BJ Penn is a respected 3 time champion of the UFC (and defended his title 2 times and dominated Sanchez in UFC 107) And he is not japanese i do not think
yup BJ Penn is amazing - one of my favorites. He's not japanese but i meant that japanese mma organisations play videos like this one where you can see the person training and not talking trash
"HEY GUYS.i made a new account and i decided to show people wat mma is all about. i am a boxer and a juijitsu white belt, im going to give people a chance to see me grow as a mixed martial artist. ill be bloging and posting my training sessions and tournements, come subscribe and watch me grow as a person, watch me grow as a mixed martial artist with Renzo Gracie and Gleasons boxing gym."
the mute button. it works. trust me, i used it, i know.
...and if there wasn't any commentating, you'd just hear the guys breathing and grunting, so it's not like the commentating is blocking out other interesting sounds...
BJ Penn is the best 155 lbs fighter int he world. The scary thing though is that he doesn't train as hard as many fighters. I'm not saying he doesn't train hard (like many do), but I do wonder what would happen if he trained even harder.
bj pretty muched owned charuto i feel bad for kenny especially since kenny trained with bj and said bj is on another world kenny better keep this fight on the feet
Yes, but not butt scooting is a simple adjustment. Not something you see Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners do in MMA (and everyone not doing Judo, Sambo, or some form of catch wrestling in MMA practices BJJ).
The emphasis in BJJ is on Newaza clearly. So in competitions disengaging from your opponent goes completely against the art.
There are a few things in Judo that are quite different from BJJ. Opponents turtling and simply waiting to be stood up instead of working to re-gain the guard.
I managed to talk a friend who was a 3 stripe blue belt in BJJ to give my Judo club a shot. He gave the black belts fits with the exception of one who held a purple belt in BJJ.
I'm not saying that either art is better, they compliment each other incredibly well. But I am saying that many Judoka's ground games are built around a specific rule set. When you take that rule set away and turn the fight into a straight grappling match, some glaring holes can be made apparent.
the point is in DAMAGE!...modern day Judo crap is all about pins and ippons,but in BJJ you MUST finish with a sub! Second thing is if BJJ guy wants to go down,great...but Judoka is fucked and we all know that gravity is in action!
As with wrestling, judo gives you the advantage och choosing where the fight takes place. In a one on one fight on grass or sand outside, id pick bjj in a heartbeat if that was the only martial art i was allowed to use. But imagen a barfight, some dude tries to attack you, what do you want to do? id rather throw his ass into something hard than pulling guard with the risk of getting my face by his friends. Almost every martial art i know of have situations where theyre practical.
Not to say that there aren't areas in which Judoka excel with regards to grappling. They can pin you like a stone, and because of competition rules are used to working and submitting opponents quite fast. They can also throw you to the ground and land straight into a dominant positon (and sometimes in competition a TERRIBLE position if grappling was allowed to continue.)
true, I respect your opinion. And I appreciate that you see that the positioning that is so important in judo is valuable in all forms of grappling. But, also remember that the rules of bjj are also not "real". Think about mma when they scoot around on their butts so they don't have to get hit and think about the new rules where once you're down you aren't allowed to disengage. This last rule is especially funny because too many wrestlers were able to beat bjj players on take downs.
So, because bjj wasn't able to unleash its' effectiveness against people with strong pinning skills they simply changed the rules. Does that sound like "real world" fighting? The organizing body u.b.j.j. wanted to force people to play a certain type of game. This is no different than judo standing people up for stalemates. The only difference is judo is more exciting to watch i.m.o.
From the guard you have tons of options for submitting your opponent or sweeping them to a dominant position.
I've also seen Judoka stood up when their opponent has them in a very dominant position.
Far too often I see Judoka throwing their opponents and landing in precarious positions. Throwing another grappler and ending up with your back to them would not be wise outside of judo rules.
Again though, they're both great arts. Train them both and you fix the problems with each system.
I've trained both BJJ and Judo, and while the Judo school put a solid amount of emphasis on the ground, it's still nowhere near as much as BJJ.
Throws are what Judo is about, so even at a good school they're going to be the emphasis. Best case scenario(usually) is you train 50/50. And even that's that's only half as much as most Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners.
Don't get me wrong, there are some Judoka with very good ground games.
noone in the UFC lightweigt division is a better grappler than bj,demian maia is a better grappler than bj and thalas leites possibly is to there both UFC middleweights.
Would love to see a BJ Penn Kid yamamoto match. Both excellent strikers and grappelers. BJ may prevail but i beleive Kid would give him a run for his money and also test his chin
BJ looks like a spider completely overwhelming his prey. I've never seen him in trouble, never rocked by a solid punch, never in danger of submission. Wouldn't mind seeing him floored cause of his whinning, complaining mouth, but that just ain't gonna happen. Probably would actually do him some good, perhaps he would be a more gracious champion.
Good discussion guys. You seem to know your stuff. My opinion is that if BJ is matched up with a superior grappler in the UFC is that he will use his takedown defense to keep the fight standing. I would love to see him and Maia fight but Im not sure the weight difference will make that match likely. It would be awesome though.
I know bj is great. But, I only ever see videos with him on top or highlights of him winning from the bottom. I started to doubt his greatness because I'm sure there are plenty of bjj or judo experts who could give him a run for his money. The fact that we don't see any of these challenges make me question everything. There is no one from japan or brazil that can compete with him? I don't know any sport that is that one sided.
Are you talking about BJJ or MMA? Penn is phenomenal at both but noone argues that there is no one who can compete with him. In MMA, GSP has competed with him well. In BJJ, Penn no longer competes but would have a terrible time with plenty of guys, like Marcelo Garcia. In pure Judo, obviously Penn would get wooped by the top guys. Not sure what your point is - can you clarify?
