Very well done! Christ taught in his parabel about the wheat and the tears that the wicked will be gathered by angels and burned and then the righteous will be gathered next. Kind of gives a diffrent meaning to the "Left Behind". Well done. False prophets and false teachers proclaim the pre-rapture doctrine! They will be chastized during the tribulation and will burn if they don't repent.
Since you mention it, I have made a video about the meaning of being "left" at the coming of Christ. It's called: Taken and Left at Christ's Return - Revisted!
1 Thessalonians 4:15 "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." BTW: Translating today's English Bible into Greek then making assumptions is not the right way to go. The main language of the Dead Sea Scrolls is Hebrew, but there are many written in Aramaic and a FEW written in Greek.
@Zalahblue Correct me if I'm mistaken, but it seems you are saying Paul didn't write in Greek when he wrote his first letter to the church he planted in Thessalonica - situated in Greece(!) BTW: The vast majority of the New Testament Scriptures were written in Greek. And I'm not one for (as you put it) making assumptions; I draw conclusions from the text.
@arovir You'll need to correct yourself if need be. What I did comment was FEW Dead Sea Scrolls are written in 'GREEK' As to Paul writing Language, I did not comment.
Totally wrong! This confuses the second coming with the Rapture, which is before the great tribulation (wrath of God.) Chuck Missler explains this thoroughly - look him up.
@jbooks888 lol! I really like your direct approach! ;) It just so happens I am very well acquainted with dear old Chuck. We disagree on a lot of things, like the great tribulation equaling the wrath of God. This conclusion is rather bad exegesis. The Rapture (which does look good when capitalized) is no more than the gathering of the saints to Christ *at* His Second Coming (now that too looks good capitalized, don't you think?).
- You will still be here in the great tribulation. Mark my words!
@HolyBiblehiswordonly The Bible does NOT say that during the 1000 years reign everyone on earth is dead. There are scores of passages showing there will be people alive on earth during this time. As for the devil visiting the dead at this time - No! Rev 20 says an angel will take the devil, bind him with a great chain, throw him into the abyss for 1000 years so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the 1000 years were completed. These nations are on earth! The Bible is clear!
@HolyBiblehiswordonly My Bible says in Zech 14,3-4: 'Then the LORD will go forth... In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley...' This tells me Christ will indeed touch the ground in Jerusalem.
Rev 21,2 tells me the New Jerusalem will descend from heaven to the new earth, v.1, after the 1000 years, Rev 20,7. So there is no *major problem* :)
@HolyBiblehiswordonly The little horn in Dan 7 is a king v.24 who will wage war with the saints v.21 for 3 1/2 years v.25. The little horn in Dan 8 is a king v.23 who will arise from one of the 4 divisions of the ancient Grecian Empire v.21 and who will destroy mighty men and the holy people v.24. Both Dan 7 & 8 concern the final Antichrist - the king who will be the enemy of the people of God. So where do you get the idea of the little horn being "counterfeit Israel"? Please stay in the Word!
I dont even eat Post Cereal David hocking.!!!. If the rapture is post who then are the sheep at the second coming if the christians are post raptured. Only the goats are left. matthew 25 doesn't he separate the goats from the sheep at the second coming. Who then goes in and populates the mill, goats are gone we post christans already have our glorious bodies. We are not apointed to wrath. The whole 7 years is the wrath of God. U don't see the church after rev 4 mentioned untill rev 19.
@MrPsalm53 The sheep and goat judgment at the return of Christ to earth concerns their treatment of His brethren - who are the true Christians! This does not negate the post trib position it supports it. Those who populate the mill are those who treated Christ's brethren well (& have of course not taken the mark). The Bible doesn't say the whole 7 years is the wrath of God. It starts to come at the very end and at the second coming. About the church in Rev see my video: Who are the trib saints?
What a load of old cobblers. You religious nutbags have been holding back the progression of science and reason for thousands of years.
I think our life is a test, those that follow blind faith are lost to the pool of knowledge that marches on. Your "god does it" answer to everything i pathetic.
Hi Robert! Sharing this on facebook today! It is just exactly what I needed! You do such a great job explaining things which makes this very understandable. Hope you are doing well! ;)
@OGRUNERFUL - Yes, that's true, and God has shown in the Bible when the rapture will happen - not a date, but when in relation to other things in the end-time. The evidence points to the day of the second coming of Christ immediately after a troublesome period. (And by "rapture" I mean the gathering of all those who belong to Christ from all over the globe and elsewhere to meet Him in the clouds, in the air in order to escort Him in His descent to the earth.)
But how do you explain Jesus coming as a thief in the night to the world but not to the beliveers? The world is caught by surprise and the believers not - sounds like a firm argument for left behind.
The coming of the Lord is as in the days of Noah - the world will be happily going about its business and then suddenly disaster strikes - sounds stealthy to me!
Remember that when God appeared to Moses and Israel - the Israelites heard thunder but Moses heard God's voice and the trumpets!
@davidrhee7 - Concerning Jesus coming as a thief I invite you to view my video, Is Christ's Coming Imminent? Have you considered that Jesus says in Rev 16 - AFTER the 6th vial - He is going to come as a thief!? i.e. unexpectedly on the world, but not so for those who are awake. See Rev 3.3.
And concerning the days of Noah please see my video, Business as Usual at Christ's Return?
And for good measure you can take a look at my video, Taken and Left at Christ's Return - Revisited.
@greggmahalo No..that is not true. The books are fictional...but based on true biblical facts as far as theauthors are concerned. Tim LaHaye is an end times specialist and the premises of his books line up with his theology.
Unfortunately his understanding of biblical theology is more fictional and fantastically far fetched than any book could everhope to be
This is quite a lengthy contrived system to explain a simple passage.
Paul is addressing the resurrection and explaining it to those who are concerned about their dead loved one in Christ. The rapture takes place at exactly the same time as the resurrection at the end of time. Paul is not introducing a new doctrine. However Paul didn't read Left Behind either..........
@ageofgrace - One of the reasons I need to go into some length to explain things in my videos is because people are reading and swallowing... you guessed it.... Left Behind.
It is correct that Christians WILL not be "raptured" before the Great Tribulation Period. Those HEARERS that add or take away from the prophecy of the book of Revelation SHALL receive the soon coming Wrath of Yahuah.
We were instructed to FEAR Yahuah, not just "revere' Him. But the frowardness of most professing Christians will be laid low. ONLY those who endure to the end shall be saved. Type in 777denny in search engine to find: 'Is Barack Hussein Obama the First 'Beast' Spoken...'
@fowzie777, Most people seem to not understand that grace means "favor." We are saved to DO good works through the Holy Spirit of Elohim. "The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." "Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee." 777denny
@777denny1 - and it is God who, "works and wills" us to do the good works. that does not mean that our salvation depends on future performance. also you refer to a parable that Jesus gave to the Jews referring to the kingdom conditions. that is a gospel specifically for the Jews. remember - Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and His message was tailored to them.
@fowzie777,No matter how many times the false teachers of the false gospel of "once saved, always saved" try and pervert the gosel of Yahusha Ha'Mashiach, they will all end up in the lake of fire for preaching a different gospel than the one Paul preached, of which he warned angels and even himself to be ACCURSED if they preached another gospel than the one he first preached. I am extremely familiar with these false gospels, since I came out from among them and sat under their teachings.777denny
@777denny1 - my friend i feel sorry for you...you have no guaranty that you are saved or that you will be saved when you die. you are no better off than the muslims.... the fact is that the gospel preached to the nations is different than the gospel preached to the nation of Israel...the fact is that God saves completely and my salvation does not depend on my performance....i live under grace....you choose to live under law....may God open your eyes..
If you believe in a rapture you have been tricked by men in buildings, the very ones Messiah warned you about deceiving you. The righteous remain, the wicked are removed. To be raptured means one is a tare.
@QuietBuck - I can't help but think you wrote your comment without watching the entire vid!?! :) I do NOT believe in a pre trib rapture of the saints to heaven. What I do believe in and convey in the vid is that what is commonly called the rapture from 1 Thess 4:17 is the gathering of the saints to meet and greet Christ as He comes post trib. I suggest you watch my vid Taken and Left at Christ's return, which you will find agreeable - the righteous remain, the wicked are removed. God bless you!
@arovir: There is no pre-trib nor rapture period. Please open a concordance and define what you are reading in 1Thess 4:17. You will realize you are reading the same thing from Ex. and Deut w/ the pillar of Fire. No flesh man is coming on clouds nor are humans going to float up.
@QuietBuck You are entitled to you own opinion, but I have my own based on what I believe to be sound Scriptural analysis. I do not wish to continue any argument on this because my Bible says to "avoid foolish disputes... for they are unprofitable and useless" Tit 3:9.
@arovir: What I state is not my opinion, but solid doctrine, unless the Living Word lies.
Pro 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
1Peter 3:15 But set apart YHWH Elohim in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Master YHWH; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
I am trying to establish that we the believers who believes and confess with our mouths that the Lord Jesus Christ died and God raised him from the dead and believing that in our hearts are the redeemed ones from all nations, tongues, kindred, people right? With that said it appears that the 24 elders came from the earth and they have their reward prior to any seals being broken. By the way the only time we receive crowns and white robes is at the beama seat of Christ right?
@TheGrace4all - Let me remind you the non-glorified, non-resurrected martyrs in Rev 6 receive white robes years before they rise at the first resurrection at which time they will stand at the bema seat! For more info concerning the timing of the bema seat I refer you to my video: Is The Judgment Seat Pre- or Post-Trib?
@arovir True they do. However you are confused the graced church does not need to overcome because we are saved by grace and not of works. The Bema seat is the judgement seat of Christ for believers, and at his second coming not appearing he passes judgement on his enemies such as the AntiChrist which the Blessed Lord Jesus Christ destroys with the brightness of his coming. I gave you hint as to the rapture being his appearing not his coming. The snatchin away of the church was a secret in God
@arovir You are good at twisting and not focusing at the point at hand. The body of Christ is more of an example like Enoch who is raptured way before any flood occurred and he was singular and he walked with God simply means he believed God and the Graced believers fall in that same category becuase all we have to do today is believe. Reason I use this analogy is that no one can save themselves not with any amount of good works
@TheGrace4all - I beg your pardon! I am UNtwisting Scripture, and focusing on the coming of Christ. I find it questionable that you focus on Scriptures (Enoch & 24 elders) that don't even mention the coming of Christ!! You ASSUME they are pictures of something you ASSUME is going to happen. The text doesn't say the 24 elders are raptured. Maybe you haven't noticed that in Rev 11 the 24 elders announce the bema seat.
You have not even dismantled one sentence I say in my video or in my replies!
@TheGrace4all - You are assuming I overlook the gospel of our Lord Jesus. Far from it! And you are assuming you think I'm a so-called mid-tribber. Far from it. You are assuming too much, like you do with the way you use Scriptures concerning the end-time.
The bottom line is: The only way you will avoid the time of the great tribulation is if you die beforehand. Prepare to suffer for the Lord Jesus! You are hereby admonished. May God bless you with inner eye-sight and reveal more truth to you.
@arovir Contrary you have not proven anything or dismantled anything I've shared with you. We just woulc agree to disagree and again go back to the basic foundation of the grace gospel which is overlooked by you and your overcomers. Again everything I've shared with you went right over your head. I mentioned Enoch as an example of our rapture because we just have to believe God as did Enoch.(Grace) So based on what you said about the Bema seat you are now a mid seventh week rapture believer. LOL
@TheGrace4all Enoch was taken WAY before the flood, yes...as in one event had nothing to do with the other. And if we are taken based on "walking with God," then there would have been a LOT more people taken besides Enoch (Job, for one?). God took Enoch because He wanted to. Period.
