War is a Force that Gives us Meaning with Chris Hedges

[TomsFriendKake]

Since the American people are once again rejecting the only anti-war / anti-establishment candidate Ron Paul, I will say this, American's deserve what they ask for. When the GOP primary ends and America votes for 4 more years of Obama, I will not have any sympathy for the poor and homeless, the unemployed/under-employed, the people that lose their homes, or cannot feed their children. I have shifted my donating from human causes to disabled vets and lottery tickets. I have given up on people.

[Aiden057]

See the animated version of The War Prayer, posted on youtube.

[bassammaelborno]

(2) .....voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for their lack of patriotism and say that they are exposing the country to danger.

It works the same in any country."

[bassammaelborno]

(1) Nazi Hermann Goering is quoted;

"Why of course the common people don't want war..... not even for that matter in Germany.

But, it is the leaders of the country, after all, who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist dictatorship......

[androydnyc]

the man has become our National Conscience-- thank you Mr Hedges.

[noobler9]

another thing to recall is that iraq war veterans are possibly committing suicide faster than the insurgents are killing them, or were killing them anyone who thinks chris hedges doesn't understand the concept will have to contend with eisenhower, who claimed he hates war as only a soldier can, or sun tzu, who proclaimed no nation has *ever* benefited from a prolonged war

or WW1 not being called the great war after "it is a good thing war is so terrible lest we grow to enjoy it" -general Lee

[noobler9]

@noobler9

you have einstein, who's contempt for soldiers is that they have been given a brain when a spine is all they need

Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living.

Omar N. Bradley

The scenes on this field would have cured anybody of war.

William Tecumseh Sherman

There was never a good war, or a bad peace.

Benjamin Franklin it's the height of stupidity to tell history's heroes cowards

[noobler9]

@noobler9 if you think hedge has a pathos, it's this, war is exciting, when you think of war as a one sided event where you're going to hurt someone who damaged your ego, sure, then you can completely get behind it but in reality, no one lies down to die simply, they will fight back, and you will be dead just as easily as they die, and if not then you will be harmed one way or another veterans abound saying killing someone is the worst feeling, generals reel at the thought of war, carnage

[noobler9]

one must recall that the greek iliad takes place in a war and provides some of the more poignant descriptions of various kinds of people, with the gods representing concepts rather than actual entities in their own way war is the norm for humanity in fact, and the peace most people grew up with in the 90's was a strange and rare thing

furthermore, one will notice that most of the great leaders of history have been soldiers, or in power during war, or owe their success to interacting with war

[noobler9]

@noobler9 the phrase "war is politics by other means" comes to mind, and in fact probably says something about politics, which says something about individuals

[ChaironDeCeleste]

war never changes - yet it changes all survivors permanently.

Thanks for the courage to share this video.

[demarcos69]

I guess I'm like the rest of The American sheep...i was bored and fell asleep while watching this...

[taggline]

@demarcos69 ... sad...but, predictable, given the status quo in the Western common psyche

[givingmantoo]

sounds like a man who needs some help, not a man we should be listening to.

[RatatRatR]

He actually, by about the 30-minute mark, is starting to sound completely pathological to me.

[Myrmecia]

"... War wipes out delicacy and tenderness. Those in war swing from rank sentimentality to perversion with little in between" 40:55

[wordsandcolor]

This is heavy. Indeed life is hard to bear when you choose to take on the weight of truth and a full perspective. I would challenge any lover of war to watch this all the way through. If one can hear these stories and not be moved, I would think there is little hope for you... where is your love for humankind?

[standingwest]

Perhaps this madness continues because we never actually wage war. We liberate, bring the light of freedom, carry the torch of justice, die for a greater ideal, and enable the spread of democracy, sure...But we never wage war...

[standingwest]

This is riveting. His comments on comradeship are dead on...

[RipTheJackR]

@standingwest

probably what struck me the most as well

[Myrmecia]

@standingwest "His comments on comradeship are dead on..." and his observations and interpretations on "smut" (35:20) are astute and doubtless correct.

