Thank you for this video. This behind the scenes is not only amazing, but utterly fascinating. Where did you happen to stumble upon these interviews again?
@Petitcreiu A warehouse in Oakland that we were borrowing had a number of old reel to reel tapes with various recorded material, stuff from radio, a local band the owner played in, records, etc. If you look at my Radio Shack Mobile Phone video, you can see some of the warehouse.
Final comment: glad to see you've already been corrected about your jazz comments, and accepted the criticism with grace! However I should also point out that Gershwin himself wasn't a jazz musician or jazz composer either though he was instrumental in introducing the French 'classical' composer Ravel to jazz, and was very friendly with most of the main jazz musicians of the era. He also hated all 'labels' in music (not least because none of them applied to him!).
This is a fascinating archive; thanks for posting it. But see my previous note for a correction of Grofé's false claims, which are, however, quite amusing (e.g. his remark at the time WE were writing it!!! lol). If every person who claimed to have written Gershwins music was telling the truth there would have been nothing left for Gershwin to write! How on earth poor Gershwin managed to write An American in Paris, Porgy and Bess, etc without Grofés help well never know!
For the sake of historical accuracy I must correct Ferde Grofé's false claim that he had a hand in persuading Gershwin to include the main slow theme in the Rhapsody in Blue. In Gershwin's own words (backed up by historians) the theme was written while working on the Rhapsody in December 1923, & the organic transformation of this theme within the work as whole proves that it could not have been a late unconnected insertion as Grofé claims but was conceived as part of the overall structure.
It would be difficult to correct him, seeing as he's "indisposed" at the time. 8) At least we have a small window into their working relationship through his own perspective, however much he wanted to embelish things. At this point, I'll take his word though. Let the music scholars split hairs.
Thanks for the reply. Not quite sure whose 'word' you mean: Grofé's or Gershwin's (as they don't match!). True, Grofé's description of collecting pages each day is fascinating and has been corroborated by the accounts of Paul Whiteman and Ira Gershwin. Thanks again for making this tape more widely available.
Its difficult to tell, since the announcer said that the interview was from 11 years from the time it was broadcast, but, there was no date on the reel. Best guess as to when the broadcast happened is the 60's (based on the dates on the other reels), which would have made the events Grofé talked about roughly 40 years difference. How many things do you remember from 40 years past? 8)
What else does Ferde Grofe say on the tape? Is that the whole thing? I am interested in the man himself apart from Whiteman and Gershwin, and I want to know if he says more besides what you have posted. Ferde Grofe wrote many other good orchestral suites besides the "Grand Canyon Suite" and also made many piano rolls for Ampico.
There was nothing else on the reel to reel. I played the whole thing. Nothing past Dvorak and the spiritual composers interests me musically, but, this was of historical nature, and its best to help other people who do have an interest.
That doesn't address the problem: Ferde Grofe has never been a "jazz pioneer" or "jazz legend" in any way shape or form. To call him such is just plain wrong. His biggest hit, Grand Canyon Suite, is standard orchestra repertoire. The proper and respectful thing for you to do is to correct your introduction. As for spelling, I've been in the music industry for 35 years and have never seen "Ferdie" in any scholastic source. A misspelling doesn't gain credibility by going online.
OK, you have a point about his name. I'm perfectly willing to fix that, since my access to information at the time I made this video was very limited. After all, I'm not in the music business. However, this video is about his working relationship with Gershwin, and in that sense, makes him a part of the creation of Jazz, since that was how Whiteman, & Gershwin were promoted at the time. I'm not sure how to change the introduction, beyond creating a totally new video.
Understood. Thank you for fixing the tagging; one stroke forward for online scholastic accuracy. The clip still helps the case for Grofe (Gershwin did all his own orchestration after RIB). Whiteman was a classically-trained academic who came late into jazz. His goal was to capture the essence of jazz on paper. Ken Burns' JAZZ series rectifies some common myths about Whiteman. However, Whiteman's main quest was to orchestrate popular/vernacular music, jazz notwithstanding. Thanks.
