Blaziken can be beaten. Trick Room teams make Blaziken's Speed Boost Ability more of a liability instead of a benefit. Trick Room teams are the perfect counter to Blaziken. And on top of that, since Slowbro is a good counter to Blaziken and is slow, its a great pokemon to set-up trick room and then outspeed Blaziken and OHKO with a STAB Surf or Psychic. Also, a physically defensive Reuniclus will outspeed Blaziken under Trick Room conditions and OHKO will STAB Psychic Attacks.
I just realised how high both attack states of Blaziken is. Along the ability to use Hi Jump Kick which is now 130 base and Fire Blast (120) this thing is just overpowered. Now it has even higher speed with which it can easiely played mixed without being worried about the creppy defences. Wish I had one :(
You kind of answered your own question right there, it's TOO "epic". The damn thing can 2HKO Giratina (the overall bulkiest Pokémon in the game, mind you) with NVE Flare Blitz after a Swords Dance and sun support, do you really want to unleash that monster in OU?
@Slowflake Wait... Whats "OU"? & besides I never use Swords Dance, Sunny Day, ect. I only use attack moves like Sky Uppercut, Overheat, Blaze Kick, & 1 other... OH yeah Earthquake. Thats what I got on him now & thats on sapphire too. I just think that any pokemon can be good or bad. Like what if: Blaziken had Bulkup, Overheat, Growl, & Scratch. Then how dangeres can he be then? I mean Overheat would be his best move but will take down his SP. Attack too. Why not check all possiblitys then ban?
Well you're the one who's not looking at all the possibilities. Swords Dance and Ninetales support will do far more good than type coverage moves that will end up weaker than Flare Blitz and Hi Jump Kick in nearly all cases anyway.
I only saw Giratina and Flash Fire Chandelure as a counter. I've seen a lot more people I fought that used blaziken used shadow claw over Hi Jump Kick since so many psychics and ghosts are common.
They should bring blaziken back to OU where it belongs. Blaziken is strong but not broken. And blaziken without swords dance boost is not going to take out a team. It hits hard but pokemon like haxorus hit harder and it has access to dragon dance too.
Difference is that Haxorus needs to use up a turn to boost its speed, while Blaziken can just have a field day with Protect. And Blaziken's attack rises faster than Haxorus when setting up, so Haxorus hitting harder is a lie. At any rate, if attack power was all there was, Haxorus would've been used more than Hydreigon, Dragonite or pre-ban Garchomp. Guess what? It wasn't.
I agree with PokemonWaterWarrior. Poisen heal gliscor is definitely used much more than either Latios and Deoxys-E. Why aren't we seeing a suspect test or voting on Gliscor, but still I feel that poisen heal gliscor with a small bit of smart playing is overpowered
Blaziken is a sensitive topic. I believe that blaziken can be handled by some fairly common threats. Such as Regenerator Slowbro, Azumarill, and Poisen heal Gliscor.
Switching into ghosts on Hi-Jump Kick results in self KO's as well.
@DaGreenBeret1 Gliscor's not broken at all. It's a Physical Wall and dies to common Hp ice, icebeams, and even MixNape's Fire Blasts since it's pretty terrible specially. Blaziken wasn't really as broken as Smogon made it seem but I think they really banned it to keep Drought OU. At the time weather was ridiculous and they did all they could to keep it OU.
This is coming from someone who doesn't play the metagame much, but couldn't Smogon just separately categorize Pokemon with Dream World abilities and and same Pokemon without dream world abilities? For example, couldn't they categorize Blazikin with it's Dream World Ability in ubers and Blazikin without it's Dream World ability in OU? Like create a separate league for Pokemon with Dream World abilities.
Why do that? Only a handful of Pokémon have DW abilities that can potentially break the game, and Blaziken is the only one that has access to its own right now and for the foreseeable future. Most Pokémon have either DW abilities that suck, or provide a great improvement and incentive to use the Pokémon (Gliscor much?)
@Slowflake Ahh, thanks for that. Me and my friend were having this debate about the Blazikin ban. He thinks Smogon is being stubborn, that they have to make big changes because of the Dream world and they should categorize DW Pokemon differently then normal Pokemon. Me being no expert, wanted to get feedback from someone who understands the metagame better then I do.
And I love Dialga, but you don't see me bitching and moaning because I can't use it. It's called the uber metagame, it's there for a reason. But hey, if you don't mind seeing your average battle length drop to three turns as everyone DCs out of disgust for you using a broken Pokémon, be my guest.
Sorry, that's impossible. All Speed Boost Blazikens that currently exist are male, and only females can pass down DW abilities. Which is sort of a blessing at the same time: it also prevents Speed Boost Blaziken from having Baton Pass, and I promise there would be no debate whatsoever if it had it.
Dude, no. Just, no. Excadrill has a few weaknesses that are perfectly exploitable by any competent team, you don't have to go out of your way to beat it.
@Slowflake what i mean is, if blaziken is uber excadrill is more, because blaziken is easier to KO. the speed boost wil let it be the first in 2 turns, excadrill is the first since the first moment (when sandstorm which is so easy to put). Hi jump kick??? using protect blaziken will lose half hp, just one more hit and KO, you can change into a ghost, but excadrill is more dangerous, if it sword dance you lost, its over, its easier to kill a garchomp, slamence, blaziken.
@IvanMitosis in conclusion: dude yes, just yes blaziken has a LOT of weaknesses that are perfectly exploitable by any competent team, you don't have to go out of your way to beat it.
Protect's not viable, because you need to switch into its user first, THEN activate it, and you'll take a lot for damage doing so. Ghosts only check sets without Shadow Claw, if it does have Shadow Claw you're basically screwed. You DO have to go out of your way to beat Blaziken, since you either need to pack an all-purpose counter that's good for nothing else, or have two or three checks for each specific set, and something that's able to scout the damn thing to begin with.
Excadrill? It gets raped by priority, it gets raped by flying/levitating Steel-types, it gets pulverized by Gliscor, Hippowdon does great against it, pretty much anything that packs a Balloon such as Heatran will give it loads of trouble.
Besides, what kind of absolute moron would ever use Blaziken's HJK if they saw a Ghost-type on the team preview? If the player's any smart, they'll use Flare Blitz, Shadow Claw or Swords Dance, or even switch to the Ghost's counter right away, because he'll know the Ghost is coming. It's like using Choiced Fighting moves in the DW metagame when you know your opponent has a Chandelure, YOU DON'T DO THAT. EVER. Blaziken isn't that threatening in incompetent hands, but so's everything else.
I don't care what smogon says. They think they rule battles! We should follow battle tower, battle frontier and battle subway (Where only those special pokemon are banned)
The soul dew was a banned item when Lati@s wasn't uber, why can't they just ban SB Blaziken. Especially since SB Blaziken is hard to come by if you're playing the game legitally. The only SB Blaziken released has been male so you can't breed for a good one. If you want a good one you have to soft reset for it, and that's if you had access to a Japanese game at the time of release. The number of non-SB Blazikens is much greater than the SB Blazikens, it makes no sense to ban all of the them.
If you play Pokémon Online, which is what all the serious battlers do, there are no Blaze Blazikens whatsoever, except if you're a total dumbass or you're desperate for Baton Pass for some reason. Besides, banning the Soul Dew is banning an item, banning Speed Boost Blaziken would be banning a COMBINATION of a Pokémon and an ability, which Smogon said eons ago they would NEVER do.
@Slowflake Surely they can make an exception in this case, it makes no sense to ban an otherwise UU pokemon because of it's hidden ability. People aren't so retarded they can't understand they can only use Blaziken with a certain ability. In any case, it doesn't matter what Smogon say on the subject because if people wanna use Blaze Blazikens in UU then Smogon can't really stop them. Unless they're playing on Smogon's shoddy ladder.
