(2/2) However, having experimented a better political system, I came to the conclusion that the real problem is not the system in itself, but the stupidity of the average human being. Here, they put close minded people to position where they are supposed to argue and come to a common conclusion. No matter how good is the system, most people will not take the time to learn how the it's supposed to work and, consequently, will poorly use their right to vote.
(1/2)Well,... I'm french. When I learned how your political system was working I was astonished to see how archaic it was. I have been told that Americans were proud of their constitution. I think it's much more caused by historical reasons than by its functionality because you are right. Its design allow undesirable things that other design successfully prevent or at least limit.
Mine are simple, no more bailouts, prosecute fraud on Wall Street, Reinstate Glass-Steagal, get corporate money and revolving door out of politics, and election reform, relax ballot access laws third parties and instant runnoff voting.
Man, this vid really makes me want to jump back into the fray on YouTube. As you know, I share your interest in reforming the government and I'm totally with you on getting the discussion rolling! Make some more vids like this!
I'm going to be working at it. My computer and cam on their last legs and I'm too cheap to invest in new ones at the moment.
I hope you get involved again. We need to have some civil debates/discussions in the country, not to mention basic education, if ever want things to get better.
I've been trying to be involved with the OWS movement, but there is a significant danger that it will be usurped by just the liberal side. If that happens, it'll fail.
I have to admit, I'm getting a little disgusted myself.
Also, not trying to be paranoid, but we know that HBGary was working on ways of gaming social media sites and that they bid out on the project to the military. I wonder, considering some of the responses I've seen online, if some group isn't using similar tactics for lulz or just to trash the movement.
Al Sharpton was there just to do his radio-show... just like other journalists are doing. Of course Michael Moore is going to try to usurp this movement. This is his kind of schtick. That doesn't mean that those guys are being embraced as leaders by the group.
Several democrat politicians have been proposed as spokespeople and they were entirely shouted down.
still, I do wish more conservative elements would be involved in a beneficial/team building way.
People are working on it. Rallies are being encouraged versus camping out in spots. As communication channels evolve, things will move faster, but right now, we're still growing and forming networks.
Some people in the crowds are screaming against capitalism... some have the opposite stance. The thing they share is that our government has been corrupted and needs to be fixed. We need to join in if we want our views incorporated.
This is springing up in many areas. WHO, is organizing this? What are the specific demands? I agree the government is corrupt. Why are you petitioning Wall Street, rather than the corrupt government? What do you expect Wall Street to do? I certainly hope it's not 'don't play the corrupt game that will make my competitor eat my lunch'. Your grievance is against the government- not Wall Street.
Right now, it's springing up as a form of group consensus that something is wrong. It is being organized by a diverse range of citizens including both liberal AND conservative. Wall Street was targeted because a large number of citizens feel that corporate money influences the government to the point where it acts against the interests of the public. The Bailout package generated enormous ire. I suggest you listen to "This American Life" when then went to bars on Wall Street.
This American Life recorded Wall Street execs, traders, etc... in bars as they celebrated the bailout. They talk about how they deserved the money as they were smarter than the average Americans. Even worse, the show went to several bars and found similar sentiments at all of them.
I want the banks to pay back the bailout money. I want congress to be augmented by internet voting. I want the wars to end and the foreign bases to close.
A lot of the money that went to the banks during the Bailout were supposedly paid back. Granted, some of it probably was generated by illegally foreclosed homes.
Internet voting would easily be subjected to hacking and I would be against such an idea (sorry).
That's not going to be something 99% of people will agree with. Heck, even I'm against the legalization of all drugs. I think allowing corporations to market addictive and hallucinogenic substances would NOT be a good thing.
@imrational That's a very good question. So long as its done by individuals and not by companies its fine. I would like to see the end of PACs and super PACs personally. I don't think groups outside of the candidate's group or party should be allowed to endorse candidates either. Corruption almost always occurs when the candidate owes someone a favor other than the people.
Reversing CITIZENS UNITED v. FEDERAL ELECTION COMM’N would certainly help but there are a half-dozen or so other neo-liberal policies on the books which have essentially gutted US democracy. US C 08-205 was just icing on the corporate cake.
we need campaign finance reform. without that fundamental change to take the money out of politics nothing else will change. campaign finance reform needs to be at the very top of every list of demands, period.