Too many jazz guys give Whiteman crap just because some publicist dubbed him the ":King of Jazz" and it stuck. He actually had, at various times, many great jazz musicians in his band, including Roy Bargy, Steve Brown, Eddie Lang, and Joe Venuti, etc. His 1927-29 band with Bix and all the rest was one of his best ever and produced some actual jazz records in addition to the usual dance and classical fare. The arrangements of the genius Bill Challis were another factor here.
Another thing: those same jazz historians treat Whiteman as though him and his semi-jazzy dance music were unique. Well, I've got news for them: it's NOT! Whiteman may have gotten there first (debatable), and had the biggest orchestra (less debatable) but certainly, there were dozens, if not hundreds, of such "hot dance bands" in the 1920's, who were equally accepted by the public and also usually kept at least one or two hot musicians for solos. It may not be jazz today, but it is acceptable.
Have you heard Grofe's "Mississippi Suite"? It's really good. I have a video of the Beau Hunks orchestra playing it at the Concertgebouw in the Netherlands. He also wrote many other suites such as "Wheels", "Tabloid", "Metropolis", etc. for which recordings and sheet music are relatively hard to find today. It would be nice if they were played more often.
There are many jazz elements in the grand canyon suite,and what he did with paul whiteman is pioneering[ somebody named ferde grofe jr. directed a movie called the day of the wolves with richard egan and rick jason ,he also wrote the music which consisted of the same guitar riff over and over I wonder if its his son ].
You get an A for putting this up, but an F (foot in mouth) for calling Ferde Grofe "a jazz legend." That's like calling football star Joe Montana a hockey player. CORRECTION: Ferde (correct spelling, not Ferdie) was a well-respected composer (Grand Canyon Suite) and orchestrator. He was a classical guy; his presence in the jazz world was limited at best. If you're putting something "historical" out in public, the respectful thing to do is a little research; it's not hard. Thanks again.
The websites I looked at spell his name both ways Ferdie/Ferde. Nothing beyond Brahms, Verdi, and Dvorak and their colaborators like Harry Burleigh should correctly be called a classical composer. A lot of musicians have a classical background, but, what is sponsored and what most musicians practice is diametrically opposed to the principle of classical music.
Sorry I took so long to comment on this video, but I didn't know you were in the game again.
Listening to your tape reminds me of Armed Forces Radio. Anyone who can get access to AFRS LP's would have a wealth of history. Sammy Davis Junior did a program, and some of his AFRS guest and interviews are legendary.
Hi Frank. I'm still around, just unable to upload at the time. There will be new stuff coming soon though, so stay tuned. What do the code breakers have to do with Jazz?
Rhapsody In Blue is one of the great musical masterpieces of the 20th. century. However, Ferdi Grofe's part in its creation as an orchestral piece is usually overlooked. The melody might have been Gershwin's, but the piece we all know and love is mostly Grofe. Thanks for posting.
Saying that RiB is "The Greatest of the 20th Century" is stretching it some. 8) I'm partial to the Negro Spirituals, which certainly rank as the highest expression of nobility & creativity in the last century. You're right about Grofe not getting his due for the piece though. This was certainly an interesting find.
The words I used were: "one of the great musical masterpieces of the 20th. century". Not many would take issue with that. There are certainly others - by Elgar, Mahler, Vaughan Williams, Ravel - and many more spring to mind.
No, Grofe wasn't a "legitimate" jazz composer or conductor, but his musical heritage is just as important as Gershwin's...and SHOULD be better known.
fromthesidelines 1 year ago
Thank you for this video. This behind the scenes is not only amazing, but utterly fascinating. Where did you happen to stumble upon these interviews again?
Petitcreiu 1 year ago
@Petitcreiu A warehouse in Oakland that we were borrowing had a number of old reel to reel tapes with various recorded material, stuff from radio, a local band the owner played in, records, etc. If you look at my Radio Shack Mobile Phone video, you can see some of the warehouse.
