Otra que no puede con la coloratuura y los trinos. Sino pueden minimo cantar lo que expresamente el compositor escribio en la partitura mejor no hacer el ricidulo. Boito no escribió en la partitura: "la coloratura y trinos son opcionales".
@NEBESHIKU Yo soy fan de la ópera, y poco se de música y bueno, disfruto escucharla, entonces digamos que mi oído no es muy refinado para poder entender los tecnicismo de ella, me gustaría saber, si me pudiese hacer el favor -y se lo pido muy respetuosamente-, que me explique que es coloratura y que son trinos, y también, si me pudiera hacer el favor de decirme porque su comentario. Es decir, para mi, Renata Tebaldi es una de las grandes cantantes de ópera del S. XX. Muchas Gracias.
@peque1204 La coloratura son todos los adornos musicales que el compositor escribio como medios de expresión dentro de la partitura. El trino es un adorno musical que consiste en alternar tan rápido como sea posible la nota base, donde se note el trino y la nota siguiente en la escala. Tebaldi es incapaz de ejecutar el trino pues está mas allá de sus capcidades físicas y técnicas. En el minuto 1:24 puedes escuchar una flauta y asi como toca la flauta tendría que cantar Tebaldi.
@peque1204 alrededor del minuto 1:47 tiene que ejecutar un trino e igualmente no lo puede hacer. Escucha a la Diosa Maria Callas para que puedas comparar lo que era tener una gran técnica de belcanto (cosa que Tebaldi no tenía).
@NEBESHIKU Pues yo sí escuho las coloraturas y los trinos, creo que Tebaldi era una gran cantante. En el caso de la Callas es que la verdad ella tampoco tenía la gran técnica, lo que la hizo grande son sus grandísimas interpretaciones, que son muy buenas, y reconozco también su gran solfeo de la Callas, pero sí se llegan a escuchar los trinos y las coloraturas en esta interpretación de la Tebaldi.
@ahuatitla obviamente tienes problemas de audición. Los trinos son inaudibles pues no los puede ejecutar Tebaldi sin mencionar que el tempo está lento para que ella pueda cantar. Si sabes lo qué es una trino? Al decir que los puedes escuchar demuestra que no tienes ni la menor idea de lo que es un trino: la suceción lo más RAPIDAMENTE entre la nota base y la que le sigue en la escala, así que lo que berrea Tebaldi no es un trino. DIcen que la ignorancia es temeraria y tu lo has demostrado.
@NEBESHIKU Changos!! jajaja sólo era un comentario y ya, hasta dónde llegan los fanatismo, pero ni modo. Sólo dejo el dato, soy estudiante de canto y confío mucho en mí oído de músico, no digo que es perfectísimo pero sí confío en él. Y conociendo de la técnica vocal no puedo juzgar tan a la lígera ya sea a Renata Tebaldi o María Callas, sólo fue un comentario que varios maestros han dicho de la Callas, pero igual reconozco que tenía grandes cualidades, pero bueno ni modo, cada quién.
@ahuatitla si ese es tu oido de música entonces dedicate a otra cosa pues te vas morir de hambre; y ues hay niveles y tus maestros no están al nivel de Callas.
@NEBESHIKU Jajaja sólo una cosa, creo que no deberías de juzgar a los demás sólo a partir de una figura famosa, hay muchísimos, pero muchísimos cantantes con maravillosas técnicas y estupendas voces y que a parte son buenos maestros, no entiendo esos pensamientos que sin antes escuchar ya están prejuzgando, esa es una de las razones por las que no me gustan los fanatismos, pero bueno ni modo, qué se puede hacer. Es todo lo que diré. Hay que disfrutar la música sin prejuicios :)
@ahuatitla sin duda los hay, pero por algo pasaron desapercibidos y han sido rapidamente olvidados por todos. Como tus maestros miles, y no solo en esta época, casos así desde la época de Bellini, sino es que antes, pero a las sopranos que la historia recuerda son a las trascendentales, para citar un ejemplo de la época del belcanto habra habido muchas como tú dices: "con maravillosas técnicas y estupendas voces...", pero las que se quedaron en la historia universal fueron Pasta y Malibran
@NEBESHIKU en el minuto 4:00 al 4:10 se puede escuchar PERFECTAMENTE la incapacidad de Tebaldi de cantar un trino, pero bueno, tú puedes seguir defendiendo lo indefendible. La técnica de Callas era perfecta, incluso Celleti (si sabes quién fue él?) lo confirmó. A diferencia de Tebaldi, Callas lo podia cantar todo perfectamente.
