I don't know of any places in the Torah where it put quite in those terms, but there are warnings concerning hardening one's heart, such as in Psalm 95:8. That would pretty much amount to the same thing i.e. witnessing the power of God but refusing to submit to God's truth regardless.
plus free will makes no sense due to the fact that if god knows I would not believe in him before he made me then the point of me being here makes no sence in the first place because if he already knows everything that I'am going to do before I even do it then why did he not just send me straight to hell in the first place or heaven depending on what I believe or have done in my life? logic is not on your side my friend I would have to say!
forgive me, but for me, as an outsider, it sounds like you make shit up as you go along.
a) you get all sorts of answers from xians to that questions (tho most dont know about it an/or dont care). so it cannot be clear at all.
b) your bible quotes dont seem to be related. you just twist the interpretation to fit.
c) if someone does magic stunts, i cant know if they are just tricks, the work of satan or the holy spirit or a psychic or a product of advanced technology.
d) satan could very well pretend to cast out himself. isnt he the best liar of all?
e) and first of all: jesus said "whoever". THAT seems to be clear, no?
btw. you tend to say "in xianity it is like this and that". you should instead say "in my specific version of xianity ..." as you hardly represent all the often completely incomatible versions.
well thats good to know and real useful in case I am worried about zombie jews persecuting me for eternity due to my rejection of the "heavenly gitts" other than this 10% tithe bill I am not sure what gift I have been given. Oh yeah that is right, die first, then get gift. HALLELUJAH!
It must be nice to be such a simple minded fool and go through life with a belief in a Sunday School level of mumbo jumbo and never have to ever have a independent thought
"I don't censor anyone, unless they break my three rules." Well said! So you do censor... thank you for admitting that you censor... or do you deny it further?
I see you read the "non theist" on my channel... but you clearly either did not finish reading or you simply cannot comprehend the text. Either way... your question is answered on my channel.
I don't censor unless someone breaks my rules. I always censored people who gave out people's personal information and the other two rules I introduced after I started addressing racism. Threats of violence and hate speech are not welcome on my channel. Do you find something unreasonable about that?
I did read it. It says you don't subscribe to any religion. That doesn't tell me what your view is on the question of God existence.
@messiahjonz It is his channel. He can censor if he wants. It is like refusing service to people...that is allowed. You have a channel where you can spout your own views. Most of us believe in free speech. I believe David Douche has the right to stand up and spout his hatred for Jews all day along. I would not give him the platform to do it in front of my house and by the same token, would not give him the opportunity to do it on my channel. Commening on somone's page is a privilege, not a right
Oh yes. Writing "God is a myth" on bank notes under "God we trust". Very mature. That would also mean you're an atheist and you're just playing around with words to try to look clever.
Now, I am a little concerned that you accused me of false DMCAing people. I really would like to know what you were basing that on. I have actually spoken against that kind of thing numberous, and even took a lot of heat for defending the free speech of an unpopular racist poster on here.
@ukchristian28 I notice that you cannot bring yourself to answer my simple question... do you admit that you censor posts on youtube? Being dishonest is a defining characteristic of most xians... thank you for not disappointing me. Perhaps you should bother to look up the words that you fail to understand... such as "myth". As for the DMCA's... search it... I do not have to and it popped up. If you refuse to answer my question further, do not respond, this is boring.
I do exactly what it says on my profile. If you don't the three rules I have posted on there, you won't get censored. I have censored and blocked people who have violated them. In every case the person was a racist posting hate and nothing more.
You are in the habit of accusing people of things without backing up your accusations? The only video I found was by me on my coffeeblackandstrong account. I made it to announce that I had been falsely DMCAed by Marmiteman4 fans.
@ukchristian28 You fail to cover the loss of faith from personal catastrophic incidents, which also the bible convieniently fails to adress. The dogma posits that such people are tested only with in their limits but what if those limits are exceeded as they often are resulting in apostate people? The dichotomy of the situation indicates a serious flaw in this 'Great Plan' one of which only indicates that people are deliberately screwed over as if there's some how not enough room in Heaven.
How is any of that relevant to the subject of this video? I don't see the connection, unless you are asking whether it is possible for someone to cease to love God and reject Christ due to a really bad experience, while still knowing that Christianity is true. Is that what you are getting at?
@ukchristian28 One's relevancy was in relation to verasity of christianity, to you it's truth, perhaps simple or complicated. To those whom bad experiences have taken their toll, such verasity is nolonger present hence nolonger a Faith in christianity being true. Your video posits becomming apostate results in damnation to Hell Fire for which there is only the dogma to support, despite the evangelical proselytizing on The God Channel of Guided Tours of hell and meeting with Reptilianoid people
@ukchristian28 Perhaps I should attempt clarrification, but being a somewhat complicated Being this may end eroneously. My posit was that to those whom are tested to faiths obliteration had experienced The One revealing christianity is like all others, just a hotel on the road to Return, and that eventually you check out of that hotel, get on that transport and start reconnecting with The One. The Bible 'God' is only a test, a test of maturity as a being an idea to be transcended then.
@ukchristian28 I'm not Trolling or intending to cause offence, even though this is percieved verily often, your comfortable and balanced being a christian I applaud you I've assisted people to take solace with christianity and I've also assisted people in stepping away from it to some condemnation but each person has become the better for it in what ever capacity they have chosen I just do my job as tasked by The One. I've always felt Hell was a bad Idea but some people need motivation to evolve
@messiahjonz How do you know who files false DMCA's? The question that you asked was sort of akin to "Do you beat your wife did you stop doing that?" Either way he loses. You are some piece of work. Oh let me guess. You are super smart and therefore you think anyone who does not think like you is not intelligent and pretty much are smitten with what you see as your own intellectual superiority?
I see you are from Southern California. That about says it all. WOW
He searched my username in the Youtube search engine and my video over on my Coffeeblackandstrong channel titled "Ukchristian28: Suspended Due to false DMCA Claims" apparently came up. What appears to have happened is that he took the title to mean that I was suspended for filing false DMCAs and didn't actually bother watching the video. Had he done so he would have found that it was made my me and that I was the one who had been DMCAed.
What was bigoted about what he said? You falsely accused me of filing false DMCAs because you didn't bother watching the video to see who made it and how I came to be suspended. You took issue with me for censoring racist trolls when I am perfectly within my rights to do so as well as reasonable for me to do so. You also seem to have an inflated view of your own intelligence and like to play word games. His comments are justified.
@messiahjonz That is BS? Ummm how? I am blind. I have HFA. I attend a state residential school. Apparently you can read but don't understand...is that what I am sensing here? You leaving an idiotic comment about which you know nothing is also ok...again, I would expect nothing else from someone who has a channel such as yours that is pretty narcissitc. So me calling you out on accusing him of filing false DMCA's and indicating your obvious love of self pissed you off? ROFL. Talk about BS LOL
@DarkQuietWyattON BS = bullshit kid... "I feel pity for the trolls who leave hateful comments." That kid... is BS! Your comment concerning Southern California is bigoted. So now I have an angry bigot (notice I have not mentioned your disabilities... for which I pity you), and an angry lying hypocrite making posts to me... Guys, get a life... I am worth less than nothing... my opinions even less... but wait! Apparently in your worlds they do... they seem to mean a great deal. Peace to you
@messiahjonz My comment about Southern California is not bigoted. It is my own experience. I found many people there to be very into themselves more than most other places I have lived. I live in Illinois right now and its just as bad....perhaps worse, I lived in Southern California a few years ago (although I loved Sharkey's tacos). You are not worth less than nothing. Who is a lying hypocrite? Ok, I might be a hypocrite but I am not a liar.
@messiahjonz (Cont) but no one has any to give Sorry...bad joke. Dude, I am not a bigot I am just....umm..outspoken. Ok, actually, there is one group of people I am bigoted against so I guess in that regard I am a bigot but seriuosly, not against you. I was just wondering how you knew it was UK that DMCA's people?
Oh and my comment about the trolls was aimed primarily at the anti-Semites who leave me messages saying I should burn in an oven and things like that. I do feel pity for them.
@messiahjonz Next time I will put something like: Gulf War vet, saw 6 years of combat, am 6 foot 5, lost 3 fingers on my right hand when I saved my entire unit from a grenade. There is no G-d. There is only me. No one can be above me. I am married to the sexiest woman on planet and we make love 3 times a day. I have the biggest schlong in the country and I am the president of MENSA and NASA comes to me for advise as does the President of the United States....
@messiahjonz (Cont): Now that would be BS. Instead I put down that I am blind and have high functioning autism. I am barely 5'3 and look like I am about 12. I put down the truth and you seem to think its BS. Actually now that I think about it........I am guessing you seem to have trouble recognzing the truth when you see it because you think you know more about everything than anyone else. Ok...I will stop laughing now.
Southern California huh? I used to live there. G-d I hated it
God formed jesus in the womb?You know how utterly stupid that sounds?And what is your evidence for your virgin birth?Your scriptures?.Please. You are in such denial about the sheer absurdity of your beliefs that all your reasoning and logic are ignored so you can live your life in this make belief world of yours.
Total nonsense... Making this a sin only xians can commit is a catch 22. If you know the "truth" and refuse it. More interpretational nonsense from xians to justify more nonsense.
A sin only Christians can commit? You mean to say "only a sin an unbeliever can commit", right? How is it a catch 22 and what's wrong with the exegesis I offered in the video?
@ukchristian28 If one knows the "truth" them they are a believer... it matters not what they claim. By this as you stated, this makes even Satan a xian... for he knows the "truth". Therefore only a believer can commit this sin, but if one is a believer they cannot commit this sin... catch 22. It is only those that reject this nonsense for what it is... supernatural babble, flotsam, waste... that can commit this "sin".
When we say "being a believer" we mean more than mere intellectual assent. To be a believer is to repent of your sins and place your trust in Christ to save you. That is not true of Satan and it is not true of those who commit the unpardonable sin.
@ukchristian28 "We" mean? Speak only for yourself... unless you can provide evidence of authority to speak for others. By that definition there are no xians. Thank you.
That's mainstream evangelical Christian doctrine. It's what the Protestant Reformation was all about It is also what every evangelical Christian church or group today holds to as well. So, I think I can pretty say "we" since my fellow believers agree with me.
"By that definition there are no xians. Thank you."
@ukchristian28 Do not believe everything you "think"... speak for yourself... unless you require the safety of numbers on your side. Um... the definition of a believer that you gave... please try to follow along.
