If some "idiot" grabs your journal 2,500 years from now, will it be passed off as "Another Testament of Jesus Christ," and will there be missionaries the world over telling everyone who will listen to "pray about" your journal to know if it's true? Let's compare apples with apples, not bicycles with helicopters.
28°33'40.94"N 34°48'19.21"E. Hmmm... check it out on Google Earth. Yes, it continually runs, stops just short of the Red Sea, and wouldn't be what I would consider a river now, but look at the geology east of it. There's even trees and date palms....
28°33'40.94"N 34°48'19.21"E. Hmmm... check it out on Google Earth. Yes, it continually runs, stops just short of the Red Sea, and wouldn't be what I would consider a river now, but look at the geology east of it. There's even trees and date palms....
Looks like there is a river/stream 3 days journey from Jerusalem that flows year round after all... Looks like there is a river/stream 3 days journey from Jerusalem that flows year round after all...
Be the first in your Stake to own "Reformed Egyptians For Dummies!!" You'll be the envy of your Ward!! Your "Reformed Egyptian For Dummies" kit includes a new hat, your very own set of magic rocks, and a shiny set of electroplated gold tablets!!
MormonDoctrinedotnet-- where is it reported in the book of Mormon that others knew about the river Laman? Put up or shutup! All you anti's -- it's time to call your proof bluff. Give once and for all the definitive answer of where the BofM came from! I want no theories or possibilities! Take a stand and defend it and prove your answer!
@Eightplex MormonDoctrinedotnet-- where is it reported in the book of Mormon that others knew about the river Laman? Put up or shutup! All you anti's -- it's time to call your proof bluff. Give once and for all the definitive answer of where the BofM came from! I want no theories or possibilities! Take a stand and defend it and prove your answer!
This guy makes an error. The Book of Mormon says Lehi named the river Laman and the valley Lemuel, the Book of Mormon never says these names become official names for the river & valley. Let's say you name your car John the Baptist. Will you ever find a car officially named John the Baptist? No but that name would exist for that car, just wouldn't be the official name of the brand or whatever.
@majinish Are you really that stupid? Before this video came out...you and your kind soley believed in a River Laman....now some guy makes a video to debunk you...and you immediatley start making lousy excuses. Are you really that dumb? Your excuses are the dumbest I have heard...the point that is being made in the video, is not the name of the River....but the idea that the F*CKING RIVER NEVER EXISTED!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO RIVER GOING INTO THE RED SEA! PAY ATTENTION TO THE VIDEO!!!!
@Mark123USA The only one stupid here is you. My kind? I take that as a compliment since my kind follows Christ. No river going to the Red Sea? I suggest you look again. :)
Ummmm....I'm not even going to watch this while video... He starts by asking people for answers they couldn't possibly know. Lehi named the river and valley. His family heard but he didn't go to the nearest city and say "Oh, and I named these places such and such.
@angelmarauder Are you really that dumb? The guy, in the video is saying, that there never was a river flowing into the red sea. The Geoligist, said that if there ever was any type of river going into the Red Sea, there would have been evidence....No one cares about the name of the river, the point is that there never was a river there to begin with. No record of any river ever existing there. The problem is, that you refused to watch the entire video.
I don't know who was stupid enough to spend their time and energy into this issue. I was in the mountains yesterday and I named a stream by my son's name and a tree by my daughters. I wrote about it in my journal and about 2,500 years from now some idiot will grab my journal and go to the region and ask a guide if they have heard of the tree or the river and the guide will look stupefied and then the idiot will put out a video and claim that my journal is a fake. No brain no pain!
I don't know who was stupid enough to spend their time and energy into this issue. I was in the mountains yesterday and I named a stream by my son's name and a tree by my daughters. I wrote about it in my journal and about 2,500 years from now some idiot will grab my journal and go to the region and ask a guide if they have heard of the tree or the river and the guide will look stupefied and then the idiot will put out a video and claim that my journal is a fake. No brain no pain!
@Eightplex It is reported in the Book of Mormon that more than merely a person keeping a journal or diary knew of such places. in fact, the Book of Mormon reports that thousands of people knew of such places. If thousands of people knew of such places (rather than merely "you and your diary"), then oral tradition states that such places would be known by generations that followed. Therefore, such places never existed at all. P.S. Hello from Salt Lake City!
I really wish that Christians would take the same good logic and common sense they use to debunk illogical and crazy Mormon stories, and use it to debunk their own illogical and crazy Bible.
This is so extremely stupid! Even hellfire evangelicals should be able to understand that Lehi called the valley Lemuel and the river Laman. Probably nobody else except Lehi and his family knew these locations by those names.
What is the use of this EXTREME stupidity?
You can see the actual locations in the video "Valley of Lemuel and River of Laman" here on YouTube.
How do you convince the people in the region that the name you have given to the valley and the river is the best and how do you make them adopt your names until 2600 years later?
Why name a river once you are going to abandon it permanently in a short while? If you're going to use it as a reference point, why only describe the area with vague geological details?
With the videos that you referred to, why do apologists reference vague geological formations that could refer to any place? That's the only thing they have to work with.
Peer reviewed historical documents all claim that there haven't been any permanent rivers, in that region, since the Pleistocene.
Lehi named the river and the valley after his two sons in order to teach them something, see 1 Nephi 2:6-11. That's kind of a parable.
The Book of Mormon is no geology book. It is no scientific book in any way, but a thelogical one. If you write something in your diary about a hiking tour you made you will not mention all the rocks and trees on the way.
Why would he name a river just to say how stiffnecked they were? No I don't make a mention of everything, but I especially wouldn't mention things that didn't exist in my time. Would George Washington write about him driving to Valley Forge in his '69 Camaro? Obviously, there is no such way he could have done it.
Also, why does the BoM "try" to use Elizabethan dialect and fail miserably 50% of the time? Why does it even use the word "has" There was no "has" in Elizabethan; it was "hath."
They probably found one, and just one, because they were looking for one. If it flows into the Gulf of Aquaba (Which I even checked google maps, there isn't.) then it doesn't flow into the Red Sea. At least, not directly..
I'm guessing they only found Rivers in the area, and they were East of the Red Sea.
I don't know what these people from the "Nephi Project" are doing, but the coordinates they gave didn't bring up anything. I don't know if they're lying or just made a simple mistake.
Don't follow a book that has nothing to support it, absolutely nothing. the book of mormon is empty, makes claim after claim, many of which have already been disproven. The rest have not one shred of evidence to support them. There is no reason to remain stuck in a religion as empty as mormonism.
leSavaii: Why do you think that the questions about the location of the river laman are stupid? The Red sea is clear because it has no rivers flowing into it. If the river Lamen existed in the desert w/ fresh water wouldn't there be cities around it? Ask the mormons where the Garden of Eden is located, Joseph Smith said it was in Missouri. If you check Genesis it is located in a place where 4 rivers flow through, the Tigris and Euphrates are 2 of them which would be closer to modern day Iraq.
You should think for yourself for the first time in your life about stuff that really matters!
O, and that means stop being a follower of a book which mentions iron swords long before iron was discovered, and is obviously a plagiate of another book full of myths...
How much you paid this guide to respond to your stupid questions?
Ask him where the Garden of Eden was located. How about the rock Moses cracked opened & the people of Israel in the wilderness drank from it?
Mr. preacher...why don't you clean up your own backyard before trying to help out your neighbors?Christian ministers & pastors are constantly fighting about their wisdom, philosophies & their interpretations of their Bible, And youre trying to help us with The Book of Mormon? Get a life!
To ask where a named river is is a reasonable question. If he was lying (as you imply by saying he was bribed) there'd be LDS material EVERYWHERE showing the River Laman - but there isn't. Even if there were some rivers whose names were disputed there could be a case for this river existing - but there isn't.
It's true that some Biblical places are lost to us (such as a rock in the desert [what a desperate argument). EVERY city, place and artifact in the BoM is missing. The BoM is sinking sand.
In fact, there is more evidence that the BoM is true than there is evidence it is not. There are things in the BoM Joseph Smith could not have known, such as names that come from the Middle East, while he had no contact or knowledge of the area. Just one example of hundreds. Oh... and I am NOT a Mormon. I think their doctrine is twisted. But the BoM is a 2nd testament of Jesus Christ.
Preaching "another gospel" means something completely different. The Book of Mormon teaches the gospel of Christ.. it's the same Gospel as the Bible. Gospel does not mean Bible. Look Gospel in the dictionary. There is only 1 definition that could possibly preclude the BoM, but if you do that, then you have to discount the Old Testament as well.
