and to chelevSaRa, do a little research and you will find that christian scholars and non christian scholars alike agree at least on the fact that jesus excisted and he had a large following of believers. saying jesus didn't exsist is like saying abraham lincoln didn't exsist. however, you can simply say you don't believe he was really god's son without sounding like a moron if you'd like, and I have no beef with that.
probably simply chose... these are the kind of statements these peopel make. dec. 25th was probably simply chose... why should we think that because that's what you think? these loose change and zeitgeist moron's are laughable. lol. at least the debunkers actually quote the scholars and data that they are using to back up their claims. you are regurgitating fancy rhetoric, conjecture and speculation that you believed because it "sounded good". And you actually think this makes you smart.
Jesus wasn t born on december 25th but between june and august .the dec 25th date is a catholic fabrication so yes Zeitgeist applies to catholism but not to real christianism because as a christian i dont celebrate chrismas,easter or other festivals because they are of pagan origin .you should study more christianity instead of putting everything in the same religion .you actually believe this witch Acharia S? Come on she doesnt know what shes saying ,she s just another stupid new ager
Jesus wasn't born. He's a myth. And we celebrate his fictional birth on December 25th because as Malachi admits, Jesus is a Sun god, and December 25th is when the Sun began rising higher again.
Sorry, but the existence of God is so painfully obvious that the Bible doesn't bother to prove Him. Nevertheless, God can be proven by common sense (unless somebody is ignorant and narrow-minded).
Are you some anarchist then? If we're made by God then we're owned by Him. If He presented His moral Law then we must obey it. One breaking it then deserves to be punished. What do you do with a malfunctioning software? You remove it or repair it.
Having offended an infinitely worthy being we deserve infinite penalty. 10 commandments hang over our heads. Jesus however, bore our sins in his body, died, was buried and resurrected. Believe this and live forever, fine having been paid.
That's an imposed ancient belief system. Let's grow out of it so we can find real solutions to real problems.
People make laws when they don't know how to solve a problem.
If we solve problems there's no need for laws.
If someone grows up in a violent, impoverished neighborhood, they are more likely to become violent too. It's not that they're evil and need to be punished, it's that our society hasn't solved their problem. We must illiminate the poverty that breeds this problem.
Well, you're imposing your beliefs on me by discrediting the Bible. You see, there is no middle ground here.
How come people can demand justice then if laws where just made up?
A moral codex IS a solution to crimes. Abandon morals and you will live in a dystopia. It's already happening today.
People don't become evil because of their crimes. They commit crimes because they are evil (well, all people are evil). The material status makes no difference here.
I'm reading the Bible. You can find many of my readings online. The Bible is incapable of proving Jesus was born though. It's a religious text. It is not regarded as historical document. It will be found in the religion section at a book store, and appropriatly so. It's just the beliefs of ancient people put on paper for modern people to dumb themselves down with should they take it seriously. Why should we take it anymore seriously than any other myth involving gods?
Many historians of Christ's day recorded his existence, activities, death and even mention rumors of his resurrection. An ancient text that is true can easily prove its credibility.
I've met many atheists that claimed to know the Bible but they showed their Biblical illiteracy when tested. How can I hold your words to hold any relevance?
We can reconstruct the account of Jesus from secular sources.
There was a man named Jesus, called Christ (Josephus), he preformed "magic", give new teachings to the Israel. He was "hanged" during the Passover (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea, under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius (Tacitus). Darkness marked His death (Thallus). He claimed to be God and that He would return (Eliezar). Many believers that worshiped Him as God (Pliny the Younger) claimed immortality (Lucian of Samosata).
Josephus wasn't alive during the time Jesus supposedly performed miracles. The Babylonian Talmud is too late too. So is Tacitus.
Thallus' writings aren't even available to us in original form. They come from a Christian called Africanus, who unintentionally paints Jesus as a mythical Sun god.
What Eliezar are you referring to? More details please.
Pliny/Lucian are late and only confirm that there were believers - so what? People believed in Odin and Ra too.
Is several years after Christ's ministry not good enough for you?
Is the New Testament not good enough for you?
Well, I know what would be good enough for you - the opinions of so-called "experts" who lived almost two thousand years after the people here mentioned.
Read John, a person from inside. He would have known best. Ask Luke, the physician. Ask Paul, persecutor turned believer.
I don't think just about anything would convince you. Prove me wrong.
Of course those aren't good enough for me! Why would they be? There's no reason for them to be good enough for me.
We don't live in a world where people just go around walking on water, curing the blind with a lay of hands, and raising the dead. When is the last time you saw someone perform real magic? It doesn't happen, Michael. Not in reality. We see it in fantasy. Besides, Jesus is a Sun god whose father is a volcano god. He can't be anymore real than Aten or Shamash.
Volcano god? Where did you get this nonsense from?
It is logical for a being that created the laws of nature to bend them at will. Would it be possible for such a being? That's not magic, that's miracles. Know the difference.
Nonsense? Not at all. If you read the book of Exodus, Mt. Sinai is designated as the dwelling place of Yahweh. And it isn't the mountain presently known as Mt. Sinai. That one was named after the one in the Bible. The one in the Bible is a volcano in Saudi Arabia. That's why the the Israelites follow a pillar of "cloud" to get to Mt. Sinai, and when they get there "God" appears in the form of fire, descending upon the quakey, smoking mountain. He's a volcano god, like Pele or Tlaloc.
I can trace your argument to "Sex, Ecology, and Spirituality" by Ken Wilber's (New Age-esque philosopher) and "Yahweh" by Ilil Arbel (who cites no sources).
By the same logic God is a god of light, darkness, prosperity, calamity (Isaiah 45:7), sea, air and land creatures (Genesis 1-2), sky, fertility, sun, moon, ect.
You seem to have lot of faith in writings of people that base their claims on their own authority, not reality.
I've never even heard of that guy. I read Exodus myself dude. The proof is on my channel. I have readings of the entire chapter uploaded. Your assumption that I just got it from this Ken Wilber guy is incorrect. Anyone who reads Exodus can see that it talks about the Israelites following this pillar of cloud to a quaking, smokey mountain which it identifies as Yahweh's dwelling. And he appears in the form of fire descending upon it.
Have you not read in 1 Kings 19:11-13, where there was a wind, and earthquake and a fire and the Lord was not in all of these bu in a small voice?
Have you not read 1 Kings 18? How about Genesis 19:24 - "Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven" (out of WHERE?).
The fire did not came from the earth but from God, who is in heaven (Matt 6:9, Luke 9:54). He is called "heavenly Father" by Jesus.
Heaven is the sky. Don't forget that though Mt. Sinai is Yahweh's house to be exalted above the hills, he leaves it from time to time and often travels in the form of "cloud." These quotes actually help the point I'm making. Tlaloc, another volcano god, was also a rain god. Ancient people didn't know the difference between smoke and water vapor in the sky. They followed clouds around, and thought God was leading them somewhere.
Heaven is not always the sky. Otherwise the Sun and the Moon would be in the atmosphere. 1 Thes 4:13-17 makes clear that upon Christ's return form heaven we will meet him in the air.
Besides, how can a volcano god create the heaven and earth (especially using water)?
Yahweh's mountain is Mt.Zion. His throne is Heaven and the Earth is His footstool (Isaiah 66:1). Read what God is - (John 4:24; 1 John 5:7; Acts 9).
No volcano god here (unless you worship Jinpachi Mishima) XD
According to the Bible the Sun, moon, and stars are in the atmosphere. The words Heaven, heavens, and sky, are three different english words that come from ONE Hebrew word.
Yahweh's not a volcano, he lives in one. The mountain is his house which the Bible says he built or "established" with his own hands.
Mountains reach into the heavens(sky). You praise a God who would use Earth as his foot stool?
The Hebrew word for "spirit" can also be translated as breath, wind, or air.
New Jerusalem will land on earth any time soon, according to Revelation. God does not live on Earth. If it was so, then we would have observed either a Jew in the atmosphere or in some volcano. Heaven and Earth cannot contain Him (1 Kings 8:27). Even Satan walked among what seems to be heavenly bodies (Ezekiel 28:16).
What's the point in creating the universe if its creator was a volcano god? The Earth was made out of water (Gen 1) not out of fire.
Michael, you're arguments and questions are coming from the presupposed notion that the Bible is true, and there' just no reason to do that.