Amiduffer 1 year ago
you hate jazz? YOU ANIMAL!!! ;)
bill291212 2 years ago
Final comment: glad to see you've already been corrected about your jazz comments, and accepted the criticism with grace! However I should also point out that Gershwin himself wasn't a jazz musician or jazz composer either though he was instrumental in introducing the French 'classical' composer Ravel to jazz, and was very friendly with most of the main jazz musicians of the era. He also hated all 'labels' in music (not least because none of them applied to him!).
jackgibbonspiano 2 years ago
This is a fascinating archive; thanks for posting it. But see my previous note for a correction of Grofé's false claims, which are, however, quite amusing (e.g. his remark at the time WE were writing it!!! lol). If every person who claimed to have written Gershwins music was telling the truth there would have been nothing left for Gershwin to write! How on earth poor Gershwin managed to write An American in Paris, Porgy and Bess, etc without Grofés help well never know!
jackgibbonspiano 2 years ago
@jackgibbonspiano How true, so easy to claim credit for pieces of music when the composer is long dead.
olebarca99 1 month ago
For the sake of historical accuracy I must correct Ferde Grofé's false claim that he had a hand in persuading Gershwin to include the main slow theme in the Rhapsody in Blue. In Gershwin's own words (backed up by historians) the theme was written while working on the Rhapsody in December 1923, & the organic transformation of this theme within the work as whole proves that it could not have been a late unconnected insertion as Grofé claims but was conceived as part of the overall structure.
jackgibbonspiano 2 years ago
It would be difficult to correct him, seeing as he's "indisposed" at the time. 8) At least we have a small window into their working relationship through his own perspective, however much he wanted to embelish things. At this point, I'll take his word though. Let the music scholars split hairs.
Amiduffer 2 years ago
Thanks for the reply. Not quite sure whose 'word' you mean: Grofé's or Gershwin's (as they don't match!). True, Grofé's description of collecting pages each day is fascinating and has been corroborated by the accounts of Paul Whiteman and Ira Gershwin. Thanks again for making this tape more widely available.
jackgibbonspiano 2 years ago
Its difficult to tell, since the announcer said that the interview was from 11 years from the time it was broadcast, but, there was no date on the reel. Best guess as to when the broadcast happened is the 60's (based on the dates on the other reels), which would have made the events Grofé talked about roughly 40 years difference. How many things do you remember from 40 years past? 8)
Amiduffer 2 years ago
What else does Ferde Grofe say on the tape? Is that the whole thing? I am interested in the man himself apart from Whiteman and Gershwin, and I want to know if he says more besides what you have posted. Ferde Grofe wrote many other good orchestral suites besides the "Grand Canyon Suite" and also made many piano rolls for Ampico.
KawhackitaRag 3 years ago
There was nothing else on the reel to reel. I played the whole thing. Nothing past Dvorak and the spiritual composers interests me musically, but, this was of historical nature, and its best to help other people who do have an interest.
Amiduffer 3 years ago
That doesn't address the problem: Ferde Grofe has never been a "jazz pioneer" or "jazz legend" in any way shape or form. To call him such is just plain wrong. His biggest hit, Grand Canyon Suite, is standard orchestra repertoire. The proper and respectful thing for you to do is to correct your introduction. As for spelling, I've been in the music industry for 35 years and have never seen "Ferdie" in any scholastic source. A misspelling doesn't gain credibility by going online.
WilliamsportSymphony 3 years ago
OK, you have a point about his name. I'm perfectly willing to fix that, since my access to information at the time I made this video was very limited. After all, I'm not in the music business. However, this video is about his working relationship with Gershwin, and in that sense, makes him a part of the creation of Jazz, since that was how Whiteman, & Gershwin were promoted at the time. I'm not sure how to change the introduction, beyond creating a totally new video.
Amiduffer 3 years ago
Understood. Thank you for fixing the tagging; one stroke forward for online scholastic accuracy. The clip still helps the case for Grofe (Gershwin did all his own orchestration after RIB). Whiteman was a classically-trained academic who came late into jazz. His goal was to capture the essence of jazz on paper. Ken Burns' JAZZ series rectifies some common myths about Whiteman. However, Whiteman's main quest was to orchestrate popular/vernacular music, jazz notwithstanding. Thanks.