Galations 1: 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
Matthew 24:3-5 And Jesus answered and said to them: Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, I am the Christ, and will deceive many.
This video made me laugh (sorry LOL) because it's so ridiculous. Lehi in the BoM (in the old world) named valleys and rivers for themselves not anyone else. It's painfully obvious if you just read it. This guy went all the way over to Jerusalem to make himself look and sound like a fool.
Jesus said not to believe those who claim that He has shown up before the second coming. Matt 24:23 " Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or ' There He is,' do not believe him. 24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them. 27 " For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. NASU
Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
The LDS teaches that they will be gods, they also teach that God the Father who they call Eloheim lives on a planet near a star called Kolob with his wives. they teach that God the Father had a Father and Mother too, and his father had a mother and father
Joseph Smith and Cowdery were distant cousins and both closely associated with Sigmond Rigby who stole Solomon Spalding's book from which they wrote the book of mormon. The whole thing is plagerized and they consider it from God. LOL.
That's funny stuff. Some people will write and say just about anything to discredit the BoM. Funny thing is you believe everything you wrote down and none of it was researched on your own. It's all came from anti-Mormon propaganda. You can learn from the horse's mouth or the other end. You choose the later.
Some scholars have theorized that Smith became familiar with the name "Moroni" through his study of the treasure-hunting stories of Captain William Kidd.[2] Because Kidd was said to have buried treasure in the Comoros islands, and Moroni is the name of the capital city and largest settlement in the Comoros, it has been suggested that Smith borrowed the name of the settlement and applied it to the angel who led him to buried treasure—the golden plates
Complementing this proposal is the theory that Smith borrowed the names of the Comoros islands and applied them to the hill where he found the golden plates, which he named Cumorah
TEST JOSEPH SMITH/ google Zelph and the Prophet Onandagus, I am very familiar with New York, Onandaga is a county in New York, he took the Name Onandaga , tweaked it a little and made up a name for a Prophet
In the Book of Mormon, he took the name "Angola", there is a Angola NY, named by the Quakers in 1820 for their missionary work in Angola Africa, THINK, why would the word "ANGOLA" appear in the Book of Mormon, it si not an ancient African name nor is it Hebrew or Egyptian
in the Book of Mormon is the "Land of Minon" in New York not far from Joseph Smith's home in Palmyra New York is Minon, named after the Minonion Indians
THINK! in that time and era there were numerous books, newspaper articles etc that talked about Indians being the Lost Tribes of Israel, there were numerous books about the holy land and Arabia. did you check Onandagus and Onandaga, too many coincidences
Why has the LDS church spent millions trying to find the BOM lands but in reality they have found nothing, NOTHING. they have not found bountiful, they are grasping at straws, the Indians did not speak Hebrew, Egyptian, they have found no Hebrew or Egyptian writing, the Indians had no Hebrew or Egyptian customs
they have loads of supporting evidence actuall there s a documentary about ti call exploring the lands of the book of mormon and there is very convincng evidence. i feel bad for saf losers who have made this video to try and disprove it thats far worse. in my opinion they should stop TRYING to shatter peoples faiths especially when it harms no one but instead teaches good christian attributes. go and find somethign better to do with yoru time.
There is as much evidence for and truth in the book of Mormon as there is in the rest of the bible. i.e. none. Get over it, guys, it's all fairy tales.
LHVM: You are willing to use scientific evidence disproving stories in the Book of Mormon (e.g., the lack of geological evidence for a "River Laman") to criticize the LDS religion. Will you accept scientific evidence disproving stories from the bible? Or do you only accept science when it supports yoour religious beliefs?
also...dont try to prove your own beliefs with your own beliefs, youve got to come to where i stand, the book of mormon cannot stand as proof of itself. use the bible to show me where it says that jesus is the brother of satan.... look in the bible and show me where it says that god is flesh and bone.... you do that and ill show you where it says that he is spirit, he is invisible, no man can see him and live.
"dont try to prove your own beliefs with your own beliefs"--but isn't this what every anti-Mormon is attempting to do? You have been presented with admirable evidence that the earth cannot be 6000 years old, and that humans evolved from lower life forms, and yet refuse to believe it because a book in their Bible which they claim is revelation says that the earth is 6000 years old! How is this different from what Mormon's do?
i wish i could say something here that has not already been said. the book of mormon is and always will be a fraud. the only archeologists that have found any evidence of horses in the americas have been discredited, or are not real archaeologists to begin with. i do pray that one day you will pray to the "one" true god taht he will remove the scales from your eyes that you may see.
Mormon missionaries use the same ploys as advertisements you might see on the TV.
You should believe Mormonism because "more and more people are doing it!", or "this really neat, famous person is doing it!" or, "One guy swears by it and I heard he was on his deathbed!"
Rubbish! Every new Mormon should get the "hear no evil, see no evil" monkey statue when they finally decide to buy!
Wrong. If you read the BOM (which I don't recommend, but if you do) you'll see 1 Nephi 2:8 says "he called the name of the river, Laman, and it emptied into the Red Sea; and the valley was in the borders near the mouth thereof."
It is of GREAT concern for all LDS members that the BofM has to be true. I know many former members that have left the LDS faith because they themselves search for defiant answers to the truism of Joseph smith and the BofM. Polygamy, racism, and changing of church doctrines does not help the church in proving its truthfulness.
There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is never mentioned in the video.
the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit.
The Trinity, actual official doctrine of many churches
Read Gen 1:26, Isa 6:8, then read John 10:30. See what you want is to make God in your image so you can understand him, but there are some things that we right now in our present state cannot understand about God. The Trinity is not that hard to understand if you actually read and understand The Bible.
Joseph Smith, Jr. -- "I will prove that the world is wrong, by showing what God is. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea. You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another. I know more than all the world."
-King Follett Discourse, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, pp. 3-4
Nice try but is this Mormon an Archeologist? Or a Geologist, nope. Just another Mormon try to prove that the LIES by Joe are true, boy Satan tries this eveyday. I read The Bible it is a true history book. The BOM is a fraud, and so is Joe Jr.
VOSCD -- I joyfully announce this as Victory Over Socal aka Titan day.
He will no longer trouble good non-Mormons by riding his menacing Toxin-Belching Phallus Skycycle around YouTube -- dropping obscene loads of rubbish into threads.
He Now Posts Exclusively at the BYU Castro Street Blog.
editor2325: It does not. The Bible says that the Earth is 6000 years old. Geologically, we know that it is billions of years old. The Bible says that at one point in time the Earth was entirely flooded. There is no geological evidence of this.
The dating system used to determine the earth's age as billions of years old is useless and based on assumptions...any scientist who knows what they are talking about and not intentionally lying to you knows this...unfortunately people don't want there to be a God because that would mean rules...ignoring a fact doesn't change it.
In contrast there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Mr. Smith, while perhaps honestly trying to help people, didn't have enough revelation from God to let him know that there weren't horses in ancient America. He also thought that the Jacobean English of the KJ bible was the "language of his time" and apparently ancient Americans wrote in the style of 1820s romantics. I think at best he was a well meaning man of wisdom, at worst he was a power/fame hungry fraud.
if so, then why are mormon apologist at byu and elsewhere trying to imply that maybe the word for horse in the bom might mean a deer ?So these great mormon warriors with armour and swords and shields were riding DEER????
God speaks through his word (scripture according to James) you are asking that I believe that God must "speak" to me by a gut feeling. Let us hypothesize that the BoM is false... just suppose okay. If I told you that if you really listened to God he would tell you it was true, and that if you felt it wasn't true then you were wrong... how would you feel? You are not offering a real choice or proof.
The Book of Mormon isn't fiction. Study it, study the bible, pray about it. If you feel you receive an answer that it is not true, don't believe it. If you receive an answer that it is true, then believe it. Don't let somebody else (besides God) tell you what you should believe.
bjalder How can you pray to know if something is fiction or not ? Ok my name is kevin and I'm from England and I attend LDS church .Can you pray to know if what I've told is fiction or would you find out the more obvious way ? The BOM is a fraud perpetrated by a DAVID KORESH style cult leader who brought death and misery to his followers .
You just said, "Don't let somebody else (besides God) tell you what you should believe."...but yet, you told us to pray about the BOM and only believe the answer we receive if the answer is that it is true...hmm...tell me again why I should let you tell me what I should believe...??? ;)
Is it NECESSARY for the BoM to be a literal history? If I came from a Mormon tradition, I would propose that while the BoM is clearly a work of fiction, it still may hold some valuable insights into the human character and relationship with God. This would mirror the Anglican view of the Apocrypha or other extra-canonical scriptures.
leereever: God does not lie. If you take the Bible to be the Word of God, you can test it, archeologically, historically, scientifically. IT HOLDS UP TO THE TEST.
