Typical tosh. It is predicted that the drop in CO2 will be minute following the rise in tax with more miles being driven outside the Cz to avoid payment. Anyway the tax isnt only for large cars but covers many family cars, BMW 5,Audi A6 etc. It wouldnt be so bad if the extra revenue was spent on the enviroment, eg grants for ground source heating on new houses. To insult to an already stupid stunt the Cayenne wasnt a turbo but humble V6 and the 911 wasnt the GT2, but maybe Im just being biased?!
Interesting point at the end there, about spending revenue on the environment. Sian promises to hand out grants for home insulation to everyone who needs it. Might I guess that this new tax would be used to prop up that new expenditure?
Ridiculous. What does the Green party want if it comes to power? Taxes, taxes, taxes? Restrict people's free choice of vehicle? Believe the delusioned, improvable 'carbon dioxide is ruining our world' theory?
Prove that the vast majority of climate scientists believe that ridiculous theory. I put forward to you the conclusion of some of the world's foremost scientists at the Manhattan Declaration: "there is no convincing evidence that CO2 emissions from modern industrial activity has in the past, is now, or will in the future cause catastrophic climate change." Now it's your turn to actually come up with something substantial, green boy.
Are UKIP officially the party for climate change sceptics? I've noticed that a lot of their members are, but does the party actually have any official stance or policies on climate change?
"UKIP thinks that adoption of rigid targets on carbon dioxide emissions by the UK
is inappropriate, and that the cost of measures seeking to achieve these targets cannot be justified in the absence of clear evidence that such emissions are the major contributor to global warming. The EU, being in total control of energy policy under the rehashed
Constitution, can implement futile targets regardless of their impact on UK citizens. This is profoundly undemocratic."
Frankly, I can't even tell that the climate is changing. Why should carbon make a difference, anyway? Like the UKIP policy says "these targets cannot be justified in the absence of clear evidence that such emissions are the major contributor to global warming." I believe the CO2 rouse is just a device on which the Green party has capitalised to try and scrabble desperately for more of its valued votes.
No, the Greens definitely didn't just jump on a bandwagon. The greens have been going on about this for years. Its the other main parties who've just, recently, jumped on the bandwagon to try and look a bit green.
Carbon dioxide makes a difference because the molecules stop some of the heat from leaving the Earth; it acts a bit like a blanket. So the world gradually gets warmer. This puts the natural balance out, very fast in geological time.
No, the Greens definitely didn't just jump on a bandwagon. The greens have been going on about this for years. Its the other main parties who've just, recently, jumped on the bandwagon to try and look a bit green.
Carbon dioxide makes a difference because the molecules stop some of the heat from leaving the Earth; it acts a bit like a blanket. So the world gradually gets warmer. This puts the natural balance out, very fast in geological time.
Which means that it gets much harder for many species of animal, humans in particular, to adapt. What we're looking at is mass flooding of the low-lying areas where most of the people live, more droughts & more torrential rain. If your house, near sea level, gets flooded, or if you starve because of droughts, or any of those things, then that restricts Ur freedom much much more than taking the most polluting cars off the market. Most of the effect is on the global poor, too, who don't even drive
Which low-lying areas? Stats? PROOF that CO2 has DEFINITELY caused this? Justification for raising taxes and trying to mess with the honourable capitalist-libertarian system we value so much today?
The capitalist system is so not honourable. Hoarding loads of money & just watching your brothers & sisters all over the world starve to death is SADISM. Sharing and compassion are both honourable things. But people generally only do this when everyone else does, which is the general point of regulation and taxes.
As for libertarian system: WHAT R U TALKING ABOUT. In case U haven't noticed, the govt is launching huge attacks on civil liberties, including but not limited to ID cards, extended detention without charge, and lots more wonderful Orwellian stuff. All of which the greens oppose, I believe.
There's no 2 ways about it, Uv been brainwashed by the bourgoisee & govt & the conventional media.