What I'm saying is it seems shady that mma hasn't given him a fight where he isn't the best on the ground. I'm sure there are numerous fighters that could give him a run in the ground game. Why haven't we seen these match ups? Are the promoters protecting penn's reputation? Or is mma still not evolved enough to offer a world class ground player who could compete on the ground with Penn? Why don't we see anyone challenge him in grappling?
There honestly aren't a lot of guys at this moment in MMA in his weight class who can outgrapple Penn at pure submission grappling. Maybe Marcelo Garcia, who isn't in the UFC, and who probably wouldn't be able to get Penn down, and would get eaten alive by Penn on his feet. I believe GSP's wrestling will be so great that he will nullify Penn on the ground (though, being a Penn fan, I hope I am wrong).
First off, thanks for having a discussion with me on the subject. Most of the time you end up arguing with a bunch of white belts in bjj who don't really know what they're talking about but have a one sided opinion. I agree with you that penn is awesome but I think there are people out there who can give him a run and we don't ever see those fights done. How about aoki from japan? His style is similar to penn's I think. What do you think?
Thanks for the intelligent discussion as well. It happens I had the exact same idea about Aoki being a great matchup for Penn but it seems often hard to get fighters into the UFC from other promotions, especially Japanese fighters. I'd also love to see some good Brazilian grapplers or any grapplers come in and take on Penn - the other weight classes have an influx lately of guys like Maia, Almeida, Leites, etc.
I think japan has as many great ground players as brazil. Why does everyone forget that they do judo in public schools and college just like we do wrestling here. Yeah brazil made bjj but japan made jj and judo. I wish we could get their good fighters over here.
common misconception. Take it from someone whoe has done olympic style judo and sport bjj. Judo roles just as much. The difference is the rules that stand players up if someone is stalling. This allows the more conditioned athlete to push the pace. Both sports are the same, the difference is in the scoring.
That is correct, a lot of BJJ NOOBS think that judo ground work and bjj are much diff. I have also done judo and bjj and there is no difference in the ground work.
Also, a lot of schools don't put much emphasis on important positions like the guard, or just get defensive when you have their back and totally turtle up. There are schools that don't train in this manner, but a lot of schools train a style more suited to the Olympics. Which is fine unless you decide to enter a BJJ tourney in which case you need to do some brushing up for the new ruleset.
Judo does train extensively on the ground. More than enough to keep up with bjj. You've done judo so you know the reason they turtle up is to not waste energy in a position they can't win from. But, just because they turtle in a match doesn't mean they don't work the ground. I've actually listened to someone tell me that bjj invented the arm bar and that's why it's better than judo. have you heard this kind of ridiculous stuff?
I wouldn't even say at the highest level that bjj is better on the ground. They do tend to train more combinations than judo, however, judo trains (just like wrestling) to dominate position which is also a valuable form of tiring out an opponent. Different, but the same.
At the highest level of Judo there are practitioners with great Newaza skills, often those coming from clubs not specifically training with olympic style competition in mind.
I have to say though, I don't think that most clubs train the ground game enough to keep up with BJJ -in equal periods of time-.
As a former white belt in BJJ transferring to Judo I had a very clear advantage over all the lower belts on the ground (but not standing) and could hold my own against some of the middle ranks.
I should add... The ultimate test of BJ should have been Gomi but it didn't turn out that way. (I don't know the story on why Gomi underperformed in that fight.)
I do watch ADCC and what you say is undoubtedly true. The counterarguments would be that that format and rule structure gives advantage to BJJ and that MMA might value other abilities like wrestling or judo or sambo more (if we included equal participants of each). I'm a fan of BJJ but would like to see other martial arts and ethnicities better represented in the UFC as a better test of what I believe to be the superiority of BJJ.
You guys do realize that they were not going full force, don't you?
What they were doing is more akin to flow training. Charuto was not overtly concerned with getting in bad positions, and B.J. was not all too concerned about finishing him.
Penn just ate him up. My question is how guys of this caliber possibly can't afford more gym space. It may seem cozy rolling with a half dozen of your closest friends, but when someone rolls your ankle or your knee it's not so much fun anymore.
I love how BJ goes for the RNC so Charuto brings one of Penn's arms to the other side of his head (which I thought was a solid defense tactic) then BJ uses it to transition to an armbar
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OMG at 321 bj crosses his ankels, a beginger mistake made by penn!? good thing the guy hes rollin with didnt notice it, itd be such a pain to get tapped out when u have ur opponents back
the guy he's rollin with is his coach cheruto.that move your thinking of wouldnt have worked because he was to high on his back.he was crossed on his stomach cheruto wouldnt be able to catch his feet like that.and besides only a noob would tap to that submission its easy to escape anyway
You must be a white belt or never trained bjj. You can cross your legs when your on your opponents back if they are high enough up, your opponent can't ankle lock you from there. Bj does this all the time.
good luck brittney with a bunch of phychiatrist around you lol. if you dont like the honorable LRH teachings go see a phychiatrist were not stopping you lol
charuto is bj's mentor idiots! he was teaching bj TRANSITIONS and guiding him through the submissions by placing his feet legs and arms in the right spots, he put himself in a reverse triangle hes doing it on purpose, as of john wagers comment pl who think they're fighters should fight not say it, and jonnysonbill lmao if you think you'll make bj tap hahaha id pay to see you grapple with bj if you think your such a world class grappler why havent i seen you at any intercoastal competitions?
well because bj, is bj, he is a accomplished jiu-jitsu practicioner, and does not need to fiddle around in tournaments, im sure he is greatful enough as it is to be in the ufc, everyone who fights or has a dream, knows that to get into the ufc, takes a very good fighter, not only do u have to be better then most but better then most at everything. but overall, i would like to see him compete in the tournaments, i would love to make him tap.
