Does Science Really Lead to Atheism? ( Adam's Opening Statement - 2 of 4 )

[Telamnar]

The world is observably orderly: we see that the sun rises and sets in a regular way, that people are born, grow old, and die, that fire is hot, that water is wet, and so on. The amount of evidence for this assertion is mountainous. To say that science cannot prove it is ridiculous - science proves the universe is orderly every time a pattern is spotted within it.

To question the reliability of the senses is also a bit silly - we all eat when hungry, sleep when we're tired, and so forth.

[Telamnar]

While it is obvious that our senses sometimes mislead us, it has also been conclusively shown that we can also check our senses and reasoning against each other, and reach more accurate conclusions.

Now, Deen might well argue that we don't know for certain that the new conclusions are themselves reliable, but simply pointing out that we can never be certain is nothing more than the Problem of Induction - something scientists have known about for over 100 years.

[italiatua]

@Telamnar Something scientists have known about for over 100 years.

In more than hundred years mathematicians and scientists whom tried to leave Creator a side and invented so many irrational theories and stuff that never can be proving in lab,some of example:sub particles,dark matter,dark energy,black hole,and bending of space and time..so on all human imagination--->

watch?v=chvLmDBHDmI

watch?v=gFnp0Qra6N4&feature=ch­annel_video_title

watch?v=wHHz4mB9GKY

[Telamnar]

@italiatua

Curvature of space time has been verified by Gravity Probe B, not to mention the orbit of mercury!

Sub particles - no idea what those are, but if you mean subatomic particles, they have been observed.

Dark matter and Dark energy have at least a bit of evidence behind them.

There have been some observations made that could be black holes, which are in any case theoretically predicted by relativity.

Scientists are not making this stuff up.

[italiatua]

@Telamnar there in no such thing as space&time only human imagined stuff and bending as saying i can bend love.

subatomic particles, they have been observed..

please provide a single evidence for subatomic particles.

Dark matter and Dark energy ..

one more modem science invention with no proof.

black holes.

black worms,NASA is trying to prove them but not able to provide a single peace of evidence yet but help mathematicians in math for equation.

[Telamnar]

@italiatua I take it you have not looked into the verified predictions of the General Theory of Relativity.

Subatomic particles have been observed in experiments on radioactive decay, in observations of cosmic rays, and experiments at particle colliders. Look these up.

Dark matter is what is causing distant galaxies to rotate faster than we think they should be.

Dark energy is what is causing the universe to expand at an accelerating rate.

To say there is no evidence for these is wrong.

[italiatua]

@Telamnar No man ever observed subatomic particles so stop it..

first you will need to prove dark mater then can talk about causing as usually people make assumptions with showing scientifically what dark IS...

AGAIN DARK MATTER IS CAUSING OR DARK ENERGY IS CAUSING OR BLACK HOLE IS CAUSING THE MOVEMENT IN THE UNIVERSE?PLEASE FIRST DECIDE THAN PROVE ONE OF THEM TO PROVE ME WRONG.

WATCH THE VIDEO AND FOLLOW THE LINK BELLOW THE VIDEO:

watch?v=gFnp0Qra6N4&feature=ch­annel_video_title

[Telamnar]

@italiatua Thank you for the long capitalised rant. It makes you seem very calm and reasonable.

First of all, no-one is certain dark matter exists. It is simply postulated to explain the behaviour of galaxies. Astronomers are currently trying to find out more.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Movement in the Universe', so I cannot answer that question.

Regarding the video you sent me, you might want to check out the wiki article on point particles - paragraph 4.

[italiatua]

@Telamnar Not offense, was busy to answer different comments on videos.sorry

WIKI

A point particle (ideal particle[1] or point-like particle, often spelled point like particle) is an idealized object heavily ..

Do you can see the word ***idealized***often spelled point like particle?

[Telamnar]

@italiatua Read the rest of it, please.

[italiatua]

@Telamnar I am doing from long these searches so i say most of modern theories they present are human conjectures...

[Telamnar]

@italiatua Wow.

I just watched the first video you suggested.

That guy is a moron.

