Refinery Emissions ignored by CARB, nightly air pollution

[Aelleor]

Alcoholism alleviates the effects of pollution? Steam kills? Parents, make your kids watch this video. It's proof that diitching science class to take bong rips makes you ignorant. I'd like to thank the poster of this in advance to post another video on tin foil hat construction

[noftchks1]

"anhydrous nitrous anhydrous sulpuric."....

Glad to see that we have an expert on the case here.

I wasn't going to comment on this one, but... I'm an Albertan, and we have our own hippies to punch, but this guy is just too easy of a target!

Driving past a refinery doesn't make you an expert. You have plenty of reason to be concerned, but do some research before you post on youtube looking like an enviro-maniac.

Oh, by the way, do you happen to drive a car?

[landrum2008]

AQMD KISS MY ASS YOU GUYS ARE SO FULL OF SHIT.

[landrum2008]

AQMD  KISS MY ASS

[Metallica0493]

All that air pollution turns me on

[saldih]

its steam, plus those refineries were there long before those communities, those people chose to live next to refineries

[liveoilfree]

@saldih Kids chose to live there???

[bullzisnipr3]

Ya ever heard of steam? You don't see your breath during the day or when it's warm. At night once it's cooled down and humid, you see the steam..

[poisenpen2003]

You ever heard of refinery pollution? It's true that the cracking process uses between .5 gallon and 2 gallons of water for each gallon of gasoline produced, but the water that comes out is polluted, toxic, dumped into waterways such as Dominguez Channel. Sometimes you can see emissions in the daytime, sometimes you can't; it has to do with when they have to dump it, not with visibility.

[xtrmlyvolatile]

not all of that is burn off. most of what u see is steam

[liveoilfree]

@xtrmlyvolatile Don't be an idiot or ignoramus. The reason refineries are the "most regulated" industry is that they emit huge amounts of volatile chemicals. No hiding it, you can smell it.

[jajawt]

@liveoilfree - what volatile chemicals are they emitting? Most of what you smell around a refinery is sulfur and yes it is a bad smell. However, the smell of sulfur will not kill anyone. Now if you ingest sulfur, or smell glue (which from the you sound, you might have done too much of as a kid) the effects would not be good. Get educated before you open your mouth and make an idiot of yourself. Truth is, the boogieman is still under your bed and is not the hard working people that refine.

[liveoilfree]

Oil-paid goons post lies on here; but the reality is, as every person who lives in the shadow of a refinery or downwind from it must admit, refining oil is a terrible source of air pollution; even with all the bribes, even AQMD had to admit it.

[jajawt]

@liveoilfree - Yes, there are emissions which are regulated. If you were to take a movie of the fire stacks, that is where the emissions take place. They are safeguards where upsets in the process flow are burned off to keep plants from overpressuring and exploding. You sound and look like a fool when you take movies of steam from a cooling tower and call it devils brew. It's water idiot. That's all it is. And it is there during the day as much as at night. You just cant see it as well.

[jajawt]

@liveoilfree - You sound like a blundering idiot. What "stuff" is it. And the ironic part of the whole thing is you are driving in a car, van or truck that runs on what? Do you have a magic pixie dust operated car? Refining oil is a dirty, nasty thing. But you have no idea the effort that is expended to minimize the effects of refining. Get out of your car and walk your fat ass everywhere before you go talking about this bad, bad "stuff" that is being emitted so you can drive your car.

[liveoilfree]

Ironically, the oil extraction and refining industry is the largest industrial user of natural gas and electric power; the energy it takes to REFINE a barrel of oil, if used in an EV, would take that EV as far as the REST of the barrel takes an oil-fired car. And save a half barrel of potable water, too.

[treehuggersbeware]

wow.... this guy must be a genius. The so called "devils brew" is called steam Einstein. And the reason you see more at night is due to the temperature of the air. Not to mention you are driving around the refinery in a car probably using gas made at this refinery. If you care so much about the air and the community try riding a bike......

[liveoilfree]

Read the FACTS on the sidebar. The refinery industry is a huge polluter, and not generally even reported. You don't see any in the daytime, and you don't smell the butane and other HxCx in the daytime, either.

[liveoilfree]

Big oil liars claim that environmentalists are stopping them from building new refineries; the truth is, they have to close inefficient refineries because new methods mean that the same refinery can handle much more "throughput". So it's just the consolidation of Big Oil, nothing else.

[liveoilfree]

Actually, CARB runs tests on the air downwind of these emitters, and there's data showing it.