It's funny how everybody thinks they're a fighter nowadays, even the guys who actually do fight, after two or three loses 90% give up. So the question i have for all u guys is "how many losses do u have?"
I don't get it. Has BJ's BJJ been ineffective in MMA? And you'd be surprised how effective it is in a street fight if you know what you're doing. Bottom is not an enviable position in a fight, but if you do what you're supposed to and close the distance from guard, you'll sweep your opponent very easily. And would you say the takedowns, mount, and back techniques don't help in a real fight? You're an idiot.
"Jiu Jitsu don't work when you're getting ouched in the face though"... um last i checked most chuteboxe guys are pretty damn good at jiu jitsu... why don't you stick to watching "rasslin" vids
BJ @ 100% up against almost anyone, i give it to BJ. Problem is, he wins so effortlessly, that it's easy for him to lose the same way...cause he didn't give any effort.
That fat slob dissapoints me immensly as he was destroying and should have destroyed Hughes if it wasn't for his lack of effort in the conditioning department. Shit load of talent though, and would be the best if he could improve his cardio.
He got a rib dislocated and it just happened to have an effect on his ability to breathe. Rolling round with Hughes isn't easy, he is a big dude for 170.
He IS the most talented fighter in the welterweight division, but when it comes time to show, he hasnt got his conditioning up to par, a well conditioned bj penn would submit matt hughes just like he did the 1st time they met
Bj is the most talented mma fighter in the world, but PURe talent without cardio just doesn't work anymore. The man is an AMAZINg grappler, and we all seen what he did to GSP standing...
He can't be the most talented fighter and have a losing streak at the same time. He's talented and a great grappler but remove your lips from his cock.
Yah, we saw him poke GSP in the eye and use that to his advantage. You saw what GSP did to matt hughes standing up? Knocked him down TWICE. How many times did BJ rock GSP or HUGHES?
you're stupid... Penn wasted hughes first time, almost tapped him second time, lost out on cardio...as for GSP, take one look at Penn/GSP after their fight, and tell me who the winner was! Penn completely unmarked, GSP with a face like 3lb of chopped liver. GSP is not in the same league as Penn for talent, sure is a lot fitter though.
Are you sure YOU saw that fight? GSP was poked in the eye, but kept on fighting, thats why he sustained the damage. He showed heart by not giving up and out pointed Penn. Penn had trouble with Hughes the second time around, and GSP whooped Hughes. Hughes, Penn and GSP are in the same league, a league of their own.
Are you an idiot? You don't even know facts about your favored fighter Bj Penn. He didn't lose from cardio in the 2nd hughes fight. He seperated a rib while sweeping to hughes's back in the end of the 1st round. GSP is not in the same league as for talent? Who's the current welterweight champion right now? Bj was smart to cut down to lightweight. He can never beat GSP.
You are an idiot. That is not even relevant. I'm not an MMA fighter. We are discussing MMA fighters. He'd kick your ass too. And yours dad's and your moms. What's your point? And he probably wouldn't kick my ass. I'd just do a spinning back fist and knock him out. ahahaha
Yah, look at my post. It was 3 months ago you retard. Who beat matt sera? Shonnie freakin carter did. And he almost beat him on TUF. So to have GSP lose like he did, I'm calling CONSPIRACY! GSP losing opens up opportunities for so many fights. Hence the koscheck vs GSP coming up.
nah theres no conspiracy. no one wants to get knocked out. Went to a Gsp seminar a week ago. He said he had a knee injury so only trained for 2 weeks and over trained during that period. Right before the fight, he realize he wasnt prepared enough and was stiff in the fight and just got caught.
I completely agree. It's hard if not impossibleto to say that Fighter A is better than Fighter B from one match. I'm happy it's this way and the fighters are at such a high level of skill- it makes the fights very exciting!
Takedowns, body shots, leg kicks, fight control, etc. don't show on a fighter's face afterwards. If you only care about face damage, go watch boxing or kickboxing.
For so much talent, too bad he couldn't finish GSP in the first before he took all those legs kicks to the legs and head. You can't even think of a good excuse. You have to use Bjs and Matt lindand's "look at his face, whos the winner?" You're an idiot.
what is "fedor" suppose to mean? fedor is a heavyweight. fedor has a loss coming soon anyway. gabriel gonzaga's game is nasty. great bjj, great kickboxer, and boxer. id like to see fedor vs cro cop II also. penn will own everyone else.
garbriel gonzaga? Are you hi? Mirko fight was a fluke, as you have seen since. Werdum owned him, he had nothing. After the first time they went to ground, he knew he was outclassed, and never went to ground again. after that, he ahd nothing! Scrub hvweight from now on.
wow......... that's amazing..... bj penn
wsworld568 3 months ago
BJ has no Hawaiian blood whatsoever. His mom is pure korean and dad is caucasian making him 1/2 korean and 1/2 white
koloheboy11 1 year ago
@koloheboy11 Who gives a fuck, he lives in Hawaii. Are Caucasian people who don't live in the Caucasus Mountains not really American or European?
Ahhhoki 1 year ago
@koloheboy11 his mom is actually has hawaiian and korean blood.
dleerox24 1 year ago
hawaiian and chinese
TrickAssNig 1 year ago
BJ Penn is Hawaiin
PATTH3RAT 1 year ago
HE'S HAWAIIAN
Honuboi 1 year ago
Baby J and Renato are actually good friends.
flipmode7o2 1 year ago
That was beautiful.