Actually UKIP puts a stress on the "Independence" part of it's name and plans to rename itself to The Independence Party. I agree with you (we do have some common ground) that this Labour government, as well as the Tories and LibDems all want to become ever more Orwellian (the EU helps too).
Now I think that the Green party using the facade of "CO2 global warming" as a way to raise taxes and restrict some liberties is just wrong and I have reason to believe the Greens would even stay in the EU!
That is indeed why I am talking on this page; I am saying that the Greens are not as libertarian as they want to appear. As the M. Decl. says:
"current plans to restrict anthropogenic CO2 emissions are a dangerous misallocation of intellectual capital and resources that should be dedicated to solving humanity's real and serious problems."
So basically stupid "green taxes" and car-hate and all that "whoa, man, we're gonna get flooded dude" stuff is twaddle and let's focus on proper issues, eh?
Except you havent shown why the Manhattan Declaration is any more correct or authorititive than the reports that contradict it such as the IPCC report, the UN Geo4 report and the paper I cited in these comments. If the climate scientists are right then our carbon emissions are indeed restricting the liberty of others and it will get worse. Also an increased tax on pollution allows us to reduce other taxes such as VAT.
OK. Let's call it evens. Our evidence cancels each other's out. Agreed?
So where do we go? We go to proof. I have never and nobody I know has experienced global warming. Humans are releasing CO2 but the fact is that CO2 is not doing any harm. I am tired now and I will consult with my climate change sceptic experts tomorrow.
OK. Let's call it evens. Our evidence cancels each other's out. Agreed?
So where do we go? We go to proof. I have never and nobody I know has experienced global warming. Humans are releasing CO2 but the fact is that CO2 is not doing any harm. I am tired now and I will consult with my climate change sceptic experts tomorrow.
Except you haven't provided evidence, you have provided a statement with no list of signatories. I have provided citations to two reports written and reviewed by hundreds of (named) scientists, and an article in Science that shows the scientists agree.
I am not a climatology expert, but have good journal access so could look at any articles your expert friends suggest, although I would recommend directing them to the IPCC or perhaps the Royal Society.
("Carbon dioxide makes a difference because the molecules stop some of the heat from leaving the Earth; it acts a bit like a blanket. So the world gradually gets warmer. This puts the natural balance out, very fast in geological time.")
I will check with my guy later in the week what he thinks if that is the science you believe.
("Carbon dioxide makes a difference because the molecules stop some of the heat from leaving the Earth; it acts a bit like a blanket. So the world gradually gets warmer. This puts the natural balance out, very fast in geological time.")
I will check with my guy later in the week what he thinks if that is the science you believe.
I don't doubt that those Westminster parties (esp. the Tories) have jumped on the bandwagon.
I am just sceptical of your science (which I don't believe is actually happening). I don't want to appear really hostile - it's just that the Green party and Labour are most definitely using the environment and CO2 to increase taxes and I am appalled that they are actually decreasing personal freedom by this taxing and tries to pressurise car makers etc.
Voting UKIP is pointless. 90% of their website is dedicated to bashing the EU, which has made one of the greatest efforts to combat global warming than anyone else. What do they stand for other than that? The greens respect personal freedom far more than UKIP.
I'm usually a lib dem supporter, but Brian Paddick is far to illiberal and nowhere near green enough. I wish Siân the best of luck and hope UKIP loses its "seats" (even if both members have defected).
And what have the EU actually DONE to stop "global warming" except force ministers and heads of government to fly around Europe for so many petty futile summits.
I suggest that they make rather a large contribution to "global warming" themselves!
What's the point of voting UKIP for the mayoral elections if all they want to do is pull us out of the EU? That's not decided ny the mayor of London, it was decided in 1975 by the public.
How would a UKIP mayor bring such world-renowned events like the Tour de France to London again with such nationalist views?
I want a free society, and that doesn't mean being in or out of the EU, that means repsecting the choices and dignity of all individuals.
