Problem of Evil: William Lane Craig vs AC Grayling

[lovellespice]

atheists should focus on debating muslims, they have little to offer by way of philosophy

[lovellespice]

"atheist philosopher" is an oxymoron.. imo they should just stick to "atheist rhetorician"

[IR17171717]

@lovellespice you are wrong. look up sophisticated atheists like 'j.l. mackie' or someone for goodness sake. as if the new atheists are what all atheists are like. your comments so absolutely rude and offensive and just ignorant. its a really silly thing to say. do you have any idea where the world would be without atheist philosophers? neither do i, because its impossible to calculate the significance of their amazing work. what a rude thing to say

[Falcondick69]

William Lane Craig, the only thing Atheists fear more than the existance of GOD.

[leviMichealathan]

13 ppl listened to 1 second of the video

[afluffymango]

@leviMichealathan I think that could be said for the majority of dislikes on Christian videos. 

[rrenvall]

I'll admit I'm a bit embarrassed for Dr. Grayling... I do however think another debate between them could be interesting. The problem of Evil I thought, as Dr. Craig very well pointed out, was solved long ago to be very much compatible with the idea of God. I thought it strange that it was really even up for debate.

[Birdieupon]

Can anybody please explain where Grayling actually makes a single argument in this debate? It sounds like a load of incoherent statements, separated only by jibes about fairies and circular assumptions which don't take into account the problems with the Problem of Evil, that Craig already outlined at the start!

[Zimnyification]

Craig needs to debate Loftus. What has he got to lose?

[rfvidz]

@Zimnyification Craig said he doesn't debate former students. Besides, Loftus? The guy never won a debate in his life. He's worse than Michael Shermer.

[bsgrep]

@Zimnyification nothing he hasn't lost already.

[mollkatless]

@Zimnyification - Are you kidding? Loftus is horrible, he got absolutely destroyed against D'Souza, he has nothing to say. Craig does have something to lose, the time he would waste schooling a very average intellect

[momoseth2]

Ah! The great debate that never happened!!!

[empreme]

This debate is difficult to listen to. I can tell that Craig is struggling to keep the discussion going.

It would have been better if Grayling had been a no-show and Craig just given a lecture.

[rfvidz]

@empreme Uh yeah, some struggle, even though Craig creamed him, and Grayling is doing all he can to look like he never debated Craig. Nothing gets passed you.

[empreme]

@rfvidz You misunderstood. Craig is struggling to keep the debate going, as in, he's trying to keep the discussion interesting in light of Grayling saying absolutely nothing.

Not sure how you messed that up. You must have completely ignored my second comment. Go back and read it. I am a big fan of Craig and his work, and I love your channel and what you do. I realize you get attacked constantly so you're a little on guard, but relax a little and be more careful.

Geez.

[rfvidz]

@empreme I can only go by what you say. Be more clear next time.

[empreme]

@rfvidz "It would have been better if Grayling had been a no-show and Craig just given a lecture"

But, at any rate, keep up the good work.

[babystinky]

@empreme

I agree, and I understand what your saying. Craig, was struggling because Grayling was just "up to it."

[matrixlone]

@empreme nah craig kicks the shit outta him ducking dawkins is next

[youneekk]

Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...

[SnideCast]

@youneekk "Oh God" *facepalm*

[Birdieupon]

Is it just me, or did Grayling somehow manage to say absolutely nothing throughout this entire debate?

[RyanEaster91]

@Birdieupon I was thinking the same thing.

[pobanmanu]

@Birdieupon It is just you.

[Birdieupon]

@pobanmanu

Then can you name an argument he gave which didn't already assume, by circularity, the "argument from evil" fallacies Craig already addressed?

[RyanEaster91]

If you removed the British accent from Grayling, he would be even more demonstratively philosophically inept.

[saturnined]

Question, Grayling: Utilitarianism's view of the Common Good is pretty good for us mere mortals to chew on, but what does it have to do with proving the non-existence of God? No one with 2 IQ points to rub together would leave morality up to mankind as evidenced by u're remark "how much pain and suffering would I allow my children??????' Evolution quickly becomes devolution. It's not a/b U, Mr. Grayling! GROW UP! Speak up! Stop mumbling to u'reself! Good God u're scattered all over the place!

[saturnined]

I'm really struggling to understand Grayling (audio?) or is he talking to himself? A la Noam Chomsky

[ZealfortheCross]

No wonder Grayling claims that he never debated WLC, and no wonder Grayling won't debate him again.

[scar504]

@ZealfortheCross Freud would describe Grayling's "lapse in memory" as a repressed traumatic experience.

[idky1349]

I cant believe it has been only Kelly Shagan to win a debate against William Lane Craig.

[LittleSn00py]

I can't wait for the debate with Milican! This will be a sight!

[TheColaGoodfellow]

The problem of evil was made by atheists.

Eve was an atheist.

[SnideCast]

@TheColaGoodfellow *d'oh*

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@SnideCast

Atleast I don't need God to know what is right and wrong.

