F1, p2 PG 'pole cam' June '09, ESP (restricted) coastal site

[greg23842384]

Thanks for reply, great vid tho

[greg23842384]

Hi Murray, can U let me know what wing is this ?

[murrayhay]

Hi greg it's a (2002 design) Airwave 'ten' competition glider I got for free :-)

[hercion]

murray, that was an amazing soaring video! and such a smooth landing!

but i am always a bit worried about your harness... looks like it will "disintegrate" soon ;-)

keep on posting your great vids!

[bonnie43uk]

Hi Murray, i've just subscribed to your youtube channel, been enjoying many of your training vids ( i'm hoping to take up the sport in the next few weeks). Just wanted to ask, where is that strip of beach head where you fly up and down, ( can i find it on google earth)? . you seem to have remarkable control . I live down in Swindon. Happy flying my friend!

[murrayhay]

Hi we have lots of flying sites... and well over a dozen beach sites, this clip was filmed at Arbroath.

Re 'taking up the sport'... please remember that if you choose to train with the BHPA you will of course risk the accident, injury & death rate that is a RESULT of what they teach...

NB. 75% of my students are EX-bhpa, and come to RE-train with me to avoid 'normal' PG accident rates as 95% of what I teach directly contridicts 'normal' PG theory/practice/procedures!

[andersdr]

Your reasons for not wearing a helmet:

1) It's not a cold day

2) I'm not using the helmet cam

3) The risks in paragliding are almost always down to Instruction Error...blablabla

My response:

Terra firma DOES NOT CARE whether it's a cold day or if you are using your helmet cam, it doesn't care what the statistical risks are. If you make a mistake, (you are human aren't you?) it can kill you. Please, for the guys who are not safe, that will leave their helmets at home after watching your vids

[murrayhay]

Ground V head 'protected' with a PG helmet.

The VERY best helmets provide SIGNIFICANTLY more protection than a PG helmet will ever provide.. BUT they still give VERY limited protection even at the type of PG accidents with LOW impact speeds/ANGLES!

Presuming in Sweden PG instructors teach the same nonsense the BHPA in the UK teach that will tend to RESULT in similar FLYING accident, injury & death rates as the UK.

Remember that PG helmets work mainly to protect in GROUND 'drag' incidents!

[murrayhay]

The bottom line is that in ALL branches of Aviation there is a significant correlation between training and accident rates...

So ANY current PG pilot, having undertaken 'normal' PG training and who thinks that a helmet (or using a 'safe' wing/harness etc.) will keep them alive & walking is living in a fantasy world, the tragedy is many 100's of 'pilots' are no longer alive to learn from that common 'safe practice' misconception!

[andersdr]

I hear you. I don't expect my passive protection to save me, and I think few pilots do. BUT I still can't see why you don't think a helmet is a good thing and promote it's use. It really annoys me that you answer my question with your "political" views on training. That's not relevant. It's like saying you won't wear a seat belt because most driving schools are crap. In the real world, mistakes are made. Accidents still happen, and helmets sometimes make a difference. Please try to see my point.

[murrayhay]

From speaking to 1,000s of pilots over the years the vast majority DO in fact think that 'passive protection' is a major factor in 'keeping them safe'.

NOTE: I DO promote helmet use

It just that I point out how little protection they in fact will provide!

I also show that by AVOIDING 'normal' PG training a PG pilot can EASILY reduce the risk of HAVING an accident... where a PG helmet MIGHT... with a LOT of LUCK just possibly tip the ballance towards survivability...

[murrayhay]

There is nothing 'political' about the fact that 'normal' PG training RESULT in 'normal' PG accident, injury & death rates......

My view is that there is almost nothing MORE relevant to aviation than ANYTHING that has a direct effect of safety!

In aviation (paragliding) there are very very few TRUE 'accidents' i.e. damage/injury which was NOT a predictable RESULT of 'training'.

Certainly in 12+ years paragliding I can't think of one single true PG 'accident'.

[andersdr]

Still.. It's like saying you won't wear a seat belt because most driving schools are crap. Or that you will not wear one because of all the fools who think seat belts alone keep them safe.