[writersblock26]

54:13-54:33 "The current warmongers...haven't been involved in war, so what's going on with them? Are they addicted as you and your friends were?"

Very good question.

[hornetobiker]

Shame he chooses to repeat the 911 fantasy. Pause for thought.

[kshackleton]

@hornetobiker

911 fantasy? You don't think that planes were flown into buildings?

[hornetobiker]

Does you know the name of the opening music? Thanks.

[not2tees]

If I compare Hedges' reporting of war to Hemmingway's, Hedges comes out as considerably more realistic and visceral and more completely human - an amazing, and really encouraging fact about this guy, and maybe humanity. The moral dimension merges with the usually demoralizing horror of war and in him somehow still lives. We are compelled to witness, and the witnessing - I hope - is like a bitter but saving inoculation for minds at risk of being infected with war propaganda.

[JamesEPowell]

Chris Hedges is taking on a very tough job. He is telling the truth to people who absolutely do not want to hear it. Even the people who feel that they agree with him will most likely do nothing to change their lives or their country.

[southsydney]

the comradeship on war is what's scary to me. i'm scared normally by the way people behave in groups as it is but add a wartime element and BAM everything suddenly becomes much more volatile and polarizing. there's no room for dissenting opinion, it's always our way or your death.

[southsydney]

Chris starts at about 4:30

[s4njuro]

Why do we keep doing this to ourselves and others? How can anyone who claims to have a religious conviction be OK with this?

[valhala56]

1000 yard stare, Americans say they are peacefull but the evidence is contrary. We love war.

[dansocha401]

This speech is of the greatest offense to the truth.

Hedges appeals solely to one's emotion and passion, but not to one's reason. His opening lines fully reveal his rejection of any sort of reasonable conversation with respect to the nature of warfare. He reduces all warfare to the purely emotional level. It is true that warfare has a indispensably important emotional component, as man is an emotional being. But man also has the ability to reason, something Hedges fails to realize.

[IcarusAllsorts]

@dansocha401 I have to disagree, all war is failure of reason. We have the ability to reason, and that reason hopefully eventually brings an end to war. But reason IN war is reduced to tactics and strategy.

But Hedges is deliberately paining a picture of war from the perspective of someone whose been in the middle of one, emotion is the only way to do that. If you want to see his reason at work you should read his articles and reports.

[dansocha401]

@IcarusAllsorts Thank-you for the reply.

I think it is imprudent to dismiss all war as a "failure of reason." Was it unreasonable to declare war on Germany after the invasion of Poland or Japan after the attack on Pearl Harbor? Was it unreasonable for African national groups (FLN, ANC, etc) to declare war against racist imperial governments?

The answer to these questions is of course no. Yes, the ability to reason should lead one to peace but it is sometimes reasonable to go to war.

[IcarusAllsorts]

@dansocha401 You're right it was reason that led those groups to intervene when they did, and especially in the case of America intervening in Europe during WW2, they were right to do so. But lets look at that example; WW2 came about after Hitler used economic strife in Germany to appeal to the nations disembodied anger, he used that to spin a tale of a Jewish conspiracy, of the German elite betraying the soldiers of WW1. The rise of Hitler, and the war that followed was the failure of reason.

[IcarusAllsorts]

@dansocha401 Sorry for the double reply but the word count can be rather limiting :)

I don't think that every party involved in a war is necessarily there because they're ruled by emotion, but I do think all wars have their roots in a failure of reason and a failure for us to settle our problems and vent our frustrations in a constructive way. And I also think that no matter what brought you to war, once you're their reason is quickly lost. That is why I say "all war is a failure of reason".

[IcarusAllsorts]

@IcarusAllsorts ...once you're there* reason is quickly lost.

[dansocha401]

@IcarusAllsorts To say that that "all wars have their roots in a failure to reason" is unhelpful in trying to understand the true nature of war. Recall that man is not a purely reasonable being. Man has passion and necessarily will fail to reason. Hobbes argued that the nature of man was "solitary, nasty, brutish, and short," with human existence characterized as a "war of all against all." It is only by virtue of man's reason that he elevates out of this state.

