VLADIMIR DE PACHMANN or PACHMAN (27 July 1848 – 6 January 1933) was a pianist of Russian-German ethnicity, especially noted for performing the works of Chopin, and also for his eccentric on-stage style.
According to Harold C. Schoenberg he was considered a buffoon and a no good piano player, unable to be taken seriously, but this is far from the truth. Schoenberg judged him by his late recordings, but they do not give any true picture of the pianist Pachmann had once been. Pachmann himself loathed his recordings and told people to buy them and smash them.
He was born in Odessa, Russia in 1848 and such was his talent that he was sent to Vienna to study with Tausig's pupil Joseph Dachs and at the same time he took lessons in theory with Anton Bruckner.
Then came his debut and extensive tours - until suddenly he came to hear Liszt's greatest pupil ever, Carl Tausig playing in person. For Pachmann this came as a chock and realizing his own limitations he withdrew from the public for 6 years trying to perfect his art.
Most of the time was spent in Italy including one year in Florence where he worked with Vera Kologrivoff Rubio (1816-1880) who had been Chopin's last assistant, and she imparted upon him the style that had been Chopin's own. Thus he was able to return to the concert platform in 1882 (Budapest) now hailed as a true virtuoso.
During his last years Pachmann was by some considered nothing but a clown - but what is wrong both to Pachmann and to great clowns. In fact I would rather call him the Groucho Marx of the piano and that is indeed something - but of course it had nothing to do with his career as a highly respected and successful piano virtuoso years before. But he sure was funny - and people would come to his concerts just to see and hear what he would do that night.
There was no need to pity the old man - he was not a pathetic character whose actions were determined by some kind of dementia. He knew very well that he could no longer compete with the great and decided to make the most out of it. Any way he had always had something of a Victor Borge in him and in fact Borge borrowed some of his best tricks.
At one concert Pachmann deliberately ran into a struggle with the stool. He fiddled with the screws - raising it and then lowering it until he gave up, rushed into the wings and came back with a large book. That didn't work either, so Pachmann tore out one single page and sat down - Ahh - now he was comfortable. (This trick was one that Victor Borge borrowed much later).
Once during a London recital Pachmann crouched over the keyboard trying to hide his hands while playing one of his great stunts: Chopin's Minute Waltz arranged in thirds. And then he said to the audience. Vy do I do zis? - because I zee in ze owdience mein alte freund Moritz Rosenthal, and I doon't want him to copy my fingering.
@MrGer2295 Thanks for your wounderful explanations. Vladimir Pachman was absolutly great. He was able to laugh about himself. Her was a very great Chopin Interprete and his humour ist awesome
But Pachmann got his own laughs. At a concert he suddenly pulled out a sock and told the audience that it was one of Chopin's socks - knitted by George Sand. And then he hung it on the piano for the rest of the recital. Harold C. Schoenberg tells this story but he forgot to tell the rest of it: the next day a journalist visited the pianist and they had a hearty laughter together when Pachmann told him, that - of course - the sock was his own.
ut Pachmann got his own laughs. At a concert he suddenly pulled out a sock and told the audience that it was one of Chopin's socks - knitted by George Sand. And then he hung it on the piano for the rest of the recital. Harold C. Schoenberg tells this story but he forgot to tell the rest of it: the next day a journalist visited the pianist and they had a hearty laughter together when Pachmann told him, that - of course - the sock was his own.
Pachmann made a lot of money on his concerts and he spent them on his other great passion: diamonds and other precious stones - and - like Liberace, many years later - he would bring them on to the stage and show them to the audience. But when he had shown them and the audience had acknowledged their beauty, he would tell them, that they would now forget all about them, for when he played they would experience colors far more beautiful than what they had just seen.
Most of his colleagues got nervous ticks every time they saw Pachmann in the audience, because they never knew what might happen. At a recital where Busoni was playing, Pachmann rushed to the stage holding Busoni's arm up like a boxing referee declaring the winner - saying: Busoni grösster Bach-Spieler - Pachmann grösster Chopin-Spieler (Busoni is the greatest Bach-player - Pachmann the greatest Chopin-player).
The same with Godowsky - at a recital Pachmann rushed to the stage interrupting a piece by Chopin saying. No, no Leopold - you moost play it like zis afterwards telling the audience that he would not have given this advice to anyone, but Godowsky iz ze zecund greatest lifving pianist. In fact Pachmann claimed that Liszt after a recital had jumped to his feet and told the audience: this is the way Chopin played.
