1) health care has been socialized medicine as long as I've been alive (60 yrs)
2) reform makes it LESS socialized than it is
3) less socialized means that the 40 million people who receive free health care without paying premiums will start paying premiums.
4) the 40 million people who are using health care but not paying for it are using the most expensive options for treatment (the ER). When they get strep throat, they go to the ER while I go to a nurse practicioner
Interesting how all the things they are trying to joke about turn out to be true. They are making jokes about all the crappy things in the bill that are actually fucking over all of America. WOW!
HEY LIBERALS ~ READ THE BILL and learn something for once in your lives instead of just listening to the Obamas talking heads telling you how and what to think. This is going to effect you as well as the conservatives. You will not get special FREE treatment.
It would be funny, if all the jokes their making weren't true. So their saying that this isn't socialism, and the government won't control your medical care, and they don't get to say whether you live or die? Yes? No?
These SEIU whores need to suck my cock. When the revolution comes, those fucknuts will be the first against the wall. I promise.
SEIU not only helped write TARP, but these pigs co-wrote the health care bill. The increase in taxes for non -government run plans, they, the bastards gave themselves an out...deleting seiu and acorn members from having to pay these increases in taxes. And also they wrote into TARP,funds to PAY FOR THESE SWEETHEART HEALTH CARE PLANS FOR SEIU AND ACORN!!!! these people are scum and anyone who defends these smelly bastards smell too!!!!!
Great video! 5 stars. The sickening thing is that CPRights and Rick Scott it's founder are professional LIARS who stole 1.7 Billion dollars from the government - YOU. Now he wants to tell you what's best for you. Only a mental cripple would believ what this lying piece of trash says. They don't want the public option because it will mean they must steal less than before. Boo hoo mother fu@%ers! Boo hoo...
Traitorusacommander wrote: " 80% of Americans are happy with their care. "
I have NOT met a single person inthe past 20 years who was happy with their health care. I know 4 people who DIED in the last 2 years because of problems with their insurance
Health Care in the USA should be retitled as Patient Abuse.
Traitor wrote: "Read the plan. Granny will be cut off and encouraged to justs die. "
That isn't an ignorant statement, that is just a lie
I think we have enough history behind us to safely say that both extreme socialism or capitalism tend to create highly undesirable outcomes. Like - tyranny
Get over the cold war and the Red scare and deal with the problems at hand -> A broken health insurance system that Costs literally 4 to 5 times as much as it should while failing to cover 47 million people, and leaving millions more under insured. Many are your neighbors, all are fellow citizens.
Any attempt by the government to interfere with the private sector is socialism. That alone disqualifies the entire bill as socialist, and therefore evil.
jeremiah...get your facts correct...20 million of those 47 million are ILLEGAL ALIENS, another 15 million of that group are young and DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR HEALTH CARE, EVEN THOUGH THEY CAN AFFORD IT!. Don't forget that FORCING people to pay is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND THE LEGAL WAY OF GETTING A BILL LIKE THRU IS WITH AN AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION.
Maybe if I TYPE IN ALL CAPS I can make my points seem loud and annoying too.
I have no doubt that the statistical breakdown of the uninsured in this country would reveal some interesting discussion items. I recently viewed some of the breakdowns from several sources, including some "anti-health-reform" sites. It did not change my view.
You know, what I would really like. I'd really like a discussion about this critically important issue rather than a debate.
all right jeremiah...explain how you pass an unconstitutional law,under the guise of a budget bill, forcing people to pay, which is totally unconstitutional, and using the IRS as an inforcement tool, on the American people, using the American tax payers money to bribe Senate votes (which now has the possibilty of violating federal criminal codes) into law.
herb, what about those who don't have health care? this helps provide a health care plan for those not covered. it is more efficient, less costly and provides better follow-up than ERs.
are you aware of the free health care fairs provided over these last few months, treating hundreds who cannot afford dental or medical care? these folks are desperately underserved.
we treat folks now, or pay much more later. these folks don't go away (if they live), problems multiply and we all pay for ER tx
It is entirely government's fault that healthcare has become unaffordable and scarce. More government involvement will only make healthcare WORSE. Private enterprise is the ONLY way it will ever improve.
And the free healthcare fairs are all the more proof that government intrusion is not needed to provide healhcare.
All those who don't have healthcare are the victims of government policy. Private enterprise is the ONLY thing that provides healthcare. The government has to STOP STEALING from the private sector and STOP persecuting innocent private healthcare providers.
SEIU why are you lying. No one is against healthcare. 80% of Americans are happy with their care. OBAMACARE is rationing and wait lists. Read the plan. Granny will be cut off and encouraged to justs die. Is this what we want? NO!
All of those who want to pay extra taxes and benefit from government care can elect to pay into it.
And the others who don't want to pay can't cry about it later when they lose their fancy corporate job and go $10000 in debt when they have an appendectomy.
Isn't free market based on a market that has to compete and those that can't , they lose. So many don't mind the auto industry failing, why would they be concerned that the health insurance industry has to actually become competitive? Mind you the insurance industry is very diversified. They act like health insurance is their only commodity and sadly some believe them in their rhoteric.
And the 1.5 trillion ... you left off how much savings it will mean for families and small business alike.
The USA has the ... "BEST SPECIALISTS" ... but our Health Care System stinks and is ranked as the Low 37th on a World Scale !! It's like saying "THE USA WON THE MOST GOLD MEDALS IN THE OLYMPICS ... SO THE ENTIRE AMERICAN POPULATION IS MADE OF TOP ATHLETES !! When in reality we have an overweight & sick ...(cancer~heart diseases~diabetic)... population, compared to other nations. Don't buy into the Right-Wing propaganda. Visit my profile for ways in which you can contact your representatives.
Got Eugenics? Seen the depopulation trend of "socialized" countries? The "Managed care" the govt imposed on that sector created the this insurance monster of health care system that we have now. So lets see that little bit of govt and we got this, and we are trying to toss everybody into the hopper now? (compare to public education) Canada private health care industry is surging. And No socialized system works with that take/give philosophy.
What's even more funny is that this is posted by the SEIU. Unionized industries stand to LOSE the most under ObamaCare when the taxes on health benefits (which Obama vehemently attacked McCain for in the campaign) are used to fund the program.
Think about it--are local elected officials and businesses going to spend MORE to pay for good benefits AND the accompanying federal taxes? Or will they just cut or cancel the benefits and say to go on the federal plan... Not hard to figure out...
ObamaCare will not fix the problem of uninsured. $1.6 TRILLION in spending, and it will only cover 16 out of the reported 47 million who don't have insurance. Get the facts and do some critical thinking here people.
This video is a horrible oversimplication and doesn't address any facts other than ideology.
Sorry Herb, I know your argument and we agree to disagree. I'm just wondering what our friend rogerfgay's argument is since he was so quick to say I was not making sense and making a "non-argument argument"
rogerfgay- My first post WAS responding to him. Then I was responding to what YOU had said about my post. It's not that difficult to understand. Oh, by the way, what is YOUR argument!??!!??!?
And the RIGHTY arguments make PERFECT sense!! Kinda like what finefilth posted below: " forced eugenic vaccinations:" and "abolition of homeopaths and other non poisoners". WTF!?!??!!??!!
non-argument arguments...hmmm, isn't that an oxymoron? kinda like people who get sick are irresponsible? What I was doing is called "satire" or "tongue in cheek". Herbs814 suggested below that "healthy" Americans are "responsible". and unhealthy Americans are "the irresponsible" as if we all have complete control over getting sick. The video above is also satire of just the kind of arguments that are being made against reforming health care. But I DO agree that "homeopaths" have rights too
Healthy Americans are responsible and do not deserve to be robbed from in order to support the irresponsible. I make no apologies for that stance. Government insurance schemes do not promote health; they only promote irresponsibility.
Do you think that private insurance schemes promote health? And don't you think that to a great degree, health is a matter of luck. After reading many of your comments, I'm wondering if you're extremist to the point of not understanding reason, or if you have been exposed to something tragic that explains your perspective... or maybe you're just a mean person who hates everyone else around you... Regardless, you're interesting to a degree of morbid fascination, but also a bit chilling.
Private insurance is unequivocably better than government insurance schemes. Health is a matter of responsibility. "Luck" is the excuse of a whiner who denies responsibility and reason.
Socialism is a hateful political philosophy that steals from the responsible to coddle the irresponsible. A more healthy and responsible society comes from promoting responsibility (strictly limited government), not from promoting corruption and irresponsibility (modern "liberalism" or socialism)
Herbs814... I don't get you, and I'm out of time for today. I'll come back and try to answer your points, but for now, I just have to ask, "are you serious?!" I mean you seem to be completely disconnected from human reality. Anyone who is sick, regardless of circumstance, it's *their* fault. Anything that is privately funded is good. Anything publicly funded is bad. Socialism is hateful, regardless of its origins. Liberalism and socialism are the same thing. This is so strange...
Socialism is nothing more than coveting what is not yours and stealing it from whom it actually belongs; socialism is tyranny, funded by theft, motivated by greed and envy.
I have tried to understand where you are coming from, but you do not seem to be reasonable. You're talking like a parrot, "socialism is bad, socialism is bad!" There is no substance to anything you are saying. Freedom fixes the healthcare system. Socialism is evil. You're just a talking point puppet. Best of luck to you.
