@ukgreaterlondon Correction: God is a sexy young man named Apollo who deems tolerance and wills that all party and paint and have nude beach parties!! :-D
According to my decipherment the Phaistos Disc was a Greek poem: 16 dactylic hexameters - a Greek dialect of the 17th century BC. It was a ritual song (hymn): 96 music bars in 288 notes.
It is too bad, that "some people's" strong; yet wayward convictions towards aspects of social needs for "justice" are not even broadly encourage. But at times, are even laugh at. By the mass of populations; that the speaker is trying to help or even foolishly attempt's to save.
Ihr müßt euch entscheiden und zu dem stehen was ihr vertreten wollt !!!!!!Was seit Ihr Griechen (Hellenen) ? Wieviele Griechische Könige könnt Ihr vorweisen die Griechen waren?Die MAKEDONIER können das vorweisen, und das steht überall auf der Welt. Der Fehler den die Griechen machen ist folgender, ihr müßt euch entscheiden was Ihr nun sein wollt.Entweder seit IHr Griechen oder Makedonier.
@ArkoudoROMANTIC No, the Aeolians originally came from Thessaly in northern Greece, and when the Dorian attacked in about 2000BC they fled to Lesbos and the west coast of Turkey (Smyrna, Pergamon,...).
In Arcadia they spoke a different language, now called "arcado-cypriotic".
This asides, users "etherodromos" and "MalaresianLuciferia" are still wrong to say that Latin is the same as Aeolian.
@fluffytom82 maybe I did not explain it clearly before. Yes they did live in Thessaly , and yes they fled to Lesbos due to the Dorian attack. But the archaic center of the Aeolian tribe was Arcadia, from Arcadia some settled in Thessaly ,and from there to Lesbos, also they settled in the islands between Sicily, and Southern Italy the islands that still to this day call Aeolian islands consisting of Lipari , and other islands.
@fluffytom82 I never said that Aeolian is similar to Latin. The Aeolian tribe is Pelasgian Greek, as the other Pelasgian Greek tribes. There are similarities with the Cypriot Greek dialect for a good reason. That is due to the settlement of Greek tribes from Peloponisos to the island of Cyprus in 1000 B.C. and centuries thereafter. More specific the Achaean Greeks from Argolida settled in Lemesos, larnaka, Lefkosia, and other towns, the Aeolians from Tegea Arcadia settled in Pafos, or I should-
@soNofLeoniDasandLas continuing.... Aeolian Greeks from Tegea, Arcadia founded the city of Pafos, Achaeans from Lakwnia settled in Morfou, and Lapithos. This is the reason why the Cypriot Greek dialect is related to the Arcadian, and Achaean dialects of Peloponisos.
@soNofLeoniDasandLas I never said that you said it. "etherodromos" and "MalaresianLuciferia" said that. And I just disagreed.
The origin of Aeolians has nothing to do with the discussion though. My only comment (to them, not to you) was that Aeolian and Latin are not the same.
Όταν οι Έλληνες κατάλαβαν πως πιστεύουν σε κάτι λάθος άλλαξαν θρησκεία. Και ειλικρινά δεν είναι τόσο εύκολο να αλλάξει ολόκληρος λαός τη θρησκεία του! Ιδίως οι Έλληνες. Επειδή πίστευαν σε κάτι ψεύτικο ενώ ο Χριστός είναι αλήθεια!!! Άλλωστε Βυζάντιο είναι Ελλάδα, που έχει αφήσει πίσω του πολύ μεγάλο πολιτισμό και ζει μέχρι και σήμερα (:
Φίλτατοι συμπατριώτες αναρωτιέμαι ,μήπως πρέπει να επιστρέψουμε στα παλιά καλά ελληνικά ιδεώδη και στον παλιό καλό ελληνικό πολιτισμό?Κάτι δεν μου πάει καλά στο εβραικό παραμύθι που μας πουλούν...
My question is do we know the music scale used by the ancient Greeks and Romans?
Also, just as modern music varies depending on interpretation of the artist - I wonder how close these recordings are to what the anc. Greeks performed. To bad we don't have recordings.
@macpduff several greek music scripts have been saved till today.tthe oldest complete piece of music ever found is greek and called the song of seikilos
@macpduff We know a lot about Ancient Greek music theory, there's lots of sources, both direct and indirect. The indirect sources are for example Aristoteles and Plato, who writes about music (without really explaining any technical stuff). A direct source is Aristoxenus, who wrote a book about music called "Sectio Canonis". Later sources about Greek music are Plutarchus, Nicomachus, Cleonides, Ptolemeus,...
The scales are the same as the medieval modal scales, but named differently.
sfentona, καμία σχέση όμως εντελώς. Οι μόνοι που το πιστεύουν αυτό που λες είναι οι ορθόδοξοι παπάδες που έκαναν τα πάντα για να χαθεί ο Ελληνισμός γιατί το ελεύθερο αρχαίο Ελληνικό πνεύμα έμπενε εμπόδιο στα σχέδιά τους για απόλυτη εξουσία, δύναμη και χρήμα. Απόδειξη το φιλμάκι του μουσείου της Ακρόπολης κτλ. κτλ. Τώρα αν είσαι φανατίλα Χρηστιανός και τα μυαλά στα κάγκελα άστο. Η προπαγάνδα της εκκλησίας δεν περνάει πια!!
file mou den 3ero pos to fantazesai oti egine alla otan alla3e siga siga h 8rhskia, den alla3e ap to simera sto aurio i mousiki. i byzantini mousiki einai stin ousia i arxaia elliniki mousi! opos kai i agiografia einai i zografiki tis arxaias elladas. merxi kai ta e8ima minan ta idia. aplos ola auta e3elix8ikan fusiologika me tin parodo tou xronou kai alla3an ta onomata. gia ka8e 8eotita mpike enas agios ktl... ola einai ena nima sunexomeno. den epese apto feggari h buzantini mousiki.
@manmamz ..Πράγματι είναι αλήθεια, ότι η βυζαντινή μουσική σχετίζεται άμεσα με την αρχαία Ελληνική μουσική. Η διαφοροποίηση έγινε μετά την παρέμβαση του Ιωάννη Δαμασκηνού. Αλλά και πάλι διατηρήθηκαν τα χαρακτηριστικά της στοιχεία.
@manmamz Mathe ligi istoria gia na min les koutamares. To byzantio epireastike polu apo thn arxea Elliniki erminefzi. Opos kai epireastike kai h Romi , h Opera paradigma eine me rizes sthn arxea Ellada pou antigrapsan oi Romeoi , kai sunexa mexri shmera se pangosmia klumaka.
Can we please stop taling about race and physical appearance? Those things are irrelevant-almost-as to who we are. We share a common culture, one that is essentially Graeco-roman-christian, and this is what unites us into what we can call Western civilization.
Byzantine music does not pretend to "copy" anything, it stands in direct continuity with its past and was fully alive in its own time as music is alive today. Music is alive, not a theory of what it should be or should not be.
Byzantine Music is injected by Anatolic (Eastern) elements. Elements which make it sound like crying, begging fate etc. This is not compatible with the Hellenic (Greek) Spirit of Freedom and Stellar Light.
Yes the Egyptians had wizdom. Greeks and Egyptians got along so well. The two biggest Empires of the Ancient world, so close geographically, and they never were in the War Path. So what do you want to say? That Plato admired their wizdom and thus there is no "pure" Greek wizdom or what?
Every time you pronounce a higher idea or a scientific term, in English or in your own language, you speak Greek.
While this is true in English (although there is also a fair amount of Latin thrown in), this is not necessarily true if "your own language" is not English.
Yes, English is half-Greek, half-Latin, and what is left derives from northern anglo-saxon elements. But our point is: Latin is the Ancient Greek AEOLIC dialect. Give me right here 20 Latin words of your choice and I will prove to you what percentage is Greek.
"your own language" in his case was French, ie a Latin Dialect, ie Greek-originating.
I'm sorry, I misunderstood, I thought that "your own language" was meant to mean "one's own language," rather that a particular individual's native language. Tha's my bad.
@etherodromos LOL, Latin and Aeolic have no relation whatsoever... Aeolic is an ancestor of classical Greek, you could call it "archaic Greek", and was spoken in Aeolia, the eastern greek isles and the coast of what is now Turkey. Latin is an italic language, with the same roots as Oscan or Umbrian.
The only thing Latin and Greek have in common is the alphabet, which they took over from the Greeks via the Etruscans.
@MalaresianLuciferia I am not talking about races or ethnics, I am talking about the origin of a language. Languages did evolve separately in different parts of the world. "etherodromos" says that Latin and Aeolian are the same language. That is 100% untrue. NOBODY said anything about different races.
If you can't read comments before insulting people, maybe you are the "fucking retard" who "can't think critically" and is "no longer intelligent".
@fluffytom82 shut up you ethnocentric pile of shit.Obviously you can't do math and understand we came from singular race and evolved retard... you see we stem from one root, one solar system, one cosmic big fucking bang..like being born of ice is better than being born of sun...and moving from culture to the next creates diversity as it is. Learn to think critically you fucking retards...go to criticalthinkingorg
People are so driven by propaganda that they are no longer intelligent.