There's plenty of reason to come at it from a skeptic POV. There's different gods throughout the Bible btw. It is Yahweh specifically who built a mountain to dwell in. The primordial ocean god at the beginning was before Yahweh. The Yahweh character takes credit for that creation, but that's in a completely different and later book.
The Bible can proven true with a bit of study. There is no point in listening to modern stories made up by men to discredit the Bible. Study the manuscripts and see for yourself. Why aren't you skeptic in this area as well? The Bible is consistent and composes a uniform account pointing towards Jesus. Corrupt people see different things in the Bible, from Mohammad to astrology. Test yourself whether your story will stand. People are more likely to believe a bigger lie, Hitler said.
LOL, apparently you didn't learn anything and that is exactly what I expected to hear from you. As I said, you wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the head. One day, you will and then it will be too late.
ok, let's say Christianity is real. Now from what I've been taught as a child is that God is everything, all knowing, all wise and perfect. Now take a look @ the world. It's pretty fucked up from all the death, wars, poverty, diseases etc..So this must mean that God wants all of these things to be. Since God created everything he then created hell, satan and sin. if he didnt want it he could easily get rid of it because he's God right? Idk God, you dont sound so great and perfect to me.
that is a great question, but when it said he is all knowing does it mean that he knows how everything in this world works? or that he knows everything thats going to happen in detail in each of our lifes?
those are 2 different things, and we must not confuse them.
Then it was a contradiction, because there are parts in there where people definitely have no free will, for example when Yahweh hardens the pharaoh's heart so that he WON'T free the slaves that Moses is trying to get him to release.
Another example would be the two brothers that he makes destined to become enemies before they're even born.
And since I know there's a dishonest Christian apologist excuse for that, why does giving someone free will have to mean that children get molested?
Ok dude, you can point out all those things & didnt prove anytihng, YOU ONLY CONFIRMED IT. Whether they chose the day of his birth to celebrate or not.
Heres A challenge to prove to me that your god exist, why are the stories of joseph in the old testament similar to jesus in the new. Why no historians have records of the fictional sun god.
And heres one for kicks, GOD CREATED THE EARTH IN SEVEN DAYS & HOW LONG DID HE TAKE TO CREATE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.
the biggest problem with this is that people who believe in these parallels forget that they are comparing Christianity which is now 2000 yrs old and has been influenced by paganism and other things anyway. if you are going to make a fair comparison with egypt and Christianity then compare new testament church practices and the beliefs of early egypt.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity!!!!
First religion is ALL MAN MADE!!!...
Example:Did you ever tell something to someone in like say in High School,only to have it come back to you weeks later by someone else..And the whole thing,like what you said to that one person was twisted around to a whole entire context??
Well the same thing applies to education,politics and RELIGION!!
No one knows what the entire truth is!!!..they only assume what they read or heard is the truth, and draw their own conclusions..Do you really think the people in power, whether it's in politics,education or religion are going to tell you the things or do things that are going to do damage to their creditability?
Do you really think they are going to pass rules regulations, or laws..that's going to affect their personal life?their families?their homes?their jobs?or pass laws(taxes) that affect thier 5 and 6 figure Incomes?..Hmmm,now Let me see you go to church and not donate money...lets see how long it takes for them to throw your ass right out.lol...The churches now a days are all corrupted and ALL ABOUT MONEY!!And you know what believe it or not!!!!
MONEY is the root of ALL EVIL in this world. They say money isn't everything,but lets me see your asses try to live without it! especially after the spoiled greedy fucks sitting on their asses pushing pencils telling and having every one else to do their dirty work for them,fighting their wars using.You call that hard work?.they live in their multi-million dollar homes,their expensive overpriced cars,toys,taking expensive exotic vacations on your hard earn tax money. whatever.GET FUCKING REAL!!!
it is well documented jesus was born in the summer by none biblical sources..by ppl who hated him for his parlor tricks. It was the pagan satanists that chose dec25, and created the bs tradition of putting a light(lucifer) on top of the tree (green pyramid) jus like your dollar bill, fool
1.definition of pagan: a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim, they have MANY similar rituals. "how dare you blah blah"
2.paranoid conspiracy?with all the EVIDENCE! you cant be serious..maybe your a disinfo troll.
3. thanks for proving my point, council of nicea was established when? oh ya after the Romans took over Christianity(er i mean converted too-not!) Those butt boys were pagan/satanic and they manipulated Christianity, do you think Catholics don't worship devils?
the bible clearly describes his birth and there is nothing about snowy winter nights with decorated trees.... INFACT the bible says do not and beware of those who cut down trees and bring them into thier house and decorates it with sliver and gold...... just search the truth behind christmas....
ok....If you know the truth behind Christmas and then you will know that Jesus WAS NOT born on Dec 25th. This came into play when the Roman Empire converted to Christanity and inorder to get their people to stop celebrate X-mas they introduced that lie to get them to celebrate X-mas in a more civilized way. The story of x-mas is another story. All I must say is that no christains should celebrate because every asociated with it is actual a ritual to FALSE gods...
R u all retarded the bible says the shepards were in the fields when Jesus was born also the inns were all full neither of which would happen in winter in Israel where it gets quite cold
The people dont like Zeitgeits bec it is againts religion, and religion was done to control people. So the people that cant accept that religion is not what they are condictioned to believe it is they just be angry, it is normal, they re still sleeping, controled, cant see the real world that they live as lamb controled by the Ellite that control this world.....
QUESTION: why would christians celebrate birth of Jesus on the same day as pagans celebrated birth of Horus?
ANSWER: Why did Christians make churches out of pagan temples? Not only to "bring light into darkness", but also it was very effective way to destroy pagan religion!
People celebrated Jesus, and yet at the same time they celebrated pagan holidays. So as Christians did with pagan temples, they did with pagan holidays. So no one would place birthday of a pagan god above Jesus Christ.
WRONG MATE, WRONG! This video proves that you don't know what you are talking about.
BIBLE - consists out of many books. Only smaller part is early christian tradition. Most books that are in Bible are older than jesus christ, and are taken from Jews. that's no secret. So saying that Bible is made out of early christian tradition means that you probably never opened bible, or never asked a question about its origin. And now YOU are teaching US? By telling another false claim?
Many Romans venerated the sun, whose birthday was Dec. 25, or a virility god named Mithra with the same birthday. Also, the Romans observed a raucous celebration called Saturnalia Dec. 17-23. Thus, Dec. 25 offered a date with a good theological basis that also would counter several pagan holidays.
Although we don't know the final steps, in 336 the church at Rome officially observed the "birth day of Christ" Dec. 25.
nothing to do with horus Rome was the power of the day
There was an Egyptian tradition in the cult of Horakhty whereby the priests would take an account of the movements of the sun between Dec 21st and Dec 25th. The three days where the sun appears to stand still corellates with Horus' descent into the underworld to resurrect Osiris. After the 25th of Dec the sun makes it's ascent and Horus is born as Osiris. This is my understanding. Horakhty was Jesus. Osiris in his risen aspect was Horakhty reborn aka the Christ.
Like I mentioned on the first part of this video, your sources are very bad. Your links are from selfmade historians and not from sources that shows the original Egyptian, Greek or Jewish mythology. Every book what you can get from a libary shows that your assertions are completely wrong and now go and ask a historian from a University. He would laugh his brain out. Do yourself a favour and post sources who show the truth, not selfmade stuff. Thanks!
No serious professional scholar takes Zeitgeist seriously. These are all lies. There are many videos here refuting it, and there are many books such as "THE RIDDLE OF RESURRECTION," by TND Mettinger, a non-Christian Swedish scholar. He did a count and the number of scholars who believe in a parallel you can count on one hand. There are no primary sources before Christ showing any parallels. Read also, THE GOSPEL AND THE GREEKS," by Nash.
The people on YouTube "refuting" Zeitgeist are Christian apologist conspiracy theorists.
"The Ancient Gods speak: A Guide to Egyptian Religion" is an encyclopedia published by Oxford University Press with over 50 scholarly contributors, and edited by Egyptologist Donald B Redford. I haven't read the entire thing, but it definitely backs a lot of this Egyptian stuff.
So, Zeitgeist Part 1 has actually not been debunked, exposed or refuted. Sorry. Jesus was a Sun god.