As a fellow human being, I'd like to know where you're coming from. And as a thinking person, I feel completely perplexed. Care to help me out about what is motivating your views?
So I respectfully submit the "argument" that we, as humans, cannot always control staying healthy. That certain diseases and accidents happen to even the most "responsible, healthy" persons. And that being the case, EVERYONE should be able to obtain healthcare in the greatest, wealthiest country on the planet. Sorry I tried to get that message across in such a "hon-argument argument" below
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Healthy (responsible) Americans should be opposed to being robbed by their own government in order to support the irresponsible.
It is the unions that have opposed real health care reform. They have opposed equal tax treatment for employer-subsidized plans and individually purchased plans. They have opposed allowing people to save for their own health care needs in tax-preferred Health Savings Accounts, which have proven to be successful in lowering costs and more fair to responsible Americans
Yeah, I KNOW what you mean!!!! A very irresponsible friend of mine got cancer and died!!!!!! We all stayed away from the funeral since he so irresponsibly got ill and died. I think he drove by the plumbers union building and that's how he got it. Hey, gotta go, Glenn Beck is about to come on!!!!
Cancer IS caused by irresponsibility. And government coercion and government subsidies and government favoritism towards the big cancer industry and big pharma will only promote more irresponsibility. Am I supposed to coddle irresponsibility to assuage the guilt of the irresponsible. Some people just need to grow up and face the consequences.
I sometimes volunteer in a pediatric cancer center at Sloan Kettering Hospital. Have you ever seen a baby with cancer? A three year old? I have seen many. The types of cancer children get are so rare, the causes aren't even known, and many of the treatments are experimental. Yet most of the kids have perfectly healthy families and siblings. Why do they get cancer? Who knows? It certainly isn't from irresponsible behavior.
It certainly doesn't justify stealing from others to pay their medical expenses. Socialized medicine is unjust. Stealing from the healthy to offer kickbacks to the unhealthy is still stealing.
I like you herb. You're either a decent troll or a complete simpleton. Your antics remind me of a lovable villiage idiot that you just can't quite stay mad at.
But isn't it also too important to allow profit-motivated corporations to control it? At least the government is accountable to the people somewhat. Corporations are accountable to investors, profits, and after awhile, the government. Placing healthcare in the government's hands would at least allow a more direct line from "the people" to something so precious as healthcare. Right now, if an insurance company doesn't want to pay above the $1 million lifetime limit, they don't have to.
It's too important to let a corrupt centralized government control it. The way to decentralize that decision-making power is to cut government power and increase freedom. It is freedom that spreads power among the capable. It is government that puts power in the hands of the corrupt. Healthcare is too important to let government intrude.
"Freedom" is not an organization with funding. "Freedom" is a nebulous concept in which one believes. It is not a a strategy by which we can fix a crumbling healthcare system. I believe in freedom, liberty and integrity, but I do not ask upon them to stitch me up when I am wounded or to pay my medical bills when I am out of funds. The argument is not freedom vs. government. That is just as sensible as saying that you can seek health through a good doctor or by believing in liberty.
Freedom is exactly what is required to solve healthcare. The government has CREATED the healthcare problem. The government taxes too much, spends too much, restricts and regulates too much, prevents competition, and imposes mandates. Government beyond the strict confines of the Constitution is an ASSAULT on freedom. Government is the problem. Less government gives us more quality healthcare.
They don't get medicare! I also have worked with kids with cancer, most families go into massive debt pooling money from fundraisers, churches entire communities because the insurance companies refuse to pay for "experimental treatment" because the cancers are so rare, that the doctors recommend alternative treatments. Medicare has nothing to do with their situation. Ask someone its happened to, or visit a pediatric cancer ward. The stories are heartbreaking.
You are absolutely correct. I have cancer (anaplastic oligodendroglioma), and, on a REGULAR basis, the people at my chemo lab say "This is what you need, but we have to see if insurance will cover it or not, before we give it to you."
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You are alive aren't you? Were you denied the care? No, and if you were you can appeal. With the gov't running healthcare you will be in the hand of those like at the DMV.
Where do you get "No, and you can appeal?" You are assuming that. The answers are "Yes, I have been denied Neulasta, Aranesp, and MRIs, and the only way to appeal to the insurance company is to take them to court." We even had another oncologist, as well as my own, assess my condition, and his verdict was the same on my needs. The insurance company denied both of them. The ins. co. pays what they want to pay, and nothing more.
He/she is alive now, but as we all know, cancer doesn't kill immediately. And a lot of times, the insurance companies use a strategy of prolonging pre-authorization until death, so that the matter becomes moot. I worked as a claims specialist at one of the more moral insurance companies (I said yay or nay on claims, pre-authorizations and pre-need certifications), and this was an openly accepted strategy to avoid payment. Draw it all out until the patient dies... That's what we did.
Yeah, well, private health care is like private schools. The owners are allowed to reject any patient for any reason, no matter how ridiculous it is. For all of these threats of socialism and bankrupcy i'm hearing, the only numbers i see show that it will harm the private businesses. And quite frankly anyone who is SUPPOSED to be in the health care business but who is opposed to spreading health care took the wrong oath. They're supposed to take a Hippocratic oath, not Hypocritical oath.
I work at a hospital I've yet to see people laying outside dying who are denied care. There aree charities that help out. Do you know of any cases where a person was just told to die when there is a non experimental cure in USA? Oh yea right in Oregon there are many but they have univeral healthcare. Look it up
It's rare that people are laying outside dying who are denied non-experimental care, but there are people who are dying (I work at a major, world-renowned healthcare institution, and people die there too due to denial of essential, non-experimental care, due to inability to pay) due to lack funding for treatment. Denial of diagnostic procedures for cancer and diabetes screening to the uninsured often causes chronic ailments to go undiagnosed until they are too advanced to treat.
Also, Oregan does NOT have universal healthcare. Measure 23, the ballot measure in Oregon to establish single-payer healthcare failed in a vote in 2002. Massachusetts has the closest thing to universal healthcare at the moment, but even that isn't single payer healthcare, because their laws require everyone had to purchase health insurance by July 1, 2007.
This misinformation campaign that rabid anti-socialists are perpetuating (such as yourself) is making the special interest groups very happy. As long as you keep making up things like "Oregon has universal healthcare, and look how many people are dying because of it," then the government, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and greedy provider groups get everything they want. The only losers are the U.S. patients. The system is broken. Do you want it to stay broken?
I think you may have confused two separate issues in Oregon. One is universal healthcare and the other is euthanasia. Oregon does have legalized euthanasia, but they do not have universal healthcare. With the legalized euthanasia, doctors are permitted to prescribe lethal doses of certain medications (barbiturates, primarily) to terminally ill patients who wish to end their own lives. The medications are not covered by insurance or public funds. Euthanasia is already pretty rampant, though.
Be honest with yourself -- is your insurance company going to use their profit margins to pay for "experimental treatment"?
A government plan has LESS incentive to deny you care and MORE accountability when they do. I would rather rationing decisions be made by independent, open boards of doctors than behind the closed doors inside an insurance company board room.
You're right...and the proof is all the other Western countries (like Germany, where I am living now) that are collapsing under the weight of their citizens who are satisfied with their "socialist" health care. Life is so terrible here. Yawn.
How, exactly, are they collapsing? And how is it that the U.S. is not collapsing under the weight of medical bankruptcies, private sector fraud, mortgage crises and a higher mortality rate than almost all of the industrialized world?
What insurance companies are efficient? How sensible is it to have health insurance tied to your job, so that you have to work in order to pay for your healthcare, even if you're too sick to work? How reasonable is it that 62% of all U.S. bankruptcies are due to medical bills, and of those, 78% of those people *HAD* health insurance?! Source: 2005 study, Google 'medical bankruptcy percentage' and you'll find numerous links.
And I'm teetering on the edge of becoming one of these people myself - medically bankrupt, WITH health insurance and I'm a healthcare provider, myself. And, I'm joining a large group of others like me - moving to Canada. I figure if I'm working full time to care for the sick, it might as well be in a country that is willing to take care of me when I'm sick. I've been thrilled to death with Canada's healthcare system so far. Happy to join among their providers.
No, it won't. And it's not just "experimental treatment" that is currently being rationed by insurers. Many people simply outrun their lifetime limits on their policies, and can no longer get any treatment, experimental or otherwise. Healthcare is so inflated in price at the moment due to artificial forces imposed by our mishmash private/public/charitable system that it's pretty easy to outrun your lifetime insurance policy limit. Single payer would change many market forces for the better.
Even if the care isn't experimental, most private insurers have a lifetime limit of $750 thousand to $1 million, and with cancer, it's not hard to reach that limit. After that limit has been reached, care can be refused, experimental or otherwise. Lots of cancer patients wither away slowly and painfully, because they've run out of money to pay for their treatments. Unless they're in an immediately life-threatening situation, no one is obligated to care for them, and many don't care for them.
You know... I'm a pacifist, and I really wish that my hard-earned tax dollars were not being stolen from me to subsidize a preemptive war that I believe to be unjustified and steeling our "enemies" against us. I'd love it if I could keep my dollars from being stolen for something for irresponsible violence. But guess what - because I'm a U.S. citizen (for now), my money goes to things I don't necessarily believe in. I do believe (as do many others) that healthcare is A RIGHT for all!