@MalaresianLuciferia This is not exactly true. many species of hominid were on the earth and the same time frame. euro people may have DNA from neanderthal and many in china feel they are hybrids of homo erectus.
@MalaresianLuciferia lol, I didn't see your nice post before. Always fun to be insulted for something I never said.
Nobody, NOBODY, certainly not me, said anything about race, about evolution, about creation etc. We are speaking about a language. Something man has created to communicate.
Obviously, your language skills aren't developed yet, since you don't seem to be able to read and understand other people's posts. Maybe you are a 6 year old?
So therefore Homer is not GRek because he may have borrowed from Eastern poetry, and the Ionian philosophers are not Greek because they borrowed from Babylonian and Persian mathematics and astronomy? And Plato wasn't Greek because he admired the wisdom of the Egyptians? Then I am wondering who is 'purely' Greek....
1. Homer did not borrow anything from the Eastern Poets. Which Eastern poets and which scripts of them? Prove your "points".
2. The Ionian (pre-Socratic) philosopher did not borrow anything from Persian and Babylonian maths and astronomy. If you want to enforce your argument, give us ONE persian or babylonian astronomer or mathematician, or ONE RESPECTIVE SCRIPT.
You speak Greek because these meanings can be conceived by ONLY the Hellenic way of thinking.
All Europe (and not only) speaks languages fertilized by the Hellenic: Ancient Greek Aeolian dialect was simplified and a little altered and became Latin. From Latin came all the European languages. Only the Nordic have less Greek seed in them (but they still have). Give me 20 English words that you want or 20 words of your language and I will prove to you how many are Greek and why.
Oh! I know this game! It's in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" :p
I must point out, however, that not all European languages come from Latin or Greek---some are not even Indo-European at all. The Celtic languages, the Slavic languages, the Germanic languages, none of these derive from Latin or Greek, although they are related. Basque, Hungarian, Finnish, and Maltese are not even related to Greek or Italian. We must keep in mind that loan-words do not imply descent or even relation.
Not true if your language is not English? I don't think so: Italian, French, Spanish, Portugese, English have Latin roots, ie derive from Greek.
Germanic and Nordic are pretty different, but not SO different (ie NYX-Greek, NOX-Latin, NACHT-German etc etc). Slavic have the Cyrillic origin, but I have noted many Slavic words of Latin root and Slavic suffix.
Basque, Hungarian, Finnish, etc are totally different because they derive from Mongol-Hun ancestry.
Greek and latin have different origins, besides these two language being part of indo-european family they belogn to different subfamilies, being it hellenic an italic.
Regarding the Indo-European "theory": We need ONE sign of the Indo-European civilization in order to believe in its existence. ONE village, ONE script, ONE vessel, ONE tomb, ONE sign of their infamous language, ONE BONE, something.
There is no Indo-European civilization, there is an Indo-European language family, whose members all derive from a hypothetical single progenitor; so even if we found any artifacts or relics of a civilization whose people spoke this progenitor language, it would not be the "Indo-European civilization" because there is no such thing.
Secondly: Aeolians and Dorians migrated from Greece to south Italy in the deep past, and this is when the Latin language begins: It is firstly Aeolian, secondly Dorian and thirdly new autonomous elements, that made it a new language. The Latin alphabet (and consequently the English one), is the CHALKIDEAN - KYMAEAN alphabet (Aeolian dialect), from Euboea, Greece if you know: A,B,C,D, et cetera. ET = and in Latin, and in Ancient Greek: TE.
All indo-europeian languages have a common sources but this doesn't mean that they evolved from each other, they developed separatadly. Or you also believe that because of similarities a distant language such as sanskrit also derivated from greek. I agree with "shautora" this is the My big fat greek wedding's game!!!
This theory is widely accepted today by most linguists. But you seems to be confusing the questions of influence over origin. See the case of Korean. Korea is probably a isolated language or a member of ural-altaic languages. Korean has 60% of its vocabulary derivated from Chinese. But chinese is a sino-tibetan language. China has been for milleniun the main source of cultural influence in east-asia, and this include korea, The same goes to the relationship Rome Greece.
Latin developed in central italy, the Latium(Lazio), and not in Magna Graecia. Latins together with Etruscans had TOTAL admiration with ancient greek culture, and this is not surprising.Ancient Greece was to romans and etruscasn as China was to Korea. They adopted part of the culture, costums and even religion!!!! But their language and identity remained unchanged.
Since their language does not derive from Greek, give me right here a list of Latin words of your choice, and I will prove to you how many derive from Greek and HOW.
See, i'm not contesting the greek influence over latin, I known that many latin words derivated from greek. But these are influences, borrowed words, Ioan-words. I was trying to explane using the korean-chinese exemple, but you seem to don't understand.
It is not just loan. It is the Aeolian dialect, and the Aeolian Alphabet. If it is just loans as you say, then we're talking about an 80% "loaned" language. 80% Greek vocabulary PLUS: EXACTLY the same syntax, declinations, infinitives, participles is not just an "influence"..
Latin does not have the same same syntaxes as Greek, nor participles, and nowhere near the same infinitives. From knowing Latin, there's no way you would be able to recognize a Greek infinitive, and the converse also true. As for syntax, Latin has an entire case more than Greek, something retained in a few other Indo-European languages, such as Sanskrit, but something lost in Greek before writing, as far as I'm aware.
The latin syntax is totally similar to the greek one. It HAS participles and is full of infinitives. You say there are no participles: You're wrong: ALEA JACTA EST: Jacta: participle. It has also the Gerund added, something not existent in ancient greek, but it banished some greek forms, like the 3-number case (Singular, Binar, Plural -while in all the other languages of the world we have only singular and plural)
I need to clarify myself. Of course Latin had participles, this is obvious, however they do not function entirely similarly to Greek; there are similarities to be sure, but not the similarities that imply a filial relationship.
2) Latin comes from Greek, very similar vocabulary and Syntax, Romans and Greeks very close brother nations, similar in everything, Rome is the continuator and the child of Greece, even nowadays the Italians have a saying when referring to their neighbour, Greeks: UNA FAZZA UNA RAZZA meaning ONE FACE ONE RACE.
Because they are similar does not imply that Latin comes from Greek. If such similarities imply that one must derive from the other, how then would you refute the statement that Greek must therefore derive from Latin?
Firstly---are you implying that Saturn the father of the Gods...was a satyr?? As it is, current speculation is that Saturn derives from the word "satis," meaning "enough," "sufficience," as many of his rites and festivals were closely linked with the harvest and bounty.
As for "nephos" --> "nimbus" linguistically it sounds more like it should be the other way around, since it would be much more likely for the Greeks to lose an m than for the Latins to gain one.
Satyr: When a word "travels" through the languages, it does not necessarily maintain the same meaning, but it maintains the root. That's why I mentioned Saturn - Satyr. Or you claim that these 2 roots are irrelevant?
Nimbus - Nephos: NEPHOS is a word used at least on 200 bc by Homer, while Nimbus came much later. So there is no way that Nephos comes from Nimbus, but it is the other way. And the "m" can be either added or subtracted, you're just making speculations.
As for the letter m, I am speculating nothing, I am simply stating that IF we consider a filial relationship between the two, the chances that nephos is derived from nimbus would be much higher than the other way around. In my linguistic experience, it the deletion of a nasal before a plosive is exceedingly more common than its insertion, however I would need to confirm this with linguistic literature before stating it concretely.
You say Nimbus deriving Nephos has less possibilities than the other way huh?
80% of the Latin words derive from Greek, and no Greek from Latin, so how can this have a largest possibility? They just added an M, as they added many things, but the roots are Hellenic.
I have told you rpepeaedly, give me 20 or 50 or whatever random Latin words of your choice, and I will prove to you right here a percentage. And this "figures" can be easily obtained by a plain dictionary: If you know Greek and Latin, you pull the conclusions at once.
@etherodromos I think you have a problem with your keyboard... You type 2000BC for Homeros, while it should have been 800BC. Now you type 80% of the Latin words come from Greek while it should be maybe 8% (and even that is too much).
You should buy another keyboard, the one you have clearly doesn't write numbers very well ;)
Also, the phenomenon you are describing, is what are known as "cognates," these are all derived from the same parent language, one does not come from the other.
3) Semets anthropologically are a branch of the wide Asian family of the Turanian Mongols - Hans, and their genarch (the one who "started" their race) is Abra-Han or Abraam. In the wide turanian family, except the Mongols themselves, belong the Turks (Turuks), the Tatars, the Huns of Hungary, the Semets, the Bayars-Bavars or Avars, and many others.
Again, where does this information come from? I have never heard of the "Turanian Mongols," nor the "Asian family" thereof. I can tell you that the Turkic peoples, while related to the Mongolians, are not Mongolic, and vice versa.