Enoch was "translated" (Heb.11:5), not raptured. Greek word "mĕtatithēmi," meaning "to transfer, transport." God "took" Enoch (Gen.5:24). He is with God (not in a glorified body).
An example in the Bible of being "raptured" or "caught [up, away]" is Philip who was "caught away" by the Spirit to another place ON EARTH (Acts 8:39), also still in his flesh.
We who are alive & remain UNTIL Jesus' coming will both be "caught up" AND changed, at the last trump, just after the dead are raised. We will in no way precede the dead being raised(1Thes.4). I want to reiterate. This resurrection - the FIRST resurrection - takes place at the LAST trump when Jesus returns.
It seems to me what some people trip over is that the 1st resurrection is mentioned in Rev 20 after the Glorious Appearing in Rev 19. However, the Greek formulation in Rev 20 shows that John did not witness the actual resurrection then, only the results of the resurrection that happened in conjunction with the Glorious Appearing. I expound on this in my video: "The First Resurrection and The Last Trumpet".
@Jimvesterstallone Yes and Enoch and Elijah- in fact Jesus rose on the feast of First Fruits. people dont understand the staggered resurrections detailed in corinthians thats why they dont see the pretrib rapture because they think there is only one resurrection at the end. Why would Jesus raise us up to put us straight down again. rapture first, second coming to israel 7 years later- different conditions different times- Jewish wedding model prevails
@awaitthegroom Yes! Jesus is the firstfruits...right now the ONLY fruit:
"But now Christ is risen from the dead,& has become the FIRSTFRUITS of those who have fallen asleep..For as in Adam all die,even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order:Christ the firstfruits,afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.Then comes the end.."
Jesus is the FIRSTfruits..We know dead were "raised back to life" in their flesh before Him. But Jesus alone has an incorruptible body.
Right here in 1Cor15:20-24 we see the order specified: "But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's AT HIS COMING" (vs. 23).
So the "resurrection" spoken of here by Paul is defined in the text as one in which people will receive their incorruptible bodies..unlike ever before in history, with the exception of Jesus the firstfruits. This will be "at His coming." This corresponds with Revelation where we see the "first resurrection" of saints. Bless you.
@awaitthegroom One more thing! I just noticed you said, "Why would Jesus raise us up to put us straight down again." In the same way that Philip was "caught away" and found in another place on earth, we will be caught up in the air with the Lord, but that doesn't mean we are going to go to heaven. We will rule and reign with Him here on earth for 1,000 years.
@Jimvesterstallone Not according to the Biblical pattern Why do you think the Lord chose the jewish people to bring His word and His son through? Their festival patterns are the agenda for His plan. The jewish wedding ancient ceremony is the model- hence we are the bride- He is the groom- there is a reason for this. If you study the model you will understand scripture better
@awaitthegroom - Adding to Jimvesters excellent comments: Paul outlines three resurrections in 1 Cor 15:20ff. Christ first. Then those at His coming (the dead in Christ - the first resurrection). Then we read: Christ "must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." I.e when He comes He will reign (1000 years) until death is destroyed at the 2nd resurrection - of the rest of the dead. There's no pre-first resurr. before He comes to reign!
@arovir yes Jesus is the first fruit as scripture says but there have been occassions where other individuals were resurrected in their time- Enoch and Elijah. They are types of the Christ which illustrate the resurrection to come. The jewish wedding is the pattern for the bride- if you study the ancient ceremony you will see why we are called the bride and He the groom. He takes His bride to His fathers house. Other believers ( martyrs) are raised later.
@awaitthegroom - Ancient Jewish wedding customs cannot have precedence over the Word of God! As I pointed out, Paul gives no room in 1 Cor 15 for a resurrection of millions of dead saints prior to the resurrection of those who are Christ's at His coming to reign. The same was revealed to John. The resurrection at the coming of Christ post trib in the book of Revelation is stated there to be the FIRST resurrection. In other words no resurrection of millions of dead saints years beforehand! Think!
I am also troulbled when people use Jewish customs and tradition rather than the word of God to depict end time events. I only see ONE resurrection [at the last trump 1 Cor. 15:52] of ALL the saints of God at the return of Christ, and as you say, it is the FIRST resurrection, and this resurrection is AFTER the tribulation of those days. If it is the FIRST resurrection, then how could there have been a resuurection 7 yrs earlier? God bless
@awaitthegroom Enoch and Elijah were not resurrected as they never died. This is why many people believe they will be the two witnesses.
The dead will be raised/given new bodies for the 1st time in history when Jesus comes according to 1 Cor. If we who are alive & remain will "in no way precede them," then our rapture cannot be before His coming.
I see your reasoning, and I have heard it before. But I do not see Scripture confirming it. Can you point me to Scripture saying what you are saying?
@Jimvesterstallone Perhaps the word I should use is then raptured.Whether we are resurrected or raptured- both are indicated at the rapture with the dead in Christ rising first then we who are alive will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This is very different to the second coming where His feet land on the mount of Olives and He redeems Israel with (us) His saints who return with hIm
@awaitthegroom: Please open a concordance and define what you are reading in 1Thess 4:17. You will realize it is not the painted picture most accept. Never forget Jer 8:8 and 2Tim 2:15.
@QuietBuck I do have several concordances which I use frequently, and I do not forget the two verses you mention. Thank you for taking the time to write comments on my video. God bless you!
When you learn to rightly divide the word of truth then will the scriptures make sense 2Timothy 2:15. a couple of questions to all who is listening to this young man. Who are the 24 elders in Rev: 5 and when does the breaking of the seven seals take place? is it at the start of the seventh week or is it in the midst of the seventh week when the great tribulation begins? Well the 24 elders if you didn't know repesents the raptured church. the fit the characteristics or fit the bill.
@TheGrace4all - Thank you for watching, and for the compliment about my age ( I am almost a decade older than you! lol!) Whatever answers are given by others to your questions, let me say I do know the 24 elders represent the church - according to a way of interpreting Scripture which I find at fault. John in heaven converses with one of the elders; they are 24 individuals! I do not think the church is made up of only 24 people. They DON't fit the bill! The saints on earth in the tribulation do!
@arovir Figured you would say something like that. Is Paul an elder? the 24 elders have crowns for which they lay at the Lords feet and worship him. Rev: 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation:
well we know that they are people that has been redeemed by the blood right?
@TheGrace4all - Golden crowns are not an automatic sign of reward. The locusts in Rev 9 have golden crowns!
The song in Rev 5 is rendered differently in different translations. The NASB, CEV, NIV etc etc have "they" and "them", not "us" and "we". Notice, not only the 24 elders are singing. Rev 5:8 talks of "the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders". The next verse says "they sang", i.e. all 28 of them! I don't think we can say the four living creatures are from earth, now can we?
@arovir Figured you would say something like that. Is Paul an elder? the 24 elders have crowns for which they lay at the Lords feet and worship him Rev 4:10. Rev: 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation:
well we know that they are people that has been redeemed by the blood right?
@arovir Yes the elders are individuals just like you and me but we are the body of Christ and that is Identified as one believing body right? Do you believe in the gospel of Grace? because the tribulation saints have to over come we don't. We were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Ephesian 1:4, The only people protected during the seventh week are the 144,000 Jewish believers chosen by God from the twelve tribes of Isreal right? So why would a redeemed church be doing there?
@TheGrace4all - If you do a complete study of those you call "tribulation saints" you will find many characteristics that in no way differ from the saints who were experiencing tribulation in the time of Paul. Do a study of "overcoming" in Scripture. This necessity applied back then, now and until Christ returns post trib. You are right, there is "one believing body" which includes every tribulation saint whether from Paul's time, now or in the great tribulation before Christ's return.
@arovir I've come to the conclusion a long time from looking at your videos and comments that you need to go back to the basics because you're confusing the Body of Christ with the tribulation saints. Which I do see one thing and that is you are subverting the faith of the babes. To over come sounds like work where as we the body of Christ is saved by grace and not by works to salvation right? Go back to the basic foundation of grace and you might see.
@TheGrace4all - Have you ripped out 1st John from your Bible?? FIVE times we read here of OVERCOMING the evil one, false prophets and the world!! And have you removed Romans too?? Paul wrote of OVERCOMING evil with good!! Revelation 12 talks of OVERCOMING Satan by the blood of the Lamb. Have you found a better way?? Do you exclude yourself from Rev 21:7?? where Christ says: he who OVERCOMES will inherit the things God has promised for eternity. (It's the same Greek word throughout, btw.)
@TheGrace4all - Christ gives promises to those in all seven churches in Rev 2 & 3 who "overcome" (Gr. nikao). What it means to overcome in the end-time is made clear later in the prophecy: Rev 15:2: "...victory (Gr. nikao) over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name". Rev 12:11: "...they overcame (Gr. nikao) him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death." Cf. "Be faithful unto death" Rev 2:10.
Well, he sounds eloquate as he frustrate the word of God to fit what he believes to be truth. After all the eloquate explaination what do we do the words of our Lord Jesus Christ to Paul and John that we are not appointed to the wrath to come. Just ignore it because it doesn't fit with what your wrestling with and some responding to you as if you have sound doctrine. Itching ears I say!!! The body of Christ and our snatching away is before the great tribulation. I have more to say in a few.
@TheGrace4all - I agree, God did not appoint us to wrath! But do you know what Paul meant by "wrath"? Study every instance of him using this word. You might be surprised. It has the same meaning as Jesus and John the Baptist put into it (It's NOT a period of time before Christ returns to earth). I stopped frustrating the Word of God to make it fit what I believe to be truth when the Holy Spirit revealed to me I was wrong about my former belief in a pre-trib rapture to heaven of the church.
@GRANTEDREPENTANCE - It really doesn't matter if a Christian dies before the return of Christ. When He comes in glory after the trib the dead in Christ will rise first and will be caught up together with the living believers who are changed! If that isn't consolation, I don't know what is!! And if the coming of our wonderful Savior doesn't excite a believer I wonder what would!? Blessings to you, sister! :)
@GRANTEDREPENTANCE - Yes, through the ages millions of our brothers and sisters have been, and still are, cruelly slaughtered for being Christians. If ever this fate should befall me I want to look at the promise of Rev 20:4 I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And THEY LIVED AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST FOR A THOUSAND YEARS :)
@GRANTEDREPENTANCE - Yes, I know there is SUPPOSED to be two last trumpets, as well as two first resurrections, and two comings, and two of this & that - I'm glad I took off those awful bifocals!! lol!
No you are not strange! Listen to Peter in an end-time context: Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you... but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 1 Pet 4:13
your wrong! Mark 13:32 says "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." if we knew when the tribulation was happening, we would be able to count down down and know when Jesus is gonna come. am i right?
@Studmon182 - With all due respect, siting one verse does not come even close to dismantling anything I present in the video! Look at the context of Mark 13:32. When Jesus said "that day" He was of course referring back to what He is talking about in the chapter i.e. His coming which He Himself says emphatically in v.24-26 is POST-trib!
For more on knowing / not knowing I invite you to view my video: Can Christ Come at Any Moment? If you are a truth seeker you will find the truth if you want it!