Oh don't be so downright arrogant and condescending. You're not exactly an intellectual giant and you are as much a part of a group as any religious believer. All you fundy atheists say the same stupid, ignorant things so talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
What was wrong with the definition I gave? Are you claiming that people never repent and trust in Christ to save them?
@ukchristian28 I am not sure what my intellect has to do with this...you must feel threatened to make such a comment... why not stick to the topic. I do not affilliate myself with a group concerning religion, and no, I am not an atheist... speak of arrogance, ignorance, and low intellect! Typical xian bashing a person that questions. Your definition sucks... you typed it, yet you cannot see the errors of your assumptions. Best you be more concerned with yourself instead of trying to bash others
My backing is circumstantial evidence..What is more believable.A secret affair which could explain a pregnancy or Spiritual Spermicide from a nonphysical entity?
So, I take it you actually have no evidence for that assertion just an antisupernaturalist bias. "Spiritual spermicide" is not accurate either. God formed Jesus in the womb of Mary as he formed the universe. There is no sexual connotation there.
Wow, you just repeated the very view this video was made to deny! Are you usually in the habit of making stupid comments on Christian videos without even listening to what is said?
@ukchristian28 So eternal torture for finite crimes? Hardly seems moral does it?
Ok, so are you saying no matter how serious, or how minor your 'crimes' are, you'll be suffering in hell for eternity if you don't accept Jesus as your savior?
The language of Hell fire is symbolic. It represents eternal shame and separation from God. Ancient Israel was an honour/shame culture.
But you are not perfect. You can't claim to have loved God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and to have loved your neighbour as yourself perfectly at all times. Only that would be enough to be accepted by a Holy God.
Without trusting in Christ, you would face God's judgement.
No one can possibly hope to come up to God's standards on their own merits. In God's sight our good works as as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). They can't possibly make up for our sinfulness. That's why salvation can only be due to God's mercy and grace (undeserved favour). It cannot be earned or deserved, but is a free gift to be accepted through faith alone.
No, but I read an article on him by J.P Holding which made him look quite clueless. What did he have to say?
@ukchristian28 If God is so merciful, why can he not simply forgive me without this requirement of faith? I mean, he's the one that made me this way right? He's the one that made me unable to accept things on faith.
Robert G. Ingersol is one of the great minds of the 19th Century, also known as "The Great Agnostic."
In his writings of "Some Mistakes of Moses" he recants a few stories in the bible, and depicts the absurdity of their nature, then cautions the readers against laughing
@ukchristian28 For instance, the story of Adam and Eve he calls "The Rib Story."
He gies a scenario of a man going to God to be judged, and God says, "Have you been good?" The man says yes, he's given to charity, he has a loving family, a loving home, and left them with enough money to cover his funeral. He did not, however, belong to a church, as their interest in the suffering of those who didn't believe the same thing turned him off. And he found "The Rib Story" to be 'a bit much'.
@ukchristian28 So God then responds to the man by saying, "Burn him."
The second mand comes up, God asks if he was good, the man admits he stole from his own bank 20,000 dollars, and had sex with his neighbor's wife, while having a wife of his own. He does, however, belong to a church, and when asked if he believed "The Rib Story" the man said, "Oh yes! I only wish there weren't more unbelievable stories I could have faith in!" and God smiles and says, "Give that man a harp."
@ukchristian28 You are wrong. Salvation can only be due to God's mercy and grace and him having himself sacrificed to himself. I never got that part. If god is merciful and forgiving and loves me, and if he is omnipotent and makes all the rules, he can just choose to forgive me. Why have himself / his son tortured and killed? That makes no sense. It's like if Osama decided not to kill Americans anymore and just as an outlet for his bottled up rage therefore killed his children instead.
@ukchristian28 Can you give us clueless heathen some pointers as to how to tell which parts of the Bible are symbolic and which are literal? Is Genesis and the creation story literal or symbolic? Is his condemnation of homosexuality literal or symbolic? Is the resurrection literal or symbolic?
@ukchristian28 Since I do not put any trust in the Bible whatsoever, I don't take anything in the Bible at face value. A fundamentalist, otoh, takes everything in the Bible at face value. You appear to be somewhat in between, and therefore YOU have to do the explaining on what basis you make the distinction. If the resurrection is real but Noah's flood symbolic, please tell me why you think so.
Again, how would you decide whether anything is symbolic or literal? Answer that question and you will likely have your answer the one you asked. Whether or not you believe the Bible is the word of God is irrelevant to the question.
No one takes everything in the Bible literally, no matter how fundamentalist they are. Even a Chick fundy would know that the blast of God's nostrils in Exodus 15:8 is not literal, since God is not a physical being.
@ukchristian28 There is a difference between what I think is true or false, and what the writers of the Bible intended to be metaphors or literal accounts. I know that the creation account in Genesis most certainly did not happen that way. Science tells me that this is wrong. But I cannot know if the writers of the Bible MEANT it to be a literal or symbolic account. Funny enough, the criterion seems to be that everything that seems "too silly" is declared a metaphor. To me, it is all silly.
Err, what indication have I given that I am worried about being sent to Hell? The point of this video is to demonstrate that the unpardonable sin cannot be committed by believers. It seems you have a severe comprehension impairment.
@ukchristian28 This comment was not directed toward you. Rather, I was alluding to the person described in the video, who was stricken with this fear. Please note the absence of the "@ukchristian28" in my previous comment.
That's a fascinating concept, even though it contradicts morality and relieves christians of the responsibility of treating their fellow humans decently. You sir, are immoral and a threat to my species, we shall never be on kind terms for you have already picked a side that I cannot, nor can any civilized human being, accommodate.
Ok, you haven't answered any of my points in the video. People like you who make assertions without backing are a threat to the future of the species. If people like you become predominate, all of the people in the future will be irrational idiots.
@ukchristian28 I did reply to the concept of sin :) I thought you religious people were supposed to be more tolerant, even though I've never met one :) If a person like me, who does not believe in a god because there is no evidence supporting it, becomes the future of our species, the future will be irrational idiots? That's a fascinating contradiction. Irrational is, f.x. someone who believes in something without any evidence for it and especially if there is evidence against it ;)
I don't see any reason why I should be tolerant of stupid comments. Jesus wasn't and neither were the apostles. That I am allowing you to post such comments is tolerant enough I think.
No, they will be irrational idiots because they will think (like you) that making assertions without backing is an argument. How about you explain how anything I said in this video "contradicts morality and relieves Christians of the responsibility of treating their fellow humans decently?"
@ukchristian28 Having someone else take on your responsibility of your actions (Mr. Jesus) is immoral ;) With that proposition, Mr. Jesus taking on your responsibilities, you are free to commit any disgusting act against your fellow man, especially if he does not agree with your fascist religious ideology ;) I know Mr. Jesus wasn't tolerant, besides all the fascinating hippie statements he did claim not to come to bring peace but the sword. He was kind of a prick like his old man.
"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" (Romans 6:1-2).
True conversion brings repentance. It means regretting your sin, turning from it and crying out to God for forgiveness. That hardly involves ignoring personal responsibility. As Paul makes clear above, God then calls us to live a holy life. So you made a false charge.
@ukchristian28 Who the fuck is Paul? Perhaps if you had a reference from Jesus/God than I'd be interested but the hot-dog salesman on the corner? No. True conversion which than produces a real christian right? It is odd how all the 30.000 + denominations of christianity conclude themselves as being the true christian ;) Fascinating stuff.. True conversion, from a rational persons perspective, is rejection of reason, socially defined morality, respect for one's fellow man.
You really are providing me with lots of comments to nominate for screwball awards. The Apostle Paul was dramatically converted on the road to Damascus by a revelation of the risen Jesus which knocked him to the ground. He also knew some of the original apostles who knew Jesus personally. Peter for example. Oh and your comment about 30, 000 denominations is pretty stupid. It doesn't involve 30, 000 totally different points of view.
@ukchristian28 I've already been nominated for the screwball awards, let's keep our fingers crossed. The Apostle Paul.. and than you wrote something unverified and unproven which I cannot accept as a fact, but kudos for writing though ;) Peter, yes.. again, unverified and unproven.. but thanks. 30.000 + denominations who do not agree completely on the interpretation of the bible.. that probably tells us nothing :) Christians do not agree on what the bible says. Case closed.
Actually no. Luke wrote about it in the book of Acts as well. The fact in the four gospels, Acts and Paul and Peter's epistles we multiple attestation to the ministry of Jesus and His resurrection. If you are going to dismiss all that, then you need to be consistent and dismiss written accounts of all historical events from the ancient world.
@ukchristian28 You think, Paul walking down a dirt road and falling down because of the "word of Jesus" is considered historically verified or even plausible? Because I don't think that's even valid as a hypothesis I should dismiss all other written historical events that do not sound ludacris? Surely if there was a script with a character known as Bubba the jiggly blubber weasel, who time traveled and interacted with all man kind than surely I would be somewhat sceptical ;)
The old classic presupposition against miracles rears its head again. Would you care to tell why you simply assume that the supernatural is impossible?
@ukchristian28 I never said it was impossible, I just said I'm not going to sit around listening to a crazy person talking about miracles without presenting some sort of evidence for it ;) I guess it kind of comes down to the burden of proof thing.. extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'll be waiting patiently while you conjure up the required data. I'm so exited right now, I think I just peed a little bit.
As for you 30, 000 + denomination comment, what kind of reasoning is that? Are you really saying that unless people agree on every point of a particular issue no one can come to any informed conclusions about it? Would you apply that to the scientific debate over whether global warming is real? Besides, that 30,000 denomination number is misleading as this video shows:
@ukchristian28 I was pointing out the pathetic reasoning of christians and the fact that they don't agree. Why is it that the "perfect" book of good needs to be interpreted by the .. how to water this down .. the reality challenged? I'm sorry.. I'm a bit confused here.. are you comparing actual science to the gibberish you consider a valid possibility of reality? That's pretty messed up, I might even say that's going a bit too far. I'm really offended by your accusation :)
Socially defined morality? Hmmm, well that worked really well in Nazi Germany I must say:). I guess you would have to endorse Calvin's Geneva as well, if morals are devived socially. Oh and really, if embracing reason means not bothering to research things before spouting off, making stupid baseless assertions and appealing to emotion, I think I'll stick to the shackles of faith thank you very much:).