All of them are of Mongolic descendance, ie mixture (raping actually) of Mongols with White populations (as the Mongolic hordes were moving Westwards and Westwards). The Semets are a mixture of Mongols and Arabs (that's how this curved hawk-shaped nose is so common to the Semets). SO Turks and the rest are of Mongolic origin.
Turkish people are of mainly native anatolian origin, as confirmated by researches. Turkic influence is more linguistic and cultural than genetic. Go to wikipedia, type "turkish people" and then "Ethnogenesis and genetic links".
"Turkish and Kurdish HLA profiles are studied for the first time. The comparative study of their allele frequencies, characteristic haplotypes, genetic distances with other Mediterraneans is complemented by neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. Turks, Kurds, Armenians, Iranians, Jews, Lebanese and other (Eastern and Western) Mediterranean groups seem to share a common ancestry: the older "Mediterranean" substratum." Universidad Complutense
Get the fuck out of my face punkster, you Italians owe your cilture to us and everybody knows it. In WW2 we, poor and armed with stones and knives, demolished your super-armed army of airplanes and tanks. You performed a crescento of cowardness when you fought with us that is unmatched in European history.
Again name your sources of which Eastern poets, astronomers, mathematicians or whoever, the Greeks borrowed from. Give me ONE name or ONE script. Otherwise you are either ignorant or liar.
Your dismissing byzantine music simply because it has 'eastern' rythms in it is, since it is the cause of the argument, simply foolish. Greek culture has undergone influences as others have been influenced by the Greeks, and there is no shame in that. If the GReeks as a people decide to borrow a foreign invention, or use a foreign knowledge and then develop it and expand upon it, and to make these their own, what wrong is there in this?
If you like, you may just as well stop using the alphabet, since it is orignially an eastern, phoenician--a semitic people--invention, and go back to Linear B, which is even itself based upon the Minoan script, a non-Greek people. There is no shame in borrowing from others, it is not about making one or the other 'superior' and the other 'inferior,'; it is just historical reality. What makes a people great is how they develop their mind and knowledge, not how they discover it.
1. Minoans were Greeks. Cretans. They spoke Greek, wrote Greek, worshiped Greek Gods.
2. The Alphabet is not semetic. It is Greek. Since you support it is semetic, give me ONE semetic script, writing, vessel, anything, any proof, of semetic text with this alphabet.
Linears A and B were Greek and moreover they gave the Greek alphabet, as every "sign" made one syllable of 2 or 3 letters.
Minoans were NOT Greeks--the Mycenaeans were. Both influenced each other very heavily culturally. If the Minoans were indeed Greeks, then why can't we decipher and read Linear A, as we can Linear B? This and your other claims are ridiculous and, honestly, completely unworthy of someone who pretends to teach others to 'argue." If you want your evidence, look for it in scholarly archaeological studies, if you are even willing to do so--unless of course you fear they disagree with you.
It is a well-known and accepted fact that the Greek script is a form of the Phoenician alphabet adapted by the Greeks for use with their own language. You can find this anywhere. Even the names of the letters are taken directly from Phoenician.
Again you don't reply to my comment: I said that we have Greek-Phoenicians and Semetic-Phoenicians. The Alphabet comes from the Greek-Phoenicians: By KADMOS, Greek-Phoenician. PHOENIX itself is a Greek word, meaning RED. The alphabet comes from Greeks (Pelasgian origin) and not by semetes (Mongolic origin)
Very well then, I clarify that it is a well-known and accepted fact that the Greek script is a form of the Phoenician alphabet derived for use with the Semitic Phoenician language, whence the Semitic names of the letters, which, as it happens are retained in Greek.
And Semites are most certainly not in any way Mongolic.
OK then, tell me what makes the Indo-European case so strong, since we don't have signs of such a civilization. There was only a Indo-European language family, ok give me some proofs of its existence.
1) The Greek Alphabet is GREEK and not semetic, founded by the Greek-Phoenician (and not Semetic-Phoenician) KADMOS, king of Thebes. Even Phoenix is a Greek name meaning RED, common in the Ancient Greek scripts. The semets didn't even have vowels, didn't even have a strong language. Do you doubt that?
"Didn't have a strong language"? What does that even mean? If you look at the continuum of the alphabet, it is obvious that the Greek alphabet is derived from its Semitic Phoenician predecessor--even the names of the letters are Semitic. However, while I have made sure to confirm with some source everything I have said before I have said it, and throughout this discussion you obviously haven't even bothered to look at the alphabet, you plainly do not merit any more of my time or wasted breath
I have asked you a dozen questions and you don't answer in anything.
I know the semitic alphabet and language, mate. It has no vowels and it is primitive, like the semetes who had a primitive civilization and were mainly shepperds. The Hellenic language is much older than the semitic. The Orphic Hymns speak about a stellar phenomenon that happens every 20000 years and it happened on 9600 BC and they speak about it like "a millennium ago".
We have the Hellenic civilization and its shining glory, and the Semetic civilization which has only dark things to show, and no science: Name ONE semetic mathematician, astronomer, philosopher or whatever. Only shepherds and mother-fuckers (literally). So any academic who "speculates" that the semetic civilization is older than the Hellenic, and the Hellenic derives thence, is either unworthy or "suspect" [...]
You never heard about the Islamic Golden age? About Geber (Jabir ibn Hayyan), Avicena, Ali al-qasadi, Abu al-qasim..... You live in world of absurd dreams! Creation your OWN truths.
No I have never heard about the Geber ibn dick-sucker that you mentioned, and few have heard of him, because his contribution to civilization was neglegible.
And the Turks are mainly Mongols, their huge cheek-bones and almond-shaped eyes speak for themselves.
Yes, you are true, algebrics, algorithms(that you own computer system is based)y, indo-arabic system, "the canon of medicine", modern surgery and anesthesia, have really no value for civilization. You may think what you want!!! I dont care, You are rude and unaducated, Discussing with you is a totall waste of TIME!
P.S.: Your ethnocentrism will lead you no nothing!
If by "semetic" you mean SEMITIC, then i'm not wrong. Arabic people in general are considerated semitic in language and culture, but when it comes to genetics this may vary. Also regarding turkish people you really think that few invaders replaced a whole population of 12 millions of greek speaking byzantiines, I sent you a message from a study carried by two universities talking about their genetics.
@niettevragen The idiot here is you. I'm JOKING. I was being ironic!!! "Turkish are mongols so like greeks are ethiopians." Because for me, these two statements are ABSURD!
And before that it was ruled by the Hittite Empire. There is hardly any nation today whose root people originate in the region. Even the Greeks in Greece probably migrated there (Mycenaeans were Indo-European migrants from what we can tell). However, I agree the Turks need to realize that they indeed came from the Steppes of Asia and be less prideful.
The inhabitants of Crete were Minoan, not Mycenaean. Those originally in the Cyclades were not Mycenaean either. These so-called Helladic civilizations predate Mycenaean civilization. Interestingly, the Mycenaean language is Indo-European whereas the others (Minoan) are not. For these reasons Mycenaeans are seen as an Indo-European people that arrived in the area in the Bronze Age. Also, 5000 B.C. is about 1500 years before the Cycladic civ..., so that is definitely too early.
What? Other people have made paintings besides the Mycenaeans. It just means the pre-Mycenaean inhabitants of Greece painted them. If you mean these paintings are from the Cyclades but around 5000 B.C., then it predates the civilization and thus should not be characterized as a part of it.
Huh? Do you mean a PAN-Aryan? Also, I believe there is some truth to it, yes (as archaeology and legends support). For example Divas, Tiwaz, Tyr, and Zeus supposedly have a link across these Indo-European cultures. Presumably Zeus's father Chronos was the earlier Greek pantheon leader, hence the story of his displacement. Similar to how the Germanic Aesir more or less supplanted the Vanir. Anyway, this is from reading numerous books, not because of personal racist beliefs.
@etherodromos yeah please say "Ancient Greece " or "Hellenic City-states" because the Greeks from nowadays don't have anything in common with modern Greeks..
@BlizzardRoach I am from Sparta Greece , and we keep our culture, and our heritage in our heart for thousands of years,if someone insult us he will find out who we are. Do not come to conclusions looking at what is happening today in Greece. Greek people know well what is going on , and through this chaotic situation something will change, but as I said for many of us there is that bright light in our heart, and soul that never extinguished- and never will- in thousands of years.
@soNofLeoniDasandLas Do you follow Christianity or keep it traditional? I'm from Persia but I don't know much about my ancient heritage. All I know is Persians and Greeks were ancient enemies but we are good friends now and should remember out ancestors.
There was a time indeed when Greece was home to the most brilliant scholars on this part of the planet. Hard to imagine these days, especially against some of the mental sewerage found on this page.
Just for the record ulverup, I am blonde, white as milk, and have green eyes, since you brought up my appearance. Yes there has been mixing, all over the world and not only in Mediterranean, but that doesn't mean there is no Greek gene alive nowadays.