@Studmon182 - I would also like to add this about Mark 13:32. Jesus said not even He knows the day or hour, yet previously in the chapter He told of event after event that will happen BEFORE He comes including those in and after "that tribulation" (v.24, referring back to it's mention in v.19, obviously the last great one). This proves Jesus didn't expect to come back at any time. I hope you begin to see the picture, brother! No serious post-tribber knows the day or hour either!! God bless!
Amen mate. Your outline is quite clear and not hidden in scripture. I used to try to follow the PreTrib Rapture as it was the only teaching I was presented with. I have since found it to be assumption upon assumption and quite non literal despite the claim that it is literal. God bless, Mick
@christianissues - Your experience with the Pre-Trib Rapture teaching is mine too. I was brought up with it. And yes, it's only assumed to be in Scripture - taken for granted that it's there!. All the *proof* verses used only assume it's there. Peeling away assumption after assumption, and digging to find the foundation of the pre-trib theory, reveals nothing in Scripture. It appears to be a fabrication derived from a mis-guided form of extreme dispensationalist teaching!! God bless you too!
@carlmelanson1 - How Obama rose to power does not fit the description the Bible gives concerning the rise of the antichrist. RFID does not fully fit the description of the mark of the beast, at least not at present. And according to Scripture the false prophet is masculine... You didn't comment on the mass beheadings!? The thing you did get right is that I'm a man! ;D I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the time is not now! You will have to wait a bit longer...
@carlmelanson1 - I'm sorry, but you can not promise that all these things will occur before 2012. You are believing in something that will not happen when you think it should. Jesus is coming soon, but not that soon. Where is the Antichrist and the false prophet? Where is the mark of the beast? Where are the mass beheadings of Christians? What you should heed is what the Bible says will happen to end-time believers before Jesus comes back. Be prepared for tribulation, not a mistaken idea.
Co 15:52 In a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of eaven to the other2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not comeexcept there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealedthe son of perdition
I don't belive in the rapture. I belive that the so called tribulation will occur before christ's coming. After his coming a thousand years on earth will be the devil's prison.
@RUfaggle - I too don't believe in a rapture to heaven prior to the so called tribulation. However, as I present in the video I do believe in a rapture of all the saints to the clouds to meet Christ after the tribulation in order to escort Him in His descent to the earth. As for the thousand years, the Bible tells me it will be glorious time on earth with Christ ruling from Jerusalem in Israel while the devil is bound and imprisoned in the pit. God bless :)
I think this commentator is incorrect. Christ will come a 2nd and 3rd time. The second time, will be the rapture and the 3rd time He will set up his kingdom here on earth for 1000 years. People read your Bible for yourselves and stop listening to other people. Stop being lazy!!
@THEMAN200711 - You say I am incorrect. You have to prove that! Dismantle everything I say and then you can begin to talk about a 2nd and 3rd coming. What you say about reading the Bible for oneself is exactly what I am telling people to do!! There are so many, as you say, who are "lazy" and listen to people who propagate an end-time teaching that the first Christians did not teach. I say to you and everyone else: Go back to the undiluted words of the Lord and His apostles to see the truth!
@arovir Amen, arovir, and I have just featured your entire channel on my channel hoping to dispense with this pre-trib false doctrine once and for all. Your teaching is sound, systematic and irrefutable to anyone coming to the Word with a sincere desire to arrive at the Truth ONLY and hear a clear and scholarly exposition on the endtimes. I say bravo, and keep up the good, important work. I am SO CONCERNED for all the saints who are living in delusion over this pre-trib *doctrine.*
@Mark13vs37 - I say amen to you being 'concerned for all the saints who are living in delusion over this pre-trib *doctrine.*' That's exactly why I am spending time making what I do on YT. Thank you for your support!! :)
daniel chapter 12 says only 42 months into the tribbulation ...so its not at the end of the tribbulation,,,,.its 3 and a half years or 42 months into the tribbulation.
@pureinheart777- Daniel 12 says the great tribulation (v.1) will last 3 1/2 years (v.7). V.11 says this will start at the abomination of desolation. Jesus said the same in Matthew 24: the abomination of desolation (v.15) will trigger the great tribulation (v.21). The 42 months are therefore the LAST half of the last seven years. At the coming of Christ immediately after the great tribulation (v.29-30) the rapture will occur (v.31). The rapture is the gathering of the saints to greet Christ! :)
AWESOME teaching! + Favorited on my channel. Every Christians needs to see this to arm themselves with your cogent line-upon-line refutation of the fanciful pre-trib teaching so prevalent in the Body of Christ. today. I pray many, many souls come to this video + have the scales of their eyes removed so they can prepare themseles, and get the extra OIL for their lamps each of us desperately needs to ENDURE to the END, esp. as this world just keeps getting darker and darker. Bless you, brother
@Mark13vs37 - Thank you so much for your encouragement! Yes, we Christians need to go back to the Word and find out what it really says, no matter what the big names in the world of prophecy say. The problem with much of the prevailing end-time teaching is that it takes scriptures out of context, something I have to keep reminding myself to stay in!! lol!
The resurrection of the dead in Christ is ONE event divided into 2 parts. Those who are asleep in Christ and those in Christ who have not yet died a physical. The word 'then' means immediately. Hence THE RESURRECTION is one event divided into two parts. The Rapture is only the second half of the First half of the resurrection. It is one event that occurs as 'a one and a two'. Not divided by 7 years and in reverse order as pre trib teaches. Excellent video
@ALittleBrother - Yes, believers still alive at the return of Christ will experience Phil. 3:21 which says He "...will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body". They will go straight from having a corruptible body to getting their 'resurrection' body without dying! All in a twinkling of an eye!!
@arovir having been christian and now muslim..I still seek the truth on these matters. I read both books and agree with the teachings of Islam of the bible being corrupted. In the Quran God himself mentioned how man has changed his words...such as what you did in writing Phil. 3:21 what it really says is as follows....Wh shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorius body, according to the workings whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
@rsaf18 - I'm sure you are aware the Koran has different English translations, as does the Bible. This doesn't make the Arabic text of the Koran corrupted; the same is true of the original Hebrew and Greek text of the Bible.
The Word of God came in human flesh and gave His life on a Roman cross to pay for your sins. God raised Him from the dead in order to justify you before God when you put your faith in Him.
He has given us His commands to follow and His Holy Spirit enables us to do so. :)
i thought that the rapture will happen as the sign of the beginning of the end of the world and that the righteous will be caught up in the rapture and the sinful will stay on earth to face the lords wrath as he returns and destroys the antichrist.
I thought this way half my life: There will be several years between the rapture (to heaven) and Christ's return. Now I am convinced there will be only a matter of hours between the rapture (to the clouds) and Christ's return. I can agree with your sentence - it's only a matter of timing!!
In the 16th century, a new view of Bible prophecy was devised by a Jesuit priest to stop the Reformers from teaching that the Catholic Church was probably the "whore of Babylon" of Revelation 17:3-6.
In 1591AD, the Jesuit Ribera invented a "futurist" view. Sound familiar? In 1767, another Jesuit named de Lacunza claimed to be a converted Jew named Rabbi Ben-Ezra. Under that alias, he wrote a 900 page book. Then it went thru Irving, McDonald, Darby, Scofield, then printed by Moody.
Yes, Christ is returning to earth. Didn't you catch the four times I mentioned this in the video? I also mentioned three times that the saints who will be gathered by the angels to meet Christ in the air space above Israel will then accompany Him in His descent to Jerusalem. I do not support the notion of people flying away to heaven, but the Bible is clear that there will be a massive gathering of resurrected and glorified saints in the clouds in the air to meet Christ when He returns to earth.
Thanks for your videos! So your understanding is that we follow Christ and his angels to Jerusalem for battle, or to observe, or continue up to heaven for 1000 years?? I don't want to be confused at that moment, thank you. Rev 20:1 says an angel will bind satan for 1000 years, then the books are opened for judgement. Fire then comes down to devour the damned in the "second death" (resurrection) in Rev 20:6,14. In Rev 20:9 are we then "in the camp of the beloved city"?
Rev 17:14 indicates we will be with Christ when He rides to battle; the angelic armies will assist Him in taking over the planet, Rev 19:18. But I can't envision myself participating actively in the carnage! Anyway, we shall always be with the Lord when He returns, 1 Thess 4:17. He will reign on earth; therefore we are not in heaven for the 1000 years although we can visit! Some of us will be in the camp at Jerusalem I believe and others elsewhere on earth as indicated in Luke 19:17.
Good video! I think that you accurately describe the Biblical material.
I think that a key to understanding this is in Daniel chapter 7. Jesus refered to himself as the son of man. The son of man receives the kingdom when the 4th beast is destroyed. IMO Rome is the 4th beast and Rome fell a long time ago. But no son of man and no kingdom.
Thank you for your kind comment on this video. However, I do not believe that the 4th beast is ancient Rome. From what I understand of Scripture this beast is yet future and will be destroyed at the 2nd coming of Jesus - the one you rightly identify as the Son of Man.
I appreciate your assessment of my material, though I would be careful about calculating a deadline year for the coming of Christ. The only reason I can see from the website is that biblical generation is said to be 70 years. In fact a generation can be up to 100 years according to Genesis 15:13 & 16. We are told the 400 year captivity in Egypt encompassed four generations.
1st let me say your video blessed me & I'm sure others. I understand your concern for date setting. I too was hesitant to set a timeframe until I viewed Daniels timeline video. Couple that with the meteoric speed of change Obama & the central banksters are imposing on the world it seems certain to me war & famine are at the door. Jesus said to read the signs of the times. Are they not here? My point is it's time to get our spiritual house in order as persecution is coming & it will be fierce!
I have also viewed the Daniel's timeline videos (several months ago). There are certain things here that can be questioned concerning interpretation. According to this series we should already have entered the last seven years this fall! This was calculated more than a decade ago. Datesetting has been going on for centuries. When will we ever learn? But I agree with you about getting our spiritual house in order. The time is short (cf. signs of the times), but as yet only God knows how short.
Many important things can be going on behind the scenes. I feel Israel will soon "confirm" the 1967 borders {covenant} agreement. I don't see a peace treaty as many speculate. Bottom line is though we will escape the wrath of the Day of the Lord judgement we will suffer Satan's tribulation. The Laodicean Church, lazy, self centered & materialistic will lose faith if they do not repent & commit to Yeshua as LORD & not Savior alone. Pray fervently now!
so when will the 7 trumpets sound? immediately after the tribulation or before the tribulation? and if we will be raptured immediately after the tribulation, will we get to see who the antichrist is before the rapture??
From what I can see from the Bible the 7 trumpets will sound in the course of the tribulation. The last of these 7 trumpets will sound at the very end. End time believers will see who the Antichrist is because he will be at large in the tribulation; the rapture of the believers occurs immediately after the tribulation at the coming of Christ.
John14:2 " In My Father's house are many mansions; If it were not so, I would have told you. I go (heaven) and prepare a place for you. (His bride) 3."And if I go(heaven) and prepare a place for you,(His bride) I will come again and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, (heaven) there (heaven) you(His Bride) may be also. 4. "And where I
well if its post trib then it kinda takes away the whole sense or urgency to be ready for his coming. if its post trib then you can can start date setting, with all the sings and wonders still to come. Does God judge the good with the evil? So if we are raptured at the end of the trib then right back down we go because Hes
coming down to rule earth. . .whats the up and down for? God is love and HE loves his bride. Why beat her up before the wedding?