The people on Youtube promoting the Zeitgeist errors, are atheists. No recognized scholar in the world believes in the Zeitgeist claims. TND Mettinger of Sweden did a count and found that only three or four believe in the pagan-parallel lie. Read his work "THE RIDDLE OF RESURRECTION." It is the definitive scholarly work on this subject. There is nothing in the book you recommended that supports Zeitgeist. You cannot prove Christianity took from anything. You merely assert it.
Wow. That comment was just loaded with falsehood. First off Keith Thompson, Chris White and Elliot Nesche are all Christian apologist conspiracy theorists. Second, [Jesus] is described in Malachi as "the Sun of Righteousness" who will "arise with healing in his wings," pagan symbolism; the winged Sun disk. Even the Bible makes it clear Jesus is a Sun god. And third, yes, actually the book I mentioned contains parallels. You can find some on the first page and all throughout.
Ummm... I didn't say it was relevant to the Bible. I said it was a parallel tradition, not a parallel story... you are misrepresenting me. I get that a lot though.
what we have here is a misunderstanding on your part. You seem to be thinking I'm saying the tradition is relevant to the stories, when what I'm actually saying is that as relevant as the stories - not to them. It's not in the stories, hence, it's a parallel tradition, not a parallel story. That's why it's relevant, because it's a parallel.
Well of course not. It's just a parallel tradition. You're just wanting me to offer a refutable argument different from the argument I've offered (I get this a lot too). I haven't done that for you though. I suggest listening to the words without corrupting them with a bias wish that I'm wrong - I mean if you can.
The only parallel tradition you show was December 25th, and then you suggest the argument that the Bible is a product of early christian tradition. Then you don't say anything about the fact that December 25th wasn't celebrated as Jesus' birthday until CENTURIES later. You offered nothing else, no actual early christian traditions. The implication of the video is clearly deceptive to an uneducated viewer, and it won't be tolerated.
You're missing the point - again I'm used to that - December 25th, LIKE the stories, is handed down. It's a pattern of the tradition. Please do yourself a favor, take a deep breath, and chill. You're like freaking out.
and incientally, jesus was conceived of a virgin, but he was not born of a virgin. the angels told him to go to his wige and "know her". to have knowledge of somebody means to have sex with them. so mary was a virgin when she conceived YESHU but not when he was born. so there has never been a virgin birth ever.
and the waters "above teh firmament yuou speak of in one of your other videos, are at the edge of space, or the universe. thats just what the bible says so dont bash me for your sceintific beleif that the univers has no end, theoretically ity doesnt, after the deep, is heaven.
Whoa, what? I didn't see any mention about a universe there in Genesis. And you probably don't want to go assuming you know what I believe in regard to the size of the universe. For all I know, we could live inside of a giant autotroph.
there is a segmant in addendum where they bash religion by saying that they condemn men for doing things that come natural to him. why make this statement if you beleive that there is no human nature, only human behavior. thats a hypocritical statement. you are being manipulated by satanists who cant even come up with an idea that didnt come from the bible in the frist place.
Sounds like a rhetorical nitpick to me. Oh no, he said something different from he meant, yikes! No one ever does that! - that was sarcasm of course. I apologize.
It really depends on context though. See puberty is natural. Getting Grey and shriveled with age is natural. When someone steals something or kills someone though, that's a behavioral thing, brought about by their environmental conditions.
didnt ou read what i said. first of all. this society is only possible to implement by force. maybe a few generations after it has already been forcibly set in place it will thrive but the fact of the matter is nobody will go for this willingly. and who gets to do the 10 percent of jobs that cant be replaced by robots? answer me that huh.
"this society is only possible to implement by force."
Seeing as how the Venus Project is building an experimental city for showmanship to educate the world as to how we can do better, it looks to me that force would be neither necessary nor logical. It's an outdated way of handling things. Proper education is the key as a first step. This will improve technology, medicine, and the environment, thus eliminating the kind of crime we see today.
Haha! You came here on your own, man. I didn't call for you.
"if you know jesus wasnt born on 25th why mention it?"
Zeitgeist was showing that there are things we associate with Jesus that can be associated with earlier mythical gods. This is one of those. The point is to show that it's nothing special.
yea, there are, and they are false, therefore not relevant to the documentary. what you are doing is called a rationalization. the similar birthdays are brought up to claim a copycat status. if the information presented is incorrect then it is irrelevant.
dude. seriously. you are a follower of the zeitgesit religion now. congratulations, you defen it as passionately as christians defend their faith. good job
jesus was not born on december 25th by the way. since you are so well verced in the bible i would think you would already know that. just because that is what society thinks, this does not make it true.
please prove to me that jesus was born on december 25th.
Of course Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. That's just when we celebrate his birth. When Zeitgeist says "Jesus was born on December 25th," they did so after saying the same thing about a bunch of mythological gods. So clearly they're just talking about a tradition of birthday celebration, since none of those gods were ever born at all because they aren't real. And Christmas is celebrated on December 25th.
guy who made this video hates christians, zeitgeist gave him ammuntion. hes a fucktard who doesnt know anything about god or the bible. go hand yourself you douchebag.
a better future? what is wrong with you. are you under the impession that people are inherantly good? you form your seitgeist utopian society and please do it while im still alive. ill be the first person to intentionally fuck it up just to show you that people are not inherantly good. we are all evil spiteful greedy deceitful people. we have all of the good emotions and the bad ones.
I don't believe in good or bad people. I believe in people who are either sick or healthy, kind or cruel, efficient or inefficient... but there's no "evil" gene that makes a person inherently bad, and there's no evidence of evil spirits or demons, or anything like that. And it's not a Utopian society. It's just a model of efficient, progressive living.
From what I understand what you just said actually has biblical backing, as well as backing from Jewish circumcision records... whether they're accurate or not... *shrugs*
I mean Dr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, the guy speaks about him, he's not the one who's speaking ......
"he uses circular logic in the first minute of the video."
Sorry, i didn't notice that, but if you want to put that label on it it's your choice, but i think it's not circular logic, not at all !!! You seem to put that label on it for some reason.
And i think it's the same reason why you want to deny the existance of Christ, enough evidence !
Yes, if the Bible is correct and Jesus really existed he was probably born in the Spring. However since the Bible is wrong and Jesus probably never existed, that means he would have had no birth. Despite him having no birth we still celebrate this character's birth on December 25th, just as pagans celebrated the birth of Horus at that time. Parallel tradition, not a parallel story from scripture.
"However since the Bible is wrong and Jesus probably never existed, that means he would have had no birth."
You're demissing evidence from the 1st century, because there is evidence that the gospels were written in the first century...
watch?v=rZhUrKiRGrQ
Sinon greanleaf (the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University.), nobody could refute him, now check it out and study it, there is no question that Jesus lived, but you can question that he was God.
The problem with this video is that it is irrelevant to Christianity. Christians in fact were offended by the holy day Christmas aka Saturnalia (on or around Dec 25).
Catholicism, which is Paganism mixed with Christian teachings brought Christmas to their religion and it spread from their.
My church doesn't even celebrate Christmas, nor put up those pagan tree idols which represented Tummuz, the new birth of the sun god.
Jer 10:2 THUS SAITH THE LORD, LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN (pagans)...
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people ARE VAIN: for one CUTTETH A TREE OUT OF THE FOREST (you know, like on Christmas), the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; THEY FASTEN IT WITH NAILS and with hammers,THAT IT MOVE NOT.
Yeah um. The LORD Himself, kind of forbids us to celebrate that pagan holiday we now call Christmas. So again, this video is irrelevant...
This is the most repetitive argument. It's not that we're saying the Bible says Jesus is born on December 25th, we're saying that there are things we attribute to Jesus, (like this December 25th birth date) that come from paganism.
"Catholicism, which is Paganism mixed with Christian teachings brought Christmas to their religion and it spread from their. "
I said nothing about Jesus. My point in saying the above is that Catholicism brought used the date Dec 25 for a holiday, not Christians. The true Christians REJECTED this. As they ought to.
Dec 25 is irrelevant. The true Christians didn't have any affiliation, just Catholics at its start. Throughout the centuries, Christmas was opposed
I know Catholicism brought over the December 25th tradition from paganism. That's my point.
I already said "there are things we attribute to Jesus, (like this December 25th birth date) that come from paganism." See? You just agreed with me. This December 25th date comes from paganism, yes? We're in agreement, correct?
And there is no such thing as true Christianity. It's all fake. There never was a son of God messiah, and there never will be, because the Sun is just another star in the sky, and there is no angry, magical man that lives inside a mountain on the other side of the world.
