Dialogue on Sexuality & Male Vulnerability

[Thunderharald]

I think this notion that Anthony presented is recognized publicly. Some bragging is alright and perhaps even expected but there is a thin line that can be crossed if a person brags too much. When this very thin and fragile line is crossed most people in the conversation can feel the dark and sinister place from which this need arouse. Most people then proceed by unspokenly disapprove of that person. I never really thought about how harsh it must be to be dismissed like that. Thank you Anthony

[volkermuller55]

Man she just pushed you out of the conversation and drifted off into her own ramble. Annoying

[ActualRealLife]

It doesn't surprise me that a necrophiliac would make the claim that people would ideally have sex with objects if they associated them with sex, as this is the mentality common with those into fetishes. This is NOT normative however, as human sexuality is typically driven by a deeper fascination with other people as beings with emotions and a life experience.

Also, I'm surprised it took so long for Peterson to acknowledge Antons point. She was completely off the mark with her analysis.

[KennyReddwooddforest]

Haha, Sigmund Freud believed that women envied the penis. He was wrong. Do you have a dog? I hear a dog in the background. Maybe it has to do with the microphone. Is your wife a professor of philosophy, too? I see men as sexual objects with sexy bodies. I can't relate to the statistics you talk about. But I am not an average woman, either. I like men who are highly intelligent, that alone I find sexy. I don't dress up for men. I am a nerd. But, yeah, I have bragged about my dildo. I admit it.

[369dc]

ur gf?

[mickGPN]

I think you're absolutely right that patriarchy is ultimately a way for men to hide their vulnerability through a kind of numbness - although by this stage the fear has been so transmuted into aggression that it's almost unrecognisable. So, it's good that you raise this issue, but most people haven't even started to come to terms with the obvious stuff yet, so I can't see you getting very far... apart from in the unusually intelligent environment of the comments section of this video :-)

[de97531]

nice discussion, lol, interesting topic

[photent]

The idea that we treat the male body as a machine is very interesting. It reminds me of this article: realitysandwich. com/node/49048

The male writer gives an account of how he's developed his skill to control coming till his partner has been satisfied. He really is an example of what you're talking about. Maybe the mystery of the male sex will come back into the scene if we find out that ejaculation isn't necessary for orgasm. This would remove the 'output' of the machine metaphor.

[MetaCraken]

Lol Anton, you shout.

[CosmicSeaman]

Interesting conversation. My theory is that males strive to satisfy (big simplification) the need for respect/power, and sexual needs. Males are constantly in conflict with other males in the need for social respect/dominance. In the quest for sexual gratification, the best way to dominate is to fully objectify women to the point where they are nothing but objects of desire.

[DannyPhantomBeast]

I've never met a guy who honestly believes that women are objects.

I've become skeptical of the concept of objectification.

And what's wrong with a guy numerically measuring his arousal in relation to specific women?

It's almost like a demonization of men's arousal or enjoyment thereof.

[WRF713]

If it helps any, I understand what you're saying. I also agree with you completely.

[Dedgurlsingblu]

Don't know if anyone noted this, but consider masturbation has become normalized for men in western society, as in something that every male just does, while the so called "sexual revolution" only occurred in the sixties and seventies making sex and masturbation okay for women. Women still battle with the notion that sexual pleasure makes them dirty, so bragging about masturbation for them isn't about their bodies being sexed, but announcing that there is nothing wrong with them enjoying sex.

[Orville9999]

also, according to your female cohost, having and broadcasting an opinion of women a man finds attractive is an "entitlement" and only attractive men are allowed to have them.

I call bullshit.

[Orville9999]

Read the myth of male power. Women are sex objects. Men are success objects.

