japan is an atheist country, too. 76% of their population are nonbelievers (atheists and agnostics), while only 24% of the population are either religious, or believe in a god without religion.
Using that logic, God is also a grammar Nazi. Your grammar makes me want to kill us both with the same shard of dull glass. Tell your god about it later.
I don't know much about Castro, I don't consider Castro to be such a bad guy. During the height of the Stalin terror about one half of the Soviet Communist Party Central Committee were eliminated. Communists have been the largest proportion of those directly persecuted and killed in this period. Similarly, communists were probably the largest proportion of those directly victimised and killed during Mao's "Cultural Revolution" in China. Yet you weep for the religious persecution
squitmaa, more likely Cuba worked better allowing freedom. Thousands died under Castro, but millions died under Juche which was deeply religious. Faith doesn't solve the issue. And if it does, then please explain the Taiping Rebellion
Here are a few marxists: Arno J. Mayer is jewish, E. P. Thompson is methodist, Pablo Neruda is roman catholic, Pete Seeger is unitarian
If you think marxism is incompatable with religion, then consider that many Christians also find evolution to be that way
Its funny how practically everywhere else around the world even in Europe people are tolerant of people with a homosexual background. Yet the US is still so strictly against it for some strange reason? Why is it so difficult for the US in particular to "jump on board" with everyone else?
If I remember correctly, many of the people who fled to the world came here to escape from Religious persecution, no look whats happening. The US is basically becoming the tyranny it sought to get away from!
Religion has not managed to kill the number killed by atheistic murderers in the last century, the USSR killed 60 million, the PRC killed 70 million, Leopold II of Belgium killed 15 million and colonialism killed 50 million(inspired by social darwinism).
Religion is so miniscule, while people complain alot about religion and the witch trials they don't even know of events that were far worse and killed tens of millions like the an shi rebellion
so if someone dies of a heart attack, we shouldn't worry about cancer? Also, the examples you gave weren't people killing FOR atheism...the examples used against religion ARE examples of people killing FOR their religious belief.
uhhh....bullshit. Could you define for me what "atheism's sake" is? Atheism isn't a "thing" to HAVE a "sake"...just like there is no such THING as an a-plumber or an a-physicist. Ever noticed that all of your examples are totalitarian dictatorships? Do you think THAT might have something to do with it?
ok fine, call it "anti-theism's" sake if it makes you feel better, my point is that they were extremely anti-religious. This also makes a totally unwarranted distinction of just a mere lack of belief to sheer certainty that God is absent, which causes people to kill
Hitler also had a dictatorship, yet atheists repeatedly claim that the Holocaust should be blamed on Christianity, not dictatorship. I might as well dismiss all religious wars as a result of dictatorship
ALL atheism IS is a LACK OF BELIEF. NO WHERE in the definition of "atheism" is the phrase "God is absent" ever used. Nor does my confidence that your god is in fact nowhere to be found make me want to kill, so I still say bullshit.
Good point on Hitler, but Hitler used scripture to justify his claims. I DO NOT think that it was his Christianity that made him do it. But he did use religion to gain support.
Atheism is the opposite of theism, seems to me like there's an opposition here. According to the dictionary atheism is a doctrine, immorality, and a rejection of God. Take that with whatever weight you want
The Inquisition also had a dictatorship, why won't you also dismiss it for it was just dictatorship in action.
also what did dictatorship had to do with say the French Revolution, the Jacobins and some other individual atheists who sheerly oppose religion?, here's one example:
renewamerica(.)us(/)columns(/)hagin(/)051115
Quite clearly, if they were religious this would not have happened
"Quite clearly, if they were religious this would not have happened" - you don't know that. In fact, it isn't even true. If that were the case then Muslims wouldn't fight Hindus, Christians wouldn't have tortured the Jews and Pagans, etc.