Because is God's revelation. And it is TRUE.
If all cities, peoples, events, etc in the BOM are falsa, how could you say it is revelation from God?
Again, with all due respect, this is just one of the many many things that have to be stretched to believe the BoM account. The DNA, archeology, linguistics, rhetoric, and culture proposed by the BoM do not match those of either ancient America or ancient Judaic culture. It does, however, closely match those of the 19th century.
Nope, I don't buy it. That is spin-doctoring, something your church has an entire organization set up for. & don't be trite & tell me to pray about it, that's a catch 22. A no win. If I say I have prayed about it & I arrive at a different conclusion, you say I didn't pray with a pure heart or with true intent. Stock answer. Catch 22.
Do a more in depth research on the BoM, & don't depend entirely on FARMS & FAIR as your source.
With all due respect, what was found was a valley that fit the description of the Valley of Lemuel. No person living in that area has ever referred to it by that name. That doesn't PROVE that there is no such place, but that's what they are pointing to here.
Well I cant post any URL's, but just do a good google search and search fair lds.
There are many wadis that can get quites large at times wich bring sediment and water into the red sea. The fact that this is all one sided saddens me. You can never prove the BoM is false. I have recieved my witness and even if I couldnt find a counter for your attacks I would still believe. Also how would Joe Smith know about the oasis in the desert that they called bountiful?
About bountiful...where is that again? Please, think about what you've said! What about people who have prayed and received affirmation that a different religion is true yet they have no proof? Why do you trust your feeling over theirs? Why are you right and they not? Christianity has proof! BOM does not!
WELL, I guess It's EITHER THE RED SEA as a sea of something else..cause the Red Sea don't have to be literally the Red Sea...Just a stupid name..it could be another sea that the BOM was talking about. Screw it.
"The only flaws exist in the Book of Mormon. An entire civilization cannot die out and leave NOTHING behind as proof of their existence. Mormons who are aware of these flaws and continue to believe in the truth of the BOM are just plain ignorant." Well said, deconomou.
sorry but wake there was still be some sign of historical artifacts and some prove of its existence i am sorry but your joseph smith made up the book of mormon lol.
well that would be more amazing than an angel visiting the boy who couldnt write and he had a 3rd grade education. Look into it please. Pray about it aswell my friend
Have *you* looked into it? Smith did not write. He put his seer stone in a hat, buried his face in the hat, and dictated what he saw to those who then wrote what he told them. This has been testified to by the "witnesses" in the BOM and well documented. The BOM may be inspired, but that inspiration did not come from God.
it makes no sence because laman was beheaded by nephi so why have fucking river named by him if god wanted him dead so badly that is why joseph smith is a fuckin story teller bravo joseph smith you cast my vote lol.
Any one that still believes in the book of Mormon after viewing th Living Hope Ministries videos and does additional research, just WANTS to believe it true like the people who would aquire teachers to have their ears tickled.
The only flaws exist in the Book of Mormon. An entire civilization cannot die out and leave NOTHING behind as proof of their existence. Mormons who are aware of these flaws and continue to believe in the truth of the BOM are just plain ignorant.
jesus was a convicted criminal dosnt stop him being any less devine. and yes i do pity you because if you need to try and discredit the church to feel good then you have problems
Jesus was convicted in an illegal court (middle of the night, no judge) for claiming to be God, which he was.
Joseph Smith was convicted of Glass Looking and fraud. He was also charged with starting a fraudulent bank which he avoided by fleeing in the middle of the night.
I discredit the church because I'm sick of your 60,000 missionaries knocking on our doors and spreading lies.
LDS is a cult. No doubt about it. So shut your mouth and go do your Freemason temple rituals.
well im sorry you feel that way. we obviously have different ideas about jesus christ hevenly father and the holy ghost and also the prophets on the earth. i imagine we wont come to any agreement. but to all those that do read this i would encourage you to read the book of mormon for yourselves and pray sincearly about it.
if this is the so called church of the devil and is a cult as this guy says and if god wants us to be happy he will make it known to you agreed? but if it is truth....
There's no "if". Your church does not teach truth...PERIOD. It's just another organization that's there in an effort to control people and take 10% of their money. The church is worth Billions and they use it to destroy people who leave the church and find truth.
the use it to help poverty stricken countrys. none of the bishops or people who have callings are paid. so its not as if they get the money. and i testyify that blessings come greatly to those who do pay 10% fully i knwo in my life its blessed me greatly.
our church teaches that we should be like jesus are you saying that that isnt truth ? does yoru church teach we shouldnt be like jesus ? and as far as i knwo the church has not destroyed anyone
Yes, and being like Jesus means teaching what He taught. He did not teach that you would become a God. He also taught us to stay away from FALSE PROPHETS who are wolves that come in sheep's clothing. Joseph Smith is the epitomy of a false prophet. He lied, embezzled money, was involved in cult-like worship and killed two men before being shot in Carthage. All those positive things you mentioned are done by Biblical Christians too. You don't need the LDS Church to do those things.
well i think the differnce between me an dyou is i have faith and you claim i am living in ignorance. but the truth is i have felt the holy ghost TESTIFY to me that being a LDS is the right thing to do and dont think that im a ignorant person in my human nature and my questions have been confirmed to me .
the truth comes from personal prayer and seeking for truth and i have discovered it. im sorry that obviously annoys some people but thats my life and the life of 13 million other people
If you are insisting I don't have faith, think again. I am a devout Christian and I don't appreciate your missionaries going around and telling people they are Christian when they are not.
You "know" it's right simply because you WANT it to be right. LDS theology very easy to disprove through both religious and non-religious things.
You claim to believe the Bible so read Proverbs 28:26 and Jeremiah 17:9 and then tell me if you should listen to your heart.
we are christian we teach christian beliefs and im sorry i know for a fact that a worthy latter day saint lives more worthily than any other christain faith. id find it hard to find a place where people do not drink or smoke and have good strong family values centered around the love of christ. and we also have a belief that we have the priesthood ordained by god.
im starting to realise that we just wont be able to agree on this and to be honest i dont knwo why i evened responded.
until god gave him revelation that said it was wrong you forget prophets of old have made mistakes jona for example joseph smith was a wounderful man i didnt say he was perfect.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. We are under the new covenant, no polygamy, Joseph Smith not only married other woman , he also took other men's wives.
Christ never said anything one way or the other about polygamy, but chastised MEN for divorcing WIVES for "any cause"--meaning whatever reason they saw fit; this is a cultural indictment, not a pronouncement of doctrine; the doctrine is the importance of marriage, mentioned twice earlier-Matt 5:32 and 19:6-both times specifying the wrongness of ending marriage--no divorce.
this is not what we teach this is twisted lies with some truth. we are taught we will have what are heavenly father haves if we are faithful like what every father would want for his children.
yeah, not much Mormons can answer there, except that if Joseph was a prophet, and the Lord did reveal to him that marriage is forever, that commandment supersedes this, just as the Gospel superseded the Law, and if you are justified in disbelieving based on this scripture, every Jew, Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist is justified in disbelieving you Christ's message based on their scriptures.
God has always sent prophets; how do we know which one (or ones) are right?
and as far as missionaries go . in 3 months im leaving on my mission and im going to spread the gospel which such veroscity and eagerness becasue i know that being a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints is the only way back to our heavenly father and i know that is a bold statement but i belive it to be more true than anything else in my life.
i love the church i love what it stands for and the fact that people appose it so much just strengthens my testimony of its truth
Pro 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered
I hope you serve your mission in "Onandaga county" new york, so it will remind you of Joseph Smith making up the name "Onandagus" in the story of zelph , you will also notice he used a lot of New York names in the BOM too
so your saying its wrong to have faith? and this scripture reference is refering to people who are prideful and are trusting in there stubborness not in there faith i suggest you look more closely
Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
The LDS teaches that Nephites white skin color changed to darkskin because of sin, they also teach that black africans have the curse of cain in the Pearl of Great price
where does it state in the Bible that cain was cursed with Black skin ? or Ham or caanan ? the mark on cains forehead was the letter Tau (the shape of the cross) Christ was cursed for our sins, He took our place
Isa 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye [are] gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold [it] together. Isa 41:24 Behold, ye [are] of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination [is he that] chooseth you
the LDS declare that they have prophets and that they will be gods
we have prophets why wouldnt we have prophets god loves us and he love dteh peopel from the old testiment they had prophets. why wouldnt god want us to have a prophet who can guide us and teach the gospel in its full truth.
we belive that we can become like are heavenly father providing we are faithful and obediant. wouldnt you want your children to have everything good that you have?
Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart
Joseph Smith, Bringham Young made many false prophecies
The church is the only true church in the world. You can find your answer by yourself.
Ask the Lord if the book of mormon is true, and He will answer you in your heart by the power of the Holy ghost. It's simple and everybody can do it, because our heavenly Father do not make any distinctions between us.
So everybody who reads the BoM gets what? - a subjective feeling which you pray for? and if it doesn't happen - it's your fault. This is an argument that mormons can't lose,muslims are also convinced that the truth of the koran is obvious to anyone who reads it with sincerity and, I suppose the adherents of every 'holy book' in the world. As archaeology, DNA, linguistics, geography & anthropology utterly disprove it I can't read it with any feeling other than contempt for a transparent heresy.
When I first read the book of mormon, I wasn't impressed, but I confess that I felt peace in my heart. I let the simple things guide me in a way that I didn't want to complicate things with my reasons. So it happened in very special way.Just read the book an pay attention to your feelings.let me know which chapter you are reading, maybe I can help you.
I know that God loves us. He allows us to exercise our moral agency even when we misuse it. He permits us to make our own decisions.
Christ cannot help us if we do not trust Him; He cannot teach us if we do not serve Him. He will not force us to do what's right, but He will show us the way only when we decide to serve Him. Certainly, for us to serve in His kingdom, Christ requires that we experience a change of thought and attitude.
Aunti, it is NOT that anyone is not trusting Jesus. Jesus is fine. It's JosephsMYTH that we freely question. It is our DUTY to test all "spirits". That is what this process is all about. If HE (Christ) "permits us to make our own decisions", why the venom expressed by LDS when we have made OUR decision to grill Mormons as to the legitimacy or their docrine and history?
After all, polygamy, magic underpanties, the payment of CK fees and secret temple names and handshakes are all required (by Mormons)
to "get into heaven". You don't see this in any way, as something really, really weird--something that SHOULD be torn apart and thoroughly examined?? Why does it offend Mormons when we do that? It not only violates (seemingly) scriptural precedents (even your own), as well as widely accepted standards of reason.
What is the defintion of christian to you? because to me it is anyone who follows christ. now I am not a mormon, and do not plan on becoming one, but to discredit their religion is cruel, especially when they haven't done anything to you.
Although Mormons are usually friendly and kind people, they are deceived by a false religion that distorts the nature of God, the Person of Jesus Christ, and the means of salvation. Therefore, if they say they follow Christ, then they would trust and obey His Word and the warnings he gives us (Gal 1:6-9, Deut 13:1-5, 1 John 4:1, & others) and turn from the lies of Joseph Smith's LDS church.
Christians are commanded to contend for the faith. Jude 1:3 and to cast down imaginations. 1 Cor 10:3-5
I'm sorry, but to me that's like not telling the Germans living under the Nazi regime that Hitler was lying to them. Truth should always be known, and you shouldn't be making decisions of faith without the facts. If I had the ability to stop Charles Manson or Jim Jones from deceiving those people, I would do it. We have that ability with the lds church, and we should do it.
"Joseph Smith was convicted of Glass Looking and fraud" for which he deserved to be killed by a mob? And how do you know Christ was God? Just because he said so? Jews and Muslims would have a problem with that logic, I think.
Eightplex:
If some "idiot" grabs your journal 2,500 years from now, will it be passed off as "Another Testament of Jesus Christ," and will there be missionaries the world over telling everyone who will listen to "pray about" your journal to know if it's true? Let's compare apples with apples, not bicycles with helicopters.
wannawatchu66 8 months ago
Who is thumbing down the facts of geography?!?!?!
Only Mormons would be angry that the earth doesn't conform to their prophet's fictional book!!
thesignsoflife7 10 months ago
28°33'40.94"N 34°48'19.21"E. Hmmm... check it out on Google Earth. Yes, it continually runs, stops just short of the Red Sea, and wouldn't be what I would consider a river now, but look at the geology east of it. There's even trees and date palms....
rlhathaway56 11 months ago
28°33'40.94"N 34°48'19.21"E. Hmmm... check it out on Google Earth. Yes, it continually runs, stops just short of the Red Sea, and wouldn't be what I would consider a river now, but look at the geology east of it. There's even trees and date palms....
rlhathaway56 11 months ago
28°33'40.94"N 34°48'19.21"E. Hmmm... check it out on Google Earth.
rlhathaway56 11 months ago
Looks like there is a river/stream 3 days journey from Jerusalem that flows year round after all... Looks like there is a river/stream 3 days journey from Jerusalem that flows year round after all...
jefflindsaydotcom/BMEvidences.shtml#lemuel
angiestarr18yahoo 11 months ago
Looks like there is a river/stream 3 days journey from Jerusalem that flows year round after all...
angiestarr18yahoo 11 months ago
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CounterCultureLives 1 year ago
MormonDoctrinedotnet-- where is it reported in the book of Mormon that others knew about the river Laman? Put up or shutup! All you anti's -- it's time to call your proof bluff. Give once and for all the definitive answer of where the BofM came from! I want no theories or possibilities! Take a stand and defend it and prove your answer!
Eightplex 1 year ago
@Eightplex MormonDoctrinedotnet-- where is it reported in the book of Mormon that others knew about the river Laman? Put up or shutup! All you anti's -- it's time to call your proof bluff. Give once and for all the definitive answer of where the BofM came from! I want no theories or possibilities! Take a stand and defend it and prove your answer!
Eightplex 1 year ago
This guy makes an error. The Book of Mormon says Lehi named the river Laman and the valley Lemuel, the Book of Mormon never says these names become official names for the river & valley. Let's say you name your car John the Baptist. Will you ever find a car officially named John the Baptist? No but that name would exist for that car, just wouldn't be the official name of the brand or whatever.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish Are you really that stupid? Before this video came out...you and your kind soley believed in a River Laman....now some guy makes a video to debunk you...and you immediatley start making lousy excuses. Are you really that dumb? Your excuses are the dumbest I have heard...the point that is being made in the video, is not the name of the River....but the idea that the F*CKING RIVER NEVER EXISTED!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO RIVER GOING INTO THE RED SEA! PAY ATTENTION TO THE VIDEO!!!!
Mark123USA 1 year ago
@Mark123USA The only one stupid here is you. My kind? I take that as a compliment since my kind follows Christ. No river going to the Red Sea? I suggest you look again. :)
majinish 1 year ago
Ummmm....I'm not even going to watch this while video... He starts by asking people for answers they couldn't possibly know. Lehi named the river and valley. His family heard but he didn't go to the nearest city and say "Oh, and I named these places such and such.
Ridiculously flawed syllogism.
angelmarauder 1 year ago
@angelmarauder Are you really that dumb? The guy, in the video is saying, that there never was a river flowing into the red sea. The Geoligist, said that if there ever was any type of river going into the Red Sea, there would have been evidence....No one cares about the name of the river, the point is that there never was a river there to begin with. No record of any river ever existing there. The problem is, that you refused to watch the entire video.
Mark123USA 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I don't know who was stupid enough to spend their time and energy into this issue. I was in the mountains yesterday and I named a stream by my son's name and a tree by my daughters. I wrote about it in my journal and about 2,500 years from now some idiot will grab my journal and go to the region and ask a guide if they have heard of the tree or the river and the guide will look stupefied and then the idiot will put out a video and claim that my journal is a fake. No brain no pain!
Eightplex 1 year ago
I don't know who was stupid enough to spend their time and energy into this issue. I was in the mountains yesterday and I named a stream by my son's name and a tree by my daughters. I wrote about it in my journal and about 2,500 years from now some idiot will grab my journal and go to the region and ask a guide if they have heard of the tree or the river and the guide will look stupefied and then the idiot will put out a video and claim that my journal is a fake. No brain no pain!
Eightplex 1 year ago
@Eightplex It is reported in the Book of Mormon that more than merely a person keeping a journal or diary knew of such places. in fact, the Book of Mormon reports that thousands of people knew of such places. If thousands of people knew of such places (rather than merely "you and your diary"), then oral tradition states that such places would be known by generations that followed. Therefore, such places never existed at all. P.S. Hello from Salt Lake City!
MormonDoctrinedotnet 1 year ago
Rayman was awesome.
killamonkey 1 year ago
LOL I love this.Its so funny
elainescolors 1 year ago
I really wish that Christians would take the same good logic and common sense they use to debunk illogical and crazy Mormon stories, and use it to debunk their own illogical and crazy Bible.
terracottapie 1 year ago
If you want the truth, ask a Jew. Not one American Native could give any facts about the fables of the bookamoreman.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
This is so extremely stupid! Even hellfire evangelicals should be able to understand that Lehi called the valley Lemuel and the river Laman. Probably nobody else except Lehi and his family knew these locations by those names.
