Sam Harris How difficult would it be to improve the bible?

[no1hoopsman]

Wouldn't make any difference if people misinterpret the message or abuse the power or misuse the terminology and idea; the US send it's troops to war with the President saying God Bless America; and yet the Bible is condemned for it's (mis-read) story

[itsmichellecullen]

"Without belief, science evaporates." What? Science is based solely on NOT believing, but knowing. You don't have to believe ANYTHING science tells you. You go and see for yourself. Science is a way to see what actually is, you don't have to have faith at all.

[IshYehudi613]

@itsmichellecullen There is an element of faith that permeates science. Take Atheists for example

[IamBHM]

@itsmichellecullen You're defining belief far more narrowly than Sam was using the term, and more narrowly than it is usually used, in my experience. Knowledge is sometimes defined as justified true belief, which would make it impossible for someone to know something that they did not also believe. We have the terms "faith" or "blind faith" to describe unjustified belief, but a belief, at its heart, is just something that you think is true.

[subnoize123]

@itsmichellecullen You believe the sky is blue do you not? You believe it is blue because the evidence suggests it is blue, am I correct? You have faith that your measurements are working correctly (your eyes perception of color) am I wrong? Unless your like five years old, you should know singular words can have multiple meanings.

[TryTheRedPill]

I never knew Ben Stiller was this articulate and so surgically skilled at exposing the blatant absurdities of Christianity. Go Ben!

[MrSmashman1981]

I just got new found respect for Ben Stiller

[tobo86]

If you point your wii remote at the screen and press z, you can shoot the bad guy running back and forth in the background

[Davidson762]

Is there a relay-race going on in the background or something???

[beag00]

Oh the wonders of technology. There is audio only in one channel.

[LigerSupremacy]

@beag00

That was god striking back. He also commanded those idiots to run around in the back to distract you from realizing Sam Harris is right.

[WilliamLongfellow]

What the hell are those guys running in the background for?

[IseeRightThrough2you]

The guys who keep running back and forth in the background are kind of distracting.

[fdasherv]

Immediate improvement upon the bible: Throw it the fuck out.

[jaieet]

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[saleemalbuz]

Issac Newton invented the calculus !!! interesting I just think I read somewhere (Brief History of Time) that Isaac Newton actually took the idea of this beautiful mathamtical scince (The Calculus) from a not very well known German mathamatician who sent his original work for Newton to be evaluated so Newton claimed it to himself. Anyway, it is just a thought. Calculaus still is one of the most useful tools ever inebted for humanity.

[skywize]

They should replace the bible with the Neo-Tech Discoveries. It's just as long, just as annoying to read, but is morally superior, and godless. I have no problems with the bible as a work of fiction. It is when people believe in it's nonsense where the problems start. As far as I am aware, no one has ever been tied to a steak and set on fire over Harry Potter.

[Enzo012]

You could easily improve the Bible but it has historical value. Its like saying you could improve stonehenge with modern technology but if you did you would ruin it.

[JaredCS]

@Enzo012 That isn't a good comparison. The vast majority of people treat the bible as a hypothesis for how to live a happy, fulfilling life and how to get into the afterlife; not as a piece of art as you suggest. In this sense the bible should be put on the same level as scientific studies because experimenting with it's principles yields specific results and those results have some relation to the desired or expected outcome.

[Enzo012]

@JaredCS It does contain some good practical moral philosophy along with parts that are best to take as historical cultural context, much like all the other holy texts in the world. I don't think it should be "improved" though as it would no longer be something spiritually or historically authentic. It would be like rebuilding stone henge from fibreglass.

[JaredCS]

He's not suggesting we should literally change the bible. He's just saying we should adopt a new standard of morality and view it as you suggest; a historical artifact. As an artifact, sure, it does not need to be improved upon. But as a hypothesis for human well being, it long overdue for a new edition. Archive the old one if you please. A relevant analogy would be using horses and slaves to build a skyscraper. In 2011, there are way faster, more efficient ways to achieve that outcome.