Healthcare is NOT a right. To claim that healthcare is a right is to claim the "right" to STEAL from someone else to pay for it. Healthcare is NOT a right.
First of all, I believe that healthcare IS a right. What you'll find is that what is and is not a right depends on what you BELIEVE is and is not a right. I believe in the Bill of Rights, and I believe in things that fall outside of that, like the right to education, the right to protection by our government from crime, the right to reduction of fire, the right to be treated if I show up with a life-threatening illness in an ER. These are rights I'm currently granted in the U.S.
Second of all, claiming that the right to healthcare is equivalent to the right to steal is like saying the right to education or defense or police is equivalent to the right to steal. If you believe that education, firefighting, defense and police should all be delegated to private groups, then I suppose there's no use debating with you, because there's no way that you're going to agree with me on the healthcare front. You want a vigilante free-for-all.
Neither education nor healthcare should be supported a single dime from federal taxpayers. The federal government has no right to be involved in education or healthcare. EVERY single dime the federal government spends on healthcare or education is STEALING.
I want a government that actually respects the Constitution that was agreed to and kept this country strong for so many years. You seem to want a totalitarian government that is powerful enough to STEAL anything and everything it wants.
I love how the union propagandists try to turn healthy Americans into the enemy. Just because those who are responsible for their own health don't want to coddle those who are irresponsible with their health and finances, socialists attack those who are healthy because they are responsible. Well, if you would be more responsible, you could be healthy too.
Now the union scum are trying to make villians out of people who are RESPONSIBLE enough to be healthy and not dependent on others for handouts. Further proof that unions call good evil and evil good. Unions are the most objectionable villians in this entire healthcare debate.
By the way for all the talk about how the "medical cartel" is controlling everyone's minds with propaganda, what do they have? FOX news maybe that is about it. Meanwhile everyone ignores the propaganda from the other side. A good example right here with this video: SEIU and the other big labor bosses! I don't see why I should trust the THUGS in big labor any more than the HMOs. What we really need is to *reject both arguments* and have medical freedom in this country for a change.
Boy, I sure wish the government was in charge of my health care! They already do such a great job at murdering people.. oops, I mean.. er.. savings lives and making rainbows and butterflies.
(Fact is, the U.S. government elite already account for FIFTY percent of health care spending in the U.S.)
This is a funny video. The republicans are that sad, greedy and evil. Even small business cannot afford to insure their workers because of high premiums from insurance companies.
And the private health care right now exclude people with pre-existing conditions. The health insurance private companies are fighting against Strong Public option is that the Private insurance are scared of the competition. WE need a Strong Public Option to compete with the private Industry for choices.
Health care is a good thing. That's why it's too important to trust to government. Coercion always produces injustice and inefficiency. Only competition and freedom can provide a just and adequate health care system.
"Only competition and freedom can provide a just and adequate health care system."
So let the insurance companies compete freely with a government system. That's what Obama is proposing, you know: not restricting freedom but adding to it.
When you pay insurance premiums, you are joining a medical co-op. The difference between a government co-op and private co-op is: the private co-op adds 35% for profit and finds every possible reason -- legal or otherwise -- to turn down your coverage when you need it. You guys have drunk the purple Kool-Aid when you think insurance companies have your best interests as their priority.
Are you guys/gals related to The Onion? You want to scare them try telling them that unless you are an illegal alien you are not entitled to the best healthcare.
As Americans we are obligated to take care of the welfare of Our people. If your wife would get in a bad accident And need brain surgery that insurance does not cover, or cognitive therapy , I really don't mind paying for it in a public plan. Just as long as my kids have a fighting for the future..Medicaid was started from insurances not doing thier job with the elderly. Guess what? Since then they have found other ways to profit. Cancer brain injury. Anything that they don't pay forces a win.
as long as a select few insanely rich white dudes keep managing to make knee-jerk a-holes think that immigrants and fat people are the cause of their poverty, we're never going to get anywhere.
I cannot understand why so many people have such a visceral reaction against immigrants. I have heard supposedly LIBERAL people say that they'd pretty much prefer to do away with health care entirely if it means that one ILLEGAL is going to get any. We have to understand what is causing people to think like that or we will never be able to have any legislative progress.
Oh, gvt2u... you are too reasonable for your own good. I kid, of course. You're right. The visceral reaction against buzzwords (socialism, communism, fascism, illegal immigrants...) is coming from a place that I do not fully understand, and it is certainly coming from people who do not actually understand the meanings behind the buzzwords themselves. I ran into someone who said he hated "socialists," but he could not tell me what "socialism" was. What is going on here? How do we find out?
A sadly true statement... *sigh* In the end, the rich and powerful control the minds of people like neosin06, patriotusacommander, herbs814 and finefilth. The powerful elite only need to convince them of one thing and that is that any change propagated by the "supposed" powerful elite is untrustworthy, and thus no change is better. You can use democracy to destroy an entire civilization simply by creating small factions that insist *their* way is the only way, or else nothing!
so you get sick, and you want me to pay for it... then when my kids get sick I have to depend on you to pay for it? Yea so that's fair, you pay the same taxes as me?
What do you think insurance is? I'm really healthy - been paying medical ins premiums for years! If you're 22 & only been paying ins for a couple of yrs & get sick, I have to pay for it? Not fair. Or if you get a life threatening disease, why should my ins premiums pay for it? Die, all you sick people, die! Especially kids. Why should I pay to keep you healthy? Just because you're a person, hah, why's that a reason? After all, what would Jesus do?
I'm gonna get you the benefit of the doubt and assume you understand your own question.
If i want to take part in a PRIVATE INSURANCE PROGRAM, i can OPT-IN and PAY for it. IF I DO NOT, then i don't take part.
HOWEVER when the government does this IT'S FORCED upon us we pay it in unfair taxes no matter how we feel, health, or what we have. I can not OPT-OUT! You see the point here? And seeing how i would pay for my own doctors anyway, All i'm doing is paying for you.
The proposol isn't forced. If you want it then take it If you don't then stay with your current provider and hope that they don't stop paying or cancel when you need it the most. You think that your policy covers you in long term illness, read the fine print of what they don't cover. It is the people that work for a living and pay insurance that are getting screwed. LOL trust me...You already pay for the guys that cannot afford it. Called Medicaid, which is better than what I pay money for.
God forbid that you should ever have to pay for the welfare of anybody else. Especially a stranger. That's why Jesus preached against caring for anyone other than yourself.
I'm sorry but if i'm gonna donate to some program I'd like to pick what it's going to be. Having the FEDs push jail time on me if I don't pay taxes so they can waste the money lining pockets and killing the medical field because you think we all should pay for everyone, you don't see how this will not work?
Medical care for all? Question, will everyone pay the same share? NO! So care will fall in value. Doctors are already tired of it! Doctors are already leaving the field or moving over it!
It would only be a fair system if EVERYONE paid the same share of the bill (Taxes) and since we have a free country where i can go out and work and make a lot of money (thus pay more tax) than say you would, is that fair that my taxes go up because i went out and made more money than some intercity drug addict who can't keep your legs shut? Needing tests and making babies (or aborting them) and pushing that cost on me?
I don't think so buddy. I'm not paying for it. Sorry.
Then go move to an island somewhere out in the East Indian Ocean or something, because you are unable to envision yourself as a citizen.
I should go fight and die for my country so some drug addict can be free to live on the streets of America and open her legs to any john that will pay for her drugs? No, I don't think so. I'm not being a soldier for nobody. I fight only for me.
I give plenty, but I'd rather give to the people i pick, that i feel i should give to. Such as my church who i know will feed POOR people. When tax money is collected 65% goes into some politicians pocket. The fed gov completely wastes money, if it was a business it would be broke, in jail and not allowed to do business anymore!
Sorry I just think the public should be able to keep the money they earn and give to the ones they feel need it. The gov has never done this right.
Why don't you move to a remote uninhabited island somewhere so that you don' t have to participate in any nation and work and pay for the welfare of your country?
move on over to Russia if you want welfare for everyone.. Oh you'll enjoy it...
Let's not forget the gov is bound to the laws in the US constitution, these social programs that it does are completely wasteful and illegal according to law. Just like FED is.
The states on a local level DO a FAR better job. Anything the feds get it's dirty little hands in becomes bloated, wasteful and corrupt.
I don't mind my fair share of taxes. To pay for things like our defense (military) and what not.
Where did you get the idea that Russia has welfare for everyone? In both Russia AND China, both famous for trying the massive communist experiment, healthcare is NOT free and it is NOT universal. My parents lived in China for 2 years, and they just marveled at how basic staples of life are not government-funded there (healthcare, education, even firefighting). And if you want to know what is going on in Russia, read the "Health in Russia" article on Wikipedia. Everything's worse since 1991.
When you wanna take my money and give it to some joe who doesn't wanna work and thinks the gov owes him something to me is wrong. I work everyday, even a lot of weekends for what i earn, giving it away to some loser who DOES NOT WANT TO WORK is not welfare it's robbery!
Rob the workers of this country to do what? Give it to people who are to dang lazy to work? I don't think so.
"I work everyday, even a lot of weekends for what i earn, giving it away to some loser who DOES NOT WANT TO WORK is not welfare it's robbery!"
Want to talk robbery? Right now you give your money to a bunch of insurance company bureacrats whose job is to deny you health care by any means they can. We pay more right now for our health care than any other country in the world, and 50 million of us are uninsured. As Dr Phil would say, "How's that workin' out for ya?"
