That beating on 4:30 rips my lungs off.... Every time.

And those last bars with four "p" marked on the doublebases. Listening to a heartbeat stoping... forever.

Thank you Piotr, thank you Yuri

[ricardorzm]

This easily fills my eyes with tears... truly the chant of the composer's soul, powerful emotions made music, moving deep feelings within even unknown places of our spirit. Think about it, just music, not words, creating this kind of emotions in people...

[dulcinaandgnome]

No words can explain what I feel every time I listen to this Adagio.

I completely agree with windstorm 1000: the greatest musical emotional utterance in history.

Thanks for sharing this wonderful performance, one of the best I've ever listened to.

Merry Christmas to all music lovers.

Music is that universal language which can unite & save the whole world.

:)

[windstorm1000]

The 4th mov. is the greatest musical emotional utterance in history.The main theme is like a collective world sigh--or the last lament of a human heart. The 2nd part has no parallel in music--a truly bleak vision--like the last hope of a person at the end of their rope--or the last star winking out in the void---& yet all is still ravishingly beautiful in only Tchaik.'s unique heart felt style. Profound to to say the least-- & continues to touch & move listeners in this cynical age.

[Sorcerer2k]

better clapping before than after this movement!

[wondermusic63]

From 8:37 to the end of the movement (and symphony) is complete desolation and sadness. So evocative an emotional, it fades away in ethereal spheres. Tchaikovsky was among the first composers to dare end a symphony with an Adagio slow movement.

[MrGunterguerrero]

" I love it like never loved any of my creations, ", said Thaikovsky..." I was never so pleased with myself, so proud, so happy, in the consciousness of having created something good...Without exaggeration, I put my whole soul in this work. "

His last work...his own Réquiem !

[MrGunterguerrero]

" Sublime ' is not enough...maybe ' Divine ' !!!

[lamwingman1]

Termirkanov is the Maestro who got me hooked on T6, his interpretation is my favorite among the 2X version I collected/seen so far..... 

[altareggo]

Awesome!! Very sensitive, expressive interpretation. Good use of dynamics, rubado, etc: i love it!!!! One of the best versions of this all-time classic symphony movements i've ever heard.... stirs the soul BigTime!!!!

[JHJennings]

Yes, this is one of the world's GREAT conductors!

[Mutzickel]

Für meine Begriffe die beste Einspielung der Pathetique, die man über Youtube finden kann.

Mit diesem Stück verbindet mich seit vielen Jahrzehnten ein besonderes Erlebnis, das Ende des 70mm-Films mit dem Titel des Komponisten aus dem Jahre 1970. Der Film endete mit dem 4. Satz der Pathetique als Schlußmusik. Ohne Bild. Erst 10 Minuten nach dem Ende der letzten Note stand der Erste auf.

Derartiges habe ich niemals wieder erlebt ...

[Scissors8311]

2:43 on is divine!!! My god at 4:30 !!!!

[Scissors8311]

2:43 on is divine!!!

[WVR511]

Como sollozan los violines.,,,y los fagots....y las notas planideras de los trombones

en los acordes funebres casi al final....y el rumor mas que el sonido de los timbales.....

mas los solos del clarinete....Creo que m uy pocas veces compositor alguno haya logrado los niveles de vuelo que logro el maestro Tchaikovski en esta sinfonia

[DerBayer1843]

one of the most beautiful and deepest symphonical movements.

There's more musical feeling in one second than in the entire pop music...

[dreyxxyz]

@DerBayer1843 At my little brother's funeral I played both Bach and Elton John's "Your Song"-We can all agree on the musical feeling that you and I and others feel about this music, but don't take away the strength of other music-there's plenty of examples in pop music, and other music, of lifelong and touching feelings created by listening to music that you like-If you were an alien coming to our planet, I don't think you would think in terms of classical or rock, but that humans like music.

[Atramentumink]

@DerBayer1843 there is no room for comparison, man. Just comparison is a CRIME

[TheStaticOwner]

1 person doesn't know what music is

[menexss]

lindo lindo maravilhoso,simplismente lindo

[AO7795]

you dont have a soul if the thought of disliking this even goes through your head.

[wsidechris]

Saw the St. Louis Symphony perform this tonight in NYC. That ending will haunt me forever.