[Envergure]

There's no such thing as a gram-mole. It's rediculous to say 1 molecule of CO kills a red blood cell, there are trillions of heme molecules in each cell. You lack a basic understanding of how "kids' lungs" work. You're also too dumb to know not to film while driving. You're obviously lying about the smell because the fumes are moving away from you. I doubt you know what those factories make or what chemicals are being released.

[liveoilfree]

Gram-mole is a technical expression used in Chemistry, which you might study. One gram-mole of H2O is 18 grams, containing Avogadro's number of molecules of H2O. One molecule of CO does, in fact, complex with hemoglobin (just as does O2 or CN) but the CO doesn't release the hold (like CN). 30 mg of CN is enough to kill an average person.

[debodaman86]

Im a pipefitter and yes that is steam. some of it is chemicals but they burn it off with flares.

[petrolff1107]

All that "shit" that you're showing is actually steam. Might want to do your homework before you get your panties in a bunch.

[liveoilfree]

B U L L S H I T. They only let it out at night, when no one is around; and while SOME of it is hydrogen dioxide, the lungs say it contains HxCx!!

[Hecubus360]

This is the most ignorant, retarded video I've seen yet. He has NO idea what he's talking about. I know from working with the refineries down there what kinds of restrictions the AQMD has placed upon them limiting emissions, not to mention the other regulatory agencies, so don't give me that crap that no one is doing anything about it. And don't even get me started about substance abuse in the neighborhoods due to toxins. Go back to Eugene, Oregon.

[liveoilfree]

LOL!! I know how AQMD works, they are on first name basis with the devil, "Western States Petroleum". On another video, I took daytime and night pics of the same refinery, showing that they don't release it in the daytime, only at night when it isn't seen.

[Hecubus360]

When it isn't seen?! It's off the goddamn I-405, everyone sees it! Look I work at a refinery now and worked with the Carson Refinery as well. At both places, I've lived 1-2 miles away comfortably, knowing well what comes out of the flares and process units. What I'd really worry about is in the ports...lots of ships keeping their engines running to power generators....that's the big polluter. I know there's no point talking to a fundamentalist, I just hope others get their facts straight.

[Hecubus360]

I'm also troubled by your name, "liveoilfree". Do you have any idea what products you use everyday that are hydrocarbon based? Asphalt for your Prius, plastic to coat your paper cup of Free Trade Organic coffee. Lipstick for your girlfriend (or boyfriend?). Linoleum to cover your crappy apartment. You'll NEVER be oil free, and refineries help keep us from plunging into the Stone Age. What do you propose?

[liveoilfree]

You're missing the point. It's a SLOGAN, it's proclaiming the importance of living without BURNING oil.

Yes, oil is valuable; it's congealed sunlight. But why burn it foolishly when it can be conserved, we're drawing down millions of years of stored energy.

[liveoilfree]

They don't see it as much as night; and rush past it. Mostly, at 2AM, the 405 is empty. It's not me that says it's toxic, it's studies by academics. I too lived in the shadow of a refinery for years, but felt the catch of breath (it was the Union then).

[Hecubus360]

What do you propose as an alternative to living oil free?

[liveoilfree]

Our plug-in car runs on solar power we make on our own roof. If you can buy a plug-in car, you can pay for your solar system with the money you don't pay for gasoline.

[Hecubus360]

And what about these products: Air conditioners, ammonia, anti-histamines, antiseptics, artificial turf, asphalt, aspirin, balloons, bandages, boats, bottles, bras, bubble gum, butane, cameras, candles, car batteries, car bodies, carpet, cassette tapes, caulking, CDs, chewing gum, cold, combs/brushes, computers, contacts, cortisone, crayons, cream, denture adhesives, deodorant, detergents, dice, dishwashing liquid, dresses, dryers, electric blankets, electricians tape....

[Hecubus360]

hair, hair colouring, hair curlers, hearing aids, heart valves, heating oil, house paint, ice chests, ink, insect repellent, insulation, jet fuel, life jackets, linoleum, lip balm, lipstick, hair, hair colouring, hair curlers, hearing aids, heart valves, heating oil, house paint, ice chests, ink, insect repellent, insulation, jet fuel, life jackets, linoleum, lip balm, lipstick, hair, hair colouring, hair curlers, hearing aids, heart valves, heating oil, house paint...I could go on if you want

[liveoilfree]

There are many polluters; but burning oil is the worst.

[Cr3ativity]

If the sulfuric acid was highly concentrated then all plants would die. I understand your concern and it is great that you care about other people. A similar situation happened in Toronto back in August 2008 when a propane station exploded and thousands had to be evacuated from their homes. Accordingly, the propane station was built near residents; legally. Yet, logically this is illegal.Once again, thank you for sharing your concern and I hope change is near!

