Sexy sexy rowing. Their catchs are direct and unified with a perfect SPLAT as they all sink in together.
Careful not to confuse functional length with rowing that looks long and elegant. Simple, yet difficult fundamentals will always make boats go fast. Plus punishing power helps.
@pwaldersee are you kidding, criticising them.... they are only the fasest 8 ever
and there is nothing with the rigging, its just tandem, not rushing slide, and although probs techincally shouldnt be looking out of boat that much, its in a race and it helps, and it seams to be working for him
@pwaldersee You blatantly have no clue as to what you are talking about
1: There is no rush in the slide there, you can see how much clearance they are getting on each stroke (It's massive) at a rating of aprox 38.
2: The rigging is a tandem rig, and is part of high end, fine tuned racing
3: If you were talking to the cox about looking out the boat to much... you are retarded, and im not going to say anymore. The stroke seat however, is focused and disciplined well.
even thought the cox is dutch he is way better than ours.... he calls different things, our cox calls the same bloody call, SIT - BACK!!.... and it really is annoying every stroke in a race
@xXhavok1900Xx That's what we have taught our cox straight away. Not only is it annoying, the cox might also influence the rythm, while only the stroke should do so. A good cox only tells relevant information.
I row in California and my stroke is identical to the stroke seats (I'm also stroke seat) and the people on my team say I don't reach far enough for my size, 6'5", I tell them maybe you guys reach to far, because I know if you over compress you put your body in a weak position and lose power. Idk maybe i'm wrong.
Hmm, I'm in a novice boat of 8 guys who have been rowing 1-4 months and the best time we have on the water is 6:30. Nice to know how we rank up to the pros.
@0p3nureyez You petulant ass, I never said we were on par with them. I just said it was nice to know how we compare. If you know anything about rowing you would know there is an enormous difference between 6:30 and 5:50 on the water. Also the conditions were entirely different for the two races.
@matt1746 there's an even bigger difference between 6:30 and 5:22, which is what they went a couple weeks later. i don't see why you'd even compare yourself to these guys as a novice. just... no.
ummm, unless you've set a world record in an eight, don't comment on their technique or criticize them...it's just not right. unless you're stronger and faster, and just generally better rowers than they are...shut up.
its called bucket of block rigging and its not really that uncommon as the person in the back of a block generally has more difficulties with the rate of the strokes
they are actualy going to their chests, but just before hitting it theyre out of the water and clip their blades. Furthermore it depends on your technique and boat setting how high you exactly should go. Don't forget you actualy fall through at your back so the visual is a bit misleading
they're squaring it up early enough, it just doesn't look like it because their blades are shaped slightly different (pause it at 5:21 and look at two seat's blade profile). also the top edge of the inside face of their oars are red, which blends in with the water cuz of the video quality. so the white part that shows always looks thin, like they could be flip-catching. in any case, if you're that fast, any technique you're using must be doing something right.
when i was at school i was in a boat with the same rig except it was a bowside stroke. we called it a triple tandom reverse rig. the only reason we did was for fun and to get the other crews thinking.
they would have done this becuase of combinations and weighting of the boat to put the heavier people in the center of the boat and general combinations that work well together (yes and it also looks hella awesome)
its called a bucket (its not necessarily russian =D). Why it is rigged like this is so that they can have stroke seat and bow seat both be on the same side, in this case port. 8 is port, 7 and 6 are starboard and 5 is port and then its the same. It's hard to row with sometimes
i think this is the triple bucket rig brother not a big deal its a crew preference some crews adapt in a few days some never do and revert back to just port starboard, i dont think it makes a difference leave it to the muscle behind the oar right ;)
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That's a very valid point, but I had to cut out a few seconds of racing near the end, where the shot changes from in-boat to from-shore. So the rate is probably real. Cheers, J.
you try getting the same near 50/50 forward and back splash that he gets. that means you take the catch at the best moment possible, at your full reach. Especially rating high 30s
hmmm, telling off Neiko Reinks, one of the best rowers ever to have graced this earth about his catch, which looks lightning fast to me (former elite rower).. Interesting
the stroke seems to be taking fine strokes to me. im only a novice but we've been told when you start the boat you're meant to do shorter strokes for the first few (say at 3/4 slide) just to get some pump and the boat moving. In the race's main course his strokes seem to be fine.