[f1ghtclub2k3]

however Professor there is something to be said for the non ejaculating male wherever they maybe I mean I havent got off on eevry single sexual encounter I ahve had but that really takes nothing away from the pleasure of the process another personal thing is sometimes I purposely do not get off I stop before hand in order to "take back some of the power" so to speak...I dont know why I do this but let me tell you my g/f gets very anxious about herself when I do this as if she is wrong....etc

[f1ghtclub2k3]

I have wrote some aphrorisms on this and it gets very touchy because there is a natural domination of the man engaged in sex with the woman as is known conciously and unconciously the domination also comes out in the conversation of communication...the woman represents the space the void pleasure the male represents the hunt the catch the kill (penetration) etc...domination is part of the natural bond between man and woman...sexually and thus also in life communication etc.

[f1ghtclub2k3]

@f1ghtclub2k3 Professor Got it...I get it anyway it must be a male thing I feel the same way I think we all do... no dude is bragging about banging a doll however I have heard females get frustrated about not orgasaming from this guy or that and they say that they would rather use the vibrator...etc...the Woman orgasm is a mystery I feel like my g/f gets off randomly whether I am trying or not....etc...its a real mind thing with woman theres a balance between body awareness and mind narratives

[theDracoIX]

WHO WEARS THE PANTS IN THIS HOUSE? THE ONE ON THE LEFT OR THE ONE ON THE RIGHT?!

[socrates856]

@theDracoIX Both? Neither? Who cares?

[socrates856]

Just a comment on the 0 percent and easy and all that for males. There is a condition known as retarded or delayed ejaculation that a certain percentage of men have. Basically these are men who have problems having an orgasm.

Now culturally that's taboo, so yeah there are guys faking it. But that exactly belongs in the vulnerability category. To be able to actually be frank.

[InevitableComedown]

(cont.) naturally, what i am saying reflects a certain patriarchal attitude or exoticization of woman, but this is simply the reality of the current regime of gender relations, and it is the result of concrete material processes related to the economy. This type of Freudo-Marxian insight is critical to understanding the construction of sexual difference in society - it has less to do with biological difference in my view, although this obviously was a contributing factor way back when.

[InevitableComedown]

(cont.) as you (Corey) alluded to by talking about the regularity and machine-like process of male sexuality, there is a kind of predictability or rationalization of male sexuality while the female, traditionally excluded from the industrial labor process, remains a sort of 'untamed' or 'wild' force...her sexuality/orgasm is unpredictable, even destabilizing/threatening to the established order. i think this is what contributes to the 'mysteriousness' you (Corey) speak of in the video (cont...)

[InevitableComedown]

i still think, as i commented on the previous video, that looking at the work of someone like Marcuse would contribute a lot to this notion of 'de-sexing'. the argument would be much stronger if you incorporate the relation between de-eroticizing and the demands of the labor process. the differences between (traditional) male and female sexuality and (traditional) male and female roles in the labor process is not a coincidence...i think, along with Marcuse, that they are related (cont...)

[TWITfromURANUS]

You two are cute... it's not necessarily relevant but it is true ¦:¬)

[cdm0014]

this was very interesting

[CorbeezeJD]

How can you say the male has been "desexed" in the age of Twilight.

Then again the age of Twilight sort of only applies to little girls.

[CorbeezeJD]

Lol I've talked about my fleshlight but have never bragged about it.

[EuphoricImpact]

I really can not grasp the thought of experts in sexuality and gender studies. Unless you are speaking of overlords pontificating about indoctrinated people who live life like an album skipping while in revolution.

Okay I had to type that...better now.

[hyperseauton]

"heteronormative culture" what does this term mean?

[hyperseauton]

Professor:

Look, dude, it is really not that difficult: Science alone can say something about these issues, you are just theorizing and just because it seems valid to you it must be valid. No, you need to do some testing.

[CityzenJane]

"people prefer..." - paging dr. freud! GEEEZ these are the people who are doing all the serious theorizing about all people?

(can't we just concede we are each a VERY unique special snowflake....)

[thesunshon]

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS!

SMILES FROM THE SUN !

PEACE!

[jogayot]

women are a clock, men are the key which winds it...

[CityzenJane]

@jogayot unless maybe the guy is gay or the girl is lesbian...