@ukchristian28 OH YES!!! I was referring to the 1930' and 1940' Catholic state of Germany with influences from the anti-semitic Lutheran version.. totally :) Oh, dear Calvin, being all kind but had to flee because of the religious.. yet being religious.. that's ironic :) Good religious against bad religious, interpretation VS interpretation.
I like your method of self criticism, it's just shows how much better you are than me. You honor our species with your selfless ability. Thank you :)
Lol, you clearly haven't understood my point. You said that morality is socially based. To be consistent with that reasoning you would have to endorse all kinds of things that you would consider detrimental to the well being of man. You can't condemn Lutheran anti-semitism, the transatlantic slave trade or Hitler's Holocaust. In fact, according to that reasoning someone like Martin Luther King would be immoral since he went against what was considered moral socially.
@ukchristian28 Surely, within that time period, anti-semitism was considered, by some, valid and moral. Now, decades later, as society has evolved it is considered immoral. Society changes and evolves, it evolves.. I'll repeat, it evolves :). In many societies, usually based on the notion that morality is finite and written in ancient, holy texts, one does not see society evolve or attempt to better itself through experience, unless the fundamentalist aspect starts to dwindle.
It evolves does it. So, if evangelical Christianity begins to rise again and becomes predominate then Christian moral values will be right then? You have groups today that promote paedophilia as something natural and right. I guess if in 40 years time they have managed to convince enough people that there is nothing wrong with an adult sleeping with a 10 year old then that will be right will it? Societies evolve in different ways. Why not embrace Iran's way of doing things?
@ukchristian28 Was your first sentence a claim or a question? Christian morality will always be crap because it's finite and cannot learn from it's mistake. If a democratic society legalizes sexual abuse of children than obviously they assume it's moral. I do not see this happening in a secular society, perhaps in a theocracy, but no in a secular society. Why not adhere to sharia law? Because it's a religious attempt of morality which will never work because it's finite and stupid.. come on!
And what do you suppose Jesus meant when he said he hadn't come to bring peace but a sword? Please do explain it to me and show your superior intellect and knowledge.
Finally, appealing to outrage is not an argument. If you want to say God is prick, then demonstrate how he is.
@ukchristian28 Well, being a violent prick, the son of an insane, disgusting prick, I assume that he meant that he wanted all the insane sheep followers to go and kill their fellow man, those who had not been brainwashed to adhere to this nonsense, you call christianity. Am I close?
I must appeal to outrage, before I explain, and express my disgust in you for not grasping the old testament depiction of your insane, god. Demonstration: See Old testament ;)
In other words you haven't bothered to actually look the verse up and read it in context. Instead you thought you would read whatever you liked into it in order to further your outrage appeals. The passage in question is Matt 10:34-36. Jesus is talking about the divisions and conflicts that will arise within one's family due to the gospel message. The sword is a metaphor for such division. How about you do some research in future before spouting off?
@ukchristian28 Oh, the sword is a metaphor? Odd, I was concluding that the violent character of Jesus was just continuing his violent behavior and demanding war against those he could not brainwash ;) I guess, instead, it's just rampant paranoia that concludes that all families are enemies of one another.. apparently some conclude that this is a reference to old testament from some Micah. In those days, children did not have human rights as they do today. Good we cleared that up.
No, it's talking about the fact that the gospel message will inevitably bring division within families because the family members will not like nor accept the message. The passage indicates that it will be the unbelieving family members who cause the trouble and persecution, not the Christians. Why don't you open an commentary on Matthew's gospel and learn something before spouting off? Your ignorance is embarrassing!
They didn't have human rights? What are you basing that on?
@ukchristian28 It's talking about the "fact"? :) That's brilliant.. If there is anything history has taught us it's that christians are always persecuted and never the other way around. I feel so ashamed being the persecutor, except, I do live in a country with a "national religion", also known as "state religion".. Good times. Why do I not read more of the bible? Well, I have more important information to seek and gain. I wish I could interpret all my information like you do :)
That's all pretty irrlevant since the discussion was over what Jesus meant by not bringing peace but a sword. The passage in question is about division in the believer's families caused by family members rejecting the message.
If don't want to study the Bible why do you bother opening your mouth about it? Spouting off about things you know nothing about only leads your embarrassing yourself, as you have on this video.
@ukchristian28 I don't feel embarrassed :) I feel pretty good.
Who would instigate the division? In the cases I've observed, personally, it's the religious who instigate all divisions regardless of the situation in question. Sure, there will be division, in some occasions, but let's not forget who's the divider ;) What exactly is the message again?
@ukchristian28 I would but researching just takes too much time :) I prefer to do the good old christian thing and interpret the bible just the way I want to, just the way it benefits my point of view ;) The bible sure has good message in it. People will rebel, parents need to stone their children to death for rebelling, perhaps they might even have their children molested sexually as a punishment or just because there's a visitor that needs some poon. Either way, good stuff ;)
You mean you're too downright lazy to gain any knowledge or understanding.
The Bible never says anything about children being molested as punishment. That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The passage about stoning kids is a reference to older young people who were doing things that threatened everyone elses survival, but I wouldn't expect a dimwit like you to know that.
Wow, ignorant and proud of it. What a bright future we have if people like you take over!
@ukchristian28 Do personal insults serve a purpose in your form of debating? I'm just curious :)
You're swell, I enjoy your company vigorously.
There is no mention of threatening every-one's survival ;) You know this, it was a fine attempt to sway what it says or, interpret as you people often do but noooo.. glutton and a drunkard.. that's not the same. You know you could write more information if you skip the insults :)
@ukchristian28 You might want to look up burden of proof and why your biblical claims are invalid ;) I've checked out what you asked and yes, I accept that the appeal to outrage is invalid yet I cannot see the exact implication of what I've written, perhaps you might shed a light on the connection, that would be nice, thanks.
@ukchristian28 Also I didn't want to watch your whole video because it's fuck-boring, at least the couple of seconds I watched. I tried, I really did, but it's just so boring and useless.
I see. So if people like you become predominate as you hope, everyone is going to have the attention span of a gnat. Wow, what a vision! I made this for a 13 year old with ADHD and he managed to sit through it. That makes you look so utterly pathetic it beggers belief!
@ukchristian28 I seriously advice you to release the 13 year old from your basement Mr. Fritzl :) Was the young person with ADHD on medication at the time you attempted to bore him/her to death with your fascinating religious rants? I guess brainwashing children is more suitable task for your given your impatience and inability to convince those who have actual knowledge of the world ;) I guess we'll just have to wait and see if your gnat prophecy comes to be real, again fingers crossed ;)
That 13 year old kid is already more rational, knowledgable and mature than you will ever be. Unlike you he doesn't think that stupidity and ignorance of other people's beliefs are things to be proud of.
@ukchristian28 That's nice, kudos on the 13 year old kid. Let's hope he doesn't kill anyone with all the religious brain-washing/grooming you've done.
So, once one leaves Christianity, one can never go back? Interesting. That seems rather heavy handed. Don't people get to make mistakes? In fact, of all of the sins one could never be forgiven of, this one seems most ludicrous to me. Kill someone? No problem. Repent, and all is well. Find "truth" elsewhere for a time and then realize the error later? Doomed forever.
Yeah, how about we go back and review the first few minutes of the video and see how that logic jives.
Oh honestly, did you even listen to the video? It is not unpardonable because it is greater than murder or anything else, and thereby too great for Jesus' blood to cover. The sin involves having a mindset that rejects the truth even though you have been convinced of it. Someone with a mindset like that is never going to be forgiven because they will always refuse to repent and believe. That's why it's unpardonable. Please do try to listen in future.
@ukchristian28 I did try to listen and respond honestly, but moving on...
So, the mindset of non-justified unbelief is the unforgivable sin then? Once you have this mindset, you cannot realize your error later?
Oh, that's right. This mindset is simply applicable to those who do not repent later anyways. Then why mention it at all? After all, one can only be forgiven if one repents, and that would dismiss the charge of an unforgivable sin by rote. So, in effect, one's choice forgives oneself?
It is certainly true that everyone who persists in unbelief until death will never be forgiven, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were convinced of the truth to the point of knowingly denying and rejecting it. What Jesus said serves as a warning not to be so stubborn and determined to reject the Christian faith that you will ignore the evidence even if it is clear and obvious.
Also, I never said that someone will necessarily have such a mindset permanently.
As I said before, I don't necessarily think that a person will have such a mindset permanently. The sin is unforgivable in the sense that it prevents the person receiving forgiveness. If they do come out of that repent then they will be saved.
@ukchristian28 "If they do come out of that repent then they will be saved."
Then, I submit, having that mindset is a forgivable thing, the same as I might forgive someone who broke something of mine, provided that individual ceased that behavior in the future.
You still don't understand the concept it seems. It is called the unpardonable sin because as long as someone has that mindset they are prevented from coming to salvation and finding forgiveness.
@ukchristian28 Well, I can call breaking my things unpardonable, and then when someone asks for forgiveness pardon the individual. However, doing so just makes me look silly, doesn't it?
The thing is, if it is unpardonable, then it is unpardonable. If one can gain pardon for the unpardonable, then by definition, it is pardonable in the first case.
@ukchristian28 Also, I want to know what one would consider as "clear and obvious" evidence in this context. Plenty of people have actively looked for and saw nothing of the sort. Some people lost their faith as a result of not seeing "clear and obvious" evidence.
I already gave an example in the video. The Pharisees had witnessed the strongest, clearest evidence in the ministry of Jesus i.e His many miracles and occasions where He drove out demons. They rejected Him regardless. It is difficult to say really as it would probably depend on a lot of things such as the person's ability to comprehend, emotional issues etc. But if they are convinced and reject it anyway, they would be committing the sin.
@ukchristian28 Yes, I remember the example. However, as Jesus is not around right now, nor do I see miracles of the magnitude presented in the Bible occurring in a blatant way, I am a bit skeptical to see how such an example might apply to anyone watching your video.
I got question for you. If you know a man is false and not of God by the way he teaches things that are not scriptural yet he's supposively doing miracles. Is it blasphemy not to believe in him? Scripture says the devil uses signs and wonders.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and FALSE PROPHETS, and shall shew GREAT SIGNS AND WONDERS; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of DEVILS, working MIRACLES....
Obviously not, and that's not the kind of mindset I was describing anyway. The mindset whereby someone commits blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is where they are convinced of the truth but decide to reject it anyway.