@imrational i think the next question is how do we get everyone on the same page? when 1 persons reason for protesting is stopping the wars, another is ending the federal reserve and the next is the prohibition on pot, etc. etc. those in power have attacked the 99% from so many angles, it's a very effective divide and conquer strategy. we need to reach out to every group, liberal or conservative, to unite under the same banner. if OWS becomes "the liberal tea party" we will surely fail.
I think that right now, we need to start with things almost everyone will agree with. I think most people would agree that corporations should not be granted the same rights/privileges as citizens or that private property should not be taken from citizens and handed to corporations. If we can achieve overturning those things, we continue moving on to reforms while educating as many as possible why those reforms benefit the majority (i.e. appeal to self-interest).
@imrational i think nearly everyone already agrees that out political system has been bought. i see that as the first domino. once we force our representatives to work for us, then things like citizens united, ending the wars, over criminalizing on behalf of private prisons, they all begin to fall because there is only the money holding them up already. if our rallying cry is about corporate personhood, the media and our representatives will ignore us after the tiniest bit of change. (cont.)
(cont.) they'll pretend that our demands have been met and we'll be in the same position but with less momentum going for us. thats why we need to strike while the iron is hot. we must aim for the heart of the beast and remove the corrupting power of money from our political system first.
Well, you know we both agree on that. What we need are ideas on what to change it to that will actually work and not make things worse. I would like to challenge our public universities to come up with ideas (other than increasing their funding :P ) to improve things and let them debate one another until we could come up with a list of possible changes.
As a former Canadian, now living in the USA, I would add the Universal Health Care option. All of the top 10 countries for high standard of living(US is not one of them), all have this available to their populace. It's the civil thing to do. I worked within the system as a provider and also received care. It works well. There is no perfect system but it's the best out there and morally correct.
As has already been shown... there is not any specific form of healthcare reform that the majority of US citizens embrace. In other words, there isn't a proposed healthcare reform idea that would work as a demand.
Personally, as a nurse who has worked in inner city hospitals across the US, I am against socialized healthcare (even though I would still accept it, seeing that nearly anything would be better than what we have now).
@imrational Many wonderful things are associated with National Health Care. Evidence-based care for all licensed practitioners, non-monopolistic care, no more bankrupt families, no need to have so many fund drives for folks in need of bill help, triage-based care instead of who has the best insurance policy, less crazy profit taking by specialists who drive up costs faster than inflation, more multidisciplinary involvement, more controls over pharma costs, better work conditions for nurses!!
better work conditions for nurses? then why do so many Canadian nurses work in the United States and so few American nurses work in Canada?
Don't get me wrong, our current "system" has failed & I'd take nearly anything else at this point. But I think we need to look carefully/debate before endorsing one. For starters, I think we need to ignore the corporate influence affecting proposed plans.
i heared george soros endorsed the occupy wallstreet guys so im not sure if they won't use this new movement for their own use which is more than likely
There are going to be lots of people who will want to utilize the media coverage and power of the masses concentrating in these protests for their own personal causes. If things continue, we're going to see celebrities, musicians, politicians, fringe groups, etc... all trying to throw in their 2 cents. It's already happening. The important thing is to stay on point and focus on achievable reforms that the majority of citizens would support.
The two-party system falls out naturally from our voting system. If we want more parties, we have to change from a winner-takes-all to, say, proportional representation, or ranked voting. There are other options, and our current one is not the smartest way to do things.
I couldn't agree more with breaking the stranglehold. The two party system is killing us, but we can't get it changed because all the people in power are from the two parties and ALL can be relied upon to not vote against their own interests.
At this point we live in a kleptocracy wherein politicians will pass any immoral shit that pads their wallets even if it leads to untold suffering. Arizona SB1070 and its copycats are perfect examples.
Not everyone would agree with those things. For example, I have issues with the public healthcare option.
As to removing America's from the rest of the world (if that is really desirable) it's not that easy. We might be able to wean ourselves from it, but suddenly backing out would be devastating to not just ours, but other countries as well.