But - on the other hand - the same Godowsky was once asked by a colleague whether he thought it would be worth going to a recital by the elderly Pachmann, and the great pianist answered, I'll tell you, if he plays for one minute the way he used to, it will be worthwhile being miserable for the rest of the recital.
Indeed during his prime Pachmann gained the respect not only of Godowsky but also that of Liszt, and many other great pianists. At his best he had a wonderful singing tone, a completely natural ability to turn a phrase and a sound instinct for musical form (and with the years a strange technique - playing with his hands flat - as seen on the picture above).
So while Schoenberg and others were laughing at him, the professionals and his colleagues remembered him as a great pianist - a miniaturist - like Joseffy - but a true virtuoso, being almost unsurpassed in the nocturnes of Chopin.
But don't get me wrong. I still find Harold C. Schoenberg's The great Pianists a wonderful book, but it is wise to remember the words of the great Danish cello player of the wonderful Copenhagen String Quartet, Asger Lund Christiansen who once during an interview said: Critics tend to forget, that they are not part of musical life - they are just observers. Where Sir Thomas Beecham took a far more grim view.
Just to set the record straight, the original nitrate film was kept by Reginald Reynolds, the Aeolian Company's Duo-Art recording producer in London, who appears in the film. When Reynolds died in the 1950s, it ended up with his daughters, latterly the younger one, Yvonne Hinde-Smith. Yvonne passed it to the Player Piano Group, and Gerald Stonehill arranged for several copies to be made, and so it has survived. The original film is silent, and the order of the scenes is different.
On the subject of piano rolls - they are often very good when produced by people who know what they're doing but in recent years the releases have been pretty bad. Listen to the 1966 Argo Lhevinne rolls - absolutely superb; then listen to the Newport Classics 1990s release of the SAME rolls - they're an appalling hack job and a slander on Lhevinne's name. Apart from other considerations (proper maintenance of the reproducer, for instance) the operator has to know and set the correct tempo.
@gtimny YES - I agree - With reproducing piano performances, it's all about the condition of the reproducing piano. When well maintained (and tuned), these pianos are capable of stunning life-like performances. Another factor is the condition of the roll, which can vary depending on provenance. Most original rolls are now over 80 yrs old. There are some excellent examples of recently restored Duo-Art and Ampico reproducing piano performances on Youtube.
I suspect that Pachmann became a little crazy as he got older. I've heard performances of his that I thought were wonderful, but this isn't one of them. I'm not opposed to rubato, but it has to make sense and this performance loses the thread of the melody almost immediately. He didn't always sound like this.
Performers signed their piano roles once they approved the production. There are in existence some roles of early pianists who improvised upon the piano for pracitce but never released the roles for sale.
Louiu - Can you please cite the source of this film; who's possession was it before it was digitized, or, from whom did you receive the digitized movie?
Well what a gem .we see a little of how Depachmann sat moved at piano . didn't know there was anything in film .Well one more testament.generation so many have tried to wash over.the problem s 1 needs authentic era imagination to add or rythmicize chopin. Koczalski,Depach,Sauer,Rosenthal etc can tell us ( Hofmann Rach Lhevinne rubinstein tradition is differ.) Siloti ? any moskowski recordings ?I think my gener s afraid.The music doesnt belong to us enug to make it new.
well there is only one single piano roll recording i ever appreciated; that is scriabin playing his own etude op8,no12, where it's really mad and improvisatory.
4. I doubt there is a conspiracy to denigrate older performance aesthetics. Some things seem like a conspiracy because lazy critics parrot earlier opinions rather than trying to listen with fresh ears. Also, at least from many of the comments by younger people on YouTube, it seems many people are crazy for high-speed digital dexterity, with interpretation not much a consideration -- or are the unimaginative but fast performances that abound today shaping such values?
3. Of course, musical taste and preference are subjective, not absolute. I love the older, freer performances, but these abound also in old discs, not just rolls. Try listening to the Josef Hoffman recordings on VAI and Marston, or the mysterious mazurka rhythms of Friedman. Contrariwise, some older performers on roll and disc were also quite metronomic.