If you ask me, the best way of promoting helmet use is to wear one.

I can see how NOT wearing a helmet brings attention to your cause, but I'm sure it makes most people perceive you as a less credible instructor. You need them to listen to you if you want to change the system.

[murrayhay]

Hardly, remember as a general rule in MOST car crashes a seat belt WILL increase the survivablity of the crash... while in the vast majority of PG crashes a helmet has little/no effect on the survivablity of the crash..

NB PG helmets ONLY work (fairly) well in DRAG incidents, the MAJOR factor still remains theory/practice/procedure taught!

Nope.. remember 'MOST people' are stupid enough to support training that KILLS a lot of PG pilots, so ONLY the courts can in fact 'change the system'!

[murrayhay]

NOTE: For me a helmet would slightly INCREASE the risk of my HAVING a 'accident'

('Accident' = a 'Incident' that results in a injury and/or equipment damage)

On a practical standpoint PG helmets slightly reduce visability/hearing

On the HP&L side of the 'safety question', a pilot who thinks that PASSIVE safety is a significant factor in staying alive is likely to engage in a higher risk flights.

Try fitting a sharp steel spike in the middle of the steering wheel to REDUCE crashes!

[djmarcellomix]

where is the helmet?

[murrayhay]

1) It's not a cold day

2) I'm not using the helmet cam

3) The risks in paragliding are almost always down to Instruction Error... i.e. it is the incompetence of (in the UK) BHPA instruction that (despite use of PASSIVE 'protection' like helmets) RESULTS in the deaths & injuries seen in the sport....!

NOTE: The student helmets are in the car & /store room.

So out of interest why (remembering I am not so stupid as to ever fly based on 'normal' PG flight theory) do ask 'where is the helmet'?

[Tindar]

I don`t know anything about the BHPA, but understand from your posts that you have a problem with the,. I can`t comment on it. BUT the fact that you do not wear a helmet due to the fact that yous skills are superior is alarming. I would never trust an instructor who felt that way about himself, no matter what sport. You don`t have to reply to this post, we`ll never agree on the matter anyways...

[murrayhay]

The 'problem' I have is with ALL PG 'instructors' who CHOOSE to teach the sort of DANGEROUS nonsense that RESULTS in the appalling accident, injury & death rate seen in the sport..

Helmets like other PASSIVE safety factors in PG mainly provide a SLIGHT increase in the 'survivability' of HAVING an accident!

It's NOT 'superior skills' (they help) rather safety is due to the fact that 95% of my theory/practice DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS 'normal' PG theory, I will NEVER agree to injure my students!

[Tindar]

Nice video, good looking coastal hang there. However i can`t really figure out what makes your flying so special, looks just like normal hang flying to me. Mimimal brakes, and good sense of weightshift...

[murrayhay]

I NEVER use 'weight shift' that is nonsense taught by the incompetent idiots at the BHPA...

It would be slightly closer to say 'weight UN-shift'!

In fact it is 'Wing Warp' (Side Slip and Vectored Thrust etc. etc) I.e. leaning in the harness to 'distort' the wing span wise and so alter the aerodynamics (airflow) at specific sections of the wing that makes the vast difference in flying between what I do and what is seen in BHPA 'trained' pilots.. hence the VAST difference in safety standards!

[Tindar]

You can call it what you want, i don`t care, but your explanation fits my intended meening. Leaning...

[murrayhay]

Nope not even close.....

You said 'weight shift'... that is the concept that shifting the pilots weight so it is 'MORE' on to one riser/side of the wing the idea being that by leaning right the wing turns (yaws) right because the pilot has put MORE weight on the right wing..

The level of incompetence required to teach that sort of nonsense is remarkable!

While I was talking about Wing Warp, where the pilots weight remains supported by BOTH risers, and flight can remain in a straight line!

[murrayhay]

Point two, 'special':

So how often do you watch PG pilots soaring a ridge by flying BEHIND the ridge? (rather than 'in ridge lift')

Also how often do you see PG's flying all the way along a ridge to the right... while leaning full over to the LEFT... by simply holding the wing in a 'Vectored RIGHT Sideslip'????