Also there is a such thing as true Christianity. Whether or not you agree with it is another thing. There is also a such thing as a true Muslim, or a true Buddhist, etc. Basically, what a true Christian is, is someone who strictly obeys the the commands given to us in the Bible.
Whether you believe these commands are from God is another thing. This is just to clarify what I meant
Now about this Son/Sun stuff. They sound alike in English, but not Hebrew
Again, if you don't believe in God or a Son of God, you are free to do so. But the Bible is very clear about what it says. You told me not to twist your words, I ask, please don't twist the Bible
Isa 9:6 For unto us A CHILD IS BORN, unto us A SON (ben) IS GIVEN: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting Father (Father of eternity)...
"Basically, what a true Christian is, is someone who strictly obeys the the commands given to us in the Bible."
First off, how does that make someone a true Christian? I mean how do you know that's what does it?
Secondly, since Christians existed before the NT you must be specifically referring to the commands in the OT,yes?
Third,the son/Sun connection is from Egypt. This is that mixing cultures thing I was talking about. Egyptian rulers were "sons of the Sun," (SaRa) and "one with the Sun."
LOL i love it. Out of ALL the other information that has clearly been debunked, you made a WHOLE video trying to prove one claim, that you YOURSELF have stated there is no religious attachment in the bible of Jesus being born on the 25th. Wow to fail, guy. Way to fail.
this is a very good video. I am upset that the Theist haven't been open-minded to the Zeitgeist seeing that MANY religions pre-date Christianity. Notably Judaism and the the Sun Gods of Egypt.
They didn't just choose a time. The winter solstice comes to an end on Dec. 25th, which begins on Dec. 22nd, which is 3 days. So... The sun goes to its southern most point where it stops for 3 days and begins its return north. In other words, the sun dies and 3 days later is resurrected. This is good, for it means another year of crops (and life).
Point being, is that all these religions stories are based on observations of the sun for agricultural purposes. Why it morphed into religion is a whole other subject.
It is my "expert" opinion that the "The Three Kings" or "Three Wise Men" are the three Giza Pyramids. The whole Giza Complex faces east, as indicated by the east facing sphinx, to great the rising sun. I will stop there because again, we get into another subject.
Ya, I should thank you for all the hard work you do. I downloaded stellarium thanks to you and have used alot of your work as a jump off point to do my own research. Your also pretty entertaining at times.
I find it hilarious how people rate comments in accordance to their faith, not the facts presented here. It's getting really tiresome. This video is irrefutable, the same applies to the other 2 parts.
and to chelevSaRa, do a little research and you will find that christian scholars and non christian scholars alike agree at least on the fact that jesus excisted and he had a large following of believers. saying jesus didn't exsist is like saying abraham lincoln didn't exsist. however, you can simply say you don't believe he was really god's son without sounding like a moron if you'd like, and I have no beef with that.
janeiser34 2 years ago
probably simply chose... these are the kind of statements these peopel make. dec. 25th was probably simply chose... why should we think that because that's what you think? these loose change and zeitgeist moron's are laughable. lol. at least the debunkers actually quote the scholars and data that they are using to back up their claims. you are regurgitating fancy rhetoric, conjecture and speculation that you believed because it "sounded good". And you actually think this makes you smart.
janeiser34 2 years ago
Jesus wasn t born on december 25th but between june and august .the dec 25th date is a catholic fabrication so yes Zeitgeist applies to catholism but not to real christianism because as a christian i dont celebrate chrismas,easter or other festivals because they are of pagan origin .you should study more christianity instead of putting everything in the same religion .you actually believe this witch Acharia S? Come on she doesnt know what shes saying ,she s just another stupid new ager
SonofJaphet 2 years ago
Jesus wasn't born. He's a myth. And we celebrate his fictional birth on December 25th because as Malachi admits, Jesus is a Sun god, and December 25th is when the Sun began rising higher again.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
god has a bellybutton
MrRoachclips 2 years ago
It is funny to me after all these years that people are still debating about things they can't prove.
Hotwatty 2 years ago
@Hotwatty
Sorry, but the existence of God is so painfully obvious that the Bible doesn't bother to prove Him. Nevertheless, God can be proven by common sense (unless somebody is ignorant and narrow-minded).
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
"Rather the Bible is a product of early Christian tradition"?
...only if you blindly believe the Roman Catholic "Church"...
What about the Old Testament written hundreds of years before Christ's birth? Any clue?
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
I misspoke. The New Testament specifically is the product of Christian tradition.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
Religion=Slavery. "Obey thy master or burn in hell for all eternity." Only the feeble minded and weak give into that sort of rubbish.
afterexile 2 years ago
@afterexile
Wrong. It's more like "obey the law or you get the death penalty"
See the difference?
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
That is slavery.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
@ChelevSaRa
Are you some anarchist then? If we're made by God then we're owned by Him. If He presented His moral Law then we must obey it. One breaking it then deserves to be punished. What do you do with a malfunctioning software? You remove it or repair it.
Having offended an infinitely worthy being we deserve infinite penalty. 10 commandments hang over our heads. Jesus however, bore our sins in his body, died, was buried and resurrected. Believe this and live forever, fine having been paid.
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
That's an imposed ancient belief system. Let's grow out of it so we can find real solutions to real problems.
People make laws when they don't know how to solve a problem.
If we solve problems there's no need for laws.
If someone grows up in a violent, impoverished neighborhood, they are more likely to become violent too. It's not that they're evil and need to be punished, it's that our society hasn't solved their problem. We must illiminate the poverty that breeds this problem.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
@ChelevSaRa
Well, you're imposing your beliefs on me by discrediting the Bible. You see, there is no middle ground here.
How come people can demand justice then if laws where just made up?
A moral codex IS a solution to crimes. Abandon morals and you will live in a dystopia. It's already happening today.
People don't become evil because of their crimes. They commit crimes because they are evil (well, all people are evil). The material status makes no difference here.
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
Actually, no no knows when Jesus was born but then again, WHO CARES.
Jesus is our savior regardless of his date of birth.
IFoundIslam1 2 years ago
Jesus wasn't born. People commonly celebrate his mythical birth on December 25th though.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
LOL, another stupid atheist.
Oh well, for a minute, I thought you were another terrorist Muslim.
Like I said, no ne knows when he was born and it doesn't matter.
The fact is: He was born and there is nothing you can do about it.
IFoundIslam1 2 years ago
Calling me stupid instead of providing evidence is seen as proving my point.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
That is the point. You wouldn't believe it even if someone were to hit you in the head with it. Try reading the Bible before you pass judgement.
IFoundIslam1 2 years ago
I'm reading the Bible. You can find many of my readings online. The Bible is incapable of proving Jesus was born though. It's a religious text. It is not regarded as historical document. It will be found in the religion section at a book store, and appropriatly so. It's just the beliefs of ancient people put on paper for modern people to dumb themselves down with should they take it seriously. Why should we take it anymore seriously than any other myth involving gods?
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
@ChelevSaRa
Many historians of Christ's day recorded his existence, activities, death and even mention rumors of his resurrection. An ancient text that is true can easily prove its credibility.
I've met many atheists that claimed to know the Bible but they showed their Biblical illiteracy when tested. How can I hold your words to hold any relevance?
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
Name one historical person who was a historian at the time Jesus was alive, who recorded the miracles as laid out in the Bible.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
We can reconstruct the account of Jesus from secular sources.
There was a man named Jesus, called Christ (Josephus), he preformed "magic", give new teachings to the Israel. He was "hanged" during the Passover (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea, under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius (Tacitus). Darkness marked His death (Thallus). He claimed to be God and that He would return (Eliezar). Many believers that worshiped Him as God (Pliny the Younger) claimed immortality (Lucian of Samosata).
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
Josephus wasn't alive during the time Jesus supposedly performed miracles. The Babylonian Talmud is too late too. So is Tacitus.
Thallus' writings aren't even available to us in original form. They come from a Christian called Africanus, who unintentionally paints Jesus as a mythical Sun god.
What Eliezar are you referring to? More details please.
Pliny/Lucian are late and only confirm that there were believers - so what? People believed in Odin and Ra too.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
@ChelevSaRa
Is several years after Christ's ministry not good enough for you?
Is the New Testament not good enough for you?