I want a greener and more liberal world. If that can only be achieved by taxing people driving stupidly large vehicles around within a 1km radius then they should pay more for the priviledge.
Whether you agree with the greenhouse effect or not, too much pollution makes the air grim and unhealthy. Using renewable energy will also save money importing oil, gas and coal from unstable "democracies". We have the greatest renewable opportunity in Europe: let's exploit that instead of Iraqis
UKIP has hardly any policies on anything other than the EU and the environment. With regard to personal freedoms, the Greens support recreational drug use (which would kill off drug dealers overnight), they support rights for all minorities (gays, gender issues and ethnic minorities), and would give people the freedom to earn what they deserve.
Life's much more than profit and wealth. The planet is at risk here. The time to act passed long ago, we need a more sustaineble world today.
You clearly haven't done your RESEARCH, YET AGAIN. I am tired of your stupid Green lies. If you'd bothered to even look at UKIP's policies on their website you'd see that there is a wide range.
Legalising cannabis and ecstasy is libertas gratia libertatis and will only ruin more lives. There is a point where freedom just becomes stupid and ecstasy is one of them.
UKIP supports cleaner environment as they want to rid cities of pollution. That is just common sense. See also UKIP's environ-policy
UKIP support also gay rights and are constitutionally bound not to discriminate against race.
It is not nationalistic and I would have thought that is would be too stupid even for the BNP to outlaw the Tour de France.
ust use your head before you rant so wrongly next time, monsigneur.
I think you'd find if you make polls that people don't want ecstasy legalising and if they knew the truth they'd want lower taxes and out of the expensive, legislating, useless EU!
The green party is hardly extremely pro-EU. I support entry into the eurozone and such, but the greens don't.
Anyway, UKIP has lost most of its support. The UKIP bubble has burst. In opinion polls you keep drifting between 0% and 1%, whereas the greens drift between 2% and 5%. The fascist BNP has more support than you.
3 million people may have supported your views on Europe, but you won't get that at this election.
Clearly. That is why UKIP self-professedly isn't putting effort into these upcoming local and mayoral elections - they will not be able to change anything about the EU.
But I think you'll find that we will be returning higher numbers than ever before in 2009 and 2010 (Gens and Euros) as membership rises and people lose more and more faith in parties like the Greens who support the EU.
And as far as I am concerned the Nazi BNP can go to hell. At least you Greens are racially accountable.
I'm not a green, i'm a liberal that dislikes Brian Paddick and was supporting Siân. Your vote in London has almost completely diminished, even so shortly after the EU treaty thing and some so angry (allegedly) with the EU.
Well done to the greens for coming 4th. It's just a shame that the BNP managed to get on the assembly.
As for UKIP, I can imagine a heavy loss in representation in 2009 and I hope the liberals (and greens) get more seats then.
Typical tosh. It is predicted that the drop in CO2 will be minute following the rise in tax with more miles being driven outside the Cz to avoid payment. Anyway the tax isnt only for large cars but covers many family cars, BMW 5,Audi A6 etc. It wouldnt be so bad if the extra revenue was spent on the enviroment, eg grants for ground source heating on new houses. To insult to an already stupid stunt the Cayenne wasnt a turbo but humble V6 and the 911 wasnt the GT2, but maybe Im just being biased?!
flashards 3 years ago
Interesting point at the end there, about spending revenue on the environment. Sian promises to hand out grants for home insulation to everyone who needs it. Might I guess that this new tax would be used to prop up that new expenditure?
left888 3 years ago
Ridiculous. What does the Green party want if it comes to power? Taxes, taxes, taxes? Restrict people's free choice of vehicle? Believe the delusioned, improvable 'carbon dioxide is ruining our world' theory?
Utter tosh.
Vote UKIP.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
I suppose the vast majority of the worlds climate scientists are delusional are they?
chyland 3 years ago
Prove that the vast majority of climate scientists believe that ridiculous theory. I put forward to you the conclusion of some of the world's foremost scientists at the Manhattan Declaration: "there is no convincing evidence that CO2 emissions from modern industrial activity has in the past, is now, or will in the future cause catastrophic climate change." Now it's your turn to actually come up with something substantial, green boy.