I actually think that is one of the great things about it, because it means that there is less pretence. If somebody rows, they are in it for the sport, not for the image
This is a video of one of the fastest eights ever, the '99 Dutch men, at the Koninklijke in Amsterdam, just a few weeks before they rowed their world record. There's a link to the hi-res originals in response #3, on the oldest comments page.
Congratulations to the Stroke and the rest of the crew. A great demonstration of keeping the rate high but keeping the relaxation. The smooth shift in power at the end was awesome. A great lesson.
Yea, this is an odd rig. We used to do a similar one, tho... 8 was bow, then stroke, stroke, bow, then stroke rigged bow four. Worked well for our crew... never figured out why!!
I'm just a novice rower, but wow this is intense! 0.0
maddieisluvible 1 month ago
love the cox
rohangiga 2 months ago
I started rowing a month ago, love it :)
zendium91 3 months ago
Captain Jack Sparrow would be proud of this rowing.
TheMummy516 4 months ago
Sexy as hell
crazypianolady 5 months ago
Duble bucket ftw!!!
OOTman00 6 months ago
dude... is that double bucket rigged? holy crap
gurban333 8 months ago
their stroke rating makes me want to cry.
amymegan16 8 months ago
my boat gets roughly 1/64th of the puddle clearance of this one
ledjovi54 9 months ago
canada your hats are not uniform
RbVDK 9 months ago
i miss rowing
RbVDK 9 months ago
paaaiiinn
Blazethecraze1 9 months ago
Sexy sexy rowing. Their catchs are direct and unified with a perfect SPLAT as they all sink in together.
Careful not to confuse functional length with rowing that looks long and elegant. Simple, yet difficult fundamentals will always make boats go fast. Plus punishing power helps.
dointhedeed1 10 months ago
Comment removed
pwaldersee 11 months ago
@pwaldersee are you kidding, criticising them.... they are only the fasest 8 ever
and there is nothing with the rigging, its just tandem, not rushing slide, and although probs techincally shouldnt be looking out of boat that much, its in a race and it helps, and it seams to be working for him
rohangiga 10 months ago
@pwaldersee You blatantly have no clue as to what you are talking about
1: There is no rush in the slide there, you can see how much clearance they are getting on each stroke (It's massive) at a rating of aprox 38.
2: The rigging is a tandem rig, and is part of high end, fine tuned racing
3: If you were talking to the cox about looking out the boat to much... you are retarded, and im not going to say anymore. The stroke seat however, is focused and disciplined well.
Learn before commenting
SCFernandez11 10 months ago
@pwaldersee this boat broke the world record, I think they can row however they want haha
duvall1306 8 months ago
wat voor een tempo is dat? stroke rate?
Tischlampensack 1 year ago
i like the rig on this boat on my 8 i cox we do a port side bucket rig
DyeHawk 1 year ago
they say, it s one of the best boats ever :o
Abweisung 1 year ago
They have virtually no tap down, and they draw quite low........interesting
Rmcaw 1 year ago
@Rmcaw you dont need much tap down when you accelerate all the way through the finish
friendmeph 2 months ago
this is great rowing! love the holland acht!
if you like rowing, check out my channel! ;)
njordpromo10 1 year ago
World record Plodviv WJR 1999 8+ POL 5:19,...???
ebusaje 1 year ago
Awesome rowing... great job by stroke Nicolaas ("Nico") Hessel Rienks :)
Veslanjejezivot 1 year ago
even thought the cox is dutch he is way better than ours.... he calls different things, our cox calls the same bloody call, SIT - BACK!!.... and it really is annoying every stroke in a race
xXhavok1900Xx 1 year ago
@xXhavok1900Xx That's what we have taught our cox straight away. Not only is it annoying, the cox might also influence the rythm, while only the stroke should do so. A good cox only tells relevant information.
donaldkreiken 1 year ago
Comment removed
pwaldersee 11 months ago
there not that fast
benahawk 1 year ago
@benahawk They set the world record.
LNOL 1 year ago 2
LENGTHZYAH!
Langa halla!
eitzyah!
what is this wonderful language
nathanblais45 1 year ago
@nathanblais45
its dutch ;)
BapaoBroodje 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@nathanblais45
its dutch ;)
BapaoBroodje 1 year ago
It's called fred rigged
SW360 1 year ago
@SW360 we call it the triple bucket
nathanblais45 1 year ago
why are both the 6 and 7 starboards?
