Re: Ban the burka

[ItsAllAboutPie]

well your an idiot.

[natedaug1]

You seem like an Objectivist. Like in the Ayn Rand sense.

[vaguelyhumanoid]

@natedaug1 He sorta is. He incorporates a lot of ideas from it.

[natedaug1]

@vaguelyhumanoid Cool.

[Deadleader555]

What i am against is "sharia law" that forces wyman to wear burkas... Ofcourse i'm also against the dictatorship of pseudo family values.. and repression of wyman and children, but this can be dealt with education and voluntary "mental-liberation"... But if burka is banned, i would understand, and i dont think i would have a problem with that to be quite honest.. In the same way if they banned a KKK robe, i would disagree, but i woudent fight for the right of wearing such shit..

[Deadleader555]

Its quite dificult to examinate this topic to be honest... Both ways would be dictatorial... allowing fascist man to opress their wyman and children.. or allowing the government to posses someone's right to wear Burka by free will.. i dont know what's worse... But untill then, i'll have my freaky opinion of allowing wyman to wear blankets or choose for self defense, if they dare.. =P

[Deadleader555]

I watched ur video and Pat's video, and i have to say both of you have great points.. The government shoudent dictate what people should wear, they should have the right to look like idiots... But at the same time, i think every wyman should have the right to self defense against male opression... There are many wyman who are indeed forced to wear theese ninja blankets.. I'm not saying the government should do it for them, but it should defend and promote their freedom to do so..

[blackjin2007]

Soo why is it people are soo worried about these women in burqas? what does it matter to you(the people who want to see the "end" of the burqa? i mean people say because these sisters are oppressed...well theres millions of women that arent muslim that are oppressed over here why are you making videos or comments about them? wanting to help them? haters..

[XOmniverse]

So if I talk about a specific instance of female cultural abuse, I've somehow sanctioned all other forms of abuse? That's a pretty absurd claim.

I was responding to a video that was making a ridiculous claim.

[blackjin2007]

Your right it was making a ridiculous claim, and I saw your video. thats good you recognized that. Also this comment was addressed to the people that commented saying "I am for the ridding of the burqa, but not by government intervening" But what is this female cultural abuse, i mean cultural female abuse, that it is you are talking about? You lost.

[ezdish]

its cuz i dont feel safe. Can anyone in a burka be able to use another burka womans drivers licence. u are just ignorant to society

[DevilWomanCake]

what if someone wanted to wear the burka as a halloween costume?

what If someone has a pimple, or a bad hair day?

What If someone wanted to wear a ninja mask? ninja masks are cool. They're like burkas, but not quite.

[AlRasuwl]

VERY well put!

[danielsondanielson]

The problem of burka ban was treated in this video only in terms of relations btw State and Individual (may State impose some dress code on Individuals, or not?) But you can see the problem also in terms of relations btw State and Family (may State allow some Families impose a dress code on some of their adult members, or not?) Individuals must first be liberated from family tyranny, and only afterwards also from state tyranny. So, may you make any decission here, it'll always be controversial.

[XOmniverse]

The less easily the government can identify people, the better IMO.

[Agitpropist]

Then, ban the kippah! Then ban boy shorts!!..... OH NO!!!!!

[GracefulTigress]

I'm wearing burka and i'm loving it!!

fuck u bithcez!!

[fede2]

there is a dress code here in argentina. elemetary school kids have to wear this white robe thing.

[qtronman]

I agree with you here; I accidentally 5-stared that video.

[tyrbolo]

You may wish to back up far enough to see how

current dress codes are already enforced by

government. Since governments primary function

is defense, Condell wants to see it perform that

function.

Atheism is no guarantee of rationality.

[Elaina43]

I agree. Faved.

(FYI - I faved Pat's vid, too because thinking is always a good thing.)

[ronrutherford]

Couldn't agree more. I've argued with lots of people about this, seems very few actually get it.

[megamanium]

How could nobody tell that Pat Condell was NOT endorsing a mandatory dress code. He was simply making a point that if you are already going to enforce stupid laws, that you should make stupid laws that he likes.

Can nobody address the actual argument in Condell's video about the oppression of women. The points about a dress code were totally emotional and NOT rational arguments. This was obvious to me and it annoys the shit out of me that no one gets that.