Oh, I see what you are referring to. No, I am well aware of the "machine age" mentality of critics and so on who prized mentronomic, accurate, fast, and unfortunately often soulless performances. It was the era that placed Toscanini above most other conductors, for example. I was referring to present-day tastes. No conflict here!
Dear Em,To know that you know,what you've said here fills me full of Joy.You are 1 more rare person, who hasn't been talked out of his senses by the incessant propaganda and thought conditioning emanating from the conservatory gulags,and establish-
Sure, "conservatory gulags" and "establishment thugs" are easy targets, yet you meekly retreat from slaughtering the pretentious revanchist blood-drinking bottom-feeding capitalist stooge-poseurs and their running-dog jackal-hyena plutocrat-hooligans of ruling falangist classes!
2. But, comparing existing piano rolls with actual recorded discs by the same artists (even made during the same periods of their lives) reveals noticable differences. E.g., disc-recorded Rachmaninoff performances have much more rhythmic punch than the sonically gorgeous Window in Time stuff. Some performers sound impeccable on roll but drop notes left and right on their discs.
1. Mr Smith, I am grateful for the existence of piano rolls by performers (and of performances) we would not otherwise have. Also, the best-recorded ones sound really great on well-maintained equipment recorded with modern techniques. The big advantage for rolls is the length of performance was not limited to around 4 minutes, like the pre-LP discs.
This is the Reginald Reynolds film, the UK Aeolian Company pianola demonstrator and Duo-Art recording assistant. Nice to see it with music. It's thought the film was a UK Aeolian promotional & may have had synchronized sound. Whilst it's pre-Vitaphone there were other early systems in use in the UK at the time so it is all quite possible. Aeolian had a sound department in the UK also (Aeolian Vocalion). Who knows, one day the soundtrack may surface!
I thought it might be Reginald Reynolds, the UK Duo-Art recording assistant. It's too bad that there is so little surviving official documentation of the Aeolian Co. Duo-Art system. Your website is one of the best sources of information.
This is a wonderful film clip. I wonder if it was made by The Aeolian Co. Pachmann recorded for Aeolian Duo-Art. The Duo-Art reproducing player system was the system accepted by Steinway & Sons and was available in S&S pianos from about 1914 to 1935. The Duo-Art system was also available in Weber pianos, a very well respected brand of that time. The upright in the opening scene appears to be a Weber Duo-Art. Duo-Art was known for their extensive classical recording library.
Superb! What a treat to see Pachmann, even if silent -- and with Pachmann's own inimitable recording of Chopin's Impromptu in F-Sharp -- this very recording was the first by Pachmann I ever heard, and fell in love with his playing immediately, some 45+ years ago as a child. Some of his later recordings are kind of sad, but when he was in good condition, his delicate expression and pristine rubato remain unmatched. To think that he was born the year Chopin died! Thanks for this!
The impromptu you hear is recorded from the roll and not very reliable. There is a superb recording of this piece from original 78's (1925) from the Dante-cd "Complete recordings" which is really amazing. Pachmann's style of playing, especially in the nocturnes, comes very close to Chopin's own playing (according to Liszt). Listen to opus 27 nr. 2 with embellishment that could have been improvised by Chopin. They are not "kind of sad" but very important sound-documents.
I didn't know this was from the piano roll, thanks for that information. I have collected every collection of Pachmann's performances I could find, from the LP days, and treasure nearly all his performances. But, the late records when he almost seems like Fats Waller with his comedy patter during performance were the ones I thought were kind of sad. Even when aged, on good days, he was very, very good.
I agree that the best reproduction piano equipment was quite good, but most of the earlier systems failed to record dynamics, which were often added manually later, and were quite easy to tamper with (i.e., edit), unlike all recordings up until tape editing became possible. The better acoustic recordings, in spite of the noise, are sometimes capable of expressing nuances of touch that the rolls generally miss.
It was impossible to tamper with disc recordings. Wax cylinders could be scraped and reused, but not edited. Every disc recording until tape editing became possible represented the actual performance ("warts and all") of a living pianist for the duration of the disc. To get good performances, scrupulous players would record over and over until they had what they wanted on disc -- no editing was possible.
Are you kidding? Look for the film where Rachmaninoff's piano roll of the famous prelude is put next to the audio recordings. Piano rolls are truly awful.