The examples i gave you far exceed all religious wars combined. Just look at the top atrocities, surely if Enver Hoxha was religious he wouldn't claim that albanian is the world first atheist state. If these people were religiou this wouldn't have happened, more people have died in the last century than all pre-century wars combined
uh...that's because there are MORE PEOPLE! Stronger weapons! Was Moses religious? Because he committed a few genocides too if you believe the story. And despite your ridiculous claims that NOT believing in a god made people fight...you are saying this like it JUSTIFIES the religious wars that have happened. It's like if someone complained about a war being fought over oil, you responded with "But more people died fighting communism."
people from ancient times had no problem killing huge numbers. Take the an shi rebellion as an example, it killed 36 million people, no guns whatsoever, the Mongol Conquests killed 40 million. Why don't we see such bloody wars because of religion?, it's not like religion disappeared when the population went higher
And regarding weapons, Mao killed 20 million just from forced labour, no guns. Stalin&Mao mainly relied on primitive methods
tell ya, what...let's go with the "why don't we see this today" approach...
Where are the atheist atrocities today? There are many secular nations, some with atheist populations over 80%...and yet, they are peaceful. Meanwhile, America with the reverse trend of 80% Christians has a murder rate that eclipses all other developed nations.
Until fairly recently (the last decade or so) all this was an opt-out tax, not an opt-in one, and all registered members of a church paid it. The catch was, unless you said so at the registration of the birth, you were by default a registered member of the Swedish national church (ie, a Lutheran).
the only way to leave this was to declare yourself officially an atheist. That's why they keep record of these things, it's important
It doesn't justify them, it's just that they are very miniscule, the witch trials are remembered by everyone while major wars like the an shi is forgotten
Sorry for being a pain in the neck but i have to agree with the example you gave. I didn't get your point, unless of course you want a response to why there were so many wars in the name of religion
no...the point is that you can't justify one war by talking about another...it's the equivalent of me hitting you because Jim hit Joe. In the end, if there is a thing that people use to justify killing, then it needs to be addressed...not ignored because someone else used a different reason to kill MORE people.
Why can't I call that thing Atheism, it's not a coincidence that the biggest tyrants in history(Mao&Stalin) were atheists. The third is actually Khubali Khan that killed tens of millions during the Mongol Conquests, he was a Buddhist, but you'll probably won't accept him as an atheist
As for why bad things happen in the name of religion. They just were religious, but they didn't do it because of religion.
it's not a coincidence? Are you certain of that? You don't think that the fact that they were totalitarian dictators, each and every one, might have had more to do with it? Hitler fits that category as well. However, when a religious person does these things, they use the religion to garner support. The atheist can't make a statement like "I'm doing the lack of a god's work!" Atheism has no dogma to be pushed.
What totalitarianism did the French Revolution or the Russian Civil War have?
Stalin wanted to eradicate religion and therefore he wanted absolute power, and he gained it by portraying himslf as God-like, that what happens when human try to take the place of God
STRAWMAN! I'm not saying ALL WAR. Good call on Stalin, in totalitarian dictatorships, the dictator is seen as "god-like"...they BECOME the religion. Thanks for making my point for me.
That wasn't a religion, it was ideology, Marxism mixed with a few elements of the ideas of Stalin. You can't blame the crimes of atheism on religion. and what about pol pot?, he had no personality cult at all, what "religion" in action was there?
What did the revolutionary atheistic wars get to be blamed on then?, how do you explain Lenin?
WHOA WHOA WHOA! How do you figure that you can start off with a word like "ideology" and then abandon that and insert "crimes of atheism on religion"...damn, you just don't get it.
Because Atheism is a philosophy, fact, when religiousity declined over 200 million people died in the last century alone. That's not a coincidence, there were many evil dictators but none match the dictators of te last century
"atheism" isn't a "philosophy"...it's the lack of a particular type of philosophy. BTW, religiosity is declining now in many countries in Europe and they STILL aren't even remotely close to the murder rate of America or the Middle East...nor are their rates on the rise. Not even COMMUNIST CHINA comes close. As to "the last century"...there are many things that don't compare to the last century...I think it's safe to say the difference is the times we live in.