[Enzo012]

@JaredCS There are a great many modern day Christian books that deal with human well being and morality. The Bible itself is the tradition and foundation of the Christian faith so I doubt a new improved edition would go down well.

[Sweence]

Sam is our greatest thinker!

[Johnandvanessa]

no sound

[Mykiss20]

I have already watched this vid 4 times and I still don't know what its about. I can't stop laughing whenever that guy runs in the background

[wachnathan]

Thats true.

[aPpLeJuIcE37RainLucy]

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[Bot23]

I think that Ben Stiller raises some good points.

[bfoaliali]

@Bot23 hahaha og my fhudf...sorry, when I first resd you comment I jsut brust out laughing pgoi litterally, that you, ware sooo funny haahahah omg. Sorry, forgive me, sir; allow me to re write that. I can't believe how funny your comment truly was. Bless you.

[Anzacpaul]

240p we meet again.

[LivingResurrectionTV]

God does not support slavery. Jesus said to love even your enemies and to live for the sake of others. The speaker in this video totally misunderstands and misrepresents the bible. He attributes what fallen men did throughout fallen history even today as being from God. He has no clue and did not read the bible with understanding or he read just the parts he wanted to support his personal agenda.

[The26Dude]

@LivingResurrectionTV so why then does he demand that all human beings love him and follow his laws to the very letter, can convict us of thought crime and if we object we will burn in hell? you really are an ignorant fool. are you sure YOU'VE read the bible and understood what it means? ffs.

[LivingResurrectionTV]

Hi The26Dude True love requires freedom that is why God gave us free will. Freedom also comes with responsibility. God is our eternal Heavenly Parent. He created us and the whole universe for free. He raises the sun for you every morning regarless if you like him or not. Parental love is unconditional. God does not want anyone of his children in hell. He is a suffering God because of the sad situation of his children. That is the heart of the God I know. He teaches us to forgive and (more...

[LivingResurrectionTV]

cont..to love even our enemies. He teaches us to give and forget as well as to live for the sake of other. He tells us not to call other "ignorant fool". You are misreading the bible. You should not confuse the story of fallen humanity and think it is God. Until Jesus came God did not have even one true son who could channel his voice. He is so much misunderstood as this video sadly shows.

[TomFynn]

@LivingResurrectionTV Forgive your enemies if you want. I for one want to see all Al-Qaeda and their ilk go the way of their leader: Shot in the face by Navy SEALS and dumped in the sea to rot.

[logsdonj]

@LivingResurrectionTV I can find passages in the bible that tell people how to treat their slaves. It doesn't say set them free.

Can you find a passage that specifically condemns slavery?

[LivingResurrectionTV]

@logsdonj Christianity abolished Slavery in England and in the USA based on Christian values. When studying religions, you need to look at the total picture: political, cultural, religious,historical and sort out what is what ? You also need to look how evil keeps transforming itself into new form of slavery.

There is a war within each one of us between our mind and body. We are all slaves to sin and want to be set free. That is also the message in the Bible which condemns sin in all its forms

[logsdonj]

@LivingResurrectionTV You're totally missing the point. Yes, Christians abolished slavery, but they did it DESPITE the bible, not because of the bible. The bible never rebukes slavery. It, in fact, gives instructions about how to carry slavery out.

[logsdonj]

@LivingResurrectionTV I won't argue with you that Christians have done many great things. But they did it because they're good humans. The Christian part is just coincidental.

[RawSwedishMeatball]

@logsdonj Yes, but this arguement wont work with them. They merely describe it as; the bible tells us so, and therefore they did it. Ive had this comment before and I always find them cherrypicking when I point out infacide and how to treat your slaves parts of the bible. The arguement you hold is perfect, and I agree, its a shame religious people wont understand this and just repent their evil religious ways ;P

[logsdonj]

@logsdonj Southerns pre-Civil War and during the Civil War used the same bible to promote slavery. This is exactly the point Sam Harris is trying to make. If the bible is truly the word of an omnipotent being, shouldn't it be a little more clear?

