So basicly all you need is the TTS collet, and then make your own holders. Collet is only 20 bucks. I could whip up a bunch of holders on my lathe. I have an RF20, I wish it would handle the air on the collet shaft.
@xlrationmarine Yes, that is all you need. I am a big fan of the genuine TTS holders - I have many, and they are far better than my homemade ones; especially in the area of the shoulder that ensures good contact with the spindle face. But many holders are non-critical, such as the ones for spot and center drills, or measurement tools; and on those you can save a lot of money by making them yourself.
Another X3/TTS user here. Excellent job on the TTS holders and the video! One thing I noticed is that the Tormach tools have a relief on the spindle side of the 3/4" shaft, to ensure the tool rests only on the spindle face and not on the collet or any other protrusions. I suspect it's probably fine as-is for most applications but it seems an easy detail to consider adding. Kudos again!
Very nice... I may get a Tormach set based on this video... make a few dozen holders and have the tools ready to go, including my most used drill sizes. Why did you start with 1.5" drill rod instead of 1" ? What is the runout (TIR) you get with your holders (on the held tool) versus what you get with the original holders?
@ExtremeMojo3 I used 1.5" drill rod because the ones I bought from Tormach had a 1.5" shoulder. It could be smaller, but if you create a relief in the face like the genuine toolholders it needs to be greater than the diameter of the R8 collet which is close to 1". I have made toolholders using 3/4" drill rod pressed into DOM tubing (3/4" ID, 1/4" wall) as well. I've only measured one toolholder - a center drill which measured .002 TIR. Lots of ways to make it better if needed (like boring).
Nice pair of videos. I've always thought it was a neat concept to use the mill as a vertical lathe. On those toolholders, you may notice that there is a relief on the shank side of the tool holder body on the genuine Tormach holders. This helps with pressure and repeatability. They detail this on their website. Go to "products"-"tormach tooling system"- "about tts" and then look for the "tts animation" link on the left side of the page.
@chuckmerja I am EXTREMELY happy with my CNC conversion. It was a kit from CNCFusion. I used the Deluxe kit which is advertised as 0 backlash, and as far as I am concerned that is what I am getting. I'm sure if I worked at it, I could find some little backlash, but why work?
I have heard that replacing the leadscrew nuts with a delrin block can help with backlash on Acme on the X2 (don't know about the X3). If you ever decide to upgrade I recommend CNCFusion
A boring operation instead would bring the hole back on axis. As they are bored "in place" they would likely even be more accurate than the "factory" holders if you put an index mark on them and always installed them the same way relative to the collet and spindle.
@titchener Thank you for the suggestion. I hadn't tried boring because most of my tool holes so far have been small (.375 or less) and I don't have a boring tool that small. I agree it would be far more accurate, so I'll have to try to find something that could bore small holes.
These holders would be really accurate if you replaced the final reaming operation with a boring operation instead. The drill is always going to wander to some degree, pulling your hole centerline off axis. The reamer will follow this off center hole.
@devers6 It might not change the precision (looks like you are already happy with that) but - if anything - it just helps optically. I hate seeing things wobble in the spindle... always makes me question whether something is wrong (e.g. burr/chip on a collet/sleeve/etc)
@kingjamez80 I haven't measured, but it has been good enough for my purposes. I get better centering on the mill than I do with my mini-lathe and its tailstock. I didn't show it in the video, but the way I make sure the drill chuck is vertical is to mount another drill chuck in the spindle, leave the lower chuck loose, and chuck the rod in both. Then I tighten up the bolts mounting the chuck to the table. I wouldn't call it super precise, but it has worked for me so far.
Great video - very nice quality and well produced. Have you thought about drilling & reaming before profiling the outside? That should prevent the alignment wobble seen around 2:15 ?
@saunixcomp Thanks - I enjoy watching your videos as well. I'll try switching around the order of operation the next holder I make, and see if it makes it any better. I'm happy with the results I've gotten so far; these toolholders are mostly for my non-critical tools, so I haven't tried to get ultimate precision. I know the methods of dialing in with a DTI when I have to get it exactly right, but for hobby work I seldom need to.
great work and vid's , thanks!
landlockedviking 1 month ago
So basicly all you need is the TTS collet, and then make your own holders. Collet is only 20 bucks. I could whip up a bunch of holders on my lathe. I have an RF20, I wish it would handle the air on the collet shaft.
xlrationmarine 5 months ago
@xlrationmarine Yes, that is all you need. I am a big fan of the genuine TTS holders - I have many, and they are far better than my homemade ones; especially in the area of the shoulder that ensures good contact with the spindle face. But many holders are non-critical, such as the ones for spot and center drills, or measurement tools; and on those you can save a lot of money by making them yourself.
devers6 5 months ago
Another X3/TTS user here. Excellent job on the TTS holders and the video! One thing I noticed is that the Tormach tools have a relief on the spindle side of the 3/4" shaft, to ensure the tool rests only on the spindle face and not on the collet or any other protrusions. I suspect it's probably fine as-is for most applications but it seems an easy detail to consider adding. Kudos again!
