Drugs & Alcohol Addiction, Not A Disease

[kimbonut]

Addiction is only a disease so people can get their section 8 housing and other free crap the government hands out. But, the government isn't all to blame! Look how hard the drug companies pushed to have addiction legally classified as a disease. If they don't have you hooked on oxy's they will have you hooked on depression med's

[says007]

Why debate one of THE ONLY successful means or method at battling this disease

It is a disease, it is not a disease?!?!! No scientists, phys-co annalist, therapist, research developers, fact finders can take credit for the success of this very theory. Alcoholics Anonymous approach has helped save millions of life's, the life's of "self diagnosed Alcoholics yes, this is a voluntary diagnoses, admitting that a persons drinking, is, the root of a problem. Doctors have no cure to date, ENUF SIAD!

[tomcttr]

I never chose to stop drinkomh

[tomcttr]

Just because I Myself don't believe alcoholism is a disease per say, dosn't mean that I don't believe its a soul sickness, an illness of sort, a spiritual malady and please do not equate drug addiction and alcoholism as the same its not! I was powerless before AA showed me a power greater than myself that I could trust and believe in. Thank God for AA because I for one was rudderless with no direction and its worked for over 19 years now and if I could have stopped befor that I would have.

[suzieedo]

@tomcttr with all due respect...ALCOHOL is a drug!

[NWBE4ST]

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;Courage to change the things I can;And wisdom to know the difference. that all i have to say !

[ndrthrdr1]

AA told me that I am powerless over my drinking. I did have power over my drinking, I just wasn't using it. When I realized that AA's program (12 steps) was actually faith healing, I looked elsewhere (Rational Recovery and SMART Recovery) and found the self-confidence to quit drinking. I haven't touched a drop in 2 1/2 years by having faith in myself.

[Dupstepfreakah]

@ndrthrdr1 And that proves the point that it's not a disease, you chose to stop because you believed in yourself to stop, you can't do that in the matter of cancer, aids, progeria and many other diseases.

Alcoholism is a matter of free will and pure mind power aka it's a choice.

[thesockmonkeygeorge]

@ndrthrdr1 Same here. Thirty one years without drinking. It was my problem to start, my problem to fix. Higher power to stop? Sure. I am that higher power. Too many whining alcoholics out there who need to stop blaming "disease" for their own self-indulgence. .

[PatriotsRepublic]

Its never involuntary. It is always voluntary. Even at the worst stages of physical addiction, it is still a choice. Now I'll grant that the choice to not drink any longer when you are physically addicted means understanding you're going to purposely cause yourself pain and illness. But there is always a choice to say no, to not do drugs or drink. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something or is in complete denial of their own series of bad choices.

[darrylduke]

By sheer definition, addiction would be considered a disease. Also, AA does refer to alcoholism as an illness. However, after 15 years of sobriety, with my first 8 being a member of AA, I don't care if it's a disease, a disorder, or if I'm an alcoholic. My sobriety has been about changing and growing as a person. I also grew more spiritual and not only became happy in life, but happy with who I was. No one made me choose to drink, but my fears and insecurities had a lot to do with it.

[tomcttr]

Ok I'm a recovered Alcoholic My sobriety date is march 10 1992 I'm an active member of AA and I have never believed it being a disease No where in the first 164 pages of the basic text does it claim it to be a disease. Besides most of us has found a spiritual solution and stay away from the medical viewpoint . I am no longer powerless , my life is no longer unmanageable AA has done its job I have found that power greater than me and I am grateful

[caca26rod]

@tomcttr

The Big book cleary states that we suffer from a SPIRITUAL DISEASE ! I am also a recovered alcoholic and recovered drug addict

[SmileysRevenge100]

A.A. takes people who are already week and vulnerable, breaks their already fragile mental state by telling them their powerless, and then shoves their own personal superstitious, religious dogma down their throats.

[ianslass]

If you are powerless, you have NO power---none. But you do have the power, it's called CHOICE. Choosing NOT to drink or do drugs or what have you. AND if you so CHOOSE, you can ask God to help give you the strength that will help you over come choosing to use.

[mdcombs79]

I found the CURE for addiction and I have proof for this claim. Click on my name and witness Powerful Stories of Freedom. I personally know and have witnessed over 100 addicts who have found True and Lasting FREEDOM after being enslaved by their addictions for so long. I have been through many programs for my addiction, but have never found so much Hope, Joy, Peace, and Love than I have in the program I am in now. And the people I know who have given their stories are experiencing the same!