Thank you for your questions. The answers to all of them are contained in my other videos.... We must not allow what we think best, or what we want (or don't want), to cloud the plain message of the Bible.
About being ready and knowing the time, see - Can Christ come at any moment?
About God judging, see - Not appointed to Wrath, and Escaping in the Tribulation
About the up and down, see - The Rapture, and The book of Revelation and the Rapture
Answers in short: I have more urgency to be ready for His coming now than when I was a pretribber. No one will know the time until the time comes, as Jesus conveyed. God does not judge the good with the evil. The "up" is to the great gathering of all believers at His coming. The "down" is to accompany Him in His descent. Christ's bride will be pure when He comes. Persecution purifies like nothing else. Just ask for example Christians from China, Russia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Iran, North Korea etc.
At this moment in time it is impossible to say when the rapture will occur. Jesus said we are to watch for the signs in order to know (see my vid: Can Christ come at any moment?). If I were to hazard a guess, I think some time within the next 30 years.
i personally think it could happen within a few years time. why? cuz henry kissinger announced that obama is has come into office at the perfect time to set the new world order. he also said in other news media that obama is primed to create new world order. also, there are many reports of fema camps planted all over north america. these camps are empty right now with guards and will be used to imprison north americans.
also, it has been said that the people who will be imprisoned into these fema camps will be determined on which ever list (red, blue, yellow) they are on. fema will put red, blue, or yellow reflectors on mail boxes or sidewalks to mark the houses of people to which they are listed in. I DIDNT BELIEVE THIS AT FIRST UNTIL I PERSONALLY SAW A FEW RED REFLECTORS ON SOME PEOPLES MAIL BOXES. i see more and more reflectors every where every day. im convinced these are litterally the last days for us.
Well, read Revelations 16:15 which is spoken between the 6th and 7th seal which still says that God will come as a thief in the night. This occurs long after you believe he would have come. Furthermore, the rapture occurs at the last trump. 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 thessalonians 4:13-18, 2 thessalonians 2:3, and so much more.
Yes, pretribbers have a hard time with Rev 16:15 where Jesus is announcing just after the sixth vial (not seal) He is about to come as a thief so his followers are to watch! This ties in with the thief motive in Matt 24:43 where Jesus says that knowing when the thief comes makes us watchful! It also aligns with 1 Thess 5:2 where Paul talks about the coming of the Lord (4:16) as a thief. He goes on to say that because we are not in darkness it won't come as a thief upon us who watch (v.6).
Furthermore, have you ever heard of a thief coming to offer an escape? Seriously. Thieves don't break into houses to give you a non-stop flight to heaven.
Nice use of the Gospel accounts. Regardless of whether we look into the Gospel of Mark or Matthew, the rapture still occurs "immediately after the Great Tribulation".
Pretribbers like to think of Jesus coming as a thief to steal away the church unawares. They fail to see that Christ Himself likens His coming which is post-trib, Matt 24:29-30, to that of a thief v.43. In this very verse He says that the house-owner who knows when in the night the thief comes will of course stay awake. Paul follows up, and says it will be those who are in darkness who will experience Christ's return as a thief, 1 Thes 5:2,4-5, meaning suddenly and unexpectedly. Not so with us.
The pre-trib theory is purely an inference, based on speculation. All arguments in an attempt to support this view just assume that there is a pre-trib journey to heaven. The actual passage describing the rapture to the clouds, points in another direction, namely a post trib scene as my vid plainly shows.
Even if an angel does not sound the trumpet of God, which is not an impossibility, the Trumpet here is called the LAST trumpet in 1 Cor 15:52. The post trib trumpet in Matt 24:31 at the gathering of the elect at the coming of Christ cannot therefore come after the last trumpet. Either they are the same or the last trumpet is sounded after the post trib trumpet. I believe the former.
The seventh(last) trumpet happens before the 7 vial judgements. That is way before the 2nd coming. Your 7th trumpet theory holds no water for a 2nd coming rapture.
Who said the 7th trumpet occurs way before the second coming? The Book of Revelation seems to be structured in cycles. The seals show the big picture unto to end. The trumpets show a narrower more detailed picture unto the end. The vials depict an even shorter period leading up to the end. The end = the second coming.
You words denying the truth of the scripture are telling people that they will not be saved from the judgements of GOD. You are discouraging many from being saved from this. You are the one that is doing harm, not I! We are suppose to encourage souls to accept Yeshuah as their savior and be saved from GODE's wrath. You are telling everyone that they have to endure through all of GOD's wrath first. That is not what Yeshuah wanted you to do!
No believer in Christ is appointed to wrath. Don't confuse tribulation great or small with wrath. They are not the same. I explain in my vid Escaping in the hour of tribulation what believers can be exempt from in the tribulation. You are one harming God's people by telling them they will face no global tribulation in the end time.
The Bible tells of no hiding or protecting of the Christians from the Tribulation except for being removed. During the Tribulation, the bible only talks of Tribualtion saints that are killed in the name of Christ. How is it that there is no reference to protection for us?? Scriptures only speak of removing us through the rapture before judgements of the tribulation occur!
Hasn't it occurred to you that saints pray from the earth? Their prayers in ch.5 and 8 reach heaven. About Rev 8, I agree, but look at the timing - 7 th trumpet. Why didn't you comment on ch. 13?- the beast making war with the saints, ch.14:12 the patience of the saints not taking the mark v.11. ch.16:6, 17:6, 18:24 all speak of the blood of the saints. And because Rev 19:7-8 shows that the saints are the wife of the Lamb, then she has to have been in the tribulation under persecution.
Revelation 13:8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. These saints are tribulation saints killed in the name of Christ during the tribulation.
Revelation 14 & 15 talks of Tribulation saints once again that die in Yeshuah's name. Revelation 16 speaks of GOD as "Lord of Saints" which has no implication of saints on Earth only. It refers to all saints both in heaven from the rapture and those killed on Earth during the Tribualtion. Revelation 17-18 pertains to the Fall of the Catholic Church and it's persecution of saints through the generations and current.
The term "Tribulation saints" is just a made up term to separate them from the church. The internal evidence in the Book of Revelation show that the saints of all ages, including those in the tribulation period, constitute the wife of the Lamb, i.e. the church.
Luke 12:36 (King James Version) 36"And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately."
How can he return from a wedding and then rapture his church?? You seem to ignore these very important scriptures that proves you wrong.
I explained how we know this is a parable. Those who Christ spoke to were the disciples who became leaders in the church. Therefore this parable is directed to the church. The church is to be like men that wait for their lord. It's evident that the wedding here it not literal just like the terms "knocketh" and "open unto him" are not.
See you then! And thanks for adding this vid among your favorites. Cheers me up after someone wrote something very inappropriate about my vid earlier today.
As you can see, all the scriptures you mention in all your comments have their legitimate place in the end time scenario. What you haven't done is to take my video point by point and dismantle what I put forth and show me exactly where I am wrong in my use of Scripture. It's no good going around the subject and not deal with what is presented. You don't win a court case with that approach.
I am explaining that you have misinterpreted your scriptures and ignored the others that strongly suggest the church will be removed before GOD's judgements occur.
You still haven't attempted to dismantle the points I make in my vid. I thought like you for 27 years. I've grown up since then. A pre-trib trip to heaven is pure fantasy. You can believe it and teach it until you get blue in the face. It's not going to happen. My job is to prepare the western Christians for coming tribulation. I don't need to dissuade believers from North Korea, China, Russia, Vietnam, Indonesia, Egypt, Irak, Iran etc etc. The pretrib doctrine hasn't got a chance among them.
There isnt anything in the passage to suggest that John is supposed to illustrate the church. John was transported to heaven in order to receive visions of the end time. He was not only in heaven when he received his visions. Later he received several visions while on earth (10:1-5; 11:1; 13:1; 17:1-3; 18:1). If John does portray the church, then the church will ascend to heaven and descend to the earth again a number of times during the great tribulation. This interpretation is unacceptable.
In the history of the universe, there is only 2 times that the heavens open up. The time of the Rapture and the time of the 2nd coming. John was taken up and the heavens opened up for him. He experienced the rapture in the future. He then experienced the opening of the 7 seals in the order it would happen after the rapture.
You are fighting with scripture just to deny christians their salvation. There is a reason Satan is making you do this.
you dont have a jet pack on your back, God will take you (thru) it, you will see Yeshua on ..........7-7-7.......
glinnz05 2 months ago
Very well done! Christ taught in his parabel about the wheat and the tears that the wicked will be gathered by angels and burned and then the righteous will be gathered next. Kind of gives a diffrent meaning to the "Left Behind". Well done. False prophets and false teachers proclaim the pre-rapture doctrine! They will be chastized during the tribulation and will burn if they don't repent.
ApostasyRestoration 2 months ago
@ApostasyRestoration Thank you! :)
Since you mention it, I have made a video about the meaning of being "left" at the coming of Christ. It's called: Taken and Left at Christ's Return - Revisted!
arovir 2 months ago
1 Thessalonians 4:15 "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." BTW: Translating today's English Bible into Greek then making assumptions is not the right way to go. The main language of the Dead Sea Scrolls is Hebrew, but there are many written in Aramaic and a FEW written in Greek.
Zalahblue 2 months ago
@Zalahblue Correct me if I'm mistaken, but it seems you are saying Paul didn't write in Greek when he wrote his first letter to the church he planted in Thessalonica - situated in Greece(!) BTW: The vast majority of the New Testament Scriptures were written in Greek. And I'm not one for (as you put it) making assumptions; I draw conclusions from the text.
God bless!
arovir 2 months ago
@arovir You'll need to correct yourself if need be. What I did comment was FEW Dead Sea Scrolls are written in 'GREEK' As to Paul writing Language, I did not comment.
Zalahblue 2 months ago
Totally wrong! This confuses the second coming with the Rapture, which is before the great tribulation (wrath of God.) Chuck Missler explains this thoroughly - look him up.
jbooks888 6 months ago
@jbooks888 lol! I really like your direct approach! ;) It just so happens I am very well acquainted with dear old Chuck. We disagree on a lot of things, like the great tribulation equaling the wrath of God. This conclusion is rather bad exegesis. The Rapture (which does look good when capitalized) is no more than the gathering of the saints to Christ *at* His Second Coming (now that too looks good capitalized, don't you think?).
- You will still be here in the great tribulation. Mark my words!
arovir 6 months ago
@arovir Well, since it is not a matter of (eternal) life or death, I don't feel inclined to argue about it.
jbooks888 6 months ago
@jbooks888 Well said. I was about to say the very same thing... lol!
arovir 6 months ago
@HolyBiblehiswordonly The Bible does NOT say that during the 1000 years reign everyone on earth is dead. There are scores of passages showing there will be people alive on earth during this time. As for the devil visiting the dead at this time - No! Rev 20 says an angel will take the devil, bind him with a great chain, throw him into the abyss for 1000 years so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the 1000 years were completed. These nations are on earth! The Bible is clear!
arovir 7 months ago
@HolyBiblehiswordonly My Bible says in Zech 14,3-4: 'Then the LORD will go forth... In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley...' This tells me Christ will indeed touch the ground in Jerusalem.