[LivingResurrectionTV]

God does not support slavery. Jesus said to love even your enemies and tp live for the sake of other. The speaker in this video totally misunderstand and misrepresent the bible. He attribute what fallen men did throughout fallen history even today as being from God. He has no clue and did not read the bible with understanding or the parts he wanted to support his agenda.

[MusicStudyMan]

@LivingResurrectionTV Jesus spoke only against sin as a moral slavery, but not sin as a social insitution.practice. None of the new testament writers were against it either. I think you need to go read the whole bible, not just edited highlights fed to your by your paster/priest/kiddyfiddler or who ever it is that takes your services/worship time/sacrifice rituals etc... Next you'll be saying that the New Testament doesn't advocate the dminished role of the woman in comparison to that of a man

[LivingResurrectionTV]

@MusicStudy Man and woman are created equal and complemetary. Due to the human fall, women have been especially burden. If Jesus could have marry, women would have been liberated over 2000 years ago.

Unfortunatly Jesus life was cut short . The Bible has to be understood within the context of restoration. Without the Human Fall there was no need of religion. As long as you approach religion to mock it and ridicule it, you will miss the whole message and context

[winterstellar]

Burn it, that would improve it! Hehe!: ) >Anything would improve it, cause a bigger collection of utter bullshit does not exist: )

[oddcatalyst]

I could swear I see Zimbardo from the Stanford experiment sitting behind him. Goatee guy.

[ReThinkingTheism]

FYI @0:26

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[MrBeautifulba1]

Why are the speakers here wearing those stupid giant id badges around their necks ??

[overether]

Byron10301 sounds like religion.

[Ringwaul]

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[libomann]

@TheComedian851 - Agreed! Now, correction: That's Doctor Harris. :)

[sids500]

The bible is just a bunch of fairy stories, mostly taken from previous religions, from many authors over hundreds of years, from stories handed down verbally for many many years without being written down. What the chance any of it is true? Slim, to say the least. Ever played "chinese whispers"?

[Neall07]

0:25 i thought some fucker was trying to use subliminal messaging on me

[SPR4GOD]

@mjhallfs When most people now day think of alchemy they bring up something about magic and they call it pseudoscientific drivel, I thought you were going for that. I don't really think about alchemy past fantasy books and shows.

[SPR4GOD]

@mjhallfs It is also considered pseudoscientific drivel; the analogy may have been lost in translation. However the ability to say that theology will go the way of alchemy will take foresight, do you have foresight?

[SPR4GOD]

@mjhallfs You keep on railing this alchemy, giving something a childish name doesn't make you more correct. I never said that WLC isn't snide; I was referring to you with your obtuse understanding of Theology. I am actually trying to figure out if you actually say anything of worth, maybe you can surprise me and do so.

[SPR4GOD]

@mjhallfsWell actually in a few days (April 17th iirc) WLC will debate Harris on morality, too bad morality is not a scientific question so it is actually Sam with a Ph.D. in neuroscience debating WLC with a Ph.D. in Philosophy and Theology, so based on education levels it is Harris who is lacking. Also didn't you see the Alchemist debate Krauss (The doctor of physics who thinks logic is false)?

Just using snide remarks does not make your point more correct.

[SPR4GOD]

If Sam Harris goes into a debate against WLC with that belief that "god dictates books" then he is going to get rolled and rolled hard.

[Byron10301]

"Without belief science evaporates" < bullshit - science evaporates in the absence of evidence

"Without belief religion evaporates" < I agree! religion does not need logic, reason, evidence or proof for its extraordinary and illogical claims.

[ccrg109]

@Byron10301 You need to believe something works the way it does before you can prove or disprove it. That was most likely his point.

[SigDrums]

Unlike Hitchens merciless rationality, or Dawkins arrogant (in a good way) skepticism, Sam Harris is the one whom I think the ignorant are most likely to listen to.

[UrukEngineer]

Who the fuck is that bloke running around at that back?

[DieFatorLiveThin]

@UrukEngineer I think he's a camera man.

[Jontish316]

@UrukEngineer Oh, you don't know? That's Greg.