[pysauno]

i wont have anywhere to live..because i listened to myself i told myself it would be a good idea..i felt i would of died if didnt get my morning dose of heroin... i have 51 days of sobritey and moving into a halfway house friday!! im doing alot better im grateful for every breath i take today

[Mrjoepizza123]

I am a 71 year old exheroin addict...after many years in Narcotics anonymous..I came to the realization that addiction was not a disease...it was learned behavior that started during my most formitive years..fear thinking , the illusions of a young child confronted with the boogieman,& god...two very illusional concepts that threatened to kick my butt, if I wasn't a good boy, Learned behavior from day 1 no disease there. Spare us the doctors,religion,government & emotionally deficent parents.

[pysauno]

@Mrjoepizza123 im also a heroin addict...  drugs change the brain chemistry hence why its called a brain diesease... and we all know how complex the brain is ... and when your brain is exposed to these drugs for such long periods of time.. that part of the brain gets altered so negativly it changes! .. the limbic system which deals with decision making and pleasure.. is hijacked and you will do anything to get your drug of choice? why else would i steal jewelry and a car knowing

[ricardesign01]

CAN SOMEONE EST translate / SPANISH VIDEO AS URGENT NEED TO

[prschuster]

The disease model is meaningless because the definition of addiction involves everything from genetics to cravings to withdrawal symptoms to subsequent organ damage to "dry drunk" behavior when not using. So, if you try to have a discussion about addiction as a disease, the subject keeps changing from one aspect to the other - like trying to get hold of a greased pig. It's a verbal shell game.

[Ballistic1632]

these people are totally uneducated, they have no right to talk about addiction or aa while none of them are addicts. Once one is addicted there is no way to safely return to drinking or using, its proven, these are people that are born with a progressive disease that starts to gradually get worse after the first drink/ drug is taken

[leaderOFlosers]

Cancer is a disease, alcoholism is an addiction.

[redwineisfine]

@leaderOFlosers EXACTLY! 

[Stkieran]

The brain of an addict is not normal. Gene expression, glucose utilisation and response to environmental cues change in an addict, and these are just a few examples. Addiction is a disease, and not just psychological. Don't take my word for it; do some research. Just please, PLEASE use more credible sources than a circle of girls with lay knowledge basing their discussion off one psychologist

[SSTTEEAALLTTHH]

@Stkieran

Gene expression also get's altered as result of a disease, gene expression doesn't cause diseases. I'm not commenting on the possible pathology, but this is just terminology. When you are talking about altered gene expression, whether it be in cancer or infections, the disease has, by terminology, already occurred. So in that sense you're explanation would mean alcoholism is not caused by a disease,

[Stkieran]

@SSTTEEAALLTTHH

Altered gene expression can cause disease, I have no idea why you think it can't. Cancer, as an example, can be caused by increased proto-oncogene expression from a virus. Many genetic diseases can also be caused by altered gene expression, not just mutations. Also, addiction to something can cause you to find a product as specific as alcohol. Just look at smokers.

[SSTTEEAALLTTHH]

@Stkieran

As i said, when cancer occurs, tumor formation has already happened in a cascade leading to altered gene expression and mutations. Cancer is used to describe a nan- or dysplastic invasive tumor.

Other than that, i don't know why i wrote that. I was trying to get my thoughts in text, but found it difficult to find them. Now i did: intoxication and excessive drinking leading up to alcoholism, is something you have to go do on your own, you can't blame your genes for that.

[SSTTEEAALLTTHH]

@Stkieran

No disease is going to be so specific though, that it will cause you to go out and find a product as specific as alcohol to consume. No matter what you think of it, no educated person with a clue of pathology can deny this. You're body does not by itself require alcohol, unlike fatty acids, sugar, proteins and water.

[SSTTEEAALLTTHH]

@Stkieran

There is no way your brain will short-circuit and you will suddenly feel the need to drink 2 liters of booze. So the cell-alterations and gene-expression you describe are much more probable a result of intoxication rather than a cause, which can lead to addiction, no doubt. So those kinds of adaptations of your cells to intoxication definitely lead to an addiction and augment it, but no way will they cause it for products as specific as alcohol, meth-amphetamine or heroine etc

[SSTTEEAALLTTHH]

@Stkieran

Alcohol is a toxin, a radical which your body really doesn't want. So saying it's cell alterations that cause you to suddenly begin to go out, search for and excessively consume it, would be like going out to look for mercury to drink. There is no gene that creates receptors that measure the alcohol in your blood to mutate, unlike sugars etc. Alcohol send a false signal of high energy to your brain. Cell alterations are a consequence of alcohol consumption, not a cause.