Well, I think it makes absolutely perfect sense, considering Blaziken is FAR from being the only Pokémon where just taking away one thing would make it not broken. And the last thing I want is for the rulebook to be littered with crap like "oh, you can use this Pokémon, only not with this particular move or ability". If they do it for Blaziken, they'll HAVE to do it with the likes of Ho-Oh, Shaymin-S, Darkrai and even Latios when it inevitably gets banned.
But it's not taking away something from a Pokémon as a species. You can still use SwSw Kingdra all you want, just not with Politoed. That ban was applied to maintain diversity in the metagame, since without it rain offense is horrifyingly overpowered: Swift Swimmers get double speed AND a 50% boost on their Water move, something no other weather abuser can claim. As a resuly, rain offense remains viable without being broken by being brought back down to the same level as other team archetypses.
@Slowflake i personally feel that smogon did right putting blaziken on the uber list. however i feel that if he do get back to being ou, for starters they would have to ban the speed boost and swords dance combo. meaning if you have blaziken with speed boost he cant have swords dance and vise versa. i feel that they should of done it that way instead of completely banning him.
And then they'd have to allow Latios without Draco Meteor, Shaymin-S without Seed Flare, Darkrai without Dark Void, Ho-Oh without Sacred Fire, and so on. Do you still think that's a good idea? Of course not, the rulebook would be so ridiculously complicated it'd be impossible to keep up with. Heck, it's hard enough as it is, with the banlist changing every month.
I can tell you that even though with all Blazikens being Male only, there is C-Gear abuse that allows RNG abuse for Entralink Pokemon, it's harder than non-C-Gear obivously, but doable. We are definitely going to get it though, sooner or later, I mean, we are going to get the Eeveelutions events soon, so there is no reason to implement these somehow in promotions. Unless you are one of the people who thinks that Pokemon "should not be played this way".
@Supersonic415 In game has nothing to do with competetive battling. Most of the time wifi teams can completely destroy ingame, but there are always exceptions like stealth rock/ spikes/ toxic spikes since ingame not may opponents switch out very often. This is a diffrent case SB blaziken would obliterate anything the game throughs at you. Advice never use ingame teams for competetive battling you will die.
You hacked one, rather. And Defeatist everything sucks, only Truant, Stall and Slow Start are worse. Normalize kinda sucks too, but Defeatist means you're pretty much dead meat if you go below half health.
That's Moxie, not Defeatist. Defeatist halves both of your attack stats when you're below half health, that's Archeops' ability. Besides, Moxie's a huge flop competitively.
I understand Speed Boost Blaziken being banned , but banning all Blazikens is kinda retarded. The only reason it's considered Uber is because of SB , so why is Blaze Blaziken banned ? Same thing with Shandera . When Shadow Tag Shandera gets released its going to get banned , meaning Flash Fire Shandera is also banned and we don't get to use a really good Fire poke that isn't Heatran.
And yes, what EmtyThe1st said. When Latios inevitably gets banned, if you don't make a fuss over how it should be allowed without Draco Meteor, I call double standards.
They're completely different. Latios is Uber because of it's stats/movepool and its ability to use those stats effectively with moves like Draco Meteor. Blaziken doesn't have the stats , all its got going for it is it's ability.
Yeah , no difference between SB Blaziken and Latios . I'm not arguing against that . All I'm saying is why should Blaze Blaziken ( or any other pokemon with an equally broken dream world ability like Shandera w/ Shadow tag ) be banned from standard ? Why not just the SB version ? I'm sure if people see a normal Blaziken in a match they won't have a fit and go ' OH THATS UBER ' , because it clearly isn't.
At that point it's just a fruitless ethics argument, just like what happened with the combo ban. Smogon wants to keep the rulebook clear and simple to make it easy for anyone to get into, with as little ifs and buts as possible. With the notable exception of the aforementioned combo ban, which fell into Smogon's attempt at creating as much diversity as possible. Nonetheless, I see where you're going, and it's a valid point of view. It simply doesn't fit with Smogon's goals as a whole. [cont'd]
[cont'd] As long as you're not going all crazy and endorsing 4chan's proto-banlist, I have nothing against your point of view. But I'm not one of Smogon's higher-ups, so I'm not the one you should complain to. One very explicit rule that was set right off the bat in this suspect test was that if a Pokémon was banned, all variants would be as well no matter what, and everyone who partook in it was aware of that. No exceptions.
Standard issue physical sweeper with Stone Edge or Rock Slide, there's your Ho-Oh counter.
...why haven't I heard a single soul complain about Ho-Oh, or any low-end legendary uber for that matter? Oh, right, because they're legendaries. Carry on.
See, that's the problem with this lousy comment setup YouTube has. I get dozens of comments saying the exact same thing, but because of the setup it's hard to see the previous ones unless you go a few pages back (which, from my experience, no one ever does), and I can hardly copypaste the same answer every time, because that's spamming.
@Slowflake sorry i honestly didnt see it but this goes the same with any aqua jetter and priority moves not called bullet punch. with a very big priority based metagame, i still dont understand how this could really sweep on the top player charts. but i do see its sheer power and the immediate threat it causes, but it seems like this would work as a late game sweeper only. i mean blaziken isnt very hard to kill considering its lackluster defenses
True, but the problem is actually laying a finger on the thing, as is the case for most HO Pokémon. Historically, Pokémon with weaker defenses but high power and speed have been more dangerous and banned more often than bulkier, slower Pokémon. The current iteration of Reuniclus is probably the single best Pokémon in the latter category in history that didn't have the BST to be outright banned.
@Slowflake Yea that is true and reuniclus shouldn't be banned, it isn't THAT hard to take down and its one of the only stallbreakers that can make your opponents stall team fall flat on its face. any phazer can phaze it out b4 it sets up, the only problem is making sure its not on your opponents team and scouting it properly. the trick room set is a little dangerous though...
It probably won't ever be banned, it's just a really tough cookie to crack. Remember that everyone can nominate, but only the best of the best can actually vote. The fact that Reuniclus and Excadrill keep coming back, only to get shot down, reflect reality: lower-ranked players can get torn apart by it, but it's not that much of a problem to those with actual know-how.
I tend to use Pokemon that not many people expect,so I know that my team is less than convincing in terms of countering Blaziken (I by no means object to its ban). Quagsire seems to be a good counter with Unaware,which negates Swords Dance. At least,it made Blaizken a hell of a lot troublesome for me.
Again,I do not object to Blaziken's ban,nor do I say that my team is better than any other.
One of my regulars told me some GameFAQs nubs actually suggested FOCUS SASH ALAKAZAM as a counter. Not kidding. Have those idiots ever heard of entry hazards?
Oh, and besides, Reuniclus is a Psychic-type with Magic Guard, and the speed difference between it and Alakazam doesn't really matter, because unless it's called Deoxys-E you always have to assume Blaziken will be faster.
LOL @ reuniclus, excadrill, and thundurus even being considered, also, im not too upset with blaziken being banned because i never used one, this just makes the game easier for me. Also, where did you get the voting charts? id like to keep up on those, great vid and explanation :)
I made them in an Excel clone out of the voting results, which you can find at Smogon's Blind Voting subforum, which is found in the Policy Review section.
Depends, can it survive a +2 HJK? I personally find Slowbro to be the best all-purpose Blaziken check. The main problem with Blaziken is just that - it requires overspecialized counters that probably wouldn't get used otherwise, making the game revolve around one Pokémon and its few counters. Smogon's goal is to promote diversity in the metagame, and Blaziken being gone will certainly accomplish that to an extent. That was the reason for the combo ban, instead of banning Drizzle entirely.
@Slowflake Yup but if you dont survive that would be your fault for letting blaziken set up the swords. Once you see him and you do have an azumarill, you would send him out immediately
But SD-less variants of Blaziken have no choice but to attack, and if you get outpredicted you're screwed. That's the problem if you try countering a Pokémon: you have to either know what it's running, or be able to contain every set to an extent. Why do you think sending Gliscor after Lucario wasn't such an automatic choice when Lucario gained Ice Punch?