[liveoilfree]

It's dilute SO3, which becomes H2SO4 in the lungs of kids. Even dilute, it eats away tender lung tissue, making holes. This is not my invention; it's a USC study that proves it.

[liveoilfree]

Dark, I understand your angst. But refineries don't have many jobs! The entire 700 acre complex mainly has value as free property tax revenue to the city, not for its job creation. Refineries are highly automated now, with extremely efficient processing that can handle much higher quantities of OIL in the same space and with fewer personnel. That's why the big refiners are closing obsolete plants, to cut payroll.

[DarkIndustry502]

Im essentially pissed off because the transition the 19080's from our glorious industrial economy to a half-assed service providing one. Every time I see a steel mill or refinery it just reminds me of the good ol' days, when there was an abundance of nice factroy jobs that you can raise a family with. Heavy industry rules, and I wish there were more refineries and mills so America would have a decent manufacturing sector able to compete with the world again...

[DarkIndustry502]

And yes, back then there was really no care about the enviromental impact of heavy indusrty, but now, especially refineries, the EPA is so strick about emissions (esspecially at the BP plant down the block from me), that they can't risk the fines slapped on them for being careless. I even go jogging around the BP refinery here because it looks so damn cool, and I never have any breathing problems, even after 15 years of doing my jogging around it, I love it!

[DarkIndustry502]

This "soot" and "crap" this idiot is talking about has been ran through about 15 million dollars worth of chemical air scrubbers...and if the levels of hydrocarbons are higher here than elsewhere, thats because its a fucking oil refinery and thats the nature of the business...I know...you want us to ship all refining overseas to the Middle-East...great...

[DarkIndustry502]

And to boot, I have lived a quarter mile away from the BP plant here in Whiting, Indiana for all my life and I love it...heavy indusrty is absolutly fascinating to me and just visualy looks cool... the refinery here vents nigt and day and I dont care...the EPA keeps it well regulated...shit talking refineries only hurts the hard working people that make a living there..

[liveoilfree]

Data from the AQMD reveals that butane and other toxic HxCx chemicals are in the air to the lee side...they hope for wind to carry it away, so don't reveal your ignorance by doubting the facts.

[liveoilfree]

I want Chevron to disgorge control of the NiMH Electric car batteries, which they are patent-squatting on.

[DarkIndustry502]

God...this video pisses me off is so many ways..."flaring" is a technique desined to ELIMANATE chemicals released into the air, so get your terms right...this plant creates good jobs for Americans and you want to piss on them...pathetic...

[DarkIndustry502]

Great...another air hippie...idiots making videos like this are the reason why there has not been a new refinery built in the US in nearly 40 years and why the price of petrochemicals are so high...

[liveoilfree]

There has never been a ahortage of refineries; before revealing your ignorance, think a bit. Big Oil is actually CLOSING inefficient refineries because throughput has been improved so greatly.

[MTB710]

I know that parts of Los Angeles do this very often during the nighttime, areas such as Torrance, Long Beach, Terminal Island, and the entire Port of Los Angeles. It's mostly oil refineries and Power Plants, I don't know if anything is being done about it or not.

[ejaz924n]

Refineries usually have gas flares to burn waste gases, but then it costs money to operate these flares so the gases are sometimes released directly without processing. I have trained at a very very large Petrochemical facility, they do practice nightly release of waste gases. I am sorry for the sarcastic comments above, but you really cannot do much about it. They are not going to shut down the plants just because you don't like it.

[ejaz924n]

I agree with you however on the part that they usually release gases at night so that they do not have to waste useful resources to clean up the waste gases. At night you can usually release the gases directly into the air.

[liveoilfree]

Now that's the truth.

[ejaz924n]

PS: You shouldn't be driving around like that either, try walking. Your car exhaust releases CO2, CO, NOX, unburned hydrocarbons and what not. Wait, you release CO2 into the atmosphere while breathing, stop breathing.

Chemicals are not "dirty" or "hell" or "evil" or "crap" or "horrible" or "horrible stuff" or "smell bad" or "aghhhh" or "acrid". Sulfur is odorless, just so you know. Your body is a chemical factory too.

[liveoilfree]

Actually, you idiot, we drive oil-free plug-in EVs. Don't you think before you blather??

[ejaz924n]

Most of the waste streams are scrubbed/stripped using suitable solvents before they are released in the air so it is safe. You know how much time, money and effort goes into designing environmental friendly equipment and processes. What a waste of resources?