Turk435 1 year ago
1 stroke per second. impressive.
they kinda slow down after 2 minutes, though.
Coffeevaccine 1 year ago
@Coffeevaccine
Well... slow down as in still exremely fast. They got the world record, remember?
nechiken 1 year ago
I row in California and my stroke is identical to the stroke seats (I'm also stroke seat) and the people on my team say I don't reach far enough for my size, 6'5", I tell them maybe you guys reach to far, because I know if you over compress you put your body in a weak position and lose power. Idk maybe i'm wrong.
crewchamp13 1 year ago
Hmm, I'm in a novice boat of 8 guys who have been rowing 1-4 months and the best time we have on the water is 6:30. Nice to know how we rank up to the pros.
matt1746 1 year ago
@matt1746 my fucking ass a bunch of novices are keeping up with the pros.....I guarantee this crew is doing longer pieces than you.
0p3nureyez 1 year ago
@0p3nureyez You petulant ass, I never said we were on par with them. I just said it was nice to know how we compare. If you know anything about rowing you would know there is an enormous difference between 6:30 and 5:50 on the water. Also the conditions were entirely different for the two races.
matt1746 1 year ago
@matt1746 there's an even bigger difference between 6:30 and 5:22, which is what they went a couple weeks later. i don't see why you'd even compare yourself to these guys as a novice. just... no.
friendmeph 1 year ago
thats one good stroke...
Ischnitzelyou 1 year ago
Wow... Not sure about 7's technique on the finsih, but their endurence is epic...
Kibster500 1 year ago
your racing start is a shit
wwemjhardy 1 year ago
u must be retarded it was mad good
absegamifrosh8 1 year ago
that was actually incredible... so...
pace7759 1 year ago
Lot of catch from seven.Otherwise by this video best eight Ive ever seen
shnookiebums 2 years ago
ha ha ha ha!
tomgoldswain2 1 year ago
ummm, unless you've set a world record in an eight, don't comment on their technique or criticize them...it's just not right. unless you're stronger and faster, and just generally better rowers than they are...shut up.
chinggiskhaan123 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
their catch is too fast.
MyTwistedIllusion 2 years ago
ya and it looks like their strokes arent long enough... but they're the best there is... so yanno...
1GreenDayIsTheShit1 2 years ago
their strokes are longer then those of any other crew,
they just don't linger at the catch...
ETAG231189 2 years ago
a catch can never be too fast...
rehreh222 2 years ago 23
fuck they're moving fast
sul0002 2 years ago 3
why i love rowing no matter what level of fitness your dead at the end of a race.
juliscipi 2 years ago
Comment removed
perkiomenville 2 years ago
thats amazing how quick they are in the water
pickleandcheese 2 years ago
That was really intense! The video showed me just how fast that thing moves. Awesome!
rickumali 2 years ago
Rowing is cool i ow myself so this is fun to watch
Castillo62794 2 years ago
Scullings for women and pussies. :D
Bballdude997 2 years ago
tell that to rob waddell retard
AxelPRC 2 years ago 3
It was a joke, I scull and sweep. They're both physically exhausting.
Seriously people, calm down.
Bballdude997 2 years ago
not a very good one
gethighnodrugs 2 years ago
Fanatic coach :D I row myself so this is great to watch :) Go Holland!!
quantaquenya 2 years ago
Wow, that's pretty smooth stuff!
I guess at that rating, the stroke length would have to be as short as that...
uplah 2 years ago
im new to crew, whats with the un even riggers? two starbords in a row
????