@Slowflake That doesn't necesarrily mean you have to switch him in right away, you could send in a ghost type like chandera which is a great counter to blaziken unless he has stone edge
That's another Pokémon that can only trump certain sets - specifically one, the one without Swords Dance. And you just don't throw away a Pokémon like that just to scout it. If you have only one Pokémon that can beat Blaziken, and it's weak to a few sets, you WILL get your ass handed to you every time you come across one of them. Having to pack multiple "counters" (or Slowbro, which is the more sensible option) is pretty much the textbook definition of broken. Garchomp 2008 says hi.
It's a shame Blaze Blaziken couldn't still be used in OU, simply because it's already pretty hard to find a good fire type to put on a team that isn't destroyed by SR. I feel like banning a specific DW ability on a guy is a lot different from banning individual moves, but I can see how others might see it differently.
well that's the point. There are only 2 other fire types that don't get wrecked by stealth rock so it would have been nice to see a 3rd one in the fray simply because it gives you more flexibility in planning a team.
Emboar? Camerupt? Nah, those things are jokes. Still, Infernape and Heatran were the only two OU Fire-types last gen, and they filled radically opposite niches. Now, though... Ninetales and Volcarona are definitely joining the fray, and I don't want to pronounce Darmanitan and Chandelure dead too soon. For hazards... you could always use a spinner, or even better and fancier, Espeon or Xatu to bounce them off.
I thought this has a joke when i heard it like a week ago. Wow I'm not mad at all just more or less in shock who would have guessed. Megachicken has been born.
shandera is a awesome counter. it can take the fire blast/ flare blitz with flash fire and hi jump kick can take out half of blaziken's health. and some of them carry stone edge but some do carry the HP grass or ice. plas shanderaa gets psychic to k.o. if the opponent has taken the the hi jump kick damage, from the switch in to shanderra so that is a awesome counter if the opponent does carry the mixed blaziken. and if it carries the swords dance it is defenseless.
But first you need to know what set Blaziken's running, or risk losing Chandelure right then and there. And scouting Blaziken is a very dangerous task in and of itself.
@Slowflake well thats why balizken is a late game sweeper. and so could shanderaa. so really its hard to decide since its a late game situation. but if properly baited a blaziken can be take down easy
The level advantage certainly helped, but then you have to realize that this Blaziken sucked. No Flare Blitz, no Protect, no Swords Dance, no Shadow Claw, no Stone Edge?
He is powerful, but a defensively-capable pokemon can take his hits and counter with most neutral or Super Effective move. That poor defense means he can't take much of anything that isn't Not Very Effective.
I mean, my Banded Excadrill can only 3HKO my friends (presumably 252Hp/252Def) Cofagrigus with Shadow Claw. Just as a quick example.
I understand much more, but I still say Blaziken is NOT uber.
Hippowdon, 252HP/252Def, is 4HKOd by Flare Blitz, meaning you get an easy-switch and an easy EQ kill. Gliscor is much of the same as I calculate. Hell, Swampert isn't even 2HKO'd by Hi Jump Kick! Some threat!
Swords Dance, you say? Any pokemon can dish out damage after a SD, thus the point of SD.
Any Pokémon can dish out damage after a Swords Dance, but not any Pokémon can do so while outspeeding the entire metagame, and/or having a move powered up by weather.
@Slowflake : Wealive learns SD, he outspeed metagame. Sceptile can learn SD and outspeeds most metagame. Hell, even Ninjask can learn it and easily has enough speed to run two laps around metagame!
Weather? Really? You're bring that up when Sandstorm is everywhere? Ninetails couldn't even stand against Hippowdon NOR Tyranitar. He'll come it just to die quickly, not being able to stand against either unless it was late game and they were dead.
But here's the problem. Several other Pokémon would be balanced if you took away just one thing. And double standards like this have no business being in a major website's driving policies, as would making the rulebook obscenely hard to follow. It's already hard enough to keep track of in the middle of a suspect test.
Besides, taking away HJK would probably make Blaziken balanced as well, but still very usable, whereas removing Speed Boost would castrate it.
hey slow, on that graph, you had reuniclus on there. i still dont understand why at all. i mean, i guess a scarf WOULD help it immensely, but it is, in reality, no threat to me at all. could you explain please?
Then I guess you understand why it's been shot down three times now. It's a top 10 Pokémon, no doubt about that. Between the potential for Trick Room and Calm Mind sets, instant recovery and Magic Guard, it's tough to beat. But you CAN prepare for it without using overspecialized counters.
Considering I was trying to explain rather than convince, thanks. If you're not convinced of Blaziken being ban-worthy, you and others that aren't can always try and nominate it as a suspect again. It probably won't work, as Deoxys-RS found out the hard way, but maybe something will come out of it if it happens.
@Slowflake Not a problem. I just hope more people see this and can at least come to -understand- why it happened rather than idling around and complaining about it. Arguing on the internet gets you nowhere. Researching and being able to back things up and get support will. I've been posting this elsewhere to at least educate people on why it happened, whether or not they support the ban, so I certainly hope the mass fury I've seen over it dies down.
Not that it really matters, one-on-one match-ups aren't a reference as far as tiering goes. Else everything with an Ice move would be uber for killing Rayquaza and Shaymin-S in one hit, and everything with Stone Edge or Rock Slide would be uber for murdering Ho-Oh.
Sorry but Smogon is just really biased. I will always use Blaziken. Just don't use Legendaries and don't use Wobbufett cuz it really isn't as great as everyone says.
BULLSHIT, ive managed many blazikens, theyre not that annoying, inb4 hydro pump AND HI jump kick misses half the time and they loose a really good amount of health, bullshit i tell u
I'm still using him. Alakazam was UU is gen 4, Latias was banned like a year after Garchomp, which is bull because you can just slap a scarf on Latias and sweep but of course people don't consider a set with Latias with a scraf so whatever. Plus if drizzle wasn't banned Blaziken woudl've stayed in but whatever Smogon doesn't run how I play the game.
So was it a mix of Speed boost and Hi Jump Kick's boost in power getting it the boot, or was it Smogon's mindset of removing the whole Pokemon if an ability is broken?
Also, if I want to play with Blaziken in a tournament somewhere will it be banned from play, or is this only for Smogon-hosted tournaments? Not everyone follows Smogon tiers.
Smogon's ladders and tournaments. So if you don't mind getting raped by Blaziken and HO rain teams 90% of the time, there's everywhere else. However, many people use Smogon's rules even on places like Wi-Fi, so I guess it depends. Personally I feel Smogon's tiers are better, for the simple reason that every other tier list out there is based on theorymon rather than actual battling experience.
As for your first question, they aren't mutually exclusive, both statements are accurate.
Smogon's policy. Besides, have you ever seen a competitive game where the community nerfed broken elements as opposed to banning them? If you ask Smogon to give Speed Boost or HJK the boost, then why doesn't Smashboards enforce handicaps for Snake and Meta-Knight players?
Also, Slowflake thanks so much for helping me understand the Blaziken ban. Fuck everyone who makes fun of your voice, because they need to grow up, and realize that eventually, you stop judging pople by what they look or sound like, and start judging them by their character(I feel like a Disney movie lol). I think you are an amazing Youtuber, and I believe that you deserve partnership.
Yep, blaziken was broken on Smogon's server. The fact that rain was gone just pushed it over the edge over there. I don't think they're banhappy though.
But, they love their stall, and they love gen 4. I firmly believe their tiering at Smogon to make it just like gen 4, where Sandstorm is the dominant weather and stall rains supreme. and speaking of the latter part of that sentence, stall just got so much stronger...
And I lol'd way back when people complained about the Chomp ban.