[opheliackirsche13]

la amo, me hace llorar

[Aktinovolos]

I have been at a concert where Temirkanov conducted this symphony. He is a God, of course... At the end, there were not much applause; myself, I sat there almost nailed to the seat. A black woman next to me was sobbing uncontrollably. And this is in America, where people are generically emotional (or should I say, sentimental) but these emotions do not run deep! Temirkanov has this remarkable ability to heat up things without actually doing much.

[katinkers]

tchaikovsky was suffering from cholera the first time he performed this. he died about a week after. surely this must have been an enormous knot in his chest to perform, probably knowing he wouldn't turn out of his low. it's scarcely imaginable the emotions this piece has evoked.

[tapadillo81]

parte di questo movimento è nel film cosi è la vita di aldo giovanni e giacomo e sottolinea in modo mirabile la loro sorpresa dinanzi alle bare coi loro corpi.straordinario il potere di questo struggente lirismo!!!

[hembetan]

CLAP!! CLAP!! SSSSHHHHHH!!!!!! clap... cl...

I don't know others, but I have fun whenever that happens. X-D

And yes, that has happened to me!!! :-(

[chorister88]

i understand and on the other side i dont...why people shouldnt clap after the movement...sometimes it really deserves :((

[jordan3461]

¿Que otra música se le puede poner a la tristeza?

[Clausitaable]

" La amo como no he amado nunca ninguna de mis composiciones... No exagero, toda mi alma está en esta sinfonía". (Refiriendose Tchaikovsky a esta sinfonía)

[karkarola]

One of the best moments in history of music. For me, it goes together perfectly with ending of "The Idiot" by Fyodor Dostoevsky...

[BobfromSalem]

Four stars-conductor--orchestra, and of course, Tschaikovsky!

[1worriedman]

To me...this movement the further it goes,reminds me that Tchaikovsky most likely knew that his end(death) was immanent(coming soon)because some people were trying to blackmail him.This movement is the utter pit of despair.

[brittwait]

i absolutely LOVE playing this. i love melancholy music. it's so much easier to put a lot of emotion in when you play.

[belugafishgod]

I am a tubist for a California orchestra. I played this last night and I lucked out. I hope I luck out tonight. 7:47

[fcmilsweeper9]

Is it...is it cold in here?

[bubblybassoonist]

I don't feel worthy to perform this in four weeks time... I'm possibly emotionally immature... 1st bassoon is perhaps beyond me... :(

[nikiboro]

S U P E R B !!!!!!!

[MrPepebuo]

Escuchar esta obra es evocar dolor en el alma..

pisar la dimensión de la amargura y es llorar con el alma.

es el nudo en la garganta pero de la forma mas espiritual

sublime y evocador lleno de hermosura a la vez..

[jordan3461]

@MrPepebuo

Es una bajada de la depresion a la desesperación... el "pathos" es casi imposible de soportar... y los ultimos latidos de los contrabajos en medio del silencio... las palabras sobran

[SoundTracksPassion]

@jordan3461 tu heres muy sensible! gracias por tus palabras!!! i disculpa mi espanol,soy Italiano! W la musica vera !

[herakles120]

This movement captures the aspect of the Romantic Age of music. It is very heavy emotionally.

[NuovoCurioso]

....uno dei brani musicali più belli, coinvolgenti, commoventi...e significativi della Musica Classica...

Un grande Capolavoro...composto dal Gigantesco musicista che è stato Tchaikovsky....

[1115youha]

This final movment is very sad .ㅠ.ㅠ..

[celinedionfan]

It's amazing that in this one symphony, you can trace Tchaikovsky's life through the 4 movements: 1) Building success 2-3) Rising to the top, making it, becoming the greatest composer 4) The fall and sudden death of our beloved composer. It's no wonder that the public that attended Tchaikovsky's tribute concert the day after his death got the message unlike at the premiere.Who knew that 9 days after the premiere, the greatest composer at that time (and in my opinion in history) would be gone?

[keiji4956]

After Karajan,I think this Pathetique Symphony is understanded as not weak or quiet one. This is powerful and grand. This conducting is deeply satisfied me.Thank you very much for uploading.....

