Indiana State? If so, your procedure is correct. I've been in that sim. You ever jump in front of the screen when the students are in deep concentration?? Haha.
And to help answer the others about the gen starts etc. Newer model King Airs do have different start procedures and limits...each gen is left on after their respective engine is started...they are starter/generators. The first one recharges the battery for the other start. And we alternate which engine is started first
@isuav8r234 Yeah. One of the guys I was flying with in a private 350 accidentally turned the R GEN switch off after start thinking he was in a 200. Quickly realized his mistake when he noticed his voltage was too low to fire the other engine. Had I been an inspector and not his right-hand man, I would've failed him.
@mikalization It's practically the same procedure, but with a Beech, you'd most likely be using External Power to start..I was simply using the Battery to start.
@cdnavi8r if you were using the battery to start, when you started the left engine, should you not have reset the generator on the right engine as you introduced the fuel into the left?
@unapro3 You can reset the right Gen once fuel is introduced. But keep in mind, it is important to keep your eyes on the engine gauges as a hot start, hung start, or any kind of failure can happen. Plus it is important not to remove your hand from the ignition switches, as if any of the above mentioned starts, you need to change position from Starter/Ignition to starter only to keep cranking the engine, in the event of a fire. You will generally have enough battery power to keep the Generator..
@cdnavi8r I think you need to ask your instructor (or have a look in the FM) that on a battery start you should have the generator on as you introduce fuel. It is called a cross geny start. If you have trouble keeping your eyes on the gauges and manipulating the switches then you need more practice. Having said that the later model B200 allow you to leave the geny on.
@unapro3 I am the instructor, I know the Ops Manual, I know the FTM. I wouldn't be teaching it if I was doing it wrong. I was taught how do start the engines this way, and that's how I will teach it. Different King Air's (ie) newer King Air's have different procedures.
I love vids like this. I fly a Cessna 172 and I didn't think I'll ever make it to a King Air, but its great to see what it would be like. Cool vid! Thx!
Well, I don't know of why you heard 20%. After turning on the Generator I check the generator voltage of 28Volts. Then turn it back off to start the left engine. I also say 50% which is when I turn off the starter of that engine. I hope that helps and clarifies.
The load on the generator is too large when the starter begins turning. On older turboprops, the starter first spinning up could shear the generator drive clean off - very expensive.
If your bat is low, run the generator to charge the bat for a bit, then turn it off and start with the bat.
@festusthefiend but the king air uses a starter generator? I've just finished my king air type rating in europe and I wasnt told to switch of the RH gen after charging up the battery?
I remember this from older Cheyennes, and I seem to remember this being the case with the B200. I suspect more modern types like the 350 have automatic protections against overloading a generator while starting the other engine, this would not be hard to implement. Perhaps you can find a mechanic or someone very familiar with your King airs systems and ask. If you could also post the answer, i would be really grateful. Regards!
Turns out we were both right! The newer king airs have a system allowing cross generator start, however the older models dont, so you are required to charge the battery after starting R/H engine, disconect the gen and battery start the L/H engine.
Doesnt really surprise me, but good to hear. The materials cost for such a system would probably be around 5€.. Of course, getting it certified would cost a hell of a lot more, but I think it would be worth it to save you from doing several thousands worth of damage by frying the starter/gen because you're not concentrating and maybe forget to do the start by the checklist.
@SaulBasley Hey, I just had a short look round, I actually found procedures for the C90, you can check the difference your own list: Engine Start (Battery) R ign/start: On R IGN ON: Check illuminated Stable N1 > 12%: Wait R condition lever: Low idle ITT and N1: Monitor (1090°C max., rise in 10 s) R oil pressure: Check R condition lever: High idle Wait: N1 = 51% R ign/start: Off R generator: Reset, On Charge battery: Load = 0,5, max. 5 min.
i've seen in manuals that you'll wait for 12% N1 to get the levers to lo idle... is there any difference between that and 15% N1 as you do? It would be different engines right???
The most notable difference between Kings and Queens are the engines. Queens used Piston power whereas the Kings have used the almighty PT-6 turboprop by Pratt & Whitney since the getgo. Just like the aerocommander vs turbocommander which used garretts by honeywell.
the queen air is thought to be a king air. Check the windows on the airplane. if they are circular/oval the airplane is pressurized which is a king air. The queen air has square windows.. that is the only thing if have found to tell them apart. Any others?
I've noticed that king airs seem to be started from the right engine first, is this for the same reason as my twin piston as thats where the battery is mounted?