You'd love to blame him for all the crap in the world instead of yourself. You are exactly the same as Adam, blaming other people for your own ignorant mistakes.

[SnideCast]

@TheColaGoodfellow I said "d'oh"

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@SnideCast

I have eyes you know!

[Birdieupon]

@TheColaGoodfellow

"Atleast I don't need God to know what is right and wrong."

That's right, you don't.

But you DO need God for right and wrong to exist.

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@Birdieupon

Exactly.

[pobanmanu]

@Birdieupon Thats an extra ordinary claim you are making. Anyway for arguments sake lets that a god is needed for right or wrong to exist, then which god would it be, would it be Ganesha, some form of allah or one of the many formats of yahwehs?? I suppose you follow one of the flavour of Christianities. Why do you think that morality is contingent on your format of yahweh and not another format of yahweh or allah or ganesha or ....??

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@pobanmanu

Birdie believes in Jesus because she knows the scripture and hebrew history and morality better than you do.

[Birdieupon]

@TheColaGoodfellow

(he)!

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@Birdieupon

The church is a lady, Jesus' wife.

;)

[pobanmanu]

@TheColaGoodfellow If you think what you have said is not fatuous, then what do you think about Bart Ehrman?? He surely knows the scripture(I dont know how many times would be judicious) a lot more than even your WC. Therefore it is fair to say that knowing something about X, doesnt mean that you have to believe in X. Let me give you another killer analogy; You probably know more about Santa Claus than I do, so by your logic you should be a believer in some format of Santa Claus right??

[pobanmanu]

@TheColaGoodfellow Still you havent answered my question. Which format of yahweh or yahwehs exist?? Out of all possible existing yahwehs, which one of them is the one to whom the morality is contingent?? Your logic is just as same as the christian(any type of christian) logic.

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@pobanmanu

The one which applies to everyone, even the unknowing non believers.

[pobanmanu]

@TheColaGoodfellow You are deliberately dodging the question.

[mcmanustony]

@TheColaGoodfellow

" she knows the scripture and hebrew history and morality better than you do"- morality? from a handful of YT comments of <500 characters. bit of a judgemental prick aren't you.

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@SnideCast

Change your mind, or you will die, because you are subject to the word of God.

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@SnideCast

Jesus is your saviour.

[SnideCast]

@TheColaGoodfellow Woah Woah Woah, I didn't say anything about Jesus or God. And I certainly did not blame any of the world's problems on anyone or anything. Who says God has to be a "him".

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@SnideCast

Doesn't matter does it? Without God morality it doesn't matter.

Now, you are free to question your own morality further.

[SnideCast]

@TheColaGoodfellow I did not utter the word morality, I simply said "d'oh".

It's like your having a conversation with yourself, or are replying to the wrong person.

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@SnideCast

I'm merely stating the truth about how much your life is worth, because you need to know it.

[SnideCast]

@TheColaGoodfellow So let me get this straight, I reply to a Youtube comment by simply saying "d'oh".

Now am going to die if I don't change my mind about something and I have no morality...

Homer Simpson must be in a heap of trouble then, he says "d'oh" all the time *shocked face*

[SnideCast]

@TheColaGoodfellow Well... is my my analysis correct padre.

[Birdieupon]

Nice work man! :-D

[xchampx]

Where was this held?

[Birdieupon]

@xchampx

Oxford

[RyanEaster91]

I think William Lane Craig's opening speech ended the debate before it started.

[HELLawaitsall59]

@RyanEaster91

Hahahahaha! Agreed.

[girtkaz]

@RyanEaster91 you think that atheist position is so bad?

[RyanEaster91]

@girtkaz I think it's a fair thing to ponder the existence of evil with God. However, i do think the Atheist is being dishonest by holding onto the logical problem of evil when there is really a knockdown defense against it. There are two types of Atheists. The ones that consistently are angry even with the idea of a God that generally troll the internet, and the ones that are doubtful but seeking. I learned that only those in the latter camp can be reached though Apologetics.

[girtkaz]

@RyanEaster91 openess is a key to any progress of thought:-)

[TrueTaike]

@girtkaz Openness is also the gateway to irrational thought, disbelief, and lies. I keep guards at my door.

[TheColaGoodfellow]

@TrueTaike

No, openness is the gateway to understanding, and thus knowledge of truth. Openness is the gateway to love and understanding.

[girtkaz]

@TrueTaike openness with guards is a nice combination:-) ofcourse we need to use all our abilities in the process. we are well equiped for that.

[ClumsyRoot]

@RyanEaster91

What's the "knockdown defense" of which you speak?

[SnideCast]

@RyanEaster91 Why do you refer to Atheists as "the Atheist".

Am just curious as I have seen people use the two words in the same manner around Youtube of recent.

[RyanEaster91]

@SnideCast I don't know to be honest. Maybe it was a mistake, it sounded good to me at the time.

[ClumsyRoot]

Really? How open-minded of you. :)