Garrett4prez 2 years ago
its called bucket of block rigging and its not really that uncommon as the person in the back of a block generally has more difficulties with the rate of the strokes
theMMaI 2 years ago
Or tandom rigged
antz1000 2 years ago
Stern four is tandem rigged from stroke it goes
Stroke
Bow
Bow
Stroke
Bow
Stroke
Bow
Stroke
Stinkfist555 2 years ago
Sorry it goes
Stroke
Bow
Bow
Stroke
Stroke
Bow
Stroke
Bow
Stinkfist555 2 years ago
lol, i'm pretty sure it doesn't go stroke, bow, bow, stroke,bow, stroke, bow, stroke
simply for the fact that that would be way too many stroke and bow seats in one boat
Dunkster91 2 years ago
LEARN TO COUNT!
sluttox 2 years ago
trooper.
mattwinter47 2 years ago
yes, there are...
it's 8 rowers, I count 4 times stroke, and 4 times bow
ETAG231189 2 years ago
im always told to draw into my chest but these guys look like they are drawing into thei balls....any comment?,,,,,,,,,,,
kmacsound 2 years ago 2
they are actualy going to their chests, but just before hitting it theyre out of the water and clip their blades. Furthermore it depends on your technique and boat setting how high you exactly should go. Don't forget you actualy fall through at your back so the visual is a bit misleading
theMMaI 2 years ago
christ you cant even see them square the blade
dinkster12 2 years ago 2
well they didnt get that big of a lead. must of been some tough competition.
hotty198 2 years ago
LOL 1:32, the 7 seat slapped his oar on the water going up the slide... i guess even the best make mistakes..
spitboi7 2 years ago
cox sounds like a pirate imo
lifeisemo666 2 years ago 26
@lifeisemo666 HAHAHAHA i agreee "aAAAArrrgg my mates there is booty on the finish, now row dogs!!! .....arrr ya aarrr ya "
krle89ns 1 year ago
@lifeisemo666 So far most of the coxants I've heard sound like pirates.
RidgeRacerLord 4 months ago
i went to henley and raced in the fawley cup XD
almost made it to semi's but 2 man crabbed 600 out. we had the fastest 1k times for that event.
alemeno 2 years ago
very clean! especially with that wind. Very quick and tidy catch as well
Luv2Laff26 2 years ago
their stroke seat has a great farmer's tan.
FiddleFix22 2 years ago 2
you mean rowers tan. its kinda hard to avoid lol
jakieberres 2 years ago
They're all probably well under 6.
XAFOXTAOX 2 years ago
Re:1Green because its windy ass hell... and its not a tailwind
shutskate 2 years ago
why don't the square up early? diff style?... or sumthin
1GreenDayIsTheShit1 2 years ago
they're squaring it up early enough, it just doesn't look like it because their blades are shaped slightly different (pause it at 5:21 and look at two seat's blade profile). also the top edge of the inside face of their oars are red, which blends in with the water cuz of the video quality. so the white part that shows always looks thin, like they could be flip-catching. in any case, if you're that fast, any technique you're using must be doing something right.
ramust 2 years ago
the blades are in red white and blue at both sides
ETAG231189 2 years ago
Wind I think.
EEQUALSIDONTCARE 2 years ago
when i was at school i was in a boat with the same rig except it was a bowside stroke. we called it a triple tandom reverse rig. the only reason we did was for fun and to get the other crews thinking.
ricstar27 3 years ago
they would have done this becuase of combinations and weighting of the boat to put the heavier people in the center of the boat and general combinations that work well together (yes and it also looks hella awesome)
bubajofe 2 years ago
Hey, it's bucket rigged! I've only seen that once before.
And that coxswain is really good. Kudos to you, from a fellow cox. :]
iamtheseiuchi 3 years ago
Yeah the Cox is good. :)
~Norx
Norxyan 2 years ago
is it just me or are they rigged extra low? seems like they're almost finishing into their laps..
22512587 3 years ago 2
They are. Still, if you can keep the set well enough, low rigging can be beneficial by requiring less vertical movement of the blades.
zed141 3 years ago
im in a senoir schoolboys eight, they would shit on our competition easy.. including us
bl1ssneso 3 years ago
they're the second fastest eight ever...