Rev 21,2 tells me the New Jerusalem will descend from heaven to the new earth, v.1, after the 1000 years, Rev 20,7. So there is no *major problem* :)
arovir 7 months ago
@HolyBiblehiswordonly The little horn in Dan 7 is a king v.24 who will wage war with the saints v.21 for 3 1/2 years v.25. The little horn in Dan 8 is a king v.23 who will arise from one of the 4 divisions of the ancient Grecian Empire v.21 and who will destroy mighty men and the holy people v.24. Both Dan 7 & 8 concern the final Antichrist - the king who will be the enemy of the people of God. So where do you get the idea of the little horn being "counterfeit Israel"? Please stay in the Word!
arovir 7 months ago
I dont even eat Post Cereal David hocking.!!!. If the rapture is post who then are the sheep at the second coming if the christians are post raptured. Only the goats are left. matthew 25 doesn't he separate the goats from the sheep at the second coming. Who then goes in and populates the mill, goats are gone we post christans already have our glorious bodies. We are not apointed to wrath. The whole 7 years is the wrath of God. U don't see the church after rev 4 mentioned untill rev 19.
MrPsalm53 8 months ago
@MrPsalm53 The sheep and goat judgment at the return of Christ to earth concerns their treatment of His brethren - who are the true Christians! This does not negate the post trib position it supports it. Those who populate the mill are those who treated Christ's brethren well (& have of course not taken the mark). The Bible doesn't say the whole 7 years is the wrath of God. It starts to come at the very end and at the second coming. About the church in Rev see my video: Who are the trib saints?
arovir 8 months ago
What a load of old cobblers. You religious nutbags have been holding back the progression of science and reason for thousands of years.
I think our life is a test, those that follow blind faith are lost to the pool of knowledge that marches on. Your "god does it" answer to everything i pathetic.
Scanini 8 months ago
@twist6909 - Well, we do well to ponder these words from Ecclesiates 7:8: "The end of a matter is better than its beginning..." ;)
arovir 8 months ago
@twist6909 - Yes, it is post trib, so I'm not sure how your exclamation is meant to be read... :)
arovir 8 months ago
Hi Robert! Sharing this on facebook today! It is just exactly what I needed! You do such a great job explaining things which makes this very understandable. Hope you are doing well! ;)
Lachance8 8 months ago
@Lachance8 Thank you Liz for your kind words. A comment like that is so refreshing to receive! And yes, I'm doing well. Hope you are too.
arovir 8 months ago
the rapture will happen when god wants it to happen
OGRUNERFUL 9 months ago
@OGRUNERFUL - Yes, that's true, and God has shown in the Bible when the rapture will happen - not a date, but when in relation to other things in the end-time. The evidence points to the day of the second coming of Christ immediately after a troublesome period. (And by "rapture" I mean the gathering of all those who belong to Christ from all over the globe and elsewhere to meet Him in the clouds, in the air in order to escort Him in His descent to the earth.)
arovir 9 months ago
But how do you explain Jesus coming as a thief in the night to the world but not to the beliveers? The world is caught by surprise and the believers not - sounds like a firm argument for left behind.
The coming of the Lord is as in the days of Noah - the world will be happily going about its business and then suddenly disaster strikes - sounds stealthy to me!
Remember that when God appeared to Moses and Israel - the Israelites heard thunder but Moses heard God's voice and the trumpets!
davidrhee7 9 months ago
@davidrhee7 - Concerning Jesus coming as a thief I invite you to view my video, Is Christ's Coming Imminent? Have you considered that Jesus says in Rev 16 - AFTER the 6th vial - He is going to come as a thief!? i.e. unexpectedly on the world, but not so for those who are awake. See Rev 3.3.
And concerning the days of Noah please see my video, Business as Usual at Christ's Return?
And for good measure you can take a look at my video, Taken and Left at Christ's Return - Revisited.
God bless you!
arovir 9 months ago
you "rapturists" are just another sect; what makes you believe that you have eaten the truth with a spoon?
Ja14111948 10 months ago
so what's the "last judgment" for then?
Ja14111948 10 months ago
@greggmahalo No..that is not true. The books are fictional...but based on true biblical facts as far as theauthors are concerned. Tim LaHaye is an end times specialist and the premises of his books line up with his theology.
Unfortunately his understanding of biblical theology is more fictional and fantastically far fetched than any book could everhope to be
ageofgrace 1 year ago
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777denny1 1 year ago
This is quite a lengthy contrived system to explain a simple passage.
Paul is addressing the resurrection and explaining it to those who are concerned about their dead loved one in Christ. The rapture takes place at exactly the same time as the resurrection at the end of time. Paul is not introducing a new doctrine. However Paul didn't read Left Behind either..........
ageofgrace 1 year ago
@ageofgrace - One of the reasons I need to go into some length to explain things in my videos is because people are reading and swallowing... you guessed it.... Left Behind.
God bless! :)
arovir 1 year ago
It is correct that Christians WILL not be "raptured" before the Great Tribulation Period. Those HEARERS that add or take away from the prophecy of the book of Revelation SHALL receive the soon coming Wrath of Yahuah.
We were instructed to FEAR Yahuah, not just "revere' Him. But the frowardness of most professing Christians will be laid low. ONLY those who endure to the end shall be saved. Type in 777denny in search engine to find: 'Is Barack Hussein Obama the First 'Beast' Spoken...'
777denny
777denny1 1 year ago
@777denny1 - so we're not saved by grace but by performance?
fowzie777 1 year ago
@fowzie777, Most people seem to not understand that grace means "favor." We are saved to DO good works through the Holy Spirit of Elohim. "The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." "Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee." 777denny
777denny1 1 year ago
@777denny1 - and it is God who, "works and wills" us to do the good works. that does not mean that our salvation depends on future performance. also you refer to a parable that Jesus gave to the Jews referring to the kingdom conditions. that is a gospel specifically for the Jews. remember - Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and His message was tailored to them.
fowzie777 1 year ago
@fowzie777,No matter how many times the false teachers of the false gospel of "once saved, always saved" try and pervert the gosel of Yahusha Ha'Mashiach, they will all end up in the lake of fire for preaching a different gospel than the one Paul preached, of which he warned angels and even himself to be ACCURSED if they preached another gospel than the one he first preached. I am extremely familiar with these false gospels, since I came out from among them and sat under their teachings.777denny
777denny1 1 year ago
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@777denny1 - my friend i feel sorry for you...you have no guaranty that you are saved or that you will be saved when you die. you are no better off than the muslims.... the fact is that the gospel preached to the nations is different than the gospel preached to the nation of Israel...the fact is that God saves completely and my salvation does not depend on my performance....i live under grace....you choose to live under law....may God open your eyes..
fowzie777 1 year ago
If you believe in a rapture you have been tricked by men in buildings, the very ones Messiah warned you about deceiving you. The righteous remain, the wicked are removed. To be raptured means one is a tare.
QuietBuck 1 year ago
@QuietBuck - I can't help but think you wrote your comment without watching the entire vid!?! :) I do NOT believe in a pre trib rapture of the saints to heaven. What I do believe in and convey in the vid is that what is commonly called the rapture from 1 Thess 4:17 is the gathering of the saints to meet and greet Christ as He comes post trib. I suggest you watch my vid Taken and Left at Christ's return, which you will find agreeable - the righteous remain, the wicked are removed. God bless you!
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir: There is no pre-trib nor rapture period. Please open a concordance and define what you are reading in 1Thess 4:17. You will realize you are reading the same thing from Ex. and Deut w/ the pillar of Fire. No flesh man is coming on clouds nor are humans going to float up.
- minister of YHWH
QuietBuck 1 year ago
@QuietBuck You are entitled to you own opinion, but I have my own based on what I believe to be sound Scriptural analysis. I do not wish to continue any argument on this because my Bible says to "avoid foolish disputes... for they are unprofitable and useless" Tit 3:9.
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir: What I state is not my opinion, but solid doctrine, unless the Living Word lies.
Pro 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
1Peter 3:15 But set apart YHWH Elohim in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
QuietBuck 1 year ago
@QuietBuck - Amen to these wonderful Scriptures!
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir: con't
Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Master YHWH; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
QuietBuck 1 year ago
@QuietBuck - I have nothing against Ezekiel 13:20.
arovir 1 year ago
I am trying to establish that we the believers who believes and confess with our mouths that the Lord Jesus Christ died and God raised him from the dead and believing that in our hearts are the redeemed ones from all nations, tongues, kindred, people right? With that said it appears that the 24 elders came from the earth and they have their reward prior to any seals being broken. By the way the only time we receive crowns and white robes is at the beama seat of Christ right?
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@TheGrace4all - Let me remind you the non-glorified, non-resurrected martyrs in Rev 6 receive white robes years before they rise at the first resurrection at which time they will stand at the bema seat! For more info concerning the timing of the bema seat I refer you to my video: Is The Judgment Seat Pre- or Post-Trib?
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir True they do. However you are confused the graced church does not need to overcome because we are saved by grace and not of works. The Bema seat is the judgement seat of Christ for believers, and at his second coming not appearing he passes judgement on his enemies such as the AntiChrist which the Blessed Lord Jesus Christ destroys with the brightness of his coming. I gave you hint as to the rapture being his appearing not his coming. The snatchin away of the church was a secret in God
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@arovir You are good at twisting and not focusing at the point at hand. The body of Christ is more of an example like Enoch who is raptured way before any flood occurred and he was singular and he walked with God simply means he believed God and the Graced believers fall in that same category becuase all we have to do today is believe. Reason I use this analogy is that no one can save themselves not with any amount of good works
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@TheGrace4all - I beg your pardon! I am UNtwisting Scripture, and focusing on the coming of Christ. I find it questionable that you focus on Scriptures (Enoch & 24 elders) that don't even mention the coming of Christ!! You ASSUME they are pictures of something you ASSUME is going to happen. The text doesn't say the 24 elders are raptured. Maybe you haven't noticed that in Rev 11 the 24 elders announce the bema seat.
You have not even dismantled one sentence I say in my video or in my replies!
arovir 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@TheGrace4all - You are assuming I overlook the gospel of our Lord Jesus. Far from it! And you are assuming you think I'm a so-called mid-tribber. Far from it. You are assuming too much, like you do with the way you use Scriptures concerning the end-time.
The bottom line is: The only way you will avoid the time of the great tribulation is if you die beforehand. Prepare to suffer for the Lord Jesus! You are hereby admonished. May God bless you with inner eye-sight and reveal more truth to you.
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir Contrary you have not proven anything or dismantled anything I've shared with you. We just woulc agree to disagree and again go back to the basic foundation of the grace gospel which is overlooked by you and your overcomers. Again everything I've shared with you went right over your head. I mentioned Enoch as an example of our rapture because we just have to believe God as did Enoch.(Grace) So based on what you said about the Bema seat you are now a mid seventh week rapture believer. LOL
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@TheGrace4all Enoch was taken WAY before the flood, yes...as in one event had nothing to do with the other. And if we are taken based on "walking with God," then there would have been a LOT more people taken besides Enoch (Job, for one?). God took Enoch because He wanted to. Period.
Enoch was "translated" (Heb.11:5), not raptured. Greek word "mĕtatithēmi," meaning "to transfer, transport." God "took" Enoch (Gen.5:24). He is with God (not in a glorified body).
(cont.)
Jimvesterstallone 1 year ago
An example in the Bible of being "raptured" or "caught [up, away]" is Philip who was "caught away" by the Spirit to another place ON EARTH (Acts 8:39), also still in his flesh.
We who are alive & remain UNTIL Jesus' coming will both be "caught up" AND changed, at the last trump, just after the dead are raised. We will in no way precede the dead being raised(1Thes.4). I want to reiterate. This resurrection - the FIRST resurrection - takes place at the LAST trump when Jesus returns.