Vote UKIP.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
Er, is there a list of these 'foremost' scientists anywhere?
A recent survey on attitudes to global warming is:
BEYOND THE IVORY TOWER:
The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change
Naomi Oreskes
Science, Vol. 306. no. 5702, p. 1686, it's available for free.
chyland 3 years ago
Are UKIP officially the party for climate change sceptics? I've noticed that a lot of their members are, but does the party actually have any official stance or policies on climate change?
sueluxton 3 years ago 2
"UKIP thinks that adoption of rigid targets on carbon dioxide emissions by the UK
is inappropriate, and that the cost of measures seeking to achieve these targets cannot be justified in the absence of clear evidence that such emissions are the major contributor to global warming. The EU, being in total control of energy policy under the rehashed
Constitution, can implement futile targets regardless of their impact on UK citizens. This is profoundly undemocratic."
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
(above from UK Independence Party Energy and Environment Policy: January 2008)
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
Thanks for the response. So UKIP are not convinced that carbon emissions are a major contributor to climate change? Hmm.
sueluxton 3 years ago
Frankly, I can't even tell that the climate is changing. Why should carbon make a difference, anyway? Like the UKIP policy says "these targets cannot be justified in the absence of clear evidence that such emissions are the major contributor to global warming." I believe the CO2 rouse is just a device on which the Green party has capitalised to try and scrabble desperately for more of its valued votes.
Freedom shall prevail.
Vote UKIP.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
No, the Greens definitely didn't just jump on a bandwagon. The greens have been going on about this for years. Its the other main parties who've just, recently, jumped on the bandwagon to try and look a bit green.
Carbon dioxide makes a difference because the molecules stop some of the heat from leaving the Earth; it acts a bit like a blanket. So the world gradually gets warmer. This puts the natural balance out, very fast in geological time.
left888 3 years ago
No, the Greens definitely didn't just jump on a bandwagon. The greens have been going on about this for years. Its the other main parties who've just, recently, jumped on the bandwagon to try and look a bit green.
Carbon dioxide makes a difference because the molecules stop some of the heat from leaving the Earth; it acts a bit like a blanket. So the world gradually gets warmer. This puts the natural balance out, very fast in geological time.
left888 3 years ago
Which means that it gets much harder for many species of animal, humans in particular, to adapt. What we're looking at is mass flooding of the low-lying areas where most of the people live, more droughts & more torrential rain. If your house, near sea level, gets flooded, or if you starve because of droughts, or any of those things, then that restricts Ur freedom much much more than taking the most polluting cars off the market. Most of the effect is on the global poor, too, who don't even drive
left888 3 years ago
Which low-lying areas? Stats? PROOF that CO2 has DEFINITELY caused this? Justification for raising taxes and trying to mess with the honourable capitalist-libertarian system we value so much today?
Maybe we should just keep what we've got?
Vote UKIP.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
The capitalist system is so not honourable. Hoarding loads of money & just watching your brothers & sisters all over the world starve to death is SADISM. Sharing and compassion are both honourable things. But people generally only do this when everyone else does, which is the general point of regulation and taxes.
left888 3 years ago
As for libertarian system: WHAT R U TALKING ABOUT. In case U haven't noticed, the govt is launching huge attacks on civil liberties, including but not limited to ID cards, extended detention without charge, and lots more wonderful Orwellian stuff. All of which the greens oppose, I believe.
There's no 2 ways about it, Uv been brainwashed by the bourgoisee & govt & the conventional media.
VOTE GREEN!
left888 3 years ago
Actually UKIP puts a stress on the "Independence" part of it's name and plans to rename itself to The Independence Party. I agree with you (we do have some common ground) that this Labour government, as well as the Tories and LibDems all want to become ever more Orwellian (the EU helps too).