There are similarites of style sure, but piano rolls are totally unreliable as performances. They offer the faintest impression of the how the performance might have sounded. Listen to the lethargic plodding in the left hand. Typical piano roll sounds, without any proper voicing. There is a dead quality to the tone.
Well, I see what you mean, but I've heard few rolls where I felt the timing amounted to something truly 'expressive', when coupled with the plodding lack of dynamics. You can learn from them (by guessing at how it would have sounded), but they do not offer anything that sounds very musical in itself. Even the rhythm isn't completely picked up. They are often very choppy and uneven.
VLADIMIR DE PACHMANN or PACHMAN (27 July 1848 – 6 January 1933) was a pianist of Russian-German ethnicity, especially noted for performing the works of Chopin, and also for his eccentric on-stage style.
Molto Bello!!Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
Pachmann was of the most enigmatic pianists ever - and often misunderstood because of the way he acted and played during his final years.
Molto Bello!!Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
According to Harold C. Schoenberg he was considered a buffoon and a no good piano player, unable to be taken seriously, but this is far from the truth. Schoenberg judged him by his late recordings, but they do not give any true picture of the pianist Pachmann had once been. Pachmann himself loathed his recordings and told people to buy them and smash them.
Molto Bello!!Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
He was born in Odessa, Russia in 1848 and such was his talent that he was sent to Vienna to study with Tausig's pupil Joseph Dachs and at the same time he took lessons in theory with Anton Bruckner.
Molto Bello!!Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
Then came his debut and extensive tours - until suddenly he came to hear Liszt's greatest pupil ever, Carl Tausig playing in person. For Pachmann this came as a chock and realizing his own limitations he withdrew from the public for 6 years trying to perfect his art.
Molto Bello!!Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
Most of the time was spent in Italy including one year in Florence where he worked with Vera Kologrivoff Rubio (1816-1880) who had been Chopin's last assistant, and she imparted upon him the style that had been Chopin's own. Thus he was able to return to the concert platform in 1882 (Budapest) now hailed as a true virtuoso.
Molto Bello!!Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
During his last years Pachmann was by some considered nothing but a clown - but what is wrong both to Pachmann and to great clowns. In fact I would rather call him the Groucho Marx of the piano and that is indeed something - but of course it had nothing to do with his career as a highly respected and successful piano virtuoso years before. But he sure was funny - and people would come to his concerts just to see and hear what he would do that night.
Molto Bello!!Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
There was no need to pity the old man - he was not a pathetic character whose actions were determined by some kind of dementia. He knew very well that he could no longer compete with the great and decided to make the most out of it. Any way he had always had something of a Victor Borge in him and in fact Borge borrowed some of his best tricks.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
At one concert Pachmann deliberately ran into a struggle with the stool. He fiddled with the screws - raising it and then lowering it until he gave up, rushed into the wings and came back with a large book. That didn't work either, so Pachmann tore out one single page and sat down - Ahh - now he was comfortable. (This trick was one that Victor Borge borrowed much later).
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
Once during a London recital Pachmann crouched over the keyboard trying to hide his hands while playing one of his great stunts: Chopin's Minute Waltz arranged in thirds. And then he said to the audience. Vy do I do zis? - because I zee in ze owdience mein alte freund Moritz Rosenthal, and I doon't want him to copy my fingering.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
@MrGer2295 Thanks for your wounderful explanations. Vladimir Pachman was absolutly great. He was able to laugh about himself. Her was a very great Chopin Interprete and his humour ist awesome
ErnstGroeschel 1 week ago
(Pachmann would invariably talk to his audience - in his typical gibberish - before and after playing or for that matter in the middle of the piece).
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
But Pachmann got his own laughs. At a concert he suddenly pulled out a sock and told the audience that it was one of Chopin's socks - knitted by George Sand. And then he hung it on the piano for the rest of the recital. Harold C. Schoenberg tells this story but he forgot to tell the rest of it: the next day a journalist visited the pianist and they had a hearty laughter together when Pachmann told him, that - of course - the sock was his own.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
ut Pachmann got his own laughs. At a concert he suddenly pulled out a sock and told the audience that it was one of Chopin's socks - knitted by George Sand. And then he hung it on the piano for the rest of the recital. Harold C. Schoenberg tells this story but he forgot to tell the rest of it: the next day a journalist visited the pianist and they had a hearty laughter together when Pachmann told him, that - of course - the sock was his own.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
Pachmann also once told the audience that he was wearing Chopin's underwear!.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
Pachmann made a lot of money on his concerts and he spent them on his other great passion: diamonds and other precious stones - and - like Liberace, many years later - he would bring them on to the stage and show them to the audience. But when he had shown them and the audience had acknowledged their beauty, he would tell them, that they would now forget all about them, for when he played they would experience colors far more beautiful than what they had just seen.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you!