Rain wasn't really gone, just balanced compared to the other weathers. As much as I dislike the combo ban for ethical reasons, I can understand that it was enforced to avoid banning Drizzle entirely, ergo, AVOID having gen 4 Mk II. Likewise, banning Blaziken prevented them from having to ban Drought. So I really don't understand why you'd say they keep trying to make Sandstorm the best weather. It's an undeniable fact that rain always was the best weather in equal conditions... [cont'd]
...and that prior to Sand Rush and Sand Force existing, sun was second. So the presence of the combo ban and Blaziken getting the axe reflect a new reality: an attempt to make each weather condition (or lack thereof) reasonably equal, so that neither would break everything.
@Slowflake That implies rain was actually broken. Smogon didn't even try rain with Manaphy being banned. But whatever, I really don't feel like arguing back and forth on Youtube.
If they took away Manaphy before applying the combo ban, it wouldn't have changed much, Kabutops, Kingdra and Ludicolo would've kept rampaging all the same.
@Slowflake ha! I just use espeon to kill everything. My ultimate team is: Nidoking, espeon, umbreon, lapras, dragonite, and blaziken*sob*. Not perfect but they are fairly good and are my favorites
@Slowflake I know, I didn't say it was a threat. But a shuckle with leftovers might even sneak out a kill if the opponent is using a defensive pokemon. It can force out miracle berries, and those who switch to an offensive pokemon to kill it end up with their team crippled for when you send out your real team.
That's true. It's not the best, but it's certainly irritating when you're facing one that's played right. But what I really love using against defensive Pokémon, especially support ones, is Espeon. It doesn't have the stats, but it's so much more stylish.
I don't recall saying all GameFAQers were n00bs, but the concentration of people who think Shaymin-S is a wuss because it can easily be killed with an Ice move and Smogon were off their rocker for unanimously banning it is much higher than anywhere else.
Blaziken should have received Quick Feet; that would solve his speed issue as well, but wouldn't make him broken.
grrgrrgrr1000 1 week ago
Blaziken can be beaten. Trick Room teams make Blaziken's Speed Boost Ability more of a liability instead of a benefit. Trick Room teams are the perfect counter to Blaziken. And on top of that, since Slowbro is a good counter to Blaziken and is slow, its a great pokemon to set-up trick room and then outspeed Blaziken and OHKO with a STAB Surf or Psychic. Also, a physically defensive Reuniclus will outspeed Blaziken under Trick Room conditions and OHKO will STAB Psychic Attacks.
MultiMegaman8 3 weeks ago
By that logic, nothing would be uber since everything can be beaten. Way to miss the point completely.
Slowflake 3 weeks ago
I just realised how high both attack states of Blaziken is. Along the ability to use Hi Jump Kick which is now 130 base and Fire Blast (120) this thing is just overpowered. Now it has even higher speed with which it can easiely played mixed without being worried about the creppy defences. Wish I had one :(
M3rtyville 1 month ago
Blazaiken is epic! Why ban it?
SonicWolf1000 3 months ago
You kind of answered your own question right there, it's TOO "epic". The damn thing can 2HKO Giratina (the overall bulkiest Pokémon in the game, mind you) with NVE Flare Blitz after a Swords Dance and sun support, do you really want to unleash that monster in OU?
Slowflake 3 months ago
@Slowflake Wait... Whats "OU"? & besides I never use Swords Dance, Sunny Day, ect. I only use attack moves like Sky Uppercut, Overheat, Blaze Kick, & 1 other... OH yeah Earthquake. Thats what I got on him now & thats on sapphire too. I just think that any pokemon can be good or bad. Like what if: Blaziken had Bulkup, Overheat, Growl, & Scratch. Then how dangeres can he be then? I mean Overheat would be his best move but will take down his SP. Attack too. Why not check all possiblitys then ban?
SonicWolf1000 3 months ago
Well you're the one who's not looking at all the possibilities. Swords Dance and Ninetales support will do far more good than type coverage moves that will end up weaker than Flare Blitz and Hi Jump Kick in nearly all cases anyway.
Slowflake 3 months ago
I only saw Giratina and Flash Fire Chandelure as a counter. I've seen a lot more people I fought that used blaziken used shadow claw over Hi Jump Kick since so many psychics and ghosts are common.
KirioGameNote 4 months ago
WHAT THE FUCK I LOVE BLAZIKEN AND EVERY TIME I USED IT HE DIED AND NOW I HAVE A CHANCE TO KICK ASS AND HE BECOMES UBER AAAAHHHH FUCK MY LIFE
TheDarkassassin616 6 months ago
And Gliscor usage on PO reflects how many top used threats were used. Usage shows popularity, not effectiveness.
maphitha1 7 months ago
My only ubers team is going to be a sun team now
UltraDialgaX 7 months ago
They should bring blaziken back to OU where it belongs. Blaziken is strong but not broken. And blaziken without swords dance boost is not going to take out a team. It hits hard but pokemon like haxorus hit harder and it has access to dragon dance too.
Edgardo18h 8 months ago
Difference is that Haxorus needs to use up a turn to boost its speed, while Blaziken can just have a field day with Protect. And Blaziken's attack rises faster than Haxorus when setting up, so Haxorus hitting harder is a lie. At any rate, if attack power was all there was, Haxorus would've been used more than Hydreigon, Dragonite or pre-ban Garchomp. Guess what? It wasn't.
Slowflake 8 months ago
@Slowflake I know that i was just usimg haxorus as an example. I just hate that it was banned
Edgardo18h 8 months ago
@Edgardo18h XD blaziken is broken tell me how speed boost blaziken isnt broken lol
PKMNtrainerXtreme 2 months ago
I agree with PokemonWaterWarrior. Poisen heal gliscor is definitely used much more than either Latios and Deoxys-E. Why aren't we seeing a suspect test or voting on Gliscor, but still I feel that poisen heal gliscor with a small bit of smart playing is overpowered
Blaziken is a sensitive topic. I believe that blaziken can be handled by some fairly common threats. Such as Regenerator Slowbro, Azumarill, and Poisen heal Gliscor.
Switching into ghosts on Hi-Jump Kick results in self KO's as well.
DaGreenBeret1 8 months ago
@DaGreenBeret1 Gliscor's not broken at all. It's a Physical Wall and dies to common Hp ice, icebeams, and even MixNape's Fire Blasts since it's pretty terrible specially. Blaziken wasn't really as broken as Smogon made it seem but I think they really banned it to keep Drought OU. At the time weather was ridiculous and they did all they could to keep it OU.
maphitha1 7 months ago
Looks like Blaziken's attempt to regain the stolen fame from Infernape backfired. He shouldn't have trained so much.
TheDarkscythe1 8 months ago
This is coming from someone who doesn't play the metagame much, but couldn't Smogon just separately categorize Pokemon with Dream World abilities and and same Pokemon without dream world abilities? For example, couldn't they categorize Blazikin with it's Dream World Ability in ubers and Blazikin without it's Dream World ability in OU? Like create a separate league for Pokemon with Dream World abilities.
XxBroBuzzxX 8 months ago
Why do that? Only a handful of Pokémon have DW abilities that can potentially break the game, and Blaziken is the only one that has access to its own right now and for the foreseeable future. Most Pokémon have either DW abilities that suck, or provide a great improvement and incentive to use the Pokémon (Gliscor much?)
Slowflake 8 months ago
@Slowflake Ahh, thanks for that. Me and my friend were having this debate about the Blazikin ban. He thinks Smogon is being stubborn, that they have to make big changes because of the Dream world and they should categorize DW Pokemon differently then normal Pokemon. Me being no expert, wanted to get feedback from someone who understands the metagame better then I do.
.
XxBroBuzzxX 8 months ago
Well, it'd be stupid if we just decided that Gamefreak's biggest attempt to overhaul the metagame was just "no" caliber, would it?