TangentAudioVideo 10 months ago
Great video. I have a cnc SX3. What are you using for your power drawbar?
gregorytpriest 11 months ago
Very nice... I may get a Tormach set based on this video... make a few dozen holders and have the tools ready to go, including my most used drill sizes. Why did you start with 1.5" drill rod instead of 1" ? What is the runout (TIR) you get with your holders (on the held tool) versus what you get with the original holders?
Thanks!
ExtremeMojo3 1 year ago
@ExtremeMojo3 I used 1.5" drill rod because the ones I bought from Tormach had a 1.5" shoulder. It could be smaller, but if you create a relief in the face like the genuine toolholders it needs to be greater than the diameter of the R8 collet which is close to 1". I have made toolholders using 3/4" drill rod pressed into DOM tubing (3/4" ID, 1/4" wall) as well. I've only measured one toolholder - a center drill which measured .002 TIR. Lots of ways to make it better if needed (like boring).
devers6 1 year ago
Nice pair of videos. I've always thought it was a neat concept to use the mill as a vertical lathe. On those toolholders, you may notice that there is a relief on the shank side of the tool holder body on the genuine Tormach holders. This helps with pressure and repeatability. They detail this on their website. Go to "products"-"tormach tooling system"- "about tts" and then look for the "tts animation" link on the left side of the page.
harley573 1 year ago
NICE - thanks! Nice production and nice topic coverage.
Looks like you have a lot less backlash on your table than I do (I just have ACME threads, not ballscrews.)
chuckmerja 1 year ago
@chuckmerja I am EXTREMELY happy with my CNC conversion. It was a kit from CNCFusion. I used the Deluxe kit which is advertised as 0 backlash, and as far as I am concerned that is what I am getting. I'm sure if I worked at it, I could find some little backlash, but why work?
I have heard that replacing the leadscrew nuts with a delrin block can help with backlash on Acme on the X2 (don't know about the X3). If you ever decide to upgrade I recommend CNCFusion
devers6 1 year ago
(last post continued, ran out of space)
A boring operation instead would bring the hole back on axis. As they are bored "in place" they would likely even be more accurate than the "factory" holders if you put an index mark on them and always installed them the same way relative to the collet and spindle.
titchener 1 year ago
@titchener Thank you for the suggestion. I hadn't tried boring because most of my tool holes so far have been small (.375 or less) and I don't have a boring tool that small. I agree it would be far more accurate, so I'll have to try to find something that could bore small holes.
devers6 1 year ago
These holders would be really accurate if you replaced the final reaming operation with a boring operation instead. The drill is always going to wander to some degree, pulling your hole centerline off axis. The reamer will follow this off center hole.
titchener 1 year ago
@devers6 It might not change the precision (looks like you are already happy with that) but - if anything - it just helps optically. I hate seeing things wobble in the spindle... always makes me question whether something is wrong (e.g. burr/chip on a collet/sleeve/etc)
saunixcomp 1 year ago
How do you mount your drill chuck perfectly vertical?
I haven't had much luck on super precision with the probe method of centering. How accurate are you getting? I'm lucky to have 0.003" repeatability.
kingjamez80 1 year ago
@kingjamez80 I haven't measured, but it has been good enough for my purposes. I get better centering on the mill than I do with my mini-lathe and its tailstock. I didn't show it in the video, but the way I make sure the drill chuck is vertical is to mount another drill chuck in the spindle, leave the lower chuck loose, and chuck the rod in both. Then I tighten up the bolts mounting the chuck to the table. I wouldn't call it super precise, but it has worked for me so far.
devers6 1 year ago
Great video - very nice quality and well produced. Have you thought about drilling & reaming before profiling the outside? That should prevent the alignment wobble seen around 2:15 ?
saunixcomp 1 year ago
@saunixcomp Thanks - I enjoy watching your videos as well. I'll try switching around the order of operation the next holder I make, and see if it makes it any better. I'm happy with the results I've gotten so far; these toolholders are mostly for my non-critical tools, so I haven't tried to get ultimate precision. I know the methods of dialing in with a DTI when I have to get it exactly right, but for hobby work I seldom need to.
devers6 1 year ago