[accordoinfa]

Struggente

[chobello]

Wow

[apalla1518]

I can feel the agony in this last piece, I'm not a person who knows a lot about classical music, but I do know that this piece touched my soul!

[Uahrgl]

This wonderful last movement symbolises the fade of life and the dispair about the farewell...

[36beachbum]

Maestro Temirkanov conducting the St. Petersburg performing Pathetique has never been surpassed :-) 

[Memale2009]

C'est trop beau!

[maestroadam]

Monumental piece. Monumental performance.

[lapsedcannibal]

Question for any passing brass players:

At 7.50 : SLIDE VIBRATO??

Is that an Italian thing?

Very Interesting if so..

[LJBSasha]

I don't know for sure if this specific rumour is true. What I've heard was that he was apparently FORCED to commit suicide due to a "court of honour" convened a few days *after the première* of this work ordering him to do so if they were not to report the scandal to the Carj (Tsar).

[LJBSasha]

When he was writing this piece, he was supposedly out to tell his nephew Vladímir Davïdov via this piece about the extreme affection he felt for him (the nephew) and who he really was as a person.

Otherwise, what CAN be said of the composer was that he was especially melancholy ever since his apparent rejection and end of his relationship 3 years earlier with the Baroness Nadjézda von Mjék (Meck - it seems as if her rejection itself was FORCED upon her by her family!). He couldn't find

[LJBSasha]

any peace anywhere, regardless of where he went or what he did. Under such circumstances, it's by no means impossible that he could have already been not that far from suicide - certainly the music of that symphony strongly points in that direction...

[BernardProfitendieu]

@LJBSasha LOL!!

[celinedionfan]

@LJBSasha Yes, but his brother, Modest, would completely disagree with you. Modest denied that Pyotr committed suicide until the day he died. He even said that the doctors who looked after his brother and diagnosed him with Cholera did everything in their power to save him. I'd also like to add that his mother died from cholera when he was 14 and that the city he was in when he died was under an epidemic of that disease. And finally, he lived to be 53, which in 1893 was quite good for a Russian.

[LJBSasha]

@celinedionfan:  Yes, Modjést DID deny matters all along - however, he then (IF the tale were true) would simply have been keeping faith with his brother Pjótr, who really didn't want the secret to leak out!!

Granted that St. Petersburg was in the grip of a cholera epidemic at the time: it still was affecting mainly the poor and less-educated - and Pjótr Iljích was neither of those classes!! As to his age: if one wasn't either an alcoholic or with a health-defect (Bórodin had heart-trouble

[LJBSasha]

of a sort that for several years was just waiting to happen - hence his dying at 54), it still was possible to live longer: Rímskiy-Kórsakov lived to be 64, Dostojévskiy made it to nearly 60, Ánton Rúbinstein missed being 65 by just 8 days!! To boot, at the time of his last symphony's première Pjótr Iljích was in good physical health overall...

Finally, given his being born in 1840, the time-gap for health advances was 39 years between his and his mother's deaths!

[Faustnh]

2'm:41"s OMFG

[matthewnessful]

Absolute perfection. No other rendition I've heard gets the parts at places like 5:57 and 7:04 like Temirkanov's, and Tchaikovsky was a genius!

[danielgdecastro]

Lo mejor que haya compuesto Tchaikovsky, imposible contener las lágrimas al escuchar esto...

[otherjoe1234]

brilliant

[pile333]

At the end of this wonderful movement you can even perceive Tchaikovsky's worn out soul, hearth and breath.

One of my fovourites.

[1LUPENZO]

please respect for maestro Temirkanov ia a great conductor director great opera thanks

[ajajtapa]

@1LUPENZO no great conductor has notes in front of him!

[ilwmb]

@ajajtapa not true.

[BernardProfitendieu]

@ajajtapa dimwitted comment

[LJBSasha]

Yes, passionate but too fast!!! This movement has to be as desperate as possible as well as weary of life - that second quality is almost totally missing!! All wish to live must be KILLED by this piece, and this interpretation fails miserably on that account (particularly as Mr. Tjemirkanóv is too fast)!! Even

some nice inflections don't make up for excessive smoothness all too often and too much.

3/5

[blitzshot23]

@LJBSasha meh i thought it was a good speed. there are other versions which are a LOT faster.

the people do want to go home at some point.