I respect Ron Paul, but instead of wanting to promote only one candidate... how about we think about ways we can reform news and campaign coverage in this country?
Changing voting machines, yes, obviously a good thing. But what on earth has that got to do with those anti-capitalist communist retards occupying Wall Street? Demand things from your politicians, not business owners. Some of these assholes actually assaulted a jew, demanding money. Nice mob to be associated with, don't you think?
@Clausfarre A black man mugs me on the street, thus I shouldn't associate with black folks because others would think I'd mug them because of such a relation. That's your argument, essentially. Participants WILL be detracted for the things they do, but some will even claim that the whole movement is hogwash BECAUSE of a select few. This is something that needs to go, Clausfarre, this inane viewpoint that discolors and misconstrues a *wide* movement based upon an array of ideals.
I toally agree with you we need to stand up and take the powet back. I've been jobless for 2 years now and companies won't even give me an application to apply for the job. Im so sick of this bs with our government.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. The idea that the unemployed are less employable than the currently employed makes me sick.
If you haven't done it yet, please make a video response to this and other videos. I think this is the more important issue of our time. More important than separation of church & state, the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, abortion, etc.
Thanks! PLEASE promote this video and other ones like it. This is a rare opportunity when we might have a chance at true reform. We need to take action now before fringe elements take over and the movement is marginalized.
The way I see it, 99% of Americans would support my first two demands.
It's a good idea (and I support it), but unfortunately, I think that there are quite a few people who would be against it. Right now, we need demands that the majority will support (and there are not many of those). For example, I think my third demand is a pipe dream... but I do think we have an opportunity at definitely getting the first two.
(2/2) However, having experimented a better political system, I came to the conclusion that the real problem is not the system in itself, but the stupidity of the average human being. Here, they put close minded people to position where they are supposed to argue and come to a common conclusion. No matter how good is the system, most people will not take the time to learn how the it's supposed to work and, consequently, will poorly use their right to vote.
MrSupergigamoi 3 months ago
(1/2)Well,... I'm french. When I learned how your political system was working I was astonished to see how archaic it was. I have been told that Americans were proud of their constitution. I think it's much more caused by historical reasons than by its functionality because you are right. Its design allow undesirable things that other design successfully prevent or at least limit.
MrSupergigamoi 3 months ago
Mine are simple, no more bailouts, prosecute fraud on Wall Street, Reinstate Glass-Steagal, get corporate money and revolving door out of politics, and election reform, relax ballot access laws third parties and instant runnoff voting.
esc1127 4 months ago
The "movement" now has to figure out what it's about. Lol
216trixie 5 months ago
1. Get rid of the privately run FED.
2. Stop the 9/11 inside job war machine.
3. Pay reparations to Iraq and Afghanistan. And apologise.
4. Sack the Government.
5. Precious metals backed currency out of the hands of corrupt banksters.
6. Create jobs jobs jobs.....
mr1000rx 5 months ago
Man, this vid really makes me want to jump back into the fray on YouTube. As you know, I share your interest in reforming the government and I'm totally with you on getting the discussion rolling! Make some more vids like this!
zombiechaddy 5 months ago
@zombiechaddy
I'm going to be working at it. My computer and cam on their last legs and I'm too cheap to invest in new ones at the moment.
I hope you get involved again. We need to have some civil debates/discussions in the country, not to mention basic education, if ever want things to get better.
I've been trying to be involved with the OWS movement, but there is a significant danger that it will be usurped by just the liberal side. If that happens, it'll fail.
imrational 5 months ago
@timbor44
I have to admit, I'm getting a little disgusted myself.
Also, not trying to be paranoid, but we know that HBGary was working on ways of gaming social media sites and that they bid out on the project to the military. I wonder, considering some of the responses I've seen online, if some group isn't using similar tactics for lulz or just to trash the movement.
imrational 5 months ago
@timbor44
Al Sharpton was there just to do his radio-show... just like other journalists are doing. Of course Michael Moore is going to try to usurp this movement. This is his kind of schtick. That doesn't mean that those guys are being embraced as leaders by the group.