Speaking about darkness, do you consider you Italians less dark than us?
no but you as a greek , you are a mix of middle eastern and north africans and europeans
you only have 40 % european blood ,and yes , greeks in general are darker than italians , the only dark people in italy are from calabria and sicily ( you know the story )
but semitic blood is found everywhere in greece , sorry but 29 % is too much to be ignored
Did you really think that I said the contrary? --I never even mentioned it once, but of course, you ASSUMED that I said they were not. Why then even attempt discussion with you? I am not concerned with assumption and theories.
I have studied the scholarly archaeology books. Have you? I don't think so, because what you say (probably you read it somewhere in there) is one of many disagreeing points.
ΜΙΝΩΣ (MINOS), meaning "resistant" in Greek, is whence "Minoan" derives. Minos was the king of Minoic Crete.
Minoans were Hellanians (Greeks), member of the great Mediterranean Pelasgian family. The fact that we haven't fully decoded Linear A (yet), is a proof that Minoans were not Greeks?
Note that Minos is not an historically attested character (not Pericles, Leonidas, Croesus, etc.). We do not know if there was a king like him, less so that he was indeed called Minos. The origins of the historical Minoans people are obscure, but they were not Greek in culture. The method that Ventris used to decipher Linear B failed when applied to Linear A. If Linear A wrote Greek, and Linear B used a similar script, then how can we not read Linear A?
1. If Minos was real or mythological, is not our issue here. Our issue is the name "MINOS", MINOAN etc: The name is Greek.
2. Minoans were not Greek in culture?? They worshipped Greek Gods (Rhea, Erebos etc), spoke Greek to Theseus (King of Athens) when he got there, or was he not Greek either? Minos was the son of ZEUS and EUROPA. Even if that is mythology, it is a proof that the Minoans were Greeks. Knossos is a Greek name. If they were not Greeks, what were they, give a hint. What were they?
μπράβο στο χάλαρη και την ορχήστρα του!!
TheDesperado121 2 weeks ago
God is a sexy lady and she is the only god in heaven and her name is BRAHMA .
all those who disagree deserve the death penalty .
ukgreaterlondon 2 months ago in playlist origini della musica
@ukgreaterlondon Correction: God is a sexy young man named Apollo who deems tolerance and wills that all party and paint and have nude beach parties!! :-D
MushroomedAnymore 2 weeks ago
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According to my decipherment the Phaistos Disc was a Greek poem: 16 dactylic hexameters - a Greek dialect of the 17th century BC. It was a ritual song (hymn): 96 music bars in 288 notes.
AnatolySherban 2 months ago
AnatolySherban 2 months ago
@AnatolySherban Its all Greek to me! :-D
MushroomedAnymore 2 weeks ago
AnatolySherban 2 months ago
It is too bad, that "some people's" strong; yet wayward convictions towards aspects of social needs for "justice" are not even broadly encourage. But at times, are even laugh at. By the mass of populations; that the speaker is trying to help or even foolishly attempt's to save.
shem
1awareness 2 months ago
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Ihr müßt euch entscheiden und zu dem stehen was ihr vertreten wollt !!!!!!Was seit Ihr Griechen (Hellenen) ? Wieviele Griechische Könige könnt Ihr vorweisen die Griechen waren?Die MAKEDONIER können das vorweisen, und das steht überall auf der Welt. Der Fehler den die Griechen machen ist folgender, ihr müßt euch entscheiden was Ihr nun sein wollt.Entweder seit IHr Griechen oder Makedonier.
Devoj4E 6 months ago
εστειλα σχετικο σχολιο-μερικη απαντηση στον leonidas++****...θα επανελθω οταν εχω χρονο...
manmamz 6 months ago
@ArkoudoROMANTIC No, the Aeolians originally came from Thessaly in northern Greece, and when the Dorian attacked in about 2000BC they fled to Lesbos and the west coast of Turkey (Smyrna, Pergamon,...).
In Arcadia they spoke a different language, now called "arcado-cypriotic".
This asides, users "etherodromos" and "MalaresianLuciferia" are still wrong to say that Latin is the same as Aeolian.
fluffytom82 7 months ago
@fluffytom82 maybe I did not explain it clearly before. Yes they did live in Thessaly , and yes they fled to Lesbos due to the Dorian attack. But the archaic center of the Aeolian tribe was Arcadia, from Arcadia some settled in Thessaly ,and from there to Lesbos, also they settled in the islands between Sicily, and Southern Italy the islands that still to this day call Aeolian islands consisting of Lipari , and other islands.
soNofLeoniDasandLas 7 months ago
@fluffytom82 I never said that Aeolian is similar to Latin. The Aeolian tribe is Pelasgian Greek, as the other Pelasgian Greek tribes. There are similarities with the Cypriot Greek dialect for a good reason. That is due to the settlement of Greek tribes from Peloponisos to the island of Cyprus in 1000 B.C. and centuries thereafter. More specific the Achaean Greeks from Argolida settled in Lemesos, larnaka, Lefkosia, and other towns, the Aeolians from Tegea Arcadia settled in Pafos, or I should-
soNofLeoniDasandLas 7 months ago
@soNofLeoniDasandLas continuing.... Aeolian Greeks from Tegea, Arcadia founded the city of Pafos, Achaeans from Lakwnia settled in Morfou, and Lapithos. This is the reason why the Cypriot Greek dialect is related to the Arcadian, and Achaean dialects of Peloponisos.
soNofLeoniDasandLas 7 months ago
@soNofLeoniDasandLas I never said that you said it. "etherodromos" and "MalaresianLuciferia" said that. And I just disagreed.
The origin of Aeolians has nothing to do with the discussion though. My only comment (to them, not to you) was that Aeolian and Latin are not the same.
fluffytom82 7 months ago
@fluffytom82 of course they are not the same. Aeolian is Pelasgian Greek.
soNofLeoniDasandLas 6 months ago
Όταν οι Έλληνες κατάλαβαν πως πιστεύουν σε κάτι λάθος άλλαξαν θρησκεία. Και ειλικρινά δεν είναι τόσο εύκολο να αλλάξει ολόκληρος λαός τη θρησκεία του! Ιδίως οι Έλληνες. Επειδή πίστευαν σε κάτι ψεύτικο ενώ ο Χριστός είναι αλήθεια!!! Άλλωστε Βυζάντιο είναι Ελλάδα, που έχει αφήσει πίσω του πολύ μεγάλο πολιτισμό και ζει μέχρι και σήμερα (:
eleper7 8 months ago
Όμορφο μέλος! Εύσημα θερμά διά την ανάρτησιν.
Mariosgeladakis 8 months ago
χριστιανισμός= πουστοθρησκεία!!!!! ζήτω το 12θεο! ζήτω η Ελλάς!
ξυπνήστε!
ImperiusGR 8 months ago
Φίλτατοι συμπατριώτες αναρωτιέμαι ,μήπως πρέπει να επιστρέψουμε στα παλιά καλά ελληνικά ιδεώδη και στον παλιό καλό ελληνικό πολιτισμό?Κάτι δεν μου πάει καλά στο εβραικό παραμύθι που μας πουλούν...
TheKILLA317 8 months ago 2
i think greece is amazing! i wanna visit there someday :)
ILUVFFANDKH 10 months ago 6
wow, when I imagin that piece of music in a sacred ritual with incense and all that - that must be very impressing!
Ilma1984 11 months ago
Is that a "band wagon" at 4:04?
I think it is. Music following a funeral, or traveling along with a wedding procession?
A lot ancient can be understood when we remember that people remain the same, no matter what the year or age.
Oh, I like the music. Much more beautiful and lyrical than Roman.
macpduff 1 year ago
"Call me old fashioned, but I think that we should worship the sun and moon as gods.... and fear them."
schwerttau 1 year ago
My question is do we know the music scale used by the ancient Greeks and Romans?
Also, just as modern music varies depending on interpretation of the artist - I wonder how close these recordings are to what the anc. Greeks performed. To bad we don't have recordings.
macpduff 1 year ago
@macpduff I wish I knew more about what scale(s) they used as well. If you find out then let me know.
Telepute 1 year ago
@macpduff several greek music scripts have been saved till today.tthe oldest complete piece of music ever found is greek and called the song of seikilos
yeosei5533 1 year ago
@macpduff We know a lot about Ancient Greek music theory, there's lots of sources, both direct and indirect. The indirect sources are for example Aristoteles and Plato, who writes about music (without really explaining any technical stuff). A direct source is Aristoxenus, who wrote a book about music called "Sectio Canonis". Later sources about Greek music are Plutarchus, Nicomachus, Cleonides, Ptolemeus,...
The scales are the same as the medieval modal scales, but named differently.
fluffytom82 11 months ago
@fluffytom82 Thank you. Having the same scale as the medieval, makes sense re how we can reproduce ancient music today.
macpduff 11 months ago
does any one know what the opera guy is singing in greek????
pvnk808 1 year ago
Amazing - thanks
Love Greece for ever
Love from Oman :)
CaribbeanDream84 1 year ago 2
I use this song for painting. It's very armonious and it's like i have the third hand !