What is the use of this EXTREME stupidity?
You can see the actual locations in the video "Valley of Lemuel and River of Laman" here on YouTube.
Troul478 2 years ago
Why name a river when you don't expect other people to call it the same thing? Especially when you are going to another continent?
underpantssquirrel 2 years ago
How do you convince the people in the region that the name you have given to the valley and the river is the best and how do you make them adopt your names until 2600 years later?
Troul478 2 years ago
Why name a river once you are going to abandon it permanently in a short while? If you're going to use it as a reference point, why only describe the area with vague geological details?
With the videos that you referred to, why do apologists reference vague geological formations that could refer to any place? That's the only thing they have to work with.
Peer reviewed historical documents all claim that there haven't been any permanent rivers, in that region, since the Pleistocene.
Sorry.
underpantssquirrel 2 years ago 3
Lehi named the river and the valley after his two sons in order to teach them something, see 1 Nephi 2:6-11. That's kind of a parable.
The Book of Mormon is no geology book. It is no scientific book in any way, but a thelogical one. If you write something in your diary about a hiking tour you made you will not mention all the rocks and trees on the way.
Troul478 2 years ago
Why would he name a river just to say how stiffnecked they were? No I don't make a mention of everything, but I especially wouldn't mention things that didn't exist in my time. Would George Washington write about him driving to Valley Forge in his '69 Camaro? Obviously, there is no such way he could have done it.
Also, why does the BoM "try" to use Elizabethan dialect and fail miserably 50% of the time? Why does it even use the word "has" There was no "has" in Elizabethan; it was "hath."
underpantssquirrel 2 years ago 3
Our apologists just react to critics who claim that there is absolutly NO evidence that the Book of Mormon plays in a real setting. That's false.
If there is not permanent river on the coast of the Gulf of Aqaba then why did our people find one? And just ONE.
Troul478 2 years ago
They probably found one, and just one, because they were looking for one. If it flows into the Gulf of Aquaba (Which I even checked google maps, there isn't.) then it doesn't flow into the Red Sea. At least, not directly..
I'm guessing they only found Rivers in the area, and they were East of the Red Sea.
I don't know what these people from the "Nephi Project" are doing, but the coordinates they gave didn't bring up anything. I don't know if they're lying or just made a simple mistake.
underpantssquirrel 2 years ago
Just google "A new candidate in Arabia for the River of Lemuel"
You will find all the relevant information there.
Troul478 2 years ago
It must be "Valley of Lemuel", of course.
Troul478 2 years ago
Don't follow a book that has nothing to support it, absolutely nothing. the book of mormon is empty, makes claim after claim, many of which have already been disproven. The rest have not one shred of evidence to support them. There is no reason to remain stuck in a religion as empty as mormonism.
landsdown44 2 years ago 3
Terukin200:Can you tell me where the Bible says to pray about something to see if it is true?
tlpjohn40 2 years ago
leSavaii: Why do you think that the questions about the location of the river laman are stupid? The Red sea is clear because it has no rivers flowing into it. If the river Lamen existed in the desert w/ fresh water wouldn't there be cities around it? Ask the mormons where the Garden of Eden is located, Joseph Smith said it was in Missouri. If you check Genesis it is located in a place where 4 rivers flow through, the Tigris and Euphrates are 2 of them which would be closer to modern day Iraq.
tlpjohn40 2 years ago
LOL, I am Mormon!! What should I do now?
LoboAscuridad 2 years ago
You should think for yourself for the first time in your life about stuff that really matters!
O, and that means stop being a follower of a book which mentions iron swords long before iron was discovered, and is obviously a plagiate of another book full of myths...
emielfvisser 2 years ago
Wow that took place a little over 2000 years ago.
Quicker23to2 2 years ago
How much you paid this guide to respond to your stupid questions?
Ask him where the Garden of Eden was located. How about the rock Moses cracked opened & the people of Israel in the wilderness drank from it?
Mr. preacher...why don't you clean up your own backyard before trying to help out your neighbors?Christian ministers & pastors are constantly fighting about their wisdom, philosophies & their interpretations of their Bible, And youre trying to help us with The Book of Mormon? Get a life!
leSavaii 2 years ago
To ask where a named river is is a reasonable question. If he was lying (as you imply by saying he was bribed) there'd be LDS material EVERYWHERE showing the River Laman - but there isn't. Even if there were some rivers whose names were disputed there could be a case for this river existing - but there isn't.
It's true that some Biblical places are lost to us (such as a rock in the desert [what a desperate argument). EVERY city, place and artifact in the BoM is missing. The BoM is sinking sand.
spotsbunch 2 years ago 2
In fact, there is more evidence that the BoM is true than there is evidence it is not. There are things in the BoM Joseph Smith could not have known, such as names that come from the Middle East, while he had no contact or knowledge of the area. Just one example of hundreds. Oh... and I am NOT a Mormon. I think their doctrine is twisted. But the BoM is a 2nd testament of Jesus Christ.
tritonops 2 years ago
Preaching "another gospel" means something completely different. The Book of Mormon teaches the gospel of Christ.. it's the same Gospel as the Bible. Gospel does not mean Bible. Look Gospel in the dictionary. There is only 1 definition that could possibly preclude the BoM, but if you do that, then you have to discount the Old Testament as well.
tritonops 2 years ago
Galations 1: 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
Matthew 24:3-5 And Jesus answered and said to them: Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, I am the Christ, and will deceive many.
metallipat 3 years ago 10
ha ha NOOB! do you honestly believe that history would remember these places as Lehi named them? ha ha, you anti-mormons used to be intelligent!
afdlbassmaster23 3 years ago
Ha ha idiot! Do you really believe Lehi ever existed? You are so lame to believe in these Joseph Smith fantasies!
zamolkses 3 years ago 2
Lulz.
afz902k 3 years ago
This video made me laugh (sorry LOL) because it's so ridiculous. Lehi in the BoM (in the old world) named valleys and rivers for themselves not anyone else. It's painfully obvious if you just read it. This guy went all the way over to Jerusalem to make himself look and sound like a fool.
revelations146 3 years ago
Man that's for sure......
TheBackyardProfessor 3 years ago
DID JESUS APPEAR TO SMITH?
Jesus said not to believe those who claim that He has shown up before the second coming. Matt 24:23 " Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or ' There He is,' do not believe him. 24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
digestezine 3 years ago
Amen to that.
deconomou 3 years ago
Amen to that.
deconomou 3 years ago
26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them. 27 " For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. NASU
digestezine 3 years ago
Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
the LDS teach that the man ressurects his wife and his celestial wives where they will have their own planet, and the man will be a god
digestezine 3 years ago
Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
digestezine 3 years ago
The LDS teaches that they will be gods, they also teach that God the Father who they call Eloheim lives on a planet near a star called Kolob with his wives. they teach that God the Father had a Father and Mother too, and his father had a mother and father
digestezine 3 years ago
I seen one LDS apologist tried to torture the word "TABASCO" to mean bountiful. if it were not so sinful it would be hilarious
digestezine 3 years ago
SIX DEGREES OF SEPERATION
Joseph smith knew Oliver Cowdery who attended a church pastored by Eathan Smith who wrote a book about Indians being Hebrew
digestezine 3 years ago
Joseph Smith and Cowdery were distant cousins and both closely associated with Sigmond Rigby who stole Solomon Spalding's book from which they wrote the book of mormon. The whole thing is plagerized and they consider it from God. LOL.
deconomou 3 years ago
SIX DEGREES OF SEPERATION
Eathan Smith knew Solomon Spaulding who wrote a book about Indians being Hebrews
digestezine 3 years ago
SIX DEGREES OF SEPERATION
According to Solomon Spauldings wife, Spaulding wrote 2 manuscripts, one of the manuscripts had the word "mormon" in it
digestezine 3 years ago
That's funny stuff. Some people will write and say just about anything to discredit the BoM. Funny thing is you believe everything you wrote down and none of it was researched on your own. It's all came from anti-Mormon propaganda. You can learn from the horse's mouth or the other end. You choose the later.