Now I think that the Green party using the facade of "CO2 global warming" as a way to raise taxes and restrict some liberties is just wrong and I have reason to believe the Greens would even stay in the EU!
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
That is indeed why I am talking on this page; I am saying that the Greens are not as libertarian as they want to appear. As the M. Decl. says:
"current plans to restrict anthropogenic CO2 emissions are a dangerous misallocation of intellectual capital and resources that should be dedicated to solving humanity's real and serious problems."
So basically stupid "green taxes" and car-hate and all that "whoa, man, we're gonna get flooded dude" stuff is twaddle and let's focus on proper issues, eh?
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
Except you havent shown why the Manhattan Declaration is any more correct or authorititive than the reports that contradict it such as the IPCC report, the UN Geo4 report and the paper I cited in these comments. If the climate scientists are right then our carbon emissions are indeed restricting the liberty of others and it will get worse. Also an increased tax on pollution allows us to reduce other taxes such as VAT.
chyland 3 years ago
OK. Let's call it evens. Our evidence cancels each other's out. Agreed?
So where do we go? We go to proof. I have never and nobody I know has experienced global warming. Humans are releasing CO2 but the fact is that CO2 is not doing any harm. I am tired now and I will consult with my climate change sceptic experts tomorrow.
Vote UKIP.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
OK. Let's call it evens. Our evidence cancels each other's out. Agreed?
So where do we go? We go to proof. I have never and nobody I know has experienced global warming. Humans are releasing CO2 but the fact is that CO2 is not doing any harm. I am tired now and I will consult with my climate change sceptic experts tomorrow.
Vote UKIP.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
Except you haven't provided evidence, you have provided a statement with no list of signatories. I have provided citations to two reports written and reviewed by hundreds of (named) scientists, and an article in Science that shows the scientists agree.
I am not a climatology expert, but have good journal access so could look at any articles your expert friends suggest, although I would recommend directing them to the IPCC or perhaps the Royal Society.
chyland 3 years ago
Mr Chyland
do you believe the theory put forward by left888?
("Carbon dioxide makes a difference because the molecules stop some of the heat from leaving the Earth; it acts a bit like a blanket. So the world gradually gets warmer. This puts the natural balance out, very fast in geological time.")
I will check with my guy later in the week what he thinks if that is the science you believe.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
Mr Chyland
do you believe the theory put forward by left888?
("Carbon dioxide makes a difference because the molecules stop some of the heat from leaving the Earth; it acts a bit like a blanket. So the world gradually gets warmer. This puts the natural balance out, very fast in geological time.")
I will check with my guy later in the week what he thinks if that is the science you believe.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
I don't doubt that those Westminster parties (esp. the Tories) have jumped on the bandwagon.
I am just sceptical of your science (which I don't believe is actually happening). I don't want to appear really hostile - it's just that the Green party and Labour are most definitely using the environment and CO2 to increase taxes and I am appalled that they are actually decreasing personal freedom by this taxing and tries to pressurise car makers etc.
For personal and national freedom,
Vote UKIP.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
Voting UKIP is pointless. 90% of their website is dedicated to bashing the EU, which has made one of the greatest efforts to combat global warming than anyone else. What do they stand for other than that? The greens respect personal freedom far more than UKIP.
I'm usually a lib dem supporter, but Brian Paddick is far to illiberal and nowhere near green enough. I wish Siân the best of luck and hope UKIP loses its "seats" (even if both members have defected).
sneyton 3 years ago
Well that is their founding policy, silly (you hadn't noticed our main policy was EU-bashing?!)
Also with UKIP not believing in the global warming scam, it makes no sense not to bash the EU who are using "global warming" to tax people.
And I see no way in which the Greens respect personal freedom more than UKIP... UKIP's message IS that PERSONAL FREEDOM should PREVAIL!
UKIP has nearly 3 million voters and, Monsignor Sneyton, I advise you research a little more next time you write.
Vote UKIP.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
Well that is their founding policy, silly (you hadn't noticed our main policy was EU-bashing?!)