Homer said that the "noble and manly music inspires the spirit, strengthens the wavering man and incites him to great and worthy deeds."
It's my favourite quote regarding music.
Dragos.
TheOrientalEast 1 year ago 2
sfentona, καμία σχέση όμως εντελώς. Οι μόνοι που το πιστεύουν αυτό που λες είναι οι ορθόδοξοι παπάδες που έκαναν τα πάντα για να χαθεί ο Ελληνισμός γιατί το ελεύθερο αρχαίο Ελληνικό πνεύμα έμπενε εμπόδιο στα σχέδιά τους για απόλυτη εξουσία, δύναμη και χρήμα. Απόδειξη το φιλμάκι του μουσείου της Ακρόπολης κτλ. κτλ. Τώρα αν είσαι φανατίλα Χρηστιανός και τα μυαλά στα κάγκελα άστο. Η προπαγάνδα της εκκλησίας δεν περνάει πια!!
boris33333 1 year ago
μονο που ο τραγουδιστης ερμηνευει βυζαντινοτροπα....σχιζοφρενεια.αρχαια ελλαδα-βυζαντιο:αλλοκοτο υβριδιο...ελλην-ορθοδοξια: υβρις
manmamz 1 year ago
@manmamz
file mou den 3ero pos to fantazesai oti egine alla otan alla3e siga siga h 8rhskia, den alla3e ap to simera sto aurio i mousiki. i byzantini mousiki einai stin ousia i arxaia elliniki mousi! opos kai i agiografia einai i zografiki tis arxaias elladas. merxi kai ta e8ima minan ta idia. aplos ola auta e3elix8ikan fusiologika me tin parodo tou xronou kai alla3an ta onomata. gia ka8e 8eotita mpike enas agios ktl... ola einai ena nima sunexomeno. den epese apto feggari h buzantini mousiki.
sfentonas11 1 year ago 14
@sfentonas11 Σωστός!
AlexGreatWarrior 1 year ago
@sfentonas11
Ωραία τα λες ! Γραψε τα στα ελληνικά την επόμενη φορά !
Φιλικά
kosmasmou 1 year ago
@sfentonas11 ημμμ ναι απλα δεν ειναι στα Ελληνικα φωνηεντα ειναι βασισμενη στη Ανατολικη Πελασγικη
και οχι στην Δυτικη,
Για αυτο λεμε οτι η βυζαντινη εχει σχεσει με την αρχαια αλλα δεν ειναι εξελιξη της αρχαιας,
οι Ελληνες βασιζονταν σε αλλουσ ρυθμους, μονο καποια μελη οπως τα γρηγοριανα ειναι πανω σε αρχαια και τα βρισκουμε και σε χορους,
iapetoc6 6 months ago
@manmamz ..Πράγματι είναι αλήθεια, ότι η βυζαντινή μουσική σχετίζεται άμεσα με την αρχαία Ελληνική μουσική. Η διαφοροποίηση έγινε μετά την παρέμβαση του Ιωάννη Δαμασκηνού. Αλλά και πάλι διατηρήθηκαν τα χαρακτηριστικά της στοιχεία.
ghkypreos1 1 year ago
@manmamz Mathe ligi istoria gia na min les koutamares. To byzantio epireastike polu apo thn arxea Elliniki erminefzi. Opos kai epireastike kai h Romi , h Opera paradigma eine me rizes sthn arxea Ellada pou antigrapsan oi Romeoi , kai sunexa mexri shmera se pangosmia klumaka.
soNofLeoniDasandLas 6 months ago
sorta sounds like a hebrew mousika
pvnk808 1 year ago
@pvnk808 You could say it sounds like byzantine music but not hebrew...
AlexGreatWarrior 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this. Interesting. It sounds a little monotonous and not dissimilar to ancient chinese.
dwainedibbly 1 year ago
πας μη έλλην βάρβαρος!!!!!τιμή και δόξα στούς προγόνους μας πού τίμησαν τα άγια ετούτα χώματα και πότισαν σε αυτά το αίμα τών επίδοξων κατακτητών..
TheKILLA317 1 year ago 2
I love this music. It's so evocative.
yourforte 1 year ago
I love hearing music from other times and places. Thanks for posting the music and the art, I really enjoyed it.
grindy45 1 year ago
what a wonderfull piece of art, thanks for posting it!
juanpeboy 1 year ago
Ύμνος στον Ανίκητο Ήλιο! Στον ζωοποιό Απόλλωνα!
martetrap 1 year ago
ΒΥΖΑΝΤΙΝΟ ΑΚΟΥΓΕΤΑΙ ΠΑΝΤΩΣ
GRYannisGR 1 year ago
apo tn arxaia ellada h mousiki diatiri8ike mexri tis meres mas oxi mono stin glwssa alla kai ston ru8mo kai stin domh.. opote afto p les exei vash
elething4me 1 year ago
I love ancient Greek music <3
Thank you for posting these.
PreteenParoxysm 1 year ago 2
ΕΣΣΕΤΕ ΗΜΑΡ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΙ ! ΕΣΣΕΤΕ ΗΜΑΡ !
niettevragen 1 year ago 6
What the hell? Stop arguing and listen to the music!
rockroxduh 2 years ago 49
ΓΑΜΗΣΕ ΤΟΥΣ ΡΕ ΦΙΛΕ! ΜΗΝ ΑΣΧΟΛΗΣΕ ΜΕ ΠΑΡΑΠΛΗΡΟΦΟΡΗΜΕΝΑ ΑΤΟΜΑ. ΑΝ ΤΟΥΣ ΑΡΕΣΕΙ ΝΑ ΨΑΧΝΟΥΝ ΡΙΖΕΣ, ΝΑ ΨΑΞΟΥΝ ΠΡΩΤΑ ΤΙΣ ΔΙΚΕΣ ΤΟΥΣ!
partsas 2 years ago
Can we please stop taling about race and physical appearance? Those things are irrelevant-almost-as to who we are. We share a common culture, one that is essentially Graeco-roman-christian, and this is what unites us into what we can call Western civilization.
Lysandros 2 years ago
or sounds like vysantine music!
GRYannisGR 2 years ago 2
Vyzantine music is a bad copyright of Ancient Hellenic Music.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Byzantine music does not pretend to "copy" anything, it stands in direct continuity with its past and was fully alive in its own time as music is alive today. Music is alive, not a theory of what it should be or should not be.
Lysandros 2 years ago
Byzantine Music is injected by Anatolic (Eastern) elements. Elements which make it sound like crying, begging fate etc. This is not compatible with the Hellenic (Greek) Spirit of Freedom and Stellar Light.
Ἕλλην ἢ Χριστιανός? Πρέπει νὰ διαλέξῃς διότι αὐτὰ τὰ 2 δὲν συμβιβάζονται.
etherodromos 2 years ago
incorrect
saturninofarandola1 2 years ago
Yes the Egyptians had wizdom. Greeks and Egyptians got along so well. The two biggest Empires of the Ancient world, so close geographically, and they never were in the War Path. So what do you want to say? That Plato admired their wizdom and thus there is no "pure" Greek wizdom or what?
Every time you pronounce a higher idea or a scientific term, in English or in your own language, you speak Greek.
etherodromos 2 years ago
While this is true in English (although there is also a fair amount of Latin thrown in), this is not necessarily true if "your own language" is not English.
shautora 2 years ago
Yes, English is half-Greek, half-Latin, and what is left derives from northern anglo-saxon elements. But our point is: Latin is the Ancient Greek AEOLIC dialect. Give me right here 20 Latin words of your choice and I will prove to you what percentage is Greek.
"your own language" in his case was French, ie a Latin Dialect, ie Greek-originating.
etherodromos 2 years ago
I'm sorry, I misunderstood, I thought that "your own language" was meant to mean "one's own language," rather that a particular individual's native language. Tha's my bad.
shautora 2 years ago
@etherodromos LOL, Latin and Aeolic have no relation whatsoever... Aeolic is an ancestor of classical Greek, you could call it "archaic Greek", and was spoken in Aeolia, the eastern greek isles and the coast of what is now Turkey. Latin is an italic language, with the same roots as Oscan or Umbrian.
The only thing Latin and Greek have in common is the alphabet, which they took over from the Greeks via the Etruscans.
fluffytom82 11 months ago
Comment removed
MalaresianLuciferia 11 months ago
@MalaresianLuciferia I am not talking about races or ethnics, I am talking about the origin of a language. Languages did evolve separately in different parts of the world. "etherodromos" says that Latin and Aeolian are the same language. That is 100% untrue. NOBODY said anything about different races.
If you can't read comments before insulting people, maybe you are the "fucking retard" who "can't think critically" and is "no longer intelligent".
fluffytom82 11 months ago
@fluffytom82 shut up you ethnocentric pile of shit.Obviously you can't do math and understand we came from singular race and evolved retard... you see we stem from one root, one solar system, one cosmic big fucking bang..like being born of ice is better than being born of sun...and moving from culture to the next creates diversity as it is. Learn to think critically you fucking retards...go to criticalthinkingorg
People are so driven by propaganda that they are no longer intelligent.