All of America's and the middle east murder rate combined are meaningless in the face of Communist China, it has killed 100 million people. No contest
Difference in the times we live in?, sorry, religion didnt disappear in the last century, we should have expected a religious war yet the Holocaust and Islamic extremism are insignificant to what Communism did just in the last century.
Look at the top 4 atrocities, Red China, USSR, two world wars. No religion involved
Sorry, wars are crimes. Deal with it, The USA is a major superpower yet it killed at max 2 million. Compare that to Communist China bloody history
And look at deeply anti-religious countries like godless albania, then talk about how proud you are that in some unknown countries of atheists are doing fine
The murder rate in Russia was much higher when atheism ruled, communism gives equal to all which made people lazy, on the other hand we have a reward, Heaven
"communism gives equal to all which made people lazy, on the other hand we have a reward, Heaven" - so explain to me then why guys like myself and even better examples like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are so successful WITHOUT a belief in a "heaven"? You are twisting your own thoughts to fit this warped logic you are trying to argue.
Bill Gates is a wolf, and I bewlieve he quite recently stopped working. Bad example, why are you so proud of putting him to your category?
I believe Warren Buffet is an agnostic theist, not exactly an atheist
Compare that however to other examples of atheists violence such as the Russian Civil war that killed 9 million, China during the Nationalist Era, the Koreabn&Vietnam war that killed as many as 6 million
thinking that Jesus may have been a real person but not a god doesn't make you a theist. Do you have an example that uses a democratically elected government and not a totalitarian dictator?
"He's an agnostic theist, deal with it." - based on your mere assertions? Get over yourself.
and more proof that you are no longer worth the effort...that last line is the most retarded thing I've ever seen you post....and that's saying a LOT!
"Surely, God on high has not refused to give us enough wisdom to find ways to bring us an improvement in relations between the two great nations on earth."
"Jesus was..the first to seek a better life for mankind."
You still produced no evidence, something most atheists do when they present an argument from authority
Lenin, Trotsy, Hoxha and other atheist politicians did so. I challenge you to give me an atheist who had a chance for dictatorship but didn't do it
tell me, do you know of any kind of horrible disease such as smallpox or the bubonic plague that could have been eradicated easier if religion didn't keep slowing down science?
You can use anything you want to justify your hate. If I kill in the name of Evolution lets say (Collumbine), is it Evolution's fault? Does evolution really teach murder is fine?
Lets go to the incident now. Does the Bible teach torture as fine? If someone does it in the Bible's name, is it automatically the Bible's fault.
It isn't and I think the emphasis should be on the misguided, sick-minded parents instead.
didn't say "bible"...I said religion. "Evolution" doesn't have doctrine to DO anything. A "religion" is formed as people make their interpretations of some idea. That "idea" gives them AUTHORITY to do the things that they have decided to follow.
Sure it does. Only the strong should survive. Hitler thought it was the duty of the strong to trample the weak. Evolution invokes many ideas that people act on.
And throwing the Bible into some sort of Religion Collective enrages me to no end. Tell me, when you were a Christian, did you ever think of converting to Islam? Well why not! Aren't they both the same!
AGAIN, evolution doesn't have a "doctrine", so any ideas he gathered were HIS OWN. As to Islam, I looked at MANY different religions including that one...and yes, they are the same.
Interesting. It seems that when a non-communist country is religious it has the same level of bigotry and prejudice as an atheist communist country. Does this mean that religion is as bad as communism in terms of reduction of morality?
Understand that the statement was purely an analytical one; and I don't find it necessary to explain what I thought was in context. Don't cherry pick me.
I'm arguing from the perspective of the parents. Their judgements were grossly radical considering the principles.
