Aikido Motion Capture - Color by Speed

[TheHachibeekillerbee]

THANK YOU !!

[Kazuo1234]

One important question, the scale is absolute or normalized? Absolute would be like blue is almost zero and red appr 10 m/s. Normalized would be like, in all the captured motion, red is fastest (100%) and all other colors are proportional to it.

If it's normalized scale, the video has very little worthness. If it's absolute, what are the values?

[CristianobrazucaBr]

the music makes look like they are dancing

[MrButsu]

I like the idea to use motion capture technology to analyze and visualize Aikido movements. But all examples you showed do not represent really good Aikido, imho. The footwork is not precise, torsos are bent to much forward etc.

Why not ask some really excellent Aikidoka for these captures?

[ShiroKage009]

@MrButsu It's not the best motion capture there is, and neither is the animation.

If you saw the actual people I think they would be just fine.

[MrButsu]

@ShiroKage009

I see. That's of course perfectly possible. Can you post some of the original footage to see how well it was translated into animation? Do you know if there are large area force plate arrays to analyze the ground forces at the same time? I am very interested in the biomechanics of Aikido and such a combination would make a great method...

[ShiroKage009]

@MrButsu I did not see the actual footage which is why I said "think", but they seem good as their reactions and falling look spot on.

As someone who began practicing Aikido recently, I would suggest adding an alternative view where the paths of selected parts of the body (center of mass/attacking tool or limb) are plotted so as to visualize the path of energy. This would tell a lot as Aikido tends to not confront and tends to use existing momentum in many ways.

[MrButsu]

@ShiroKage009

that would be interesting, indeed. But what I had in mind was a combination of motion capture with ground reaction force measurements (since most of the energy used in motion ultimately comes from the ground) and biomechanical modelling. This would allow to visualize the patterns of necessary muscular tension / organization. An interesting software in this respect is made by the company anybodytech.

[silviucalmus]

@zacktillery

First of all, you learn aikido because you don't want to actually fight.

Also, by being in the military, I think your friends proved they (would) in fact like to fight, thus the choices they made. And last, I can point you to quite a few examples of "efficient" aikido..

[Commendor1337]

The cool thing about this is that not many parts turn red. Thus "highlighting" the slowness.

[arielreynoso]

EXCELENTE !!!

[aikipablo100]

El nague es malo en sus movimientos de piernas. Pero el sistema visual, está bueno.

[TheMrShankadoodle]

Aikidoka* 

[ReiMonCoH]

Yes.. This is interesting. I don't really see how this idea could be expanded, but for what it is...cool

[Shindai]

This is awesome, would love to see more of this kind of thing for other martial arts as well as aikido

[shadowkid1993]

so if i master aikido i can get beat up all i want and never stay down ? =/

[ricdark]

@shadowkid1993 No, the ukemi is uke's defence against the effects of the technique being executed by nage. Without correct breakfalls the uke would be hurt or injured every time and practice would halt, we all have jobs to go to next morning and we'd rather not have broken or sprained joints to do them with

.

[KungFuKid1015]

Wow! Awsome scientific explaination! Notice on these videos, how everything is in circular and eliptical motion.  Thats the secret behind AIkido and the secret behind most other styles as well. Very beautiful!

[pimpdalyrical]

Scientific proof of what Aikidoka know already. Awesome.

[ABluishBaby]

@pimpdalyrical youre tellin me =]P

[TheRogueMonk]

@pimpdalyrical there are some bda form and mistake shere... because of the time the attacker has to move this is not the best... be more caring then this when doing thes etechniques.. this is great for seeing waht can be improved..

[Flavioxeneize]

All theory.

[dudehi8]

@Flavioxeneize you seem retarded because it was all proven right there, you know, in the video

[Flavioxeneize]

@dudehi8: Yeah, all proven in a video made with a computer. Reality is a different thing, little fag. So don´t talk about things you don´t know.

[dudehi8]

@Flavioxeneize Obviously it has been proven in reality if the martial art is growing, the philosophy is using momentum against your opponent like judo, it looks a little fake when you look at it practiced but you need to have experience being an uke to notice its all real, plus why would 82% of American Special Forces become black belts in Aikido if it didn't work, just something to think about

[TheMrShankadoodle]

@dudehi8 I wish more people saw it like you, many other Aikidoists and I saw it.

[zacktillery]

@dudehi8 Because the government does not know one thing about what works and doesn't. I have 4 close friends who are in the military, and all of them either do boxing, mixed with sprawls to avoid the ground, or do TONS of gracie jiu jitsu mixed with kickboxing. Sounds like people that ACTUALLY want to learn to fight DO NOT learn aikido.

