It's too late for palm now. The only way they can come back is android or sell web os. They can't compete with iOS and Android. I love my iPhone 4 Kevin.
I completely came to the same conclusion a little while ago with Palm using Android. My thoughts were they could go the HTC route and design their own UI and preloaded apps that are customized for business. Just a suggestion to nudge them back in Blackberry's arena.
I think I heard on the news recently that Hewlett Packard just bought Palm, so we will see what direction HP goes with this property. I can forsee the iPaqs really getting some new features and iPaqs becoming more prominent. HP is a tech field major player, so I can imagine Palm can be revitalized.
Let's face reality, the internet is too slow for WEBOS in the Mobile sense. All these services are just things that can be often be ruined by poor coverage. That said software needs to evolve if the product doesn't take leaps forward both from a Hardware and a Software standpoint you're buying something that's outdated as soon as you buy it. Both Palm and Blackberry have this problem. Kevin I think you'd probably agree the Social Networking, UI, Loc Based App software needs catching up.
Take a look at the iPhone, the Droid, and the HD2. What do they all have in common? Beautiful hardware. No one wants some cheap ass plastic pre and pixi, when there are better looking sturdier phones. HTC should definitely buy palm so they could continue making beautiful hardware while the palm folks can innovate the software so HTC will always be at the frontline unlike with android which is always running behind the current version
Palm needs to do 3 things to turn the ship around:
1. RELEASE A GSM VERSION WORLDWIDE - yes, GSM phones are the bread & butter, everything else is just lame changes and you missed the Centro upgraders on AT&T, remember...?
2. Get a BETTER HARDWARE (bigger, high-rez display, better camera, faster CPU, more memory etc), get it ready for Sep-Oct, well before the Christmas season - you missed Centro upgraders, don't miss your Pre people next Spring, when they start thinking about a new phone...
Kevin you're a smart guy but i strongly disagree with you on this, Palm needs to get bough by HTC. Palms greatest strength is not in their hardware but in their software. benefits for HTC are they will own Palms patents and thus be able to counter sue Apple for their recent law suit. Secondly, HTC will be the perfect hardware partner for Palm and HTC can finally have their own OS.
I work in the mobile industry and anyone who has been in mobile for the last 3 years has known that Palm HAS BEEN DEAD they shot themselves in the head when they removed the ONLY niche they still had when they decided to release there last two phones with no IR ports the palm was one of the last producers of devices with IR ports which is a huge deal to realtors who use this tech. to open lockboxes.
Imagine if Apple followed this thinking... Windows would be on your Macbook Pro right now. Not to mention that Apple wouldn't be where it is today. The easy decision isn't always the right one.
If Palm moved to Android, they would be basically giving up. They would have very little room for innovation, no long-term advantage, and no real way to become a major player again.
Phone hardware is quickly turning into a commodity, so giving up their OS is just putting more nails in the coffin. It's the "easy" decision, but not the right one.
About a year ago Palm's CEO said there was enough room in the smartphone space to support multiple players. I think it's unfortunate Palm's not one of them. As consumers we need as many viable options as possible to drive competition and keep prices and feature sets aggressive. I don't use a Pre but I hope they can turn things around. We just can't have Apple and Google pushing this trend forward in the consumer space. Maybe Nokia or Rim will acquire Palm.
I have used the Palm Pre and it is way better than a Blackberry or Windows mobile device. It feels very similar to the iPhone OS but that is probably because the Web OS had loads of ex Apple developers and engineers working on it. If their was no iPhone I would have a Pre.
Palm has been dead for years now. It's amazing that they're still around and kicking.
I think what they need to do is stop trying to reinvent the world themselves and look for that next handspring. That's really what pushed them to the front.
Look for that next handspring Palm. Maybe it's not some cell company maybe it's a tablet company they need to look for. WebOS on a tablet? BA
I really loved my PalmOS PDA devices. I was an early adopter and only put my Palm Tungsten aside shortly before I got my iPhone. It was an excellent mobile device, but Apple did really nail the mobile OS and App distribution model. It really has a forward thinking architecture and user interaction. It's really sad to see Palm fail in this sense. I still don't see the point of having desktop-class multi-taskting on a Mobile device. PalmOS 4 was very responsive due to it's single-tasking.
Yeah you're correct. The only operating systems Nokia uses is Symbian and Meego, which used to be called Maemo before it was merged with Intel's Moblin.