MalaresianLuciferia 11 months ago
@MalaresianLuciferia This is not exactly true. many species of hominid were on the earth and the same time frame. euro people may have DNA from neanderthal and many in china feel they are hybrids of homo erectus.
Cennedi 10 months ago
@MalaresianLuciferia lol, I didn't see your nice post before. Always fun to be insulted for something I never said.
Nobody, NOBODY, certainly not me, said anything about race, about evolution, about creation etc. We are speaking about a language. Something man has created to communicate.
Obviously, your language skills aren't developed yet, since you don't seem to be able to read and understand other people's posts. Maybe you are a 6 year old?
BTW Cennedi's post below is 100% true, thumbs up!
fluffytom82 7 months ago
So therefore Homer is not GRek because he may have borrowed from Eastern poetry, and the Ionian philosophers are not Greek because they borrowed from Babylonian and Persian mathematics and astronomy? And Plato wasn't Greek because he admired the wisdom of the Egyptians? Then I am wondering who is 'purely' Greek....
Lysandros 2 years ago
1. Homer did not borrow anything from the Eastern Poets. Which Eastern poets and which scripts of them? Prove your "points".
2. The Ionian (pre-Socratic) philosopher did not borrow anything from Persian and Babylonian maths and astronomy. If you want to enforce your argument, give us ONE persian or babylonian astronomer or mathematician, or ONE RESPECTIVE SCRIPT.
etherodromos 2 years ago
You speak Greek because these meanings can be conceived by ONLY the Hellenic way of thinking.
All Europe (and not only) speaks languages fertilized by the Hellenic: Ancient Greek Aeolian dialect was simplified and a little altered and became Latin. From Latin came all the European languages. Only the Nordic have less Greek seed in them (but they still have). Give me 20 English words that you want or 20 words of your language and I will prove to you how many are Greek and why.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Oh! I know this game! It's in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" :p
I must point out, however, that not all European languages come from Latin or Greek---some are not even Indo-European at all. The Celtic languages, the Slavic languages, the Germanic languages, none of these derive from Latin or Greek, although they are related. Basque, Hungarian, Finnish, and Maltese are not even related to Greek or Italian. We must keep in mind that loan-words do not imply descent or even relation.
shautora 2 years ago
Not true if your language is not English? I don't think so: Italian, French, Spanish, Portugese, English have Latin roots, ie derive from Greek.
Germanic and Nordic are pretty different, but not SO different (ie NYX-Greek, NOX-Latin, NACHT-German etc etc). Slavic have the Cyrillic origin, but I have noted many Slavic words of Latin root and Slavic suffix.
Basque, Hungarian, Finnish, etc are totally different because they derive from Mongol-Hun ancestry.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Greek and latin have different origins, besides these two language being part of indo-european family they belogn to different subfamilies, being it hellenic an italic.
xthia25 2 years ago
Regarding the Indo-European "theory": We need ONE sign of the Indo-European civilization in order to believe in its existence. ONE village, ONE script, ONE vessel, ONE tomb, ONE sign of their infamous language, ONE BONE, something.
etherodromos 2 years ago
There is no Indo-European civilization, there is an Indo-European language family, whose members all derive from a hypothetical single progenitor; so even if we found any artifacts or relics of a civilization whose people spoke this progenitor language, it would not be the "Indo-European civilization" because there is no such thing.
shautora 2 years ago
Secondly: Aeolians and Dorians migrated from Greece to south Italy in the deep past, and this is when the Latin language begins: It is firstly Aeolian, secondly Dorian and thirdly new autonomous elements, that made it a new language. The Latin alphabet (and consequently the English one), is the CHALKIDEAN - KYMAEAN alphabet (Aeolian dialect), from Euboea, Greece if you know: A,B,C,D, et cetera. ET = and in Latin, and in Ancient Greek: TE.
etherodromos 2 years ago
RΗΞ in Greek, pronounced "REEX", giving REX in Latin. (=king)
ΝΥΧ - ΝΥΧΤΟΣ (nyx - nyctos) in Greek [=NIGHT - NIGHT'S (genitive)] becomes NOX - NOCTIS in Latin.
ΘΕΟΣ (THEOS), Greek "God" becomes "DEUS" in Latin.
ΣΑΤΥROΣ = SATYR = SATURN in Latin.
ΝΕΦΟΣ (nephos) = cloud in Greek, NIMBUS in Latin.
Latin derive FROM Greek and it is not a different "sub-family" or something._
etherodromos 2 years ago
Panskrit: mata
Persian: madar
Latin: mater
English: Mother
All indo-europeian languages have a common sources but this doesn't mean that they evolved from each other, they developed separatadly. Or you also believe that because of similarities a distant language such as sanskrit also derivated from greek. I agree with "shautora" this is the My big fat greek wedding's game!!!
xthia25 2 years ago
Indo-European??? I repeat again, give me ONE proof of the existence of the Indoeuropeans. You didn't answer to my previous post.
etherodromos 2 years ago
This theory is widely accepted today by most linguists. But you seems to be confusing the questions of influence over origin. See the case of Korean. Korea is probably a isolated language or a member of ural-altaic languages. Korean has 60% of its vocabulary derivated from Chinese. But chinese is a sino-tibetan language. China has been for milleniun the main source of cultural influence in east-asia, and this include korea, The same goes to the relationship Rome Greece.
xthia25 2 years ago
Latin developed in central italy, the Latium(Lazio), and not in Magna Graecia. Latins together with Etruscans had TOTAL admiration with ancient greek culture, and this is not surprising.Ancient Greece was to romans and etruscasn as China was to Korea. They adopted part of the culture, costums and even religion!!!! But their language and identity remained unchanged.
xthia25 2 years ago
Since their language does not derive from Greek, give me right here a list of Latin words of your choice, and I will prove to you how many derive from Greek and HOW.
etherodromos 2 years ago
See, i'm not contesting the greek influence over latin, I known that many latin words derivated from greek. But these are influences, borrowed words, Ioan-words. I was trying to explane using the korean-chinese exemple, but you seem to don't understand.
xthia25 2 years ago
It is not just loan. It is the Aeolian dialect, and the Aeolian Alphabet. If it is just loans as you say, then we're talking about an 80% "loaned" language. 80% Greek vocabulary PLUS: EXACTLY the same syntax, declinations, infinitives, participles is not just an "influence"..
etherodromos 2 years ago
Latin does not have the same same syntaxes as Greek, nor participles, and nowhere near the same infinitives. From knowing Latin, there's no way you would be able to recognize a Greek infinitive, and the converse also true. As for syntax, Latin has an entire case more than Greek, something retained in a few other Indo-European languages, such as Sanskrit, but something lost in Greek before writing, as far as I'm aware.
shautora 2 years ago
The latin syntax is totally similar to the greek one. It HAS participles and is full of infinitives. You say there are no participles: You're wrong: ALEA JACTA EST: Jacta: participle. It has also the Gerund added, something not existent in ancient greek, but it banished some greek forms, like the 3-number case (Singular, Binar, Plural -while in all the other languages of the world we have only singular and plural)
etherodromos 2 years ago
I need to clarify myself. Of course Latin had participles, this is obvious, however they do not function entirely similarly to Greek; there are similarities to be sure, but not the similarities that imply a filial relationship.
shautora 2 years ago
2) Latin comes from Greek, very similar vocabulary and Syntax, Romans and Greeks very close brother nations, similar in everything, Rome is the continuator and the child of Greece, even nowadays the Italians have a saying when referring to their neighbour, Greeks: UNA FAZZA UNA RAZZA meaning ONE FACE ONE RACE.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Because they are similar does not imply that Latin comes from Greek. If such similarities imply that one must derive from the other, how then would you refute the statement that Greek must therefore derive from Latin?
shautora 2 years ago
BECAUSE GREEK IS BY MILLENIA OLDER THAN LATIN, MATE!!!
And tell me what these differences in the usage of participles are.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Firstly---are you implying that Saturn the father of the Gods...was a satyr?? As it is, current speculation is that Saturn derives from the word "satis," meaning "enough," "sufficience," as many of his rites and festivals were closely linked with the harvest and bounty.
As for "nephos" --> "nimbus" linguistically it sounds more like it should be the other way around, since it would be much more likely for the Greeks to lose an m than for the Latins to gain one.
shautora 2 years ago
Satyr: When a word "travels" through the languages, it does not necessarily maintain the same meaning, but it maintains the root. That's why I mentioned Saturn - Satyr. Or you claim that these 2 roots are irrelevant?
Nimbus - Nephos: NEPHOS is a word used at least on 200 bc by Homer, while Nimbus came much later. So there is no way that Nephos comes from Nimbus, but it is the other way. And the "m" can be either added or subtracted, you're just making speculations.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Typing error: 2000 BC by Homer (and not 200 BC)
etherodromos 2 years ago
That sounds more like it :p
shautora 2 years ago
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shautora 2 years ago
As for the letter m, I am speculating nothing, I am simply stating that IF we consider a filial relationship between the two, the chances that nephos is derived from nimbus would be much higher than the other way around. In my linguistic experience, it the deletion of a nasal before a plosive is exceedingly more common than its insertion, however I would need to confirm this with linguistic literature before stating it concretely.
shautora 2 years ago
You say Nimbus deriving Nephos has less possibilities than the other way huh?