@ukchristian28 I was just asking, cause I have seen people that preach contrary to the word of God. Yet they are doing these miracles. But I have my doubts about them, I can't hear the Lord in thier speech , because of what they preach. So I don't want to be blaspheming God wondering how these folks are casting out devils, when they are teaching devil doctrines. When even Jesus said how can satan cast out Satan. How are these devils and false prophets doing miracles. I've wondered about this.
Wow,you explained this REALLY well ! There was a time when I was VERY concerned about committing this sin myself .However ,that was some time ago and is no longer a concern :<)
I John 5:16 is about blasphemy; it is a sin which brings about spiritual death to others, such as the many Jewish leaders which rejected the Christ and still do til this day. When others that follow them are condemned by their rejection, this is a form of leadership responsibility that carries the death penalty “blasphemy of the spirit”! Same for us should we individually cause someone to separate from the Lord or as a teacher by teaching a doctrine that causes the followers to fall away.
Yes, the reference to the sin which leads to death is probably a reference to a false teaching within the church which places people outside of the true faith. I don't think that has anything to do with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
@ukchristian28 how can someone teach others into condemnation and then repent and find mercy seeing that many of those that are condemned of his teachings will be his judge in that day? Anything you do to cause someone to depart from the faith has very much to do with blasphemy of the spirit, because blasphemy of the spirit means to break or cause to break or depart. Jesus said the Pharisees children would judge them for putting them up to their lies, certainly this is blasphemy.
But if some of Pharisees who did that later repented they would be saved. John 3:16 says "whoever believes" will be saved, Romans 10:12 says that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Jesus in John 6:40 says" everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." There is not a single sin that Jesus did not die for and therefore not a single sin that won't be forgiven a repentant sinner.
@ukchristian28 Jesus if you offend one of these little ones "meaning his people" if you cause them to depart from the Lord, it would be easier to return from the depth of the sea after being cast in with a boulder tied about your neck. And it was Jesus that told the Pharisees that they would be judge by those they put up to their lies and trickery. The application of this is is to the kingdom of God the church , that after one becomes a Christian causing others to leave the Lord is blasphemy.
Heb.6:4 is mistaken to be talking about blasphemy of the spirit, no. The Hebrew Christians were immature, believing that they could backslide into willful sin and do despite to the spirit of grace and simply be re-baptized and be brought back to a clean slate with God “repentance”. They believed they could be renewed unto repentance and be as clean as they were when they first believed, but they were reprimanded told that if they stomp on the same blood that sanctified them they are condemned.
The writer doesn't seem to be talking about all of the Hebrew Christians in those verses. He is talking about a group who have fallen away and then he contrasts them with the Christians he is addressing. "But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you..." (verse 9). The fact that the group described in verses 4-6 were once enlightened etc suggests to me that they knew the truth but rejecting it anyway, which it was impossible to bring them to repentence.
@ukchristian28 I agreed it was impossible to bring them to repentance, that means it is impossible to return to the state of being whole, clean without sin as you were when you were first baptized in repentance unto God as in the beginning. Remember Gal.6:1 speaks of the brother that is overtaken in a sin, that he should be converted, let's face it, God's people can and do often backslide, but as long as they live they can return and be restore with God, its not impossible in such cases.
Yes, which means the people in Hebrews 6:4-6 never truly came to saving faith in the first place. They were rejecting the truth despite being convinced. True believers as you say may backslide (I have in the past unfortunately) but if they are truly born again, God will bring them back to Himself.
@ukchristian28 no no no Heb.10:26-30 make it overwhelmingly clear these were they that had been sanctified by the blood of the Lord and stomp the same blood that sanctified them into the ground and did despite to the spirit of grace, these were bona fide Christians that thought they could backslide and simply be re-baptized unto the repentance they had at the beginning of their walk with Christ. They were told if they continue in such things they would have the fiery indignation of God, read it
Yes, that's a warning against apostasy. If someone is a true believer, the general pattern of their life should continue to be that of doing good, rather than doing evil. If someone goes back to behaving as they did before, then it shows that the faith the professed was not genuine. Being sanctified in that passage would refer to a temporary change in behaviour towards the positive, resulting from "finding religion" but not finding Christ.
@ukchristian28 Paul said that when we become saint were become heir and joint heirs of God; then that same Paul said that the heirs of God shall not inherit the kingdom of God if they continue in unrighteousness I Cor.6:9-10, Gal.5:21, Eph.5:5. Even Jesus said that at the end he would send his angel to gather out of the kingdom all that offend and do iniquity, that means they have been translated into the kingdom of God and are gather out for offenses and iniquity, Christian can lose salvation.
Paul, like the writer to the Hebrews warned his readers against apostasy. He didn't have the benefit of being able to see into people's hearts to tell who was truly born again and who was not. He therefore makes it clear that true saving faith brings repentence, and if someone shows a lack of fruit, it is likely they are not truly a believer. That fits perfectly well with the doctrine of the perserverence of the saints. Jesus is too perfect a saviour to lose people!
@ukchristian28 speaking of the unpardonable sin: If I convince someone that they are locked into salvation as being a Christian and the world demands that all people must have their eyes and finger prints scanned in order to participate in a world identification system opposed to Christ, If I convinced them they are saved even if they abide by a law of the land that is opposed to Christ and they do it, then am I as guilty as they are; if they are condemned so will I be; because I taught them.
Jesus kicking out evil doers proves only that there are false believers in the church. That proves nothing one way or the other concerning whether any of them were once true believers.
@ukchristian28 you can not make the heirs of God false believers, the NT salvation does not hinge on deciding whether you are a born again believer, if you repent in obedience to Christ and are baptize you are Christian. The heirs of God lose salvation continuing in unrighteousness. It is only your effort to make them never Christian in the first place, the bible never gives it that treatment any where and I defy you to show me one place where it does. Christian do fall away and are lost, period
What you are saying there reminds me of the heresy Paul was condemning in Galatians: trying to finish in the flesh what was started in the Spirit. Salvation does not depend upon us. It depends upon God's faithfulness and His power to keep us. Where is an apostate in scripture ever called a heir of God?
@ukchristian28 Paul is the writer here, I am only the bearer of the message, Paul said in Gal.5:21 that the heirs of God, the same heirs he spent the whole of Gal. chapter 3 and 4 convincing them they were heirs, he says to the same heirs that they will not inherit salvation into the kingdom of God if they continue in unrighteousness an apostate in scripture is call an heir in Gal.5:21 read it. and read Eph.5:5 and I Cor.6:9-10 and also I Cor. the 5th chapter the apostate that was a child of God
If Paul was addressing an audience of professing Christians he is going to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are genuine, as any Christian would today. You would only question someone's salvation if you had reason to do so i.e. if the person falls into false teaching which denies key doctrines of the faith or if the pattern of their life was that of doing evil rather than good. No where does it say that an apostate is a heir of God.
@ukchristian28 you are in blatant denial. Paul only speaks to those that are heirs about inheriting even as Heb.12:16 uses Esau as an example that no one of us be "the heir" and lose his inheritance as spoken of in Heb.1:11 did you read Heb.1:11 don't you know salvation is something we inherit and that we "Christians" are warned that if we continue in unrighteousness we shall not inherit. Paul does not warn the non Christian of inheriting anything, these are heir, Christians, inheritors he addr
Any references to "the unpardonable sin" in the Torah?
DarkQuietWyattON 6 months ago
@DarkQuietWyattON
I don't know of any places in the Torah where it put quite in those terms, but there are warnings concerning hardening one's heart, such as in Psalm 95:8. That would pretty much amount to the same thing i.e. witnessing the power of God but refusing to submit to God's truth regardless.
ukchristian28 6 months ago
plus free will makes no sense due to the fact that if god knows I would not believe in him before he made me then the point of me being here makes no sence in the first place because if he already knows everything that I'am going to do before I even do it then why did he not just send me straight to hell in the first place or heaven depending on what I believe or have done in my life? logic is not on your side my friend I would have to say!
InfernumSound 7 months ago
Thanks mate. The nature of this presentation is people can go over it again and again if they need to.
dazel10001 7 months ago
forgive me, but for me, as an outsider, it sounds like you make shit up as you go along.
a) you get all sorts of answers from xians to that questions (tho most dont know about it an/or dont care). so it cannot be clear at all.
b) your bible quotes dont seem to be related. you just twist the interpretation to fit.
c) if someone does magic stunts, i cant know if they are just tricks, the work of satan or the holy spirit or a psychic or a product of advanced technology.
cont.
theheinzification 7 months ago
@theheinzification cont
d) satan could very well pretend to cast out himself. isnt he the best liar of all?
e) and first of all: jesus said "whoever". THAT seems to be clear, no?
btw. you tend to say "in xianity it is like this and that". you should instead say "in my specific version of xianity ..." as you hardly represent all the often completely incomatible versions.
theheinzification 7 months ago
well thats good to know and real useful in case I am worried about zombie jews persecuting me for eternity due to my rejection of the "heavenly gitts" other than this 10% tithe bill I am not sure what gift I have been given. Oh yeah that is right, die first, then get gift. HALLELUJAH!
OIObserver 7 months ago
It must be nice to be such a simple minded fool and go through life with a belief in a Sunday School level of mumbo jumbo and never have to ever have a independent thought
allensbriarpatch 7 months ago
"I don't censor anyone, unless they break my three rules." Well said! So you do censor... thank you for admitting that you censor... or do you deny it further?
I see you read the "non theist" on my channel... but you clearly either did not finish reading or you simply cannot comprehend the text. Either way... your question is answered on my channel.
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz
I don't censor unless someone breaks my rules. I always censored people who gave out people's personal information and the other two rules I introduced after I started addressing racism. Threats of violence and hate speech are not welcome on my channel. Do you find something unreasonable about that?
I did read it. It says you don't subscribe to any religion. That doesn't tell me what your view is on the question of God existence.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 So you admit that you do censor? Yes or no... do you censor?
Which god are you referring to?
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz It is his channel. He can censor if he wants. It is like refusing service to people...that is allowed. You have a channel where you can spout your own views. Most of us believe in free speech. I believe David Douche has the right to stand up and spout his hatred for Jews all day along. I would not give him the platform to do it in front of my house and by the same token, would not give him the opportunity to do it on my channel. Commening on somone's page is a privilege, not a right
DarkQuietWyattON 6 months ago
@ukchristian28 Actually... my channel addresses this question as well.