ETAG231189 2 years ago
try belen jesuit rowing. coach rowed in olympics and coached olympics for cuban national team under russian order. BEAST!
jmunoz99 3 years ago
OMG JOSH..STFU
Eddysii12 3 years ago
would really suck to catch a crab at tht speed=P
mandaant 3 years ago 2
You'd get knocked the hell out maybe dislocate a shoulder or sum in the process:P
ManusFrigus 3 years ago
how is that boat rigged
MrTrueValue 3 years ago
its a russian style, but thats all i know
15twentyLTD 3 years ago
its called a bucket (its not necessarily russian =D). Why it is rigged like this is so that they can have stroke seat and bow seat both be on the same side, in this case port. 8 is port, 7 and 6 are starboard and 5 is port and then its the same. It's hard to row with sometimes
lanismyBFF123 3 years ago
some arguments for this are stability and maintaning a more constant rate through the whole boat. The dutch teams are always the best ofcourse ;)
theMMaI 3 years ago
i think this is the triple bucket rig brother not a big deal its a crew preference some crews adapt in a few days some never do and revert back to just port starboard, i dont think it makes a difference leave it to the muscle behind the oar right ;)
have fun on the erg this winter!
nathanblais45 3 years ago
hah try sarasota scullers :)
laurenandchrissyshow 3 years ago
arrogant.
riverview has the best chance of winning next year, we just got 2 new olympic rowing coaches and we are training 9 times a week.
SamTibbs 3 years ago
We're winter training now, so we have two or three a days :(
haloabc1234 3 years ago
sweet rowing? shore school 2008 head of the river...we won the six from six and the 1st iv smashed the record and their rivals by about 8 seconds
chewbacca1442 3 years ago
Thats crazy. So perfect.
p.s. Check out CCGS 10 As 2008 to see an awesome crew.
thepower3 3 years ago
That's sweet rowing!
thepower3 3 years ago
It is Nico Reinks : 2x Olympic Champion for Holland on stroke ! This man can row !
ALLDALI 3 years ago 4
insanety .. if u wanna c a good crew full of year 10s all 14 and 15 years old cheak out ccgs rowing ...
SammyJSTJ 3 years ago
omg that stroke is insanee
lol yu gotta love rowing ♥
randexthespandex 3 years ago
goddammmmn fast rate
aburkelcat 3 years ago 2
holy shit that was fast
cerlycacktis 3 years ago
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Wrmedmmung14 3 years ago
i bet they get some wicked blisters on their hands!! that was inclreadbly fast the stamina is amazing
abominableangel 3 years ago
they don't get blisters anymore
when you row this way, you train 15 times a week
these guys grow so much callus they have to cut it away with a knife every two weeks or else it gets too thick
to move their fingers properly
ETAG231189 3 years ago
my bro rows an 8 boat
skaterexplain 3 years ago
awesome vid...I always wondered what the cox saw during the race =)
clearedapproach77 3 years ago
Dam, rowing is the best cup of coffee anybody can have at work.
ruskidima 4 years ago
very true, oh so very true
ManusFrigus 3 years ago
my video says they end at right around 5:49. why are 7 and 6 seat both starboard by the way?
chaudoinker89 4 years ago
its called a bucket rigging, and if you look closely, you can see that the 5 and 4 seats are also bucket rigged
boarder162 4 years ago
actually not called "bucket" rigging. Its called a tandem rig. Invented by an italian (it can also be called italian rig) Bucket just sounds weird...
djraimundo6 4 years ago
But the race doesn't start till 0:08
ChrisKnott 4 years ago
There bucket rigged
Spiresx 3 years ago
kamon argentinaaa
santysau 4 years ago
This footage is playing faster than they were actually going. At the end it gives their time as 5:49.6 but it only takes them about 5:38 in the video.
I think that is why it looks like they are rating 38, when it is more likely they were rating 36.
ChrisKnott 4 years ago
That's a very valid point, but I had to cut out a few seconds of racing near the end, where the shot changes from in-boat to from-shore. So the rate is probably real. Cheers, J.
rowingfan 3 years ago
it's cut a little,
this was their actual pace
ETAG231189 2 years ago
otherwise the sound wouldn't match, or if it would the cox's voice would be sounding weirdly high pitched
ETAG231189 2 years ago
I am tickled by all the comments critical of what is conspicuously a class act !! Pure team sport at its best.
basplunk 4 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The stroke is slaping at the water far to often -_-. Not efficent
Ilissill 4 years ago
Thats called the catch - a small backsplash is required for an efficient stroke.
loxta 4 years ago
And i'm sure you could do much better than an olympic rower
friendmeph 4 years ago 2
you try getting the same near 50/50 forward and back splash that he gets. that means you take the catch at the best moment possible, at your full reach. Especially rating high 30s
hapul 4 years ago 2
hmmm, telling off Neiko Reinks, one of the best rowers ever to have graced this earth about his catch, which looks lightning fast to me (former elite rower).. Interesting
onetell 3 years ago 5
the stroke seems to be taking fine strokes to me. im only a novice but we've been told when you start the boat you're meant to do shorter strokes for the first few (say at 3/4 slide) just to get some pump and the boat moving. In the race's main course his strokes seem to be fine.
rmwc 4 years ago
Holy crap, their start is so smooth...