Slowflake 8 months ago
Screw smogon
I love blaziken and I'll use it
player12345ification 9 months ago
And I love Dialga, but you don't see me bitching and moaning because I can't use it. It's called the uber metagame, it's there for a reason. But hey, if you don't mind seeing your average battle length drop to three turns as everyone DCs out of disgust for you using a broken Pokémon, be my guest.
Slowflake 9 months ago 3
what's with the excadrill picture?@Slowflake
Supersonic415 9 months ago
Also, Burungeru/Jellicent was a perfect and relatively common counter. Not tryin to be rude, just saying.
joshthelegodude 9 months ago
@joshthelegodude not if the blaziken had swords dance, shadow claw, flare blitz and hi jump kick
ARDVARK383 9 months ago
But then you lose Protect, which is pretty big. Swords Dance is usually more expendable, especially with the lack of Baton Pass.
Slowflake 9 months ago
You forgot to say the wynaut was banned in 4th gen as well.
joshthelegodude 9 months ago
I love how Latios and Deo-S are getting majorities for a ban, but Poison Heal Gliscor is used more often than both of them (possibly combined)...
PokemonWaterWarrior 9 months ago 4
Shaymin-S didn't see too much use prior to being banned back when Platinum came out, that didn't prevent it from being totally broken.
Slowflake 9 months ago
if anyone has a speed boost blaziken make an egg of it and ill trade u anything u want pleas message me!!
vidmastah001 9 months ago
Sorry, that's impossible. All Speed Boost Blazikens that currently exist are male, and only females can pass down DW abilities. Which is sort of a blessing at the same time: it also prevents Speed Boost Blaziken from having Baton Pass, and I promise there would be no debate whatsoever if it had it.
Slowflake 9 months ago
I see why it's uber but I think it sucks because it's my favorite pokemon. I guess it proves now that blaziken is better than infernape.
TheBattleProductions 10 months ago
excadrill is more uber than blaziken (and i excadrill sitll OU)
IvanMitosis 10 months ago
Dude, no. Just, no. Excadrill has a few weaknesses that are perfectly exploitable by any competent team, you don't have to go out of your way to beat it.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake what i mean is, if blaziken is uber excadrill is more, because blaziken is easier to KO. the speed boost wil let it be the first in 2 turns, excadrill is the first since the first moment (when sandstorm which is so easy to put). Hi jump kick??? using protect blaziken will lose half hp, just one more hit and KO, you can change into a ghost, but excadrill is more dangerous, if it sword dance you lost, its over, its easier to kill a garchomp, slamence, blaziken.
IvanMitosis 10 months ago
@IvanMitosis in conclusion: dude yes, just yes blaziken has a LOT of weaknesses that are perfectly exploitable by any competent team, you don't have to go out of your way to beat it.
IvanMitosis 10 months ago
Protect's not viable, because you need to switch into its user first, THEN activate it, and you'll take a lot for damage doing so. Ghosts only check sets without Shadow Claw, if it does have Shadow Claw you're basically screwed. You DO have to go out of your way to beat Blaziken, since you either need to pack an all-purpose counter that's good for nothing else, or have two or three checks for each specific set, and something that's able to scout the damn thing to begin with.
Slowflake 10 months ago
Excadrill? It gets raped by priority, it gets raped by flying/levitating Steel-types, it gets pulverized by Gliscor, Hippowdon does great against it, pretty much anything that packs a Balloon such as Heatran will give it loads of trouble.
Slowflake 10 months ago
Besides, what kind of absolute moron would ever use Blaziken's HJK if they saw a Ghost-type on the team preview? If the player's any smart, they'll use Flare Blitz, Shadow Claw or Swords Dance, or even switch to the Ghost's counter right away, because he'll know the Ghost is coming. It's like using Choiced Fighting moves in the DW metagame when you know your opponent has a Chandelure, YOU DON'T DO THAT. EVER. Blaziken isn't that threatening in incompetent hands, but so's everything else.
Slowflake 10 months ago
I don't care what smogon says. They think they rule battles! We should follow battle tower, battle frontier and battle subway (Where only those special pokemon are banned)
lepidno8 10 months ago
@lepidno8 we should blazeken with speed bost at every mach we can
dionjameswattsevans 10 months ago
Really well explaned but protect high jump kick protect is anther good way to explane it
wayne2893 10 months ago
The soul dew was a banned item when Lati@s wasn't uber, why can't they just ban SB Blaziken. Especially since SB Blaziken is hard to come by if you're playing the game legitally. The only SB Blaziken released has been male so you can't breed for a good one. If you want a good one you have to soft reset for it, and that's if you had access to a Japanese game at the time of release. The number of non-SB Blazikens is much greater than the SB Blazikens, it makes no sense to ban all of the them.
1quacka1 10 months ago
If you play Pokémon Online, which is what all the serious battlers do, there are no Blaze Blazikens whatsoever, except if you're a total dumbass or you're desperate for Baton Pass for some reason. Besides, banning the Soul Dew is banning an item, banning Speed Boost Blaziken would be banning a COMBINATION of a Pokémon and an ability, which Smogon said eons ago they would NEVER do.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake Surely they can make an exception in this case, it makes no sense to ban an otherwise UU pokemon because of it's hidden ability. People aren't so retarded they can't understand they can only use Blaziken with a certain ability. In any case, it doesn't matter what Smogon say on the subject because if people wanna use Blaze Blazikens in UU then Smogon can't really stop them. Unless they're playing on Smogon's shoddy ladder.
1quacka1 10 months ago
Well, I think it makes absolutely perfect sense, considering Blaziken is FAR from being the only Pokémon where just taking away one thing would make it not broken. And the last thing I want is for the rulebook to be littered with crap like "oh, you can use this Pokémon, only not with this particular move or ability". If they do it for Blaziken, they'll HAVE to do it with the likes of Ho-Oh, Shaymin-S, Darkrai and even Latios when it inevitably gets banned.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake Blaziken is also far from being the only Pokemon that's considered broken with one thing, hence the Swift Swim + Drizzle Ban.
MysticShadow73 10 months ago
But it's not taking away something from a Pokémon as a species. You can still use SwSw Kingdra all you want, just not with Politoed. That ban was applied to maintain diversity in the metagame, since without it rain offense is horrifyingly overpowered: Swift Swimmers get double speed AND a 50% boost on their Water move, something no other weather abuser can claim. As a resuly, rain offense remains viable without being broken by being brought back down to the same level as other team archetypses.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake i personally feel that smogon did right putting blaziken on the uber list. however i feel that if he do get back to being ou, for starters they would have to ban the speed boost and swords dance combo. meaning if you have blaziken with speed boost he cant have swords dance and vise versa. i feel that they should of done it that way instead of completely banning him.
MultiMeechy 10 months ago
And then they'd have to allow Latios without Draco Meteor, Shaymin-S without Seed Flare, Darkrai without Dark Void, Ho-Oh without Sacred Fire, and so on. Do you still think that's a good idea? Of course not, the rulebook would be so ridiculously complicated it'd be impossible to keep up with. Heck, it's hard enough as it is, with the banlist changing every month.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@1quacka1
I can tell you that even though with all Blazikens being Male only, there is C-Gear abuse that allows RNG abuse for Entralink Pokemon, it's harder than non-C-Gear obivously, but doable. We are definitely going to get it though, sooner or later, I mean, we are going to get the Eeveelutions events soon, so there is no reason to implement these somehow in promotions. Unless you are one of the people who thinks that Pokemon "should not be played this way".
Clear1 10 months ago
Fine that may be true but what ability would be good in game for pokemon white.
Supersonic415 10 months ago
@Supersonic415 In game has nothing to do with competetive battling. Most of the time wifi teams can completely destroy ingame, but there are always exceptions like stealth rock/ spikes/ toxic spikes since ingame not may opponents switch out very often. This is a diffrent case SB blaziken would obliterate anything the game throughs at you. Advice never use ingame teams for competetive battling you will die.
thgrabbagofallthings 10 months ago
Would a Defeatist Blaziken be good competitively at all, i have one and i'm just curious.@Slowflake
Supersonic415 10 months ago
You hacked one, rather. And Defeatist everything sucks, only Truant, Stall and Slow Start are worse. Normalize kinda sucks too, but Defeatist means you're pretty much dead meat if you go below half health.