The government has no resources to spend on a government health care plan. A government-run plan can only exist by the government first stealing from the private sector (in order to compete against it). So a government-run health plan is morally indefensible. ONLY private run plans are acceptable.
Stealing? Stealing what, the right to fleece the public? About time we "stole" that back if you ask me. There's nothing morally defensible about the current private plans: we pay nearly twice what the rest of the developed world does (18% GDP vs. about %10) and our system does not work.
You think this will get better once the Gov gives it to "everyone"... By everyone i mean all the people who will never pay into the system... and the people who do pay into the system we will be told of course we make to much. Kinda like any other system that is in place now. They didn't want to take care of one family member of mine (medicare) because she made $1500 a month.. Oh yea this will be a GREAT system... oh boy watch out...
the fact is the medical cartel is the biggest fraud in the economy next to the central bank and planned war ripoffs...
the information to get and keep everyone healthy for dirt cheap is suppressed...in fact
the medical cartel creates disease for massive profit in classic psychopath fashion with vaccines and iatrogenic illness...its actually a death cartel. see the chemtrails?
in fact these guys own the food and chemical cartels that farm us for future medical care and drug sales
Infowars much? You have any idea how many people it would take NATION WIDE to do these chemtrails? (learn about weather buddy) It would be far to hard to keep everyone quite. It's to easy to pick up a phone and get the tip to some news people, or blog it somewhere... please, don't believe the hype so alex jones sells more books. Follow the money man... Chemtrails, you think that (if true) is our worst problem? BUD WE ARE 68 TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT! Maybe as much as 200 trillion!!! We are done
Actually its $2 quadrillion in gambling debts owed by the financiers of the fraudulent and deceptive privately owned US govt. corporation... we the people will eventually repudiate these bogus and fraudulent gambling debts of the parasitic and subversive financiers what good is money when your being deliberately toxified with poison and exotic binary weapons ??
you have just epic failed my troll test by defending the indefensible. You are scratched
You really think your gonna do something? "The People" couldn't stop the bailouts even with millions calling in. Alex hasn't made a dent in anything outside yelling at elites. You really think they care? Pick up a Bible and read it and then you'll understand why this country is about to fall to it's knees.
America will lose Super power status very soon. It's only the grace of God we have not already been destroyed.
i totally agree with your statement.. we are pretty much screwed until the toxic plague or whatever you want to call it runs its course.. i dont follow alex too much a but i do agree with him that these things are happening by design and according to their plan.. your right , they dont care at all
The best way to defend ourselves against the pharmaceutical/chemical cartels is to refuse any coercive nationalized health insurance scheme that would force more resources their way.
I think you're branching off into conspiracy theory. The medical-industrial complex certainly exists, but it's not so sinister as they're getting together and creating iatragenic diseases or new diseases just to sell vaccines. They're certainly profit-motivated, but at one point, the cost of being so obviously evil will bankrupt them in terms of both money and reputation. Look up "Tuskegee Syphilis Trials," and that wasn't even so sinister as what you suggest, but talk about repercussions.
Medicare is available to all people over the age of 65, regardless of your income. If your family member is being denied Medicare coverage, that is illegal. Medicaid, on the other hand, is available regardless of age, and is dependent upon how much money you make. I would have to either quit work or take a lower-paying job to be eligible for Medicaid. That is a problem.
I suspect you've gotten Medicare and Medicaid confused.
Here's what will happen. They will hike the taxes mostly on the middle class (because the make the money) the poor do not the rich don't care they will pay for health care. So the middle class will end up paying for it in taxes.
Then because the taxes can not pay for "everyone" because "everyone" is not paying into the system, the health care will be done on the cheap by doctors who don't give a dang!!
Sounds like you've got it figured all out. You're a soothsayer of sorts, eh? I suppose it would not make sense for us to look to other countries that have had government-run healthcare plans that work and have worked for decades? It's better to make presumptuous, unsourced and absurd pronouncements of what will happen rather than to look to history and our own expenditures ($3 trillion in Iraq so far!) to come to an informed solution to the current healthcare crisis, right?
Thus why people should be paying for their own health care. why in the world do you think depending on someone else to flip your bill is going to be better? You really think the GOV is gonna do a better job? You really think the GOV is going to be "nicer" than these insurance companies?
Question have you ever had to deal with medicare? It's a nightmare!!! That's just dealing with the elderly. You think health care is going to be "easy" "good care"?
One place where I almost agree with you. If everyone paid for their own healthcare, it *might* be possible that the prices would come down enough that healthcare is possible. But it's an experiment that has not been widely tested on the open market, and it would involve getting rid of insurance companies for sure, and probably getting rid of Medicare. Medicaid should stay, because someone needs to pay for the hit-and-run healthcare necessary to treat those who simply can not pay.
Indisputable facts:
1) health care has been socialized medicine as long as I've been alive (60 yrs)
2) reform makes it LESS socialized than it is
3) less socialized means that the 40 million people who receive free health care without paying premiums will start paying premiums.
4) the 40 million people who are using health care but not paying for it are using the most expensive options for treatment (the ER). When they get strep throat, they go to the ER while I go to a nurse practicioner
MISTERWHITE111 7 months ago
Interesting how all the things they are trying to joke about turn out to be true. They are making jokes about all the crappy things in the bill that are actually fucking over all of America. WOW!
HEY LIBERALS ~ READ THE BILL and learn something for once in your lives instead of just listening to the Obamas talking heads telling you how and what to think. This is going to effect you as well as the conservatives. You will not get special FREE treatment.
moski3 1 year ago
It would be funny, if all the jokes their making weren't true. So their saying that this isn't socialism, and the government won't control your medical care, and they don't get to say whether you live or die? Yes? No?
These SEIU whores need to suck my cock. When the revolution comes, those fucknuts will be the first against the wall. I promise.
dankeschone 1 year ago
SEIU not only helped write TARP, but these pigs co-wrote the health care bill. The increase in taxes for non -government run plans, they, the bastards gave themselves an out...deleting seiu and acorn members from having to pay these increases in taxes. And also they wrote into TARP,funds to PAY FOR THESE SWEETHEART HEALTH CARE PLANS FOR SEIU AND ACORN!!!! these people are scum and anyone who defends these smelly bastards smell too!!!!!
submarinerDeep6 2 years ago
I love satires!!
b1gr1g 2 years ago
Great video! 5 stars. The sickening thing is that CPRights and Rick Scott it's founder are professional LIARS who stole 1.7 Billion dollars from the government - YOU. Now he wants to tell you what's best for you. Only a mental cripple would believ what this lying piece of trash says. They don't want the public option because it will mean they must steal less than before. Boo hoo mother fu@%ers! Boo hoo...
OregonDARRYL 2 years ago
Traitorusacommander wrote: " 80% of Americans are happy with their care. "
I have NOT met a single person inthe past 20 years who was happy with their health care. I know 4 people who DIED in the last 2 years because of problems with their insurance
Health Care in the USA should be retitled as Patient Abuse.
Traitor wrote: "Read the plan. Granny will be cut off and encouraged to justs die. "
That isn't an ignorant statement, that is just a lie
MISTERWHITE111 2 years ago
Then you've met a bunch of whiners. The majority of Americans are happy with their health plan. And socialism is the worst idea ever.
herbs814 2 years ago
why do you keep talking about socialism??
I think we have enough history behind us to safely say that both extreme socialism or capitalism tend to create highly undesirable outcomes. Like - tyranny
Get over the cold war and the Red scare and deal with the problems at hand -> A broken health insurance system that Costs literally 4 to 5 times as much as it should while failing to cover 47 million people, and leaving millions more under insured. Many are your neighbors, all are fellow citizens.
Jeremiah137 2 years ago
Any attempt by the government to interfere with the private sector is socialism. That alone disqualifies the entire bill as socialist, and therefore evil.
herbs814 2 years ago
Comment removed
ThePrometheanbeta 2 years ago
jeremiah...get your facts correct...20 million of those 47 million are ILLEGAL ALIENS, another 15 million of that group are young and DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR HEALTH CARE, EVEN THOUGH THEY CAN AFFORD IT!. Don't forget that FORCING people to pay is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND THE LEGAL WAY OF GETTING A BILL LIKE THRU IS WITH AN AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION.
submarinerDeep6 2 years ago
Your argument is not-convincing.
Maybe if I TYPE IN ALL CAPS I can make my points seem loud and annoying too.
I have no doubt that the statistical breakdown of the uninsured in this country would reveal some interesting discussion items. I recently viewed some of the breakdowns from several sources, including some "anti-health-reform" sites. It did not change my view.
You know, what I would really like. I'd really like a discussion about this critically important issue rather than a debate.
Jeremiah137 2 years ago
all right jeremiah...explain how you pass an unconstitutional law,under the guise of a budget bill, forcing people to pay, which is totally unconstitutional, and using the IRS as an inforcement tool, on the American people, using the American tax payers money to bribe Senate votes (which now has the possibilty of violating federal criminal codes) into law.
submarinerDeep6 2 years ago
herb, what about those who don't have health care? this helps provide a health care plan for those not covered. it is more efficient, less costly and provides better follow-up than ERs.
are you aware of the free health care fairs provided over these last few months, treating hundreds who cannot afford dental or medical care? these folks are desperately underserved.
we treat folks now, or pay much more later. these folks don't go away (if they live), problems multiply and we all pay for ER tx
sillionshine 2 years ago
It is entirely government's fault that healthcare has become unaffordable and scarce. More government involvement will only make healthcare WORSE. Private enterprise is the ONLY way it will ever improve.