Bless you.
Jimvesterstallone 1 year ago
@Jimvesterstallone - I agree with your observations!
It seems to me what some people trip over is that the 1st resurrection is mentioned in Rev 20 after the Glorious Appearing in Rev 19. However, the Greek formulation in Rev 20 shows that John did not witness the actual resurrection then, only the results of the resurrection that happened in conjunction with the Glorious Appearing. I expound on this in my video: "The First Resurrection and The Last Trumpet".
Thanks for your valuable input!
arovir 1 year ago
@Jimvesterstallone Yes and Enoch and Elijah- in fact Jesus rose on the feast of First Fruits. people dont understand the staggered resurrections detailed in corinthians thats why they dont see the pretrib rapture because they think there is only one resurrection at the end. Why would Jesus raise us up to put us straight down again. rapture first, second coming to israel 7 years later- different conditions different times- Jewish wedding model prevails
awaitthegroom 1 year ago
@awaitthegroom Yes! Jesus is the firstfruits...right now the ONLY fruit:
"But now Christ is risen from the dead,& has become the FIRSTFRUITS of those who have fallen asleep..For as in Adam all die,even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order:Christ the firstfruits,afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.Then comes the end.."
Jesus is the FIRSTfruits..We know dead were "raised back to life" in their flesh before Him. But Jesus alone has an incorruptible body.
Jimvesterstallone 1 year ago
Right here in 1Cor15:20-24 we see the order specified: "But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's AT HIS COMING" (vs. 23).
So the "resurrection" spoken of here by Paul is defined in the text as one in which people will receive their incorruptible bodies..unlike ever before in history, with the exception of Jesus the firstfruits. This will be "at His coming." This corresponds with Revelation where we see the "first resurrection" of saints. Bless you.
Jimvesterstallone 1 year ago
@awaitthegroom One more thing! I just noticed you said, "Why would Jesus raise us up to put us straight down again." In the same way that Philip was "caught away" and found in another place on earth, we will be caught up in the air with the Lord, but that doesn't mean we are going to go to heaven. We will rule and reign with Him here on earth for 1,000 years.
Jimvesterstallone 1 year ago
@Jimvesterstallone Not according to the Biblical pattern Why do you think the Lord chose the jewish people to bring His word and His son through? Their festival patterns are the agenda for His plan. The jewish wedding ancient ceremony is the model- hence we are the bride- He is the groom- there is a reason for this. If you study the model you will understand scripture better
awaitthegroom 1 year ago
@awaitthegroom - Adding to Jimvesters excellent comments: Paul outlines three resurrections in 1 Cor 15:20ff. Christ first. Then those at His coming (the dead in Christ - the first resurrection). Then we read: Christ "must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." I.e when He comes He will reign (1000 years) until death is destroyed at the 2nd resurrection - of the rest of the dead. There's no pre-first resurr. before He comes to reign!
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir yes Jesus is the first fruit as scripture says but there have been occassions where other individuals were resurrected in their time- Enoch and Elijah. They are types of the Christ which illustrate the resurrection to come. The jewish wedding is the pattern for the bride- if you study the ancient ceremony you will see why we are called the bride and He the groom. He takes His bride to His fathers house. Other believers ( martyrs) are raised later.
awaitthegroom 1 year ago
@awaitthegroom - Ancient Jewish wedding customs cannot have precedence over the Word of God! As I pointed out, Paul gives no room in 1 Cor 15 for a resurrection of millions of dead saints prior to the resurrection of those who are Christ's at His coming to reign. The same was revealed to John. The resurrection at the coming of Christ post trib in the book of Revelation is stated there to be the FIRST resurrection. In other words no resurrection of millions of dead saints years beforehand! Think!
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir
I am also troulbled when people use Jewish customs and tradition rather than the word of God to depict end time events. I only see ONE resurrection [at the last trump 1 Cor. 15:52] of ALL the saints of God at the return of Christ, and as you say, it is the FIRST resurrection, and this resurrection is AFTER the tribulation of those days. If it is the FIRST resurrection, then how could there have been a resuurection 7 yrs earlier? God bless
sidrojoe 10 months ago
@awaitthegroom Enoch and Elijah were not resurrected as they never died. This is why many people believe they will be the two witnesses.
The dead will be raised/given new bodies for the 1st time in history when Jesus comes according to 1 Cor. If we who are alive & remain will "in no way precede them," then our rapture cannot be before His coming.
I see your reasoning, and I have heard it before. But I do not see Scripture confirming it. Can you point me to Scripture saying what you are saying?
Jimvesterstallone 1 year ago
@Jimvesterstallone Perhaps the word I should use is then raptured.Whether we are resurrected or raptured- both are indicated at the rapture with the dead in Christ rising first then we who are alive will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This is very different to the second coming where His feet land on the mount of Olives and He redeems Israel with (us) His saints who return with hIm
awaitthegroom 1 year ago
@awaitthegroom: Please open a concordance and define what you are reading in 1Thess 4:17. You will realize it is not the painted picture most accept. Never forget Jer 8:8 and 2Tim 2:15.
QuietBuck 1 year ago
@QuietBuck I do have several concordances which I use frequently, and I do not forget the two verses you mention. Thank you for taking the time to write comments on my video. God bless you!
arovir 1 year ago
When you learn to rightly divide the word of truth then will the scriptures make sense 2Timothy 2:15. a couple of questions to all who is listening to this young man. Who are the 24 elders in Rev: 5 and when does the breaking of the seven seals take place? is it at the start of the seventh week or is it in the midst of the seventh week when the great tribulation begins? Well the 24 elders if you didn't know repesents the raptured church. the fit the characteristics or fit the bill.
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@TheGrace4all - Thank you for watching, and for the compliment about my age ( I am almost a decade older than you! lol!) Whatever answers are given by others to your questions, let me say I do know the 24 elders represent the church - according to a way of interpreting Scripture which I find at fault. John in heaven converses with one of the elders; they are 24 individuals! I do not think the church is made up of only 24 people. They DON't fit the bill! The saints on earth in the tribulation do!
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir Figured you would say something like that. Is Paul an elder? the 24 elders have crowns for which they lay at the Lords feet and worship him. Rev: 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation:
well we know that they are people that has been redeemed by the blood right?
See what Paul says in 2Timothy 4:8
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@TheGrace4all - Golden crowns are not an automatic sign of reward. The locusts in Rev 9 have golden crowns!
The song in Rev 5 is rendered differently in different translations. The NASB, CEV, NIV etc etc have "they" and "them", not "us" and "we". Notice, not only the 24 elders are singing. Rev 5:8 talks of "the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders". The next verse says "they sang", i.e. all 28 of them! I don't think we can say the four living creatures are from earth, now can we?
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir Figured you would say something like that. Is Paul an elder? the 24 elders have crowns for which they lay at the Lords feet and worship him Rev 4:10. Rev: 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation:
well we know that they are people that has been redeemed by the blood right?
See what Paul says in 2Timothy 4:8
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@arovir Yes the elders are individuals just like you and me but we are the body of Christ and that is Identified as one believing body right? Do you believe in the gospel of Grace? because the tribulation saints have to over come we don't. We were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Ephesian 1:4, The only people protected during the seventh week are the 144,000 Jewish believers chosen by God from the twelve tribes of Isreal right? So why would a redeemed church be doing there?
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@TheGrace4all - If you do a complete study of those you call "tribulation saints" you will find many characteristics that in no way differ from the saints who were experiencing tribulation in the time of Paul. Do a study of "overcoming" in Scripture. This necessity applied back then, now and until Christ returns post trib. You are right, there is "one believing body" which includes every tribulation saint whether from Paul's time, now or in the great tribulation before Christ's return.
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir I've come to the conclusion a long time from looking at your videos and comments that you need to go back to the basics because you're confusing the Body of Christ with the tribulation saints. Which I do see one thing and that is you are subverting the faith of the babes. To over come sounds like work where as we the body of Christ is saved by grace and not by works to salvation right? Go back to the basic foundation of grace and you might see.
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@TheGrace4all - Have you ripped out 1st John from your Bible?? FIVE times we read here of OVERCOMING the evil one, false prophets and the world!! And have you removed Romans too?? Paul wrote of OVERCOMING evil with good!! Revelation 12 talks of OVERCOMING Satan by the blood of the Lamb. Have you found a better way?? Do you exclude yourself from Rev 21:7?? where Christ says: he who OVERCOMES will inherit the things God has promised for eternity. (It's the same Greek word throughout, btw.)
arovir 1 year ago
@TheGrace4all - Christ gives promises to those in all seven churches in Rev 2 & 3 who "overcome" (Gr. nikao). What it means to overcome in the end-time is made clear later in the prophecy: Rev 15:2: "...victory (Gr. nikao) over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name". Rev 12:11: "...they overcame (Gr. nikao) him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death." Cf. "Be faithful unto death" Rev 2:10.
arovir 1 year ago
Well, he sounds eloquate as he frustrate the word of God to fit what he believes to be truth. After all the eloquate explaination what do we do the words of our Lord Jesus Christ to Paul and John that we are not appointed to the wrath to come. Just ignore it because it doesn't fit with what your wrestling with and some responding to you as if you have sound doctrine. Itching ears I say!!! The body of Christ and our snatching away is before the great tribulation. I have more to say in a few.
TheGrace4all 1 year ago
@TheGrace4all - I agree, God did not appoint us to wrath! But do you know what Paul meant by "wrath"? Study every instance of him using this word. You might be surprised. It has the same meaning as Jesus and John the Baptist put into it (It's NOT a period of time before Christ returns to earth). I stopped frustrating the Word of God to make it fit what I believe to be truth when the Holy Spirit revealed to me I was wrong about my former belief in a pre-trib rapture to heaven of the church.
arovir 1 year ago
@GRANTEDREPENTANCE - It really doesn't matter if a Christian dies before the return of Christ. When He comes in glory after the trib the dead in Christ will rise first and will be caught up together with the living believers who are changed! If that isn't consolation, I don't know what is!! And if the coming of our wonderful Savior doesn't excite a believer I wonder what would!? Blessings to you, sister! :)
arovir 1 year ago
@GRANTEDREPENTANCE - Yes, through the ages millions of our brothers and sisters have been, and still are, cruelly slaughtered for being Christians. If ever this fate should befall me I want to look at the promise of Rev 20:4 I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And THEY LIVED AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST FOR A THOUSAND YEARS :)
arovir 1 year ago
@GRANTEDREPENTANCE - Yes, I know there is SUPPOSED to be two last trumpets, as well as two first resurrections, and two comings, and two of this & that - I'm glad I took off those awful bifocals!! lol!
No you are not strange! Listen to Peter in an end-time context: Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you... but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 1 Pet 4:13
arovir 1 year ago
right on
TheProphetGary 1 year ago
your wrong! Mark 13:32 says "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." if we knew when the tribulation was happening, we would be able to count down down and know when Jesus is gonna come. am i right?
Studmon182 1 year ago
@Studmon182 - With all due respect, siting one verse does not come even close to dismantling anything I present in the video! Look at the context of Mark 13:32. When Jesus said "that day" He was of course referring back to what He is talking about in the chapter i.e. His coming which He Himself says emphatically in v.24-26 is POST-trib!