Saikanix 2 years ago
damn that was some war
rocwiler0 2 years ago
one of the many reasons i love japanese mma, they show clips like this in their pre fight videos. seeing the flawless technique is incredible
memento18poker 2 years ago
BJ Penn is a respected 3 time champion of the UFC (and defended his title 2 times and dominated Sanchez in UFC 107) And he is not japanese i do not think
extreemairsoft 1 year ago
yup BJ Penn is amazing - one of my favorites. He's not japanese but i meant that japanese mma organisations play videos like this one where you can see the person training and not talking trash
memento18poker 1 year ago
hes japanese , hawaiian and haole i think , his dad looks haole and his mom looks japanese but i've heard he is also hawaiian
KileyRamiro 1 year ago
@KileyRamiro BJ penn's mom is 3rd gen korean...what are you talking about
moonerjamerson 1 year ago
@KileyRamiro uhh yeah dude his mom is ethnically korean and his dead is from irish descent. so major fail dude. better luck next time.
wontonsoup771 1 year ago
@wontonsoup771 dude your so fucking old . this arguement is from 4 months ago and we concluded that so yeah fuck off retard
KileyRamiro 1 year ago
@KileyRamiro no he is korean descent........ his mom is korean......
sharinganWS 1 year ago
@sharinganWS lol, i tought that bj was half filipino xD
TheSpiderbeats 2 months ago
@memento18poker this is korean tv show....
moonereclipse 1 year ago
thanks for correcting me
memento18poker 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"HEY GUYS.i made a new account and i decided to show people wat mma is all about. i am a boxer and a juijitsu white belt, im going to give people a chance to see me grow as a mixed martial artist. ill be bloging and posting my training sessions and tournements, come subscribe and watch me grow as a person, watch me grow as a mixed martial artist with Renzo Gracie and Gleasons boxing gym."
RudeBoyRGA 2 years ago
BJ Penn is the prodigy.
If you want to see the ultimate flying techniques, look for my videos.
fightstardeluxeco 2 years ago
mount to triangle arm choke to rear naked choke to an arm bar then back to rear naked.. crazy transition.. crazy talented
joejoenuts 2 years ago 6
i highly agree, that was SICK!!! let's talk about OFFENSE!
mghoang 2 years ago
Grappling is the best, look for my flying submissions videos
fightstardeluxeco 2 years ago
that was insane
kbjunior1 2 years ago
bj penn is a monster on the floor!!!
jer1901 2 years ago
now that takes alot of stamina o.O
dejavu472 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
its really simple: BJ is one of the greatest talents on the planet!
when he use the same steroids as the other figthers and same daily workout he is the little brother of fedor!
Beenie0085 2 years ago
same steroids?
qnsboxer422 2 years ago
god damn. he just on him like a wet blanket the ENTIRE time.
srvaughan121 2 years ago
Watch me jump out of a 4 ft pool then go into a full muay thai grapple by clicking on me then watching my uploaded video
therealbjpenn 2 years ago
watch me not give a fuck.
srvaughan121 2 years ago
I wish the commenter would shut the fuck up.
eldapeeze 2 years ago
the mute button. it works. trust me, i used it, i know.
...and if there wasn't any commentating, you'd just hear the guys breathing and grunting, so it's not like the commentating is blocking out other interesting sounds...
BecauseOfBoredom 2 years ago
Guys, they are training partners and are just rolling around. You can tell they aren't going full out.
LJSJIUJITSU 2 years ago
Damn!!! Bj is one of the most talented fighter either on striking and grappling. If he trained hard (like the champs) he would be on top.
felo790 2 years ago
he is the ufc lw champ and the #1 ranked 155er in the world lol.
vanity81 2 years ago
BJ Penn is the best 155 lbs fighter int he world. The scary thing though is that he doesn't train as hard as many fighters. I'm not saying he doesn't train hard (like many do), but I do wonder what would happen if he trained even harder.
del1000005 2 years ago
uhhhh...he is on top...he is the UFC LW champion...
MFBueno63 2 years ago
damn...bj beat charuto like he stole something... and charuto is great.
gabe418 2 years ago
BJ is sooo freaking good.
that was ridiculous.
Kevynmeredith 2 years ago
2:33 i swear i hear "hijuputa" is that guy spanish? seems like bj is toying with him
themachinegunn 2 years ago
bj pretty muched owned charuto i feel bad for kenny especially since kenny trained with bj and said bj is on another world kenny better keep this fight on the feet
Lionkrew12 2 years ago 2
actually it depends on what kind of judo you practice.
Randori etc. Judo also practices guard, sweeps, and submissions.
A lot of the judo dojos in Japan now days are pretty much your hybrid grappling, with a touch of the traditional judo practice.
Jamzkangster 2 years ago
3:22-3:25
=-o
DeathMunkey 2 years ago
very nice technical roll
Shogun777 2 years ago
why does every judo or bj vid have this argument ?
tuopvm 2 years ago 2
cool
Jordanoggs 2 years ago
Yes, but not butt scooting is a simple adjustment. Not something you see Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners do in MMA (and everyone not doing Judo, Sambo, or some form of catch wrestling in MMA practices BJJ).
The emphasis in BJJ is on Newaza clearly. So in competitions disengaging from your opponent goes completely against the art.
There are a few things in Judo that are quite different from BJJ. Opponents turtling and simply waiting to be stood up instead of working to re-gain the guard.