And the free healthcare fairs are all the more proof that government intrusion is not needed to provide healhcare.
herbs814 2 years ago
@sillionshine
All those who don't have healthcare are the victims of government policy. Private enterprise is the ONLY thing that provides healthcare. The government has to STOP STEALING from the private sector and STOP persecuting innocent private healthcare providers.
herbs814 2 years ago
ROFL! this is so true.
polishshark 2 years ago
Medicare Medicaid are failing so lets expand them and force them on all Americans!!
plazflot 2 years ago
SEIU why are you lying. No one is against healthcare. 80% of Americans are happy with their care. OBAMACARE is rationing and wait lists. Read the plan. Granny will be cut off and encouraged to justs die. Is this what we want? NO!
patriotusacommander 2 years ago
What's scarier than death??
Socialism!!!
Yep, nails it. This satire is in reality the exact ridiculous fearmongering used against health care reform.
orange343434 2 years ago
Socialism causes premature death.
Life demands liberty.
herbs814 2 years ago
what the heck does this statement even mean?? Just because you say something doesn't make it true.
Jeremiah137 2 years ago
Perfect video. Nails it. Five stars.
Naturyl 2 years ago
I've got a plan...
All of those who want to pay extra taxes and benefit from government care can elect to pay into it.
And the others who don't want to pay can't cry about it later when they lose their fancy corporate job and go $10000 in debt when they have an appendectomy.
snapcase55 2 years ago
Medical bankruptcy, even with insurance. Only in America.
Kinda makes you proud huh?
armadilloze 2 years ago
Obamacare is simply going to set the prices lower than the free market can bear.
Part of the plan will also tax employer-based benefits. This will drive employers to drop health insurance for their employees.
This plan has a price tag of $1.5 trillion and this is a conservative estimate.
Max20854 2 years ago
Isn't free market based on a market that has to compete and those that can't , they lose. So many don't mind the auto industry failing, why would they be concerned that the health insurance industry has to actually become competitive? Mind you the insurance industry is very diversified. They act like health insurance is their only commodity and sadly some believe them in their rhoteric.
And the 1.5 trillion ... you left off how much savings it will mean for families and small business alike.
learninlife 2 years ago 2
Brilliant
Ed76638 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The USA has the ... "BEST SPECIALISTS" ... but our Health Care System stinks and is ranked as the Low 37th on a World Scale !! It's like saying "THE USA WON THE MOST GOLD MEDALS IN THE OLYMPICS ... SO THE ENTIRE AMERICAN POPULATION IS MADE OF TOP ATHLETES !! When in reality we have an overweight & sick ...(cancer~heart diseases~diabetic)... population, compared to other nations. Don't buy into the Right-Wing propaganda. Visit my profile for ways in which you can contact your representatives.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
Govt and corporatism = bad totalitarian control
Got Eugenics? Seen the depopulation trend of "socialized" countries? The "Managed care" the govt imposed on that sector created the this insurance monster of health care system that we have now. So lets see that little bit of govt and we got this, and we are trying to toss everybody into the hopper now? (compare to public education) Canada private health care industry is surging. And No socialized system works with that take/give philosophy.
ProsperiaFan 2 years ago
this is great - lets take it viral!!
mbjl1758 2 years ago
What's even more funny is that this is posted by the SEIU. Unionized industries stand to LOSE the most under ObamaCare when the taxes on health benefits (which Obama vehemently attacked McCain for in the campaign) are used to fund the program.
Think about it--are local elected officials and businesses going to spend MORE to pay for good benefits AND the accompanying federal taxes? Or will they just cut or cancel the benefits and say to go on the federal plan... Not hard to figure out...
emperorboot 2 years ago
...do usps and fed/ex & ups co-exist? thought so. oh what's that? usps and ups happen to be UNION as well? gee whiz.
justinwhubbard 2 years ago 2
ObamaCare will not fix the problem of uninsured. $1.6 TRILLION in spending, and it will only cover 16 out of the reported 47 million who don't have insurance. Get the facts and do some critical thinking here people.
This video is a horrible oversimplication and doesn't address any facts other than ideology.
emperorboot 2 years ago
Look whose talking.
FrostbittenWolf 2 years ago
2:43 he's talking about Rush btw
arabrockerman 2 years ago
Oreo cookies!! :D
btownhotties 2 years ago
Sorry Herb, I know your argument and we agree to disagree. I'm just wondering what our friend rogerfgay's argument is since he was so quick to say I was not making sense and making a "non-argument argument"
rogwheel 2 years ago
rogerfgay- My first post WAS responding to him. Then I was responding to what YOU had said about my post. It's not that difficult to understand. Oh, by the way, what is YOUR argument!??!!??!?
rogwheel 2 years ago
These goofy leftist non-argument arguments are more than a little irritating. Save energy - stop posting them.
rogerfgay 2 years ago
And the RIGHTY arguments make PERFECT sense!! Kinda like what finefilth posted below: " forced eugenic vaccinations:" and "abolition of homeopaths and other non poisoners". WTF!?!??!!??!!
rogwheel 2 years ago
Sure rogwheel - you should feel free to continue the trend of producing non-argument arguments - especially if they don't make any sense.
rogerfgay 2 years ago
non-argument arguments...hmmm, isn't that an oxymoron? kinda like people who get sick are irresponsible? What I was doing is called "satire" or "tongue in cheek". Herbs814 suggested below that "healthy" Americans are "responsible". and unhealthy Americans are "the irresponsible" as if we all have complete control over getting sick. The video above is also satire of just the kind of arguments that are being made against reforming health care. But I DO agree that "homeopaths" have rights too
rogwheel 2 years ago
rogwheel - Well, if you're actually responding to someone else, stop using the reply link next to my comments.
rogerfgay 2 years ago
Healthy Americans are responsible and do not deserve to be robbed from in order to support the irresponsible. I make no apologies for that stance. Government insurance schemes do not promote health; they only promote irresponsibility.
herbs814 2 years ago
You're just proving their point though...I'm embarrassed for you!
btownhotties 2 years ago
Do you think that private insurance schemes promote health? And don't you think that to a great degree, health is a matter of luck. After reading many of your comments, I'm wondering if you're extremist to the point of not understanding reason, or if you have been exposed to something tragic that explains your perspective... or maybe you're just a mean person who hates everyone else around you... Regardless, you're interesting to a degree of morbid fascination, but also a bit chilling.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Private insurance is unequivocably better than government insurance schemes. Health is a matter of responsibility. "Luck" is the excuse of a whiner who denies responsibility and reason.
Socialism is a hateful political philosophy that steals from the responsible to coddle the irresponsible. A more healthy and responsible society comes from promoting responsibility (strictly limited government), not from promoting corruption and irresponsibility (modern "liberalism" or socialism)
herbs814 2 years ago
Herbs814... I don't get you, and I'm out of time for today. I'll come back and try to answer your points, but for now, I just have to ask, "are you serious?!" I mean you seem to be completely disconnected from human reality. Anyone who is sick, regardless of circumstance, it's *their* fault. Anything that is privately funded is good. Anything publicly funded is bad. Socialism is hateful, regardless of its origins. Liberalism and socialism are the same thing. This is so strange...
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Socialism is nothing more than coveting what is not yours and stealing it from whom it actually belongs; socialism is tyranny, funded by theft, motivated by greed and envy.
herbs814 2 years ago
I have tried to understand where you are coming from, but you do not seem to be reasonable. You're talking like a parrot, "socialism is bad, socialism is bad!" There is no substance to anything you are saying. Freedom fixes the healthcare system. Socialism is evil. You're just a talking point puppet. Best of luck to you.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Socialism is an act of force against the people; therefore it is unambiguously evil.
Government intrusion is the problem; limiting government power is the solution.
herbs814 2 years ago
As a fellow human being, I'd like to know where you're coming from. And as a thinking person, I feel completely perplexed. Care to help me out about what is motivating your views?
bitterfly77 2 years ago
watch" murder by injection"
a scathing expose of the extortionist poisonous murderous medical monopoly \
put it in you search bar
finefilth 2 years ago
So I respectfully submit the "argument" that we, as humans, cannot always control staying healthy. That certain diseases and accidents happen to even the most "responsible, healthy" persons. And that being the case, EVERYONE should be able to obtain healthcare in the greatest, wealthiest country on the planet. Sorry I tried to get that message across in such a "hon-argument argument" below
rogwheel 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Healthy (responsible) Americans should be opposed to being robbed by their own government in order to support the irresponsible.