[xaiomanga]

@UrukEngineer is it solid snake? but he looks bald... bald snake?

[stiimuli]

@UrukEngineer he's the guy who quickly grabs the little yellow ball if it hits the net.

[UrukEngineer]

@stiimuli Never mind that bloke - I just love the featured video on your web channel. Hat's off to you Sir, the way you animate independent breast undulation in that avatar is worthy of a Nobel prize.

[stiimuli]

@UrukEngineer why thank you sir =)

[NorthCitySider]

@UrukEngineer

My ass fell off from laughing.

[detahdomo]

@UrukEngineer lmao like hunching down is gonna make him invisible, right. he thinks he's like a ninja, crouching down all sneaky like.

[TheCelticChimp]

@UrukEngineer

He is a really crap ninja who is trying to assassinate Harris.

[1navyseal1962]

Lmfao

[tskasa1]

Wait, wait, WHAT?!?! Since WHEN does science depend on FAITH and BELIEF and NOT empirical evidence and its consistent observations??

[AleximusMaximus]

@tskasa1 he didn't say faith. Listen more carefully. He said belief. As in, what you believe is true. A perfectly reasonable statement, no? In order to know something is true, you must first believe it is true. Knowing is the next step of certainty in belief.

[hejcoze]

@tskasa1 It's called solipsism. The only thing you can be sure about, is that you are. Everything else should be approached as a theory and not as a fact. (We know that matter can't travel FTL, but what if tomorrow someone discovers, that it can.) If you want to be literally true, you can only say that you believe it to be so, otherwise you risk being called a fundamentalist of a same grade as they are.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@hejcoze Many observations are never changing, one of them is matter

never going faster then the speed of light. It is a physical impossibility.

However, that does not automatically mean matter cannot get from point

A to point B in equal or less amount of time when compared to a beam of

light.

It is uttermost important not to get confused on absolutes, when problems

seem to resolve differently then expected.

[silverhawkroman]

@hejcoze Solipsism? That's even worse than the question of existence of a deity. Solipsism goes too far, questioning our reality (we all have one reality, and we have to face it as it is. people may believe in deities and fairies, but in THIS reality the possibility is 0.00000000001% that they exist)

We need to stop hurling illogical questions and focus on fixing our past mistakes and progress humanity.

Philosophy can be handy, but sometimes cumbersome.

[Ryakki]

@hejcoze

A theory is more then a fact, it's a collection of facts. It's the same thing we used to call a law.

And we treat the latest scientific understanding as objective reality. New evidence can change scientific understanding, but until that point, scientifically verified objective reality is reality.

Scientific knowledge is understanding.

[jewnatzi12]

@tskasa1 you believe science is real don't you, you believe science is fact not make believe, u believe in the benefits of science and what it can offer to mankind, therefor you believe. every view a man can have has to have an element of believe or its worthless, please don't get confused with what sam harris was saying that science is a fantasy, like religion.

[silverhawkroman]

@jewnatzi12 We believe because we are convinced. Science is the best belief so far, because it is supported by at least one million pieces of evidence to back up its factual, proven theories (hypothesis btw are not real until proven) We have to face that THIS is our reality. Once you start mixing reality with fiction stories, things can only go worse from then on.

[PhilosophyofNature]

What's with the people running by in the background.

[Murdulo]

@PhilosophyofNature They are collecting the religious asses Harris is kicking.

[purbrookian]

What point did he miss, AOP?Does the OT contain one single observation that has been proved prophetic? It's bronze age myth, regurgitated for a race of illiterates.

[AOPrinciple]

Oh Harris, royally missing the point as usual. I feel significantly dumber after watching this.

[evolutionist101]

@AOPrinciple And you can quickly tell us what "the point" is....right?

What Sam said was solid.

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

You bothered, after 2 months of dead time, to reply and say "nuh-uh"? Okay, then. Yes, he misunderstood the heart of matter entirely. He thinks that we can improve on the Bible scientifically, historically, ethically, and spiritually. First off, the Bible, as diverse a piece of amalgamate literature as it is, was not written for the purpose of making "scientifically" accurate statements about the world. That isn't to say that the factual claims it makes are incorrect...