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz
Oh yes. Writing "God is a myth" on bank notes under "God we trust". Very mature. That would also mean you're an atheist and you're just playing around with words to try to look clever.
Now, I am a little concerned that you accused me of false DMCAing people. I really would like to know what you were basing that on. I have actually spoken against that kind of thing numberous, and even took a lot of heat for defending the free speech of an unpopular racist poster on here.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I notice that you cannot bring yourself to answer my simple question... do you admit that you censor posts on youtube? Being dishonest is a defining characteristic of most xians... thank you for not disappointing me. Perhaps you should bother to look up the words that you fail to understand... such as "myth". As for the DMCA's... search it... I do not have to and it popped up. If you refuse to answer my question further, do not respond, this is boring.
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz
I do exactly what it says on my profile. If you don't the three rules I have posted on there, you won't get censored. I have censored and blocked people who have violated them. In every case the person was a racist posting hate and nothing more.
You are in the habit of accusing people of things without backing up your accusations? The only video I found was by me on my coffeeblackandstrong account. I made it to announce that I had been falsely DMCAed by Marmiteman4 fans.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 You fail to cover the loss of faith from personal catastrophic incidents, which also the bible convieniently fails to adress. The dogma posits that such people are tested only with in their limits but what if those limits are exceeded as they often are resulting in apostate people? The dichotomy of the situation indicates a serious flaw in this 'Great Plan' one of which only indicates that people are deliberately screwed over as if there's some how not enough room in Heaven.
DARTHMOBIUS 7 months ago
@DARTHMOBIUS
How is any of that relevant to the subject of this video? I don't see the connection, unless you are asking whether it is possible for someone to cease to love God and reject Christ due to a really bad experience, while still knowing that Christianity is true. Is that what you are getting at?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 One's relevancy was in relation to verasity of christianity, to you it's truth, perhaps simple or complicated. To those whom bad experiences have taken their toll, such verasity is nolonger present hence nolonger a Faith in christianity being true. Your video posits becomming apostate results in damnation to Hell Fire for which there is only the dogma to support, despite the evangelical proselytizing on The God Channel of Guided Tours of hell and meeting with Reptilianoid people
DARTHMOBIUS 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Perhaps I should attempt clarrification, but being a somewhat complicated Being this may end eroneously. My posit was that to those whom are tested to faiths obliteration had experienced The One revealing christianity is like all others, just a hotel on the road to Return, and that eventually you check out of that hotel, get on that transport and start reconnecting with The One. The Bible 'God' is only a test, a test of maturity as a being an idea to be transcended then.
DARTHMOBIUS 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I'm not Trolling or intending to cause offence, even though this is percieved verily often, your comfortable and balanced being a christian I applaud you I've assisted people to take solace with christianity and I've also assisted people in stepping away from it to some condemnation but each person has become the better for it in what ever capacity they have chosen I just do my job as tasked by The One. I've always felt Hell was a bad Idea but some people need motivation to evolve
DARTHMOBIUS 7 months ago
I see on your profile that you claim to never censor anyone...
I also see that you have been filing false DMCA's.
Tell me... are you playing the part of a typically lying xian... or will you blame others for "misunderstandings"?
(I really do not expect an honest answer here)
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz
I don't censor anyone, unless they break my three rules. Do you think any of the comments on my latest video would be still up if I did?
What? Where did you see that? Some troll on my main page making baseless accusations?
No, I make every effort to be honest and will admit to being wrong if shown to be.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@messiahjonz How do you know who files false DMCA's? The question that you asked was sort of akin to "Do you beat your wife did you stop doing that?" Either way he loses. You are some piece of work. Oh let me guess. You are super smart and therefore you think anyone who does not think like you is not intelligent and pretty much are smitten with what you see as your own intellectual superiority?
I see you are from Southern California. That about says it all. WOW
DarkQuietWyattON 6 months ago
@DarkQuietWyattON
He searched my username in the Youtube search engine and my video over on my Coffeeblackandstrong channel titled "Ukchristian28: Suspended Due to false DMCA Claims" apparently came up. What appears to have happened is that he took the title to mean that I was suspended for filing false DMCAs and didn't actually bother watching the video. Had he done so he would have found that it was made my me and that I was the one who had been DMCAed.
ukchristian28 6 months ago
@ukchristian28 From his channel I would say that is about what I would expect LOL
DarkQuietWyattON 6 months ago
@DarkQuietWyattON From your channel:"About Me: I have high functioning autism. I am also blind.
Pretty much I find much of You Tube to be a cesspool of cyber bulllies and sufferers of narcissistic personality disorder.
I am a Zionist Israeli-American Jew. Don't bother leaving hate mail about that because I have heard it all before.
I feel pity for the trolls who leave hateful comments."
I stopped reading this BS here.
But you leaving a bigoted comment is ok... go figure.
messiahjonz 6 months ago
@messiahjonz
What was bigoted about what he said? You falsely accused me of filing false DMCAs because you didn't bother watching the video to see who made it and how I came to be suspended. You took issue with me for censoring racist trolls when I am perfectly within my rights to do so as well as reasonable for me to do so. You also seem to have an inflated view of your own intelligence and like to play word games. His comments are justified.
ukchristian28 6 months ago
@messiahjonz That is BS? Ummm how? I am blind. I have HFA. I attend a state residential school. Apparently you can read but don't understand...is that what I am sensing here? You leaving an idiotic comment about which you know nothing is also ok...again, I would expect nothing else from someone who has a channel such as yours that is pretty narcissitc. So me calling you out on accusing him of filing false DMCA's and indicating your obvious love of self pissed you off? ROFL. Talk about BS LOL
DarkQuietWyattON 6 months ago
@DarkQuietWyattON BS = bullshit kid... "I feel pity for the trolls who leave hateful comments." That kid... is BS! Your comment concerning Southern California is bigoted. So now I have an angry bigot (notice I have not mentioned your disabilities... for which I pity you), and an angry lying hypocrite making posts to me... Guys, get a life... I am worth less than nothing... my opinions even less... but wait! Apparently in your worlds they do... they seem to mean a great deal. Peace to you
messiahjonz 6 months ago
@messiahjonz My comment about Southern California is not bigoted. It is my own experience. I found many people there to be very into themselves more than most other places I have lived. I live in Illinois right now and its just as bad....perhaps worse, I lived in Southern California a few years ago (although I loved Sharkey's tacos). You are not worth less than nothing. Who is a lying hypocrite? Ok, I might be a hypocrite but I am not a liar.
I would also love to get a life...
DarkQuietWyattON 6 months ago
@messiahjonz (Cont) but no one has any to give Sorry...bad joke. Dude, I am not a bigot I am just....umm..outspoken. Ok, actually, there is one group of people I am bigoted against so I guess in that regard I am a bigot but seriuosly, not against you. I was just wondering how you knew it was UK that DMCA's people?
Oh and my comment about the trolls was aimed primarily at the anti-Semites who leave me messages saying I should burn in an oven and things like that. I do feel pity for them.
DarkQuietWyattON 6 months ago
@messiahjonz Next time I will put something like: Gulf War vet, saw 6 years of combat, am 6 foot 5, lost 3 fingers on my right hand when I saved my entire unit from a grenade. There is no G-d. There is only me. No one can be above me. I am married to the sexiest woman on planet and we make love 3 times a day. I have the biggest schlong in the country and I am the president of MENSA and NASA comes to me for advise as does the President of the United States....
DarkQuietWyattON 6 months ago
@messiahjonz (Cont): Now that would be BS. Instead I put down that I am blind and have high functioning autism. I am barely 5'3 and look like I am about 12. I put down the truth and you seem to think its BS. Actually now that I think about it........I am guessing you seem to have trouble recognzing the truth when you see it because you think you know more about everything than anyone else. Ok...I will stop laughing now.
Southern California huh? I used to live there. G-d I hated it
DarkQuietWyattON 6 months ago
God formed jesus in the womb?You know how utterly stupid that sounds?And what is your evidence for your virgin birth?Your scriptures?.Please. You are in such denial about the sheer absurdity of your beliefs that all your reasoning and logic are ignored so you can live your life in this make belief world of yours.
oemfx1965 7 months ago
Total nonsense... Making this a sin only xians can commit is a catch 22. If you know the "truth" and refuse it. More interpretational nonsense from xians to justify more nonsense.
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz
A sin only Christians can commit? You mean to say "only a sin an unbeliever can commit", right? How is it a catch 22 and what's wrong with the exegesis I offered in the video?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 If one knows the "truth" them they are a believer... it matters not what they claim. By this as you stated, this makes even Satan a xian... for he knows the "truth". Therefore only a believer can commit this sin, but if one is a believer they cannot commit this sin... catch 22. It is only those that reject this nonsense for what it is... supernatural babble, flotsam, waste... that can commit this "sin".
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz
When we say "being a believer" we mean more than mere intellectual assent. To be a believer is to repent of your sins and place your trust in Christ to save you. That is not true of Satan and it is not true of those who commit the unpardonable sin.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 "We" mean? Speak only for yourself... unless you can provide evidence of authority to speak for others. By that definition there are no xians. Thank you.
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz
That's mainstream evangelical Christian doctrine. It's what the Protestant Reformation was all about It is also what every evangelical Christian church or group today holds to as well. So, I think I can pretty say "we" since my fellow believers agree with me.
"By that definition there are no xians. Thank you."
By what definition?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Do not believe everything you "think"... speak for yourself... unless you require the safety of numbers on your side. Um... the definition of a believer that you gave... please try to follow along.
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz
Oh don't be so downright arrogant and condescending. You're not exactly an intellectual giant and you are as much a part of a group as any religious believer. All you fundy atheists say the same stupid, ignorant things so talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
What was wrong with the definition I gave? Are you claiming that people never repent and trust in Christ to save them?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I am not sure what my intellect has to do with this...you must feel threatened to make such a comment... why not stick to the topic. I do not affilliate myself with a group concerning religion, and no, I am not an atheist... speak of arrogance, ignorance, and low intellect! Typical xian bashing a person that questions. Your definition sucks... you typed it, yet you cannot see the errors of your assumptions. Best you be more concerned with yourself instead of trying to bash others
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz
So what are you then? You have saying the same silly stuff which I thought you were. My apologies for the mistake however
Now, please explain what's wrong with my definition of a Christian. I can't very well interact if you don't explain yourself and so far you haven't.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Bother to read a profile for a change.