[dudehi8]

@zacktillery I never said Aikido was the best martial art, it does have empty spots, you need some sort of boxing and ground work, but a boxer doesn't know what to do when a knife is about to stab you in the throat. I do think you need some sort of base with Aikido, that's why I Wrestle, do Judo, and kick box also. If you look at the MCMAP they use small joint manipulations from Aikido but also have stuff from other martial arts.

[zacktillery]

@dudehi8 Number one, when it comes to weapons, a gun beats them all. Secondly, small joint manipulation is only useful if the person is standing still, and that NEVER happens in a real fight. Not trying to be an asshole, but it's been proven to be pointless time and time again.

[dudehi8]

@zacktillery Japanese Jujitsu was used by samurais during battle, that proves right there that it has to work. The military wouldn't use it if it didn't work. And finally why would these martial arts be growing if they didn't  work. Nothing is ever 100% but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. Have you ever studied any Aikido, it doesn't work immediately but you need experience in it. And it would be nice to show me the proof your seeing time and time again.

[zacktillery]

@zacktillery You know why it was used during battle for samauris? Because they had less armor on than their opposition, thus making them go slow motion. If YOU had a suit of armor, and i didn't have any, i could do whatever the hell i wanted and beat you. I agree, nothing is 100%, but statistics are statistics. I'd rather use a martial art that starts working ALMOST IMMEDIATELY and continues to grow exponentially in use, versus something that is hard to learn, and almost never helps you.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery Have you ever had a joint twisted in one direction while you're moving in another? It hurts like hell! Small joint manipulation DOES work if a person is moving. I've seen it, experienced it, and have done it! It wasn't rehersed. It terms of the use of firearms, Gun disarms can work if the wielder is close, your body is clear of the barrel and you move quickly (without hesitation). Personally, I wouldn't try to do it unless I knew I had no choice. Far too risky!

[zacktillery]

@42Cleve You can try small joint manipulation, but you have to grab such a small area that it's not worth the risk of getting punched in the face, Not by a long shot. I know that if you DID get a hold of my finger of COURSE you could break it, but thats the thing, you won't. Not trying to be condescending. :) As for guns, i completely agree! Much too risky!

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery The technique was pulled off as a result of someone trying to punch me. They went for a ride with an unpleasent ending. Aikido uses angles, footwork, and timing. It isn't my primary art but, it's techniques are definitely worth having in one's arsenal for self defense, restraining, and or subduing an opponent as opposed to percussion (Blunt Force Trauma) techniques. Sometimes, it's a better course of action to restrain than it is to beat em' senseless.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery We have no reason to fight so, I doubt we'd ever have to find that out. Not trying to be condescending.:)

[zacktillery]

@42Cleve Well of course i'd have to be the typical MMA person. :-/ haha but seriously, i love everything about fighting, even the stuff that doesn't work. I'd say it's good to have in your arsenal, but it just isn't worth trying over other stuff, such as throws etc.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery It is a very different art when you compare it to an art like Karate, Tae Kwon Do, or Muay Thai. It doesn't focus on striking but, what it does teach you is evasion and redirection of strikes , kicks, and pushes. I have been thrown by aikido practitioners and I'll tell you, if I wasn't used to break falls, it would have messed me up. You know as a MMA guy that, getting thrown really takes it out of you.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery A good throw (alone) can end a fight. Especially if you aren't ready for it.

[zacktillery]

@42Cleve It might have good qualities, but they must take a supernatural amount of time to obtain them. I've seen 6th dans (is that what you call them?) Get messed up by ameature MMA fighters pretty easily. I've seen judo guys DESTROY them like it's nothing. To me, it seems like aikido is just a forgotten, less important version of judo.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery I won't disagree with your statements about rank but, I don't believe that MMA competition is the last word in determining a martial art's effectiveness. Success in the octagon doesn't mean that it'll work on the street. I've seen self absorbed loudmouths that bragged about their ring prowess getting schooled in real fights. BTW, you know that Judo is considered a sport. I will say again that I've used techniques from both in real situations and they BOTH work.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery Not to sound arrogant (that's not my intent) but, my experience with using techniques from the art of Aikido in real situations, trumps the theories of someone else that hasn't trained in it.