[LJBSasha]

Yes, and those who are faster I've no particular respect for (though it's also a question of the musical inflections and how well they come off!). Anything faster than 10 minutes won't work with me, period!! While Bernstein at 17 minutes may well be too slow (failing in terms of passion - he's too inflexible in terms of rubato), one has to combine BOTH qualities to get the right feeling for this piece.

[Somewhere between 12½ and 15 minutes would be my likely best-recommended speed...]

[MariaCaIIas]

Great Tempi! Desperation does not have to drag in kitschy slow!

the tendency to slow down tempi for the benefit of -questionably- luscious orchestral sound is modern and came mostly with early and later 20th century self indulgent or even genius german conductors, who were too proud of their orchestras.

I tend to really dislike slow tempi. They usually favour sound at the cost of music. In nineteenth century this would have been rather slow...

PS. Timing in minutes is preposterous in music!

[LJBSasha]

Yes, it can be preposterous 'per se' (i.e., if that were the only factor that mattered!!); however, it can also be an indicator of how the other things could potentially be.

Chaykóvskiy's music is not merely about excitement - it's the emotion that matters a great deal more (and he's also no slouch regarding form, even if it's not Brahms or Beethoven!!). That's why - for example - I prefer Priwin (Prévin) over Janssons (who for me is stone-cold) in the "Manfred Symphony."

[LJBSasha]

Actually, at the end of the 19th-century & start of the 20th, the German composer Max Reger discouraged people from being excessively fast with his pieces (notably his organ works) - his sometimes-extremely-fast metronomic markings were more meant to stop people from wallowing too much than as really-intended tempi!

Furthermore, German musicians and critics wanted their Beethoven to be on the slow side.

The point is that it's not only German conductors post-1950 that favoured slowness...

[MariaCaIIas]

Your arguement with Reger still shows that the tendency was to be fast!

Yes, it was not only the germans who tended to be slow...

[LJBSasha]

Yes, many people used to be on the fast side all over Europe and the world; that doesn't however mean that it was right 'per se'.

By that same token, if one followed Beethoven's metronome markings for his 9th symphony (IIRC), it becomes a radically different work compared to what it very quickly became...

[MariaCaIIas]

I am not aware of the original markings on the ninth... are they fast or slow?

[LJBSasha]

I can't say for sure (Beethoven isn't my cup of tea, so I've not really studied that piece much), bui I somehow remember their being VERY FAST!

[MariaCaIIas]

so you do come closer and closer to my argument that the tendency for slow is quite modern after all...

[LJBSasha]

On the contrary, it seems that it's you that are in the wrong: if already things were slowing down right after Beethoven's time, wouldn't it rather point to a gradual slowing-down throughout these nearly 200 years instead of a more pronounced slowing down in this century (let alone these past 50 years)?

An alternative could be that people have tended to be faster with music that was contemporaneous with THEIR time, with it ALL being slowed down as they got further away from then?

[LJBSasha]

As an example, somewhere I remember reading (alas, not where I read this...) that by Wagner's late years, he and his contemporaries would be brisk with his (Wagner's) music; yet they would play Bach quite slowly. How does that square with your argument, if I may dare ask?

[LJBSasha]

In fact, yet another point that crosses my mind: when playing his own music, Sjergjéy Vasíljevich Rakhmáñinov apparently tended to be fast, seeming even shallow!! On the other hand, he seems to have looked favourably upon contemporaries of his (e.g., Horowitz) who played his works quite differently from him.

People have therefore thought that perhaps he felt somewhat inhibited with the emotion his art displayed - and little wonder given how enough people, most often those of an [1]

[LJBSasha]

[1] 'intellectual' bent, have always despised his compositions. He often also made various cuts in many of his pieces (even on recordings!) in an attempt to - vainly - placate them.  [2]

[LJBSasha]

[2] [I say 'vainly' as they (most often critics, including composers like Stravínskiy and Schönberg as well as less-talented mere pen-pushers!!) were anyway anti-Romantic, looking down in the same way upon anybody who continued to be 'anachronistic' like Elgar, Puccini or Richard Strauß! There just was - and is! - no reasoning with that kind of prideful bigotry!! In fact, nearly 30 years ago, somebody made plain his contempt for me upon hearing that Chaykóvskiy was among my favourites...]