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

2

, they are correct. But the way that Hebrews in the Old Testament classified bats and birds is utterly irrelevant. It makes no sense to try and improve scientifically a piece of literature that never supposed itself to be (in large part) making scientific statements in the first place. Point out to me a place in which the Bible makes a statement that is factually false in its observation. About history: Harris either doesn't care or is ignorant about the historicity...

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

3

of the Bible. Again, I would simply ask you to point to a Biblical reference that makes a false statement about historical events. Finally, and in a most confused fashion, Harris says that anyone could "in a moment" improve on the Bible ethically and spiritually. Really? How so? Of course, he will say that killing people groups is wrong and that God was wrong to command it. I would reply "You mean, objectively wrong?" If he says no, then it is simply his preference that...

[evolutionist101]

@AOPrinciple Historical events? Lets see... the Exodus....the Tower of Babel....numerous others.

Moral objectivity? How about, if it's not good for Society....it's wrong. Morals develop from a Social Contract based on Social pressures. The "moral" contracts will help a society flourish. Morals can easily exist without a supreme being. Sam's "authority" to make that claim comes from what we can see is beneficial for the advancement of society. Murder, rape, child murder and slavery...are not.

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

4

doesn't and shouldn't mean anything to anybody else. I don't care if he would rather not himself kill someone else. If he says "Yes, objectively wrong," then he has to provide a foundation for his claim knowing moral objectivity. He doesn't have one. Atheists CANNOT be anything other than moral relativists, and some atheists have recognized that. Who says it is objectively wrong to kill? Sam Harris has no authority to make that claim. God, as the Creator, did and does.

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

5

As Creator, it is also God's prerogative to take life even as He gives it. I will ask you, evolutionist101, how can you tell God that it is wrong for Him to take life? How can you, as an atheist (which I am assuming you are) say that anything is objectively wrong? You have no standard of objective goodness to stand on and by which to identify any objective evil. Don't get me wrong, you think that there are objective morals precisely because you, as an individual, are...

[evolutionist101]

@AOPrinciple As for having a Creator. You assert there is one to begin with. So I cannot go along with..."if god says it's OK...then it's moral".

Question: Is something moral because God said it was moral? Or does god tell you to do something, because it was already moral?

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

You present me with a false dilemma. What is moral flows from God's character. We abstract moral principles from the character and mind of God and know that it is so because God tells us. So the best answer to your question would be that a thing is moral because God says it. To qualify the answer, God says that something is moral because He Himself is who He is.

I hope you realize that what you presented me with wasn't a case for objective morality; it was a case for...

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

2

subjective, socially conditioned morality, which isn't morality by the definition of the term. You can't abstract principles of "ought" by pointing to what "is". So the social machine doesn't run as smoothly when people kill each other. So what? That means that people SHOULD not kill? There is no logic to be found in that progression. You have to supply the intermediate premise "it is good for society to run smoothly". Defending that premise returns us to the question of...

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

3

what makes "good" good in the first place. The socially defined conditions of Nazi Germany were that it was good to kill Jews. Does that mean it is good for everyone to kills Jews, just good for Nazis to kill Jews, or could it still be true that it is not good for anyone to kill Jews? It remains that you have no transcendent, ubiquitously binding standard under which to subject everyone. Your position boils down to relativism and that is simply the way it is, though..

[evolutionist101]

@AOPrinciple For Nazi's, it was Moral for them to do what they were doing.....but the WORLD SOCIETY thought it was wrong. Therefore, no more Nazi's are killing Jews. If it is bad for Society, it either kills itself or slowly weeds itself out. Morals evolve...bottomline.

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

When it comes to Nazi morality all you've done is substitute a larger community (composed to finite individuals) for a larger one(...composed to finite individuals). I'm just going to ask you how you would define morality. Define your view of moral principle. What do you mean when you say that the claim of the tower of Babel needs evidence. Are you saying that the Bible, to make the claim to begin with, needs to cite independent attestation and documentation of the event?