That and the fact that the entrance door is located on the left of the aircraft. Imagine starting the left first, and you need to you run outside because of a door light or you forgot chocks or a pax needs off/on. you'd have to shut down and restart again.
Only small piston training aircrafts need keys. King Air's a turboprop aircrafts, which with a complex ignition system use air to spin the compressors inside to engine while the ignition system in connected to a switch. Once the engine is running the plane automatically creates its own spark through the ignition system.
Well, if he's dumb enough to try that, engines have to be started by checklist. Specific things need to be turned on, in order, before engines can be started..from there, you need to open a hangar door, which has an alarm. Anyone DUMB enough to try, deserves to be put in prison.
Hey, I do (almost) the very same procedure when starting the King Air in FSX. I always use it, and I have the checklist for realism. Do you have any suggestions about the condition lever settings and the propeller control settings during different situations?. (Takeoff, Cruise, Landing) Thank You!
During start as you can tell 90% of the time, the condition levers are left in low idle. On a hot summer day you want the Air Conditioning on, you'll have to have them in high idle for a higher N1%. Takeoff, cruise, descent, landing, generally low idle. For full reverse, you'll have to push them to full forward. Prop levers have different settings based on different power and cruise settings, climb is full power with 1900 RPM. Cruise is max power or enderance cruise with 1800 or 1700 RPM.
Well, if I was teaching a crew, I would be taking them step by step. I've been teaching in one of these for 3 years. I'm simply demonstrating for simmers on youtube. If I was to make a tutorial. It would be much slower. Trust me.
So, since you are quite expert, I would like ask you what do you think about a strange "hot" start up in a movie. I'm not able to understand what is happened and if there is some damage.
You find the movie here in youtube if you search "Lancair Propjet hot start ".
The Lancair and King Air have different types of Turbine engines. The King Air has a PT6A-41(42) while the lancair has a Walter M601E-11 turbine.
The King Air has a condition lever which you can introduce fuel at 15% N1.
The Lancair has no condition lever. It uses an isolation valve to control the fuel. That's when the starter is engaged, the fuel is automatically introduced to the engine at a certain % N1. Hence why you have the "Hot Handle"
we put the number two engine on high idle when the generator is on so we can recharge the battery quicker. On landing we push the condition lever to high idle for maximum reverse.
what about take off what is the condition lever set to hi or low, or is landing the only time you guys set them BOTH to high?. Just wondering cos i got the areoworx B200 for Fs2004 lol, cheers. oh yer and during flight what happens with the prop feathering levers are they used much?, thanks again.
Take off, low idle. We go full forward at the final approach fix so when we go around or full reverse, we're ready. During flight you should not feather the props unless the engine is dead. You should have the autofeather option on up till cruise. You're welcome, thanks for the question
If you have a King Air learn something from the video and keep your hand on the condition lever during the start until the ITT stabalizes. It's the only way to prevent a hot start.
I thought this was a real aircraft at first but I noticed the engines seem 2 respond to quickly 2 the condition levers and it was a little too quiet 4 a real aircraft. It's still fairly realistic though. Was the left engine start up a generator assisted start?
Yes and no. Once the second engine has started we bring the condition lever to high idle then turn on the right generator since the battery is on the right side. Let the battery recharge a little then turn the generator off. Then we go ahead and start the left engine. We don't want the generator(s) to be on during start because the starters can crank up to 1000 amps of power and the generators are rated to 300 amps.
Gen 2 can come on safely during start of 1as long as you use the battery to turn the eninge for at least one second prior to turing on #2 generator. It will turn #1engine must faster than the battery will alone.
the setting outside is set to dusk. Which makes it dark in the sim, till I turn on the battery switch which then illuminates the cockpit because of part of my cockpit flows, I turn on the overhead light knob and Light Master switch.
what an ugly plane. I don't like it. I don't like it at all.
aseglkj 4 months ago
do you have the kln90?
ORMO1993 10 months ago
@cdnavi8r
Indiana State? If so, your procedure is correct. I've been in that sim. You ever jump in front of the screen when the students are in deep concentration?? Haha.
And to help answer the others about the gen starts etc. Newer model King Airs do have different start procedures and limits...each gen is left on after their respective engine is started...they are starter/generators. The first one recharges the battery for the other start. And we alternate which engine is started first
isuav8r234 10 months ago
@isuav8r234 Yeah. One of the guys I was flying with in a private 350 accidentally turned the R GEN switch off after start thinking he was in a 200. Quickly realized his mistake when he noticed his voltage was too low to fire the other engine. Had I been an inspector and not his right-hand man, I would've failed him.