[jogayot]

@CityzenJane no, it doesn't matter if you turn the key in the clock or clock around the key. what matters is the winding...

[7ropz]

"if a guy tries to be sexy is almost a joke" thats the fun of it :) sexuallity needs to be fun :)

cheers from brazil

[shameoncanada]

I think the female body became a sexual 'object' due to the evolutionary value of her reproductive potential, which is of course completely to do with sex. The male body was never under the same evolutionary pressure to become viewed as having high reproductive value.

[MarmaladeINFP]

@shameoncanada That is an interesting way to look at it. The female body is objectified because the female body has more objective value in terms of reproductive value. In evolutionary terms, men have less objective value because a single man can impregnate many women. And once a woman is pregnant the male who impregnated her is no longer absolutely necessary because any male can act as the father of that child.

[shameoncanada]

Great video.

[HigherPlanes]

"Necrophilia. Everybody loves a dummy." That made me giggle.

[egoistorms]

up to 14:12 :

on males bragging about "hitting it" as a cover for insecurity :

is there bragging that is not a cover for insecurity?

maybe the de-sexing of males, if such exists, has to do with pregnancy. Fred might bring up the phrase "high stakes". seems that sex would theoretically be higher stakes for a female simply due to the possibilities for pregnancy.

thanks for sharing.

[zarkoff45]

I wouldn't be that embarrassed about using a sex 'bot. In fact I look forward to the day they can make a good one. It's just another facet of porn-shaming. I think we need to get over that to fight the people who are saying things like "porn scars your mind":

watch?v=5RCKA91nSTE

I am older and I don't have as much at stake as a young man.

[Fensterplaetzchen]

2 - Also to the "do they like gadgets" question: 20 years ago this was surely true but today where everybody uses lots of tech like smart phones, the roles come closer. 20 years ago there where more or less no woman on the internet, because it was a scientist/university information tube. There where no female nerds. Today, the broad mass recognises that it's usefull to know your way around a computer and suddently people call themselfs nerds. There is a big "nerdfigher" comunity on youtube even.

[Fensterplaetzchen]

1 - I surely understand what you want to say but regardless of if the desexing statement should be supported or not, I don't see how this is some new developement. The roles are different because of the physical differences.

The more interesting question here, for me, is the basis of your last video on that topic, namely if woman don't like tech as much or if it's just society. And if woman and men had the same sexual organs in some sense (but women get pregnant), how would the roles differ?

[notonewhit]

"There is no such thing as a sexual relationship."

"Woman does not exist."

"Woman is a masquerade."

"We live in a plague of fantasy"

"Woman is a prop of fantasy."

"Love is when two lacks overlap". (con’t)

[notonewhit]

(con’t)These incendiary statements are not simply to be dismissed as mysogynist rants. From the perspective of the irreducible conflict of fantasy, all utopian dreams of romantic love, and the final completion of ones being, are symptomatic of the human condition itself. Relationships are not just hard; they are impossible.

[notonewhit]

(con’t)When one realizes this one cannot help but forgive the other for the occasionally disturbing your fantasy of who they are for you. The other is not even who they think they are for themselves. I think Lacan is essentially correct here. We are forever missing each other. Lacan defies summary here (or anywhere for that matter).

[sensorysalad]

i'm vulnerable cause any woman can crush my nuts with her hands....and for all the reasons you mentioned corey

[sensorysalad]

google ads was advertising 99$ bikini laser hair removal. V vs &

[xxxild]

Male vulnerability. That title grabbed my attention. I think I get what you're chasing here. I've been thinking about it a lot in the context of so much talk about "rape culture," here on youtube. I haven't formulated my thoughts on it but there is something about their vulnerability during sex I've been thinking about. It's a quality I can't express but have always been aware of and I find it attractive, certainly more than any physical characteristic or many of the abilities they may possess.

[MickeyLWalker]

good discuss

[anonforuz]

idk if this is on topic, but I feel that guys are not valuable for being what they are, and only for what they can provide/produce. where women seem to be valuable for just being, and not providing very much.