revelations146 3 years ago
SIX DEGREES OF SEPERATION
Some scholars have theorized that Smith became familiar with the name "Moroni" through his study of the treasure-hunting stories of Captain William Kidd.[2] Because Kidd was said to have buried treasure in the Comoros islands, and Moroni is the name of the capital city and largest settlement in the Comoros, it has been suggested that Smith borrowed the name of the settlement and applied it to the angel who led him to buried treasure—the golden plates
digestezine 3 years ago
SIX DEGREES OF SEPERATION
Complementing this proposal is the theory that Smith borrowed the names of the Comoros islands and applied them to the hill where he found the golden plates, which he named Cumorah
digestezine 3 years ago
SIX DEGREES OF SEPERATION
TEST JOSEPH SMITH/ google Zelph and the Prophet Onandagus, I am very familiar with New York, Onandaga is a county in New York, he took the Name Onandaga , tweaked it a little and made up a name for a Prophet
digestezine 3 years ago
SIX DEGEES OD SEPERATION
In the Book of Mormon, he took the name "Angola", there is a Angola NY, named by the Quakers in 1820 for their missionary work in Angola Africa, THINK, why would the word "ANGOLA" appear in the Book of Mormon, it si not an ancient African name nor is it Hebrew or Egyptian
digestezine 3 years ago
SIX DEGREES OF SEPERATION
in the Book of Mormon is the "Land of Minon" in New York not far from Joseph Smith's home in Palmyra New York is Minon, named after the Minonion Indians
digestezine 3 years ago
SIX DEGREES OF SEPERATION
in the Book of Mormon is the Hill Onidah, in New York there is Oneida Hill which has a castle
digestezine 3 years ago
THINK! in that time and era there were numerous books, newspaper articles etc that talked about Indians being the Lost Tribes of Israel, there were numerous books about the holy land and Arabia. did you check Onandagus and Onandaga, too many coincidences
digestezine 3 years ago
this is dump. studying geography tells you that rivers change , dissapear and it has been a few thousand years.
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
Why has the LDS church spent millions trying to find the BOM lands but in reality they have found nothing, NOTHING. they have not found bountiful, they are grasping at straws, the Indians did not speak Hebrew, Egyptian, they have found no Hebrew or Egyptian writing, the Indians had no Hebrew or Egyptian customs
digestezine 3 years ago
they have loads of supporting evidence actuall there s a documentary about ti call exploring the lands of the book of mormon and there is very convincng evidence. i feel bad for saf losers who have made this video to try and disprove it thats far worse. in my opinion they should stop TRYING to shatter peoples faiths especially when it harms no one but instead teaches good christian attributes. go and find somethign better to do with yoru time.
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
There is as much evidence for and truth in the book of Mormon as there is in the rest of the bible. i.e. none. Get over it, guys, it's all fairy tales.
bfderef 4 years ago
word up
mathewheldman 4 years ago
LHVM: You are willing to use scientific evidence disproving stories in the Book of Mormon (e.g., the lack of geological evidence for a "River Laman") to criticize the LDS religion. Will you accept scientific evidence disproving stories from the bible? Or do you only accept science when it supports yoour religious beliefs?
growherbs 4 years ago
THINK! why did the LDS church blink and take a step backwards from the Indians being Hebrew,
For over 150 years they taught that Indians were of the Hebrew tribes, no ifs ands or buts
digestezine 3 years ago
actually, Mormon scholars have challenged that view almost from the beginning; the Apostle James Talmage challenged this.
jacoblevi 3 years ago
also...dont try to prove your own beliefs with your own beliefs, youve got to come to where i stand, the book of mormon cannot stand as proof of itself. use the bible to show me where it says that jesus is the brother of satan.... look in the bible and show me where it says that god is flesh and bone.... you do that and ill show you where it says that he is spirit, he is invisible, no man can see him and live.
joshinboise 4 years ago
"dont try to prove your own beliefs with your own beliefs"--but isn't this what every anti-Mormon is attempting to do? You have been presented with admirable evidence that the earth cannot be 6000 years old, and that humans evolved from lower life forms, and yet refuse to believe it because a book in their Bible which they claim is revelation says that the earth is 6000 years old! How is this different from what Mormon's do?
jacoblevi 3 years ago
i wish i could say something here that has not already been said. the book of mormon is and always will be a fraud. the only archeologists that have found any evidence of horses in the americas have been discredited, or are not real archaeologists to begin with. i do pray that one day you will pray to the "one" true god taht he will remove the scales from your eyes that you may see.
joshinboise 4 years ago
Doesn't seem like the Mormons know much
FirebrandNIRE 4 years ago
Mormon missionaries use the same ploys as advertisements you might see on the TV.
You should believe Mormonism because "more and more people are doing it!", or "this really neat, famous person is doing it!" or, "One guy swears by it and I heard he was on his deathbed!"
Rubbish! Every new Mormon should get the "hear no evil, see no evil" monkey statue when they finally decide to buy!
antigrav777 4 years ago
Wrong. If you read the BOM (which I don't recommend, but if you do) you'll see 1 Nephi 2:8 says "he called the name of the river, Laman, and it emptied into the Red Sea; and the valley was in the borders near the mouth thereof."
fairwhether1 4 years ago
This is a GREAT video.
Good stuff!
theTRUTHgroup 4 years ago
It is of GREAT concern for all LDS members that the BofM has to be true. I know many former members that have left the LDS faith because they themselves search for defiant answers to the truism of Joseph smith and the BofM. Polygamy, racism, and changing of church doctrines does not help the church in proving its truthfulness.
uSoBayArea 4 years ago
There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is never mentioned in the video.
saxmanmatt 4 years ago
Read the dead sea scrolls.
savdbygrce 4 years ago
THIS IS INSANE:
the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit.
The Trinity, actual official doctrine of many churches
bjalder26 4 years ago
Read Gen 1:26, Isa 6:8, then read John 10:30. See what you want is to make God in your image so you can understand him, but there are some things that we right now in our present state cannot understand about God. The Trinity is not that hard to understand if you actually read and understand The Bible.
savdbygrce 4 years ago
Oops, somebody found a river. Guess you should do some research before posting on youtube.
Just google: jeff lindsay valley lemuel
bjalder26 4 years ago
THIS IS INSANE:
Joseph Smith, Jr. -- "I will prove that the world is wrong, by showing what God is. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea. You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another. I know more than all the world."
-King Follett Discourse, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, pp. 3-4
SethAdamJohnson 4 years ago
Nice try but is this Mormon an Archeologist? Or a Geologist, nope. Just another Mormon try to prove that the LIES by Joe are true, boy Satan tries this eveyday. I read The Bible it is a true history book. The BOM is a fraud, and so is Joe Jr.
savdbygrce 4 years ago
VOSCD -- I joyfully announce this as Victory Over Socal aka Titan day.
He will no longer trouble good non-Mormons by riding his menacing Toxin-Belching Phallus Skycycle around YouTube -- dropping obscene loads of rubbish into threads.
He Now Posts Exclusively at the BYU Castro Street Blog.
Let the Church Bells Ring!!!
LibertyYooTube 4 years ago
This is Stupid, it prooves nothing.
kokaubeamblues 4 years ago
editor2325: It does not. The Bible says that the Earth is 6000 years old. Geologically, we know that it is billions of years old. The Bible says that at one point in time the Earth was entirely flooded. There is no geological evidence of this.
CrapOfTheWorld 4 years ago
The dating system used to determine the earth's age as billions of years old is useless and based on assumptions...any scientist who knows what they are talking about and not intentionally lying to you knows this...unfortunately people don't want there to be a God because that would mean rules...ignoring a fact doesn't change it.
MuffinTheMan 4 years ago
In contrast there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Mr. Smith, while perhaps honestly trying to help people, didn't have enough revelation from God to let him know that there weren't horses in ancient America. He also thought that the Jacobean English of the KJ bible was the "language of his time" and apparently ancient Americans wrote in the style of 1820s romantics. I think at best he was a well meaning man of wisdom, at worst he was a power/fame hungry fraud.
leereever 4 years ago
Archaeologists have found many evidences of horses on the american continent on temple walls of the aztec and mayan people.
mejangtami 4 years ago
if so, then why are mormon apologist at byu and elsewhere trying to imply that maybe the word for horse in the bom might mean a deer ?So these great mormon warriors with armour and swords and shields were riding DEER????
digestezine 4 years ago 2
God speaks through his word (scripture according to James) you are asking that I believe that God must "speak" to me by a gut feeling. Let us hypothesize that the BoM is false... just suppose okay. If I told you that if you really listened to God he would tell you it was true, and that if you felt it wasn't true then you were wrong... how would you feel? You are not offering a real choice or proof.
leereever 4 years ago
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
If God doesn't answer prayers, how can we know the truth of anything. If you shouldn't turn to God for wisdom, who should you turn to?