[dansocha401]

Respond to this video... All of human existence opposes the view that war is simply "a failure of reason." This is particularly true when one considers the internal conflict that man experiences. That is to say, the spiritual war that exists between one's passion and reason cannot be properly described as "a failure of reason." Man, by virtue of his nature, is a conflicted being. Reason helps him escape the life of "war of all against all," but cannot abolish war completely.

[IcarusAllsorts]

@dansocha401 I agree completely with that statement in fact I'm struggling to see how that is really any different from what I have said. You said "Recall that man is not a purely reasonable being" but that is exactly my point. War is what happens when mans passion does cause us to fail to reason. And as you said again when this happens it will be by virtue of reason that we elevate ourselves out that state.

Maybe it might be better for me to say "War is a failure of reason to prevail."

[dansocha401]

@IcarusAllsorts Yes, I think what we're saying is much more similar than different. Neither of us support war as I imagine we are both lovers of peace. But my main point is this: War, properly understood, cannot ever be abolished. War is not a myth nor a misunderstanding between parties. War has been a part of all of human history. It's not going anywhere. Nations use war to act in accordance with their self-interest. In this sense the decision to go to war can be a calculative, rational and

[dansocha401]

Respond to this video... reasonable decision. In international relations, passion play little significance in determining whether a nation goes to war. What matters is if war is in accordance with the self-interest of the nation. Consider the Bismarckian wars of the 19th century, fought as the results of prudent calculations and reasoning. Far from reason always leading man away from war, in the field of international relations and rational choice, it is reason that can cause war.

[bapyou]

@dansocha401

"Was it unreasonable to declare war on Germany after the invasion of Poland or Japan after the attack on Pearl Harbor?"

No. But the wars Hedges is discussing are wars of aggression propagated by the United Sates, no different than when Germany was the aggressor in Europe.

The United States has no serious goddamend enemies today; there isn't a single military in existence that is the US's match. The extremist Muslims are a joke & in no way constitute a majority of Muslims.

[ChrisDutch]

@dansocha401 So let's hear a "reasonable" discussion of war and when you come with that tell it to the families of the 4,500 Americans who died in Iraq for lies or the families of the innocents killed or driven from their homes in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let me and others hear. War IS an emotional issue, our emotions, not our sense of reason, are appealed to by the "warriors."

[nkafity]

Only those who haven’t experienced the tragedy of war for themselves justify and glorify its existence.

[ObsessiveFetishism]

9-11 - Violence is the way that foreign countries communicate their grievances toward the US, because that is how we have dealt with political establishments we don't agree with, with our comparative advantage, which is violence. This was the most honest lecture I have ever heard about the nature of war and the horrible times we live in today. I consider myself lucky I have never seen these horrors, and luckier I've had in my life a few friends who I have loved on an emotional level most can't

[mistacramer]

Is there a transcript for this? This is a speech as brilliant as it is salient.

[Chinomareno]

Oh come on, I can't believe he's suggesting the 911 attacks were somehow modern warfare and that those people learned violence from the western industrialized world, hence our fault. Indiscriminate violence against civilians has been a tactic for thousands of years, what evidence does he have that we taught them the language of war?

Terrorism isn't new and most modern terrorism isn't even directed at the west.

[Myrmecia]

@Chinomareno " I can't believe he's suggesting the 911 attacks were somehow modern warfare" Isn't he suggesting that those who planned the 911 events had the modern ability to judge where their enemy was extremely vulnerable (a symbol at the very centre of global capitalism) - but not most vulnerable (like hitting superbowl or a children's hospital).

[Chinomareno]

@Myrmecia

"Where else but from the industrialized world did the suicide bombers learn that huge explosions and death above a city skyline are a peculiar and effective form of communication?"

said somewhere in the 8th minute is a horrible and simplistic assertion, one that is completely unfair and actually profoundly condescending. People don't need to take inspiration from our history of warfare to desire large explosions to kill people, they have their own motivations and methods.