MrGer2295 3 months ago
Most of his colleagues got nervous ticks every time they saw Pachmann in the audience, because they never knew what might happen. At a recital where Busoni was playing, Pachmann rushed to the stage holding Busoni's arm up like a boxing referee declaring the winner - saying: Busoni grösster Bach-Spieler - Pachmann grösster Chopin-Spieler (Busoni is the greatest Bach-player - Pachmann the greatest Chopin-player).
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
The same with Godowsky - at a recital Pachmann rushed to the stage interrupting a piece by Chopin saying. No, no Leopold - you moost play it like zis afterwards telling the audience that he would not have given this advice to anyone, but Godowsky iz ze zecund greatest lifving pianist. In fact Pachmann claimed that Liszt after a recital had jumped to his feet and told the audience: this is the way Chopin played.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
But - on the other hand - the same Godowsky was once asked by a colleague whether he thought it would be worth going to a recital by the elderly Pachmann, and the great pianist answered, I'll tell you, if he plays for one minute the way he used to, it will be worthwhile being miserable for the rest of the recital.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
Indeed during his prime Pachmann gained the respect not only of Godowsky but also that of Liszt, and many other great pianists. At his best he had a wonderful singing tone, a completely natural ability to turn a phrase and a sound instinct for musical form (and with the years a strange technique - playing with his hands flat - as seen on the picture above).
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
So while Schoenberg and others were laughing at him, the professionals and his colleagues remembered him as a great pianist - a miniaturist - like Joseffy - but a true virtuoso, being almost unsurpassed in the nocturnes of Chopin.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
But don't get me wrong. I still find Harold C. Schoenberg's The great Pianists a wonderful book, but it is wise to remember the words of the great Danish cello player of the wonderful Copenhagen String Quartet, Asger Lund Christiansen who once during an interview said: Critics tend to forget, that they are not part of musical life - they are just observers. Where Sir Thomas Beecham took a far more grim view.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
When he heard that a chair for music critics at some English university he proposed that it should be an electrical one.
Molto Bello!!! Thank you for sharing this video.
MrGer2295 3 months ago
@1:02 isn't it spooky when he gazes into the camera??
pianoboy75 5 months ago
Just to set the record straight, the original nitrate film was kept by Reginald Reynolds, the Aeolian Company's Duo-Art recording producer in London, who appears in the film. When Reynolds died in the 1950s, it ended up with his daughters, latterly the younger one, Yvonne Hinde-Smith. Yvonne passed it to the Player Piano Group, and Gerald Stonehill arranged for several copies to be made, and so it has survived. The original film is silent, and the order of the scenes is different.
pianolainstitute 1 year ago
On the subject of piano rolls - they are often very good when produced by people who know what they're doing but in recent years the releases have been pretty bad. Listen to the 1966 Argo Lhevinne rolls - absolutely superb; then listen to the Newport Classics 1990s release of the SAME rolls - they're an appalling hack job and a slander on Lhevinne's name. Apart from other considerations (proper maintenance of the reproducer, for instance) the operator has to know and set the correct tempo.
gtimny 1 year ago
@gtimny YES - I agree - With reproducing piano performances, it's all about the condition of the reproducing piano. When well maintained (and tuned), these pianos are capable of stunning life-like performances. Another factor is the condition of the roll, which can vary depending on provenance. Most original rolls are now over 80 yrs old. There are some excellent examples of recently restored Duo-Art and Ampico reproducing piano performances on Youtube.
bigcity233 1 year ago
I suspect that Pachmann became a little crazy as he got older. I've heard performances of his that I thought were wonderful, but this isn't one of them. I'm not opposed to rubato, but it has to make sense and this performance loses the thread of the melody almost immediately. He didn't always sound like this.
gtimny 1 year ago
Fascinating historical footage!
gerardbedecarter 1 year ago
i see
(i play many of his pieces (posted them too) but i dont play this impromptu yet)
callenishss 2 years ago
Performers signed their piano roles once they approved the production. There are in existence some roles of early pianists who improvised upon the piano for pracitce but never released the roles for sale.
sfkcbf 2 years ago
guess who glenn gould stole his hairstyle from?