[ejaz924n]

OMG! I hate this environmental shit. You guys are crazy. I am an almost Chemical Engineer (Senior now) and I am exposed to "harmful" chemicals everyday but I do not complain. This chemical "phobia" is overly exaggerated and nothing really happens. You die when God wants you to die. Chemicals or no chemicals.

[liveoilfree]

Click the "more info" and/or look at CARB inventory of emissions.

''...The "Total Organic Gases", mostly HxCx, released statewide are 5,690.77 tons per DAY (TPD), with Reactive Organic Gases (the really bad stuff) at 2,321.39 TPD.

...More importantly, SOx (future Sulfuric Acid) and NOx (future Nitric acid) emissions (SOx and NOx) total 304.26 TPD and 3,557.70 TPD, respectively.

...That's pretty bad, and much of it is due to on-road pollution from Internal Combustion ("IC") cars...

[duckhunter5724]

this only happens at night time because refineries shut down during the day right? what you see is mostly steam from cooling towers. but you wouldn't see this during the daytime due to temperture and light. i understand the point he's trying to make, but do some more research first. refineries are so tightly regulated and would have to pay so many millions in fines, they aren't just blowing deadly gas into the air all night because everyone is sleeping and don't know any better.

[liveoilfree]

I'm sure there's a reason they "shut down during the day", LOL.

You can smell the pollution; and you can READ about it if you look at CARB's "inventory of emissions" which is adumbrated to the right.

[duckhunter5724]

I work in a refinery. I don't need to READ about it. Have you ever stepped foot inside of one? You mention so2 being released at night. Any release of so2 has to be documented with the federal government which will result in a DEI against the refinery and a certain fine. They aren't just sneaking this stuff out at night.

[Pence128]

just getting some facts straight:

although SOx can form sulfuric acid in the atmosphere, responsible for acid rain, sulfurous acid does not exist.

each red blood cell has about 270 million hemoglobin molecules, and each can carry 4 oxygen atoms or 4 CO molecules.

CO does not permanently bind to hemoglobin, but is released when the concentration goes down.

otherwise, everything you say is right, they wont punish the big industry polluters, because that's where the tax dollars come from.

[liveoilfree]

Thanks for the comment; but I think you're referring to CO2, Carbon DiOxide, which can cause death but is not in itself poisonous. CO, according to wiki, "...carbon monoxide binds to hemoglobin several hundred times more strongly than oxygen...its effects are cumulative and long-lasting, causing oxygen starvation throughout the body..."

[Pence128]

I meant CO, I mostly had issues with "essentially, each molecule of CO destroys one red blood cell", it's more like one billion. CO also doesn't permanently bind with Hgb but is released very slowly, it doesn't "destroy" RBCs, they can recover, but still very slowly.

[liveoilfree]

SO3: SO3+H2O=>H2SO4 (sulfuric acid).

SO2: more commonly, SO2+H2O=>H2SO3.

In the presence of Ozone and sunlight, sulfurous=>sulfuric.

Concentrated sulfuric acid is hydroscopic, meaning it tears tissues apart to get H2O; then, it's acid.

Sulfurous Acid is "A colorless solution of sulfur dioxide in water, H2SO3, characterized by a suffocating sulfurous odor...".

If it has an odor, it is in the air...

[Pence128]

sulfuric acid is very hygroscopic, but it's hardly concentrated by the time reaches someone's lungs. even if there wasn't any steam in the emissions, which I'm sure there must be some, it will immediately dissolve into atmospheric water vapor to dilute itself. it's primarily responsible for acid rain. SO2 dissolved in water has acidic properties, and is really bad, but according to wikipedia "There is no evidence that sulfurous acid exists in solution".

[supsup85]

O ok thats cool never heard of it but thats cool

[supsup85]

if it bothers you so much move away from there. anyway that looks like steam coming out.

[liveoilfree]

How are the kids supposed to move away?? Anyway, other people have to move in there anyway, it's not like people have a choice.

[supsup85]

yea well crying about it aint going to help what you can do is stop waisting gas and putting more co2 in the air by driving to these plants

and driving up and down the road complaning about them. looks to me like your part of the problem.

[liveoilfree]

We drive Toyota RAV4-EV, which use no oil, no gas to run (took some to make them), and we power them by plugging-in to cheap off-peak power, paid for by our peak production of critically needed solar power in the daytime peak.

[cyens1]

Not smart filming while driving your car!!!

[liveoilfree]

Not smart putting poison in the air, either! Which is the greater sin?