Well, I know what would be good enough for you - the opinions of so-called "experts" who lived almost two thousand years after the people here mentioned.
Read John, a person from inside. He would have known best. Ask Luke, the physician. Ask Paul, persecutor turned believer.
I don't think just about anything would convince you. Prove me wrong.
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
Of course those aren't good enough for me! Why would they be? There's no reason for them to be good enough for me.
We don't live in a world where people just go around walking on water, curing the blind with a lay of hands, and raising the dead. When is the last time you saw someone perform real magic? It doesn't happen, Michael. Not in reality. We see it in fantasy. Besides, Jesus is a Sun god whose father is a volcano god. He can't be anymore real than Aten or Shamash.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
@ChelevSaRa
Volcano god? Where did you get this nonsense from?
It is logical for a being that created the laws of nature to bend them at will. Would it be possible for such a being? That's not magic, that's miracles. Know the difference.
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
Nonsense? Not at all. If you read the book of Exodus, Mt. Sinai is designated as the dwelling place of Yahweh. And it isn't the mountain presently known as Mt. Sinai. That one was named after the one in the Bible. The one in the Bible is a volcano in Saudi Arabia. That's why the the Israelites follow a pillar of "cloud" to get to Mt. Sinai, and when they get there "God" appears in the form of fire, descending upon the quakey, smoking mountain. He's a volcano god, like Pele or Tlaloc.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
@ChelevSaRa
I can trace your argument to "Sex, Ecology, and Spirituality" by Ken Wilber's (New Age-esque philosopher) and "Yahweh" by Ilil Arbel (who cites no sources).
By the same logic God is a god of light, darkness, prosperity, calamity (Isaiah 45:7), sea, air and land creatures (Genesis 1-2), sky, fertility, sun, moon, ect.
You seem to have lot of faith in writings of people that base their claims on their own authority, not reality.
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
I've never even heard of that guy. I read Exodus myself dude. The proof is on my channel. I have readings of the entire chapter uploaded. Your assumption that I just got it from this Ken Wilber guy is incorrect. Anyone who reads Exodus can see that it talks about the Israelites following this pillar of cloud to a quaking, smokey mountain which it identifies as Yahweh's dwelling. And he appears in the form of fire descending upon it.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
entire book is what i meant to say
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
@ChelevSaRa
Have you not read in 1 Kings 19:11-13, where there was a wind, and earthquake and a fire and the Lord was not in all of these bu in a small voice?
Have you not read 1 Kings 18? How about Genesis 19:24 - "Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven" (out of WHERE?).
The fire did not came from the earth but from God, who is in heaven (Matt 6:9, Luke 9:54). He is called "heavenly Father" by Jesus.
Be careful when reading the Bible.
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
Heaven is the sky. Don't forget that though Mt. Sinai is Yahweh's house to be exalted above the hills, he leaves it from time to time and often travels in the form of "cloud." These quotes actually help the point I'm making. Tlaloc, another volcano god, was also a rain god. Ancient people didn't know the difference between smoke and water vapor in the sky. They followed clouds around, and thought God was leading them somewhere.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
@ChelevSaRa
Heaven is not always the sky. Otherwise the Sun and the Moon would be in the atmosphere. 1 Thes 4:13-17 makes clear that upon Christ's return form heaven we will meet him in the air.
Besides, how can a volcano god create the heaven and earth (especially using water)?
Yahweh's mountain is Mt.Zion. His throne is Heaven and the Earth is His footstool (Isaiah 66:1). Read what God is - (John 4:24; 1 John 5:7; Acts 9).
No volcano god here (unless you worship Jinpachi Mishima) XD
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
According to the Bible the Sun, moon, and stars are in the atmosphere. The words Heaven, heavens, and sky, are three different english words that come from ONE Hebrew word.
Yahweh's not a volcano, he lives in one. The mountain is his house which the Bible says he built or "established" with his own hands.
Mountains reach into the heavens(sky). You praise a God who would use Earth as his foot stool?
The Hebrew word for "spirit" can also be translated as breath, wind, or air.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
Zion goes with the whole new Jerusalem thing. It's the new Sinai basically.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
@ChelevSaRa
New Jerusalem will land on earth any time soon, according to Revelation. God does not live on Earth. If it was so, then we would have observed either a Jew in the atmosphere or in some volcano. Heaven and Earth cannot contain Him (1 Kings 8:27). Even Satan walked among what seems to be heavenly bodies (Ezekiel 28:16).
What's the point in creating the universe if its creator was a volcano god? The Earth was made out of water (Gen 1) not out of fire.
So much for your Jinpachi Mishima.
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
Michael, you're arguments and questions are coming from the presupposed notion that the Bible is true, and there' just no reason to do that.
There's plenty of reason to come at it from a skeptic POV. There's different gods throughout the Bible btw. It is Yahweh specifically who built a mountain to dwell in. The primordial ocean god at the beginning was before Yahweh. The Yahweh character takes credit for that creation, but that's in a completely different and later book.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
@ChelevSaRa
The Bible can proven true with a bit of study. There is no point in listening to modern stories made up by men to discredit the Bible. Study the manuscripts and see for yourself. Why aren't you skeptic in this area as well? The Bible is consistent and composes a uniform account pointing towards Jesus. Corrupt people see different things in the Bible, from Mohammad to astrology. Test yourself whether your story will stand. People are more likely to believe a bigger lie, Hitler said.
MichaelGabrielR 2 years ago
You also sound like someone who was disappointed because their prayer wasn't answered.
IFoundIslam1 2 years ago
LOL, apparently you didn't learn anything and that is exactly what I expected to hear from you. As I said, you wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the head. One day, you will and then it will be too late.
IFoundIslam1 2 years ago
Merry Christmas!!!, oh wait!, I cant say that!, someone might get offended!, id probably be less offensive if I just said "Merry Nigger"
ridemytube247 2 years ago 4
and for those who believe the zeitgeist 1
look for zeitgeistdebunked
MikeDole1 2 years ago
you tried to defend zeitgeist 1 with this 2 minute video??
what a weak argument and waste of 2 minutes....
you should SERIOUSLY change the title to sh!itty 2 minute video bahahahaha.
MikeDole1 2 years ago
Well, it was a by point series... but you're right, I can do a lot better.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
your confused! we're all confused!
iLKa8822 2 years ago
ok, let's say Christianity is real. Now from what I've been taught as a child is that God is everything, all knowing, all wise and perfect. Now take a look @ the world. It's pretty fucked up from all the death, wars, poverty, diseases etc..So this must mean that God wants all of these things to be. Since God created everything he then created hell, satan and sin. if he didnt want it he could easily get rid of it because he's God right? Idk God, you dont sound so great and perfect to me.
slipknot98911 2 years ago
Go fuck your self.
theprankster1account 2 years ago
slipnot
that is a great question, but when it said he is all knowing does it mean that he knows how everything in this world works? or that he knows everything thats going to happen in detail in each of our lifes?
those are 2 different things, and we must not confuse them.
MikeDole1 2 years ago
he gave us all free will, to do what we want, its on death that we are given eternal life or eternal hell.
philibean82 2 years ago
Where'd you get that notion?
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
the bible!
philibean82 2 years ago
Then it was a contradiction, because there are parts in there where people definitely have no free will, for example when Yahweh hardens the pharaoh's heart so that he WON'T free the slaves that Moses is trying to get him to release.
Another example would be the two brothers that he makes destined to become enemies before they're even born.
And since I know there's a dishonest Christian apologist excuse for that, why does giving someone free will have to mean that children get molested?
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
Free will is a myth. I suggest you study Nietzsche when you have the time. Heaven and hell are also myths.
danieljliversLXXXIX 2 years ago 4
Free will my ass. Once you become christian, you lose it all together. Facist pigs.
ShaolinDynasty 2 years ago 2
I thougt it was lusifer when he stood up against god, and the battle in the heavens started. Evil and good were created and man had free will.
NitroxideHS 2 years ago
Ok dude, you can point out all those things & didnt prove anytihng, YOU ONLY CONFIRMED IT. Whether they chose the day of his birth to celebrate or not.
Heres A challenge to prove to me that your god exist, why are the stories of joseph in the old testament similar to jesus in the new. Why no historians have records of the fictional sun god.
And heres one for kicks, GOD CREATED THE EARTH IN SEVEN DAYS & HOW LONG DID HE TAKE TO CREATE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.