It is the unions that have opposed real health care reform. They have opposed equal tax treatment for employer-subsidized plans and individually purchased plans. They have opposed allowing people to save for their own health care needs in tax-preferred Health Savings Accounts, which have proven to be successful in lowering costs and more fair to responsible Americans
herbs814 2 years ago
google" the whale medical fascism" .. also watch 'murder by injection' by eustace mullins put them in your search bar
finefilth 2 years ago
Yeah, I KNOW what you mean!!!! A very irresponsible friend of mine got cancer and died!!!!!! We all stayed away from the funeral since he so irresponsibly got ill and died. I think he drove by the plumbers union building and that's how he got it. Hey, gotta go, Glenn Beck is about to come on!!!!
rogwheel 2 years ago 3
Cancer IS caused by irresponsibility. And government coercion and government subsidies and government favoritism towards the big cancer industry and big pharma will only promote more irresponsibility. Am I supposed to coddle irresponsibility to assuage the guilt of the irresponsible. Some people just need to grow up and face the consequences.
herbs814 2 years ago
I sometimes volunteer in a pediatric cancer center at Sloan Kettering Hospital. Have you ever seen a baby with cancer? A three year old? I have seen many. The types of cancer children get are so rare, the causes aren't even known, and many of the treatments are experimental. Yet most of the kids have perfectly healthy families and siblings. Why do they get cancer? Who knows? It certainly isn't from irresponsible behavior.
cleolefty 2 years ago
It certainly doesn't justify stealing from others to pay their medical expenses. Socialized medicine is unjust. Stealing from the healthy to offer kickbacks to the unhealthy is still stealing.
herbs814 2 years ago
Hahaha.
I like you herb. You're either a decent troll or a complete simpleton. Your antics remind me of a lovable villiage idiot that you just can't quite stay mad at.
soma00110000 2 years ago 2
Health care is too important to allow the government to control it. If you value your life at all, keep the government out of health care.
herbs814 2 years ago
Cool story bro
jerseythedevil 2 years ago
Comment removed
btownhotties 2 years ago
But isn't it also too important to allow profit-motivated corporations to control it? At least the government is accountable to the people somewhat. Corporations are accountable to investors, profits, and after awhile, the government. Placing healthcare in the government's hands would at least allow a more direct line from "the people" to something so precious as healthcare. Right now, if an insurance company doesn't want to pay above the $1 million lifetime limit, they don't have to.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
It's too important to let a corrupt centralized government control it. The way to decentralize that decision-making power is to cut government power and increase freedom. It is freedom that spreads power among the capable. It is government that puts power in the hands of the corrupt. Healthcare is too important to let government intrude.
herbs814 2 years ago
"Freedom" is not an organization with funding. "Freedom" is a nebulous concept in which one believes. It is not a a strategy by which we can fix a crumbling healthcare system. I believe in freedom, liberty and integrity, but I do not ask upon them to stitch me up when I am wounded or to pay my medical bills when I am out of funds. The argument is not freedom vs. government. That is just as sensible as saying that you can seek health through a good doctor or by believing in liberty.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Freedom is exactly what is required to solve healthcare. The government has CREATED the healthcare problem. The government taxes too much, spends too much, restricts and regulates too much, prevents competition, and imposes mandates. Government beyond the strict confines of the Constitution is an ASSAULT on freedom. Government is the problem. Less government gives us more quality healthcare.
herbs814 2 years ago
They don't get medicare! I also have worked with kids with cancer, most families go into massive debt pooling money from fundraisers, churches entire communities because the insurance companies refuse to pay for "experimental treatment" because the cancers are so rare, that the doctors recommend alternative treatments. Medicare has nothing to do with their situation. Ask someone its happened to, or visit a pediatric cancer ward. The stories are heartbreaking.
Julietjeske 2 years ago
Be honest with yourself---is the government going to use tax dollars to pay for "experimental treatment"?
Of course not---rationing will come even more than under private insurers.
emperorboot 2 years ago
That's not the case in the other countries with Universal Health Care.
Our Health Care system could NOT be more rationed than it is now, where sick people are being denied coverage for profit.
djangst 2 years ago 5
You are absolutely correct. I have cancer (anaplastic oligodendroglioma), and, on a REGULAR basis, the people at my chemo lab say "This is what you need, but we have to see if insurance will cover it or not, before we give it to you."
nezpercenathan 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You are alive aren't you? Were you denied the care? No, and if you were you can appeal. With the gov't running healthcare you will be in the hand of those like at the DMV.
patriotusacommander 2 years ago
Where do you get "No, and you can appeal?" You are assuming that. The answers are "Yes, I have been denied Neulasta, Aranesp, and MRIs, and the only way to appeal to the insurance company is to take them to court." We even had another oncologist, as well as my own, assess my condition, and his verdict was the same on my needs. The insurance company denied both of them. The ins. co. pays what they want to pay, and nothing more.
nezpercenathan 2 years ago 5
With private industry running it, you're in the hands of those who simply care about profit and don't give a **** about your health.
mbrlr 2 years ago 2
He/she is alive now, but as we all know, cancer doesn't kill immediately. And a lot of times, the insurance companies use a strategy of prolonging pre-authorization until death, so that the matter becomes moot. I worked as a claims specialist at one of the more moral insurance companies (I said yay or nay on claims, pre-authorizations and pre-need certifications), and this was an openly accepted strategy to avoid payment. Draw it all out until the patient dies... That's what we did.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Yeah, well, private health care is like private schools. The owners are allowed to reject any patient for any reason, no matter how ridiculous it is. For all of these threats of socialism and bankrupcy i'm hearing, the only numbers i see show that it will harm the private businesses. And quite frankly anyone who is SUPPOSED to be in the health care business but who is opposed to spreading health care took the wrong oath. They're supposed to take a Hippocratic oath, not Hypocritical oath.
FrostbittenWolf 2 years ago 6
I work at a hospital I've yet to see people laying outside dying who are denied care. There aree charities that help out. Do you know of any cases where a person was just told to die when there is a non experimental cure in USA? Oh yea right in Oregon there are many but they have univeral healthcare. Look it up
patriotusacommander 2 years ago
It's rare that people are laying outside dying who are denied non-experimental care, but there are people who are dying (I work at a major, world-renowned healthcare institution, and people die there too due to denial of essential, non-experimental care, due to inability to pay) due to lack funding for treatment. Denial of diagnostic procedures for cancer and diabetes screening to the uninsured often causes chronic ailments to go undiagnosed until they are too advanced to treat.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Also, Oregan does NOT have universal healthcare. Measure 23, the ballot measure in Oregon to establish single-payer healthcare failed in a vote in 2002. Massachusetts has the closest thing to universal healthcare at the moment, but even that isn't single payer healthcare, because their laws require everyone had to purchase health insurance by July 1, 2007.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
This misinformation campaign that rabid anti-socialists are perpetuating (such as yourself) is making the special interest groups very happy. As long as you keep making up things like "Oregon has universal healthcare, and look how many people are dying because of it," then the government, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and greedy provider groups get everything they want. The only losers are the U.S. patients. The system is broken. Do you want it to stay broken?
bitterfly77 2 years ago
I think you may have confused two separate issues in Oregon. One is universal healthcare and the other is euthanasia. Oregon does have legalized euthanasia, but they do not have universal healthcare. With the legalized euthanasia, doctors are permitted to prescribe lethal doses of certain medications (barbiturates, primarily) to terminally ill patients who wish to end their own lives. The medications are not covered by insurance or public funds. Euthanasia is already pretty rampant, though.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Be honest with yourself -- is your insurance company going to use their profit margins to pay for "experimental treatment"?
A government plan has LESS incentive to deny you care and MORE accountability when they do. I would rather rationing decisions be made by independent, open boards of doctors than behind the closed doors inside an insurance company board room.
ketemphor 2 years ago
Except those doctors are the underpaid graduates of Gudger Medical School.
Max20854 2 years ago
This makes no sense.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
You're right...and the proof is all the other Western countries (like Germany, where I am living now) that are collapsing under the weight of their citizens who are satisfied with their "socialist" health care. Life is so terrible here. Yawn.
snapcase55 2 years ago 3
How, exactly, are they collapsing? And how is it that the U.S. is not collapsing under the weight of medical bankruptcies, private sector fraud, mortgage crises and a higher mortality rate than almost all of the industrialized world?
bitterfly77 2 years ago
What areas are gov't agencies effecient? None I can think of.
patriotusacommander 2 years ago
Comment removed
rewood3 2 years ago
What areas are gov't agencies efficient? USMC, US Army, US Navy, US Air Force and US Coast Guard. And they have, um, government health care, too.
rewood3 2 years ago
What insurance companies are efficient? How sensible is it to have health insurance tied to your job, so that you have to work in order to pay for your healthcare, even if you're too sick to work? How reasonable is it that 62% of all U.S. bankruptcies are due to medical bills, and of those, 78% of those people *HAD* health insurance?! Source: 2005 study, Google 'medical bankruptcy percentage' and you'll find numerous links.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
And I'm teetering on the edge of becoming one of these people myself - medically bankrupt, WITH health insurance and I'm a healthcare provider, myself. And, I'm joining a large group of others like me - moving to Canada. I figure if I'm working full time to care for the sick, it might as well be in a country that is willing to take care of me when I'm sick. I've been thrilled to death with Canada's healthcare system so far. Happy to join among their providers.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
"A government plan has less incentive to deny you care and more accountability when they do..." You said it quite right, ketemphor.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
No, it won't. And it's not just "experimental treatment" that is currently being rationed by insurers. Many people simply outrun their lifetime limits on their policies, and can no longer get any treatment, experimental or otherwise. Healthcare is so inflated in price at the moment due to artificial forces imposed by our mishmash private/public/charitable system that it's pretty easy to outrun your lifetime insurance policy limit. Single payer would change many market forces for the better.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Even if the care isn't experimental, most private insurers have a lifetime limit of $750 thousand to $1 million, and with cancer, it's not hard to reach that limit. After that limit has been reached, care can be refused, experimental or otherwise. Lots of cancer patients wither away slowly and painfully, because they've run out of money to pay for their treatments. Unless they're in an immediately life-threatening situation, no one is obligated to care for them, and many don't care for them.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
You know... I'm a pacifist, and I really wish that my hard-earned tax dollars were not being stolen from me to subsidize a preemptive war that I believe to be unjustified and steeling our "enemies" against us. I'd love it if I could keep my dollars from being stolen for something for irresponsible violence. But guess what - because I'm a U.S. citizen (for now), my money goes to things I don't necessarily believe in. I do believe (as do many others) that healthcare is A RIGHT for all!