80% of the Latin words derive from Greek, and no Greek from Latin, so how can this have a largest possibility? They just added an M, as they added many things, but the roots are Hellenic.
etherodromos 2 years ago
I believe your figures are a bit high. Where did you get this statistic? In all of my experience with Latin, I have not found this to be the case.
shautora 2 years ago
I have told you rpepeaedly, give me 20 or 50 or whatever random Latin words of your choice, and I will prove to you right here a percentage. And this "figures" can be easily obtained by a plain dictionary: If you know Greek and Latin, you pull the conclusions at once.
etherodromos 2 years ago
@etherodromos I think you have a problem with your keyboard... You type 2000BC for Homeros, while it should have been 800BC. Now you type 80% of the Latin words come from Greek while it should be maybe 8% (and even that is too much).
You should buy another keyboard, the one you have clearly doesn't write numbers very well ;)
fluffytom82 11 months ago
Also, the phenomenon you are describing, is what are known as "cognates," these are all derived from the same parent language, one does not come from the other.
shautora 2 years ago
3) Semets anthropologically are a branch of the wide Asian family of the Turanian Mongols - Hans, and their genarch (the one who "started" their race) is Abra-Han or Abraam. In the wide turanian family, except the Mongols themselves, belong the Turks (Turuks), the Tatars, the Huns of Hungary, the Semets, the Bayars-Bavars or Avars, and many others.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Again, where does this information come from? I have never heard of the "Turanian Mongols," nor the "Asian family" thereof. I can tell you that the Turkic peoples, while related to the Mongolians, are not Mongolic, and vice versa.
shautora 2 years ago
All of them are of Mongolic descendance, ie mixture (raping actually) of Mongols with White populations (as the Mongolic hordes were moving Westwards and Westwards). The Semets are a mixture of Mongols and Arabs (that's how this curved hawk-shaped nose is so common to the Semets). SO Turks and the rest are of Mongolic origin.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Turkish people are of mainly native anatolian origin, as confirmated by researches. Turkic influence is more linguistic and cultural than genetic. Go to wikipedia, type "turkish people" and then "Ethnogenesis and genetic links".
xthia25 2 years ago
"Turkish and Kurdish HLA profiles are studied for the first time. The comparative study of their allele frequencies, characteristic haplotypes, genetic distances with other Mediterraneans is complemented by neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. Turks, Kurds, Armenians, Iranians, Jews, Lebanese and other (Eastern and Western) Mediterranean groups seem to share a common ancestry: the older "Mediterranean" substratum." Universidad Complutense
Carretera Andalucia
xthia25 2 years ago
shut up man
you have only 40 % european blood and you dare to talk
you people have a lot of north african / semitic in you
ulverup 2 years ago
@ulverup
Get the fuck out of my face punkster, you Italians owe your cilture to us and everybody knows it. In WW2 we, poor and armed with stones and knives, demolished your super-armed army of airplanes and tanks. You performed a crescento of cowardness when you fought with us that is unmatched in European history.
etherodromos 2 years ago 2
i am italian , but i am from the north , of german heritage , i am pure indo european not like you sand n*****
i don't get it , why you are talking shit about semiitic people when you are one of them ?
any one with hallf brain can see that an average greek look more like a levant arab than a swedish or a german
ulverup 2 years ago
If you care so much about my appearance faggot, I bet I am much blonder than you, hawk-nosed soft-western-femalized rubbish.
Hast thou asked thy mother how many dicks she tasted in her cave before she met thy father? Or doth she taste still?
Smoke some more cigarettes junkie, western nerdy soft unmanly faggy butterball.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Again name your sources of which Eastern poets, astronomers, mathematicians or whoever, the Greeks borrowed from. Give me ONE name or ONE script. Otherwise you are either ignorant or liar.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Your dismissing byzantine music simply because it has 'eastern' rythms in it is, since it is the cause of the argument, simply foolish. Greek culture has undergone influences as others have been influenced by the Greeks, and there is no shame in that. If the GReeks as a people decide to borrow a foreign invention, or use a foreign knowledge and then develop it and expand upon it, and to make these their own, what wrong is there in this?
Lysandros 2 years ago
If you like, you may just as well stop using the alphabet, since it is orignially an eastern, phoenician--a semitic people--invention, and go back to Linear B, which is even itself based upon the Minoan script, a non-Greek people. There is no shame in borrowing from others, it is not about making one or the other 'superior' and the other 'inferior,'; it is just historical reality. What makes a people great is how they develop their mind and knowledge, not how they discover it.
Lysandros 2 years ago
1. Minoans were Greeks. Cretans. They spoke Greek, wrote Greek, worshiped Greek Gods.
2. The Alphabet is not semetic. It is Greek. Since you support it is semetic, give me ONE semetic script, writing, vessel, anything, any proof, of semetic text with this alphabet.
Linears A and B were Greek and moreover they gave the Greek alphabet, as every "sign" made one syllable of 2 or 3 letters.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Minoans were NOT Greeks--the Mycenaeans were. Both influenced each other very heavily culturally. If the Minoans were indeed Greeks, then why can't we decipher and read Linear A, as we can Linear B? This and your other claims are ridiculous and, honestly, completely unworthy of someone who pretends to teach others to 'argue." If you want your evidence, look for it in scholarly archaeological studies, if you are even willing to do so--unless of course you fear they disagree with you.
Lysandros 2 years ago
You are unable to support, even at the slightest, your own "arguments".
You try to "cover-up" your inablitity with unsuccessful ironies.
etherodromos 2 years ago
It is a well-known and accepted fact that the Greek script is a form of the Phoenician alphabet adapted by the Greeks for use with their own language. You can find this anywhere. Even the names of the letters are taken directly from Phoenician.
shautora 2 years ago
Again you don't reply to my comment: I said that we have Greek-Phoenicians and Semetic-Phoenicians. The Alphabet comes from the Greek-Phoenicians: By KADMOS, Greek-Phoenician. PHOENIX itself is a Greek word, meaning RED. The alphabet comes from Greeks (Pelasgian origin) and not by semetes (Mongolic origin)
etherodromos 2 years ago
Very well then, I clarify that it is a well-known and accepted fact that the Greek script is a form of the Phoenician alphabet derived for use with the Semitic Phoenician language, whence the Semitic names of the letters, which, as it happens are retained in Greek.
And Semites are most certainly not in any way Mongolic.
shautora 2 years ago
OK then, tell me what makes the Indo-European case so strong, since we don't have signs of such a civilization. There was only a Indo-European language family, ok give me some proofs of its existence.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Synopsis:
1) The Greek Alphabet is GREEK and not semetic, founded by the Greek-Phoenician (and not Semetic-Phoenician) KADMOS, king of Thebes. Even Phoenix is a Greek name meaning RED, common in the Ancient Greek scripts. The semets didn't even have vowels, didn't even have a strong language. Do you doubt that?
etherodromos 2 years ago
"Didn't have a strong language"? What does that even mean? If you look at the continuum of the alphabet, it is obvious that the Greek alphabet is derived from its Semitic Phoenician predecessor--even the names of the letters are Semitic. However, while I have made sure to confirm with some source everything I have said before I have said it, and throughout this discussion you obviously haven't even bothered to look at the alphabet, you plainly do not merit any more of my time or wasted breath
shautora 2 years ago
I have asked you a dozen questions and you don't answer in anything.
I know the semitic alphabet and language, mate. It has no vowels and it is primitive, like the semetes who had a primitive civilization and were mainly shepperds. The Hellenic language is much older than the semitic. The Orphic Hymns speak about a stellar phenomenon that happens every 20000 years and it happened on 9600 BC and they speak about it like "a millennium ago".
etherodromos 2 years ago
@etherodromos The semitic alphabets had vowels.
alp = a
he = e
waw = y
het = è
yod = i
ain = o
And about your stellar phenomenon: you watch too many Scifi man. It's not because History Channel made a show about something that it's true.
fluffytom82 11 months ago
You obviously don't care about finding the truth, only about making your point.
shautora 2 years ago
We have the Hellenic civilization and its shining glory, and the Semetic civilization which has only dark things to show, and no science: Name ONE semetic mathematician, astronomer, philosopher or whatever. Only shepherds and mother-fuckers (literally). So any academic who "speculates" that the semetic civilization is older than the Hellenic, and the Hellenic derives thence, is either unworthy or "suspect" [...]
etherodromos 2 years ago
You never heard about the Islamic Golden age? About Geber (Jabir ibn Hayyan), Avicena, Ali al-qasadi, Abu al-qasim..... You live in world of absurd dreams! Creation your OWN truths.
xthia25 2 years ago
No I have never heard about the Geber ibn dick-sucker that you mentioned, and few have heard of him, because his contribution to civilization was neglegible.