TheCriticalCanadian 6 months ago
You are all wet! I have a lot of time in these aircraft, since 1978 and nothing you did is right! TW
fastman5999 10 months ago
Is this a simulator? It doesn't seem as loud as our 90 during start
pdw1116 1 year ago
@pdw1116 I've mentioned before in the comments section that it is in fact a sim.
cdnavi8r 1 year ago
@cdnavi8r I see it now, I didnt take the time to look through all the comments, very accurate simulator
pdw1116 1 year ago
Quite a beautiful aircraft. You have a privlage to fly this aircraft!
natebot321 1 year ago
is this the same procedures as a beech 1900
mikalization 1 year ago
@mikalization It's practically the same procedure, but with a Beech, you'd most likely be using External Power to start..I was simply using the Battery to start.
cdnavi8r 1 year ago
@cdnavi8r if you were using the battery to start, when you started the left engine, should you not have reset the generator on the right engine as you introduced the fuel into the left?
unapro3 1 year ago
@unapro3 You can reset the right Gen once fuel is introduced. But keep in mind, it is important to keep your eyes on the engine gauges as a hot start, hung start, or any kind of failure can happen. Plus it is important not to remove your hand from the ignition switches, as if any of the above mentioned starts, you need to change position from Starter/Ignition to starter only to keep cranking the engine, in the event of a fire. You will generally have enough battery power to keep the Generator..
cdnavi8r 1 year ago
@unapro3....off until you turn the starter/ignition to off at 50%, then reset both generators and turn them on.
cdnavi8r 1 year ago
@cdnavi8r I think you need to ask your instructor (or have a look in the FM) that on a battery start you should have the generator on as you introduce fuel. It is called a cross geny start. If you have trouble keeping your eyes on the gauges and manipulating the switches then you need more practice. Having said that the later model B200 allow you to leave the geny on.
unapro3 1 year ago
@unapro3 I am the instructor, I know the Ops Manual, I know the FTM. I wouldn't be teaching it if I was doing it wrong. I was taught how do start the engines this way, and that's how I will teach it. Different King Air's (ie) newer King Air's have different procedures.
cdnavi8r 1 year ago
I love vids like this. I fly a Cessna 172 and I didn't think I'll ever make it to a King Air, but its great to see what it would be like. Cool vid! Thx!
PirateSygnal 1 year ago
also, another question.. after starting the right engine, when you say waiting for 20% after clearing master warning, what do you mean??? :p
kikesdonalds 2 years ago
Well, I don't know of why you heard 20%. After turning on the Generator I check the generator voltage of 28Volts. Then turn it back off to start the left engine. I also say 50% which is when I turn off the starter of that engine. I hope that helps and clarifies.
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
@cdnavi8r Why is it better to start from battery rather than starting with cross-gen electricity? Thanks.
lucserre 1 year ago
@cdnavi8r For the second engine, why is it better to start from battery (again) rather than start with the first engine's gen (cross-gen)? Thanks.
lucserre 1 year ago
@lucserre
The load on the generator is too large when the starter begins turning. On older turboprops, the starter first spinning up could shear the generator drive clean off - very expensive.
If your bat is low, run the generator to charge the bat for a bit, then turn it off and start with the bat.
Hope this helps.
festusthefiend 1 year ago
@festusthefiend but the king air uses a starter generator? I've just finished my king air type rating in europe and I wasnt told to switch of the RH gen after charging up the battery?
SaulBasley 1 year ago
@SaulBasley
I remember this from older Cheyennes, and I seem to remember this being the case with the B200. I suspect more modern types like the 350 have automatic protections against overloading a generator while starting the other engine, this would not be hard to implement. Perhaps you can find a mechanic or someone very familiar with your King airs systems and ask. If you could also post the answer, i would be really grateful. Regards!
festusthefiend 1 year ago
@festusthefiend Sorry about the delay getting back to you!
Turns out we were both right! The newer king airs have a system allowing cross generator start, however the older models dont, so you are required to charge the battery after starting R/H engine, disconect the gen and battery start the L/H engine.
SaulBasley 1 year ago
@SaulBasley Thanks for getting back!