[Tindar]

Uhm... All the time? We fly a lot of coastal hangs in Norway, and although i don`t spend hours trying to prove a scientific point, that`s how we fly. It`s what works in the air that matters...

[murrayhay]

Quote: It`s what works in the air that matters...

YEP... so if you choose to fly based on 'normal' PG training (theory/practice/procedures) you will tend as an individual pilot to fall in the middle of the 'normal' PG ACCIDENT, INJURY & DEATH 'Bell Curve'...

As I NEVER fly based on 'normal' PG theory etc. my accident risk exposure is well off to the (safe end as it happens) the side of the PG aviation 'Bell Curve'!

'Normal' PG pilots are many 1,000s times more likely to be hurt/die flying!

[Tindar]

I couldn`t find a video showing flying behind a ridge, nor am i sure this video proves anything, it`s only posted to show you some playtime on a coastal site in Norway. Fun spot, good pilots...

[murrayhay]

Hi Tindar, I can't see a link to the video...

Do you have the URL / YouTube refrence code?

Murray

[CrocusCalasus]

Hey Murray

I'm keen on knowing more about this camera-rig of yours. What arm did you use? How did you attach it to the harness? I'm thinking of doing something similar.

Cheers and hope for an answer.

[murrayhay]

Hi, the pole is a leg from a trypod, fitted to a (almost) flat plate that clips on to the base board, and I just sit on it :-)

[johnnyblunder]

Locely bit of footage, excellent work Murray once again, the great control, although isnt down to you though is it,  its that new fly by wire ..........fence..

[geniennis]

Japers Murray that pole cam does wonders for your image lol. Best video footage yet. Sorry to hear bout your sister having to go through chemo. Will say a wee prayer for her recovery. Cheers from

Eugene in Wexford Irl.

p.s Will keep the red carpet till your ready to travel to Irl.

[murrayhay]

Cheers, if not this year hope to see you next one.

MH

[Vortigon]

Fantastic Video.

Trying to find get moved within the next 7 - 10 days.

After that Plan to give you a ring for my first lesson. Hopefully your not overly busy second half of July?

Got my glider and harness. No helmet, gloves or reserve yet though.

Anything I should buy before hand?

[murrayhay]

There is a good Ebay Ski/Snowboard store based in Dundee that stocks open face helmets & gloves :-)

BTW I've just had a new RE-training lady up from London (planing another visit Autumn) She got 3 days in a row flying with a LOTs of solo flights (YouTube clips once edited) solo flying was of course following a lot of tandem airtime time on the controls, flights including a 1km 'Feet Wet' (over water) flight from the sea cliffs at Lunan Bay landing back at the beach.

[Vortigon]

Thanks i'll try find that Dundee ebay shop, would be very handy.

I'm passing through Dundee this weekend, doing airbrush tattoos at Carnoustie Gala Day.

100% of proceeds towards my paragliding fund, so hopefully the weather will be good :)

[murrayhay]

Near the Carnoustie end of the Kingsway, look for the roundabout with Asda/B&Q etc. the Ski place is on the other side of the Kingsway a little bit down a side road, I will be working in Edinburgh Sat but should be in Dundee area on Sunday if you want to drop by and say Hi, just call me on the mobile.

[Vortigon]

Ah yes I know where that is. Cheers for that.

House hunting or possibly packing if I get lucky on the Sunday. Will give you a bell after weekend though, to sort out arrangements for first couple of lessons.

My thinking is it would be better to get the first 2 close together. Speak to you then if not before.

[iftyshifty]

Great flying mate. The accuracy of your movements is superb. Now I understand the name PRECISION in your title.

[murrayhay]

'Nice' to see the scum who want to help the BHPA MAINTAIN their appaling accident, injury and death rate are still 'one star' rating those that dare to provide RE-training to pilots who wish to escape the dangers of BHPA 'training!

So Scott... I take it you are still happy to help fund the BHPA....