And the Turks are mainly Mongols, their huge cheek-bones and almond-shaped eyes speak for themselves.
etherodromos 2 years ago
Yes, you are true, algebrics, algorithms(that you own computer system is based)y, indo-arabic system, "the canon of medicine", modern surgery and anesthesia, have really no value for civilization. You may think what you want!!! I dont care, You are rude and unaducated, Discussing with you is a totall waste of TIME!
P.S.: Your ethnocentrism will lead you no nothing!
xthia25 2 years ago
Algebra and Algorithm indeed are Arabian words.
ARABIAN and not semetic, if this is what you meant.
We have respect for the Arabian civilization, but we despise and spit on the graves of the semetic civilization, because it took humanity back.
Our subject was semetism-Hellenism, and you started talking about Arabs.
xthia you are always off subject and since thou canst not speak, the dialog is not promoted.
etherodromos 2 years ago
If by "semetic" you mean SEMITIC, then i'm not wrong. Arabic people in general are considerated semitic in language and culture, but when it comes to genetics this may vary. Also regarding turkish people you really think that few invaders replaced a whole population of 12 millions of greek speaking byzantiines, I sent you a message from a study carried by two universities talking about their genetics.
xthia25 2 years ago
Get back on our subject.
Regarding Turks, they are Mongols in their veins. Their real homeland is Western China. Where they are now is stolen land: It is Ionia, Greece.
etherodromos 2 years ago 47
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Uyghurs are anatolian turks such as greeks are ethiopians! Came on!!!
xthia25 2 years ago
m or f ?
etherodromos 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@xthia25
HAHAHAHH YOU IDIOT ! have EVER seen a GREEK and a ethiopean before ? YOU TWAT ! get out of the cave you live !
niettevragen 1 year ago
@niettevragen The idiot here is you. I'm JOKING. I was being ironic!!! "Turkish are mongols so like greeks are ethiopians." Because for me, these two statements are ABSURD!
xthia25 1 year ago
@xthia25 you are ethiopians
have you see any black greek?no
have you see any black brasilian?yes
kathylgk 1 year ago
@kathylgk Again! This was a joke. You are being stupid here.
xthia25 1 year ago
@etherodromos
And before that it was ruled by the Hittite Empire. There is hardly any nation today whose root people originate in the region. Even the Greeks in Greece probably migrated there (Mycenaeans were Indo-European migrants from what we can tell). However, I agree the Turks need to realize that they indeed came from the Steppes of Asia and be less prideful.
SSchultz82 1 year ago
@SSchultz82 there were pro mycaenians greeks living in cyclades and crete since 5.000 before Christ.
yeosei5533 1 year ago
@yeosei5533
The inhabitants of Crete were Minoan, not Mycenaean. Those originally in the Cyclades were not Mycenaean either. These so-called Helladic civilizations predate Mycenaean civilization. Interestingly, the Mycenaean language is Indo-European whereas the others (Minoan) are not. For these reasons Mycenaeans are seen as an Indo-European people that arrived in the area in the Bronze Age. Also, 5000 B.C. is about 1500 years before the Cycladic civ..., so that is definitely too early.
SSchultz82 1 year ago
@SSchultz82 οκ so some paintings were made by their own??
yeosei5533 1 year ago
@yeosei5533
What? Other people have made paintings besides the Mycenaeans. It just means the pre-Mycenaean inhabitants of Greece painted them. If you mean these paintings are from the Cyclades but around 5000 B.C., then it predates the civilization and thus should not be characterized as a part of it.
SSchultz82 1 year ago
@SSchultz82 ok ok a PAParyan like you is always correct
yeosei5533 1 year ago
@yeosei5533
Huh? Do you mean a PAN-Aryan? Also, I believe there is some truth to it, yes (as archaeology and legends support). For example Divas, Tiwaz, Tyr, and Zeus supposedly have a link across these Indo-European cultures. Presumably Zeus's father Chronos was the earlier Greek pantheon leader, hence the story of his displacement. Similar to how the Germanic Aesir more or less supplanted the Vanir. Anyway, this is from reading numerous books, not because of personal racist beliefs.
SSchultz82 1 year ago
@SSchultz82 NO i definatelly mean PAParyan
yeosei5533 1 year ago
@yeosei5533
Then I have no idea what you mean, has no meaning in English. Lost in translation I guess.
SSchultz82 1 year ago
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SSchultz82 1 year ago
@etherodromos Turk race Uigurs live today in Western Takla Makan.They are 8 millions
yeosei5533 1 year ago
@etherodromos yeah please say "Ancient Greece " or "Hellenic City-states" because the Greeks from nowadays don't have anything in common with modern Greeks..
BlizzardRoach 1 year ago
@BlizzardRoach hahaha
yeosei5533 1 year ago
@BlizzardRoach That is true!!! Greeks nowadays....It is a shame
santero9999 1 year ago
@BlizzardRoach I am from Sparta Greece , and we keep our culture, and our heritage in our heart for thousands of years,if someone insult us he will find out who we are. Do not come to conclusions looking at what is happening today in Greece. Greek people know well what is going on , and through this chaotic situation something will change, but as I said for many of us there is that bright light in our heart, and soul that never extinguished- and never will- in thousands of years.
soNofLeoniDasandLas 6 months ago
@soNofLeoniDasandLas Do you follow Christianity or keep it traditional? I'm from Persia but I don't know much about my ancient heritage. All I know is Persians and Greeks were ancient enemies but we are good friends now and should remember out ancestors.
jumshid 1 month ago in playlist More videos from sfentonas11
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MalaresianLuciferia 11 months ago
@etherodromos turks homeland is in hell thats where the come from how I wish they all could be sent back there!
atfatw 10 months ago
There was a time indeed when Greece was home to the most brilliant scholars on this part of the planet. Hard to imagine these days, especially against some of the mental sewerage found on this page.
voxhunden 2 years ago
are you aware that you have 29 % haplogroup J ( semitic ) runing in your veins right now ?
ever wonder why you aren't as white as other europeans ?
ulverup 2 years ago
Just for the record ulverup, I am blonde, white as milk, and have green eyes, since you brought up my appearance. Yes there has been mixing, all over the world and not only in Mediterranean, but that doesn't mean there is no Greek gene alive nowadays.
Speaking about darkness, do you consider you Italians less dark than us?
etherodromos 2 years ago 2
no but you as a greek , you are a mix of middle eastern and north africans and europeans
you only have 40 % european blood ,and yes , greeks in general are darker than italians , the only dark people in italy are from calabria and sicily ( you know the story )
but semitic blood is found everywhere in greece , sorry but 29 % is too much to be ignored
ulverup 2 years ago
There is no semetic blood in Greece whatsoever. There was no historical time when Greeks mixed with semetes.
This 29% is an illusion of your schizophrenic imagination. Which is your source, your mother's wetpool?
etherodromos 2 years ago
Look up the Orphic Hymns, they are online even in English
etherodromos 2 years ago
You write "The Greeks did not become the teachers of the world by holding such narrow views as yours".
So are they the teachers of the world eventually?
etherodromos 2 years ago
Did you really think that I said the contrary? --I never even mentioned it once, but of course, you ASSUMED that I said they were not. Why then even attempt discussion with you? I am not concerned with assumption and theories.
Lysandros 2 years ago
I have studied the scholarly archaeology books. Have you? I don't think so, because what you say (probably you read it somewhere in there) is one of many disagreeing points.
ΜΙΝΩΣ (MINOS), meaning "resistant" in Greek, is whence "Minoan" derives. Minos was the king of Minoic Crete.
Minoans were Hellanians (Greeks), member of the great Mediterranean Pelasgian family. The fact that we haven't fully decoded Linear A (yet), is a proof that Minoans were not Greeks?
etherodromos 2 years ago
Note that Minos is not an historically attested character (not Pericles, Leonidas, Croesus, etc.). We do not know if there was a king like him, less so that he was indeed called Minos. The origins of the historical Minoans people are obscure, but they were not Greek in culture. The method that Ventris used to decipher Linear B failed when applied to Linear A. If Linear A wrote Greek, and Linear B used a similar script, then how can we not read Linear A?
Lysandros 2 years ago
1. If Minos was real or mythological, is not our issue here. Our issue is the name "MINOS", MINOAN etc: The name is Greek.
2. Minoans were not Greek in culture?? They worshipped Greek Gods (Rhea, Erebos etc), spoke Greek to Theseus (King of Athens) when he got there, or was he not Greek either? Minos was the son of ZEUS and EUROPA. Even if that is mythology, it is a proof that the Minoans were Greeks. Knossos is a Greek name. If they were not Greeks, what were they, give a hint. What were they?
etherodromos 2 years ago
3. What do you read son? Who told you that Linear B and A are similar as you write below?
What are you implying, that because B is Greek and decoded and A is not (yet) => A is not Greek? What kind of logical con-sequence lead you there?
etherodromos 2 years ago
The Greeks did not become the teachers of the world by holding such narrow views a