Strepitosa interpretazione di Renata Tebaldi, un'icona della lirica italiana dotata di una voce stupenda grande presenza scenica e coinvolgente drammaticità.
Questa è una delle arie per soprano più belle in assoluto, dove una cantante può dimostrare le sue doti migliori, purtroppo a molti è sconosciuta, si allestiscono sempre le opere popolari lasciando da parte questi GRANDI CAPOLAVORI!!!
Bellisima interpretacion y de gran simpleza por parte de la Tebaldi. Profunda interpretacion que llega a tocar las emociones y sentimientos del oyente y espectadors. Gracias Tebaldi. RIP.
Superb, almost perfectly sung, and a stunningly dark interpretation. I think the high notes are absolutely spot on. My only minor peeve is the absence of a trill, which here is indispensable.
The current interest in Mefistofele is due to the wok of Mme Tebaldi in reviving it. Her version of this aria remains the supreme one, since the great Sutherland never sang it.. Tebaldi's tonal splendor is the cause of her success in this aria.. She is the great Eurpean soprano of the 20th century because she had in abundance the three requisites a great singer must have: voice, Voice,and VOICE
@ebony1911 It can't be supreme because Tebaldi can't sing it as Boito wrote it, to start she can't sing the thrills, and that just to make the list short and not point out all her shortcommings. The only supreme version is the one Callas did!
Brava!!!!!!!!!!! I'm a desperate fan of Callas, but agree...... this is perfect! Maybe just the most high tones are a little bit low, but that's not so important......
The more important is, that the interpretation is amazing!
As if you forget that she's singing.... she's like talking to us .........
That was her best part at the time. Sory for the tmissing trill, but in the post war, trills were missed very frequently by great artist, intentionally, to denote verismo training. Sory for that. History will not forgive that kind of errors. Any way, splendid DIVA was she, not for recording, but for live performances. She was immense as no other could. Hearts shocked at her voice. You wont hear something alike nowadays.
This is an aria of "madness". Very much alike Lucia´s. But is sung in verismo style, no matter Boito wrote it up very far from verismo. Reasons? the year of performance. No other way to succeed for a young singer. The powerfull voice shows she is mad in that way. Other singers can show madness in other ways. Callas is in a better style, showing her madness with a kind of inner lecture. Tebaldi tried a spiegato version.
a beautiful, dark voice, full of body and finely controlled. nobody discusses this.
that such a loud, dramatic performance really catches the heart of the character of young, innocent Margherita remains questionable. More questionable still if one thinks that her technique would have allowed her to sing pianos and half voices: she just didn't want to.
Perhaps it's cause i know the piece well, but dispite crackling on the recording i do hear her trill the F sharp both times. so i'm not sure what either of you are talking about. True it is not as pronounced as in caballe's performance but that is partly interpretation but also type of voice, Caballe was a lyric, Tebaldi was not. Not that lessens either performance but comparing the two is like comparing a viola to a violin. valid but only if you don't realise that they're differnt instruments.
I have trouble with this aria. Yes, it is beautiful sad music, but about half way through when the lady has to get into the high notes, it seems like we start hearing 'singing" instead of the grief of a woman grieving for her dead baby. Should the aria be more ugly on the ears to hit us with the raw emotion. Just a late night pondering on my part.