Why are people so scared of other people reading the Book of Mormon if it is so obviously false?
bjalder26 4 years ago
The Book of Mormon isn't fiction. Study it, study the bible, pray about it. If you feel you receive an answer that it is not true, don't believe it. If you receive an answer that it is true, then believe it. Don't let somebody else (besides God) tell you what you should believe.
bjalder26 4 years ago
bjalder How can you pray to know if something is fiction or not ? Ok my name is kevin and I'm from England and I attend LDS church .Can you pray to know if what I've told is fiction or would you find out the more obvious way ? The BOM is a fraud perpetrated by a DAVID KORESH style cult leader who brought death and misery to his followers .
ElderJoseph 4 years ago
bjalder26
The Book of Mormon isn't fiction.
Every American archeologist would beg to differ with you, bozo.
LibertyYooTube 4 years ago
You just said, "Don't let somebody else (besides God) tell you what you should believe."...but yet, you told us to pray about the BOM and only believe the answer we receive if the answer is that it is true...hmm...tell me again why I should let you tell me what I should believe...??? ;)
fairwhether1 4 years ago
Is it NECESSARY for the BoM to be a literal history? If I came from a Mormon tradition, I would propose that while the BoM is clearly a work of fiction, it still may hold some valuable insights into the human character and relationship with God. This would mirror the Anglican view of the Apocrypha or other extra-canonical scriptures.
leereever 4 years ago
leereever: God does not lie. If you take the Bible to be the Word of God, you can test it, archeologically, historically, scientifically. IT HOLDS UP TO THE TEST.
Because is God's revelation. And it is TRUE.
If all cities, peoples, events, etc in the BOM are falsa, how could you say it is revelation from God?
God CANNOT lie.
editor2325 4 years ago
Again, with all due respect, this is just one of the many many things that have to be stretched to believe the BoM account. The DNA, archeology, linguistics, rhetoric, and culture proposed by the BoM do not match those of either ancient America or ancient Judaic culture. It does, however, closely match those of the 19th century.
leereever 4 years ago
Nope, I don't buy it. That is spin-doctoring, something your church has an entire organization set up for. & don't be trite & tell me to pray about it, that's a catch 22. A no win. If I say I have prayed about it & I arrive at a different conclusion, you say I didn't pray with a pure heart or with true intent. Stock answer. Catch 22.
Do a more in depth research on the BoM, & don't depend entirely on FARMS & FAIR as your source.
anon4anon 4 years ago
Oops, somebody found a river. Guess you should do some research before posting on youtube.
Just google: jeff lindsay valley lemuel
bjalder26 4 years ago
With all due respect, what was found was a valley that fit the description of the Valley of Lemuel. No person living in that area has ever referred to it by that name. That doesn't PROVE that there is no such place, but that's what they are pointing to here.
leereever 4 years ago
Well I cant post any URL's, but just do a good google search and search fair lds.
There are many wadis that can get quites large at times wich bring sediment and water into the red sea. The fact that this is all one sided saddens me. You can never prove the BoM is false. I have recieved my witness and even if I couldnt find a counter for your attacks I would still believe. Also how would Joe Smith know about the oasis in the desert that they called bountiful?
vinny1575 4 years ago
About bountiful...where is that again? Please, think about what you've said! What about people who have prayed and received affirmation that a different religion is true yet they have no proof? Why do you trust your feeling over theirs? Why are you right and they not? Christianity has proof! BOM does not!
fairwhether1 4 years ago
WELL, I guess It's EITHER THE RED SEA as a sea of something else..cause the Red Sea don't have to be literally the Red Sea...Just a stupid name..it could be another sea that the BOM was talking about. Screw it.
vval2l2eiv 4 years ago
"The only flaws exist in the Book of Mormon. An entire civilization cannot die out and leave NOTHING behind as proof of their existence. Mormons who are aware of these flaws and continue to believe in the truth of the BOM are just plain ignorant." Well said, deconomou.
MIApologetics 4 years ago
There are evidences. Do a search. The indians, the myans , the olmecs are the remnant. search fair lds.
vinny1575 4 years ago
sorry but wake there was still be some sign of historical artifacts and some prove of its existence i am sorry but your joseph smith made up the book of mormon lol.
BrimstoneEFire 4 years ago
well that would be more amazing than an angel visiting the boy who couldnt write and he had a 3rd grade education. Look into it please. Pray about it aswell my friend
vinny1575 4 years ago
Have *you* looked into it? Smith did not write. He put his seer stone in a hat, buried his face in the hat, and dictated what he saw to those who then wrote what he told them. This has been testified to by the "witnesses" in the BOM and well documented. The BOM may be inspired, but that inspiration did not come from God.
fairwhether1 4 years ago
it makes no sence because laman was beheaded by nephi so why have fucking river named by him if god wanted him dead so badly that is why joseph smith is a fuckin story teller bravo joseph smith you cast my vote lol.
BrimstoneEFire 4 years ago
that would be laban with a -b-. laman was his brother.
vinny1575 4 years ago
No, no he wasnt. Laman was not killed by anyone. Get your facts straight mate.
mejangtami 4 years ago
yeah lamen didnt have his head cut off that was laban
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
Laman never existed so don't even worry about it.
deconomou 3 years ago
Any one that still believes in the book of Mormon after viewing th Living Hope Ministries videos and does additional research, just WANTS to believe it true like the people who would aquire teachers to have their ears tickled.
nashaunconwell 4 years ago
The only flaws exist in the Book of Mormon. An entire civilization cannot die out and leave NOTHING behind as proof of their existence. Mormons who are aware of these flaws and continue to believe in the truth of the BOM are just plain ignorant.
deconomou 4 years ago
i pity you
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
Why? Because I don't follow the heretic Joseph Smith? The liar, adulterer, con-artist and convicted criminal? Keep your pity to yourself.
deconomou 3 years ago
jesus was a convicted criminal dosnt stop him being any less devine. and yes i do pity you because if you need to try and discredit the church to feel good then you have problems
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
Jesus was convicted in an illegal court (middle of the night, no judge) for claiming to be God, which he was.
Joseph Smith was convicted of Glass Looking and fraud. He was also charged with starting a fraudulent bank which he avoided by fleeing in the middle of the night.
I discredit the church because I'm sick of your 60,000 missionaries knocking on our doors and spreading lies.
LDS is a cult. No doubt about it. So shut your mouth and go do your Freemason temple rituals.
deconomou 3 years ago
well im sorry you feel that way. we obviously have different ideas about jesus christ hevenly father and the holy ghost and also the prophets on the earth. i imagine we wont come to any agreement. but to all those that do read this i would encourage you to read the book of mormon for yourselves and pray sincearly about it.
if this is the so called church of the devil and is a cult as this guy says and if god wants us to be happy he will make it known to you agreed? but if it is truth....
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
There's no "if". Your church does not teach truth...PERIOD. It's just another organization that's there in an effort to control people and take 10% of their money. The church is worth Billions and they use it to destroy people who leave the church and find truth.
deconomou 3 years ago
the use it to help poverty stricken countrys. none of the bishops or people who have callings are paid. so its not as if they get the money. and i testyify that blessings come greatly to those who do pay 10% fully i knwo in my life its blessed me greatly.
our church teaches that we should be like jesus are you saying that that isnt truth ? does yoru church teach we shouldnt be like jesus ? and as far as i knwo the church has not destroyed anyone
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
Yes, and being like Jesus means teaching what He taught. He did not teach that you would become a God. He also taught us to stay away from FALSE PROPHETS who are wolves that come in sheep's clothing. Joseph Smith is the epitomy of a false prophet. He lied, embezzled money, was involved in cult-like worship and killed two men before being shot in Carthage. All those positive things you mentioned are done by Biblical Christians too. You don't need the LDS Church to do those things.
deconomou 3 years ago
well i think the differnce between me an dyou is i have faith and you claim i am living in ignorance. but the truth is i have felt the holy ghost TESTIFY to me that being a LDS is the right thing to do and dont think that im a ignorant person in my human nature and my questions have been confirmed to me .
the truth comes from personal prayer and seeking for truth and i have discovered it. im sorry that obviously annoys some people but thats my life and the life of 13 million other people
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
If you are insisting I don't have faith, think again. I am a devout Christian and I don't appreciate your missionaries going around and telling people they are Christian when they are not.
You "know" it's right simply because you WANT it to be right. LDS theology very easy to disprove through both religious and non-religious things.
You claim to believe the Bible so read Proverbs 28:26 and Jeremiah 17:9 and then tell me if you should listen to your heart.
deconomou 3 years ago
we are christian we teach christian beliefs and im sorry i know for a fact that a worthy latter day saint lives more worthily than any other christain faith. id find it hard to find a place where people do not drink or smoke and have good strong family values centered around the love of christ. and we also have a belief that we have the priesthood ordained by god.
im starting to realise that we just wont be able to agree on this and to be honest i dont knwo why i evened responded.