[BobChaos23]

I understand your point, too bad nobody else wants to address it....would have been interesting to have an actual discussion on the matter. Better to just take the whole thing literally, pretend the burka is just some fashion choice, that the women who wear it fear for their safety if not their lives, being incapable of ever showing the least defiance, and call it a day. I think I am done here, no point.

[MaikUniversum]

yes, pat condell wasn't very rational when he sugested to ban burka.. :) I agree with you.

[AnarchoSolipsist]

You just don't get it Xomniverse. Not wanting to ban the burka = loving muzzies & hating the western culture.

[zaziguad]

I think the government should ban the 'forced' wearing of the burka.

Although I'm undecided on whether it's just an article of clothing, it's anti-social as well.

[Baabaloux]

Alot of individuals get angry when they see religious people forcing their believes on others with violence. But they are using the violence of the government

to impose their own values on others. It shows that God is a symptom and not the disease.

[poobert]

Down with pants.

[RadicalDemocracyNow]

You made some great points in this video. Thanks for uploading this.

[AnarchyInYourHead]

I think he was more interested in using the statement "ban the burka" simply to strengthen the ideas that he was putting forward about the oppressiveness of it. I didn't really take it too seriously as an actual legal proposition. I don't think he really expects that to happen.

[TruthHidden]

That is insane. I suddenly feel the strong urge to buy a Burka and wear it around.

[banjofiddlee]

With his 'ban the burka' vid he began to resemble that ubiquitous caricature of a roughly conservative bitter old doddering fool that is so often used against him.

Perhaps it's a momentary lapse

[brainpolice2]

I was pretty disappointed by Pat's video as well.

[mcphilthy]

Great vid as usual.

[philateliceun]

What a ridiculous statement. So you would allow shirts that say woman are not equal? Serious address this point. If the Burka souldn't be banned because of civil liberty then so shouldn't swastika's be banned or shirt's that say (forgive me in advance) "No Nigger in my store" or "No skin, No rape". What the fuck is this about? We have fucking dress codes. You are not allowed to have a ski mask in the bank. You are not allowed to dress as SS officers. What is the difference with Burka's?

[brainpolice2]

All of those others things should be perfectly legal as well.

[philateliceun]

Ok, let me get this straight. You think it should be legal to wear your Auswitsch pyjama's in public? You don't think that we are civilized and we can agree that for just the fucking sake of decency we just don't wear things like Swastika's and Jew stars and Shirt that say woman are objects. We agreed that this is so against our viewpoints that we make it illegal. I belief in freedom but everything is relative. You can't be allowed to do everything.

[jparagons]

Define "in public", then. The vast majority of cases are in places like banks or stores or restaurants where it could be entirely up to the owner of the establishment whether to allow someone to wear offensive clothing.

[philateliceun]

Yeah maybe they could but the point is that it is offensive and preaches things we don't agree with. I think, I don't want to claim 100% of the nation disagrees with the woman oppression but it is safe to say that the vast majority is against something like that. And you agree right? The oppression of woman is not good and therefor the burka is not good. It is a statement, it is not just a piece of clothing.

If it was just for the sun it would be a whole other discussion.

[Rose0883]

Well, that would certainly make it a lot easier to see what cards (aka beliefs) someone puts on the table, wouldn't it?

I think I prefer the blatant expression of someone's viewpoints over the false pretense that 'we all believe the same things are against our viewpoints, so we make it illegal through democracy!'.

[philateliceun]

yeah? But that is a naive thought that everyone will get along when we are free. I don't think that we should eliminate everything that doesn't agree with the agreed view of the population. But I think with some things, like swastika's or hateful speech, it is safe to say that these things can only bring harm to society. We have seen it happen so why close our eyes for the so called sake of personal freedom when these things were there to get rid personal freedom?

[MaikUniversum]

lol why swastika ? Is it HARMFUL ??? HOW ??? LoL. Stupidy. That what is HARMFUL.

[Rose0883]

Oh I fully agree that it's harmful and brings no positive value to society whatsoever, but I think that the 'societal' free market will make it a net negative for people to wear swastikas or use hateful speech anyway. This still isn't to say that we need a law to enforce it, especially since store-owners would have the opportunity to choose what kinds of people they do or don't want in their stores.