Slowflake 10 months ago
Blaziken would be in league with the legendaries if he had defeatist, higher attack every kill, what a BEAST in gyms and vs with friends.
Supersonic415 10 months ago
That's Moxie, not Defeatist. Defeatist halves both of your attack stats when you're below half health, that's Archeops' ability. Besides, Moxie's a huge flop competitively.
Slowflake 10 months ago
I understand Speed Boost Blaziken being banned , but banning all Blazikens is kinda retarded. The only reason it's considered Uber is because of SB , so why is Blaze Blaziken banned ? Same thing with Shandera . When Shadow Tag Shandera gets released its going to get banned , meaning Flash Fire Shandera is also banned and we don't get to use a really good Fire poke that isn't Heatran.
khalid7377 10 months ago
@khalid7377 But making an exception for Blaziken would mean that people would be DEMANDING other exceptions for so many combo's.
EmtyThe1st 10 months ago
Or Infernape. Or Ninetales. Or Volcarona.
And yes, what EmtyThe1st said. When Latios inevitably gets banned, if you don't make a fuss over how it should be allowed without Draco Meteor, I call double standards.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake
They're completely different. Latios is Uber because of it's stats/movepool and its ability to use those stats effectively with moves like Draco Meteor. Blaziken doesn't have the stats , all its got going for it is it's ability.
khalid7377 10 months ago
And it has the perfect stat spread to use that ability to its fullest, and the right moves to mow down teams with it. No difference.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake
Yeah , no difference between SB Blaziken and Latios . I'm not arguing against that . All I'm saying is why should Blaze Blaziken ( or any other pokemon with an equally broken dream world ability like Shandera w/ Shadow tag ) be banned from standard ? Why not just the SB version ? I'm sure if people see a normal Blaziken in a match they won't have a fit and go ' OH THATS UBER ' , because it clearly isn't.
khalid7377 10 months ago
At that point it's just a fruitless ethics argument, just like what happened with the combo ban. Smogon wants to keep the rulebook clear and simple to make it easy for anyone to get into, with as little ifs and buts as possible. With the notable exception of the aforementioned combo ban, which fell into Smogon's attempt at creating as much diversity as possible. Nonetheless, I see where you're going, and it's a valid point of view. It simply doesn't fit with Smogon's goals as a whole. [cont'd]
Slowflake 10 months ago
[cont'd] As long as you're not going all crazy and endorsing 4chan's proto-banlist, I have nothing against your point of view. But I'm not one of Smogon's higher-ups, so I'm not the one you should complain to. One very explicit rule that was set right off the bat in this suspect test was that if a Pokémon was banned, all variants would be as well no matter what, and everyone who partook in it was aware of that. No exceptions.
Slowflake 10 months ago
Latias, Timid: Surf, Roar, Dragon Pulse, and Recover, there's your SB Blaziken counter.
HitmonFan481 10 months ago
Standard issue physical sweeper with Stone Edge or Rock Slide, there's your Ho-Oh counter.
...why haven't I heard a single soul complain about Ho-Oh, or any low-end legendary uber for that matter? Oh, right, because they're legendaries. Carry on.
Slowflake 10 months ago
WHAT MADMAN IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD CALL BLAZIKEN OVERPOWERED BECAUSE OF SPEED BOOST,FLAME BODY WOULD BE NICE.
Supersonic415 10 months ago
DUDE, IT COULD TOTALLY USE DEFEATIST!
Slowflake 10 months ago
Azumarill was an amazing counter to it, with aqua jet OHKOing it
TheDuelistTroll 10 months ago
See, that's the problem with this lousy comment setup YouTube has. I get dozens of comments saying the exact same thing, but because of the setup it's hard to see the previous ones unless you go a few pages back (which, from my experience, no one ever does), and I can hardly copypaste the same answer every time, because that's spamming.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake sorry i honestly didnt see it but this goes the same with any aqua jetter and priority moves not called bullet punch. with a very big priority based metagame, i still dont understand how this could really sweep on the top player charts. but i do see its sheer power and the immediate threat it causes, but it seems like this would work as a late game sweeper only. i mean blaziken isnt very hard to kill considering its lackluster defenses
TheDuelistTroll 10 months ago
True, but the problem is actually laying a finger on the thing, as is the case for most HO Pokémon. Historically, Pokémon with weaker defenses but high power and speed have been more dangerous and banned more often than bulkier, slower Pokémon. The current iteration of Reuniclus is probably the single best Pokémon in the latter category in history that didn't have the BST to be outright banned.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake Yea that is true and reuniclus shouldn't be banned, it isn't THAT hard to take down and its one of the only stallbreakers that can make your opponents stall team fall flat on its face. any phazer can phaze it out b4 it sets up, the only problem is making sure its not on your opponents team and scouting it properly. the trick room set is a little dangerous though...
TheDuelistTroll 10 months ago
It probably won't ever be banned, it's just a really tough cookie to crack. Remember that everyone can nominate, but only the best of the best can actually vote. The fact that Reuniclus and Excadrill keep coming back, only to get shot down, reflect reality: lower-ranked players can get torn apart by it, but it's not that much of a problem to those with actual know-how.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake Well you sir, have just earned yourself a new subscriber.
TheDuelistTroll 10 months ago
finally someone pronounced smogon right lol. smog-on which is why they have Koffing as their mascott thing.
KingTreonn 10 months ago
What a bunch of bullshit.
OniGlalie 10 months ago
I tend to use Pokemon that not many people expect,so I know that my team is less than convincing in terms of countering Blaziken (I by no means object to its ban). Quagsire seems to be a good counter with Unaware,which negates Swords Dance. At least,it made Blaizken a hell of a lot troublesome for me.
Again,I do not object to Blaziken's ban,nor do I say that my team is better than any other.
SaiyanRuler 10 months ago
I toatlly understand why it got baned if noobs don't like it boohoo
awsomekids1 10 months ago
One of my regulars told me some GameFAQs nubs actually suggested FOCUS SASH ALAKAZAM as a counter. Not kidding. Have those idiots ever heard of entry hazards?
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake doesn't Alakazam get magic guard this gen making it immune to rocks not trying to hate just asking or is it an unrealeased dw ability?
DaHazardd 10 months ago
It's unreleased. Which makes Alakazam as a solution to Blaziken irrelevant, since Blaziken isn't a ban-worthy threat in the DW metagame.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake ah i see now
DaHazardd 10 months ago
Oh, and besides, Reuniclus is a Psychic-type with Magic Guard, and the speed difference between it and Alakazam doesn't really matter, because unless it's called Deoxys-E you always have to assume Blaziken will be faster.
Slowflake 10 months ago
Speed Boost Blaziken Uber, thats it.
AlchemistVL 10 months ago
you sound a bit like the killer nacho
PrOdiiGyMajor 10 months ago
LOL @ reuniclus, excadrill, and thundurus even being considered, also, im not too upset with blaziken being banned because i never used one, this just makes the game easier for me. Also, where did you get the voting charts? id like to keep up on those, great vid and explanation :)
T0X1CSPIKES 10 months ago
I made them in an Excel clone out of the voting results, which you can find at Smogon's Blind Voting subforum, which is found in the Policy Review section.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake ty :D
T0X1CSPIKES 10 months ago
what about chioce banned aqua jet
blacksteve1992 10 months ago
@blacksteve1992 That is one counter to Blaziken. Bring a Choice Banded Azumaril with aqua jet and thats the end of Blaziken
Blaster097 10 months ago
Depends, can it survive a +2 HJK? I personally find Slowbro to be the best all-purpose Blaziken check. The main problem with Blaziken is just that - it requires overspecialized counters that probably wouldn't get used otherwise, making the game revolve around one Pokémon and its few counters. Smogon's goal is to promote diversity in the metagame, and Blaziken being gone will certainly accomplish that to an extent. That was the reason for the combo ban, instead of banning Drizzle entirely.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake Aqua Jet has priority. Or are you talking about a switch in?