You miss the "trill and the agility" in this aria? Other than a small cadence, this aria is VERISMO, not a coloratura showpiece. Totally absurd comment on your part. How absurd and completely irrelevant of you to even mention it.
The trill is written in for a dramatic purpose, to induce a certain emotion, not for show. And by agility, I mean the separation of some of the notes in the quicker passages with the "H" sound. It's a perfectly relevant observation.
It's not a small cadenza. Can you imagine a singer singing L'altra notte without it?
Relevant perhaps- and no, I can't imagine it without it. Who in your opinion fulfills all of the above requisites? Ah, could it be Callas? I thank you ever so much for sharing your authority on the matter.
Callas certainly does, but I wasn't trying to make any reference to Callas. I was simply expressing the fact that there's a trill that is omitted (of course, not just by Tebaldi)- and for me, at least, the trill is a vital part of this aria.
Quite frankly, I don't understand why so many great singers- whether it is Tebaldi, Muzio, Caballe, or Scotto- couldn't trill... it really isn't a very difficult technique.
For the record, Tebaldi is one of my favourite sopranos, so any notion that I am one of those idiot Callas fans that blindly & perpetually praise her regardless while stepping down on every other soprano in the world is baloney.
I don't understand it either, and as you say, it's not a difficult skill at all. I suppose maybe they thought it wasn't important, in light of the music they sang that really didn't "emphasive" that. I agree, without the trill, the aria does lose some of it's dramatic effect.
Caballe trills in the same aria here on youtube. You have to consider that when these singers started singing, bel canto was seen as unimportant. The greatest singers specialised in the big roles that usually didn't involve trills so why bother learning them. What Tebaldi and her peers offer is for me, still, closer to the style and feeling of this aria than the trill. Proof: countless singers will be able to trill in this aria today but can't hold the line like Tebaldi to save their life.
I agree with you completely, but the trill is stil an important mechanism through which Boito expresses a certain expression (after all, he wrote it there for a reason). Tebaldi (sometimes) substitutes a given trill with some sort of vocal shake. She, of course, sings this with sheer exquisiteness, as she does with most things she sings. It's just, a certain aspect of the aria is lost without the trill.
I totally agree with your last sentence. There is a trill and coloratura in this aria, and they are very important. They describe the girl's soul quivering and trying to escape from her prison (her mind), in other words, she is trying to will herself to die. She cannot commit suicide because she is in chains against a wall.
O_O wow...
longlifeluke 1 month ago
This performance - it's like butter! Adore, adore adore!
Alistairville 6 months ago
Ecoutez Crespin : la grande classe et un style parfait. Timbre de voix sublime et j'adore aussi le timbre de Tebaldi; mais la c'est trop force.
Crespin est de loin la meilleure ici,c'est interiorise et mysterieux.
dapheneo 8 months ago
Beautiful colour
annamleese 8 months ago
Gorgeous!! I LOVE TEBALDI!!! It's pity that the recording quality is poor((
AleksandraPlamenac 1 year ago
Brava!
1210Jazz 1 year ago
Otra que no puede con la coloratuura y los trinos. Sino pueden minimo cantar lo que expresamente el compositor escribio en la partitura mejor no hacer el ricidulo. Boito no escribió en la partitura: "la coloratura y trinos son opcionales".
NEBESHIKU 1 year ago
@NEBESHIKU Yo soy fan de la ópera, y poco se de música y bueno, disfruto escucharla, entonces digamos que mi oído no es muy refinado para poder entender los tecnicismo de ella, me gustaría saber, si me pudiese hacer el favor -y se lo pido muy respetuosamente-, que me explique que es coloratura y que son trinos, y también, si me pudiera hacer el favor de decirme porque su comentario. Es decir, para mi, Renata Tebaldi es una de las grandes cantantes de ópera del S. XX. Muchas Gracias.
peque1204 10 months ago
@peque1204 La coloratura son todos los adornos musicales que el compositor escribio como medios de expresión dentro de la partitura. El trino es un adorno musical que consiste en alternar tan rápido como sea posible la nota base, donde se note el trino y la nota siguiente en la escala. Tebaldi es incapaz de ejecutar el trino pues está mas allá de sus capcidades físicas y técnicas. En el minuto 1:24 puedes escuchar una flauta y asi como toca la flauta tendría que cantar Tebaldi.