I'm saying that it is wrong Biblically which is the stand-point the parents were taking...right?
If you want to argue whether or not the Bible is right on this issue, you can press that later. But I thought we were talking about the judgements made by the parents.
the issue isn't what your opinion of the correct version of the Bible is or my opinion on if the Bible is right on the issue...it's simply that these people are using it to justify their hate. And when a preacher spreads this hate in a sermon, it could lead others to think the same way. My daughter goes to school with a girl that said she hates gay people because her "preacher said...."
yes but being anti-theistic is still not the same as being atheist, one can be anti-theistic towards all other religions while still believing in your own, this is the case when a totalitarian country is run by a theist, evidence...germany 1934-45.
You can absolutely say that the parents were wrong without saying the Bible is wrong. Homosexuality is wrong. But that doesn't justify torture, and unrighteous treatment of their children.
Totalitarianism can definitely exist without a supernatural basis, but the fear of infinite torture is a far greater manipulator than any finite threat even the most powerful mortal dictator can make. The authority from god also serves as the perfect justification for any idea no matter how contradictory and revolting. Religion is a catalyst for totalitarianism, it makes it easier to achieve.
I am so sick of people blaming Atheism for China and and just dismissing the fact taht they're Communist. It's like Atheism is this evil force that's to blame for everything and Communism is just a coincidence.
Actually I've been thinking about it, and *I've come to the conclusion that a Social Philosophy is basically a Religiuon without the mytholong.
To be clear I didn't blame atheism for China. King Heathen Missed what said. I said non relgious. Communism is certainly anti-relgious (chapter 2 communist manifesto). I would say there are good and bad social philosophies. To be a religion they should deal with spriituality. Also there is good and bad spirituality.
Not true, I recommend you'll wiki "religious communism" and "Christian communism". If you mean that paticular communism of Marxism is anti-religious(and thus religion is the solution) then the answer is again no, I can give you several religious marxists.
Stalin's seminary training influenced the style of his tyranny, and Russia's history of divinely ordained autocrats assisted the Communist consolidation of power
Juche(communist) deals with spirituality, the 2 Korean leaders came from heaven
Notice that you have to add modifiers to make communism religious. In it's purest form it is not. In all honest I will admit it is rare that we ever talk about anything in its purest form. Stalin is a fun study in relgion and communism. In his early years he rejected it, then during war he liked it. Regardless of his label he was certainly a manipulative duche.
No not really. Just go to adherents dot com and what do you find, Juche!, gee, who knew the ideology of North Korea is a religion?
adherents(.)com(/)largecom(/)Juche(.)html
Math is also not religious, apparently I lost your point when you say that communism is not necessarily religious, please explain
I heared alot of times that Stalin rejected it, but I never found evidence for that claim, and I have a little evidence against it. My point is that communism can be deeply religious
Stalin used religion when it suited his needs, the people that Stalin killed were killed in the name of the absolute power of Stalin, atheists and Christians alike, he had no problem being bad to atheists(like Trotsky), or being good to Christians like clergyman Hewlett Johnson, the winner of the Stalin's prize. There are many paintings that portray Stalin as a saint and as a sun God, and "his works were influenced by a distinctly Biblical style"
Juche is a psudo religious political phylosophy based on communism, Marx is the one who defined communism. Chapter 2 of the communist Manifesto clearly condemns religion as harmful to state. Communism without religion failed in Russia mid- WW II and it also failed in Cuba. people today who still like Marxes Ideas realize that people in a society do better with religion. Therefore modern communism requires modifiers.
As for Stalin he was a master of propoganda, and there is no denying that he learned most of that from the Roman Catholic Church. It is difficult to say what percentage of its propoganda was for government purpose and what percent was for religious faith. We should learn from Catholic history that church and state should be seperate. Faith in the hand of a Tyrant is dangerous. But we learned from early communism that a people deprived of faith is a people deprived of hope.