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Healthcare is NOT a right. To claim that healthcare is a right is to claim the "right" to STEAL from someone else to pay for it. Healthcare is NOT a right.
herbs814 2 years ago
First of all, I believe that healthcare IS a right. What you'll find is that what is and is not a right depends on what you BELIEVE is and is not a right. I believe in the Bill of Rights, and I believe in things that fall outside of that, like the right to education, the right to protection by our government from crime, the right to reduction of fire, the right to be treated if I show up with a life-threatening illness in an ER. These are rights I'm currently granted in the U.S.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Second of all, claiming that the right to healthcare is equivalent to the right to steal is like saying the right to education or defense or police is equivalent to the right to steal. If you believe that education, firefighting, defense and police should all be delegated to private groups, then I suppose there's no use debating with you, because there's no way that you're going to agree with me on the healthcare front. You want a vigilante free-for-all.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Neither education nor healthcare should be supported a single dime from federal taxpayers. The federal government has no right to be involved in education or healthcare. EVERY single dime the federal government spends on healthcare or education is STEALING.
I want a government that actually respects the Constitution that was agreed to and kept this country strong for so many years. You seem to want a totalitarian government that is powerful enough to STEAL anything and everything it wants.
herbs814 2 years ago
What the hell is the big cancer industry?
jerseythedevil 2 years ago
Comment removed
btownhotties 2 years ago
the kind of health care they want to give you is not really health care
forced eugenic vaccinations (baxter flushots) only allopathic poisonous 'medicines" allowed
abolition of vitamins and supplements.
abolitiion of homeopaths and other non poisoners
the program they implement will benefit the medical fascists and not the people
finefilth 2 years ago
I love how the union propagandists try to turn healthy Americans into the enemy. Just because those who are responsible for their own health don't want to coddle those who are irresponsible with their health and finances, socialists attack those who are healthy because they are responsible. Well, if you would be more responsible, you could be healthy too.
herbs814 2 years ago
ha ha, you're dumb as hell
howisbabbyformed 2 years ago
Now the union scum are trying to make villians out of people who are RESPONSIBLE enough to be healthy and not dependent on others for handouts. Further proof that unions call good evil and evil good. Unions are the most objectionable villians in this entire healthcare debate.
herbs814 2 years ago
Any place that would put Obama's picture on a dartboard is much smarter than the union propagandists that spread lies like this.
herbs814 2 years ago
By the way for all the talk about how the "medical cartel" is controlling everyone's minds with propaganda, what do they have? FOX news maybe that is about it. Meanwhile everyone ignores the propaganda from the other side. A good example right here with this video: SEIU and the other big labor bosses! I don't see why I should trust the THUGS in big labor any more than the HMOs. What we really need is to *reject both arguments* and have medical freedom in this country for a change.
StoicSentry 2 years ago
Boy, I sure wish the government was in charge of my health care! They already do such a great job at murdering people.. oops, I mean.. er.. savings lives and making rainbows and butterflies.
(Fact is, the U.S. government elite already account for FIFTY percent of health care spending in the U.S.)
StoicSentry 2 years ago
(Fact is, the U.S. government elite already account for FIFTY percent of health care spending in the U.S.)
this is totally false, are you from the moon
howisbabbyformed 2 years ago
bunch of faggots
DarkStar109 2 years ago
"Only competition and freedom can provide a just and adequate health care system." This is my favorite lie next to i wont cum in your mouth
finefilth 2 years ago
This has to be one of the best videos I've ever seen. It gets the msg out, makes me laugh and think. It's also an inspiration to me as a film maker.
5 stars!
Humanleague002 2 years ago 2
This is a funny video. The republicans are that sad, greedy and evil. Even small business cannot afford to insure their workers because of high premiums from insurance companies.
And the private health care right now exclude people with pre-existing conditions. The health insurance private companies are fighting against Strong Public option is that the Private insurance are scared of the competition. WE need a Strong Public Option to compete with the private Industry for choices.
tlogic101 2 years ago 2
Health care is a good thing. That's why it's too important to trust to government. Coercion always produces injustice and inefficiency. Only competition and freedom can provide a just and adequate health care system.
herbs814 2 years ago
"Only competition and freedom can provide a just and adequate health care system."
Does anyone still believe this regurgitated talking point?
AstoundedAtheist 2 years ago
Anyone who actually understands
economics and human nature.
herbs814 2 years ago
"Only competition and freedom can provide a just and adequate health care system."
So let the insurance companies compete freely with a government system. That's what Obama is proposing, you know: not restricting freedom but adding to it.
GammonAndSpinach 2 years ago 5
Up with the drug war down with health care!
killerbandit 2 years ago
When you pay insurance premiums, you are joining a medical co-op. The difference between a government co-op and private co-op is: the private co-op adds 35% for profit and finds every possible reason -- legal or otherwise -- to turn down your coverage when you need it. You guys have drunk the purple Kool-Aid when you think insurance companies have your best interests as their priority.
baglady2000 2 years ago 2
the medical mafia needs to be removed from healthcare.. they were never invited anyway
finefilth 2 years ago
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"Whats worst than death? SOCIALISM." I love how it show real videos of glen beck,fox,ect
elitinkfort 2 years ago
Are you guys/gals related to The Onion? You want to scare them try telling them that unless you are an illegal alien you are not entitled to the best healthcare.
Viewerofvideoss 2 years ago
As Americans we are obligated to take care of the welfare of Our people. If your wife would get in a bad accident And need brain surgery that insurance does not cover, or cognitive therapy , I really don't mind paying for it in a public plan. Just as long as my kids have a fighting for the future..Medicaid was started from insurances not doing thier job with the elderly. Guess what? Since then they have found other ways to profit. Cancer brain injury. Anything that they don't pay forces a win.
corydonindiana 2 years ago 3
I'd be happy to help your children with my tax dollars and my medical skills as well. I, like you, consider it my duty as an American.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
as long as a select few insanely rich white dudes keep managing to make knee-jerk a-holes think that immigrants and fat people are the cause of their poverty, we're never going to get anywhere.
acrowdelectric 2 years ago
I cannot understand why so many people have such a visceral reaction against immigrants. I have heard supposedly LIBERAL people say that they'd pretty much prefer to do away with health care entirely if it means that one ILLEGAL is going to get any. We have to understand what is causing people to think like that or we will never be able to have any legislative progress.
gvt2u 2 years ago
Oh, gvt2u... you are too reasonable for your own good. I kid, of course. You're right. The visceral reaction against buzzwords (socialism, communism, fascism, illegal immigrants...) is coming from a place that I do not fully understand, and it is certainly coming from people who do not actually understand the meanings behind the buzzwords themselves. I ran into someone who said he hated "socialists," but he could not tell me what "socialism" was. What is going on here? How do we find out?
bitterfly77 2 years ago
A sadly true statement... *sigh* In the end, the rich and powerful control the minds of people like neosin06, patriotusacommander, herbs814 and finefilth. The powerful elite only need to convince them of one thing and that is that any change propagated by the "supposed" powerful elite is untrustworthy, and thus no change is better. You can use democracy to destroy an entire civilization simply by creating small factions that insist *their* way is the only way, or else nothing!
bitterfly77 2 years ago
yea funny funny...
so you get sick, and you want me to pay for it... then when my kids get sick I have to depend on you to pay for it? Yea so that's fair, you pay the same taxes as me?
neosin06 2 years ago
What do you think insurance is? I'm really healthy - been paying medical ins premiums for years! If you're 22 & only been paying ins for a couple of yrs & get sick, I have to pay for it? Not fair. Or if you get a life threatening disease, why should my ins premiums pay for it? Die, all you sick people, die! Especially kids. Why should I pay to keep you healthy? Just because you're a person, hah, why's that a reason? After all, what would Jesus do?
baglady2000 2 years ago 2
I'm gonna get you the benefit of the doubt and assume you understand your own question.
If i want to take part in a PRIVATE INSURANCE PROGRAM, i can OPT-IN and PAY for it. IF I DO NOT, then i don't take part.
HOWEVER when the government does this IT'S FORCED upon us we pay it in unfair taxes no matter how we feel, health, or what we have. I can not OPT-OUT! You see the point here? And seeing how i would pay for my own doctors anyway, All i'm doing is paying for you.
neosin06 2 years ago
The proposol isn't forced. If you want it then take it If you don't then stay with your current provider and hope that they don't stop paying or cancel when you need it the most. You think that your policy covers you in long term illness, read the fine print of what they don't cover. It is the people that work for a living and pay insurance that are getting screwed. LOL trust me...You already pay for the guys that cannot afford it. Called Medicaid, which is better than what I pay money for.
corydonindiana 2 years ago 2
God forbid that you should ever have to pay for the welfare of anybody else. Especially a stranger. That's why Jesus preached against caring for anyone other than yourself.
gvt2u 2 years ago
I'm sorry but if i'm gonna donate to some program I'd like to pick what it's going to be. Having the FEDs push jail time on me if I don't pay taxes so they can waste the money lining pockets and killing the medical field because you think we all should pay for everyone, you don't see how this will not work?