Interact? LOL... of course you cannot interact... you are too busy making assumptions, trying to insult my intellect and making asinine claims!
messiahjonz 7 months ago
@messiahjonz
Like what? And how is a non theist differ from being an atheist? Do you mean you subscribe the "lack of belief in God stance?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
My backing is circumstantial evidence..What is more believable.A secret affair which could explain a pregnancy or Spiritual Spermicide from a nonphysical entity?
oemfx1965 7 months ago
@oemfx1965
So, I take it you actually have no evidence for that assertion just an antisupernaturalist bias. "Spiritual spermicide" is not accurate either. God formed Jesus in the womb of Mary as he formed the universe. There is no sexual connotation there.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
Mary was NOT a virgin when she conceived Jesus.She had a secret affair and blamed her pregnancy of divine intervention.
oemfx1965 7 months ago
@oemfx1965
Really, do you have any backing for that? Also, why are you asking about it on here when this video has nothing to do with the virgin birth?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
The holy spirit is bunk, check out the rational response squad. Oh dear blasphemy on your page!!!
You're going to hell by proxy!!
stonestreaker 7 months ago
@stonestreaker
Wow, you just repeated the very view this video was made to deny! Are you usually in the habit of making stupid comments on Christian videos without even listening to what is said?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
So, let me ask you then. Do I have to believe in God, or Jesus' resurrection, to get into heaven, in your belief system?
BigLundi 7 months ago
@BigLundi
Yes.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 And if I don't, then what?
BigLundi 7 months ago
@BigLundi
Then you will suffer the eternal shame of your sins in Hell.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 So eternal torture for finite crimes? Hardly seems moral does it?
Ok, so are you saying no matter how serious, or how minor your 'crimes' are, you'll be suffering in hell for eternity if you don't accept Jesus as your savior?
BigLundi 7 months ago
@BigLundi
Torture is not taught in scripture. On the nature of Hell check out this video by TektonTV:
watch?v=-q5vGcpx1sY&feature=channel_video_title
On the justice of Hell check out this video by me:
watch?v=dMnqj4dNdWE
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Well, I know it talks lot about burning in fire. Sounds like torture to me :)
Also, I'd rather just get short answers from you about what you believe, instead of being directed to videos.
So I'm an atheist. I donate to charities, I help out my siblings, I work hard, and I'm a good person.
What exactly is gonna happen to me if I walk outside today, and get run over by a car and die, according to you?
BigLundi 7 months ago
@BigLundi
The language of Hell fire is symbolic. It represents eternal shame and separation from God. Ancient Israel was an honour/shame culture.
But you are not perfect. You can't claim to have loved God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and to have loved your neighbour as yourself perfectly at all times. Only that would be enough to be accepted by a Holy God.
Without trusting in Christ, you would face God's judgement.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 So, just to make sure this is clear.
I can be a very good person, who does many good things, who just isn't convinced that a God exists. "You shall suffer for eternity."
Meanwhile, a person who spends a good bit of their life doing horrible things, but then near the end goes, "You know, why not? I accept Jesus."
Person 2, in your scenario here, is way better off than me.
Have you ever heard Rbert G. Ingersoll's "Some Mistakes of Moses"?
BigLundi 7 months ago
@BigLundi
No one can possibly hope to come up to God's standards on their own merits. In God's sight our good works as as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). They can't possibly make up for our sinfulness. That's why salvation can only be due to God's mercy and grace (undeserved favour). It cannot be earned or deserved, but is a free gift to be accepted through faith alone.
No, but I read an article on him by J.P Holding which made him look quite clueless. What did he have to say?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 If God is so merciful, why can he not simply forgive me without this requirement of faith? I mean, he's the one that made me this way right? He's the one that made me unable to accept things on faith.
Robert G. Ingersol is one of the great minds of the 19th Century, also known as "The Great Agnostic."
In his writings of "Some Mistakes of Moses" he recants a few stories in the bible, and depicts the absurdity of their nature, then cautions the readers against laughing
BigLundi 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 For instance, the story of Adam and Eve he calls "The Rib Story."
He gies a scenario of a man going to God to be judged, and God says, "Have you been good?" The man says yes, he's given to charity, he has a loving family, a loving home, and left them with enough money to cover his funeral. He did not, however, belong to a church, as their interest in the suffering of those who didn't believe the same thing turned him off. And he found "The Rib Story" to be 'a bit much'.
BigLundi 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 So God then responds to the man by saying, "Burn him."
The second mand comes up, God asks if he was good, the man admits he stole from his own bank 20,000 dollars, and had sex with his neighbor's wife, while having a wife of his own. He does, however, belong to a church, and when asked if he believed "The Rib Story" the man said, "Oh yes! I only wish there weren't more unbelievable stories I could have faith in!" and God smiles and says, "Give that man a harp."
BigLundi 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 You are wrong. Salvation can only be due to God's mercy and grace and him having himself sacrificed to himself. I never got that part. If god is merciful and forgiving and loves me, and if he is omnipotent and makes all the rules, he can just choose to forgive me. Why have himself / his son tortured and killed? That makes no sense. It's like if Osama decided not to kill Americans anymore and just as an outlet for his bottled up rage therefore killed his children instead.
lagerbaer 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Can you give us clueless heathen some pointers as to how to tell which parts of the Bible are symbolic and which are literal? Is Genesis and the creation story literal or symbolic? Is his condemnation of homosexuality literal or symbolic? Is the resurrection literal or symbolic?
lagerbaer 7 months ago
@lagerbaer
How do you decide whether anything is symbolic or literal?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Since I do not put any trust in the Bible whatsoever, I don't take anything in the Bible at face value. A fundamentalist, otoh, takes everything in the Bible at face value. You appear to be somewhat in between, and therefore YOU have to do the explaining on what basis you make the distinction. If the resurrection is real but Noah's flood symbolic, please tell me why you think so.
lagerbaer 7 months ago
@lagerbaer
Again, how would you decide whether anything is symbolic or literal? Answer that question and you will likely have your answer the one you asked. Whether or not you believe the Bible is the word of God is irrelevant to the question.
No one takes everything in the Bible literally, no matter how fundamentalist they are. Even a Chick fundy would know that the blast of God's nostrils in Exodus 15:8 is not literal, since God is not a physical being.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 There is a difference between what I think is true or false, and what the writers of the Bible intended to be metaphors or literal accounts. I know that the creation account in Genesis most certainly did not happen that way. Science tells me that this is wrong. But I cannot know if the writers of the Bible MEANT it to be a literal or symbolic account. Funny enough, the criterion seems to be that everything that seems "too silly" is declared a metaphor. To me, it is all silly.
lagerbaer 7 months ago
@BigLundi
I really recommend you watch those videos. They are not that long. Tekton's is quite funny actually.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I watched them already, while I waited for your response, no worries.
BigLundi 7 months ago
Wow, that must really stink to try your best to serve that god and still worry he will send you to hell!
mayonasepatty 7 months ago
@mayonasepatty
Err, what indication have I given that I am worried about being sent to Hell? The point of this video is to demonstrate that the unpardonable sin cannot be committed by believers. It seems you have a severe comprehension impairment.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 This comment was not directed toward you. Rather, I was alluding to the person described in the video, who was stricken with this fear. Please note the absence of the "@ukchristian28" in my previous comment.
mayonasepatty 7 months ago
@mayonasepatty
Oh right. Well, on that one, my apologies.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
That's a fascinating concept, even though it contradicts morality and relieves christians of the responsibility of treating their fellow humans decently. You sir, are immoral and a threat to my species, we shall never be on kind terms for you have already picked a side that I cannot, nor can any civilized human being, accommodate.
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
Ok, you haven't answered any of my points in the video. People like you who make assertions without backing are a threat to the future of the species. If people like you become predominate, all of the people in the future will be irrational idiots.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I did reply to the concept of sin :) I thought you religious people were supposed to be more tolerant, even though I've never met one :) If a person like me, who does not believe in a god because there is no evidence supporting it, becomes the future of our species, the future will be irrational idiots? That's a fascinating contradiction. Irrational is, f.x. someone who believes in something without any evidence for it and especially if there is evidence against it ;)
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
I don't see any reason why I should be tolerant of stupid comments. Jesus wasn't and neither were the apostles. That I am allowing you to post such comments is tolerant enough I think.
No, they will be irrational idiots because they will think (like you) that making assertions without backing is an argument. How about you explain how anything I said in this video "contradicts morality and relieves Christians of the responsibility of treating their fellow humans decently?"
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Having someone else take on your responsibility of your actions (Mr. Jesus) is immoral ;) With that proposition, Mr. Jesus taking on your responsibilities, you are free to commit any disgusting act against your fellow man, especially if he does not agree with your fascist religious ideology ;) I know Mr. Jesus wasn't tolerant, besides all the fascinating hippie statements he did claim not to come to bring peace but the sword. He was kind of a prick like his old man.
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
The apostle Paul answered your first objection:
"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" (Romans 6:1-2).
True conversion brings repentance. It means regretting your sin, turning from it and crying out to God for forgiveness. That hardly involves ignoring personal responsibility. As Paul makes clear above, God then calls us to live a holy life. So you made a false charge.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Who the fuck is Paul? Perhaps if you had a reference from Jesus/God than I'd be interested but the hot-dog salesman on the corner? No. True conversion which than produces a real christian right? It is odd how all the 30.000 + denominations of christianity conclude themselves as being the true christian ;) Fascinating stuff.. True conversion, from a rational persons perspective, is rejection of reason, socially defined morality, respect for one's fellow man.
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
You really are providing me with lots of comments to nominate for screwball awards. The Apostle Paul was dramatically converted on the road to Damascus by a revelation of the risen Jesus which knocked him to the ground. He also knew some of the original apostles who knew Jesus personally. Peter for example. Oh and your comment about 30, 000 denominations is pretty stupid. It doesn't involve 30, 000 totally different points of view.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I've already been nominated for the screwball awards, let's keep our fingers crossed. The Apostle Paul.. and than you wrote something unverified and unproven which I cannot accept as a fact, but kudos for writing though ;) Peter, yes.. again, unverified and unproven.. but thanks. 30.000 + denominations who do not agree completely on the interpretation of the bible.. that probably tells us nothing :) Christians do not agree on what the bible says. Case closed.