WilliamsportSymphony 3 years ago
Too many jazz guys give Whiteman crap just because some publicist dubbed him the ":King of Jazz" and it stuck. He actually had, at various times, many great jazz musicians in his band, including Roy Bargy, Steve Brown, Eddie Lang, and Joe Venuti, etc. His 1927-29 band with Bix and all the rest was one of his best ever and produced some actual jazz records in addition to the usual dance and classical fare. The arrangements of the genius Bill Challis were another factor here.
KawhackitaRag 3 years ago
Another thing: those same jazz historians treat Whiteman as though him and his semi-jazzy dance music were unique. Well, I've got news for them: it's NOT! Whiteman may have gotten there first (debatable), and had the biggest orchestra (less debatable) but certainly, there were dozens, if not hundreds, of such "hot dance bands" in the 1920's, who were equally accepted by the public and also usually kept at least one or two hot musicians for solos. It may not be jazz today, but it is acceptable.
KawhackitaRag 3 years ago
Have you heard Grofe's "Mississippi Suite"? It's really good. I have a video of the Beau Hunks orchestra playing it at the Concertgebouw in the Netherlands. He also wrote many other suites such as "Wheels", "Tabloid", "Metropolis", etc. for which recordings and sheet music are relatively hard to find today. It would be nice if they were played more often.
KawhackitaRag 3 years ago
There are many jazz elements in the grand canyon suite,and what he did with paul whiteman is pioneering[ somebody named ferde grofe jr. directed a movie called the day of the wolves with richard egan and rick jason ,he also wrote the music which consisted of the same guitar riff over and over I wonder if its his son ].
spacepatrolman 2 years ago
You get an A for putting this up, but an F (foot in mouth) for calling Ferde Grofe "a jazz legend." That's like calling football star Joe Montana a hockey player. CORRECTION: Ferde (correct spelling, not Ferdie) was a well-respected composer (Grand Canyon Suite) and orchestrator. He was a classical guy; his presence in the jazz world was limited at best. If you're putting something "historical" out in public, the respectful thing to do is a little research; it's not hard. Thanks again.
WilliamsportSymphony 3 years ago
The websites I looked at spell his name both ways Ferdie/Ferde. Nothing beyond Brahms, Verdi, and Dvorak and their colaborators like Harry Burleigh should correctly be called a classical composer. A lot of musicians have a classical background, but, what is sponsored and what most musicians practice is diametrically opposed to the principle of classical music.
Amiduffer 3 years ago
What a great find -- thanks for sharing! "Niagra Falls Suite" is a favorite of mine.
b0rg9 3 years ago
You're very welcome.
Amiduffer 3 years ago
What about code breakers?
Sorry I took so long to comment on this video, but I didn't know you were in the game again.
Listening to your tape reminds me of Armed Forces Radio. Anyone who can get access to AFRS LP's would have a wealth of history. Sammy Davis Junior did a program, and some of his AFRS guest and interviews are legendary.
Frank
ockteby 3 years ago
Hi Frank. I'm still around, just unable to upload at the time. There will be new stuff coming soon though, so stay tuned. What do the code breakers have to do with Jazz?
Amiduffer 3 years ago
I'll never tell ;-)
ockteby 3 years ago
Uh oh. Mystery time. 8)
Amiduffer 3 years ago
Rhapsody In Blue is one of the great musical masterpieces of the 20th. century. However, Ferdi Grofe's part in its creation as an orchestral piece is usually overlooked. The melody might have been Gershwin's, but the piece we all know and love is mostly Grofe. Thanks for posting.
Barndog44 3 years ago
Saying that RiB is "The Greatest of the 20th Century" is stretching it some. 8) I'm partial to the Negro Spirituals, which certainly rank as the highest expression of nobility & creativity in the last century. You're right about Grofe not getting his due for the piece though. This was certainly an interesting find.
Amiduffer 3 years ago
The words I used were: "one of the great musical masterpieces of the 20th. century". Not many would take issue with that. There are certainly others - by Elgar, Mahler, Vaughan Williams, Ravel - and many more spring to mind.
Barndog44 3 years ago
You're right, sorry for misinterpreting the word.
Amiduffer 3 years ago
very interesting interview. great information. Thanks
homousios 3 years ago
You're welcome.
Amiduffer 3 years ago