Agree, the company hasn't responded quick enough but dead?! It's all a bit premature really. There are still a huge number of people who want exactly what Palm offers. I still get the feeling that the iPhone is still in 'fad' phase.
That's the first thing that come to my mind as well. The guys at palm need to realize this as well and get with the android. Palm needs to wake up, put their pride aside and do what makes sense, else they will sink. You don't need to reinvent the wheel but role with it.
Sad to see Palm fail so hard in the smart phone (re: pda) space they were once so dominate in. Palm Pre/Pixi were just way too late out of the gates considering Palms head start.
Yes. I love Palm's innovations but the Pre is getting really dated, plastic and small display compared to competitors. The Pixi was a mistake because it is slower and does not have wifi. Palm needs to get on board with all carriers if they want to even become profitable.
Pretty much agree on everything you've laid out here. I believe this was Palm's attempt at pleasing the "casual" crowd and extending their reach into a new market share with their new OS. While they have that core OS that is solid and really great at multitasking, it's lacking the "wow" punch that Apps offer the iPhone and Android phones.
I also think that when people look at the Pre and Pixi they don't see a "web" phone. The screen is just too small and I think that too is a limiting factor.
Palm's OS HAD a lot of potential, but they didn't take full advantage of it when everyone was hyped about it. The card feature is the best way to multitask apps and they do it best.
I agree wholeheartedly with the need to license out the OS, but for the device itself, I can't live without the keyboard. I've tried typing on an IPod Touch and just can't do it. As for Palm being dead, I wouldn't say they are. I would've said they were dead when they took on Windows Mobile OS a few years ago, but they survived that.
Palm just isn't relevant in 2010 from an install-base. I don't know one person who has or wants a palm device. I'm not a particular iPhone fan, but they are everywhere you look.
Even if they go the HTC route, they'll struggle as they are not manufacturers. I'd sell and run now!
I'm not into the iPhone as most people are, but as an alternative, Palm doesn't even register with me. It's either a symbian or Adroid phone.
I wouldn't be surprised if they fold or bought within the next 2-5 yrs
I have a Pre' (It's not activated anymore) and it's a great device. I don't think it feels too plasticky either. It has good weight, a pretty good quality display, and a killer OS. I had all of the innards of a prized mobile phone. Ya sure, it was lacking applications but it had a twitter app and facebook, what else is there? I think Palm should have tried to strike a deal with AT&T or Verizon to begin with. If you're trying to make a comeback why go with another co. trying to make a comeback?
I couldn't disagree more about your final conclusion. The only reason that the Palm Pre wasn't more widely adopted was because of build quality. And the only reason anyone liked the Pre was because of the OS.
Why would they bother to scrap the one thing they had going for them? Their best bet would be to have HTC build their phones from here on out. The developers go where the users are and a sleek new phone with WebOS (launched HTC-style on every carrier) would win a lot of people over.
The problem is, all that latest smart phones are "me to" iphone clones, but not quite as good. Someone needs to do something revolutionary...as revolutionary as the original iphone. However, the bar is now so high, and the form-factor so limited, this is an enormous challenge.
I agree with parts of this kevin, but strongly disagree with what you said at the end. WebOS is the only reason I would but a Palm device, if they scrapped it and used android, why would I buy one of their phones over an HTC one? As someone who has owned an ipod touch and a G1, I would without a doubt say WebOS is the best mobile OS out there. And it is actually ahead of android in terms of gaming. I think palm's biggest problem is their hardware, I hope they end up licensing it out.
@eduardoc They will sell phones, I mean, iphone is selling because of the apps, developers are developing because of the money. Apps is insanely important. Do you want to compete with apple today, on a phone that is not as beautiful. You have to pay them more.. I think. Its the only path for palm.
in what way is the nexus one unique? that scroll ball it has or those unresponsive capacitive shortcuts on the screen? you must mean that you can actually be able to change the battery on the phone or the fact it uses an sd card rather than a hard drive. or the fact that it's uniquely similar to an iPhone like most touch phones out there on the market. google didn't make anything unique it's their version of an iPhone.