Doesnt really surprise me, but good to hear. The materials cost for such a system would probably be around 5€.. Of course, getting it certified would cost a hell of a lot more, but I think it would be worth it to save you from doing several thousands worth of damage by frying the starter/gen because you're not concentrating and maybe forget to do the start by the checklist.
festusthefiend 1 year ago
festusthefiend 1 year ago
i've seen in manuals that you'll wait for 12% N1 to get the levers to lo idle... is there any difference between that and 15% N1 as you do? It would be different engines right???
kikesdonalds 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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BushBlewUpTwinTowers 2 years ago
The most notable difference between Kings and Queens are the engines. Queens used Piston power whereas the Kings have used the almighty PT-6 turboprop by Pratt & Whitney since the getgo. Just like the aerocommander vs turbocommander which used garretts by honeywell.
jackdomin 2 years ago
the queen air is thought to be a king air. Check the windows on the airplane. if they are circular/oval the airplane is pressurized which is a king air. The queen air has square windows.. that is the only thing if have found to tell them apart. Any others?
urbantomcatburban22r 2 years ago
Congratulations cdnavi8r on you gracious and patient approach to internet communication. If only there were more of that out there!
Nice video, too.
sgabriel 2 years ago 2
can i use king air start procedure to my queen air??
burnok100 2 years ago
Unlikely as a Queen Air is a piston aircraft. A King Air is a turboprop. Different procedures.
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
ARE YOU A PILOT??
burnok100 2 years ago
I've noticed that king airs seem to be started from the right engine first, is this for the same reason as my twin piston as thats where the battery is mounted?
SaulBasley 2 years ago
That is correct. The battery is placed on the right side, therefor quicker for the generator to charge the battery for the left engine to start.
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
Correct, and also that the door is on the left side and makes for easier loading while the engines are being started.
chillbrian 2 years ago
@cdnavi8r
That and the fact that the entrance door is located on the left of the aircraft. Imagine starting the left first, and you need to you run outside because of a door light or you forgot chocks or a pax needs off/on. you'd have to shut down and restart again.
KSharp320 2 years ago
Is this a flight simulator? Sounds kind of fake.
jmr604 2 years ago
Yes it is a simulator
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
Cool.. wish I had one of those in my basement.
jmr604 2 years ago
don't we all..lol
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
Great video!
SGadd87 2 years ago
how come there is no key needed???
jjjazzycraig 2 years ago
Only small piston training aircrafts need keys. King Air's a turboprop aircrafts, which with a complex ignition system use air to spin the compressors inside to engine while the ignition system in connected to a switch. Once the engine is running the plane automatically creates its own spark through the ignition system.
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
Ok but just a quick question, does this mean if someone manages to break into the door, he can start the plane? Is the door the only security?
xplanevideo 2 years ago
Well, if he's dumb enough to try that, engines have to be started by checklist. Specific things need to be turned on, in order, before engines can be started..from there, you need to open a hangar door, which has an alarm. Anyone DUMB enough to try, deserves to be put in prison.
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
Alright, thanks for the info.
xplanevideo 2 years ago
Nice simulator
krogen42hull198 2 years ago
Thanks
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
I second that it looks like a lot of hard work went into making it
AppledoreNews 2 years ago
And one more thing, in the checklist I have, the N1 before starting is only 12%..Is it just the same? Like does 3% make any difference?
omar2726 2 years ago
Well, the checklist does say 12-15%. The condition levers can be advanced anywhere in that range when the N1 is stable.
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
Hey, I do (almost) the very same procedure when starting the King Air in FSX. I always use it, and I have the checklist for realism. Do you have any suggestions about the condition lever settings and the propeller control settings during different situations?. (Takeoff, Cruise, Landing) Thank You!
omar2726 2 years ago
During start as you can tell 90% of the time, the condition levers are left in low idle. On a hot summer day you want the Air Conditioning on, you'll have to have them in high idle for a higher N1%. Takeoff, cruise, descent, landing, generally low idle. For full reverse, you'll have to push them to full forward. Prop levers have different settings based on different power and cruise settings, climb is full power with 1900 RPM. Cruise is max power or enderance cruise with 1800 or 1700 RPM.
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
Whoa. Thanks for the quick reply! Real useful info. Gonna take that in mind. Thanks!
omar2726 2 years ago
mmmmm flight instructor seen not to be your job. too fast.
amicizia123 2 years ago
Well, if I was teaching a crew, I would be taking them step by step. I've been teaching in one of these for 3 years. I'm simply demonstrating for simmers on youtube. If I was to make a tutorial. It would be much slower. Trust me.