[chuckrichfield]

Its not really evil can you pick another word?...and what are you driving?...were all guilty of this treason against mother nature. I'm to poor to drive now..i ride a bike im a nomad i have no friends cause im broke i watch all the cars now running on their mission of self preservation. Just think in 100 yrs it will be gone!...the supply of Oil and most resources so what are we complaining about...oh yea will be dust by then our childrens, children will be walking riding bikes etc!..Thanks

[liveoilfree]

Dear ChuckRichfield, you're right; I've got a trip about how the only "pure" thing is to walk on the land in organic sandals. We all make compromises; we're just saying that a better way of expending resources is less polluting and less taxing on the Earth. That refinery sits on former wetlands.

[liveoilfree]

Drive free of gas with the RAV4-EV all-electric plug-in car. Why can't you buy one??

[FlyswatterOne]

we have problems with refinaries. but its not just refinaries we have to worry about. If we're going to "go green" and do what we can to change the world, it shouldnt be for only 1 week out of the whole year. it should be an every day thing. especially when it comes to the network people on tv. promoting a green living is one thing but why do it for only earth day. people shouldnt care about their world for only a few days.

[liveoilfree]

Of course, I agree. But we're still moving in the WRONG DIRECTION, selling gas-guzzlers with gas discounts!!

We've proven that plug-in cars work, and can be powered by modest rooftop solar systems: not for everyone, mebbe, but why not let SOME start to move in that direction?

Less gas, less refinery emissions; no gas, no refinery.

[FlyswatterOne]

There was an organization representing wilmington to get information regarding the refinaries and personal health issues. From their information, i was able to find out that wilmington has a big percentage of people with breathing problems. From smog to air pollution, its not just refinaries.

im sorry im concentrating on this issue but you just made it seem like the people are alcoholics because of the refinaries. its like using your friend as a scapegoat for something bad you did.

[liveoilfree]

It's not just refineries; but it bothers me that refineries get a blank check, there they are, the 800 lb. gorilla, and nearby cities and health depts. ignore them, as if they didn't exist!

[FlyswatterOne]

I do get mad because i notice the refinaries release black smoke about 3 times a week. I may not be a rocket scientist but i thought black smoke coming from any place is bad. I also notice the sulfur mountain around Anaheim Street. Doesnt that fly off with the wind? I see these big piles just out in the open.

anyway...I hope you can change your opinions in regards to the people here. Just because we smell something, we're not gonna drown ourselves with the bottle. that was just stupid to say.

[liveoilfree]

LOL that's not what I said at all, and those folks were in West Long Beach, on Santa Fe, not in Wilmas.

[FlyswatterOne]

you said that they drink and smoke because of the smell in the air from the refinaries. they have to get rid of the smell somehow. it might not have been word for word but i can go back and listen to it and mark where you said it. Regardless of where the person is from, i dont think they're drinking and smoking for the sole purpose of hidding the stench of the refinaries.

[liveoilfree]

Studies show that rats exposed to freeway-levels of CO (100 ppm) prefer alcohol to food or even sex.

[FlyswatterOne]

but people are not rats...people have free will...thats what makes us human...i think people choose the lives they live. if they prefer alcohol, why is it that the refinary is causing this? people choose to drink, smoke, do drugs, etc...its not because of the refinary...i think the people that "live in the shadows" are low income families that have other problems besides the refinary.

i understand that refinaries are a problem but, i dont think people are drinking themselves to death from it.

[liveoilfree]

So you think that people are low-income because they hve "other problems"? Some might say that they have no choice; I say that these houses being built means someone will live there. Society validates this by letting the homes be polluted with these emissions.

[FlyswatterOne]

everyone has a choice...like i've said before, some have more major problems to deal with than the refinary. you made it seem like if the people's minds were being controlled. Driving around is one thing but, living around the refinary area and actually talking to people is the difference. we can all get facts on paper but, how many people have taken the time to talk to those people?

im glad and happy that there are people still wanting alternative fuels...i just think you shouldnt speculate.

[FlyswatterOne]

im sorry but that guy is really exaggerating. I've never heard anyone in my life say they drink and smoke because of the refinaries. There are smells out there but its not all the time and it is in certain areas. I hope you can change those comments because its giving the wrong impression on the people.

I've lived in wilmington, ca for all my 25 years. I spent 12 years close to the texaco refinary in the east side and 12 more years down the street from the 76/conoco refinary in the west side.

[liveoilfree]

A classic study (more than one) shows that rats exposed to freeway-levels of CO (100 ppm) prefer alcohol to food. People notice this too, after driving home, a craving for booze rather than food.