They make those high stroke ratings look so smooth/slow/easy.
friendmeph 4 years ago
does anyone else notice that this seems to be a crazy bucket rigged 8?
dkeating91 4 years ago 3
crew is the hardest sport ever and it makes me so angry that we barely get any publicity at all. can any1 plz explain this?
smartguy1123 4 years ago
I actually think that is one of the great things about it, because it means that there is less pretence. If somebody rows, they are in it for the sport, not for the image
thisisinstant 4 years ago 2
uv got a really good point there, i never thought about it like that
smartguy1123 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The stroke should make bigger strokes, and talk less, the only one who talks should be the cox
2007mat 4 years ago
He isn't talking... all u can hear is the cox... And i wouldn't criticize an Olympic rower about his strokes either...
loxta 4 years ago 4
dude, this guy won olympic gold, and rowed an word record. I Think he knows what he is doing.
jangroningen 4 years ago 3
twice olympic gold in both sculling and sweep
ETAG231189 2 years ago
he's not talking numbscull,
and his strokes are the longest out there
ETAG231189 2 years ago
Blimey this crew is sat at 38 strokes / min and it looks like they are rowing at 28!
Rower64 4 years ago 2
it's not 38 strokes/min
it's even worse
they are rowing an 41 strokes/min
ETAG231189 3 years ago
the stroke should take bigger strokes
yoastinator 4 years ago
Whats that strokemans name, Niko Rinks or something, isn't it?
thisisinstant 4 years ago
Nico Rienks: Gold Olympic Games 2x and 8+
FreakDLrowing 4 years ago
sweeping sucks...i perfur sculling myslef...feels like your going much faster.
real athletes row.
mad4you223 4 years ago
Real athletes row, real rowers sweep
I'm joking, sculling is cool too
thisisinstant 4 years ago
this is fukn nothing compared to us surf boat rowers.
gloobleflooble 4 years ago
Eh...no
There isn't anything in the world that rowing is nothing compared to
thisisinstant 4 years ago
The Dutch men. A small country, but they are the greatest at rato. They are still 4th on football world ranking too.
In sports the Netherlands are a great country.
Sytton 4 years ago
This is a video of one of the fastest eights ever, the '99 Dutch men, at the Koninklijke in Amsterdam, just a few weeks before they rowed their world record. There's a link to the hi-res originals in response #3, on the oldest comments page.
rowingfan 4 years ago
You need to be in a well balanced crew to appreciate sweep. Go get a co-ordinated friend and row a pair.
Thesuperchang 4 years ago
I row in a 8 rigged like this, its hard though figuring out who needs to row when some people drop out, it works out well for us though.
pippa21 4 years ago
sweep is for real men.
22512587 4 years ago
i hate sweep.. prefer sculling, but the vids cool
chloehoare123 4 years ago
gettt yaa, gett yaa, gett yaa
jeffries69 4 years ago
Congratulations to the Stroke and the rest of the crew. A great demonstration of keeping the rate high but keeping the relaxation. The smooth shift in power at the end was awesome. A great lesson.
martinH270362 4 years ago
Yea, this is an odd rig. We used to do a similar one, tho... 8 was bow, then stroke, stroke, bow, then stroke rigged bow four. Worked well for our crew... never figured out why!!
andyTrott 4 years ago
i agree its 6 minutes just awesome
naturakid 4 years ago
Ive only ever been in a skul or a double so ive never had a cox
jobjackobrien 4 years ago
that's a funny-ass rigged boat. 7 and 6 are both bow seats.
garth9 4 years ago
We used to do that. It was really weird.
KillerPandaCrew 4 years ago
have u never seen an eight rigged in tandem bofore?wot about a four?
McFrosty2014 4 years ago
a four, yes, but never an eight.
garth9 4 years ago
they have two tandems behind eachother
ETAG231189 3 years ago
go empachers!
fallenpumpkinhead 4 years ago