[philateliceun]

Yes that is a good point. But I still don't think it would be absurd or detrimental to enforce this by law. It also makes it alot easier for women who don't want to wear one. And I don't like the goverment telling me what to do but in some cases, like rape, murder, racism, it is safe to say that this is not acceptable in any way. Just like Nazism or the oppression of woman isn't acceptable in any way. But hey, I am able to agree with you.

[philateliceun]

And you are allowed to do almost anything on your own ground. Just not public.

[Sparkygravity]

agreed

[AllahsApostle]

I can see what you mean by taking their liberty away by banning the Burka, but those women are losing their liberties and rights by being oppressed by their "superiors". It's better to enforce freddom then to tolerate it and lose it. Look at the bigger picture. Was it worth calling freedom? And I like your assesment of the term 'atheist'. Im an atheist but I think we might one day wake up with no God's and not have any opinions about a Burka.

[Beethovens7th]

The only thing I heard Pat say explicitly is that he things the burka should be banned from government buildings and such. I have no problem with this. Of course, I don't think that so-called "public" property should exist anywhere, and if it didn't then this kind of issue wouldn't even be brought up.

[junior00bacon00chee]

whether or not he actually advocates banning the burka, he definitely has made all kinds of statist comments in the past, saying things along the lines of banning religion. pat is a great vlogger, but he does worship the democracy god so im glad someone is calling him out on it. gotta keep the statheists on their toes, methinks.

[Finiras]

so you say the government shouldnt impose a dresscode. should they make it legal to walk around naked?

[XOmniverse]

Yes.

[Finiras]

so should democracy just completely go out of the window here

[XOmniverse]

Since consensus doesn't make right (any more than might does, and really democracy is just a collectivized version of "might makes right"), then yes, democracy should just completely go out the window along with statism in general.

[fede2]

"Democracy in and of itself is not necessarily good. Gang rape, after all, is democracy in action.

All men have the right to live their own life. Democracy must be rooted in a rational philosophy that first and foremost recognizes the right of an individual."

-Terry Goodkind

[crazypants88]

Why the heck would it be illegal in the first place?

[Finiras]

it just is, i guess because of prudisness

[xkeltoix]

i said a lot of what u said, and i got a pretty nasty backlash.

[KajiCarson]

Great video.

[dakshinamurti]

To put it simple - Pat Condell is a bigot. I thought about doing a videoreply to that, stating the obvious, but I'm glad I didn't. Your video is awesome at explaining my POV. 5 stars.

[Mattara]

Being critical of Islam is not bigotry -- it is completely rational.

[dakshinamurti]

Sure it is rational, when one is an atheist, like I am, which has nothing to do with the message conveyed in my comment, which was that arguing for a government sponsored/imposed negative dress code is bigotry.

[Mattara]

So opposing bigotry is itself bigotry? There is nothing wrong with the state supporting morally valid propositions.

[dakshinamurti]

Opposing bigotry with bigotry is bigotry yes, the same way as responding to violence with violence is still violent. Morality is not something for an entity such as the state to figure out and impose. It is a contingent effect of emergence and is intended to be the product of personal deliberation. You would also have assume moral realism to be true, and specifically whatever brand of it you prefer, and that is quite problematic for numerous reasons. I'll post a vid later today on close topics.

[Mattara]

I accept moral realism and have never claimed that morality comes from the state, only that we can use the tools of a state, or a DRO to enforce morality, such as banning the burka, just like we would ban other forms of oppression.

[dakshinamurti]

Problems are.

1 - Moral realism is false

2 - Even if it wasn't, it would just get one to deny combating oppression with oppression as a self-contradictory believe. If you oppress to combat oppression you are not making any progress. This should be obvious to someone with half a brain.

3 - Choosing without coercion to wear any form of clothing is a matter of negative liberty, and the basis of a free society.

4 - It is not up to you to decide what people wear.

[dakshinamurti]

And if you do make it your business to use force to determine how people are to dress, you are giving us who want to leave that decision to the individual many and strong reasons to use force against you, to preserve our autonomy. In the end, might will make the right.

[DixyHair]

If they're not imposing their will on anyone else, why is it okay for you to impose your will on them?