[Stkieran]

@SSTTEEAALLTTHH

Alcohol isn't just a toxin. Firstly, it doesn't send a false signal of high energy, because alcohol does provide a lot of energy, so you're credibility isn't off to a flying start =/ I'm not trying to say addiction is a spontaneous disease, but once you start drinking often enough, it will alter the chemistry in your brain so you crave more.

[SSTTEEAALLTTHH]

@Stkieran

Yes it does... You need to freshen up your metabolism-classes. Ever heard of NADHP and NADH? That's the pathway alcohol messes with, by interaction sending your brain signals there is enough of theses energy-carriers when in reality, there is not.

Yes, as i said, alcoholism can alter gene expression. Gene expression does not cause intoxication. You have to go do that yourself. No gene is responsible for that.

[screamolives]

it's not a disease. You can't call having depression a disease so why an addiction? obvious answer is no.

[Stkieran]

@screamolives

Depression is considered a disease...

[screamolives]

@Stkieran No it's not, I study psychology and sociology. It used to be.

[Stkieran]

@screamolives

I study physiology and neuroscience, and it still is

[SSTTEEAALLTTHH]

@Stkieran

I study Biomedical Sciences and there are pathological effects/causes for depressions such as low serotonin-levels. It is however still unclear which one is the cause and which is the effect and whether it's the same for all individuals.

I have no doubt some people just need to get a spine and stop acting self-pitifull, but i have no doubt either that if you've got a genetic hormonal imbalance, happy movies aren't going to help you.

[evrithnguneed]

In AA literature, it is stated that alcoholism is a SPIRITUAL DISEASE, NOT ONE AS DEFINED BY MEDICAL TERMINOLOGY. It is also referred to as an "allergy", & a "defect of character." In fact the Big Book says "doctors could not help us." THERE IS LITTLE, IF ANY SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FOR THE DISEASE MODEL. PERIOD. Instead of attending pity parties in church basements, how about you deal with the problems in your lives that makes you want to drink? It works if you work it!

[witchcerridwen]

i have been addicted to cocaine and heroin.and i can tell you this,if there is addiction in your family then stay away from all addictive things.and even if it is a desease you still have to make a desision against it if you wanna stop.most of the time it is just as you say i cannot help it.that is a lie because you can do something about it.but you may need a little support and love.im clean for years now because i made a choice and took responsability.

[syntaxburn]

Its simple: Addiction is a disease of affected choice. That's it. The first time I drank, I got really drunk. My internal condition- call it depression, call it insecurity, call it whatever you want, was such that when I discovered alcohol intoxication it was a big deal. I got sick and knew that I wanted to drink again. Most 12yr olds who get drunk and vomit all over themselves immediately say- "I will never do that again". Alcoholism is a disease.

[fps44]

Dolly a song about alcoholism is a song written by a young girl about her neighbor. If you don't think your alcoholism has an affect on everyone around you, you should listen to this song. "Dolly a song about alcoholism" by Sasha Yatchenko

[RUInternational]

There is hope for the Hopeless that are struggling with addiction. Reformers Unanimous is a faith-based addictions program. We maintain an 82% percent success rate! Check us out @Ruinternational.

[prschuster]

The real issue about the disease model of addiciton is that it takes a few sketchy pieces of evidence for genetic predispositions or brain pathologies and then it tries to force the bogus conclusion that behavior is so irreversibly affected by this "brain disease" that the addict is incapable of making rational decisions. Then they use words like "denial" and "relapse" to justify the claim that these addicts can't think for themselves and that the decision to resume use is a medical ciondition.

[ajruthsing]

well balanced chat. I was with the two in the middel. But enjoyed everything that was said. It was said with care and respect loved it.

[ladyislandGU]

Drug and Alcohol disease is by choice, but who introduced these drugs in the first place? My opinion? Western Culture that promote media and products. Think back in time.

THE MARBORO MAN .....In the theaters

VIRGINA SLIM ........ Aimed at women

BUD WISER ............Alcohol Ads

Why did these things get introduced to man knowing it's harmful long term affects? We live in a Society now that is completely ignored by publicity to earn revenue. Don't blaime the kids.

[Eternity735]

I start loving my mornings ever since i stop drinking.

[11visionary11]

Drug,alcohol abuse and eating disorders are NOT diseases...its a choice. Sure some find it harder to quit, but being hard doesnt make it a "disease"..

Ppl are just afraid to offend any one or not be PC.

What I cant belive is that this is not common sense.