Several democrat politicians have been proposed as spokespeople and they were entirely shouted down.
still, I do wish more conservative elements would be involved in a beneficial/team building way.
imrational 5 months ago
@timbor44
People are working on it. Rallies are being encouraged versus camping out in spots. As communication channels evolve, things will move faster, but right now, we're still growing and forming networks.
imrational 5 months ago
@timbor44
Some people in the crowds are screaming against capitalism... some have the opposite stance. The thing they share is that our government has been corrupted and needs to be fixed. We need to join in if we want our views incorporated.
imrational 5 months ago
This is springing up in many areas. WHO, is organizing this? What are the specific demands? I agree the government is corrupt. Why are you petitioning Wall Street, rather than the corrupt government? What do you expect Wall Street to do? I certainly hope it's not 'don't play the corrupt game that will make my competitor eat my lunch'. Your grievance is against the government- not Wall Street.
blurglide 5 months ago
@blurglide
Right now, it's springing up as a form of group consensus that something is wrong. It is being organized by a diverse range of citizens including both liberal AND conservative. Wall Street was targeted because a large number of citizens feel that corporate money influences the government to the point where it acts against the interests of the public. The Bailout package generated enormous ire. I suggest you listen to "This American Life" when then went to bars on Wall Street.
imrational 5 months ago
@blurglide con't
This American Life recorded Wall Street execs, traders, etc... in bars as they celebrated the bailout. They talk about how they deserved the money as they were smarter than the average Americans. Even worse, the show went to several bars and found similar sentiments at all of them.
We need reform. BADLY.
imrational 5 months ago
I want the banks to pay back the bailout money. I want congress to be augmented by internet voting. I want the wars to end and the foreign bases to close.
ndyt 5 months ago
@ndyt
A lot of the money that went to the banks during the Bailout were supposedly paid back. Granted, some of it probably was generated by illegally foreclosed homes.
Internet voting would easily be subjected to hacking and I would be against such an idea (sorry).
imrational 5 months ago
@imrational, so, you think on-line banking is ok but on-line voting is bad. You are brainwashed (sorry).
ndyt 5 months ago
@ndyt
where did I say I supported online banking? Please don't put words in my mouth, it's dishonest.
imrational 5 months ago
@imrational, so, you think online banking is bad and gets hacked all the time? If so, you fail.
ndyt 5 months ago
End the senseless wars including the war on drugs!
youngn420 5 months ago
@youngn420
That's not going to be something 99% of people will agree with. Heck, even I'm against the legalization of all drugs. I think allowing corporations to market addictive and hallucinogenic substances would NOT be a good thing.
imrational 5 months ago
Cannot agree more. Just to add to that, we need the preferential voting system(can be done at the state level), and public campaign funding only!
anubis2814 5 months ago
@anubis2814
If we do public campaign funding, what if you want to support your favorite candidate? Can you use your personal funds to buy signs and ads?
If so, where does it end? At what point can't you advertise for your favored candidate?
imrational 5 months ago
@imrational That's a very good question. So long as its done by individuals and not by companies its fine. I would like to see the end of PACs and super PACs personally. I don't think groups outside of the candidate's group or party should be allowed to endorse candidates either. Corruption almost always occurs when the candidate owes someone a favor other than the people.
anubis2814 5 months ago
Reversing CITIZENS UNITED v. FEDERAL ELECTION COMM’N would certainly help but there are a half-dozen or so other neo-liberal policies on the books which have essentially gutted US democracy. US C 08-205 was just icing on the corporate cake.
0gods 5 months ago
Vote for a 3rd party candidate!
WKaliberr 5 months ago
Agreed on all points. Glad this came from you.
jfooj 5 months ago
@jfooj
aw thanks :)
imrational 5 months ago
we need campaign finance reform. without that fundamental change to take the money out of politics nothing else will change. campaign finance reform needs to be at the very top of every list of demands, period.
largegrainsofsalt 5 months ago 5
@largegrainsofsalt
The next question is how do we reform campaign finance?
imrational 5 months ago
@imrational i think the next question is how do we get everyone on the same page? when 1 persons reason for protesting is stopping the wars, another is ending the federal reserve and the next is the prohibition on pot, etc. etc. those in power have attacked the 99% from so many angles, it's a very effective divide and conquer strategy. we need to reach out to every group, liberal or conservative, to unite under the same banner. if OWS becomes "the liberal tea party" we will surely fail.