The surface of a sphere - not the sphere itself, but its surface - is indeed 2-dimensional. Since your position on the spherical Earth's surface can be specified by 2 co-ordinates (lattitude and longitude), it is correct to say that the surface is 2d.

What an idiot.

I'm sure that English is not your first language, but that's no excuse for not understanding that guy.

[italiatua]

@Telamnar So you means that earth is two dimensional?or just to justify and make math equation.

Do we lives in three dimensional world or four dimensional world as mathematician said in the video?

[Telamnar]

@italiatua No, the Earth's surface is two dimensional (to describe one's position on it only 2 co-ordinates are needed), and the Earth itself is three-dimensional (taking into account its sphericity - if you dug a hole, you would need to specify your altitude). Our universe contains at least 4 dimensions (that is, length, width, height and time).

[italiatua]

@Telamnar So the time is a dimension human knows three dimension not four.may it is the invention of math to support their math equation but it is not scientific.

in witch direction the dimension of time goes if you cut off length, width,and height?

[Telamnar]

@italiatua I do not understand this question.

[italiatua]

@Telamnar When human failed to understand the building block of matter and forces than they start to make suggestions as subatomic particles,dark matter,black hole, dark energy, bending of space in some way to understand the active power behind the existence,every time when human see extra huge objects moving, they ask question than answer himself may be there is some thing than invent names and try hard to prove them but to prove conjecture is impossible.

[Telamnar]

@italiatua There is usually at least some evidence to support things scientists assert are true. Wikipedia is a good place to start looking for evidence - it generally cites its sources.

Just asserting that it's conjecture and ignoring the evidence is not a good argument.

[italiatua]

@Telamnar If you watched the given videos link than try to get on it...

Lambs to the Slaughter full vr.Shaykh Hamza Yusuf

you can find on you tube..or searching on web...

thank for your dedicated time.Good luck

[GhostInTheShell29]

@italiatua We scientifically proved the world was round, long before magellan sailed around it. We scientifically proved the sun was at the center of the solar system before we ever got into outer space to confirm it. Its easy to prove or disprove a hypothesis is you have the evidence you need, and understand the evidence. We can measure dark matter, dark energy, and black holes, we however lack evidence to describe them in detail. Buts its not conjecture to say something measurable exists.

[italiatua]

@GhostInTheShell29 First you will need to explain who you refer when you say(we>>>atheism?)than the second question i will ask how you will measure something when you don't know what you are measuring?

we knows sun and earth, see them.

[GhostInTheShell29]

@italiatua No by we just mean intelligent people. How do you measure an object you can't identify length? with a tape measurer, We measured water for thousands of years before we ever learned it was comprised of 2 hydrogen and one oxygen. We measure gravity, and still can't fully explain it.

[italiatua]

@GhostInTheShell29

it was comprised of 2 hydrogen and one oxygen.

no one can see water clear structure under microscope here a little example on wiki:Resolution of the SEM

and the best human being produced:

watch?v=sCYX_XQgnSA&feature=pl­ayer_embedded#at=93

[GhostInTheShell29]

@italiatua........ Whats your point? That the only sense we can trust is sight?. And that your not sure water is comprised of H2O

Otherwise you didn't counter any of my points. You don't need to know everything about something, to know something about it. So even though we don't know much about things like dark matter, we know something about it, because we can measure its effect.

Just like you can measure a glass of water, or a glass of an unidentified liquid just the same.

[italiatua]

@GhostInTheShell29 That is actually my point in last two hundred year a particular group, called scientists who give only delusion to humanity,here are some issues from them just to show you.i will say does not exist:

dark matter,dark energy,black holes,subatomic particles,bending of space-time imagined by Einstein etc.

if you claim i am wrong then onus on you to prove just one of them.Good luck

[GhostInTheShell29]

@italiatua Well since you gave me so many options, I will pick black holes, as that be the easiest.... Seeing as theres a big one right in the center of the milkyway galaxy.

We can measure it. It is roughly 4.1 million solar masses, and has a radius no bigger then 6.25 light hours.

Based on the orbits of nearby stars this is mathmatically verifiable.

[italiatua]

@GhostInTheShell29 Google:

Astronomy Answers

AstronomyAnswerBook: Black Holes

there in no such thing black hole you will find all possible answer but no actual proof for them..

you can try also NASA too with a same conclusion as i mentioned before..