[Amuck14]

Well it's because I help and not hurt, I love the wildest drunks that come through the door, I do something every day for someone who is hurting and not tell them about it. I help by listening, I help by taking people to doctors appointments, at the end of the day, I serve my fellow man in the way it was intended.. You and your group seek to do nothing but harm. Self righteous , nihilistic, megalomaniacs is all you are. that why they don't kick me out, should have tried it when you were there.

[joanpen1]

After any pleasure there is let down and recovery involving dopamine.Addiction is that of too down -too long. Here is a model using hypothetical numbers for dopamine :Non addictive person =level 3 dopamine in the resting state- go to 4 after usage-then drops to 2 after cessation and return to 3 after interval. Addict =level 2 resting state go to 4 and drop to 1 after cessation - not a tolerable level and then a LONG return to 2 Applicable also to non drug addiction i.e., gambling

[Amuck14]

Alcoholism and addiction. two different things........

[Hammersley1967]

Yes...

One addict selects ethanol as the object of addiction...

Then other chooses some other psychoactive substance...

Big difference!!!

[Amuck14]

Anyone who injects moriphene for 30 days straight will be physically addicted. No human escapes that. Someone who drinks alcohol for 30 days straight who is not an alcoholic will not be addicted. We have argued this before. Its pointless to try and convince you that the alcoholic has a different reation to alcohol than a non alcoholic. As clear as it is, some just cant accept it. Oh well~

[Hammersley1967]

"Anyone who injects moriphene for 30 days straight will be physically addicted. No human escapes that. Someone who drinks alcohol for 30 days straight who is not an alcoholic will not be addicted. We have argued this before"

We HAVE argued this before and I clearly demonstrated that this is a fallacy with scientific evidence.

I assumed that when you stopped reply posting, you "got the point". I guess not.

I gave conclusive, peer-reviewed scientific evidence and you gave nothing but anecdote.

[Amuck14]

Dont remeber hammer but will take your word as you have been straight with me. Here is all I can say, I know for certain that any human who injects a opiate for 30-60 days will have a physical addiction. Do you agree? I also know plenty of people who drink everyday, and on the occasion that they dont they make no mention of it. So I dont what to say about that? Dont mean to sound redundant, what was it you showed me?

[Hammersley1967]

[a]

"Here is all I can say, I know for certain that any human who injects a opiate for 30-60 days will have a physical addiction. Do you agree?"

I think that our difference of opinion could be a matter of semantics.

I agree that ANYONE who administers an opiate intravenously for 40 days or more will develop a PHYSICAL DEPENDENCY.

By "physical dependency" I mean that the normal physiological homeostasis of the body is altered by chronic frequent opiate use.

[Hammersley1967]

[b]

Upon cessation of use and withdrawal - when the altered physiological homeostasis returns to normal - unpleasant physical symptomology is experienced.

But "addiction"?

I define that as psycho-emotionally "driven" craving...

I'll use my father as an example: He returned from the Vietnam War physically dependent on heroin. Upon cessation of use, he experienced physical withdrawal symptoms but NO craving for the drug.

He used the drug as a means to cope with a traumatic environment...

[Hammersley1967]

"Anyone who injects moriphene for 30 days straight will be physically addicted."

THAT'S not even correct...

My wife had a bilateral lung transplant in February this year. She was on IV morphine for 33 days in hospital and the best part of a week on tablets at home.

Physically addicted?

No physiological discomfort (besides thoracic pain from the procedure) upon cessation of morphine administration.

Now another 30 days? Maybe...

Depends on the dose, titration, individual physiology, etc...

[joanpen1]

Look for neurotransmitters failure to return to a comfortable level-after cessation of drug. After any pleasurable activity dopamaine drops but it comes back .for most people. Does it for an addict? Either the drug mixes up the transmitters or their level was precariously low in the first place. Why doesn't Heyman address this ? If he doesn't he's just offering his opinion without going through the rigors of scientific thought. This theory could be wrong but it needs looking at!

[Hammersley1967]

"After any pleasurable activity dopamine drops but it comes back .for most people. Does it for an addict?"

Thanks for posing this as a question.

The jury is out on this.

I have been researching this area of investigation for 2 years now.

Promising avenues of investigation (such as Dr Eric Nestler's [MD, PhD] work on the effects of the protein ΔFosB on the nucleus accumbens in the cerebral cortex) have been opened up but virtually all have led to biomedical dead ends...

[joanpen1]

look for failure of neurotransmitters to reurn to a comfortable level science!

[fratorchaosway]

agreed

[PotheadPundit]

I have a disease that makes me addicted to cigarettes ;)