BadassCeino 2 years ago
the biggest problem with this is that people who believe in these parallels forget that they are comparing Christianity which is now 2000 yrs old and has been influenced by paganism and other things anyway. if you are going to make a fair comparison with egypt and Christianity then compare new testament church practices and the beliefs of early egypt.
ngimangi 2 years ago
yeah... fail
tharemedybeats 2 years ago
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity!!!!
First religion is ALL MAN MADE!!!...
Example:Did you ever tell something to someone in like say in High School,only to have it come back to you weeks later by someone else..And the whole thing,like what you said to that one person was twisted around to a whole entire context??
hrdrocn 2 years ago
Well the same thing applies to education,politics and RELIGION!!
No one knows what the entire truth is!!!..they only assume what they read or heard is the truth, and draw their own conclusions..Do you really think the people in power, whether it's in politics,education or religion are going to tell you the things or do things that are going to do damage to their creditability?
hrdrocn 2 years ago
Do you really think they are going to pass rules regulations, or laws..that's going to affect their personal life?their families?their homes?their jobs?or pass laws(taxes) that affect thier 5 and 6 figure Incomes?..Hmmm,now Let me see you go to church and not donate money...lets see how long it takes for them to throw your ass right out.lol...The churches now a days are all corrupted and ALL ABOUT MONEY!!And you know what believe it or not!!!!
hrdrocn 2 years ago
MONEY is the root of ALL EVIL in this world. They say money isn't everything,but lets me see your asses try to live without it! especially after the spoiled greedy fucks sitting on their asses pushing pencils telling and having every one else to do their dirty work for them,fighting their wars using.You call that hard work?.they live in their multi-million dollar homes,their expensive overpriced cars,toys,taking expensive exotic vacations on your hard earn tax money. whatever.GET FUCKING REAL!!!
hrdrocn 2 years ago
FAIL
it is well documented jesus was born in the summer by none biblical sources..by ppl who hated him for his parlor tricks. It was the pagan satanists that chose dec25, and created the bs tradition of putting a light(lucifer) on top of the tree (green pyramid) jus like your dollar bill, fool
thegamefanman 2 years ago
Oh wow. I didn't know that. What is this documentation? No one has ever mentioned it until now.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
thegamefanman....you are a moron.
how dare you compare pagan nature religions with satanism.
your comment just makes you seem like a paranoid conspiracy buff who doesnt have a clue.
the council of nicea decided dec25th, the same time they decided what to put in the bible.
you, sir, FAIL.
dizzykat06 2 years ago
1.definition of pagan: a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim, they have MANY similar rituals. "how dare you blah blah"
2.paranoid conspiracy?with all the EVIDENCE! you cant be serious..maybe your a disinfo troll.
3. thanks for proving my point, council of nicea was established when? oh ya after the Romans took over Christianity(er i mean converted too-not!) Those butt boys were pagan/satanic and they manipulated Christianity, do you think Catholics don't worship devils?
retard.
thegamefanman 2 years ago
Comment removed
thegamefanman 2 years ago
you sir, are a brainwashed sheeppl
I understand why you buy into all the bs..i really do. Mind control is a fickle thing.
Expand your study before you troll around calling ppl morons, paranoid and fails. I feel for you and people like you.
thegamefanman 2 years ago
moreover.....
the bible clearly describes his birth and there is nothing about snowy winter nights with decorated trees.... INFACT the bible says do not and beware of those who cut down trees and bring them into thier house and decorates it with sliver and gold...... just search the truth behind christmas....
YaB0yPT 2 years ago
It also says Yahweh's house is a mountain. It's true; The cultural view of the bible accounts seem to constantly contradict what's actually in it.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
ok....If you know the truth behind Christmas and then you will know that Jesus WAS NOT born on Dec 25th. This came into play when the Roman Empire converted to Christanity and inorder to get their people to stop celebrate X-mas they introduced that lie to get them to celebrate X-mas in a more civilized way. The story of x-mas is another story. All I must say is that no christains should celebrate because every asociated with it is actual a ritual to FALSE gods...
YaB0yPT 2 years ago
hey, where's part 1 of this? I can't find it
meerkatvvv 2 years ago
R u all retarded the bible says the shepards were in the fields when Jesus was born also the inns were all full neither of which would happen in winter in Israel where it gets quite cold
outlander024 2 years ago
If you were listening you'd note we were talking about a parallel tradition as opposed to a parallel story.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
The maker of this video is a retard that doesn't know how to do simmple research.
zetsway5000 2 years ago
lol then what would you call the work of D.M. Murdock, aka "Acharya S.?
Just a word of advice, when you call someone a retard try to make sure you don't mispell a simple word like "SIMPLE" in the same sentence lol
moety2 2 years ago
The people dont like Zeitgeits bec it is againts religion, and religion was done to control people. So the people that cant accept that religion is not what they are condictioned to believe it is they just be angry, it is normal, they re still sleeping, controled, cant see the real world that they live as lamb controled by the Ellite that control this world.....
JetztdieWahrheit 2 years ago 2
Check out Hector Avalos: How Archeology killed biblical history
hellraiser313 2 years ago
QUESTION: why would christians celebrate birth of Jesus on the same day as pagans celebrated birth of Horus?
ANSWER: Why did Christians make churches out of pagan temples? Not only to "bring light into darkness", but also it was very effective way to destroy pagan religion!
People celebrated Jesus, and yet at the same time they celebrated pagan holidays. So as Christians did with pagan temples, they did with pagan holidays. So no one would place birthday of a pagan god above Jesus Christ.
pinkky84 2 years ago
WRONG MATE, WRONG! This video proves that you don't know what you are talking about.
BIBLE - consists out of many books. Only smaller part is early christian tradition. Most books that are in Bible are older than jesus christ, and are taken from Jews. that's no secret. So saying that Bible is made out of early christian tradition means that you probably never opened bible, or never asked a question about its origin. And now YOU are teaching US? By telling another false claim?
pinkky84 2 years ago 2
zeitgeist movie rocks!!! they all expose the religious lies
underclassdamnriot 2 years ago
Many Romans venerated the sun, whose birthday was Dec. 25, or a virility god named Mithra with the same birthday. Also, the Romans observed a raucous celebration called Saturnalia Dec. 17-23. Thus, Dec. 25 offered a date with a good theological basis that also would counter several pagan holidays.
Although we don't know the final steps, in 336 the church at Rome officially observed the "birth day of Christ" Dec. 25.
nothing to do with horus Rome was the power of the day
robertfusion 2 years ago 3
There was an Egyptian tradition in the cult of Horakhty whereby the priests would take an account of the movements of the sun between Dec 21st and Dec 25th. The three days where the sun appears to stand still corellates with Horus' descent into the underworld to resurrect Osiris. After the 25th of Dec the sun makes it's ascent and Horus is born as Osiris. This is my understanding. Horakhty was Jesus. Osiris in his risen aspect was Horakhty reborn aka the Christ.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
Like I mentioned on the first part of this video, your sources are very bad. Your links are from selfmade historians and not from sources that shows the original Egyptian, Greek or Jewish mythology. Every book what you can get from a libary shows that your assertions are completely wrong and now go and ask a historian from a University. He would laugh his brain out. Do yourself a favour and post sources who show the truth, not selfmade stuff. Thanks!
66mra 2 years ago
I'm not gonna defend my sources on this one. There's some specifics they lack, and clarifications that need to be made.
"Every book what you can get from a libary shows that your assertions are completely wrong"
No, I've found back up to some of this from library books. However a lot of books on this matter are missing from the library.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
No serious professional scholar takes Zeitgeist seriously. These are all lies. There are many videos here refuting it, and there are many books such as "THE RIDDLE OF RESURRECTION," by TND Mettinger, a non-Christian Swedish scholar. He did a count and the number of scholars who believe in a parallel you can count on one hand. There are no primary sources before Christ showing any parallels. Read also, THE GOSPEL AND THE GREEKS," by Nash.
Apologist117 2 years ago
The people on YouTube "refuting" Zeitgeist are Christian apologist conspiracy theorists.
"The Ancient Gods speak: A Guide to Egyptian Religion" is an encyclopedia published by Oxford University Press with over 50 scholarly contributors, and edited by Egyptologist Donald B Redford. I haven't read the entire thing, but it definitely backs a lot of this Egyptian stuff.