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
all the early LDS drank and some smoked, including Joseph Smith, Bringham Young even owned a bar and a distillery, easy to check out
digestezine 3 years ago
until god gave him revelation that said it was wrong you forget prophets of old have made mistakes jona for example joseph smith was a wounderful man i didnt say he was perfect.
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
that, my friend, was before they started the word of wisdom, maybe YOU should check that out.
afdlbassmaster23 3 years ago
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. We are under the new covenant, no polygamy, Joseph Smith not only married other woman , he also took other men's wives.
digestezine 3 years ago
Christ never said anything one way or the other about polygamy, but chastised MEN for divorcing WIVES for "any cause"--meaning whatever reason they saw fit; this is a cultural indictment, not a pronouncement of doctrine; the doctrine is the importance of marriage, mentioned twice earlier-Matt 5:32 and 19:6-both times specifying the wrongness of ending marriage--no divorce.
ALSO: 1 Cor 11:11; Gen. 2:24
None of this, of course, proves anything.
jacoblevi 3 years ago
yes, he married other women. No, he did not marry other men's wives.
afdlbassmaster23 3 years ago
Look up Lucinda Pendleton Morgan Harris Smith. Or Zina Huntington Jacobs. In fact, why don't you just look at Presendia Huntington Buell
Sylvia Sessions Lyon
Mary Rollins Lightner
Patty Bartlett Sessions
Marinda Johnson Hyde
Elizabeth Davis Durfee
Sarah Kingsley Cleveland
Ruth Vose Sayers
and Elvira Cowles Holmes
THEN tell me that Joseph Smith's marrying other women who were already married never happened.
Marshmallowus 2 years ago 11
Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
the LDS teach that the man ressurects his wife and his celestial wives where they will have their own planet, and the man will be a god
digestezine 3 years ago
this is not what we teach this is twisted lies with some truth. we are taught we will have what are heavenly father haves if we are faithful like what every father would want for his children.
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
evidently you are not being told everything, milk before meat as the lds says
digestezine 3 years ago
what? You aren't even close. don't try jumping in.
afdlbassmaster23 3 years ago
yeah, not much Mormons can answer there, except that if Joseph was a prophet, and the Lord did reveal to him that marriage is forever, that commandment supersedes this, just as the Gospel superseded the Law, and if you are justified in disbelieving based on this scripture, every Jew, Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist is justified in disbelieving you Christ's message based on their scriptures.
God has always sent prophets; how do we know which one (or ones) are right?
Wasn't that Joseph's question?
jacoblevi 3 years ago
and as far as missionaries go . in 3 months im leaving on my mission and im going to spread the gospel which such veroscity and eagerness becasue i know that being a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints is the only way back to our heavenly father and i know that is a bold statement but i belive it to be more true than anything else in my life.
i love the church i love what it stands for and the fact that people appose it so much just strengthens my testimony of its truth
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
Pro 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered
I hope you serve your mission in "Onandaga county" new york, so it will remind you of Joseph Smith making up the name "Onandagus" in the story of zelph , you will also notice he used a lot of New York names in the BOM too
digestezine 3 years ago
so your saying its wrong to have faith? and this scripture reference is refering to people who are prideful and are trusting in there stubborness not in there faith i suggest you look more closely
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
yes i suggest you look more closely
digestezine 3 years ago
Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
The LDS teaches that Nephites white skin color changed to darkskin because of sin, they also teach that black africans have the curse of cain in the Pearl of Great price
digestezine 3 years ago
in many scriptures in in the old testiment the seed of peopel have been cursed for there iniquities. this is a common thing throughout the bible.
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
where does it state in the Bible that cain was cursed with Black skin ? or Ham or caanan ? the mark on cains forehead was the letter Tau (the shape of the cross) Christ was cursed for our sins, He took our place
digestezine 3 years ago
Wow. . .absolutely NO proof for that!
jacoblevi 3 years ago
Isa 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye [are] gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold [it] together. Isa 41:24 Behold, ye [are] of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination [is he that] chooseth you
the LDS declare that they have prophets and that they will be gods
digestezine 3 years ago
we have prophets why wouldnt we have prophets god loves us and he love dteh peopel from the old testiment they had prophets. why wouldnt god want us to have a prophet who can guide us and teach the gospel in its full truth.
we belive that we can become like are heavenly father providing we are faithful and obediant. wouldnt you want your children to have everything good that you have?
thebittersweetmyke1 3 years ago
Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart
Joseph Smith, Bringham Young made many false prophecies
digestezine 3 years ago
The church is the only true church in the world. You can find your answer by yourself.
Ask the Lord if the book of mormon is true, and He will answer you in your heart by the power of the Holy ghost. It's simple and everybody can do it, because our heavenly Father do not make any distinctions between us.
auntisa 3 years ago
So everybody who reads the BoM gets what? - a subjective feeling which you pray for? and if it doesn't happen - it's your fault. This is an argument that mormons can't lose,muslims are also convinced that the truth of the koran is obvious to anyone who reads it with sincerity and, I suppose the adherents of every 'holy book' in the world. As archaeology, DNA, linguistics, geography & anthropology utterly disprove it I can't read it with any feeling other than contempt for a transparent heresy.
Estaban333 3 years ago
Hi,
So if you don't want to read the book, you didn't find anything real,do not believe in anything. Why so much interest in our religion for nothing?
auntisa 3 years ago
I didn't say that I hadn't read it, I told you what I feel when I do!
Estaban333 3 years ago
Oh Sorry, I misunderstood you.
When I first read the book of mormon, I wasn't impressed, but I confess that I felt peace in my heart. I let the simple things guide me in a way that I didn't want to complicate things with my reasons. So it happened in very special way.Just read the book an pay attention to your feelings.let me know which chapter you are reading, maybe I can help you.
my e-mail: perderes@hotmail.com
auntisa 3 years ago
I know that God loves us. He allows us to exercise our moral agency even when we misuse it. He permits us to make our own decisions.
Christ cannot help us if we do not trust Him; He cannot teach us if we do not serve Him. He will not force us to do what's right, but He will show us the way only when we decide to serve Him. Certainly, for us to serve in His kingdom, Christ requires that we experience a change of thought and attitude.
auntisa 3 years ago
Aunti, it is NOT that anyone is not trusting Jesus. Jesus is fine. It's JosephsMYTH that we freely question. It is our DUTY to test all "spirits". That is what this process is all about. If HE (Christ) "permits us to make our own decisions", why the venom expressed by LDS when we have made OUR decision to grill Mormons as to the legitimacy or their docrine and history?
1MoNoMo 3 years ago
After all, polygamy, magic underpanties, the payment of CK fees and secret temple names and handshakes are all required (by Mormons)
to "get into heaven". You don't see this in any way, as something really, really weird--something that SHOULD be torn apart and thoroughly examined?? Why does it offend Mormons when we do that? It not only violates (seemingly) scriptural precedents (even your own), as well as widely accepted standards of reason.
1MoNoMo 3 years ago
you don't sound like a devout Christian, going around telling people they aren't Christian when they are. . .
jacoblevi 3 years ago
What is the defintion of christian to you? because to me it is anyone who follows christ. now I am not a mormon, and do not plan on becoming one, but to discredit their religion is cruel, especially when they haven't done anything to you.
afdlbassmaster23 3 years ago
Although Mormons are usually friendly and kind people, they are deceived by a false religion that distorts the nature of God, the Person of Jesus Christ, and the means of salvation. Therefore, if they say they follow Christ, then they would trust and obey His Word and the warnings he gives us (Gal 1:6-9, Deut 13:1-5, 1 John 4:1, & others) and turn from the lies of Joseph Smith's LDS church.
Christians are commanded to contend for the faith. Jude 1:3 and to cast down imaginations. 1 Cor 10:3-5
johnyjamie 2 years ago
I'm sorry, but to me that's like not telling the Germans living under the Nazi regime that Hitler was lying to them. Truth should always be known, and you shouldn't be making decisions of faith without the facts. If I had the ability to stop Charles Manson or Jim Jones from deceiving those people, I would do it. We have that ability with the lds church, and we should do it.
carlasue88 2 years ago
"Joseph Smith was convicted of Glass Looking and fraud" for which he deserved to be killed by a mob? And how do you know Christ was God? Just because he said so? Jews and Muslims would have a problem with that logic, I think.
jacoblevi 3 years ago