[FlyswatterOne]

a classic study? im sorry but i would love to see this "classic study". People arent rats.

i would suggest doing your own studies because you're really being insulting to people who cant defend themselves.

to think that people here or in any other city surrounded by refinaries would rather drink beer than eat food is the dumbest thing i've heard. Im sure people from Long Beach arent all that different but to say that they crave booze because of the refinaries??

[jmvd20]

The large white cloud is most definitely steam coming off of a cooling tower...

A large portion of the remaining plumes are water vapor coming off boilers and furnaces used to heat the crude oil in the refining process.

[liveoilfree]

There's steam, of course, and other HxCx contaminants, as well as NOx and SOx, etc.

The reason they only emit "steam" at night, when people are sleeping??

Read the scholium to the right about localized refinery emissions and the burden borne by Wilmington/ELB.

[ChemE2001MT]

Why can you see more "pollution" at night?? Because the air is cooler and the ground lights make the WATER vapor easier to see against the dark sky. IF you really wanted to make a difference, learn about oil refining or environmental controls. The protection of the environment should be based on science not some hysterical guy with a camera. You need to get some training on opacity. Then you will be able to look at the "emissions" and say if it water or pollution.

[liveoilfree]

That's just a plain brown lie. In the daytime, there's no such emissions.

Anectdotally, I lived under the shadow of a refinery for many years, and I'm very familiar with the stink and the emissions. It can be detected MILES away just by smelling it.

[ChemE2001MT]

This video is amazing, amazingly funny. For full disclosure, I'm a chemical engineer for an oil company, for about 3 months. My response is the same as before I ever stepped foot in a refinery.

I hate to break it to everyone, that white stuff coming out of the stacks is water vapor. The guy is pointing to a cooling tower and saying "look at all that pollution". The majority of the other stacks come off of either furnaces burning natural gas or scrubbers.

[liveoilfree]

Refinery engineers working for an oil company, the same companies that poison kids lungs. Or are the studies wrong, too?

[liveoilfree]

AQMD is still stuck on "the solution to pollution is dilution", the theory behind the smokestack. But what if there's no place

to "dilute" it? What if the whole basin is already stinky? What if "NOx" (anhydrous nitric acid) is already eating up kids lungs all over?

[50unitedstates]

AMEN! I'm writing a policy paper for a class (Virginia Tech) and I'm getting so much valuable information from your great videos!!!! Keep up the good fight. There are people all over, as you know, that are watching and listening! Thank you!

[liveoilfree]

Ironically, the energy it takes to extract and refine a barrel of oil into gasoline would take a plug-in EV farther than the energy of the rest of the barrel takes our average gas or diesel IC car. So why subsidize electric for refineries, when it could replace them.

[efajeep]

Its not interesting that I can tell it's steam from my PC, I know for a fact its steam, I dont care what kind of car you have , and you never know when or from where another car could be coming from, you are not paying attention to the road. If your such an enviromenalist use a bicycle next time, or are you scared that some idiot taping a stupid video while he drives will run you over

[liveoilfree]

Actually, you know nothing. You are just paid by the oil companies to claim that refinery emissions are harmless steam, an outrageous lie.

You don't know a thing about my driving, either, so you're just blathering nonsense.

[liveoilfree]

WILMINGTON COMMUNITY MEETING

Thursday, April 17, from 6:00-8:30pm at the

Wilmington Senior Center. The purpose of this meeting is to update the community regarding preliminary results from the field study and regarding the on-going monitoring efforts.

[efajeep]

This guy is a fucking idiot, that is all steam from the cooling towers, there is no smell,(but I liked your fake ass cough) and why is the douche bag driving around holding a camera in his evil gas powered car, endangering you and your childrens lives, you can see he is not paying attention to the road, but he is ready to rearend or side swipe your car.Mabey you should get to bed and get rested for work dude, Oh sorry you have no life, so you probably have no job either. what a jerk off

[liveoilfree]

Interesting that you can tell it's steam from the other side of your PC. FYI, it was a Prius, and there were no other cars on the road, as you might be able to see.

[liveoilfree]

Take a look at the AQMD meeting video, watch the cozy relationship of the Governor (who really controls the Board) and the oil industry...showing that they really don't care about these emissions, what ever they are.

[northsydneyreid]

most of that's steam buddy

[liveoilfree]

If steam smells like H2S, HxCx, SOx and other contaminants...

[mianersiyok]

Btw, I thought the shot of the American flag on the refinery was a hoot. It's no wonder so many foreigners dislike America.

[mianersiyok]

In contrast, the amount shown in this video would seem accurate if you could provide a video of these refineries if you don't already have any in the day which is when it should be warmer and less steam would be visable. Just a thought. I'm not an expert on refineries but don't they also operate at different rates throughout a 24 hour period? That would also be interesting to document, the amount of pollution throughout a day.