Nokia is not building Android devices, Kevin!
brownking 6 months ago
It's too late for palm now. The only way they can come back is android or sell web os. They can't compete with iOS and Android. I love my iPhone 4 Kevin.
orion2themax 10 months ago
Palm is a software company, not a hardware company, lol. They need new hardware, NOT software, lol.
highlander2107 1 year ago
I completely came to the same conclusion a little while ago with Palm using Android. My thoughts were they could go the HTC route and design their own UI and preloaded apps that are customized for business. Just a suggestion to nudge them back in Blackberry's arena.
TheJohnux 1 year ago
nokia doesnt make android phones.
solidunit 1 year ago
I think I heard on the news recently that Hewlett Packard just bought Palm, so we will see what direction HP goes with this property. I can forsee the iPaqs really getting some new features and iPaqs becoming more prominent. HP is a tech field major player, so I can imagine Palm can be revitalized.
Timothy2035 1 year ago
Let's face reality, the internet is too slow for WEBOS in the Mobile sense. All these services are just things that can be often be ruined by poor coverage. That said software needs to evolve if the product doesn't take leaps forward both from a Hardware and a Software standpoint you're buying something that's outdated as soon as you buy it. Both Palm and Blackberry have this problem. Kevin I think you'd probably agree the Social Networking, UI, Loc Based App software needs catching up.
nickcastproductions 1 year ago
Take a look at the iPhone, the Droid, and the HD2. What do they all have in common? Beautiful hardware. No one wants some cheap ass plastic pre and pixi, when there are better looking sturdier phones. HTC should definitely buy palm so they could continue making beautiful hardware while the palm folks can innovate the software so HTC will always be at the frontline unlike with android which is always running behind the current version
FlyingAero 1 year ago
This is idiotic, period.
The *ONLY* thing that would make me buy a Pre is WebOS, nothing else.
szlevi 1 year ago
Palm needs to do 3 things to turn the ship around:
1. RELEASE A GSM VERSION WORLDWIDE - yes, GSM phones are the bread & butter, everything else is just lame changes and you missed the Centro upgraders on AT&T, remember...?
2. Get a BETTER HARDWARE (bigger, high-rez display, better camera, faster CPU, more memory etc), get it ready for Sep-Oct, well before the Christmas season - you missed Centro upgraders, don't miss your Pre people next Spring, when they start thinking about a new phone...
szlevi 1 year ago
3. Hire few hundred full-time app devs and start churning out apps - seriously, it's easy, nothing else matters.
Again, dropping WebOS is your death sentence, pure and simple.
szlevi 1 year ago
Kevin you're a smart guy but i strongly disagree with you on this, Palm needs to get bough by HTC. Palms greatest strength is not in their hardware but in their software. benefits for HTC are they will own Palms patents and thus be able to counter sue Apple for their recent law suit. Secondly, HTC will be the perfect hardware partner for Palm and HTC can finally have their own OS.
tateblaze80 1 year ago
Dont you remember?
The Palm Pre is going to be an iPhone KILLER!
HAHAHA anyday now... it's going to kill the iPhone... the iPhone will be DOA ...Palm Pre = iPhone killer...
Yeah, it's dead.
sharkinfested 1 year ago
I work in the mobile industry and anyone who has been in mobile for the last 3 years has known that Palm HAS BEEN DEAD they shot themselves in the head when they removed the ONLY niche they still had when they decided to release there last two phones with no IR ports the palm was one of the last producers of devices with IR ports which is a huge deal to realtors who use this tech. to open lockboxes.
optoomistic 1 year ago
Palm using Android would be a terrible idea...they're too small to compete with what's out there already. Their only advantage is a unique platform.
halfnovice 1 year ago 3
Imagine if Apple followed this thinking... Windows would be on your Macbook Pro right now. Not to mention that Apple wouldn't be where it is today. The easy decision isn't always the right one.
rickkettner 1 year ago 3
If Palm moved to Android, they would be basically giving up. They would have very little room for innovation, no long-term advantage, and no real way to become a major player again.
Phone hardware is quickly turning into a commodity, so giving up their OS is just putting more nails in the coffin. It's the "easy" decision, but not the right one.
rickkettner 1 year ago 11
Very interesting stuff
tobyadams 1 year ago
About a year ago Palm's CEO said there was enough room in the smartphone space to support multiple players. I think it's unfortunate Palm's not one of them. As consumers we need as many viable options as possible to drive competition and keep prices and feature sets aggressive. I don't use a Pre but I hope they can turn things around. We just can't have Apple and Google pushing this trend forward in the consumer space. Maybe Nokia or Rim will acquire Palm.