[TomFynn]

@Myrmecia It think he's referring to the fact that getting the right spin on things is part and parcel of modern war. It's not what has happened, but how it appears on prime time. And that it only appears on prime time if the images are even more powerful than those we are used to from Hollywood. Plus that the dead have to be ours. Not just some - as George Carlin put it - "brown people".

[yukimuara19]

What confuses me is that people are arguing on Hedge's religious background, rather than delving into his conversation. Yes, Hedges does advocate his voice in a rambling way but it's takes a lot of practice to balance "your voice" and your "references' voice." As a writer, and a speaker, I'm sure we all know it's difficult to keep a balance so that our voice is still evident.

[EnglishProject1984]

49:40

[EnglishProject1984]

9:45

[lolcat23]

it is true, he crones a lot, and it devalues the message, sadly.

[MULESLAX]

people are mean

[MULESLAX]

people are mean.

[darkmiles22]

Of course war is horrible (several estimates put the war dead in Iraq over one million), and there are often ways the government can incite a populace to war too easily. But sometimes not going to war is worse.

When not going to war means leaving a dictator in power who started wars of selfish purpose and persecuted his own people and has the blood of millions on his hands, then not going to war is worse. Well, worse for the oppressed, it would have been to America's advantage to not go to war.

[bapyou]

The war in Iraq is a war of agression as defined under the post-WW2 Nuremburg laws. The U.S. helped draft those laws and, along with dozens of other nations from around the world, it signed those laws. The war is illegal. You cannot find any justification for it. None.

So, the next time you think about telling the world why you think it's justifiable for the U.S. to have invaded a sovereign nation killing hundreds of thousands of its citizens, do us all a favor: Shut the fuck up.

[MrMollypockets]

the first year after 911 the world stood with America.After only a couple of years,the entire world is against America.America,you have to know that the world does not hate American people,but America`s leaders,,,please stop the killing.

[holzpusher]

Hedges' heart is in the right place and I'm glad he's brave enough to offer his views, but listen to the cadence and intonations here -- it sounds like a Sunday sermon (probably because his father was a minister). I've read some of his work and he rants for chapter after chapter while never offering a reference or a footnote.

[tristramshandy3]

It's a nice critique- but it lacks the one thing necessary to achieve any intellectual force or legitimacy- SPECIFICS.

What is he factually wrong about?

Thanks.

[bapyou]

"(Hedges) rants for chapter after chapter while never offering a reference or a footnote"

What references does Hedges need? Hedges has seen the wars he writes about; he has first-hand experience. In that sense his writings are primary journalistic documents.

[Wolfovicz]

@bapyou Exactly. It's a beautifully composed book.

[Oleolenorman]

Bravo Chris Hedges! War is hell on the earth, it is an act of savagery, inspired by Satan, father and protector of all evildoers, nations and individuals. The civilized man is the worse of all savages.

[itsMustacheMarch]

Chris hedges is an atheist

[b3n000]

@Oleolenorman

War is not inspired by Satan. Satan is a figure fabricated by mankind to explain the evil things that we do.

War is an act of savagery invented by animals.

[10Musicpizzaman01]

@b3n000 Last I checked there has never been animal war

[RewInMotion]

@10Musicpizzaman01 ants and chimps. I believe that, depending on how you define "war", most highly social and communal living animals war upon rival groups or at-least use violence to garner dominance over each other and resources. There is room for interpretation here but ants and chimps are a good place to look. Humans, because of symbolic thinking, are far more prone war than all other animals so far -- We have met the enemy and he is us.

[b3n000]

@10Musicpizzaman01

Orly?

Search "Planet Earth "Jungles" " then go to the minute 43. Chimps fighting for land and resources. Notice any similarities?

[10Musicpizzaman01]

@b3n000 So if I'm understanding you correctly you are implying that human beings and animals are the same in the context of violence. Since we as humans and animals are the same who invented the concept of "WAR" in the first place.