[mianersiyok]

I think a good portion of that is toxic, but I have to agree with some previous comments, some of that exhaust is waste heat and steam. Was that a cold night? The colder it was the more likely that waste heat could create much steam, especially nearer to the ocean. Im not denying that theres still a certain amount of particulate matter in the exhaust though, just saying that it appears to be A LOT worse than it is. Not saying that any is a good thing, I think all polluters are in the wrong.

[alchemist1117]

Thank you for bringing the awareness. This is not an isolated issue.

[liveoilfree]

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:50:42 GMT

HOUSTON , Feb 27 ( Reuters ) - Chevron Corp ( CVX.N : Quote , Profile , Research ) reported flaring at its 260,000 barrel per day Los Angeles - area refinery in El Segundo , California , on Wednesday

[08TBSS]

That flare is lit 24/7....it's just when it gets to a certain SIZE is when it's a problem....there is someone watching that flare 24/7....it's manditory for them to stay within regulation....flaring is an every day thing...like I said 24/7.....it's just when it gets to a certain size that it does that....

[liveoilfree]

Flaring is burning off toxic chemicals that are illegal to dump. It should never be allowed to pump chemicals into downwind breathers' lungs. They don't even get warned!

[08TBSS]

Yes it is BURNING of those chemicals to deplete them into a parts per million that is allowed to be let into the atmosphere.....the funny part is that a flare pipe is tall and skinny....and is pretty far away from the ground..what is coming off of the GROUND level pipes in the video is NOT FROM A FLARE.....even by your own words...those emissions are NOT from a flare.....they could even be steam, and because it's cooler at night it looks like that....

[liveoilfree]

So if the pipe is taller, there is no pollution?? No, a taller stack just spreads the mess over a wider area, killing more lungs.

[08TBSS]

It should never been allowed for those people to BUILD those houses so close to the refinery....that was all marshland and industrial area when that refinery opened....your acting like these people don't make a concious descision to move next to a refinery, and the refinery is killing them on purpose....businesses have accidents, with humans, theres always human error, no matter WHERE you work...it's just that some places the problems create more damage than others....nothing is perfect..nothing

[liveoilfree]

These people (talk to them) live there because they have to. In many cases, the houses were there first; Wilmington was a town long before Chevron! The kids have no choice...at all.

[mianersiyok]

Not to mention, when you burn certain things, lots of new things are created. I don't think burning makes much sense. A lot of the health reducing chemicals found in cigarette studies are observed when the cigarette is actually burning. They arent present when they arent lit. I'm sure the same applies to refineries.

[liveoilfree]

Of course we don't test it! But the smell is chemical, sulfurous, and reminscent of the gates of HELL itself.

[08TBSS]

Sounds a lot like a volcano....or a hot spring...same smell and both are natural...and YES they do test the discharge....that's why it allowed to be vented into the atmosphere...certain tanks can be vented....

[liveoilfree]

They are allowed to do it...NOT! They are fined many days, the maximum fine according to the AQMD guy I spoke to was ... $500! So they pay it, and the kids go to the emergency room, and the Taxpayer picks up the $1000 per kid cost.

[08TBSS]

They ARE allowed to do it....ALL of the emissions that you were seeing were steam...I just talked to a guy who's been around refineries for 30 years, including that one...you might want to learn more about what you were looking at before you make another video like that. That was all steam from cooling towers. The actual flare has steam that runst through it too at a high velocity to make sure that when something IS burned, that it burns UP, and not IN the pipe...steam is a 24/7 thing...

[liveoilfree]

And the sulfurous smell was just imaginary? And the studies are all wrong? And no downwind lung damage??

[mianersiyok]

Um... I know you're not trying to compare natural geological activity to refinery opperations...LOL!

There is a natural balance to things in nature, it doesn't make it OK for us to add similar things just because it occures in nature, we're screwing up the balance and nature is trying to offset the damage which in turn is creating an increasingly hostile world for all life to live in.

[08TBSS]

I understand that they need to clean up their act. I agree with you that those/any people shouldn't have to live with polutants like that. Right now we pretty much have no choice. Cost effectivity is going to determine the next step, and all steps there after. People can stand up and say this isn't right all they want, but until there is an alternative that MAKES these refinery companies money...even though I think it should.....things will not change....