Robopencil 3 years ago
I managed to talk a friend who was a 3 stripe blue belt in BJJ to give my Judo club a shot. He gave the black belts fits with the exception of one who held a purple belt in BJJ.
I'm not saying that either art is better, they compliment each other incredibly well. But I am saying that many Judoka's ground games are built around a specific rule set. When you take that rule set away and turn the fight into a straight grappling match, some glaring holes can be made apparent.
Robopencil 3 years ago 2
it's irrelevant...
while judo trains ground... the emphasis the depth of instruction is vastly different than in bjj...
bjj is a major in ground with a minor in stand-up
judo is a major in stand-up with a minor in ground...
axemurderer27 2 years ago
Uhhh, I agree with you..
Robopencil 2 years ago
the point is in DAMAGE!...modern day Judo crap is all about pins and ippons,but in BJJ you MUST finish with a sub! Second thing is if BJJ guy wants to go down,great...but Judoka is fucked and we all know that gravity is in action!
Alos21 2 years ago
If you want to talk about damage how about a clean throw on cement?
echsos 2 years ago 5
As with wrestling, judo gives you the advantage och choosing where the fight takes place. In a one on one fight on grass or sand outside, id pick bjj in a heartbeat if that was the only martial art i was allowed to use. But imagen a barfight, some dude tries to attack you, what do you want to do? id rather throw his ass into something hard than pulling guard with the risk of getting my face by his friends. Almost every martial art i know of have situations where theyre practical.
jogra028 2 years ago
Dude stfu. No one cares about your analysis on a style, I'm sure a scrub at whatever you train in also.
japan4everz 2 years ago
this is a sport not a fighting technique
totalmalfunction 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If you want real street fight training train in Krav Maga.
venturaflx 2 years ago
Yeah until you hit the ground, then your fucked.
Snoochy2006 2 years ago
If you want real street fight training, get a gun.
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
@venturaflx ni we just want sport mma but krav is cool and dangerouse too good for war
2submit 1 year ago
Not to say that there aren't areas in which Judoka excel with regards to grappling. They can pin you like a stone, and because of competition rules are used to working and submitting opponents quite fast. They can also throw you to the ground and land straight into a dominant positon (and sometimes in competition a TERRIBLE position if grappling was allowed to continue.)
Robopencil 3 years ago
true, I respect your opinion. And I appreciate that you see that the positioning that is so important in judo is valuable in all forms of grappling. But, also remember that the rules of bjj are also not "real". Think about mma when they scoot around on their butts so they don't have to get hit and think about the new rules where once you're down you aren't allowed to disengage. This last rule is especially funny because too many wrestlers were able to beat bjj players on take downs.
boxsterwelby 3 years ago
So, because bjj wasn't able to unleash its' effectiveness against people with strong pinning skills they simply changed the rules. Does that sound like "real world" fighting? The organizing body u.b.j.j. wanted to force people to play a certain type of game. This is no different than judo standing people up for stalemates. The only difference is judo is more exciting to watch i.m.o.
boxsterwelby 3 years ago
From the guard you have tons of options for submitting your opponent or sweeping them to a dominant position.
I've also seen Judoka stood up when their opponent has them in a very dominant position.
Far too often I see Judoka throwing their opponents and landing in precarious positions. Throwing another grappler and ending up with your back to them would not be wise outside of judo rules.
Again though, they're both great arts. Train them both and you fix the problems with each system.
Robopencil 3 years ago
I've trained both BJJ and Judo, and while the Judo school put a solid amount of emphasis on the ground, it's still nowhere near as much as BJJ.
Throws are what Judo is about, so even at a good school they're going to be the emphasis. Best case scenario(usually) is you train 50/50. And even that's that's only half as much as most Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners.
Don't get me wrong, there are some Judoka with very good ground games.
Robopencil 3 years ago
noone in the UFC lightweigt division is a better grappler than bj,demian maia is a better grappler than bj and thalas leites possibly is to there both UFC middleweights.
monoforraptunes 3 years ago
Would love to see a BJ Penn Kid yamamoto match. Both excellent strikers and grappelers. BJ may prevail but i beleive Kid would give him a run for his money and also test his chin
prassri 3 years ago
woah...BJ out weights KID by tons....
kdude1000 3 years ago
Doesn't kid fight at like 125 or something. No contest.
yamofaka 3 years ago
BJ looks like a spider completely overwhelming his prey. I've never seen him in trouble, never rocked by a solid punch, never in danger of submission. Wouldn't mind seeing him floored cause of his whinning, complaining mouth, but that just ain't gonna happen. Probably would actually do him some good, perhaps he would be a more gracious champion.
mmandoman 3 years ago
well you haven't seen much bj penn matches then...because it has happened.
kdude1000 3 years ago
Good discussion guys. You seem to know your stuff. My opinion is that if BJ is matched up with a superior grappler in the UFC is that he will use his takedown defense to keep the fight standing. I would love to see him and Maia fight but Im not sure the weight difference will make that match likely. It would be awesome though.
mmaguy2008 3 years ago
what lightweight/ middleweight in the ufc is a better grappler than bj penn?
appleslayer101 3 years ago
Just saw Charuto last night....came to the gym while we were rolling.
MBeezey 3 years ago
I know bj is great. But, I only ever see videos with him on top or highlights of him winning from the bottom. I started to doubt his greatness because I'm sure there are plenty of bjj or judo experts who could give him a run for his money. The fact that we don't see any of these challenges make me question everything. There is no one from japan or brazil that can compete with him? I don't know any sport that is that one sided.
boxsterwelby 3 years ago
Are you talking about BJJ or MMA? Penn is phenomenal at both but noone argues that there is no one who can compete with him. In MMA, GSP has competed with him well. In BJJ, Penn no longer competes but would have a terrible time with plenty of guys, like Marcelo Garcia. In pure Judo, obviously Penn would get wooped by the top guys. Not sure what your point is - can you clarify?