largegrainsofsalt 5 months ago
@largegrainsofsalt
I think that right now, we need to start with things almost everyone will agree with. I think most people would agree that corporations should not be granted the same rights/privileges as citizens or that private property should not be taken from citizens and handed to corporations. If we can achieve overturning those things, we continue moving on to reforms while educating as many as possible why those reforms benefit the majority (i.e. appeal to self-interest).
imrational 5 months ago
@imrational i think nearly everyone already agrees that out political system has been bought. i see that as the first domino. once we force our representatives to work for us, then things like citizens united, ending the wars, over criminalizing on behalf of private prisons, they all begin to fall because there is only the money holding them up already. if our rallying cry is about corporate personhood, the media and our representatives will ignore us after the tiniest bit of change. (cont.)
largegrainsofsalt 5 months ago
(cont.) they'll pretend that our demands have been met and we'll be in the same position but with less momentum going for us. thats why we need to strike while the iron is hot. we must aim for the heart of the beast and remove the corrupting power of money from our political system first.
largegrainsofsalt 5 months ago
I cant believe it has taken this long for some unrest to surface. Did american idol finally finish?
fantasy0coach 5 months ago
I think you hit the nail on the head with this video.
Corporations with millions of dollars can and do give money to both people running for president so it won't matter who wins.
We need to change this
TheUnmaskedMagician 5 months ago
@TheUnmaskedMagician
Well, you know we both agree on that. What we need are ideas on what to change it to that will actually work and not make things worse. I would like to challenge our public universities to come up with ideas (other than increasing their funding :P ) to improve things and let them debate one another until we could come up with a list of possible changes.
imrational 5 months ago
I demand that the least intelligent 60% of the population be euthanized.
blackacidlizzard 5 months ago
@blackacidlizzard
So, with everybody calling everyone else "stupid", how do you determine who actually has the lower intelligence?
imrational 5 months ago 3
@imrational
I'll be happy to use IQ tests.
blackacidlizzard 5 months ago
@blackacidlizzard
IQ tests do not measure intelligence. They are also biased by socio-economic level and geographic location.
imrational 5 months ago
@imrational
LOL. They do a pretty damn good job of correlating to the effects we would expect from what we think of as intelligence.
How often do you find someone who is inept at academic work who you consider "intelligent"? My bet is that it hasn't been often.
blackacidlizzard 5 months ago
As a former Canadian, now living in the USA, I would add the Universal Health Care option. All of the top 10 countries for high standard of living(US is not one of them), all have this available to their populace. It's the civil thing to do. I worked within the system as a provider and also received care. It works well. There is no perfect system but it's the best out there and morally correct.
saxmanchiro 5 months ago
@saxmanchiro
As has already been shown... there is not any specific form of healthcare reform that the majority of US citizens embrace. In other words, there isn't a proposed healthcare reform idea that would work as a demand.
Personally, as a nurse who has worked in inner city hospitals across the US, I am against socialized healthcare (even though I would still accept it, seeing that nearly anything would be better than what we have now).
imrational 5 months ago
@imrational Many wonderful things are associated with National Health Care. Evidence-based care for all licensed practitioners, non-monopolistic care, no more bankrupt families, no need to have so many fund drives for folks in need of bill help, triage-based care instead of who has the best insurance policy, less crazy profit taking by specialists who drive up costs faster than inflation, more multidisciplinary involvement, more controls over pharma costs, better work conditions for nurses!!
saxmanchiro 5 months ago
@saxmanchiro
better work conditions for nurses? then why do so many Canadian nurses work in the United States and so few American nurses work in Canada?