[BobChaos23]

Ok, lets try this one more time...people have the right to do what they want, UNLESS they opress others...by doing so, they demonstrate that they do not deserve the same freedoms they deny others. Most (not all, but most) women who wear the burka do so out of cultural obligation, and have been taught to do so from a very young age. To "choose" to take it off would be like us "choosing" to suddenly become nudists, along with the fact their entire family would likely shun them.

[DixyHair]

If nobody's using FORCE to make you comply with social mores, they're not imposing their will on you. People can chide & shun whoever they damn well please.

Also, it's illegal to walk around nude here, so your equivocation is quite faulty. If it was legal, but merely looked down upon socially, nobody would be imposing their will on you.

[DixyHair]

Moreover, if you're trying to expand the freedom of the woman, why the fuck would you tell women that they're not allowed to wear it & that they'll go to jail if they do?

[BobChaos23]

I never said that. Pat merely implied it, with title usage. Stop assuming you know my views, when you ignore every actual point I make. I never said the burka should be banned, but rather that you should examine the reasons why it exists in the first place. It is nothing sacred, it is cultural, and barely that, more an excuse to oppress the women they fear so much...its not like the west didnt do it, and quite recently, too...we just grew up.

[BobChaos23]

And why should it be illegal? And sorry, there are actually parts of the world where women are routinely beaten for showing too much skin (so to speak), but why would that bother you?

The fact that, yet again, you completely miss the point and pretend that coercive force cannot possibly exist. Only if someone threatens to beat you can they conrol your behavior? Go read a book or six on social engineering theory, and get back to me...

[DixyHair]

Actually, social engineering does ultimately involve the use of force.

And you're one to talk about assuming to know somebody else's views. I - & Xomni made this perfectly clear as well - abhor the burka personally. Also, I clearly stated that domestic abuse is a crime, so yeah, it bothers me.

And to claim to know what does & doesn't "bother me" is worse than assuming you wanted to ban it from your defense of Pat. That was also pretty low of you to say something so offensive w/out warrant.

[BobChaos23]

I am sorry I was "so offensive", but it is frustrating when someone seems to repeatedly ignore the main point I am making with a side issue, and I lose my sense of diplomacy. And you have on several posts stated the opinion (or am I wrong?) that wearing the burka is just some choice, like wearing a different Tshirt or somesuch...I feel that ignores the elephant in the room, that it is simply a way for men to oppress women, not some great cultural institution as some try to portray it.

[DixyHair]

False dichotomy. It is a tool of oppression, but it's also a choice. It's like a flag, it's a symbol of oppression & nationalism is a tool thereof, but one can still choose to fly one.

[BobChaos23]

Yup, everyone has free choices in everything. You win. Yawn...

[Chrisnoscrub047]

cool vid, XO. back to basics.

[Mattara]

XOmniverse, do you really think that the women who wear the burka is doing it out of personal liberty? If no, what is wrong with liberating women from the grasp of Islam by making it culturally unacceptable for it to be used? If you do not like state rules, what do you think about private companies having a dress code as a condition for employment?

[slagathor23]

Forcing the burka on a woman should always be illegal. If anyone is being abused because he or she refuses to wear an article of clothing, police should intervene. However, we can't just assume that they're all being forced into it. If a woman chooses to wear the burka, she should have every right to do so, because, ultimately, it is just an article of clothing.

[Mattara]

Why would a women choose to wear such a tool of oppression?

[DixyHair]

Some people are just stupid, & they have a right to be. Are you really purporting to read the mind of every woman?

[BobChaos23]

"read the mind of every woman"...so, let me get this straight...if I am in, say the 1860's, and I see a field of slaves working, maybe some have chains on, I should not "judge" because I dont understand? After all, I wouldnt want to impose and assume that the slaves want to be free, after all, they probably like it, right? If they are there, they probably chose to be, I guess...

[DixyHair]

Boy, talk about stupid equivocations. Can you not tell the difference between leading a slave who voluntarily follows you & having cops beat up women who assert their right to wear a burka?

[BobChaos23]

It was a metaphorical comparison to demonstrate a point. Thanks for missing that completely...

[DixyHair]

If a business does it, that's fine because it's their property. Business owners aren't even obligated to let people onto their property, it's like owning a house, so they have a right to restrict access for any reason they please. However, you have the right to be in public areas, the land of a consenting party, or your own property, so other people don't have the right to tell you with the threat of force what you can & can't wear in such a context.