Soamsey 3 years ago
What I'm saying is it seems shady that mma hasn't given him a fight where he isn't the best on the ground. I'm sure there are numerous fighters that could give him a run in the ground game. Why haven't we seen these match ups? Are the promoters protecting penn's reputation? Or is mma still not evolved enough to offer a world class ground player who could compete on the ground with Penn? Why don't we see anyone challenge him in grappling?
boxsterwelby 3 years ago
There honestly aren't a lot of guys at this moment in MMA in his weight class who can outgrapple Penn at pure submission grappling. Maybe Marcelo Garcia, who isn't in the UFC, and who probably wouldn't be able to get Penn down, and would get eaten alive by Penn on his feet. I believe GSP's wrestling will be so great that he will nullify Penn on the ground (though, being a Penn fan, I hope I am wrong).
Soamsey 3 years ago
First off, thanks for having a discussion with me on the subject. Most of the time you end up arguing with a bunch of white belts in bjj who don't really know what they're talking about but have a one sided opinion. I agree with you that penn is awesome but I think there are people out there who can give him a run and we don't ever see those fights done. How about aoki from japan? His style is similar to penn's I think. What do you think?
boxsterwelby 3 years ago
Thanks for the intelligent discussion as well. It happens I had the exact same idea about Aoki being a great matchup for Penn but it seems often hard to get fighters into the UFC from other promotions, especially Japanese fighters. I'd also love to see some good Brazilian grapplers or any grapplers come in and take on Penn - the other weight classes have an influx lately of guys like Maia, Almeida, Leites, etc.
Soamsey 3 years ago
I think japan has as many great ground players as brazil. Why does everyone forget that they do judo in public schools and college just like we do wrestling here. Yeah brazil made bjj but japan made jj and judo. I wish we could get their good fighters over here.
boxsterwelby 3 years ago
yeah but JJ and Judo dont focus on grappling as much as BJJ does.
appleslayer101 3 years ago
common misconception. Take it from someone whoe has done olympic style judo and sport bjj. Judo roles just as much. The difference is the rules that stand players up if someone is stalling. This allows the more conditioned athlete to push the pace. Both sports are the same, the difference is in the scoring.
boxsterwelby 3 years ago
That is correct, a lot of BJJ NOOBS think that judo ground work and bjj are much diff. I have also done judo and bjj and there is no difference in the ground work.
markymark2069 3 years ago
well said. Now let's see how much hate mail we get from all the white belt bjj experts. hahah
boxsterwelby 3 years ago
Also, a lot of schools don't put much emphasis on important positions like the guard, or just get defensive when you have their back and totally turtle up. There are schools that don't train in this manner, but a lot of schools train a style more suited to the Olympics. Which is fine unless you decide to enter a BJJ tourney in which case you need to do some brushing up for the new ruleset.
Robopencil 3 years ago
Judo does train extensively on the ground. More than enough to keep up with bjj. You've done judo so you know the reason they turtle up is to not waste energy in a position they can't win from. But, just because they turtle in a match doesn't mean they don't work the ground. I've actually listened to someone tell me that bjj invented the arm bar and that's why it's better than judo. have you heard this kind of ridiculous stuff?
boxsterwelby 3 years ago
I wouldn't even say at the highest level that bjj is better on the ground. They do tend to train more combinations than judo, however, judo trains (just like wrestling) to dominate position which is also a valuable form of tiring out an opponent. Different, but the same.
boxsterwelby 3 years ago
At the highest level of Judo there are practitioners with great Newaza skills, often those coming from clubs not specifically training with olympic style competition in mind.
I have to say though, I don't think that most clubs train the ground game enough to keep up with BJJ -in equal periods of time-.
As a former white belt in BJJ transferring to Judo I had a very clear advantage over all the lower belts on the ground (but not standing) and could hold my own against some of the middle ranks.
Robopencil 3 years ago
I should add... The ultimate test of BJ should have been Gomi but it didn't turn out that way. (I don't know the story on why Gomi underperformed in that fight.)
Soamsey 3 years ago
If you guys watch adcc you will see that the best japaneese players still aren't at the level of the brazilians.
jrdennis1 3 years ago
I do watch ADCC and what you say is undoubtedly true. The counterarguments would be that that format and rule structure gives advantage to BJJ and that MMA might value other abilities like wrestling or judo or sambo more (if we included equal participants of each). I'm a fan of BJJ but would like to see other martial arts and ethnicities better represented in the UFC as a better test of what I believe to be the superiority of BJJ.
Soamsey 3 years ago
Was that matt lindland in the background?
jimmyloveswatermelon 3 years ago
You guys do realize that they were not going full force, don't you?
What they were doing is more akin to flow training. Charuto was not overtly concerned with getting in bad positions, and B.J. was not all too concerned about finishing him.
itheuser 3 years ago 2
there's a difference between a grappler and an idiot who trains once a year and calls it gay when they do it shirtless.