Blaster097 10 months ago
Switch-in, of course.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake Yup but if you dont survive that would be your fault for letting blaziken set up the swords. Once you see him and you do have an azumarill, you would send him out immediately
Blaster097 10 months ago
But SD-less variants of Blaziken have no choice but to attack, and if you get outpredicted you're screwed. That's the problem if you try countering a Pokémon: you have to either know what it's running, or be able to contain every set to an extent. Why do you think sending Gliscor after Lucario wasn't such an automatic choice when Lucario gained Ice Punch?
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake That doesn't necesarrily mean you have to switch him in right away, you could send in a ghost type like chandera which is a great counter to blaziken unless he has stone edge
Blaster097 10 months ago
That's another Pokémon that can only trump certain sets - specifically one, the one without Swords Dance. And you just don't throw away a Pokémon like that just to scout it. If you have only one Pokémon that can beat Blaziken, and it's weak to a few sets, you WILL get your ass handed to you every time you come across one of them. Having to pack multiple "counters" (or Slowbro, which is the more sensible option) is pretty much the textbook definition of broken. Garchomp 2008 says hi.
Slowflake 10 months ago
It's a shame Blaze Blaziken couldn't still be used in OU, simply because it's already pretty hard to find a good fire type to put on a team that isn't destroyed by SR. I feel like banning a specific DW ability on a guy is a lot different from banning individual moves, but I can see how others might see it differently.
iamthetie 10 months ago
...Infernape? Heatran?
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake
well that's the point. There are only 2 other fire types that don't get wrecked by stealth rock so it would have been nice to see a 3rd one in the fray simply because it gives you more flexibility in planning a team.
iamthetie 10 months ago
Emboar? Camerupt? Nah, those things are jokes. Still, Infernape and Heatran were the only two OU Fire-types last gen, and they filled radically opposite niches. Now, though... Ninetales and Volcarona are definitely joining the fray, and I don't want to pronounce Darmanitan and Chandelure dead too soon. For hazards... you could always use a spinner, or even better and fancier, Espeon or Xatu to bounce them off.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake
Didn't even cross my mind till a second ago that once Shadow Tag Chandelure gets released we'll lose another viable fire type to Ubers as well. :(
iamthetie 10 months ago
I thought this has a joke when i heard it like a week ago. Wow I'm not mad at all just more or less in shock who would have guessed. Megachicken has been born.
MrDizzySpinda 10 months ago
shandera is a awesome counter. it can take the fire blast/ flare blitz with flash fire and hi jump kick can take out half of blaziken's health. and some of them carry stone edge but some do carry the HP grass or ice. plas shanderaa gets psychic to k.o. if the opponent has taken the the hi jump kick damage, from the switch in to shanderra so that is a awesome counter if the opponent does carry the mixed blaziken. and if it carries the swords dance it is defenseless.
xmaverickxninjax 10 months ago
But first you need to know what set Blaziken's running, or risk losing Chandelure right then and there. And scouting Blaziken is a very dangerous task in and of itself.
Slowflake 10 months ago
@Slowflake well thats why balizken is a late game sweeper. and so could shanderaa. so really its hard to decide since its a late game situation. but if properly baited a blaziken can be take down easy
xmaverickxninjax 10 months ago
im just happy that its smogon not gamefaqs/youtubers that create the tiers.
Honestly some of the reasons ive read why blaziken should not be uber are plain retarded -__-
but this video is very informative i think people will get alot from it
SilverX1079 10 months ago
Lucky i'm not a blaziken fan or i'd rebel.
solosoloblackdude 10 months ago
Man, I kinda watched your vids here and there, but I'm impressed you were able to explain a smart decision by smogon so well. Well done good sir
FreshPrinceOfBelMer 10 months ago
The level advantage certainly helped, but then you have to realize that this Blaziken sucked. No Flare Blitz, no Protect, no Swords Dance, no Shadow Claw, no Stone Edge?
Slowflake 11 months ago
I think exadrill needs to go as well
UmbreonFromTheShadow 11 months ago
@UmbreonFromTheShadow : Aw man, don't take Excadrill away! I love that guy!
He is powerful, but a defensively-capable pokemon can take his hits and counter with most neutral or Super Effective move. That poor defense means he can't take much of anything that isn't Not Very Effective.
I mean, my Banded Excadrill can only 3HKO my friends (presumably 252Hp/252Def) Cofagrigus with Shadow Claw. Just as a quick example.
luigifan73 11 months ago
I understand much more, but I still say Blaziken is NOT uber.
Hippowdon, 252HP/252Def, is 4HKOd by Flare Blitz, meaning you get an easy-switch and an easy EQ kill. Gliscor is much of the same as I calculate. Hell, Swampert isn't even 2HKO'd by Hi Jump Kick! Some threat!
Swords Dance, you say? Any pokemon can dish out damage after a SD, thus the point of SD.
Plus, HJK isn't the most reliable move ever.
All in all, I don't see Blaziken as a problem.
luigifan73 11 months ago
Any Pokémon can dish out damage after a Swords Dance, but not any Pokémon can do so while outspeeding the entire metagame, and/or having a move powered up by weather.
Slowflake 11 months ago
@Slowflake : Wealive learns SD, he outspeed metagame. Sceptile can learn SD and outspeeds most metagame. Hell, even Ninjask can learn it and easily has enough speed to run two laps around metagame!
Weather? Really? You're bring that up when Sandstorm is everywhere? Ninetails couldn't even stand against Hippowdon NOR Tyranitar. He'll come it just to die quickly, not being able to stand against either unless it was late game and they were dead.
I just don't see it the issue.
luigifan73 11 months ago
wat is deoxys emerald ?
222mike2jones222 11 months ago
Deoxys-E ?
222mike2jones222 11 months ago
@222mike2jones222
Deoxys - Emerald
XxKurenxX 11 months ago
Screw this, I am going to follow Fushigipedia's advice and use my team of 6 Mewtwo. :P
TheWayToTheDawnVIII 11 months ago
While I agree with the ban, I just wish they could just remove Speed boost from Blaziken, rather than just removing him entirely.
It's not like he's overpowered with Blaze or anything... it's just Speed boost that's overpowered.
ShadowWolf3998 11 months ago
But here's the problem. Several other Pokémon would be balanced if you took away just one thing. And double standards like this have no business being in a major website's driving policies, as would making the rulebook obscenely hard to follow. It's already hard enough to keep track of in the middle of a suspect test.
Besides, taking away HJK would probably make Blaziken balanced as well, but still very usable, whereas removing Speed Boost would castrate it.
Slowflake 11 months ago
blaziken is my favrote pokemon i had it at lv 60 and it arcicus
blazi19991 11 months ago
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
blazi19991 11 months ago
hey slow, on that graph, you had reuniclus on there. i still dont understand why at all. i mean, i guess a scarf WOULD help it immensely, but it is, in reality, no threat to me at all. could you explain please?
turtwigcatcher6 11 months ago
Then I guess you understand why it's been shot down three times now. It's a top 10 Pokémon, no doubt about that. Between the potential for Trick Room and Calm Mind sets, instant recovery and Magic Guard, it's tough to beat. But you CAN prepare for it without using overspecialized counters.
Slowflake 11 months ago
@Slowflake thank you. and now i see why the snot bubble is in OU.
turtwigcatcher6 11 months ago
While I still disagree with the decision, your video did in fact do its job of explaining why it happened.