[zacktillery]

@42Cleve I did for 3 classes. They were all about finding your balance, and the aikidoka showed us a simple wrist lock from being choked. Take that versus 3 classes of MMA, and you've got yourself a beaten aikido student. All i'm saying, is that i watch aikido classes EVERY DAY before i go to my MMA class, and it looks like dancing, with a little wrist things in it.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery No offense but, 3 classes isn't really enough to evaluate the art fairly. As far as MMA goes, it just doesn't address how to deal with weapons or multiple attackers. Aikido does both. To answer an earlier comment you made, most systems take time to become 2nd nature so, the comment about supernatural amounts of time made no sense. All skills take repetition. Repetition is the mother of all skills.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery I primarily train in the Korean & Filipino arts but, have also had training in Judo , Jujitsu & Aikido. The difference between Judo & Jujitsu is that in Judo, you break the balance (prior to throwing) In jujitsu, you break the joint (as well as the balance) prior to throwing. Aikido focuses or redirecting the attacker's force against them, resulting in a throw. If they resist this redirection, it usually results in dislocation, hyperextention or breakage of said joint.

[zacktillery]

@42Cleve Sounds impressive in a resume, but i'd take someone who has 4 years of judo over someone who has 4 years in aikido. I've seen people that "try" to deal with multiple attackers. If the people aren't acting special education, i could see the aikido guy getting hurt FAIRLY easily by trying this stuff on the street. I'd say a knife is more practical than trying fancy wrist/joint locks. They might work if you got SUPER lock on the street, but i'd still stick with fast strikes, and movement.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery I've had to put that "resume" to work and It worked just fine. Unless you've trained in either for 4 years, you really can't say one way or the other. The fact that Aikido isn't an aggressive system is why it is often underestimated in terms of it's effectiveness in self defense situations. Once an attacker commits, the aikido practitioner usually evades the attack causing them to overextend. This is when a joint manipulation is used to further unbalance and throw them.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery The short time you "practiced" aikido, they were showing you about your balance. That is a vital element in ALL martial arts! If your balance is off, your technique will be less than effective. It doesn't matter if you're a striker or grappler. The grappling arts (Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido, Hapkido, Chin na, etc) all focus on unbalancing an opponent. Before you call something ineffective, put some time into it so you won't sound like you don't know what you're talking about

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery Lastly, dealing with multiple attackers is tricky because people want to deal with each attack as opposed to staying in motion to keep them off balance. Practitioners of ANY system can get hurt if they mess up in that situation. As far as the use of a knife, DON'T unless you know what you're doing. A wrist lock is easier to explain as far as the law is concerned. Do whatever floats your boat but, don't knock something you don't understand! Good luck to you!

[zacktillery]

@42Cleve I will never believe in "dealing" with multiple attackers. It's impossible. You can take a 2093843204 degree black belt, and when he gets hit in the back of the head by a bat, or shot by a gun, he dies like the rest of us. I carry a firearm for this exact reason. As for the judo vs aikido thing, i have a video i'm sure you'd like to see. /watch?v=AssByvGVx6s&list=FL9N­-Dt5Zg4bMPx7osk9yX8w&index=12&­feature=plpp_video

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery What you said is exactly why I don't believe that MMA competition is the last word in what works in a real situation. I have used it and it works. I have an open mind about things but, I also realize that your training focus defines how effective something will be. If you compete, the rules of that competition will state what can an cannot be used. Arts like aikido were never designed for competition. They are suited for self defense and law enforcement.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery On the subject of firearms, weapons retention is very important. Having been a military policeman in the Air Force, I have not forgotten how to use them and am thinking about buying one in the near future.We were taught the importance of maintaining control of our weapon because many police officers are killed in the line of duty with their own weapon. Aikido/jujitsu principles work in the retention of the weapon.

[42Cleve]

@zacktillery Lastly on the subject of multiple attackers, It isn't impossible to deal with that situation. If you take the BJJ approach and take it to the ground, you're going to get hurt or worse. You need to be mobile. On the subject of being injured or killed, it doesn't matter if you're armed or unarmed. You're eventually going to get hit. If you train on dealing with one opponent at a time, I will agree with you. I train with the mindset that there's more than one attacker.

[ced81]

@zacktillery That aikido dan is a dumb one. Don't think for a minute that getting a black belt in any martial art gives you the supreme power and knowledge about it. Getting the black belt only allows you to start seeing what that martial art is really about... If you want to get better, keep training. Ego and competition is what makes you lose the fight when you try to show how good your aikido is. Read a few books of the best Aikido senseis and you'll realize what I'm talking about.

[ced81]

@zacktillery another thing: having a gun doesn't make you invincible against a bat either if you're sloppy enough ;) just saying :P

[XxKamaelxX]

i,ve had 2 aikido lessons, and i know 1 of the actions that is used here :O super glad hahahah

[mortimus665]

Is there any way to get that kind of material in full version? It's perfect for studies..now i know my mistake in shomenuchi iriminage, the final position of my legs...

Please give us more!

[hardrain08]

wow

[lettererere]

Aikidokaaaa not Aikidoist, But the video is really good ;)

[agwblack]

All these videos are fascinating - MORE!!!

[looker768]

I love this demonstration of aikido theory.