So, Zeitgeist Part 1 has actually not been debunked, exposed or refuted. Sorry. Jesus was a Sun god.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
The people on Youtube promoting the Zeitgeist errors, are atheists. No recognized scholar in the world believes in the Zeitgeist claims. TND Mettinger of Sweden did a count and found that only three or four believe in the pagan-parallel lie. Read his work "THE RIDDLE OF RESURRECTION." It is the definitive scholarly work on this subject. There is nothing in the book you recommended that supports Zeitgeist. You cannot prove Christianity took from anything. You merely assert it.
Apologist117 2 years ago
Wow. That comment was just loaded with falsehood. First off Keith Thompson, Chris White and Elliot Nesche are all Christian apologist conspiracy theorists. Second, [Jesus] is described in Malachi as "the Sun of Righteousness" who will "arise with healing in his wings," pagan symbolism; the winged Sun disk. Even the Bible makes it clear Jesus is a Sun god. And third, yes, actually the book I mentioned contains parallels. You can find some on the first page and all throughout.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
I feel compelled to say it again....
THANK YOU SO MUCH for making this video!!
You simply kick ass:)
blaziermissy 2 years ago
This video is fail. Christians didn't celebrate Jesus' birth on December 25th until 3rd century AD. And somehow this is relevant to the Bible? Moron.
gtg309v 2 years ago
Ummm... I didn't say it was relevant to the Bible. I said it was a parallel tradition, not a parallel story... you are misrepresenting me. I get that a lot though.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
You said "the parallel traditions are just as relevant as the parallel stories, if not more so".
You misrepresented yourself, idiot.
gtg309v 2 years ago
Ad hominem.
what we have here is a misunderstanding on your part. You seem to be thinking I'm saying the tradition is relevant to the stories, when what I'm actually saying is that as relevant as the stories - not to them. It's not in the stories, hence, it's a parallel tradition, not a parallel story. That's why it's relevant, because it's a parallel.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
The December 25th tradition has no relevance whatsoever to the ORIGINS of Christianity. None... Congratulations on a fail video.
gtg309v 2 years ago
Well of course not. It's just a parallel tradition. You're just wanting me to offer a refutable argument different from the argument I've offered (I get this a lot too). I haven't done that for you though. I suggest listening to the words without corrupting them with a bias wish that I'm wrong - I mean if you can.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
The only parallel tradition you show was December 25th, and then you suggest the argument that the Bible is a product of early christian tradition. Then you don't say anything about the fact that December 25th wasn't celebrated as Jesus' birthday until CENTURIES later. You offered nothing else, no actual early christian traditions. The implication of the video is clearly deceptive to an uneducated viewer, and it won't be tolerated.
gtg309v 2 years ago
You're missing the point - again I'm used to that - December 25th, LIKE the stories, is handed down. It's a pattern of the tradition. Please do yourself a favor, take a deep breath, and chill. You're like freaking out.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is Christian propaganda. Many years ago the Christians, and the Muslims, tore the great book apart that explains the truth about the
ancients before you. They have kept the truth from you to keep control.
The only reason this movie was even made is because Zeitgeist revealed the truth about the perversion of sun worship, crippling the Christian numbers.
Free yourself and embrace the consciousness of the world being connected as one.
National Burn Your Bible Day December 25 2012
interested976 2 years ago 3
and incientally, jesus was conceived of a virgin, but he was not born of a virgin. the angels told him to go to his wige and "know her". to have knowledge of somebody means to have sex with them. so mary was a virgin when she conceived YESHU but not when he was born. so there has never been a virgin birth ever.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
Haha! Right on.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
ya um. i read my bible.
and the waters "above teh firmament yuou speak of in one of your other videos, are at the edge of space, or the universe. thats just what the bible says so dont bash me for your sceintific beleif that the univers has no end, theoretically ity doesnt, after the deep, is heaven.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
Whoa, what? I didn't see any mention about a universe there in Genesis. And you probably don't want to go assuming you know what I believe in regard to the size of the universe. For all I know, we could live inside of a giant autotroph.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
a plant, no i dont think we live in a plant.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
I know.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
there is a segmant in addendum where they bash religion by saying that they condemn men for doing things that come natural to him. why make this statement if you beleive that there is no human nature, only human behavior. thats a hypocritical statement. you are being manipulated by satanists who cant even come up with an idea that didnt come from the bible in the frist place.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
Sounds like a rhetorical nitpick to me. Oh no, he said something different from he meant, yikes! No one ever does that! - that was sarcasm of course. I apologize.
It really depends on context though. See puberty is natural. Getting Grey and shriveled with age is natural. When someone steals something or kills someone though, that's a behavioral thing, brought about by their environmental conditions.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
and religion condemns people for those things. so why is religion bad?
sonofturbo 2 years ago
jacques fresco is not a bad ass.
didnt ou read what i said. first of all. this society is only possible to implement by force. maybe a few generations after it has already been forcibly set in place it will thrive but the fact of the matter is nobody will go for this willingly. and who gets to do the 10 percent of jobs that cant be replaced by robots? answer me that huh.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
"this society is only possible to implement by force."
Seeing as how the Venus Project is building an experimental city for showmanship to educate the world as to how we can do better, it looks to me that force would be neither necessary nor logical. It's an outdated way of handling things. Proper education is the key as a first step. This will improve technology, medicine, and the environment, thus eliminating the kind of crime we see today.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
maybe you should check out zeitgeist addendum and find out what kind of looney shit you are following.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
I thought Addendum pretty much rocked. At least the second half. Jacques Fresco is a badass.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
if you know jesus wasnt born on 25th why mention it? stop wasting your life. and stop wasting mine.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
"stop wasting your life. and stop wasting mine."
Haha! You came here on your own, man. I didn't call for you.
"if you know jesus wasnt born on 25th why mention it?"
Zeitgeist was showing that there are things we associate with Jesus that can be associated with earlier mythical gods. This is one of those. The point is to show that it's nothing special.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
yea, there are, and they are false, therefore not relevant to the documentary. what you are doing is called a rationalization. the similar birthdays are brought up to claim a copycat status. if the information presented is incorrect then it is irrelevant.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
and zeitgeist has been debunked. due the discovery channel made a documentary debunking zeitgeist. zeitgesits is new world order propaganda.
you are sucha sheep.
you didnt read any of acharya s books. neither did anybody on here.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
Discovery channel?? Awesome! I wanna see it!
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
dude. seriously. you are a follower of the zeitgesit religion now. congratulations, you defen it as passionately as christians defend their faith. good job
sonofturbo 2 years ago
if you truly seek the truth. regardless of what it may prove. you will find it. if you merely seek to disprove god. you will waste your life.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
jesus was not born on december 25th by the way. since you are so well verced in the bible i would think you would already know that. just because that is what society thinks, this does not make it true.
please prove to me that jesus was born on december 25th.
becasue im sure that horus wasnt either.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
Of course Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. That's just when we celebrate his birth. When Zeitgeist says "Jesus was born on December 25th," they did so after saying the same thing about a bunch of mythological gods. So clearly they're just talking about a tradition of birthday celebration, since none of those gods were ever born at all because they aren't real. And Christmas is celebrated on December 25th.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
guy who made this video hates christians, zeitgeist gave him ammuntion. hes a fucktard who doesnt know anything about god or the bible. go hand yourself you douchebag.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
I don't hate anyone. This isn't about hatred. If we want progress toward a better future people need to be educated, rather subjugated.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
a better future? what is wrong with you. are you under the impession that people are inherantly good? you form your seitgeist utopian society and please do it while im still alive. ill be the first person to intentionally fuck it up just to show you that people are not inherantly good. we are all evil spiteful greedy deceitful people. we have all of the good emotions and the bad ones.
sonofturbo 2 years ago
I don't believe in good or bad people. I believe in people who are either sick or healthy, kind or cruel, efficient or inefficient... but there's no "evil" gene that makes a person inherently bad, and there's no evidence of evil spirits or demons, or anything like that. And it's not a Utopian society. It's just a model of efficient, progressive living.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
Jesus was CONCEIVED on Dec 25 - that's not when he was born....
fnub 2 years ago
From what I understand what you just said actually has biblical backing, as well as backing from Jewish circumcision records... whether they're accurate or not... *shrugs*
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
Ciao ciao !!!
CreationistsWON 2 years ago
I mean Dr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, the guy speaks about him, he's not the one who's speaking ......
"he uses circular logic in the first minute of the video."