According to wikipedia Juche is the "state-sponsored religion of North Korea", take that with whatever weight you want. And are you saying that Juche isn't true communism?, if so why doesn't Stalinism apply?, it certainly advocated things Marxism was opposed to like nationalism and dictatorship. Communism is the equality of people. Thus, if in any case, an emperor or exacting ruler exists, it isnt communism anymore.
"without religion" is an inaccurate term, it was secular, to quote your advice
"church and state should be seperate", I agree, I already showed you the influence religion had during Stalin's reign
Regarding Cuba, to quote Castro "I never saw a contradiction between the ideas that sustain me and the ideas of that symbol, of that extraordinary figure, Jesus Christ"
If you're saying that Castro's violence was because of his atheism, then how do you explain the Taiping rebellion? with +20 million deaths, put simply religious communism doesn't solve the problem
Stalin himself didn't kill anyone, the russians did, most of which were believers, so even if your assertion that Stalin was an atheist is granted, it proves nothing. And there is no doubt that he was partly motivated to do what he did due to his religious background
the problem of the 20th century atrocities is not being critical of faith, it was a promotion of it. It required worship, during the Mao Zedong worship people were burning joss sticks and praying. It established moral absolutes
"The only good bourgeois is a DEAD bourgeois" - pol pot
It has many anti-scientific campaigns that were passed off as more than just some improvement, it will be a MIRACLE, it "will turn our country into a superpower", even though they had good evidence it would be a disaster. It had a powerful point of focus, Stalin is more than just a human being, he's a sun God, Mao is the "red sun in our hearts", they deeply believed they must sacrifice DREAMS and HOPES in the name of the state
Time changes a man's perspective. Both Stalin and Castro started there reign with a "Great Purge". An attack on anything that supported a Bourgeois class. In both cases this included closing churches, religious school, imprisoning or killing religious leaders ect. This was Marx's intention. Later Stalin (1942)and Castro (1992) both came to the relization that religion is good for the masses. This is when they departed from "traditional" communism.
Keep in mind also that state religion is not what was introduced in these situations. Since 1992 many faiths thrive in Cuba (Protestant, Catholism, Judaism, ect). It is also intersting to note that prior to 1992 Castro called Cuban an Athiest state. Since 1992 he has changed to title to secular. Does this mean he thought being an athiest made him violent No. It means he saw that the word athiest could not be applied to his society successfully. Cuba worked better allowing faith.
you said that only 23% of sweden believe in god yet you critisized china because although they didn't believe in god they were religious. Why is that?, why not do the same to sweden to what you did to china?. 53% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force", why do you consider this as atheism?
North and South Korea has no official religion, but while S.Korea is democratic and are becoming very liberal, half of the country ascribes to no religion, while N.Korea, a communist (the last Maoist communist country ((China isn't communist at all anymore))) doesn't acknoweldge a God but worships the Communist leaders vivaciously, who starve the people, feed them lies and allow them no political power.
Censorship! You know what's interesting is what would take you probably not even 500 words to explain, you simply criticize my knowledge by telling me that I'm stupid and I'm expecting too much out of you when these are blatant excuses in my eyes. I already checked out the sites and have responses, but if I do give you one, you'll either claim to have responded to it or say I'm stupid. And the great thing is since this is not a PM Censorship not FTW!! WHOOO. I btw have more questions, yes or no?
Non religeous and atheist are not the same thing. I never made the statement that China was a atheist country, you put words in my mouth. Communist is the best example because to be truly communist you must be non religious, if these problems can come from communism they have more causes than just religion.
As for Sweden it was a Lutheran state until 2000. You also skiped over the 56% who believed in a higher power just not the Lutheran God. Further the majority of there anti hate legislation was done in 1987. They got passed hate before they got rid of state religion go figure.
As for Sweden getting rid of state religion only recently, it's in my opinion a case of not bothering to fix it because it wasn't broken in any effective way; in general people in the Nordic countries already draw a distinction between church and state by themselves (even religious people). An explicit law for that is largely redundant.