NEBESHIKU 10 months ago
@peque1204 alrededor del minuto 1:47 tiene que ejecutar un trino e igualmente no lo puede hacer. Escucha a la Diosa Maria Callas para que puedas comparar lo que era tener una gran técnica de belcanto (cosa que Tebaldi no tenía).
NEBESHIKU 10 months ago
@NEBESHIKU Pues yo sí escuho las coloraturas y los trinos, creo que Tebaldi era una gran cantante. En el caso de la Callas es que la verdad ella tampoco tenía la gran técnica, lo que la hizo grande son sus grandísimas interpretaciones, que son muy buenas, y reconozco también su gran solfeo de la Callas, pero sí se llegan a escuchar los trinos y las coloraturas en esta interpretación de la Tebaldi.
ahuatitla 7 months ago
@ahuatitla obviamente tienes problemas de audición. Los trinos son inaudibles pues no los puede ejecutar Tebaldi sin mencionar que el tempo está lento para que ella pueda cantar. Si sabes lo qué es una trino? Al decir que los puedes escuchar demuestra que no tienes ni la menor idea de lo que es un trino: la suceción lo más RAPIDAMENTE entre la nota base y la que le sigue en la escala, así que lo que berrea Tebaldi no es un trino. DIcen que la ignorancia es temeraria y tu lo has demostrado.
NEBESHIKU 7 months ago
@NEBESHIKU Changos!! jajaja sólo era un comentario y ya, hasta dónde llegan los fanatismo, pero ni modo. Sólo dejo el dato, soy estudiante de canto y confío mucho en mí oído de músico, no digo que es perfectísimo pero sí confío en él. Y conociendo de la técnica vocal no puedo juzgar tan a la lígera ya sea a Renata Tebaldi o María Callas, sólo fue un comentario que varios maestros han dicho de la Callas, pero igual reconozco que tenía grandes cualidades, pero bueno ni modo, cada quién.
ahuatitla 7 months ago
@ahuatitla si ese es tu oido de música entonces dedicate a otra cosa pues te vas morir de hambre; y ues hay niveles y tus maestros no están al nivel de Callas.
NEBESHIKU 7 months ago
@NEBESHIKU Jajaja sólo una cosa, creo que no deberías de juzgar a los demás sólo a partir de una figura famosa, hay muchísimos, pero muchísimos cantantes con maravillosas técnicas y estupendas voces y que a parte son buenos maestros, no entiendo esos pensamientos que sin antes escuchar ya están prejuzgando, esa es una de las razones por las que no me gustan los fanatismos, pero bueno ni modo, qué se puede hacer. Es todo lo que diré. Hay que disfrutar la música sin prejuicios :)
ahuatitla 7 months ago
@ahuatitla sin duda los hay, pero por algo pasaron desapercibidos y han sido rapidamente olvidados por todos. Como tus maestros miles, y no solo en esta época, casos así desde la época de Bellini, sino es que antes, pero a las sopranos que la historia recuerda son a las trascendentales, para citar un ejemplo de la época del belcanto habra habido muchas como tú dices: "con maravillosas técnicas y estupendas voces...", pero las que se quedaron en la historia universal fueron Pasta y Malibran
NEBESHIKU 7 months ago
@NEBESHIKU en el minuto 4:00 al 4:10 se puede escuchar PERFECTAMENTE la incapacidad de Tebaldi de cantar un trino, pero bueno, tú puedes seguir defendiendo lo indefendible. La técnica de Callas era perfecta, incluso Celleti (si sabes quién fue él?) lo confirmó. A diferencia de Tebaldi, Callas lo podia cantar todo perfectamente.