Don't get me wrong, our current "system" has failed & I'd take nearly anything else at this point. But I think we need to look carefully/debate before endorsing one. For starters, I think we need to ignore the corporate influence affecting proposed plans.
imrational 5 months ago
i heared george soros endorsed the occupy wallstreet guys so im not sure if they won't use this new movement for their own use which is more than likely
happosai27 5 months ago
@happosai27
There are going to be lots of people who will want to utilize the media coverage and power of the masses concentrating in these protests for their own personal causes. If things continue, we're going to see celebrities, musicians, politicians, fringe groups, etc... all trying to throw in their 2 cents. It's already happening. The important thing is to stay on point and focus on achievable reforms that the majority of citizens would support.
imrational 5 months ago
The two-party system falls out naturally from our voting system. If we want more parties, we have to change from a winner-takes-all to, say, proportional representation, or ranked voting. There are other options, and our current one is not the smartest way to do things.
beriukay 5 months ago
Demanding is dividing.
no1saphead 5 months ago
@no1saphead
Yeah, but without that... we will not be able to move forward and will just sink further into the status quo.
imrational 5 months ago
@imrational A lot of people I know stop talking to me when I call them on their stupid Obama jokes.Ending communication .
no1saphead 5 months ago
I couldn't agree more with breaking the stranglehold. The two party system is killing us, but we can't get it changed because all the people in power are from the two parties and ALL can be relied upon to not vote against their own interests.
At this point we live in a kleptocracy wherein politicians will pass any immoral shit that pads their wallets even if it leads to untold suffering. Arizona SB1070 and its copycats are perfect examples.
iconoclastic23 5 months ago
1. Restoration of the Glass-Stiegel Act
2. Returning income tax levels to those of 1944, allowing for inflation
3. Ending all U.S. foreign bases abroad
4. Passing universal healthcare, the public option
5. Stopping all foreign wars and indirect participation in them (via advisors for example)
VaSavoir2007 5 months ago
@VaSavoir2007
Not everyone would agree with those things. For example, I have issues with the public healthcare option.
As to removing America's from the rest of the world (if that is really desirable) it's not that easy. We might be able to wean ourselves from it, but suddenly backing out would be devastating to not just ours, but other countries as well.
imrational 5 months ago
Agree!!!
trick69ist 5 months ago
long time no see!
Kalahridudex 5 months ago
@Kalahridudex
Hi!
Yeah, if you couldn't tell by the video quality, my videocam and computer have seen far better days.
However, I've been thinking about governmental reform for some time and thought we had better start talking about it.
imrational 5 months ago
For the mainstream media to stop ignoring Ron Paul and him become President.
BrindieBear 5 months ago
@BrindieBear
I respect Ron Paul, but instead of wanting to promote only one candidate... how about we think about ways we can reform news and campaign coverage in this country?
imrational 5 months ago
Changing voting machines, yes, obviously a good thing. But what on earth has that got to do with those anti-capitalist communist retards occupying Wall Street? Demand things from your politicians, not business owners. Some of these assholes actually assaulted a jew, demanding money. Nice mob to be associated with, don't you think?
Clausfarre 5 months ago
@Clausfarre A black man mugs me on the street, thus I shouldn't associate with black folks because others would think I'd mug them because of such a relation. That's your argument, essentially. Participants WILL be detracted for the things they do, but some will even claim that the whole movement is hogwash BECAUSE of a select few. This is something that needs to go, Clausfarre, this inane viewpoint that discolors and misconstrues a *wide* movement based upon an array of ideals.
Razgriz515 5 months ago
@Razgriz515
good point Razgriz.
imrational 5 months ago
I toally agree with you we need to stand up and take the powet back. I've been jobless for 2 years now and companies won't even give me an application to apply for the job. Im so sick of this bs with our government.
canbuyu 5 months ago
@canbuyu
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. The idea that the unemployed are less employable than the currently employed makes me sick.
If you haven't done it yet, please make a video response to this and other videos. I think this is the more important issue of our time. More important than separation of church & state, the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, abortion, etc.
imrational 5 months ago
@FormicHiveQueen
Thanks! PLEASE promote this video and other ones like it. This is a rare opportunity when we might have a chance at true reform. We need to take action now before fringe elements take over and the movement is marginalized.
The way I see it, 99% of Americans would support my first two demands.
imrational 5 months ago
how about the complete repeal of The Patriot Act
Shangrily 5 months ago
@Shangrily
It's a good idea (and I support it), but unfortunately, I think that there are quite a few people who would be against it. Right now, we need demands that the majority will support (and there are not many of those). For example, I think my third demand is a pipe dream... but I do think we have an opportunity at definitely getting the first two.
imrational 5 months ago