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
Ok, thank you :-)
So, since you are quite expert, I would like ask you what do you think about a strange "hot" start up in a movie. I'm not able to understand what is happened and if there is some damage.
You find the movie here in youtube if you search "Lancair Propjet hot start ".
Please.
amicizia123 2 years ago
The Lancair and King Air have different types of Turbine engines. The King Air has a PT6A-41(42) while the lancair has a Walter M601E-11 turbine.
The King Air has a condition lever which you can introduce fuel at 15% N1.
The Lancair has no condition lever. It uses an isolation valve to control the fuel. That's when the starter is engaged, the fuel is automatically introduced to the engine at a certain % N1. Hence why you have the "Hot Handle"
Hope this helps.
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
ok understood.
But when turbine has shut off and after 15' you start up, yoiu must ventilate it for some seconds. In this case no ventilation = hot start?
My question was : what is happened right there? seen that torque was too high (left gauge) and not ITT (right gauge).
mmmmmm.....i'm really curious
amicizia123 2 years ago
The top left gauge was ITT (Interstage Turbine Temperature) where as the right gauge was N1%.
The left needle spiked indicating a hot start.
cdnavi8r 2 years ago
Wow, I had no idea there is so much to do when starting one of these!!!! Thanks for posting the video!
cjnielsen1447 2 years ago
i know the sycophaser prevents fatigue... ur not supposed to adjust the prop conditioning when it;s on right?
ooganblat 3 years ago
ok y do you guys put it in high idle on start and do you put it in high idle for landing
rockcity94 3 years ago
we put the number two engine on high idle when the generator is on so we can recharge the battery quicker. On landing we push the condition lever to high idle for maximum reverse.
cdnavi8r 3 years ago
what about take off what is the condition lever set to hi or low, or is landing the only time you guys set them BOTH to high?. Just wondering cos i got the areoworx B200 for Fs2004 lol, cheers. oh yer and during flight what happens with the prop feathering levers are they used much?, thanks again.
Iamfukenripped 3 years ago
Take off, low idle. We go full forward at the final approach fix so when we go around or full reverse, we're ready. During flight you should not feather the props unless the engine is dead. You should have the autofeather option on up till cruise. You're welcome, thanks for the question
cdnavi8r 3 years ago
DOES THE 200'S USE REVERSE?
rockcity94 3 years ago
On landing, yes.
cdnavi8r 3 years ago
If you have a King Air learn something from the video and keep your hand on the condition lever during the start until the ITT stabalizes. It's the only way to prevent a hot start.
cpberg1 3 years ago
I realize that, in training we are told to do this. This was simply a demonstration video. I would also have a copilot calling out the gauges.
cdnavi8r 3 years ago
ok i see it jhey u guyz check out my vidz plzzz n comment
rockcity94 3 years ago
is this real or a sim cuz theres no like gps or coms
rockcity94 3 years ago
GPS and comms are to the right of the power levers.
cdnavi8r 3 years ago
I thought this was a real aircraft at first but I noticed the engines seem 2 respond to quickly 2 the condition levers and it was a little too quiet 4 a real aircraft. It's still fairly realistic though. Was the left engine start up a generator assisted start?
muz06 3 years ago
Yes and no. Once the second engine has started we bring the condition lever to high idle then turn on the right generator since the battery is on the right side. Let the battery recharge a little then turn the generator off. Then we go ahead and start the left engine. We don't want the generator(s) to be on during start because the starters can crank up to 1000 amps of power and the generators are rated to 300 amps.
cdnavi8r 3 years ago
Gen 2 can come on safely during start of 1as long as you use the battery to turn the eninge for at least one second prior to turing on #2 generator. It will turn #1engine must faster than the battery will alone.
cpberg1 3 years ago
did u build this?
737NGFO 3 years ago
Nope. Frasca simulator.
cdnavi8r 3 years ago
the setting outside is set to dusk. Which makes it dark in the sim, till I turn on the battery switch which then illuminates the cockpit because of part of my cockpit flows, I turn on the overhead light knob and Light Master switch.
cdnavi8r 3 years ago
What do you mean it's dusk? Don't you mean the lights aren't on in the sim.
FirebirdAirshowGuy 3 years ago
you must place your video on mid. i dont see anything, is this a 200 or 90 series..??
zn0c18016 3 years ago
Just keep watching, few few seconds are dark because it's dusk and the interior lights aren't on. It's a B200.
cdnavi8r 3 years ago