NEBESHIKU 7 months ago
Strepitosa interpretazione di Renata Tebaldi, un'icona della lirica italiana dotata di una voce stupenda grande presenza scenica e coinvolgente drammaticità.
Questa è una delle arie per soprano più belle in assoluto, dove una cantante può dimostrare le sue doti migliori, purtroppo a molti è sconosciuta, si allestiscono sempre le opere popolari lasciando da parte questi GRANDI CAPOLAVORI!!!
albybas85 1 year ago 2
Bellisima interpretacion y de gran simpleza por parte de la Tebaldi. Profunda interpretacion que llega a tocar las emociones y sentimientos del oyente y espectadors. Gracias Tebaldi. RIP.
felirafe 1 year ago
Superb, almost perfectly sung, and a stunningly dark interpretation. I think the high notes are absolutely spot on. My only minor peeve is the absence of a trill, which here is indispensable.
philipc67 2 years ago 4
The current interest in Mefistofele is due to the wok of Mme Tebaldi in reviving it. Her version of this aria remains the supreme one, since the great Sutherland never sang it.. Tebaldi's tonal splendor is the cause of her success in this aria.. She is the great Eurpean soprano of the 20th century because she had in abundance the three requisites a great singer must have: voice, Voice,and VOICE
ebony1911 2 years ago 6
@ebony1911 It can't be supreme because Tebaldi can't sing it as Boito wrote it, to start she can't sing the thrills, and that just to make the list short and not point out all her shortcommings. The only supreme version is the one Callas did!
NEBESHIKU 10 months ago
Brava!!!!!!!!!!! I'm a desperate fan of Callas, but agree...... this is perfect! Maybe just the most high tones are a little bit low, but that's not so important......
The more important is, that the interpretation is amazing!
As if you forget that she's singing.... she's like talking to us .........
lorelaysinging 2 years ago 10
Bellissima voce straordinaria interpretazione.
MARISOLDELMONACO 3 years ago 12
I confess that I'm just an amateur, but her rendering sends shivers down my spine... I like her in this aria...
ritchiereech 3 years ago 5
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That was her best part at the time. Sory for the tmissing trill, but in the post war, trills were missed very frequently by great artist, intentionally, to denote verismo training. Sory for that. History will not forgive that kind of errors. Any way, splendid DIVA was she, not for recording, but for live performances. She was immense as no other could. Hearts shocked at her voice. You wont hear something alike nowadays.
cmmenah 3 years ago
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This is an aria of "madness". Very much alike Lucia´s. But is sung in verismo style, no matter Boito wrote it up very far from verismo. Reasons? the year of performance. No other way to succeed for a young singer. The powerfull voice shows she is mad in that way. Other singers can show madness in other ways. Callas is in a better style, showing her madness with a kind of inner lecture. Tebaldi tried a spiegato version.
cmmenah 3 years ago
Powerful, as in - the volume. Pretty, no doubt. Only, need Margherita to be pretty at a moment like this?
Instrumotional 3 years ago 2
Aria bellissima cantata magistralmente dalla grande Tebaldi. Grazie
macciboma 3 years ago 4
Brava Tebaldi!!! Ma senti anche Lina Bruna Rasa in questa aria (youtube)
Cavaradossi1981 3 years ago
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I'm just curious as to where you seem to think this missing trill is?
the score that two both on the f sharp at theend of each passage 1:48 and again at 4:18 or am i missing somthing?
Thomlinsonr 3 years ago
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a beautiful, dark voice, full of body and finely controlled. nobody discusses this.
that such a loud, dramatic performance really catches the heart of the character of young, innocent Margherita remains questionable. More questionable still if one thinks that her technique would have allowed her to sing pianos and half voices: she just didn't want to.
idraote 3 years ago
Perhaps it's cause i know the piece well, but dispite crackling on the recording i do hear her trill the F sharp both times. so i'm not sure what either of you are talking about. True it is not as pronounced as in caballe's performance but that is partly interpretation but also type of voice, Caballe was a lyric, Tebaldi was not. Not that lessens either performance but comparing the two is like comparing a viola to a violin. valid but only if you don't realise that they're differnt instruments.