Also with UKIP not believing in the global warming scam, it makes no sense not to bash the EU who are using "global warming" to tax people.
And I see no way in which the Greens respect personal freedom more than UKIP... UKIP's message IS that PERSONAL FREEDOM should PREVAIL!
UKIP has nearly 3 million voters and, Monsignor Sneyton, I advise you research a little more next time you write.
Vote UKIP.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
And what have the EU actually DONE to stop "global warming" except force ministers and heads of government to fly around Europe for so many petty futile summits.
I suggest that they make rather a large contribution to "global warming" themselves!
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
What's the point of voting UKIP for the mayoral elections if all they want to do is pull us out of the EU? That's not decided ny the mayor of London, it was decided in 1975 by the public.
How would a UKIP mayor bring such world-renowned events like the Tour de France to London again with such nationalist views?
I want a free society, and that doesn't mean being in or out of the EU, that means repsecting the choices and dignity of all individuals.
sneyton 3 years ago
I want a greener and more liberal world. If that can only be achieved by taxing people driving stupidly large vehicles around within a 1km radius then they should pay more for the priviledge.
Whether you agree with the greenhouse effect or not, too much pollution makes the air grim and unhealthy. Using renewable energy will also save money importing oil, gas and coal from unstable "democracies". We have the greatest renewable opportunity in Europe: let's exploit that instead of Iraqis
sneyton 3 years ago
UKIP has hardly any policies on anything other than the EU and the environment. With regard to personal freedoms, the Greens support recreational drug use (which would kill off drug dealers overnight), they support rights for all minorities (gays, gender issues and ethnic minorities), and would give people the freedom to earn what they deserve.
Life's much more than profit and wealth. The planet is at risk here. The time to act passed long ago, we need a more sustaineble world today.
sneyton 3 years ago
You clearly haven't done your RESEARCH, YET AGAIN. I am tired of your stupid Green lies. If you'd bothered to even look at UKIP's policies on their website you'd see that there is a wide range.
Legalising cannabis and ecstasy is libertas gratia libertatis and will only ruin more lives. There is a point where freedom just becomes stupid and ecstasy is one of them.
UKIP supports cleaner environment as they want to rid cities of pollution. That is just common sense. See also UKIP's environ-policy
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
UKIP support also gay rights and are constitutionally bound not to discriminate against race.
It is not nationalistic and I would have thought that is would be too stupid even for the BNP to outlaw the Tour de France.
ust use your head before you rant so wrongly next time, monsigneur.
I think you'd find if you make polls that people don't want ecstasy legalising and if they knew the truth they'd want lower taxes and out of the expensive, legislating, useless EU!
Only one way. Vote UKIP.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
The green party is hardly extremely pro-EU. I support entry into the eurozone and such, but the greens don't.
Anyway, UKIP has lost most of its support. The UKIP bubble has burst. In opinion polls you keep drifting between 0% and 1%, whereas the greens drift between 2% and 5%. The fascist BNP has more support than you.
3 million people may have supported your views on Europe, but you won't get that at this election.
sneyton 3 years ago
Clearly. That is why UKIP self-professedly isn't putting effort into these upcoming local and mayoral elections - they will not be able to change anything about the EU.
But I think you'll find that we will be returning higher numbers than ever before in 2009 and 2010 (Gens and Euros) as membership rises and people lose more and more faith in parties like the Greens who support the EU.
And as far as I am concerned the Nazi BNP can go to hell. At least you Greens are racially accountable.
HarrisMorgan9 3 years ago
I'm not a green, i'm a liberal that dislikes Brian Paddick and was supporting Siân. Your vote in London has almost completely diminished, even so shortly after the EU treaty thing and some so angry (allegedly) with the EU.
Well done to the greens for coming 4th. It's just a shame that the BNP managed to get on the assembly.
As for UKIP, I can imagine a heavy loss in representation in 2009 and I hope the liberals (and greens) get more seats then.
sneyton 3 years ago