Good argument Kevin.
daretodreamitcouldbe 1 year ago
Kevin why don't you just give the iphone a blowjob, ur all over its nuts.
rinodeluxe713 1 year ago
I have used the Palm Pre and it is way better than a Blackberry or Windows mobile device. It feels very similar to the iPhone OS but that is probably because the Web OS had loads of ex Apple developers and engineers working on it. If their was no iPhone I would have a Pre.
SlinkyStudio 1 year ago
Is dead???
Palm has been dead for years now. It's amazing that they're still around and kicking.
I think what they need to do is stop trying to reinvent the world themselves and look for that next handspring. That's really what pushed them to the front.
Look for that next handspring Palm. Maybe it's not some cell company maybe it's a tablet company they need to look for. WebOS on a tablet? BA
LooseLatitude 1 year ago
I really loved my PalmOS PDA devices. I was an early adopter and only put my Palm Tungsten aside shortly before I got my iPhone. It was an excellent mobile device, but Apple did really nail the mobile OS and App distribution model. It really has a forward thinking architecture and user interaction. It's really sad to see Palm fail in this sense. I still don't see the point of having desktop-class multi-taskting on a Mobile device. PalmOS 4 was very responsive due to it's single-tasking.
rcrocha 1 year ago
Don't think Nokia are develioping an android phone. They may have tested it internally but they've publicly derided it.
Mark7BD 1 year ago 2
Yeah you're correct. The only operating systems Nokia uses is Symbian and Meego, which used to be called Maemo before it was merged with Intel's Moblin.
Eeieeioo93 1 year ago
Good stuff Kevin!
NotalesS 1 year ago
Agree, the company hasn't responded quick enough but dead?! It's all a bit premature really. There are still a huge number of people who want exactly what Palm offers. I still get the feeling that the iPhone is still in 'fad' phase.
mramckoy 1 year ago
That's the first thing that come to my mind as well. The guys at palm need to realize this as well and get with the android. Palm needs to wake up, put their pride aside and do what makes sense, else they will sink. You don't need to reinvent the wheel but role with it.
mvakleko 1 year ago
nokia dosnt make andoird phones? where you get that info Kevin?
survivor303 1 year ago
@survivor303 DIGG LOL
luis61961944 1 year ago
Sad to see Palm fail so hard in the smart phone (re: pda) space they were once so dominate in. Palm Pre/Pixi were just way too late out of the gates considering Palms head start.
manmatt321 1 year ago
Ironically, Palm owns all of Be Inc's IP.
lazlo5149 1 year ago
Yes. I love Palm's innovations but the Pre is getting really dated, plastic and small display compared to competitors. The Pixi was a mistake because it is slower and does not have wifi. Palm needs to get on board with all carriers if they want to even become profitable.
igeekone 1 year ago
google should buy palm and merge android and web os card style for multi tasking
like a double tap on the home button brings up the cards
fourdoormafia 1 year ago
Pretty much agree on everything you've laid out here. I believe this was Palm's attempt at pleasing the "casual" crowd and extending their reach into a new market share with their new OS. While they have that core OS that is solid and really great at multitasking, it's lacking the "wow" punch that Apps offer the iPhone and Android phones.
I also think that when people look at the Pre and Pixi they don't see a "web" phone. The screen is just too small and I think that too is a limiting factor.
FrozenIpaq 1 year ago
Palm's OS HAD a lot of potential, but they didn't take full advantage of it when everyone was hyped about it. The card feature is the best way to multitask apps and they do it best.
BayAreaKING 1 year ago 2
I agree wholeheartedly with the need to license out the OS, but for the device itself, I can't live without the keyboard. I've tried typing on an IPod Touch and just can't do it. As for Palm being dead, I wouldn't say they are. I would've said they were dead when they took on Windows Mobile OS a few years ago, but they survived that.
TheCzarOfAll1 1 year ago
Palm just isn't relevant in 2010 from an install-base. I don't know one person who has or wants a palm device. I'm not a particular iPhone fan, but they are everywhere you look.
Even if they go the HTC route, they'll struggle as they are not manufacturers. I'd sell and run now!
I'm not into the iPhone as most people are, but as an alternative, Palm doesn't even register with me. It's either a symbian or Adroid phone.