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

4

you can explain it again if you want. And about the facts of history: can you say that there was no tower of Babel and no Exodus? Can you cite any documentation that demonstrates these claims are false? The fact that certain historical claims of the Bible have yet to be substantiated to your satisfaction in no way warrants your dismissal. It used to be that people thought biblical references to Hittites were fake, now the HIttite culture is one of the best known of the...

[evolutionist101]

@AOPrinciple As for the Tower of Babel...the positive claim needs evidence. The claims of the Supernatural require the evidence...I do not believe in magic. I've seen no evidence to change my mind.

Seeing that Evolution absolutely happened and it tells quite a different story than Genesis....there's not much reason to believe anything else the Bible says.

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

2

What kind of historical standard is that? Are you really maintaining on that basis that the tower of Babel is a fabrication? That is ridiculous.

Your comment about needing evidence to support miraculous claims is misleading. What kind of physical, material evidence could I possible show you to support a miracle claim when your worldview precludes the possibility of miracles? Any historical evidence is ruled out from the start because you're a naturalist. What do you expect?

[BalthazzarCH]

@AOPrinciple the tower of Babel was supposedly built by men not by a miracle.. maybe you should read the book you're triing to defend before you do so.

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

3

By the way, I'm not responding to any more posts on this video. If you want to continue the discussion, send me a message.

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

5

ancient world; you can study the language at Harvard. It is utterly naive to think that because we can't prove (whatever that means in a historical context) that the Exodus occurred in an air-tight a manner as the event of Pearl Harbor doesn't mean it didn't happen. Please, I would like to have a longer discussion, but it would be better done via messages instead of posts. I would like you to think about your case for morality. It isn't objective, so it isn't morality at all.

[AOPrinciple]

@evolutionist101

6

created in the image of God and therefore know that there is objective evil opposed to objective good. As an atheist, though, neither do you have an adequate explanation for that, nor can you claim that you could improve on God's revelation. Neither does Harris. I would love to hear, from him, in detail, how he thinks that he could improve on the Bible ethically or spiritually. That was longer than I thought it might be. If you want to talk more just send me a message.

[caltrop69]

Grrr...Leibniz invented the Calculus.

Newton snorted mercury.

[isaachaze1]

the point remains valid nonetheless :)

[caltrop69]

@isaachaze1

Bah! Only if you snort quicksilver!

Ummm...What was the point, again?

[isaachaze1]

@caltrop69 i think the point was the SOMEONE can go develop something as perfect as calculus and no one claims it must have been divinely inspired, whereas they do claim that about the bible, which is full of flaws. and who doesnt snort quicksilver??

[caltrop69]

@isaachaze1

I'm just a little peeved at the respect that Newton gets, when most objective accounts have him acting as a spoiled infant, intent on destroying other people's lives.

[isaachaze1]

@caltrop69 understandable. i might be a tad biased because of my name :). now if you start dissin' asimov, i'll just have to go off!

[caltrop69]

@isaachaze1

Asimov rocks! No dissin' of either him or Heinlein from this direction.

[thesparitan]

@caltrop69 LOL .

[controllerbrain]

Haha God doesn't code software! what a shit God....

[VesusSheist]

If only everyone were as rational as Sam Harris.

Discarding religion as a society would be a beautiful, unprecedented accomplishment.

[superfisto]

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[Ilikejpgs]

Sam Harris pretty much pwned it all.

[GibbonStreet]

Gotta love Mr. Harris. So elequently spoken.

[216trixie]

WTF?...I'm watching the entire debate...The whole time, there are stage hands running back and forth, back and forth, the whole freaking time...And the moderator introduces them in Spanish?

[tisthefire]

@216trixie Where did you find the entire debate? I'd love to see it.

[216trixie]

youtube search....sam harris christopher hitchens....it's the ninth video down the page.

[SoullessAtheist]

Truly brilliant.  I do wish the audio was better on this video though.

[isaachaze1]

the first thing to go when you lose your soul is your hearing...

[crusan4tw]

brilliant, just f'ing brilliant.