JAMES GARNER AND THE GOODYEAR GRABBER BAJA AND BANSHEE OLDSMOBILE 442

[PanchoVanilla1]

What a fine man! Garner was so nice to me while he raced the Stroppe prepared Ford F-150s; I did not meet him until 1972, but talk about sheer guts! A famous Hollywood actor braving the Baja in those days???

No phones, agents, showers or schedules - just pre-run and race hard. BTW: Sorry about the audio getting scrapped - this copyright B.S. infringes on individual creativity - see the remedies available under Section 107 under the U.S. Title Code - it works for me! No sales; just history!

[Oldsfunguy]

Car Craft or Hot Rod did an article on this car. It turns out the engine was an all aluminum 410 cubic inch Olds. Based off of the small block. In effect and aluminum 403. There were three engines only and the restorer found one someplace and traded truck loads of cash. The car is restored and the guys gonna drive it like the original in one of the Baja races.

[badterrain]

SWEET!

[AGTW31]

he put a listing on an Olds board,said he had a bunch of NOS w-31 stuff,never heard from him again.that was a long time ago

[AGTW31]

some guy in cal is redoing one of these cars.

btw,i had a 77 delta 88,and it came with a 350 chevy.

[vistacruiser67]

I dont think the starter was an issue with GM. They surely have a 305 Chevy engine otion in 78 and 79 Cutlasses. The first Chevy motor appeared in some 77 Deltas. There are documented lawsuits as a result of this. Thats why on all the 80s GM ads you the disclaimer " GM CARS HAVE ENGINES THAT ARE PRODUCED BY OTHER GM SUBSIDIARIES." The reason these engines showed up in Olds is because there was a shortage of 350 Olds in 1977. Olds sold over 1 million cars in 77.

[vistacruiser67]

I saw a 301 Pontiac engine in a 77

Delta in the late 80s so I knew of this engine possibility as well. Olds engines burned cleaner than Pontiac and Chevy and were better suited to pass emissions. If this was not the case why was the Pontiac 400 banned in California Trans Ams and Formulas from 77-79 and replaced with the 403 Olds? By 79 the 403 Olds was in about 94,000 of the 109,000 79 TAs produced coast to coast. 79 was the highest production year for the TA.

[musclecrsrock]

So AWL3rd, is your uncle incoherent too?

[OldsPowered69]

wow, great vid!

-now i wanna find a 69 junker and make sum baja muscle, this needs to be on the list for 101 things a car guy needs to do before he dies...lolol

thx, op69

[coffeefish]

Very cool.

[Tracti0nAction]

Now that's something you don't see everyday! Good vid man, WMG is shutting everyone down though which is a bummer. :/

[1967PmdGto]

James Garner also drove the 77 Indy Olds Delta 88 Coupe pace car w/403. I was thrilled to hear that being my first car was a 77 Olds with a 403 that beat about everything in the school & WOULD beat anything from a 30mph or up start.

I believe I remember reading a long time ago, that the 77 Olds Pace car was the first pace car, or least itself--did not require any mods to run around the track at like 130mph with the Indy Cars. 403 and 2.41 like mine, makes total sense, THE HWY ENFORCER, LOL!

[Rocket4Barrel]

Yeah man, my Grandfather had a '78 Holiday 88 Coupe with the 403 that he bought new, bucket seats, console, moonroof, beautiful car, and yes that thing would fly. I remember him letting me detail it every so often while I was in high school, and taking it out and blowing away Mustang GT's, Camaros, Monte SS's. That car had torque out the ass. Had a '77 Cutlass Supreme and an '87 442. My folks had a '72 and the '77 Cutlass which became mine.

[1967PmdGto]

The Mustangs, Irocs, LOL I experienced that too. And either IT WAS TORQUE like you said and/or HP does not mean jack, or 1 Olds HP aint the same as 1 Chevy HP. Because my 1977 403 was only rated @185hp but beat 80s cars 100s of pounds lighter and rated in the 200s with 3.08/3.23 axles vs my 2.41. More weight, lower hp, higher gears, but I win, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?

Not sure on Olds ratings, but I know Pontiac used to rate their v8s hp in a 100 degree room compared to 60 for Chebby.

[vistacruiser67]

Theres a issue of Super Stock in 1980 covering a white 301 turbo TA I think. They were already reflecting back one year earlier lamenting over the disappearance of both the 400 Pontiac and 403 Olds. Super Stock somehow came to the conclusion in their own hp rating system that the 79 400 Pontiac at 220 hp was overrated and the 79 403 Olds at 185 was underrated. The 403 swelled over 200hp and the Pont may have fell below 200hp. Do you remember that issue? White TA with an orange bird.