For more on knowing / not knowing I invite you to view my video: Can Christ Come at Any Moment? If you are a truth seeker you will find the truth if you want it!
arovir 1 year ago
@Studmon182 - I would also like to add this about Mark 13:32. Jesus said not even He knows the day or hour, yet previously in the chapter He told of event after event that will happen BEFORE He comes including those in and after "that tribulation" (v.24, referring back to it's mention in v.19, obviously the last great one). This proves Jesus didn't expect to come back at any time. I hope you begin to see the picture, brother! No serious post-tribber knows the day or hour either!! God bless!
arovir 1 year ago
Amen mate. Your outline is quite clear and not hidden in scripture. I used to try to follow the PreTrib Rapture as it was the only teaching I was presented with. I have since found it to be assumption upon assumption and quite non literal despite the claim that it is literal. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues - Your experience with the Pre-Trib Rapture teaching is mine too. I was brought up with it. And yes, it's only assumed to be in Scripture - taken for granted that it's there!. All the *proof* verses used only assume it's there. Peeling away assumption after assumption, and digging to find the foundation of the pre-trib theory, reveals nothing in Scripture. It appears to be a fabrication derived from a mis-guided form of extreme dispensationalist teaching!! God bless you too!
arovir 1 year ago
@carlmelanson1 - How Obama rose to power does not fit the description the Bible gives concerning the rise of the antichrist. RFID does not fully fit the description of the mark of the beast, at least not at present. And according to Scripture the false prophet is masculine... You didn't comment on the mass beheadings!? The thing you did get right is that I'm a man! ;D I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the time is not now! You will have to wait a bit longer...
arovir 1 year ago
@carlmelanson1 - I'm sorry, but you can not promise that all these things will occur before 2012. You are believing in something that will not happen when you think it should. Jesus is coming soon, but not that soon. Where is the Antichrist and the false prophet? Where is the mark of the beast? Where are the mass beheadings of Christians? What you should heed is what the Bible says will happen to end-time believers before Jesus comes back. Be prepared for tribulation, not a mistaken idea.
arovir 1 year ago
Co 15:52 In a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of eaven to the other2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not comeexcept there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealedthe son of perdition
tonguesofgrace 1 year ago
I don't belive in the rapture. I belive that the so called tribulation will occur before christ's coming. After his coming a thousand years on earth will be the devil's prison.
RUfaggle 1 year ago
@RUfaggle - I too don't believe in a rapture to heaven prior to the so called tribulation. However, as I present in the video I do believe in a rapture of all the saints to the clouds to meet Christ after the tribulation in order to escort Him in His descent to the earth. As for the thousand years, the Bible tells me it will be glorious time on earth with Christ ruling from Jerusalem in Israel while the devil is bound and imprisoned in the pit. God bless :)
arovir 1 year ago
Pray that your flight not be in the Winter or on the Sabbath!
firedawn2u 1 year ago
I think this commentator is incorrect. Christ will come a 2nd and 3rd time. The second time, will be the rapture and the 3rd time He will set up his kingdom here on earth for 1000 years. People read your Bible for yourselves and stop listening to other people. Stop being lazy!!
THEMAN200711 1 year ago
@THEMAN200711 - You say I am incorrect. You have to prove that! Dismantle everything I say and then you can begin to talk about a 2nd and 3rd coming. What you say about reading the Bible for oneself is exactly what I am telling people to do!! There are so many, as you say, who are "lazy" and listen to people who propagate an end-time teaching that the first Christians did not teach. I say to you and everyone else: Go back to the undiluted words of the Lord and His apostles to see the truth!
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir Amen, arovir, and I have just featured your entire channel on my channel hoping to dispense with this pre-trib false doctrine once and for all. Your teaching is sound, systematic and irrefutable to anyone coming to the Word with a sincere desire to arrive at the Truth ONLY and hear a clear and scholarly exposition on the endtimes. I say bravo, and keep up the good, important work. I am SO CONCERNED for all the saints who are living in delusion over this pre-trib *doctrine.*
Mark13vs37 1 year ago
@Mark13vs37 - I say amen to you being 'concerned for all the saints who are living in delusion over this pre-trib *doctrine.*' That's exactly why I am spending time making what I do on YT. Thank you for your support!! :)
arovir 1 year ago
daniel chapter 12 says only 42 months into the tribbulation ...so its not at the end of the tribbulation,,,,.its 3 and a half years or 42 months into the tribbulation.
then jesus will come to clalm us in the rapture.
pureinheart777 1 year ago
@pureinheart777- Daniel 12 says the great tribulation (v.1) will last 3 1/2 years (v.7). V.11 says this will start at the abomination of desolation. Jesus said the same in Matthew 24: the abomination of desolation (v.15) will trigger the great tribulation (v.21). The 42 months are therefore the LAST half of the last seven years. At the coming of Christ immediately after the great tribulation (v.29-30) the rapture will occur (v.31). The rapture is the gathering of the saints to greet Christ! :)
arovir 1 year ago
AWESOME teaching! + Favorited on my channel. Every Christians needs to see this to arm themselves with your cogent line-upon-line refutation of the fanciful pre-trib teaching so prevalent in the Body of Christ. today. I pray many, many souls come to this video + have the scales of their eyes removed so they can prepare themseles, and get the extra OIL for their lamps each of us desperately needs to ENDURE to the END, esp. as this world just keeps getting darker and darker. Bless you, brother
Mark13vs37 1 year ago
@Mark13vs37 - Thank you so much for your encouragement! Yes, we Christians need to go back to the Word and find out what it really says, no matter what the big names in the world of prophecy say. The problem with much of the prevailing end-time teaching is that it takes scriptures out of context, something I have to keep reminding myself to stay in!! lol!
arovir 1 year ago
praise the Lord!
ransom4many09 1 year ago
The resurrection of the dead in Christ is ONE event divided into 2 parts. Those who are asleep in Christ and those in Christ who have not yet died a physical. The word 'then' means immediately. Hence THE RESURRECTION is one event divided into two parts. The Rapture is only the second half of the First half of the resurrection. It is one event that occurs as 'a one and a two'. Not divided by 7 years and in reverse order as pre trib teaches. Excellent video
ALittleBrother 1 year ago
@ALittleBrother - Yes, believers still alive at the return of Christ will experience Phil. 3:21 which says He "...will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body". They will go straight from having a corruptible body to getting their 'resurrection' body without dying! All in a twinkling of an eye!!
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir having been christian and now muslim..I still seek the truth on these matters. I read both books and agree with the teachings of Islam of the bible being corrupted. In the Quran God himself mentioned how man has changed his words...such as what you did in writing Phil. 3:21 what it really says is as follows....Wh shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorius body, according to the workings whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
rsaf18 1 year ago
@rsaf18 - I'm sure you are aware the Koran has different English translations, as does the Bible. This doesn't make the Arabic text of the Koran corrupted; the same is true of the original Hebrew and Greek text of the Bible.
The Word of God came in human flesh and gave His life on a Roman cross to pay for your sins. God raised Him from the dead in order to justify you before God when you put your faith in Him.
He has given us His commands to follow and His Holy Spirit enables us to do so. :)
arovir 1 year ago
i thought that the rapture will happen as the sign of the beginning of the end of the world and that the righteous will be caught up in the rapture and the sinful will stay on earth to face the lords wrath as he returns and destroys the antichrist.
shadow3746 1 year ago
I thought this way half my life: There will be several years between the rapture (to heaven) and Christ's return. Now I am convinced there will be only a matter of hours between the rapture (to the clouds) and Christ's return. I can agree with your sentence - it's only a matter of timing!!
arovir 1 year ago
In the 16th century, a new view of Bible prophecy was devised by a Jesuit priest to stop the Reformers from teaching that the Catholic Church was probably the "whore of Babylon" of Revelation 17:3-6.
In 1591AD, the Jesuit Ribera invented a "futurist" view. Sound familiar? In 1767, another Jesuit named de Lacunza claimed to be a converted Jew named Rabbi Ben-Ezra. Under that alias, he wrote a 900 page book. Then it went thru Irving, McDonald, Darby, Scofield, then printed by Moody.
mattandpatti222 2 years ago
Yes, Christ is returning to earth. Didn't you catch the four times I mentioned this in the video? I also mentioned three times that the saints who will be gathered by the angels to meet Christ in the air space above Israel will then accompany Him in His descent to Jerusalem. I do not support the notion of people flying away to heaven, but the Bible is clear that there will be a massive gathering of resurrected and glorified saints in the clouds in the air to meet Christ when He returns to earth.
arovir 2 years ago
Thanks for your videos! So your understanding is that we follow Christ and his angels to Jerusalem for battle, or to observe, or continue up to heaven for 1000 years?? I don't want to be confused at that moment, thank you. Rev 20:1 says an angel will bind satan for 1000 years, then the books are opened for judgement. Fire then comes down to devour the damned in the "second death" (resurrection) in Rev 20:6,14. In Rev 20:9 are we then "in the camp of the beloved city"?
Blessings
mattandpatti222 2 years ago
Rev 17:14 indicates we will be with Christ when He rides to battle; the angelic armies will assist Him in taking over the planet, Rev 19:18. But I can't envision myself participating actively in the carnage! Anyway, we shall always be with the Lord when He returns, 1 Thess 4:17. He will reign on earth; therefore we are not in heaven for the 1000 years although we can visit! Some of us will be in the camp at Jerusalem I believe and others elsewhere on earth as indicated in Luke 19:17.
Blessings!
arovir 2 years ago
Good video! I think that you accurately describe the Biblical material.
I think that a key to understanding this is in Daniel chapter 7. Jesus refered to himself as the son of man. The son of man receives the kingdom when the 4th beast is destroyed. IMO Rome is the 4th beast and Rome fell a long time ago. But no son of man and no kingdom.
Ebal the Atheist
ebaltrace 2 years ago
Thank you for your kind comment on this video. However, I do not believe that the 4th beast is ancient Rome. From what I understand of Scripture this beast is yet future and will be destroyed at the 2nd coming of Jesus - the one you rightly identify as the Son of Man.
arovir 2 years ago
Excellent!
Now on to preparing spiritually and physically
go to spiritwars but not com, net. and check out preparing for tribulation.
He is coming by 2017.
Are you ready?
Get ready!
mkmason2002 2 years ago
I appreciate your assessment of my material, though I would be careful about calculating a deadline year for the coming of Christ. The only reason I can see from the website is that biblical generation is said to be 70 years. In fact a generation can be up to 100 years according to Genesis 15:13 & 16. We are told the 400 year captivity in Egypt encompassed four generations.
arovir 2 years ago
1st let me say your video blessed me & I'm sure others. I understand your concern for date setting. I too was hesitant to set a timeframe until I viewed Daniels timeline video. Couple that with the meteoric speed of change Obama & the central banksters are imposing on the world it seems certain to me war & famine are at the door. Jesus said to read the signs of the times. Are they not here? My point is it's time to get our spiritual house in order as persecution is coming & it will be fierce!
mkmason2002 2 years ago
I have also viewed the Daniel's timeline videos (several months ago). There are certain things here that can be questioned concerning interpretation. According to this series we should already have entered the last seven years this fall! This was calculated more than a decade ago. Datesetting has been going on for centuries. When will we ever learn? But I agree with you about getting our spiritual house in order. The time is short (cf. signs of the times), but as yet only God knows how short.
arovir 2 years ago
Perhaps we have already entered the trib..