[MiniAgupa]

I'd love to see Pat respond to this.

I think Pat's videos are usually very informative and entertaining, but he's almost jokingly wrong on this issue.

[chris3443]

The walk from Atheism to Anarchism has been a pretty related journey for me, I wonder where people are getting caught up? It's all just following the evidence.

[ManBearPiglet]

Didn't he say that he thought it should be banned in all the same places that normally a balaclava would be banned? Like banks and public transport?

It's not so much whether or not it's morally justifiable to ban the burka, but if it's morally justifiable for both businesses and the government to allow the burka in places where rubber masks and balaclavas are banned.

[juliecranford]

Balaclava? That word is in a Beatles song. What does it mean?

[ediblepet]

I think you made a couple bad arguments, including an appeal to popular viewpoint, but overall you are completely right. Once again I value a video you have made.

[BobChaos23]

You claim it is simply a choice of deciding what to wear....correc t me if I am wrong, but these women currently have a choice? Oh, sure, most of the women wearing it would SAY they choose to wear it, but I would relish the opportunity to know their views when their husbands arent next to them, never mind the fact they are raised to obey virtually anything they are told to do...

[XOmniverse]

I'm pretty sure women in most Western countries have a choice. Far as I know, the U.K. is not an Islamic theocratic state, and most women do not wear burkas.

Regardless, unproven assumptions regarding a woman's motivations for wearing a garment are not a justification for a blanket violation of human rights when it comes to wearing certain clothes.

[BobChaos23]

It's not like we are talking about hijab, the head scarf...I have several female friends who wear it, the Burka is quite a different thing, and those women I just mentioned abhor it as well...the women who wear the burka in western cultures suddenly have free choice simply due to geographival location? The mental yoke they bear is very heavy, and they are not going to give it up because the husband will not allow it; and they have no outside interaction to allow them enough (cont)

[BobChaos23]

(cont) of a perspective for them to make a real free choice...if a woman who isn't raised to wear the burka wants to wear one, fine, but in most cases it isn't a free choice as you understand it. Its funny that only women wear it; if muslim men were "required" to (despite no mention of it in the Quran), I have a feeling the whole discussion would change overnight.

And as far as "right to fashion" goes in your discussion, why not a right to go nude if one chooses?

[XOmniverse]

I agree. People should be allowed to be naked.

I think a lot of people are hoping that legalizing nudity will work as some sort of reductio ad absurdum argument, but objectively there's nothing wrong with being naked, so why shouldn't it be legal?

[BobChaos23]

I was not making a reductio ad absurdum arguement, I was making an honest point; yet if you were to ask any muslim who claims they have the right to wear the burka (or more often, tell a woman she has to wear it), if that would be ok with them, what do you think the response would be?

[juliecranford]

re: burka, nudity, women

I think they'd say something like, "I have the right to do the right thing, but you don't have the right to do the wrong thing."

[BobChaos23]

Ah, but then, who decides who is right and who is wrong? Why even live in a (relatively) free culture if you then resent it for being so?

[juliecranford]

I'm not supporting that response. I just think that's how they'd respond.

[MaikUniversum]

"who decides who is right and who is wrong"

REASON AND LOGIC decides.

[BobChaos23]

which is perfect, up until the point where two different parties, using two completely different types of "REASON AND LOGIC", come to different conclusions...

[MaikUniversum]

WOW, so now there are two different types of logic and reasoning ? Can you enlighten me, please ?

[MaikUniversum]

P.S. oh I forgot to mention third criteria - reality... But you would be a fool to deny reality, right ?

[DixyHair]

If a man is using the threat of violence to make his wife wear a burka, that's a whole other issue. Obviously, such an individual should be prosecuted as a criminal, but that doesn't mean that everyone should be prohibited from wearing it if they want to.

[BobChaos23]

So we just ask the abused wife if she is abused , with her husband standing next to her (because she isnt allowed to ever be alone without him), she says "no", end of story? Glad we fixed that whole problem...

[juliecranford]

re: abused wife

I suspect the overwhelming majority of cases are more complicated than that. I've heard burkas compared to bras. A muslim man said that americans have no right to speak against the burka because they force "their" women to cage up their boobs. And it's actually the same kind of thing, the only difference being in severity. Yet most american women don't think they're being forced to wear bras. They think they choose to do it.