Cluster200 3 years ago
Semplicemente magnifica!!
KitRobertWe 3 years ago 2
I have trouble with this aria. Yes, it is beautiful sad music, but about half way through when the lady has to get into the high notes, it seems like we start hearing 'singing" instead of the grief of a woman grieving for her dead baby. Should the aria be more ugly on the ears to hit us with the raw emotion. Just a late night pondering on my part.
fedtrooper 3 years ago 2
Very beautiful and dramatic... gorgeous voice, powerful delivery, and very musical. I miss the trill and the agility, though.
VivaMariaCallas 3 years ago
You miss the "trill and the agility" in this aria? Other than a small cadence, this aria is VERISMO, not a coloratura showpiece. Totally absurd comment on your part. How absurd and completely irrelevant of you to even mention it.
Andante735 3 years ago
The trill is written in for a dramatic purpose, to induce a certain emotion, not for show. And by agility, I mean the separation of some of the notes in the quicker passages with the "H" sound. It's a perfectly relevant observation.
It's not a small cadenza. Can you imagine a singer singing L'altra notte without it?
VivaMariaCallas 3 years ago
Relevant perhaps- and no, I can't imagine it without it. Who in your opinion fulfills all of the above requisites? Ah, could it be Callas? I thank you ever so much for sharing your authority on the matter.
Andante735 3 years ago
Callas certainly does, but I wasn't trying to make any reference to Callas. I was simply expressing the fact that there's a trill that is omitted (of course, not just by Tebaldi)- and for me, at least, the trill is a vital part of this aria.
Quite frankly, I don't understand why so many great singers- whether it is Tebaldi, Muzio, Caballe, or Scotto- couldn't trill... it really isn't a very difficult technique.
VivaMariaCallas 3 years ago
For the record, Tebaldi is one of my favourite sopranos, so any notion that I am one of those idiot Callas fans that blindly & perpetually praise her regardless while stepping down on every other soprano in the world is baloney.
VivaMariaCallas 3 years ago
I don't understand it either, and as you say, it's not a difficult skill at all. I suppose maybe they thought it wasn't important, in light of the music they sang that really didn't "emphasive" that. I agree, without the trill, the aria does lose some of it's dramatic effect.
Andante735 3 years ago
Caballe trills in the same aria here on youtube. You have to consider that when these singers started singing, bel canto was seen as unimportant. The greatest singers specialised in the big roles that usually didn't involve trills so why bother learning them. What Tebaldi and her peers offer is for me, still, closer to the style and feeling of this aria than the trill. Proof: countless singers will be able to trill in this aria today but can't hold the line like Tebaldi to save their life.
Orfeus80 3 years ago 2
I agree with you completely, but the trill is stil an important mechanism through which Boito expresses a certain expression (after all, he wrote it there for a reason). Tebaldi (sometimes) substitutes a given trill with some sort of vocal shake. She, of course, sings this with sheer exquisiteness, as she does with most things she sings. It's just, a certain aspect of the aria is lost without the trill.
VivaMariaCallas 3 years ago
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I totally agree with your last sentence. There is a trill and coloratura in this aria, and they are very important. They describe the girl's soul quivering and trying to escape from her prison (her mind), in other words, she is trying to will herself to die. She cannot commit suicide because she is in chains against a wall.
pasfresh123 3 years ago
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This was addressed to VivaMariaCallas.I will add: This is NOT verismo. This is Boito. A class apart.
pasfresh123 3 years ago
Nobody sings this aria like her. What a voice.
Rich and powerful.
VivaTebaldi 3 years ago 6
La fantastica Tebaldi!
giuseppecaruso2 3 years ago 5