Many important things can be going on behind the scenes. I feel Israel will soon "confirm" the 1967 borders {covenant} agreement. I don't see a peace treaty as many speculate. Bottom line is though we will escape the wrath of the Day of the Lord judgement we will suffer Satan's tribulation. The Laodicean Church, lazy, self centered & materialistic will lose faith if they do not repent & commit to Yeshua as LORD & not Savior alone. Pray fervently now!
mkmason2002 2 years ago
Excellent! Great lesson, Thanks for the word Parousia.
After tribulation, at the first resurrection, its so clear.
JB
Kyoshiko 2 years ago
It's a blessing to hear from you! May the Lord prepare us for the time ahead.
arovir 2 years ago
so when will the 7 trumpets sound? immediately after the tribulation or before the tribulation? and if we will be raptured immediately after the tribulation, will we get to see who the antichrist is before the rapture??
dimestiny06 2 years ago
From what I can see from the Bible the 7 trumpets will sound in the course of the tribulation. The last of these 7 trumpets will sound at the very end. End time believers will see who the Antichrist is because he will be at large in the tribulation; the rapture of the believers occurs immediately after the tribulation at the coming of Christ.
arovir 2 years ago
yes,
Jesus will come sometime after the man of sin has been revealed. If anyone doesn't believe me, then you have not read
2nd Thessalonians 2:1-12
krazeekooladam 2 years ago
John14:2 " In My Father's house are many mansions; If it were not so, I would have told you. I go (heaven) and prepare a place for you. (His bride) 3."And if I go(heaven) and prepare a place for you,(His bride) I will come again and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, (heaven) there (heaven) you(His Bride) may be also. 4. "And where I
go (heaven) you know, and the way you know".
diazfilms 2 years ago
I do a complete exegesis of John 14:2-3 in my video - Rapture into heaven?
arovir 2 years ago
well if its post trib then it kinda takes away the whole sense or urgency to be ready for his coming. if its post trib then you can can start date setting, with all the sings and wonders still to come. Does God judge the good with the evil? So if we are raptured at the end of the trib then right back down we go because Hes
coming down to rule earth. . .whats the up and down for? God is love and HE loves his bride. Why beat her up before the wedding?
diazfilms 2 years ago
Thank you for your questions. The answers to all of them are contained in my other videos.... We must not allow what we think best, or what we want (or don't want), to cloud the plain message of the Bible.
About being ready and knowing the time, see - Can Christ come at any moment?
About God judging, see - Not appointed to Wrath, and Escaping in the Tribulation
About the up and down, see - The Rapture, and The book of Revelation and the Rapture
About the bride, see - Saints in the Tribulation
arovir 2 years ago
Answers in short: I have more urgency to be ready for His coming now than when I was a pretribber. No one will know the time until the time comes, as Jesus conveyed. God does not judge the good with the evil. The "up" is to the great gathering of all believers at His coming. The "down" is to accompany Him in His descent. Christ's bride will be pure when He comes. Persecution purifies like nothing else. Just ask for example Christians from China, Russia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Iran, North Korea etc.
arovir 2 years ago
do u think u could give me an exact date or an estimate of when the rapture will accure??
britnicoley 2 years ago
At this moment in time it is impossible to say when the rapture will occur. Jesus said we are to watch for the signs in order to know (see my vid: Can Christ come at any moment?). If I were to hazard a guess, I think some time within the next 30 years.
arovir 2 years ago
i personally think it could happen within a few years time. why? cuz henry kissinger announced that obama is has come into office at the perfect time to set the new world order. he also said in other news media that obama is primed to create new world order. also, there are many reports of fema camps planted all over north america. these camps are empty right now with guards and will be used to imprison north americans.
dimestiny06 2 years ago
also, it has been said that the people who will be imprisoned into these fema camps will be determined on which ever list (red, blue, yellow) they are on. fema will put red, blue, or yellow reflectors on mail boxes or sidewalks to mark the houses of people to which they are listed in. I DIDNT BELIEVE THIS AT FIRST UNTIL I PERSONALLY SAW A FEW RED REFLECTORS ON SOME PEOPLES MAIL BOXES. i see more and more reflectors every where every day. im convinced these are litterally the last days for us.
dimestiny06 2 years ago
Well, read Revelations 16:15 which is spoken between the 6th and 7th seal which still says that God will come as a thief in the night. This occurs long after you believe he would have come. Furthermore, the rapture occurs at the last trump. 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 thessalonians 4:13-18, 2 thessalonians 2:3, and so much more.
If the pre
BrotherMurray 2 years ago
Yes, pretribbers have a hard time with Rev 16:15 where Jesus is announcing just after the sixth vial (not seal) He is about to come as a thief so his followers are to watch! This ties in with the thief motive in Matt 24:43 where Jesus says that knowing when the thief comes makes us watchful! It also aligns with 1 Thess 5:2 where Paul talks about the coming of the Lord (4:16) as a thief. He goes on to say that because we are not in darkness it won't come as a thief upon us who watch (v.6).
arovir 2 years ago
Furthermore, have you ever heard of a thief coming to offer an escape? Seriously. Thieves don't break into houses to give you a non-stop flight to heaven.
Nice use of the Gospel accounts. Regardless of whether we look into the Gospel of Mark or Matthew, the rapture still occurs "immediately after the Great Tribulation".
BrotherMurray 2 years ago
Pretribbers like to think of Jesus coming as a thief to steal away the church unawares. They fail to see that Christ Himself likens His coming which is post-trib, Matt 24:29-30, to that of a thief v.43. In this very verse He says that the house-owner who knows when in the night the thief comes will of course stay awake. Paul follows up, and says it will be those who are in darkness who will experience Christ's return as a thief, 1 Thes 5:2,4-5, meaning suddenly and unexpectedly. Not so with us.
arovir 2 years ago
The pre-trib theory is purely an inference, based on speculation. All arguments in an attempt to support this view just assume that there is a pre-trib journey to heaven. The actual passage describing the rapture to the clouds, points in another direction, namely a post trib scene as my vid plainly shows.
arovir 2 years ago
Even if an angel does not sound the trumpet of God, which is not an impossibility, the Trumpet here is called the LAST trumpet in 1 Cor 15:52. The post trib trumpet in Matt 24:31 at the gathering of the elect at the coming of Christ cannot therefore come after the last trumpet. Either they are the same or the last trumpet is sounded after the post trib trumpet. I believe the former.
arovir 2 years ago
The seventh(last) trumpet happens before the 7 vial judgements. That is way before the 2nd coming. Your 7th trumpet theory holds no water for a 2nd coming rapture.
RaptureOrTribulation 2 years ago
Who said the 7th trumpet occurs way before the second coming? The Book of Revelation seems to be structured in cycles. The seals show the big picture unto to end. The trumpets show a narrower more detailed picture unto the end. The vials depict an even shorter period leading up to the end. The end = the second coming.
arovir 2 years ago
You words denying the truth of the scripture are telling people that they will not be saved from the judgements of GOD. You are discouraging many from being saved from this. You are the one that is doing harm, not I! We are suppose to encourage souls to accept Yeshuah as their savior and be saved from GODE's wrath. You are telling everyone that they have to endure through all of GOD's wrath first. That is not what Yeshuah wanted you to do!
RaptureOrTribulation 2 years ago
No believer in Christ is appointed to wrath. Don't confuse tribulation great or small with wrath. They are not the same. I explain in my vid Escaping in the hour of tribulation what believers can be exempt from in the tribulation. You are one harming God's people by telling them they will face no global tribulation in the end time.
arovir 2 years ago
The Bible tells of no hiding or protecting of the Christians from the Tribulation except for being removed. During the Tribulation, the bible only talks of Tribualtion saints that are killed in the name of Christ. How is it that there is no reference to protection for us?? Scriptures only speak of removing us through the rapture before judgements of the tribulation occur!
RaptureOrTribulation 2 years ago
The so called Tribulation saints are according to the internal witness of Revelation - the church.
arovir 2 years ago
Hasn't it occurred to you that saints pray from the earth? Their prayers in ch.5 and 8 reach heaven. About Rev 8, I agree, but look at the timing - 7 th trumpet. Why didn't you comment on ch. 13?- the beast making war with the saints, ch.14:12 the patience of the saints not taking the mark v.11. ch.16:6, 17:6, 18:24 all speak of the blood of the saints. And because Rev 19:7-8 shows that the saints are the wife of the Lamb, then she has to have been in the tribulation under persecution.
arovir 2 years ago
Revelation 13:8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. These saints are tribulation saints killed in the name of Christ during the tribulation.
RaptureOrTribulation 2 years ago
Revelation 14 & 15 talks of Tribulation saints once again that die in Yeshuah's name. Revelation 16 speaks of GOD as "Lord of Saints" which has no implication of saints on Earth only. It refers to all saints both in heaven from the rapture and those killed on Earth during the Tribualtion. Revelation 17-18 pertains to the Fall of the Catholic Church and it's persecution of saints through the generations and current.
RaptureOrTribulation 2 years ago
The term "Tribulation saints" is just a made up term to separate them from the church. The internal evidence in the Book of Revelation show that the saints of all ages, including those in the tribulation period, constitute the wife of the Lamb, i.e. the church.
arovir 2 years ago
Luke 12:36 (King James Version) 36"And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately."
How can he return from a wedding and then rapture his church?? You seem to ignore these very important scriptures that proves you wrong.
RaptureOrTribulation 2 years ago
I explained how we know this is a parable. Those who Christ spoke to were the disciples who became leaders in the church. Therefore this parable is directed to the church. The church is to be like men that wait for their lord. It's evident that the wedding here it not literal just like the terms "knocketh" and "open unto him" are not.
arovir 2 years ago
See you then! And thanks for adding this vid among your favorites. Cheers me up after someone wrote something very inappropriate about my vid earlier today.
arovir 2 years ago
As you can see, all the scriptures you mention in all your comments have their legitimate place in the end time scenario. What you haven't done is to take my video point by point and dismantle what I put forth and show me exactly where I am wrong in my use of Scripture. It's no good going around the subject and not deal with what is presented. You don't win a court case with that approach.
arovir 2 years ago
I am explaining that you have misinterpreted your scriptures and ignored the others that strongly suggest the church will be removed before GOD's judgements occur.
RaptureOrTribulation 2 years ago
You still haven't attempted to dismantle the points I make in my vid. I thought like you for 27 years. I've grown up since then. A pre-trib trip to heaven is pure fantasy. You can believe it and teach it until you get blue in the face. It's not going to happen. My job is to prepare the western Christians for coming tribulation. I don't need to dissuade believers from North Korea, China, Russia, Vietnam, Indonesia, Egypt, Irak, Iran etc etc. The pretrib doctrine hasn't got a chance among them.
arovir 2 years ago
There isnt anything in the passage to suggest that John is supposed to illustrate the church. John was transported to heaven in order to receive visions of the end time. He was not only in heaven when he received his visions. Later he received several visions while on earth (10:1-5; 11:1; 13:1; 17:1-3; 18:1). If John does portray the church, then the church will ascend to heaven and descend to the earth again a number of times during the great tribulation. This interpretation is unacceptable.
arovir 2 years ago
In the history of the universe, there is only 2 times that the heavens open up. The time of the Rapture and the time of the 2nd coming. John was taken up and the heavens opened up for him. He experienced the rapture in the future. He then experienced the opening of the 7 seals in the order it would happen after the rapture.
You are fighting with scripture just to deny christians their salvation. There is a reason Satan is making you do this.
RaptureOrTribulation 2 years ago