[vistacruiser67]

I always thought the 79 403 TAs were unfairly underrated and compared to the 400 TAs. Like you said the rear axle ratios. The 403s always had circa 2.73 in the TAs where the Pont had the 3.08. Remember of the 109,000 79 Pontiac Trans Ams produced in 79 that 94,000 had the 403 Olds! 79 was the highest production for Trans Am!

[1967PmdGto]

Man thanks for telling me! I missed that 1 issue (figures) and until now had never heard that anyone other than myself and other Olds people questioned it's low rating.

Here is a comparison between a 400/403 you'll really be interested in. I owned a Pontiac 400 too, but first a 403. My 77 185hp/330 torque 403 single exh 2.41 in a 4191 lb car (per nascar specs) was a dead tie race w/my friend's 73 455 3.08 4300 lb Grandville conv w/factory dual exh rated at 250hp/370 torque.

Then later---

[1967PmdGto]

---I get a 73 GrandPrix pefect conditon 62k miles, 4001 lbs by nascar. Stock 3.23 dual exh 230hp/330 torque motor. Loses to my friend by 4 cars! After tuning, I could tie him until both cars shifted into 2nd @50mph, then he'd instantly jump out 1 and a 1/2 cars and win by that much. Pontiac people said--normal because the bigger 455 pulls harder in 2nd. I said --gee my 403 would beat him by a 1/2 car, other times lose by a 1/2 car, but both the pont455/olds403 pulled even thru all ranges!

[1967PmdGto]

PS---you probably already know this, I forgot to mention the stock 230hp/330torque engine in my 73GP was a pont400 with factory duals. 20 years later, still have the car but w/a 455

77 was the last year of full sized grand prixs, so 400 cubers were available in 77 though most were 301s/350s. BUT DID YOU KNOW SOME RARE 77 GRAND PRIXS HAD 403s!! I would love one of those, cool bodystyle, they are about 3900lbs or 3-hundred pounds lighter than my 77 custom cruiser, and 100 lighter than my 73gp.

[vistacruiser67]

I knew the 77 California Grand Prixs were subject to have the the 403available along with the 77 and 78 California and high altitude Trans Ams. Also check on the 77 California Pontiac Lemans with 350 Olds engines. There might be some 350 Olds in California Firebird Esprits from 77-79. They say the 403 Olds was a corporate engine from 77-79 and could pass the emissions test easier than the Pontiac 400.

[vistacruiser67]

Due to the high sales of the 77 Cutlass and the some 77 California Pontiac Lemans,  Grand Prix etc. there was a shortage of 350 Olds in 77 hence the use of 350 Chevys in some 77 Delta 88s and Cutlass Supremes. This resulted in lawsuits from Olds customers and the disclaimer you see on 80s ads: GM cars have engines produced by other GM subsidaires. Olds couldnt keep up with the demand for the engine.

[musclecrsrock]

The factory NEVER put Chevy engines in 1977 Cutlass Supremes, only Delta 88's

[vistacruiser67]

Well I would love for that to be true but the Chilton manual for 70-87 Cutlass list not only one but two Chevy engines available. VIN code L for the 350 Chev and VIN code U for the 305 Chev. Other engines included VIN code C for the 231 Buick v6; VIN code F for the 260 Olds V8; Vin code R for the 350 Olds; and VIN code K for the 403 Olds. No breakout of the production of each engine is available that Ive come across.

[musclecrsrock]

First, please take your Chiltons manual and throw it in the trash where it belongs. Anybody in the car repair business knows Chiltons is loaded with unreliable info and printed for the backyard mechanic. There were only 4 engine options on the 1977 Cutlass: the Buick 231 V-6, the Olds 260, The Olds 350R and the Olds 403. There were absolutely NO 1977 Cutlass models released with Chevy 350L engines from the factory

[1967PmdGto]

You are right, compared to a 400, the 403 was cleaner with it's smogger heads, etc-(I heard the 400 was banned in CA thus making the 403 to be used instead - in otherwise 400 cars), being cleaner was just one reason why Pontiac/Buick wanted to borrow so many Olds 350/403s. The heads/cam/intake don't flow as well as a 400 but due to it's superior design, bore/stroke, etc, it still equals or betters a 400 in power. And if built equal with older style heads/stuff it's gets even better.

[1967PmdGto]

I originally thought they got rid of the 400/403 in 80 because of the downsizing of engines. But I actually read somewhere that they were going to bring the 403 back in 80, but despite being very clean for it's time/size, the 403 failed the stricter 1980 emissions test (which would mean a 400 would fail for sure). Then they said the Olds 350 failed the 1981 test so it did not come back for 81. Makes sense, a 403 is reallly a 350 but just "super bored"out with bigger valves, etc.