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
Actually no. Luke wrote about it in the book of Acts as well. The fact in the four gospels, Acts and Paul and Peter's epistles we multiple attestation to the ministry of Jesus and His resurrection. If you are going to dismiss all that, then you need to be consistent and dismiss written accounts of all historical events from the ancient world.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 You think, Paul walking down a dirt road and falling down because of the "word of Jesus" is considered historically verified or even plausible? Because I don't think that's even valid as a hypothesis I should dismiss all other written historical events that do not sound ludacris? Surely if there was a script with a character known as Bubba the jiggly blubber weasel, who time traveled and interacted with all man kind than surely I would be somewhat sceptical ;)
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
The old classic presupposition against miracles rears its head again. Would you care to tell why you simply assume that the supernatural is impossible?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I never said it was impossible, I just said I'm not going to sit around listening to a crazy person talking about miracles without presenting some sort of evidence for it ;) I guess it kind of comes down to the burden of proof thing.. extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'll be waiting patiently while you conjure up the required data. I'm so exited right now, I think I just peed a little bit.
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
As for you 30, 000 + denomination comment, what kind of reasoning is that? Are you really saying that unless people agree on every point of a particular issue no one can come to any informed conclusions about it? Would you apply that to the scientific debate over whether global warming is real? Besides, that 30,000 denomination number is misleading as this video shows:
watch?v=n_ZXbrbfXrY
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I was pointing out the pathetic reasoning of christians and the fact that they don't agree. Why is it that the "perfect" book of good needs to be interpreted by the .. how to water this down .. the reality challenged? I'm sorry.. I'm a bit confused here.. are you comparing actual science to the gibberish you consider a valid possibility of reality? That's pretty messed up, I might even say that's going a bit too far. I'm really offended by your accusation :)
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
Socially defined morality? Hmmm, well that worked really well in Nazi Germany I must say:). I guess you would have to endorse Calvin's Geneva as well, if morals are devived socially. Oh and really, if embracing reason means not bothering to research things before spouting off, making stupid baseless assertions and appealing to emotion, I think I'll stick to the shackles of faith thank you very much:).
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 OH YES!!! I was referring to the 1930' and 1940' Catholic state of Germany with influences from the anti-semitic Lutheran version.. totally :) Oh, dear Calvin, being all kind but had to flee because of the religious.. yet being religious.. that's ironic :) Good religious against bad religious, interpretation VS interpretation.
I like your method of self criticism, it's just shows how much better you are than me. You honor our species with your selfless ability. Thank you :)
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
Lol, you clearly haven't understood my point. You said that morality is socially based. To be consistent with that reasoning you would have to endorse all kinds of things that you would consider detrimental to the well being of man. You can't condemn Lutheran anti-semitism, the transatlantic slave trade or Hitler's Holocaust. In fact, according to that reasoning someone like Martin Luther King would be immoral since he went against what was considered moral socially.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Surely, within that time period, anti-semitism was considered, by some, valid and moral. Now, decades later, as society has evolved it is considered immoral. Society changes and evolves, it evolves.. I'll repeat, it evolves :). In many societies, usually based on the notion that morality is finite and written in ancient, holy texts, one does not see society evolve or attempt to better itself through experience, unless the fundamentalist aspect starts to dwindle.
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
It evolves does it. So, if evangelical Christianity begins to rise again and becomes predominate then Christian moral values will be right then? You have groups today that promote paedophilia as something natural and right. I guess if in 40 years time they have managed to convince enough people that there is nothing wrong with an adult sleeping with a 10 year old then that will be right will it? Societies evolve in different ways. Why not embrace Iran's way of doing things?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Was your first sentence a claim or a question? Christian morality will always be crap because it's finite and cannot learn from it's mistake. If a democratic society legalizes sexual abuse of children than obviously they assume it's moral. I do not see this happening in a secular society, perhaps in a theocracy, but no in a secular society. Why not adhere to sharia law? Because it's a religious attempt of morality which will never work because it's finite and stupid.. come on!
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
And what do you suppose Jesus meant when he said he hadn't come to bring peace but a sword? Please do explain it to me and show your superior intellect and knowledge.
Finally, appealing to outrage is not an argument. If you want to say God is prick, then demonstrate how he is.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Well, being a violent prick, the son of an insane, disgusting prick, I assume that he meant that he wanted all the insane sheep followers to go and kill their fellow man, those who had not been brainwashed to adhere to this nonsense, you call christianity. Am I close?
I must appeal to outrage, before I explain, and express my disgust in you for not grasping the old testament depiction of your insane, god. Demonstration: See Old testament ;)
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
In other words you haven't bothered to actually look the verse up and read it in context. Instead you thought you would read whatever you liked into it in order to further your outrage appeals. The passage in question is Matt 10:34-36. Jesus is talking about the divisions and conflicts that will arise within one's family due to the gospel message. The sword is a metaphor for such division. How about you do some research in future before spouting off?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Oh, the sword is a metaphor? Odd, I was concluding that the violent character of Jesus was just continuing his violent behavior and demanding war against those he could not brainwash ;) I guess, instead, it's just rampant paranoia that concludes that all families are enemies of one another.. apparently some conclude that this is a reference to old testament from some Micah. In those days, children did not have human rights as they do today. Good we cleared that up.
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
No, it's talking about the fact that the gospel message will inevitably bring division within families because the family members will not like nor accept the message. The passage indicates that it will be the unbelieving family members who cause the trouble and persecution, not the Christians. Why don't you open an commentary on Matthew's gospel and learn something before spouting off? Your ignorance is embarrassing!
They didn't have human rights? What are you basing that on?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 It's talking about the "fact"? :) That's brilliant.. If there is anything history has taught us it's that christians are always persecuted and never the other way around. I feel so ashamed being the persecutor, except, I do live in a country with a "national religion", also known as "state religion".. Good times. Why do I not read more of the bible? Well, I have more important information to seek and gain. I wish I could interpret all my information like you do :)
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
That's all pretty irrlevant since the discussion was over what Jesus meant by not bringing peace but a sword. The passage in question is about division in the believer's families caused by family members rejecting the message.
If don't want to study the Bible why do you bother opening your mouth about it? Spouting off about things you know nothing about only leads your embarrassing yourself, as you have on this video.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I don't feel embarrassed :) I feel pretty good.
Who would instigate the division? In the cases I've observed, personally, it's the religious who instigate all divisions regardless of the situation in question. Sure, there will be division, in some occasions, but let's not forget who's the divider ;) What exactly is the message again?
afroschlan 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Really? You think I'm so stupid you have to repeat what you have said previously.. nice :)
afroschlan 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I would but researching just takes too much time :) I prefer to do the good old christian thing and interpret the bible just the way I want to, just the way it benefits my point of view ;) The bible sure has good message in it. People will rebel, parents need to stone their children to death for rebelling, perhaps they might even have their children molested sexually as a punishment or just because there's a visitor that needs some poon. Either way, good stuff ;)
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
You mean you're too downright lazy to gain any knowledge or understanding.
The Bible never says anything about children being molested as punishment. That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The passage about stoning kids is a reference to older young people who were doing things that threatened everyone elses survival, but I wouldn't expect a dimwit like you to know that.
Wow, ignorant and proud of it. What a bright future we have if people like you take over!
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Do personal insults serve a purpose in your form of debating? I'm just curious :)
You're swell, I enjoy your company vigorously.
There is no mention of threatening every-one's survival ;) You know this, it was a fine attempt to sway what it says or, interpret as you people often do but noooo.. glutton and a drunkard.. that's not the same. You know you could write more information if you skip the insults :)
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
You might also want to look up what an appeal to outrage is and why it's invalid:).
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 You might want to look up burden of proof and why your biblical claims are invalid ;) I've checked out what you asked and yes, I accept that the appeal to outrage is invalid yet I cannot see the exact implication of what I've written, perhaps you might shed a light on the connection, that would be nice, thanks.
afroschlan 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Also I didn't want to watch your whole video because it's fuck-boring, at least the couple of seconds I watched. I tried, I really did, but it's just so boring and useless.
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
I see. So if people like you become predominate as you hope, everyone is going to have the attention span of a gnat. Wow, what a vision! I made this for a 13 year old with ADHD and he managed to sit through it. That makes you look so utterly pathetic it beggers belief!
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I seriously advice you to release the 13 year old from your basement Mr. Fritzl :) Was the young person with ADHD on medication at the time you attempted to bore him/her to death with your fascinating religious rants? I guess brainwashing children is more suitable task for your given your impatience and inability to convince those who have actual knowledge of the world ;) I guess we'll just have to wait and see if your gnat prophecy comes to be real, again fingers crossed ;)
afroschlan 7 months ago
@afroschlan
That 13 year old kid is already more rational, knowledgable and mature than you will ever be. Unlike you he doesn't think that stupidity and ignorance of other people's beliefs are things to be proud of.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 That's nice, kudos on the 13 year old kid. Let's hope he doesn't kill anyone with all the religious brain-washing/grooming you've done.
afroschlan 7 months ago
So, once one leaves Christianity, one can never go back? Interesting. That seems rather heavy handed. Don't people get to make mistakes? In fact, of all of the sins one could never be forgiven of, this one seems most ludicrous to me. Kill someone? No problem. Repent, and all is well. Find "truth" elsewhere for a time and then realize the error later? Doomed forever.
Yeah, how about we go back and review the first few minutes of the video and see how that logic jives.
balanceseeker 7 months ago
@balanceseeker
Oh honestly, did you even listen to the video? It is not unpardonable because it is greater than murder or anything else, and thereby too great for Jesus' blood to cover. The sin involves having a mindset that rejects the truth even though you have been convinced of it. Someone with a mindset like that is never going to be forgiven because they will always refuse to repent and believe. That's why it's unpardonable. Please do try to listen in future.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I did try to listen and respond honestly, but moving on...
So, the mindset of non-justified unbelief is the unforgivable sin then? Once you have this mindset, you cannot realize your error later?
Oh, that's right. This mindset is simply applicable to those who do not repent later anyways. Then why mention it at all? After all, one can only be forgiven if one repents, and that would dismiss the charge of an unforgivable sin by rote. So, in effect, one's choice forgives oneself?
balanceseeker 7 months ago
@balanceseeker
It is certainly true that everyone who persists in unbelief until death will never be forgiven, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were convinced of the truth to the point of knowingly denying and rejecting it. What Jesus said serves as a warning not to be so stubborn and determined to reject the Christian faith that you will ignore the evidence even if it is clear and obvious.
Also, I never said that someone will necessarily have such a mindset permanently.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 "I never said..."