[hyperseauton]

Sometimes I am glad that MrCropper and the AntonDialogueProject owned you.

[xy11xy]

Btw.. very animated, fun discussion. It's nice when you both bounce the ideas around.

[xy11xy]

The de-sexed male body, indeed. In cyberspace how do you "male"? My observation is that biological males form solidarity groups. It's laughable because males are really biological rivals.

Re objectification of women. Anthony Powell..murderer, madman, former YouTuber..observed and objectified his victim on YT. He spoke OF her, to other YouTuber's(male). He spoke ABOUT her to others, without any participation from her. Eventually, he killed her when reality encroached.

[MirageScience]

hmmm....



[2bsirius]

I have a feeling that in the near future some 'perfect women' will sell the blueprints for their "perfection" to some mega-corporations to be made into patented sex automata...

Let's hope that when the technology is perfected [pun intended], will the copyright then rest with the woman or with the mega corporation? Hmmmm.....I know what I think will happen.

The facial expressions of you both made the viewing lots more fun btw!

[miguelbinha]

@2bsirius Yes, it will happen!

[BardWanderer]

Hey Anton, here's a thought I had on your question of why male sex tools aren't prevalent or considered masculine. Coming at it from a Freudian angle, the reason guys like tools in the first place is because they are a sort of phallic extension of the self and symbols of dominate power. So perhaps most hetero men of our current cultural sexual psychology, while they want great sexual pleasure, simply can't use upon themselves what they might only be unconsciously regarding as a phallic object.

[namitsu1]

How about the difference in attractive qualities the sexes look for? I'd say that men are attracted more by appearance and less by personality, while vice versa for females. And I don't believe this is a new thing either. I believe it has always been like this.

[Xziz10ths]

the only thing that troubles men is having a small pecker. pornography and girls push this idea. its a hidden oppression that is making guys scared. it might also be eugenics to rid the small penis from human society. people would go on and say that it is "natural selection", evolution. or evolutionary psychology. No. It is the oppressive state and squeeze of the enviornmental system, government that is making girls have a masochistic mindset. They think they deserve a bigger penis.

[Xziz10ths]

@Xziz10ths

Therefore pain becomes self-inflicting and normal process for men and women. People need to just accept sexuality as a chemical process so that there will be no physical discrimination about sex. Even the height of a man seems to be a issue for men but not women. The double standard is shining and its not even funny anymore because women are really changing their fascistic mindset about men.

[brokennarcissist]

So male sexuality is disempowering?

And does the male gaze not simply create more distance for males from their sexuality as it is an act of becoming a removed observer?

[miguelbinha]

Guys, you rock!

[miguelbinha]

Yes, we are really concerned that we can't pleasure women! That is , I think, the biggest male concern which, in a lot of cases culminates in the almost pathological (because hidden) need to collect conquests." Will I be able to make this next one have an orgasm?" Or, in the antipode, " I daren't go over there and speak to her..What if she is one of those that requires a misterious cartography to navigate?"

[tattooskin72]

I'm trying to figure out her expression at about 14:00 in...

I don't think it's that men don't care about giving a woman an orgasm... it's that in general, women do not talk about what they really want or need. When I have talked to my female clients, I always hear them talk about how displeased they with their partners. So, I ask if they talk to the partner... almost never have they talked to their partners.

And the male orgasm is more than just shooting out some sperm. You can orgasm w/o

[tattooskin72]

@tattooskin72 ever ejaculating. Though I guess in "heteronormative" terms, that wouldn't make sense.

People just need to communicate a hell of a lot better about sex.

[leezus83]

great video guys.

[equallyeasilyfuqyou]

also, i don't mind being a sexual object for women...i think it's pretty hot. :) 

[Orville9999]

objectification is just a convoluted way of trying to make men ashamed for finding women physically attractive, or being aroused by a womans physically appearance.

[DiwataMan]

You went all out on the christmas decorations I see. My body oozes sex by the way.

[equallyeasilyfuqyou]

me vulnerable? i'm way too callous for that.