[1967PmdGto]

Also 77 to 79 Valve sizes

Pontiac 400

2.11/1.66 (1973-79)

2.11/1.77 (1967-72)--I have these on my 455, it has 1972 400 GTO heads

Olds 403

2.00/1.5

So smaller valves in the smogger shit flowing heads for 403s. 442(.)com wrote ->the bore size on a 403 is much bigger than a 455'. That means it can use valves as big or bigger than a 455, and with less valve shrouding for the 403 than the 455. Usually, the most restrictive item in the whole intake port of an engine is the valves.

[vistacruiser67]

Thats interesting about the 403 and 350 Olds. Yeah the 307 replaced the 350 Olds around that time. 1980 list both engines. The 1980 Olds 442 was produced with the 350 Olds standard which was rumored to be the only Cutlass with the 350 Olds motor in 80. Only 886 were made in either black or white. They look like the 79 Hurst Olds only with 4 headlights and the chopped off front end and notchback styling. 80

Cutlasses are unique. We had the 350 Olds diesel block until 85 I think.

[vistacruiser67]

Yeah the 400 Pontiac was banned from 77-79 making the 403 Olds the hottest engine for those years in California and high altitudes. Theres a Pontiac book that breaks down the engines production for each car and tells about the Grand Prixs and Lemans too. Breaks down the Trans Ams by color and engine combo.

[vistacruiser67]

May 1980 Super Stock issue. Super Stock magazine called it their horsepower calculator that rated the 185 hp factory rating for the 403 Olds to 215 hp and took the 301 turbo Pontiac from 210 hp down to 185hp. 400 Pontiac wasnt mentioned. So according to Super stock the 403 Olds had 215hp from the factory and they dropped the 210hp for the 301 turbo to 185.

[1967PmdGto]

Yeah, another reason we know 185hp is bullcrap, that no one mentions, is this: The 77 Toronado w/403 was rated at 200hp, all the other 403 cars were 185. I've tried to find out why. Unless the books are lying -- same cam lift, carb numbers, intake numbers, head casting numbers, valve size, piston dish CC, etc. BUT WHAT IS THE ONE THING WE KNOW IS DIFFERENT?? A: The Toros had duals. Well so did TransAms, and probably better flowing than the Toro. But late 60s Toro 455s got better heads, etc.

[vistacruiser67]

I doubt the heads are any different on those 403s. Only difference I think might be some 403s in GMC motorhomes are solid webbed for greater block strength. Legend has it only 2500 solid web 403s were produced. GMC motorhomes were made on Toro front drive chassis from 73-79. 455s used from 73-76 and 403 from 77-79. Total of 12,000 or so made total many of which still on the road. Theyve got a good following. That 403 difference has nothing to do with performance though.

[1967PmdGto]

I would have loved to have your Grandad's coupe. Because you're gonna laugh, my 403 was in a 1977 Custom Cruiser. I had the cat conv removed--(back then they really robbed hp, some reports say 30hp), supertuned/ajusted carb/distributor, shift kit, but all stock parts. If you nailed it at 20mph even on perfect pavement it would jerk your neck hard and lay serious rubber--sometimes at 40mph too. My Grandma had a 77 Electra that for years we did not know had a 403 until she punched it 1 day, LOL.

[1967PmdGto]

My 403 pinged a lot unless it had 93 octane---& had a lot more power with 93, it would kick backwards & drag the starter on hot starts. These are characteristics of a high compression engine, not a 1977. Years later our mechanic had the heads off & said there was so much carbon on the pistons it was causing about 10to1 compression! The cause--> years earlier my mom drove the car 2 miles a day for years to take us to school in the 55 degree SF fog. It never got hot enough to burn the carbon off.

[1967PmdGto]

Funny thing is, the carbon stayed in there for years even after me driving it harder than hell in the 100 degree Dallas TX heat. I was a kid & asked the mechanic "shouldn't my racing burned the carbon off?". He said--not even your driving can get rid of it if it's been there for years prior, LOL. Things like trans fluid & top engine cleaner will, but I wasn't smart enough to know that then. Long story, but our mechanic owned the car at the time he pulled the heads, wish my folks never sold it.

[1967PmdGto]

David thanks for all the cool Olds vids, been too busy to say thanks. Really enjoyed the 1 where they shot for about 455hp out of a streetable 455. I've always said SUPERTUNING SUPERTUNING SUPER...! Well that engine was at around 320hp, I could totally tell she was lean with not enough timing--I was yelling-->don't replace more parts richen her up, time her! They boosted her by about 135hp thru tuning alone!--proving how important it is to retune/adjust when you change things like cams/intakes!