Classicmozayful 2 years ago 4
Comment removed
Classicmozayful 2 years ago
Guinguette is right...What is this track ? Not Pachmann, for sure !!!
leviolondudiable 2 years ago
chopini impromptu? i mite be wrong, mistaken
callenishss 2 years ago
Comment removed
guinguette07 2 years ago
it must be ur awful ears that hear this
spike2133876 2 years ago
Comment removed
guinguette07 2 years ago
he's so small!
4ngry4nus 2 years ago 3
de pachmann..
from city as my mother. odessa.
one of the most inspired cities in europe
he was a crazy big small man
wanjabelaga 3 years ago
Louiu - Can you please cite the source of this film; who's possession was it before it was digitized, or, from whom did you receive the digitized movie?
karellison 3 years ago
I would looove to have that test roll he just signed!
stienwayz 3 years ago
do anyone know the name of this piece? it sounds me familiar but i dont get it (N)
heroicpolonaise 3 years ago
Chopin's g flat major impromptu.
toneeeeeee 3 years ago
Its Chopin's Impromptu no.2 in F-sharp major, op.36
hatake16 3 years ago
Its Chopin's Impromptu no.2 in F-sharp major, op.36
hatake16 3 years ago
Jajajaj. Why the first response have a thumb up and second (that it's exactly the same, probably just a mistake) have a thumb down.
EdiEllerymissing 2 years ago
Comment removed
tydhq 2 years ago
Does anybody know from what year this vid. was shot?
jculver2 3 years ago
Well what a gem .we see a little of how Depachmann sat moved at piano . didn't know there was anything in film .Well one more testament.generation so many have tried to wash over.the problem s 1 needs authentic era imagination to add or rythmicize chopin. Koczalski,Depach,Sauer,Rosenthal etc can tell us ( Hofmann Rach Lhevinne rubinstein tradition is differ.) Siloti ? any moskowski recordings ?I think my gener s afraid.The music doesnt belong to us enug to make it new.
lovesGenet 4 years ago
I need to correct my previous comment.The roll is about a quarter step flat.
Beckmesser2 4 years ago
This piano roll is playing a half step flat.I have posted Pachmann's 1923 Victor recording at the correct pitch on You Tube.
Beckmesser2 4 years ago
well there is only one single piano roll recording i ever appreciated; that is scriabin playing his own etude op8,no12, where it's really mad and improvisatory.
lavenderpowder 4 years ago
i never dreamed i'd be able to see pachmann play. thank you so much. i wonder if there are any more such films of the great early pianists?
kasyapa 4 years ago
Dear Cziffra,Not as a musicologist,but as a listener
many of the rolls R my all-time favorite records...
D'Albert's Liszt Liebestraum,Pachmann's Chopin c# nocturne & Mendelssohn's
Song without Words,Debussy's Le Plus Que Lent,
Stavenhagen's Liszt Franciscus Legende,Grieg's own
recordings of his Songs etc...I adore them.Regards
smithsherman 4 years ago
4. I doubt there is a conspiracy to denigrate older performance aesthetics. Some things seem like a conspiracy because lazy critics parrot earlier opinions rather than trying to listen with fresh ears. Also, at least from many of the comments by younger people on YouTube, it seems many people are crazy for high-speed digital dexterity, with interpretation not much a consideration -- or are the unimaginative but fast performances that abound today shaping such values?
emtube 4 years ago
3. Of course, musical taste and preference are subjective, not absolute. I love the older, freer performances, but these abound also in old discs, not just rolls. Try listening to the Josef Hoffman recordings on VAI and Marston, or the mysterious mazurka rhythms of Friedman. Contrariwise, some older performers on roll and disc were also quite metronomic.
emtube 4 years ago
Dear Em,Here is the modern argument that all other
than technique is subjective.If that is true?Why do
people laugh and cry at the same time in films?
That you doubt the conspiracy against expressive
playing is a sign that you have few read the
reviews of concerts between 1920-1940.