MikeSpuches1 3 years ago 2
you cant blame him..maybe he went from 6 o clock to 12 o clock and he's afraid to admit that he liked it
mississauga5litre 3 years ago
can't wait for bj to get back into bjj competitions.
jbone488 3 years ago
they are training and it is probably like over 100 degrees in there
teamrampage7 3 years ago
Penn just ate him up. My question is how guys of this caliber possibly can't afford more gym space. It may seem cozy rolling with a half dozen of your closest friends, but when someone rolls your ankle or your knee it's not so much fun anymore.
p1q0 3 years ago
hes not called the prodigy for no reason...excellent grappler...he got his black belt in bjj in 2 years...i did three for my blue...hes awesome!
bjjmma4life 3 years ago
black in 4 years but still insane
Lejendary2 3 years ago 2
I love how BJ goes for the RNC so Charuto brings one of Penn's arms to the other side of his head (which I thought was a solid defense tactic) then BJ uses it to transition to an armbar
diabolic42090 3 years ago 3
yea good call
mississauga5litre 3 years ago
Student toying with the teacher and the student is at least 20 pounds lighter.
grapplerke 3 years ago
bj pen deu um calor no charuto ein!!
bobpinto2 3 years ago
BJ PENN È FODA!
YAMAZAK1 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
OMG at 321 bj crosses his ankels, a beginger mistake made by penn!? good thing the guy hes rollin with didnt notice it, itd be such a pain to get tapped out when u have ur opponents back
medivh90 4 years ago
the guy he's rollin with is his coach cheruto.that move your thinking of wouldnt have worked because he was to high on his back.he was crossed on his stomach cheruto wouldnt be able to catch his feet like that.and besides only a noob would tap to that submission its easy to escape anyway
trianglechokeU 4 years ago 3
You must be a white belt or never trained bjj. You can cross your legs when your on your opponents back if they are high enough up, your opponent can't ankle lock you from there. Bj does this all the time.
mx588 4 years ago 3
obviously a white belt.
rich85seal 4 years ago
yeah i agree. my friend who trains is a white belt and when i grapple with him he tells me not to do that when i choke him out. ironic eh?
xxxtimmykimxxx 4 years ago 2
your an idiot!!! You cannot tap out BJ with that. You are a moron!!!
erickacacio 4 years ago 3
yeah im sure your such a stud at bjj that you can tell penn he's making amatuer mistakes.
Harbringerb 3 years ago 8
For example??
sipka2 3 years ago
newb
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b65768 4 years ago
that bj is awesome
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elront88 4 years ago
charuto is bj's mentor idiots! he was teaching bj TRANSITIONS and guiding him through the submissions by placing his feet legs and arms in the right spots, he put himself in a reverse triangle hes doing it on purpose, as of john wagers comment pl who think they're fighters should fight not say it, and jonnysonbill lmao if you think you'll make bj tap hahaha id pay to see you grapple with bj if you think your such a world class grappler why havent i seen you at any intercoastal competitions?
ryanmmahoward 4 years ago
yup. charuto is the man. he's a great teacher. i learned so much from him when i go bjs
neversubmitt 4 years ago
to all the spastic white belts at jujitsu class, this is the energy u should be using! not all out like your fighting for your life! chill out
ronhudsonjr 4 years ago
ID like to see BJ penn and marcelo garcia go at in at the ADCC worlds, why doesnt BJ compete at the ADCC?
archxstanton 4 years ago
well because bj, is bj, he is a accomplished jiu-jitsu practicioner, and does not need to fiddle around in tournaments, im sure he is greatful enough as it is to be in the ufc, everyone who fights or has a dream, knows that to get into the ufc, takes a very good fighter, not only do u have to be better then most but better then most at everything. but overall, i would like to see him compete in the tournaments, i would love to make him tap.
johnnysonbill 4 years ago
Anyone else notice Matt Lindland there?
SliqueRICK 4 years ago
That's exactly what I was thinking! Matt Lindland rolling in the back.
robnajar 4 years ago
It's funny how everybody thinks they're a fighter nowadays, even the guys who actually do fight, after two or three loses 90% give up. So the question i have for all u guys is "how many losses do u have?"
johnwager45 4 years ago
If they were both gay...BJ would be the man of the relationship.
Seventhdork 4 years ago
Watching BJ Penn is like reading poetry.
velocegatto 4 years ago
BJ Penn is the first or second best pound for pound fighter in the world
drumsfightingandstuf 4 years ago
wow I don't even like BJ but his Jiu jitsu is amazing.
Jiu jitsu don't work when youre getting ounched in the face though.
chuteboxegod 4 years ago
I don't get it. Has BJ's BJJ been ineffective in MMA? And you'd be surprised how effective it is in a street fight if you know what you're doing. Bottom is not an enviable position in a fight, but if you do what you're supposed to and close the distance from guard, you'll sweep your opponent very easily. And would you say the takedowns, mount, and back techniques don't help in a real fight? You're an idiot.
theclasher 4 years ago
idiot
Narukaflame 4 years ago
"Jiu Jitsu don't work when you're getting ouched in the face though"... um last i checked most chuteboxe guys are pretty damn good at jiu jitsu... why don't you stick to watching "rasslin" vids
TriangleChoke96 4 years ago
bj and gsp are both fucking good. bj completely neutralized gsp in their fight.... i think the fight should have gone to bj.
matt hughes is sick but not on the same level as gsp and bj... some people just need to jump off his dick.
raymond4583 4 years ago
Sorta like you are on BJ's dick. Enjoying the ride are we, Mr Hypocrite?