Okay, so then I return back to my original objection in a slightly rephrased format....
Christian acquires mindset (for a variety of reasons - perhaps being upset at something that has happened).
Person reject God out of spite (which I think adheres to the mindset you describe).
Person then calms down and asks for forgiveness.
Person is still damned.
So, then why is this so bad that it cannot be forgiven compared to what has been?
balanceseeker 7 months ago
@balanceseeker
As I said before, I don't necessarily think that a person will have such a mindset permanently. The sin is unforgivable in the sense that it prevents the person receiving forgiveness. If they do come out of that repent then they will be saved.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 "If they do come out of that repent then they will be saved."
Then, I submit, having that mindset is a forgivable thing, the same as I might forgive someone who broke something of mine, provided that individual ceased that behavior in the future.
balanceseeker 7 months ago
@balanceseeker
You still don't understand the concept it seems. It is called the unpardonable sin because as long as someone has that mindset they are prevented from coming to salvation and finding forgiveness.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Well, I can call breaking my things unpardonable, and then when someone asks for forgiveness pardon the individual. However, doing so just makes me look silly, doesn't it?
The thing is, if it is unpardonable, then it is unpardonable. If one can gain pardon for the unpardonable, then by definition, it is pardonable in the first case.
balanceseeker 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Also, I want to know what one would consider as "clear and obvious" evidence in this context. Plenty of people have actively looked for and saw nothing of the sort. Some people lost their faith as a result of not seeing "clear and obvious" evidence.
balanceseeker 7 months ago
@balanceseeker
I already gave an example in the video. The Pharisees had witnessed the strongest, clearest evidence in the ministry of Jesus i.e His many miracles and occasions where He drove out demons. They rejected Him regardless. It is difficult to say really as it would probably depend on a lot of things such as the person's ability to comprehend, emotional issues etc. But if they are convinced and reject it anyway, they would be committing the sin.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Yes, I remember the example. However, as Jesus is not around right now, nor do I see miracles of the magnitude presented in the Bible occurring in a blatant way, I am a bit skeptical to see how such an example might apply to anyone watching your video.
balanceseeker 7 months ago
I got question for you. If you know a man is false and not of God by the way he teaches things that are not scriptural yet he's supposively doing miracles. Is it blasphemy not to believe in him? Scripture says the devil uses signs and wonders.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and FALSE PROPHETS, and shall shew GREAT SIGNS AND WONDERS; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of DEVILS, working MIRACLES....
Cristiano4Gesu 7 months ago
@Cristiano4Gesu
Obviously not, and that's not the kind of mindset I was describing anyway. The mindset whereby someone commits blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is where they are convinced of the truth but decide to reject it anyway.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I was just asking, cause I have seen people that preach contrary to the word of God. Yet they are doing these miracles. But I have my doubts about them, I can't hear the Lord in thier speech , because of what they preach. So I don't want to be blaspheming God wondering how these folks are casting out devils, when they are teaching devil doctrines. When even Jesus said how can satan cast out Satan. How are these devils and false prophets doing miracles. I've wondered about this.
Cristiano4Gesu 7 months ago
Wow,you explained this REALLY well ! There was a time when I was VERY concerned about committing this sin myself .However ,that was some time ago and is no longer a concern :<)
mikeysback70 7 months ago
The only unpardonable sin is homosexuality. Oh, yes. And eating shrimp. Those are two big no-no's.
Pundit2k 7 months ago
@Pundit2k
No, people can be forgiven for homosexual acts, and we don't live in the Old Covenant age:).
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Thank goodness!! A *SANE* CHRISTIAN!!!!! THERE IS A GOD!!!!
Pundit2k 7 months ago
I John 5:16 is about blasphemy; it is a sin which brings about spiritual death to others, such as the many Jewish leaders which rejected the Christ and still do til this day. When others that follow them are condemned by their rejection, this is a form of leadership responsibility that carries the death penalty “blasphemy of the spirit”! Same for us should we individually cause someone to separate from the Lord or as a teacher by teaching a doctrine that causes the followers to fall away.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen
Yes, the reference to the sin which leads to death is probably a reference to a false teaching within the church which places people outside of the true faith. I don't think that has anything to do with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 how can someone teach others into condemnation and then repent and find mercy seeing that many of those that are condemned of his teachings will be his judge in that day? Anything you do to cause someone to depart from the faith has very much to do with blasphemy of the spirit, because blasphemy of the spirit means to break or cause to break or depart. Jesus said the Pharisees children would judge them for putting them up to their lies, certainly this is blasphemy.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen
But if some of Pharisees who did that later repented they would be saved. John 3:16 says "whoever believes" will be saved, Romans 10:12 says that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Jesus in John 6:40 says" everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." There is not a single sin that Jesus did not die for and therefore not a single sin that won't be forgiven a repentant sinner.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Jesus if you offend one of these little ones "meaning his people" if you cause them to depart from the Lord, it would be easier to return from the depth of the sea after being cast in with a boulder tied about your neck. And it was Jesus that told the Pharisees that they would be judge by those they put up to their lies and trickery. The application of this is is to the kingdom of God the church , that after one becomes a Christian causing others to leave the Lord is blasphemy.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
Heb.6:4 is mistaken to be talking about blasphemy of the spirit, no. The Hebrew Christians were immature, believing that they could backslide into willful sin and do despite to the spirit of grace and simply be re-baptized and be brought back to a clean slate with God “repentance”. They believed they could be renewed unto repentance and be as clean as they were when they first believed, but they were reprimanded told that if they stomp on the same blood that sanctified them they are condemned.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen
The writer doesn't seem to be talking about all of the Hebrew Christians in those verses. He is talking about a group who have fallen away and then he contrasts them with the Christians he is addressing. "But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you..." (verse 9). The fact that the group described in verses 4-6 were once enlightened etc suggests to me that they knew the truth but rejecting it anyway, which it was impossible to bring them to repentence.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 I agreed it was impossible to bring them to repentance, that means it is impossible to return to the state of being whole, clean without sin as you were when you were first baptized in repentance unto God as in the beginning. Remember Gal.6:1 speaks of the brother that is overtaken in a sin, that he should be converted, let's face it, God's people can and do often backslide, but as long as they live they can return and be restore with God, its not impossible in such cases.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen
Yes, which means the people in Hebrews 6:4-6 never truly came to saving faith in the first place. They were rejecting the truth despite being convinced. True believers as you say may backslide (I have in the past unfortunately) but if they are truly born again, God will bring them back to Himself.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 no no no Heb.10:26-30 make it overwhelmingly clear these were they that had been sanctified by the blood of the Lord and stomp the same blood that sanctified them into the ground and did despite to the spirit of grace, these were bona fide Christians that thought they could backslide and simply be re-baptized unto the repentance they had at the beginning of their walk with Christ. They were told if they continue in such things they would have the fiery indignation of God, read it
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen
Yes, that's a warning against apostasy. If someone is a true believer, the general pattern of their life should continue to be that of doing good, rather than doing evil. If someone goes back to behaving as they did before, then it shows that the faith the professed was not genuine. Being sanctified in that passage would refer to a temporary change in behaviour towards the positive, resulting from "finding religion" but not finding Christ.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Paul said that when we become saint were become heir and joint heirs of God; then that same Paul said that the heirs of God shall not inherit the kingdom of God if they continue in unrighteousness I Cor.6:9-10, Gal.5:21, Eph.5:5. Even Jesus said that at the end he would send his angel to gather out of the kingdom all that offend and do iniquity, that means they have been translated into the kingdom of God and are gather out for offenses and iniquity, Christian can lose salvation.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen
Paul, like the writer to the Hebrews warned his readers against apostasy. He didn't have the benefit of being able to see into people's hearts to tell who was truly born again and who was not. He therefore makes it clear that true saving faith brings repentence, and if someone shows a lack of fruit, it is likely they are not truly a believer. That fits perfectly well with the doctrine of the perserverence of the saints. Jesus is too perfect a saviour to lose people!
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 speaking of the unpardonable sin: If I convince someone that they are locked into salvation as being a Christian and the world demands that all people must have their eyes and finger prints scanned in order to participate in a world identification system opposed to Christ, If I convinced them they are saved even if they abide by a law of the land that is opposed to Christ and they do it, then am I as guilty as they are; if they are condemned so will I be; because I taught them.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen
Jesus kicking out evil doers proves only that there are false believers in the church. That proves nothing one way or the other concerning whether any of them were once true believers.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 you can not make the heirs of God false believers, the NT salvation does not hinge on deciding whether you are a born again believer, if you repent in obedience to Christ and are baptize you are Christian. The heirs of God lose salvation continuing in unrighteousness. It is only your effort to make them never Christian in the first place, the bible never gives it that treatment any where and I defy you to show me one place where it does. Christian do fall away and are lost, period
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen
What you are saying there reminds me of the heresy Paul was condemning in Galatians: trying to finish in the flesh what was started in the Spirit. Salvation does not depend upon us. It depends upon God's faithfulness and His power to keep us. Where is an apostate in scripture ever called a heir of God?
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 Paul is the writer here, I am only the bearer of the message, Paul said in Gal.5:21 that the heirs of God, the same heirs he spent the whole of Gal. chapter 3 and 4 convincing them they were heirs, he says to the same heirs that they will not inherit salvation into the kingdom of God if they continue in unrighteousness an apostate in scripture is call an heir in Gal.5:21 read it. and read Eph.5:5 and I Cor.6:9-10 and also I Cor. the 5th chapter the apostate that was a child of God
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen
If Paul was addressing an audience of professing Christians he is going to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are genuine, as any Christian would today. You would only question someone's salvation if you had reason to do so i.e. if the person falls into false teaching which denies key doctrines of the faith or if the pattern of their life was that of doing evil rather than good. No where does it say that an apostate is a heir of God.
ukchristian28 7 months ago
@ukchristian28 you are in blatant denial. Paul only speaks to those that are heirs about inheriting even as Heb.12:16 uses Esau as an example that no one of us be "the heir" and lose his inheritance as spoken of in Heb.1:11 did you read Heb.1:11 don't you know salvation is something we inherit and that we "Christians" are warned that if we continue in unrighteousness we shall not inherit. Paul does not warn the non Christian of inheriting anything, these are heir, Christians, inheritors he addr
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen
It looks like my next video is going to have to be on the sovereignty of God in salvation and how God never fails to keep any of His elect.
ukchristian28 7 months ago