Sorry, i didn't notice that, but if you want to put that label on it it's your choice, but i think it's not circular logic, not at all !!! You seem to put that label on it for some reason.
And i think it's the same reason why you want to deny the existance of Christ, enough evidence !
Peace anyway
CreationistsWON 2 years ago
Jesus was born in the spring.......propaganda whore.
CreationistsWON 2 years ago
Yes, if the Bible is correct and Jesus really existed he was probably born in the Spring. However since the Bible is wrong and Jesus probably never existed, that means he would have had no birth. Despite him having no birth we still celebrate this character's birth on December 25th, just as pagans celebrated the birth of Horus at that time. Parallel tradition, not a parallel story from scripture.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
"However since the Bible is wrong and Jesus probably never existed, that means he would have had no birth."
You're demissing evidence from the 1st century, because there is evidence that the gospels were written in the first century...
watch?v=rZhUrKiRGrQ
Sinon greanleaf (the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University.), nobody could refute him, now check it out and study it, there is no question that Jesus lived, but you can question that he was God.
Peace
CreationistsWON 2 years ago
"You're demissing evidence from the 1st century, because there is evidence that the gospels were written in the first century..."
The gospels are stories, not historical records. Jesus is a character in them, as Luke Skywalker is a character in Star Wars.
"there is no question that Jesus lived, but you can question that he was God."
Yes, actually, there is question, hence us having this conversation. Your tactic is self deluding.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
"The gospels are stories, not historical records."
I asked you to study this guy, but obviously you didn't.
"Jesus is a character in them, as Luke Skywalker is a character in Star Wars."
Ohhw yeah right, also records that have been proven to be based on Skywalker almost two thousand years ago.
"hence us having this conversation. Your tactic is self deluding. "
Nope, you deludetd yourself by not giving yourself the chance to take the guy i mentioned seriously.....
You don't want to learn.
CreationistsWON 2 years ago
Be fair to yourself and study this guy, why do you want to live in a seldmade twilight world ????
Go ahead, look how many historians worldwide back this guy up, even nonchristians.....
Come on ..... be fair to yourself.
CreationistsWON 2 years ago
If you're talking about the guy from watch?v=rZhUrKiRGrQ, he uses circular logic in the first minute of the video. How can I take him seriously?
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
The problem with this video is that it is irrelevant to Christianity. Christians in fact were offended by the holy day Christmas aka Saturnalia (on or around Dec 25).
Catholicism, which is Paganism mixed with Christian teachings brought Christmas to their religion and it spread from their.
My church doesn't even celebrate Christmas, nor put up those pagan tree idols which represented Tummuz, the new birth of the sun god.
Christians who celebrate Christmas are deceived.
eazail 2 years ago
Jer 10:2 THUS SAITH THE LORD, LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN (pagans)...
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people ARE VAIN: for one CUTTETH A TREE OUT OF THE FOREST (you know, like on Christmas), the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; THEY FASTEN IT WITH NAILS and with hammers,THAT IT MOVE NOT.
Yeah um. The LORD Himself, kind of forbids us to celebrate that pagan holiday we now call Christmas. So again, this video is irrelevant...
eazail 2 years ago
This is the most repetitive argument. It's not that we're saying the Bible says Jesus is born on December 25th, we're saying that there are things we attribute to Jesus, (like this December 25th birth date) that come from paganism.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
Did you not read what I wrote?
"Catholicism, which is Paganism mixed with Christian teachings brought Christmas to their religion and it spread from their. "
I said nothing about Jesus. My point in saying the above is that Catholicism brought used the date Dec 25 for a holiday, not Christians. The true Christians REJECTED this. As they ought to.
Dec 25 is irrelevant. The true Christians didn't have any affiliation, just Catholics at its start. Throughout the centuries, Christmas was opposed
eazail 2 years ago
Do you have anything new to offer?
I know Catholicism brought over the December 25th tradition from paganism. That's my point.
I already said "there are things we attribute to Jesus, (like this December 25th birth date) that come from paganism." See? You just agreed with me. This December 25th date comes from paganism, yes? We're in agreement, correct?
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
And there is no such thing as true Christianity. It's all fake. There never was a son of God messiah, and there never will be, because the Sun is just another star in the sky, and there is no angry, magical man that lives inside a mountain on the other side of the world.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
We are in agreement, yes, Dec is Pagan.
Also there is a such thing as true Christianity. Whether or not you agree with it is another thing. There is also a such thing as a true Muslim, or a true Buddhist, etc. Basically, what a true Christian is, is someone who strictly obeys the the commands given to us in the Bible.
Whether you believe these commands are from God is another thing. This is just to clarify what I meant
Now about this Son/Sun stuff. They sound alike in English, but not Hebrew
eazail 2 years ago
"Son" in Hebrew ="ben"
"Sun" in Hebrew ="shemesh"
Again, if you don't believe in God or a Son of God, you are free to do so. But the Bible is very clear about what it says. You told me not to twist your words, I ask, please don't twist the Bible
Isa 9:6 For unto us A CHILD IS BORN, unto us A SON (ben) IS GIVEN: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting Father (Father of eternity)...
The "ben" Son of God.
eazail 2 years ago
"You told me not to twist your words, I ask, please don't twist the Bible"
Was there a time I did, or are you just saying that to make sure?
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
I mentioned it to prevent future twisting.
And yes I am referring to the moral law of the Old Testament. Also the New Testament started at Jesus' death.
Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new testament, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause HE IS THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW TESTAMENT , that by means of death...
Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of NECESSITY BE THE DEATH of the testator.
Amen?
eazail 2 years ago
"Basically, what a true Christian is, is someone who strictly obeys the the commands given to us in the Bible."
First off, how does that make someone a true Christian? I mean how do you know that's what does it?
Secondly, since Christians existed before the NT you must be specifically referring to the commands in the OT,yes?
Third,the son/Sun connection is from Egypt. This is that mixing cultures thing I was talking about. Egyptian rulers were "sons of the Sun," (SaRa) and "one with the Sun."
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
LOL i love it. Out of ALL the other information that has clearly been debunked, you made a WHOLE video trying to prove one claim, that you YOURSELF have stated there is no religious attachment in the bible of Jesus being born on the 25th. Wow to fail, guy. Way to fail.
TsurukoHideki 2 years ago
and most Theists claim that religion is not a system of control =(
There is a BIG difference between being spiritual and believing in a higher power and being OBEDIENT to a religion.
Darkgravx12 2 years ago
this is a very good video. I am upset that the Theist haven't been open-minded to the Zeitgeist seeing that MANY religions pre-date Christianity. Notably Judaism and the the Sun Gods of Egypt.
Darkgravx12 2 years ago
Awesome trolling 5 stars
Freemann1974 2 years ago
all religions are plagiarized
MexicanPride555 2 years ago 2
They didn't just choose a time. The winter solstice comes to an end on Dec. 25th, which begins on Dec. 22nd, which is 3 days. So... The sun goes to its southern most point where it stops for 3 days and begins its return north. In other words, the sun dies and 3 days later is resurrected. This is good, for it means another year of crops (and life).
ScottJanssen 2 years ago
Well yeah. There's that.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
Point being, is that all these religions stories are based on observations of the sun for agricultural purposes. Why it morphed into religion is a whole other subject.
It is my "expert" opinion that the "The Three Kings" or "Three Wise Men" are the three Giza Pyramids. The whole Giza Complex faces east, as indicated by the east facing sphinx, to great the rising sun. I will stop there because again, we get into another subject.
ScottJanssen 2 years ago
Hey good job on this. I hope to see the rest soon!
ReasonOfAbortion 2 years ago
Thank you! It's nice to hear a compliment again.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
Ya, I should thank you for all the hard work you do. I downloaded stellarium thanks to you and have used alot of your work as a jump off point to do my own research. Your also pretty entertaining at times.
rangerider79 2 years ago
Thanks man! Glad to be of service.
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
vrod000 unblocked on 3/21/09 as promised
ChelevSaRa 2 years ago
Bitchen!!!! Graet job.
nebulajr 3 years ago
Thank you! I love getting positive feedback every once and a while.
ChelevSaRa 3 years ago
I find it hilarious how people rate comments in accordance to their faith, not the facts presented here. It's getting really tiresome. This video is irrefutable, the same applies to the other 2 parts.
Seriously, stop being so childish.
dudekin 3 years ago