[b3n000]

@10Musicpizzaman01

Humans ARE animals. More intelligent than most, but still have the same needs and tendencies. If you believe in evolution, then I don't see how you can say that we as humans invented war, when we gradually evolved from animals.

You seem to have all the answers, so why don't you tell me what you think?

[buceriasbo]

hanging zionist traitors is not anti-semitic !got rope ?

[Loo1cool]

ur soooo SEXY!!!

MORE MORE MORE!

x_x

[Taobert]

Also look at how war is glorified in the media and entertainment, watching Fox news cover it with video game-like effects to turn it into an entertainment with this disconnect from the reality of it.

[unklezors]

Chris is an informer. He is poetic and true. He speaks from his heart. Many say that is irresponsible when it comes to war. It's not that simple. I disagree. There is no logic in war, unless defending. We believe what we are told by our government with no due diligence performed by ourselves. What makes our government so honest. Why do we believe? Sheep we are. And at our own expense while they profit from our support.

[shelterbaynow]

Chris Hedges is the most clear thinking political journalist on the scene today. It's good to have a hero and Chris is one of mine!

Thanks UCSB for having him and posting this speech. I'll share it widely!

[Chancellor521]

This guy is full of shit.

He supports the official story of 911.

[mamagood]

enormously thk u 4 posting this video...=>

[rajasmasala]

gorgeous. thank you. good luck.

[blondesprite]

In my life time, spending this time with Mr. Hedges has been one of the most important and potent investments of my personal time.

[MULESLAX]

@blondesprite You met Chris Hedges? How was he?

[blondesprite]

@MULESLAX

I am sorry, I did not mean to imply I have met Mr. Hedges. I meant the time spent watching him, via the video,.

[MULESLAX]

Oh, In that case, yeah me too.

[chloesd]

does anyone know the name of the man who introduces Hedges? i'm writing a final on this book and i need to quote/cite him. thankssss

[DanMorgan98]

His name shows pops up when he begins speaking. Why don't you learn to read?

[davesevaw]

christains suck

[side1981]

whats that got to with this lecture.

[DefaultPosition]

Hedges is a Christian.

[Mjhavok]

I'm not sure what supernatural beliefs he has though.

[bapyou]

Chris Hedges' father was a Presbyterian minister. Hedges himself earned a master's degree from Harvard Divinity School.

I'd say his belief system is pretty mainstream Christian, unlike the extremists whom he writes about in his book.

[lolcat23]

@bapyou said : I'd say his belief system is pretty mainstream Christian, unlike the extremists whom he writes about in his book.

Are you talking about the american extreme right that made this last war happen, or are you talking about the extreme muslims?

[bapyou]

@lolcat23 "Are you talking about the american extreme right that made this last war happen, or ... extreme muslims?"

The subject of Hedges' book is politically conservative fundamentalist American Christians. In fact, both Christian right-wingers & Islamic radicals promote nearly-identical ideologies. A case could be made that Christian right-wing nuttery started the Iraq War, since no ties between Saddam & Al Qaeda existed )their bloated egoes precluded such a connection).

[Nostatementinthename]

No, he is not. He was brought up as a christian, but now considers himself as "religious in the big meaning of the word". In fact, he is more of an atheist.

[Nostatementinthename]

No, he is not. And also, what if he was?

[Nostatementinthename]

Haha. Yeah, that's intelligently put. I love it when people are unbiased and well-reflected before they make broad, unsurported statements.

[polymath1944]

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then, and only then, we will have peace.

[legennd3]

This really means nothing. I know you posted nine months ago.. i see this jimi hendrix quote everywhere.

What does it mean though? It doesnt mean anything. Soldiers can kill out of love.

[Oleolenorman]

"kill ou of love"!!! What a concept! What distorted mind can conceive such thing?

[bogohoboho]

what he said; organized, industrial violence.

he speaks plainly and we should all listen.

[jinndtonic]

sean, your a douche

[fnchrstphr]

who is Sean ?

[insaneirishman13]

THATS WHAT SHE SAID!!!

[Nesu411]

ppl really need to wake up bfore a fascist state becomes

[bahoss]

Make Love not war.