[BobChaos23]

Yes, and then there was a movement for women to burn their bras, and many stopped wearing it, but the bra has an actual function...ask any large breasted woman if she would rather wear one, especially consideringh what not wearing on would do to her back. There is no possible function the burka has other than to oppress women. Its certainly not a simple "fashion choice" like some here seem to be implying...

[juliecranford]

Actually, bras cause back problems, and women who have gigantor boobs would be better of seeking other solutions.

[DixyHair]

So a woman who has a choice should be forced not to wear it?

...And how do you expect to stop her? Is it suddenly okay for a group of men to assault a woman just because they have police uniforms? If she resists, the cops will beat her, wrestle her down, use mace...they're using the threat of violence to get women to comply with such laws. Just like abusive husbands, only from another direction.

[BobChaos23]

I never advocated that, but rather the insistence by some here that it is simply a fashion choice. I never said anything like that, I am not Pat Condell. I just feel that many here, including yourself, are ignoring the fact that everyday husbands (and not just muslims either, just so its clear) use force, either literal or implied, to control the behavior of their mates.Just because no one has a gun to the womans head doesnt mean there isnt coercion. Does that mean she has to take the burka off?

[BobChaos23]

Of course not. But to ignore the abuse/control factor is blin dly and willfully ignorant of the basic issue, that of men, yet again, controlling women. That goes for the bra too, and guys telling their girlfriend they cant have male friends, and all the rest of this nonsense we really need to leave behind.

[DixyHair]

Well then, we have no disagreements. And I don't think anyone ever meant to imply that domestic violence in Islamic households isn't a problem.

[vonPeterhof]

To paraphrase a famous, albeit misattributed quote, "I disapprove of what you wear, but I will fight to the death for your right to wear it".

[peanarchist]

I completely agree. this is the same flawed logic that was used to create the war in Iraq. How can one impose freedom on another?

[jessesainthimmel]

With guns of course!  It worked in Iraq, right? :D

[RowanFortuneWood]

Thank you for this video; it is seriously morale boosting to hear some sanity on this topic.

[crazypants88]

Totally agree.

[SilentHobo]

way to strawman after falsing accusing him of strawmanning, you dumbshit.

[XOmniverse]

I watched his entire video. What exactly did I strawman? He advocated the government banning the burka, right?

[SilentHobo]

if you used your head instead of being a litigious subwhoring gadfly who intentionally misunderstands other peoples' arguments, you wouldn't have to ask such a dumb question.

[XOmniverse]

I think he did explicitly advocate the government placing a ban on wearing burkas, and you're just accusing me of a strawman because you have a hardon for Pat Condell.

Feel free to demonstrate to me my error and show me that he wasn't advocating a government ban on the burka.

[SilentHobo]

you're connoting a literal interpretation of the fucking TITLE and not the actual content. he says nothing about a government mandated banning. the fucking point of the video is to spread awareness so that this repressive horseshit isn't welcomed with open arms where it decides to encroach and impose itself. whether government decides to ban the burqa is entirely up to the peoples' voice. your argument is full of bullshit pretense, as if he's suggesting that government should just ban it out of

[SilentHobo]

CONT.

spontaneity. the only thing more irritating than your pretentious, redundant, and boring word choice are your HORRIBLE parallels, as if banning the fucking vader helmet (especially in regards to public buildings) is in any way the same as banning baseball caps, sweat pants, or certain foods. get the fuck out of here.

[XOmniverse]

By the way, do you have to be such a mudslinging little prick? I was completely polite to you in my first response, and you began insulting me for no clear reason. It's like you think being an asshole means you don't have to make good argumentative points or something.

[XOmniverse]

Whether its the same as a baseball cap is not the fundamental question. The fundamental question is whether the threat of violence should be used to regulate what sorts of clothes people are allowed to wear.

I'm going to just flat out say that you can't simultaneously claim to believe in human liberty and bans on certain types of clothes without being a complete hypocrite.

[XOmniverse]

So who is going to be doing the banning then, exactly? He didn't say to boycott the burka, which is what it would be called if private establishments did it on a case by case basis.

I watched the content and specifically listened for anything that might imply that he didn't mean a government ban. He should probably clarify this point in another video if that wasn't what he was advocating.