They are full of hate for anything unmechanical
and expressive.
smithsherman 4 years ago
Oh, I see what you are referring to. No, I am well aware of the "machine age" mentality of critics and so on who prized mentronomic, accurate, fast, and unfortunately often soulless performances. It was the era that placed Toscanini above most other conductors, for example. I was referring to present-day tastes. No conflict here!
emtube 4 years ago
Dear Em,To know that you know,what you've said here fills me full of Joy.You are 1 more rare person, who hasn't been talked out of his senses by the incessant propaganda and thought conditioning emanating from the conservatory gulags,and establish-
ment thugs.Regards,Smith
smithsherman 4 years ago
Thank you Smith & Em, love from N.Z.
arunoaj 4 years ago
Sure, "conservatory gulags" and "establishment thugs" are easy targets, yet you meekly retreat from slaughtering the pretentious revanchist blood-drinking bottom-feeding capitalist stooge-poseurs and their running-dog jackal-hyena plutocrat-hooligans of ruling falangist classes!
sagalat 3 years ago
2. But, comparing existing piano rolls with actual recorded discs by the same artists (even made during the same periods of their lives) reveals noticable differences. E.g., disc-recorded Rachmaninoff performances have much more rhythmic punch than the sonically gorgeous Window in Time stuff. Some performers sound impeccable on roll but drop notes left and right on their discs.
emtube 4 years ago
1. Mr Smith, I am grateful for the existence of piano rolls by performers (and of performances) we would not otherwise have. Also, the best-recorded ones sound really great on well-maintained equipment recorded with modern techniques. The big advantage for rolls is the length of performance was not limited to around 4 minutes, like the pre-LP discs.
emtube 4 years ago
Dear Em, Make this as complicated as you wish.
I too am grateful for the rolls and cylinders.
In everything in life you can pick apart and
critisize the 5 10 or 15% of the problems.
For me it is a tremendous witness to an era gone
by,and a confirmation of traditional performance techniques forbidden by the Anti-romantic 20th
century.
smithsherman 4 years ago
Dear Em,There has been a concerted attempt to discredit cylinders as evidence of the past.Y?
Not because of the "tampering" you mention,
but because it has interfered with the attempt
to rewrite traditional performance.People
want to think that Debussy's music should be perf-ormed without much rubato.However the cylinders
show that he played just as everyone did...with
a ton of rubato!And as well for the others.Regards,Smith
smithsherman 4 years ago
This is the Reginald Reynolds film, the UK Aeolian Company pianola demonstrator and Duo-Art recording assistant. Nice to see it with music. It's thought the film was a UK Aeolian promotional & may have had synchronized sound. Whilst it's pre-Vitaphone there were other early systems in use in the UK at the time so it is all quite possible. Aeolian had a sound department in the UK also (Aeolian Vocalion). Who knows, one day the soundtrack may surface!
pianolasociety 4 years ago
I thought it might be Reginald Reynolds, the UK Duo-Art recording assistant. It's too bad that there is so little surviving official documentation of the Aeolian Co. Duo-Art system. Your website is one of the best sources of information.
bigcity233 4 years ago
This is a wonderful film clip. I wonder if it was made by The Aeolian Co. Pachmann recorded for Aeolian Duo-Art. The Duo-Art reproducing player system was the system accepted by Steinway & Sons and was available in S&S pianos from about 1914 to 1935. The Duo-Art system was also available in Weber pianos, a very well respected brand of that time. The upright in the opening scene appears to be a Weber Duo-Art. Duo-Art was known for their extensive classical recording library.
bigcity233 5 years ago
Superb! What a treat to see Pachmann, even if silent -- and with Pachmann's own inimitable recording of Chopin's Impromptu in F-Sharp -- this very recording was the first by Pachmann I ever heard, and fell in love with his playing immediately, some 45+ years ago as a child. Some of his later recordings are kind of sad, but when he was in good condition, his delicate expression and pristine rubato remain unmatched. To think that he was born the year Chopin died! Thanks for this!
emtube 5 years ago
The impromptu you hear is recorded from the roll and not very reliable. There is a superb recording of this piece from original 78's (1925) from the Dante-cd "Complete recordings" which is really amazing. Pachmann's style of playing, especially in the nocturnes, comes very close to Chopin's own playing (according to Liszt). Listen to opus 27 nr. 2 with embellishment that could have been improvised by Chopin. They are not "kind of sad" but very important sound-documents.