I wouldn't be surprised if they fold or bought within the next 2-5 yrs
henrooo 1 year ago
great video man i love my iphone
brad20071 1 year ago
I have a Pre' (It's not activated anymore) and it's a great device. I don't think it feels too plasticky either. It has good weight, a pretty good quality display, and a killer OS. I had all of the innards of a prized mobile phone. Ya sure, it was lacking applications but it had a twitter app and facebook, what else is there? I think Palm should have tried to strike a deal with AT&T or Verizon to begin with. If you're trying to make a comeback why go with another co. trying to make a comeback?
iDiggMGL 1 year ago
I couldn't disagree more about your final conclusion. The only reason that the Palm Pre wasn't more widely adopted was because of build quality. And the only reason anyone liked the Pre was because of the OS.
Why would they bother to scrap the one thing they had going for them? Their best bet would be to have HTC build their phones from here on out. The developers go where the users are and a sleek new phone with WebOS (launched HTC-style on every carrier) would win a lot of people over.
evnarez 1 year ago
They need a bigger screen
SchneiderStudios 1 year ago
The problem is, all that latest smart phones are "me to" iphone clones, but not quite as good. Someone needs to do something revolutionary...as revolutionary as the original iphone. However, the bar is now so high, and the form-factor so limited, this is an enormous challenge.
blurglide 1 year ago
the htc supersonic is going to spank the droid..the nexus one and the iphone.
can't wait for that !
backdoorman1971 1 year ago
IMHO Nexis One>Droid>iPhone>Pixi
cristianbam 1 year ago
The idea of the Pre seemed great, the OS even looked pretty good, but the build quality left a lot to be desired.
BlueSmurfer 1 year ago
I personally think that Palm is ''dead'' because the iPhone is as good as a cellphone can get.
WolverinaWorld 1 year ago
@WolverinaWorld ...and 640k is all anyone will ever need.
Kragnerac 1 year ago 2
the iPhone is not that good... only the Apps make it good.. the Hardware is outdated
Carnage85 1 year ago
@Carnage85 out dated? most of the phones that come out right now aren't even up to the iPhones standards in terms of hardware.
spells14 1 year ago
@spells14 are you serious? it dont even has multitasking..
Carnage85 1 year ago
@Carnage85 Hardware buddy. Were not talking about the software. Im pretty sure it can handle multitasking just maybe needs better battery life.
spells14 1 year ago
nope
tonybeir 1 year ago
@WolverinaWorld you're not serious about the iphone?
Mark7BD 1 year ago
I agree with parts of this kevin, but strongly disagree with what you said at the end. WebOS is the only reason I would but a Palm device, if they scrapped it and used android, why would I buy one of their phones over an HTC one? As someone who has owned an ipod touch and a G1, I would without a doubt say WebOS is the best mobile OS out there. And it is actually ahead of android in terms of gaming. I think palm's biggest problem is their hardware, I hope they end up licensing it out.
zsmorr92 1 year ago 7
Yeah, the pre felt very cheap and toy-like, indeed.
darkreign16 1 year ago
Just give developers 100% instead of 70%..
resistance712 1 year ago
@resistance712 Then how will they make money?
eduardoc 1 year ago
@eduardoc They will sell phones, I mean, iphone is selling because of the apps, developers are developing because of the money. Apps is insanely important. Do you want to compete with apple today, on a phone that is not as beautiful. You have to pay them more.. I think. Its the only path for palm.
resistance712 1 year ago
Not a huge fan of the droid. A knock off version of the iPhone in my opinion. Google was able to make the Nexus One a very unique phone.
0llie1102 1 year ago
@0llie1102 How is the Droid a knock off of the iPhone but the Nexus One isn't?
eduardoc 1 year ago
in what way is the nexus one unique? that scroll ball it has or those unresponsive capacitive shortcuts on the screen? you must mean that you can actually be able to change the battery on the phone or the fact it uses an sd card rather than a hard drive. or the fact that it's uniquely similar to an iPhone like most touch phones out there on the market. google didn't make anything unique it's their version of an iPhone.
zahi745 1 year ago
Palm is the Myspace of Mobile OS's
neogigo 1 year ago
@neogigo No, Windows Mobile is. People have skinned it to shit, and even though it has more applications and it's been around longer, it sucks.
eduardoc 1 year ago
love your show dude
GamingEntertainerZ 1 year ago
Only phone I can see now that compete with the iPhone, is the Nexus one.
0llie1102 1 year ago