[vk92007]

@LJBSasha If you listned to Karajan, that's not technically true. Karajan was of course Austrian, but his family came from Italy

[LJBSasha]

Finally, isn't it better to be honest, even if some people don't like what you have to say - as opposed to merely "going with the flow", being part of the herd, etc.?

[principalbass]

Says who?

[LJBSasha]

What do you mean? I have my taste (and if your truly were granted the opportunity to ever conduct it, I'm stating what I'd do!) like everybody else...

[FcoXHR]

the conductor made karate at the beginning!! jajajaj

[nastyyyxD]

@FcoXHR ja,das war cool!

[bombardinoplayer]

curious fact: it is common supersticion amongst musicians that if this particular piece is performed in it's totallity, someone fairly well known dies, due to it's incredibly sad and strong character

[paradoxicus]

Actuación increíble en una de las partituras mas grandes jamás escritas.

[jabsomdoc]

you know whats bizarre is that i always feel like mravinsky and st. petersburg are the superior brahms interpretors, and karajan and berlin are the better tchaikovsky interpretors

[marcelojacomodasilva]

o final dessa sinfonia transmite uma agonia depressiva indescritivel. e por isso teria sido a melhor obra de tchaikovski na minha opiniao.

[cchamp27]

Wow this is an incredibly passionate performance, just as the title of the symphony insinuates. I can't think of another recording with as much gravitas, I love it. This Orchestra del Teatro alla Scala is probably used to performing operas and at this scant opportunity to perform some symphonic literature is really living it up

[LJBSasha]

I'm not that sure that the La Scala Orchestra is unused to doing symphonic concerts - from what I've seen of their programmes (not as much as I'd like), it seems that they get a reasonable number of opportunities at concerts even in this very theatre (not to mention that apparently they're renowned as Italy's best orchestra). In fact, it seems that the Teatro Alla Scala is also Milano's principal concert hall.

[TBC]

[LJBSasha]

[from prev. posting] One important indicator of the importance of Teatro alla Scala in Italy, betraying its being more than an opera/ballet house, is that they have a concert-sized Tamburini pipe-organ of 4 manuals, 96 ranks & ~5,000 pipes, way more than any stage works usually need!!

[Tamburini is one of Italy's 3 best and most-renowned organbuilders. This particular instrument used to be only 2 manuals with 1,916 pipes (at the time of Toscanini) - the enlargement was fairly recent...]

[LJBSasha]

Either way (and sorry for being so over-loquacious!!), the musicians play VERY beautifully - they clearly care for this piece and are quite afire! It's only the conductor whose interpretation hurts so very much!!!

[The feeling I get is that of somebody who still wants to LIVE and sees some justification for living - there's not enough of the pessimism, desperation, bitterness and final resignation that somehow I'd expect for somebody who's 'tasting' death (as it were)...]

[MariaCaIIas]

My argument was that as time goes by people tend to get slower than what the composers originally thought. That is also clearly seen in your comments. If this is a tendency that went further back than early eighteenth century, I will not debate. I actually agree that things did develop rather than getting there as a sudden conductor caprice...

As I said though I disagree that near-death-Chaykóvskiy is better expressed slow... Your opinion is respected and we are in agreement in many key points

[LJBSasha]

@MariaCaIIas: Thank you for your points! Certainly I've found it interesting arguing with you over tempi.

Recently I heard the following about Max Reger (whose specified tempi in his organ-works are still very fast all too often!) was not using the metronome the way you or I nowadays would, counting the beats on both sides of the apparatus - instead he would count the beats on only ONE side of the instrument, leading to the actual tempo being HALF the speed we would expect it to be.

[LJBSasha]

While I'm strongly doubtful that most, if any, other composers used metronomes that way, it still at least in his case does make for a radically-different feel for his music. Now, if perchance some of the others were like that, this would be a real money-wrench into matters...

[As to what was done in the 18th-century: one wonders if there was a big difference with what was done on organs of the day as opposed to the other instruments and the voice, given how clumsy actions could then be).]

[sprygeoffreya17]

I heard somewhere, a rumour that tchaikovsky was contemplating suicide, over an exposed scandal, when writing this piece. Do you know if this is true ?