[08TBSS]

No offense, but do you know EXACTLY what is coming out of each of those stacks individually? Some materials are allowed to be purged into the atmosphere. In cool temps at night can look billowing and 10x the limit because of the LOOK of them, and not the Parts Per Million count. You could stand there and vent steam and make the same scenery. The smell is a by product that will almost always be there. Just like driving through a dairy farmed area...your going to smell it, and pretty strong.

[liveoilfree]

The EPA allows anything to be dumped, effectively: that is, they don't stop it!

[08TBSS]

I have been down there many times and I know that personel are there 24/7. It's not like they dump stuff out of that place and NO ONE is watching. The emissions of that refinery might be within industry standards, but not with yours personally. They work hard to stay within regulations, and pay their people well to do so. One set of people would say that is an acceptable by product of every day life, while others say the opposite.

[liveoilfree]

Once, it was so bad, we tracked down the refinery that did it. People were standing on the streets in West Long Beach, at 1 AM, just suffering and wondering who was doing it. But at the refinery, the staff ducked us, we were just standing outside the gate, and the AQMD did NOTHING meaningful.

[08TBSS]

It's just like where ever you work...if something happened...there are designated people that talk to the public, and ONLY they will coment to the press...all other people are told not to coment...thats the same with ANY job where something goes wrong...it's all about making sure people who don't know what actually happen from making a mole hill into a mountain....by nothing meaningful do you mean they didn't waste time talking to you instead of spending that energy fixing the problem?

[liveoilfree]

Depends if the company is criminal or not, eh? I'd regard this company as criminal, hiding the damage they are doing to kids. Some fools might say the smoke is harmless; but there's increased asthma, it doesn't come from nowhere. Studies now show the closer you are to a freeway, the more permanent lung damage in kids.

[08TBSS]

I don't defend what they do there, but that refinery had next to nothing around it when it was built. The city got larger and because that land is by the refinery it's a much lower cost of living around it. That is one of the reasons it looks like that. There is probrably more alcohol consumption in that area because it is a bigger part of the people who live there's way of live. I hate to say that about the area, but it's true. Those houses were built there to make money, and they are doing it.

[Chicahominy]

One good thing is that we haven't built any new refineries in this country in years. With the recent (supposed) shortages I thought this was the problem, but we're better off w/o them. Can't say I'd want to live by one of those.

Let's move to electric. I'm wondering if pure EVs were available just how many people would buy one as a second car despite the range limitations. ??

[DrBrazil1]

What do you expect from the EPA? It was founded my Richard Nixon! I doubt the so called Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel would be any cleaner than 2# diesel because the further refining process would put the same amount of toxic gases into the atmosphere. I wonder if these gases can be used to create concrete? By the way, dose anyone know how much energy it takes to refine one barrel of oil into gasoline?

[liveoilfree]

Petroleum extraction and refining is the LARGEST industrial user of electric and natural gas in California. Adding up the electric alone, it amounts to about 8% of the energy in a barrel of oil. Ironically, an EV goes about the same distance on that 8% than IC cars go on the other 92%!! Not counting potable water and natural gas.

[mianersiyok]

isn't it Ironic...that we need oil to refine oil? It's like adding logs to a fire that is not needed...

[bjhorton2005]

Terrible! No kidding..

BTW well said. well said

[1972volkswagen]

One reason I think people don't mind gas cars is that you can't see the pollution coming out of the tailpipes. Unless the car is burning oil or it's winter and you can see the condensation, exaust gases are invisible. Now if cars spit out a large black, toxic smelling cloud like those refineries, there would be a lot of people like you and me who ant to do something about air pollution. Both of my parents are just fine about driving their BMW and large Volvo. It bothers me.

[BrandNewAge]

You know, I thought they release it at night time because during the day time the sun agitates the pollutants and makes them worse. Similar to how they don't want you to gas up on ozone action days because the sun makes the vapors worse.

[liveoilfree]

It's still in the air the next day, just more inland, and more attenuated. Ozone and sunlight make the acids into SO3 and NO2, and probably make the other chemicals in that ugly mix even more deadly.

[BrandNewAge]

Oh yes I'm by no mean's trying to say it's good at all. I know how bad the refineries in Port Arthur and Houston smell, pretty sure this one smells the same. Luckily Austin's a pretty clean town. It's still bad though on IH35, yeah yeah only 1 interstate freeway so we don't call it 'The 35' but anyways they did a study about a year ago and found diesel particulate matter to be way past safe levels on that stretch road. The recommendation? Turn off your a/c and close your windows in the car.

[dapple33]

The devils brew..............Stupid EPA, were the hell are those guys.

[HAL11000]

They are all sleeping.

[deloreanowner]

disgusting, and i cant wait to convert a 63 tempest into an EV years later