JoeMomma2002 4 years ago
what song is this? =P
iattackenemy 5 years ago
BJ Penn and GSP are evenly matched talent wise. Cardio gives GSP the edge and that is why he won their fight.
guarddog84 5 years ago
BJ @ 100% up against almost anyone, i give it to BJ. Problem is, he wins so effortlessly, that it's easy for him to lose the same way...cause he didn't give any effort.
benntoe 5 years ago
Yo at first I wasnt feelin BJJ but now I cant stop watchin it Im startin BJJ later this year
JDdaGreat 5 years ago
I tapped your mom
virindi73 5 years ago
nice ha ha
rowtorious 4 years ago
That fat slob dissapoints me immensly as he was destroying and should have destroyed Hughes if it wasn't for his lack of effort in the conditioning department. Shit load of talent though, and would be the best if he could improve his cardio.
nickflit 5 years ago
He got a rib dislocated and it just happened to have an effect on his ability to breathe. Rolling round with Hughes isn't easy, he is a big dude for 170.
Mecroxxx 4 years ago
He IS the most talented fighter in the welterweight division, but when it comes time to show, he hasnt got his conditioning up to par, a well conditioned bj penn would submit matt hughes just like he did the 1st time they met
ThickieWonder 5 years ago
I'd love to see more from BJ. I hope that he remains active in the fight game. I really believe that he can reclaim his title.
Jeremypsyclone 5 years ago
Bj is the most talented mma fighter in the world, but PURe talent without cardio just doesn't work anymore. The man is an AMAZINg grappler, and we all seen what he did to GSP standing...
AronaFan1018 5 years ago
He can't be the most talented fighter and have a losing streak at the same time. He's talented and a great grappler but remove your lips from his cock.
JoeMomma2002 5 years ago
Yah, we saw him poke GSP in the eye and use that to his advantage. You saw what GSP did to matt hughes standing up? Knocked him down TWICE. How many times did BJ rock GSP or HUGHES?
peterpoop 5 years ago
you're stupid... Penn wasted hughes first time, almost tapped him second time, lost out on cardio...as for GSP, take one look at Penn/GSP after their fight, and tell me who the winner was! Penn completely unmarked, GSP with a face like 3lb of chopped liver. GSP is not in the same league as Penn for talent, sure is a lot fitter though.
owdbum 5 years ago
Are you sure YOU saw that fight? GSP was poked in the eye, but kept on fighting, thats why he sustained the damage. He showed heart by not giving up and out pointed Penn. Penn had trouble with Hughes the second time around, and GSP whooped Hughes. Hughes, Penn and GSP are in the same league, a league of their own.
duparis00 5 years ago
OWDBUM is right
diamondcalves 5 years ago
Are you an idiot? You don't even know facts about your favored fighter Bj Penn. He didn't lose from cardio in the 2nd hughes fight. He seperated a rib while sweeping to hughes's back in the end of the 1st round. GSP is not in the same league as for talent? Who's the current welterweight champion right now? Bj was smart to cut down to lightweight. He can never beat GSP.
peterpoop 5 years ago
matt serra is the current ww champion
=)
and who beat matt serra again?
endrew00 4 years ago
Matt Serra is the luckiest man alive. I can't wait till Hughes beats serra and GSP gets his title shot and destorys hughes for a 2nd time.
peterpoop 4 years ago
Matt may indeed be lucky, but just remember, you're just some dude behind a computer and he'd still beat your ass
TriangleChoke96 4 years ago
You are an idiot. That is not even relevant. I'm not an MMA fighter. We are discussing MMA fighters. He'd kick your ass too. And yours dad's and your moms. What's your point? And he probably wouldn't kick my ass. I'd just do a spinning back fist and knock him out. ahahaha
peterpoop 4 years ago
Yah, look at my post. It was 3 months ago you retard. Who beat matt sera? Shonnie freakin carter did. And he almost beat him on TUF. So to have GSP lose like he did, I'm calling CONSPIRACY! GSP losing opens up opportunities for so many fights. Hence the koscheck vs GSP coming up.
peterpoop 4 years ago
nah theres no conspiracy. no one wants to get knocked out. Went to a Gsp seminar a week ago. He said he had a knee injury so only trained for 2 weeks and over trained during that period. Right before the fight, he realize he wasnt prepared enough and was stiff in the fight and just got caught.
suffert 4 years ago
Anything can happen in a fight these days. The fighters out there are so talented neither one can make a mistake, when they do its over!
TEXASPSYCHO903 4 years ago
I completely agree. It's hard if not impossibleto to say that Fighter A is better than Fighter B from one match. I'm happy it's this way and the fighters are at such a high level of skill- it makes the fights very exciting!
mattyyk 4 years ago
Takedowns, body shots, leg kicks, fight control, etc. don't show on a fighter's face afterwards. If you only care about face damage, go watch boxing or kickboxing.
diabolic42090 4 years ago
For so much talent, too bad he couldn't finish GSP in the first before he took all those legs kicks to the legs and head. You can't even think of a good excuse. You have to use Bjs and Matt lindand's "look at his face, whos the winner?" You're an idiot.
peterpoop 4 years ago
Fedor.
JRubeus 4 years ago
what is "fedor" suppose to mean? fedor is a heavyweight. fedor has a loss coming soon anyway. gabriel gonzaga's game is nasty. great bjj, great kickboxer, and boxer. id like to see fedor vs cro cop II also. penn will own everyone else.
jibourne 4 years ago
Fedor was a reply to the best pound for pound statement. BJ is one of my favs though.
JRubeus 4 years ago
oh. yeah i would agree to that.
jibourne 4 years ago
haha i bet you feel stupid, now that we see fedor murdered gonzaga...
Syntaxxerror 4 years ago
garbriel gonzaga? Are you hi? Mirko fight was a fluke, as you have seen since. Werdum owned him, he had nothing. After the first time they went to ground, he knew he was outclassed, and never went to ground again. after that, he ahd nothing! Scrub hvweight from now on.
darkbluesoul 4 years ago