[GhostInTheShell29]

@italiatua What do you call the strange amount of gravitational pull at the center of the galaxy? Since its measurable it should have a name. Just like the same strange thing that seems to swallow up stars while spitting out high energy particles. Since we can measure and watch its consumption of matter. We know "something" must exist and be doing this. Unless you want to suggest the gravitational pull is super natural, otherwise something must be doing it. and things have names.

[italiatua]

@GhostInTheShell29 ..seems to swallow up stars while spitting out high energy particles...

there is no such thing but a conjecture invented by mathematicians and saying, it ***seems to swallow***in not a knowledge but guessing without knowing and congratulation for measuring unknown.

once again please prove a single particle that human learn in their basic schooling like electrons,protons,and neutrons U can not and i know no one can prove them so i request to see the Light of ONE God.

[GhostInTheShell29]

@italiatua You perceive only with your eyes, not with your mind. Ironically making you blind to most of god's greater works.

Want me to prove electrons exist. Stick a fork in an electrical outlet... Yes i understand you will never actually "SEE" the electrons that seem to be shocking you. But much like I know theres oxygen in my room without ever seeing it, people have the capacity to understand things through logic and deduction, rather then relying soley on one of the five senses.

[italiatua]

@GhostInTheShell29 Hahaha but people have no deduction to understand about Creator,the air they breath,the water they drink,the food they eat,and the life they consume,stick a fork in electric outlet does not prove electron but electricity and the oxygen we breath does not prove electron either YOU NEED TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIM WITH SOME THING DIFFERENT...

[GhostInTheShell29]

@italiatua THE OXYGEN IN THE ROOM PROVES A RATIONAL HUMAN BEING IS CAPABLE OF KNOWING SOMETHING WITHOUT RELLYING ON THE SENSE OF SIGHT. THAT DISPROVES YOUR ENTIRE THEORY THAT ANYTHING THAT CAN'T BE DIRECTLY SEEN IS UNPROVABLE.

[italiatua]

@GhostInTheShell29 You missed the target the comment is below to answer and the comment you're answering is old comment...

[GhostInTheShell29]

@italiatua If it wasn't for electrons? how exactly are you online? Surely something must be carrying power to your house and a signal from your house.

Is God making my posts appear on youtube?

And if neutrons and protons are a lie.... how comes nuclear power plants haven't figured out nuclear reactions aren't real and are all imaginary yet?

Face it, your trying to deny everyday things that exist around us. You don't accept this world, and replace it with your own fantasy.

[italiatua]

@GhostInTheShell29 1

Again if we are on-line not because of electrons, Do you or anyone see or observed the fellow of electron in a electric wire?if your answer is YES than provide evidence or a single actual picture of electrons.

saying something is carrying power to our house is one another claim without proof as i showed you before.

nuclear power has nothing to do with electron you are putting to many irrelevant issues but not able to provide evidence for electrons.

everyday thing

[italiatua]

@GhostInTheShell29 2

so what actually this everyday thing?

there is no need for any fantasy just prove,show,provide evidence for an actual electron.simple

Good luck and pardon for being late.

[GhostInTheShell29]

@italiatua Once again, you can prove the existence of electrons merely by sticking a fork in an outlet, or putting a plugged in toaster into the bathtub with you. You can climb a metal ladder, and use a knife to poke through the protective lining of a power line. Yes I understand by your definition of proof you will never actually physically see the electron.

So it will proof nothing to you, but at least it will make for a great headline, woman who doesn't believe in electricity shocked!

[italiatua]

@GhostInTheShell29 So you actually understood there is no actual proof for electrons but repeat yourself on issue please Google these words:orbits and orbitals than follow the first link,read ABOUT author of web site,after 30 years of teaching experience he wrote:

****The short answer to this is that we don't know. In fact, it's more than that - current theory says that it is impossible to know****.

[Telamnar]

Unfortunately, using God as an answer is not distinguishable from saying, 'I don't know'.

[italiatua]

@Telamnar than how to resolve it please give a look here:

watch?v=Z2nWuGZDdvY&feature=ch­annel_video_title