Medical care for all? Question, will everyone pay the same share? NO! So care will fall in value. Doctors are already tired of it! Doctors are already leaving the field or moving over it!
neosin06 2 years ago
It would only be a fair system if EVERYONE paid the same share of the bill (Taxes) and since we have a free country where i can go out and work and make a lot of money (thus pay more tax) than say you would, is that fair that my taxes go up because i went out and made more money than some intercity drug addict who can't keep your legs shut? Needing tests and making babies (or aborting them) and pushing that cost on me?
I don't think so buddy. I'm not paying for it. Sorry.
neosin06 2 years ago
How very narrow minded of you.
killerbandit 2 years ago
oh yea narrow minded, sorry if I don't want to give my hard earned money to you... So sorry.
neosin06 2 years ago
Then go move to an island somewhere out in the East Indian Ocean or something, because you are unable to envision yourself as a citizen.
I should go fight and die for my country so some drug addict can be free to live on the streets of America and open her legs to any john that will pay for her drugs? No, I don't think so. I'm not being a soldier for nobody. I fight only for me.
Sound familiar?
gvt2u 2 years ago
I give plenty, but I'd rather give to the people i pick, that i feel i should give to. Such as my church who i know will feed POOR people. When tax money is collected 65% goes into some politicians pocket. The fed gov completely wastes money, if it was a business it would be broke, in jail and not allowed to do business anymore!
Sorry I just think the public should be able to keep the money they earn and give to the ones they feel need it. The gov has never done this right.
neosin06 2 years ago
Why don't you move to a remote uninhabited island somewhere so that you don' t have to participate in any nation and work and pay for the welfare of your country?
gvt2u 2 years ago
move on over to Russia if you want welfare for everyone.. Oh you'll enjoy it...
Let's not forget the gov is bound to the laws in the US constitution, these social programs that it does are completely wasteful and illegal according to law. Just like FED is.
The states on a local level DO a FAR better job. Anything the feds get it's dirty little hands in becomes bloated, wasteful and corrupt.
I don't mind my fair share of taxes. To pay for things like our defense (military) and what not.
neosin06 2 years ago
Where did you get the idea that Russia has welfare for everyone? In both Russia AND China, both famous for trying the massive communist experiment, healthcare is NOT free and it is NOT universal. My parents lived in China for 2 years, and they just marveled at how basic staples of life are not government-funded there (healthcare, education, even firefighting). And if you want to know what is going on in Russia, read the "Health in Russia" article on Wikipedia. Everything's worse since 1991.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
fair taxes is OK, unfair taxes is NOT ok.
When you wanna take my money and give it to some joe who doesn't wanna work and thinks the gov owes him something to me is wrong. I work everyday, even a lot of weekends for what i earn, giving it away to some loser who DOES NOT WANT TO WORK is not welfare it's robbery!
Rob the workers of this country to do what? Give it to people who are to dang lazy to work? I don't think so.
neosin06 2 years ago
"I work everyday, even a lot of weekends for what i earn, giving it away to some loser who DOES NOT WANT TO WORK is not welfare it's robbery!"
Want to talk robbery? Right now you give your money to a bunch of insurance company bureacrats whose job is to deny you health care by any means they can. We pay more right now for our health care than any other country in the world, and 50 million of us are uninsured. As Dr Phil would say, "How's that workin' out for ya?"
GammonAndSpinach 2 years ago 5
The government has no resources to spend on a government health care plan. A government-run plan can only exist by the government first stealing from the private sector (in order to compete against it). So a government-run health plan is morally indefensible. ONLY private run plans are acceptable.
herbs814 2 years ago
Stealing? Stealing what, the right to fleece the public? About time we "stole" that back if you ask me. There's nothing morally defensible about the current private plans: we pay nearly twice what the rest of the developed world does (18% GDP vs. about %10) and our system does not work.
GammonAndSpinach 2 years ago 4
you think a grossly underfunded system is going to work better? Do some math.
300ish million people
Only about 120 - 140million pay taxes
So again how will this cover "everyone"?
The gov will tell you... "Don't get sick"
All one needs to do is look how messed up Canada's health care system is!!! It does NOT work!!!
neosin06 2 years ago
the HMO pirates are stealing half the cash right off the top... these people are not interested in curing people or healing at all
finefilth 2 years ago
You think this will get better once the Gov gives it to "everyone"... By everyone i mean all the people who will never pay into the system... and the people who do pay into the system we will be told of course we make to much. Kinda like any other system that is in place now. They didn't want to take care of one family member of mine (medicare) because she made $1500 a month.. Oh yea this will be a GREAT system... oh boy watch out...
neosin06 2 years ago
the fact is the medical cartel is the biggest fraud in the economy next to the central bank and planned war ripoffs...
the information to get and keep everyone healthy for dirt cheap is suppressed...in fact
the medical cartel creates disease for massive profit in classic psychopath fashion with vaccines and iatrogenic illness...its actually a death cartel. see the chemtrails?
in fact these guys own the food and chemical cartels that farm us for future medical care and drug sales
finefilth 2 years ago
Infowars much? You have any idea how many people it would take NATION WIDE to do these chemtrails? (learn about weather buddy) It would be far to hard to keep everyone quite. It's to easy to pick up a phone and get the tip to some news people, or blog it somewhere... please, don't believe the hype so alex jones sells more books. Follow the money man... Chemtrails, you think that (if true) is our worst problem? BUD WE ARE 68 TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT! Maybe as much as 200 trillion!!! We are done
neosin06 2 years ago
Actually its $2 quadrillion in gambling debts owed by the financiers of the fraudulent and deceptive privately owned US govt. corporation... we the people will eventually repudiate these bogus and fraudulent gambling debts of the parasitic and subversive financiers what good is money when your being deliberately toxified with poison and exotic binary weapons ??
you have just epic failed my troll test by defending the indefensible. You are scratched
neosin06 ..
finefilth 2 years ago
You really think your gonna do something? "The People" couldn't stop the bailouts even with millions calling in. Alex hasn't made a dent in anything outside yelling at elites. You really think they care? Pick up a Bible and read it and then you'll understand why this country is about to fall to it's knees.
America will lose Super power status very soon. It's only the grace of God we have not already been destroyed.
Good luck...
neosin06 2 years ago
i totally agree with your statement.. we are pretty much screwed until the toxic plague or whatever you want to call it runs its course.. i dont follow alex too much a but i do agree with him that these things are happening by design and according to their plan.. your right , they dont care at all
finefilth 2 years ago
The best way to defend ourselves against the pharmaceutical/chemical cartels is to refuse any coercive nationalized health insurance scheme that would force more resources their way.
herbs814 2 years ago
I think you're branching off into conspiracy theory. The medical-industrial complex certainly exists, but it's not so sinister as they're getting together and creating iatragenic diseases or new diseases just to sell vaccines. They're certainly profit-motivated, but at one point, the cost of being so obviously evil will bankrupt them in terms of both money and reputation. Look up "Tuskegee Syphilis Trials," and that wasn't even so sinister as what you suggest, but talk about repercussions.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Medicare is available to all people over the age of 65, regardless of your income. If your family member is being denied Medicare coverage, that is illegal. Medicaid, on the other hand, is available regardless of age, and is dependent upon how much money you make. I would have to either quit work or take a lower-paying job to be eligible for Medicaid. That is a problem.
I suspect you've gotten Medicare and Medicaid confused.
bitterfly77 2 years ago
yup. You just can't fund a system this way.
Here's what will happen. They will hike the taxes mostly on the middle class (because the make the money) the poor do not the rich don't care they will pay for health care. So the middle class will end up paying for it in taxes.
Then because the taxes can not pay for "everyone" because "everyone" is not paying into the system, the health care will be done on the cheap by doctors who don't give a dang!!
You guys think HMOs and PPOs are bad LOL
neosin06 2 years ago
Sounds like you've got it figured all out. You're a soothsayer of sorts, eh? I suppose it would not make sense for us to look to other countries that have had government-run healthcare plans that work and have worked for decades? It's better to make presumptuous, unsourced and absurd pronouncements of what will happen rather than to look to history and our own expenditures ($3 trillion in Iraq so far!) to come to an informed solution to the current healthcare crisis, right?
bitterfly77 2 years ago
Thus why people should be paying for their own health care. why in the world do you think depending on someone else to flip your bill is going to be better? You really think the GOV is gonna do a better job? You really think the GOV is going to be "nicer" than these insurance companies?
Question have you ever had to deal with medicare? It's a nightmare!!! That's just dealing with the elderly. You think health care is going to be "easy" "good care"?
What a surprise your in for!!!!
neosin06 2 years ago
One place where I almost agree with you. If everyone paid for their own healthcare, it *might* be possible that the prices would come down enough that healthcare is possible. But it's an experiment that has not been widely tested on the open market, and it would involve getting rid of insurance companies for sure, and probably getting rid of Medicare. Medicaid should stay, because someone needs to pay for the hit-and-run healthcare necessary to treat those who simply can not pay.
bitterfly77 2 years ago