busoniliszt 5 years ago
I didn't know this was from the piano roll, thanks for that information. I have collected every collection of Pachmann's performances I could find, from the LP days, and treasure nearly all his performances. But, the late records when he almost seems like Fats Waller with his comedy patter during performance were the ones I thought were kind of sad. Even when aged, on good days, he was very, very good.
emtube 5 years ago
You have the LP's? They must sound really good, hard to find these days!
busoniliszt 5 years ago
When you say this was recorded from the roll and "not very reliable" - do you mean that the piano roll is not a reliable record of his performance?
bigcity233 5 years ago
The piano rolls are extremely reliable.This is
myth created and perpetuated by the Anti-
Expressive Originalist Conservatory movement
to discredit as much of the past as possible in order to reinvent the history of performance
to suit their agenda.Even when a roll is sped
up,it still retains the exact phrase time
relationship and dynamic.which is the central
feature of good performance.
smithsherman 4 years ago
I agree that the best reproduction piano equipment was quite good, but most of the earlier systems failed to record dynamics, which were often added manually later, and were quite easy to tamper with (i.e., edit), unlike all recordings up until tape editing became possible. The better acoustic recordings, in spite of the noise, are sometimes capable of expressing nuances of touch that the rolls generally miss.
emtube 4 years ago
Dear Em,Thank U for Ur wonderful thoughts.There R ys problems in everything.U know that!What U call
"tampering",the people involved called "editing".
Just as every record since the 20's has been "tamp-
with"If the Cylinders showed differences in the
performance approach that the Edison did not,then
that would be source for worry.But they didn't.They preserve the
agogical aspects,particularly the phrase concepts
very well.Part 1
smithsherman 4 years ago
It was impossible to tamper with disc recordings. Wax cylinders could be scraped and reused, but not edited. Every disc recording until tape editing became possible represented the actual performance ("warts and all") of a living pianist for the duration of the disc. To get good performances, scrupulous players would record over and over until they had what they wanted on disc -- no editing was possible.
emtube 4 years ago
Dear Em,Yes in the fullest sense U R right.However
this "tampering U refer to" was done to correct
technical mistakes.Sometimes the general tempos were changed.But never any changes that demonically
erased the intent of the performer.Otherwise Grieg
Rachmanninoff,Debussy, and Reger to name a few
wouldn't have raved about it.Also I repeat that
every comparision made between cylinders and
Edison's reveal a complete consistency in the playing
styles of a performer.
smithsherman 4 years ago
Are you kidding? Look for the film where Rachmaninoff's piano roll of the famous prelude is put next to the audio recordings. Piano rolls are truly awful.
cziffra1980 4 years ago
Dear Cziffra,This Pachmann roll is identical to his
style on all of his Edison recordings.But if you want
to find the exceptions...have at it...
smithsherman 4 years ago
There are similarites of style sure, but piano rolls are totally unreliable as performances. They offer the faintest impression of the how the performance might have sounded. Listen to the lethargic plodding in the left hand. Typical piano roll sounds, without any proper voicing. There is a dead quality to the tone.
cziffra1980 4 years ago
Dearest Cziffra,I agree,they stink tonally.But because
The Anti-Expressive-Originalist-Conservatory
movement has not tried to mark late 19th century
pianist-tone-production as a heresy,I only focused
on them from the perspective of time in phrasing.
So desperate has the establishment been to erase
and rewrite historic performance practice.They
reinforce the Edisons like an arrow in the eye
of the anti-expressives,how music really was
and should be...Expressive through time.
smithsherman 4 years ago
Well, I see what you mean, but I've heard few rolls where I felt the timing amounted to something truly 'expressive', when coupled with the plodding lack of dynamics. You can learn from them (by guessing at how it would have sounded), but they do not offer anything that sounds very musical in itself. Even the rhythm isn't completely picked up. They are often very choppy and uneven.
cziffra1980 4 years ago
What piece is this-a little Chopinesque-but then not.Liszt?And is that De Pachmann playing?
nolubay 5 years ago
Priceless! Love his gesture of 'surprise' when the roll is brought to him!! WE LOVE DE PACHMANN!!!
camaysar222 5 years ago