[SilentHobo]

"The... question is whether the threat of violence should be used to regulate..."

here we go again with the pretense. actually, it is imperative that you understand the difference between the burqa and a baseball cap. women are the ones enduring the coercion. there's a REASON that so many people want it gone. the forcing (and nine times out of ten, it is) of such a debasing garment on women is abuse. the goal wouldn't be to "ban it" per se, but to recognize the bearded pricks...

[SilentHobo]

CONT.

who pressure women into wearing the burqa as enemies of civil liberty and charge the fuckers who impose that shit on their wives with spousal abuse. y'know, what a civil society does.

sorry for any unneeded offense.

[XOmniverse]

If the goal isn't to ban it, then he shouldn't have said to ban it. Your case here is sound, but it's not the one Pat made in his video.

[SilentHobo]

I think it is, and is deliberately postured in such an offensive way to get the attention of both muslims and over-accommodating liberals who meekly pussyfoot around the issue in order to coexist with the neanderthals, hence the "who dresses their own kids in burqas" analogy. oh, to me it's just a clever title for a rant that sheds some much needed light on an important issue. think about it, the burqa was designed and imposed by men. by disabling their coercion, it is effectively banned.

[TheAmazingAtheist]

This video doesn't really address the nuances of Pat's position, but it still essentially sums up my problem with his views.

[Thassarian09]

sums it up pretty well O_o

[Improbable0possible]

I think we can see why the amazing aethiest attracts a much larger audience than this piece of crap Xominous you call a video

[XOmniverse]

American Idol has more viewers than either of us.

Assertion "popularity reflects quality" refuted.

[Improbable0possible]

of course but american idol is a completley different case. It's an entertainment show, both of you fine gentleman however work in a less widely shown genre. As far as people watch stuff of religous content, the amazing aethiest attracts more becaus ehe entertains, he teaches and puts across his message in a far superior to your fine selfs.

[UcanbeGOD]

Get Bent.

[Improbable0possible]

Glad we had your insightful and welcome contribution. Make a proper comment with a degree of intelligence. Instead of being a complete moron.

[truechristian127]

i'd correct my syntax and grammar problems before calling others morons.

[Improbable0possible]

sorry i just read christian in your name. i can't reply to the moronic.

[UcanbeGOD]

Likewise about the insightful contribution. TAA is little more than a YT clown. He used to have something to say but has since jumped the shark. I am not a moron because nothing about "get bent" was untrue or uncalled for. So suck a mighty earthshaking fart from my harry ass! :)

[Improbable0possible]

Firstly, bravo on the last sentence. Seriously. I do not know wgar you mean by a YT clown because my Scottish being has never heard the phrase. However i would disagree on the point he has nothing to say. He provides entertainment firstly, secondly he provides opinion that envokes thought and discussion. For example what were doing right now. See even if you don't like him, he gets minds working, he gets debate flowing. So i say t.j. keep it up.

Peace and love.

[UcanbeGOD]

I only told you to get bent and such because you were bashing Xomniverse and i think he is a smart guy and seems to be a nice guy as well and deserving of a larger audience. I just think that TJ is sort of becoming like the goofy Ytubers like SXEPHIL and some of the ones that lack substance. Granted not all the time but allot of the time. I just liked his videos more back in the day. BUT he did play a large role in introducing me to Libertarianism so I give him that. Peace and Love as well.

[juliecranford]

Since quality is subjective, you haven't refuted their implicit claim.

[i2aymond]

When I saw the video it made me mad as hell.

[juliecranford]

I understood his point to be that religious clothing shouldn't be exempt from laws.

[XOmniverse]

I took him at face value when he said "ban the burka." Nothing in his video indicated he meant anything else.

[AppleNick]

Same as me, because of the part in Condell's video starting at 1:39 where he added "where anybody else would be expected to show their faces".

[Mastikator]

hey

hey pat

move to pakistan

[juliecranford]

Why? Is Islam illegal there?

[Mastikator]

No, but other religions are. And most importantly, the state mandates dress codes there for women too.

Wouldn't he just love it?

[juliecranford]

No, I don't think he would.

[juliecranford]

Most of the united states has a dress code for women, too.

[Mastikator]

I was being sarcastic.

[EyesLikeHoles]

Yeah that guy is a tool.

[overmind25]

Poor Pat Condell. That video shocked me lol.