Arkyron 11 months ago
Considering I was trying to explain rather than convince, thanks. If you're not convinced of Blaziken being ban-worthy, you and others that aren't can always try and nominate it as a suspect again. It probably won't work, as Deoxys-RS found out the hard way, but maybe something will come out of it if it happens.
Slowflake 11 months ago
@Slowflake Not a problem. I just hope more people see this and can at least come to -understand- why it happened rather than idling around and complaining about it. Arguing on the internet gets you nowhere. Researching and being able to back things up and get support will. I've been posting this elsewhere to at least educate people on why it happened, whether or not they support the ban, so I certainly hope the mass fury I've seen over it dies down.
Arkyron 11 months ago
Blaziken less Speed than Infernape but Brave Bird (Attack ith 120 power type Flying that Blaziken gets) would OHKO Infernape
The only attack Infernape gets that are super effects Blaziken is : Acrobats with 55 power and also a flying type)
EliteAMBU1 11 months ago
Not that it really matters, one-on-one match-ups aren't a reference as far as tiering goes. Else everything with an Ice move would be uber for killing Rayquaza and Shaymin-S in one hit, and everything with Stone Edge or Rock Slide would be uber for murdering Ho-Oh.
Slowflake 11 months ago
This was a pretty good video. I liked the musics & visual displays. You're voice is pretty funny hehe
PKRockin7 11 months ago
CATACLYSMIC PROPORTIONS
darkmoon873 11 months ago
Sorry but Smogon is just really biased. I will always use Blaziken. Just don't use Legendaries and don't use Wobbufett cuz it really isn't as great as everyone says.
Thank you. DarkpoolFantasy :)
By the way nice videos man.
DarkpoolFantasy 11 months ago
Yeah, it's not like there are any legendaries that are worse than hundreds of regular Pokémon... oh wait...
Slowflake 11 months ago
inb4 hydro pump, 2 hot ko surf, choice scarfed psychic, and crap ton of other stuff
azureabsol 11 months ago
BULLSHIT, ive managed many blazikens, theyre not that annoying, inb4 hydro pump AND HI jump kick misses half the time and they loose a really good amount of health, bullshit i tell u
azureabsol 11 months ago
This really makes me sad. It's like all my favorite pokemon keep getting banned and put with all the other pokemon i dont like.
FearTheBeans 11 months ago
I'm still using him. Alakazam was UU is gen 4, Latias was banned like a year after Garchomp, which is bull because you can just slap a scarf on Latias and sweep but of course people don't consider a set with Latias with a scraf so whatever. Plus if drizzle wasn't banned Blaziken woudl've stayed in but whatever Smogon doesn't run how I play the game.
ipakmann 11 months ago
I'm still using him.
ipakmann 11 months ago
i feel educated. Now off to grind all my pokemon to lvl 100
lurvig 11 months ago
So, the reason Excadrill hasn't been banned is because there is a laundry list of counters and checks for it?
I, for one, agree with the ban and understand the suspect testing process much better now.
Thank you for making this video, Slowflake!
LextownBaseballer11 11 months ago
Pretty much. Excadrill's the equivalent of Scizor last gen - top-notch, but not unbeatable.
Slowflake 11 months ago
I feel like a nerd for understanding this
istismification 11 months ago
So was it a mix of Speed boost and Hi Jump Kick's boost in power getting it the boot, or was it Smogon's mindset of removing the whole Pokemon if an ability is broken?
Also, if I want to play with Blaziken in a tournament somewhere will it be banned from play, or is this only for Smogon-hosted tournaments? Not everyone follows Smogon tiers.
ThePoopsack69 11 months ago
Smogon's ladders and tournaments. So if you don't mind getting raped by Blaziken and HO rain teams 90% of the time, there's everywhere else. However, many people use Smogon's rules even on places like Wi-Fi, so I guess it depends. Personally I feel Smogon's tiers are better, for the simple reason that every other tier list out there is based on theorymon rather than actual battling experience.
As for your first question, they aren't mutually exclusive, both statements are accurate.
Slowflake 11 months ago
can someone explain to me why cant only speed boost blaziken get banned?
devilmaycryagency 11 months ago
Smogon's policy. Besides, have you ever seen a competitive game where the community nerfed broken elements as opposed to banning them? If you ask Smogon to give Speed Boost or HJK the boost, then why doesn't Smashboards enforce handicaps for Snake and Meta-Knight players?
Slowflake 11 months ago
@Slowflake
well i guess we'll have to settle for evolite combusken XD
devilmaycryagency 11 months ago
Or better yet, Infernape. Starter typing redundancy saves the day!
Emboar's still overkill and inferior in every way, though.
Slowflake 11 months ago
Also, Slowflake thanks so much for helping me understand the Blaziken ban. Fuck everyone who makes fun of your voice, because they need to grow up, and realize that eventually, you stop judging pople by what they look or sound like, and start judging them by their character(I feel like a Disney movie lol). I think you are an amazing Youtuber, and I believe that you deserve partnership.
Xmarshall97X 11 months ago 9
@Xmarshall97X If I remember right he has declined a Youtube partership once.
kalma5003 10 months ago
Wynaut was also uber slowflake
Xmarshall97X 11 months ago
Yep, blaziken was broken on Smogon's server. The fact that rain was gone just pushed it over the edge over there. I don't think they're banhappy though.
But, they love their stall, and they love gen 4. I firmly believe their tiering at Smogon to make it just like gen 4, where Sandstorm is the dominant weather and stall rains supreme. and speaking of the latter part of that sentence, stall just got so much stronger...
And I lol'd way back when people complained about the Chomp ban.
pokemonnnerd 11 months ago
Rain wasn't really gone, just balanced compared to the other weathers. As much as I dislike the combo ban for ethical reasons, I can understand that it was enforced to avoid banning Drizzle entirely, ergo, AVOID having gen 4 Mk II. Likewise, banning Blaziken prevented them from having to ban Drought. So I really don't understand why you'd say they keep trying to make Sandstorm the best weather. It's an undeniable fact that rain always was the best weather in equal conditions... [cont'd]
Slowflake 11 months ago
...and that prior to Sand Rush and Sand Force existing, sun was second. So the presence of the combo ban and Blaziken getting the axe reflect a new reality: an attempt to make each weather condition (or lack thereof) reasonably equal, so that neither would break everything.
Slowflake 11 months ago
@Slowflake That implies rain was actually broken. Smogon didn't even try rain with Manaphy being banned. But whatever, I really don't feel like arguing back and forth on Youtube.
pokemonnnerd 11 months ago
If they took away Manaphy before applying the combo ban, it wouldn't have changed much, Kabutops, Kingdra and Ludicolo would've kept rampaging all the same.
Slowflake 11 months ago
@Slowflake ha! I just use espeon to kill everything. My ultimate team is: Nidoking, espeon, umbreon, lapras, dragonite, and blaziken*sob*. Not perfect but they are fairly good and are my favorites
ShadowDeathLighnting 11 months ago
@Slowflake I know, I didn't say it was a threat. But a shuckle with leftovers might even sneak out a kill if the opponent is using a defensive pokemon. It can force out miracle berries, and those who switch to an offensive pokemon to kill it end up with their team crippled for when you send out your real team.
ShadowDeathLighnting 11 months ago
That's true. It's not the best, but it's certainly irritating when you're facing one that's played right. But what I really love using against defensive Pokémon, especially support ones, is Espeon. It doesn't have the stats, but it's so much more stylish.
Slowflake 11 months ago
"noobs from Gamefaqs"? Exsqueeze moi, I happen to be from GameFaqs. >_>
MultiFalconPAWNCH 11 months ago
I don't recall saying all GameFAQers were n00bs, but the concentration of people who think Shaymin-S is a wuss because it can easily be killed with an Ice move and Smogon were off their rocker for unanimously banning it is much higher than anywhere else.
Slowflake 11 months ago