You are correct however it is still interesting to note that these cultures also developed largely with chrisitian thought. There are good ways and bad ways to use relgion.
You are correct, although I think it's worthwhile to make the disambiguation that the Nordic countries have been almost exclusively Lutheran ever since the Reformation, and not, say, Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.
read chapter 2 of the communist manifesto. Summery Religion is a insturment of the Buurgeois to control the lower class. To have a equal society we must abolish all religion. Futher Castro did not allow religion in Cuba until 1991. He closed hundreds of catholic schools and churches in the 60's.
read the constitution of the United States....then read the Amendments to it...then read the laws that go alone with it...see things can change. And while ONE MAN'S VISION of communism and what it should be and how it should be run may say one thing...the CORE IDEA of communism is that the government owns everything...that's about it. Religion has nothing to do with "being communist"
Religion has nothing to do with being communist, but communism has a lot to de with not being religious. Certaily communism is not the only source of anti-theisistic beliefs, but as a belief system it is no doubt anti-theistic.
come on stubby...communism is an economic structure. My son just studied it in Social Studies. There is capitalism, communism/socialism/ etc. Religion was just a small part that Marx saw as a blockade due to the theocracies that existed back then. It's all irrelevant now.
Communism is an economic structure, religion was a small part of Marx's ideas this is true. That doesn't change the fact that Russia and Cuba both closed many churches while establishing communist rule, or that China still imprisions and deports people for being missionaries. I don't think irrelevant is an accurate term.
All this being said how can you deny that china is infact a non religious state. Certainly there are none religious states who are better about tollerance (I never said that intollerance had anything to do with atheism). However if intollerance shows up in a none religious state this would show that it is a problem beyond religious affiliation. How am I wrong about that?
I didn't say anything about if they were or weren't...simply that it's their COMMUNISM that leads them to think that way. I only know one atheist that supports communism that isn't already in a communist country...also, I'm not saying that the world doesn't have issues OUTSIDE of religion. Just as before, THIS is a case for a problem that IS within religion.
I have never claimed that atheism was a cause of intollerance. I am confused as to why you would take my statement that way. Communism is certainly the most non religious general political phylosophy this was my point. That does not make it an atheist veiw. We cannot deny that communist governments tend to be the most often non religious. That does not mean they are the only ones.
In this case the problem was certainly a problem with a common american fundimentalist christian problem. This same problem does not show up in Japanese Buddhism, or Toaism, or Epistolic christian churches.
You're right squitma, intolerance has many avenues. The intolerance of the parents was, like the intolerance in so many Americans, not vilified by their religion the cornerstone of their moral standards, but their intolerance was endorsed, vivified, standardized, by their religion, the cornerstone of their moral standards. It's a good point that there are other avenues to intolerence, but let's deal with them one at a time.
no, no, no. buddhists believe in many thousands of gods (in the outermost plane of being on the wheel of samsara). they just don't consider gods to be very important (in most cases). in the buddhist tradition, everything is transient, even a god. gods will also grow old, suffer and die.
I showed a sort of friend your video and it really showed how ignorant strong Christians get when they think you are against them. He went on about how I was trying to make him against god and I would never hypnotize him like his friend. I tried to tell him that I only presented a fully reasonable argument and they saw the reasoning unlike them. Unfortunately he was not listening and rambling on how I would never control him and that I lost the battle.
No but he was obviously out of it and now I am talking to him and he doesn't remember what happened. He says,"i forget it and move on cause yesterday is silly." Also he didn't watch the video even. I just found out all that was from seeing the title of it.
That's suprisingly common. Christians have a huge capacity for blind prejudice. I saw "Dogma" and I could NOT see what all the protests were about. They've also been know to protest Harry Potter, Jesus Christ Superstar, the Wizard of Oz, Spongebob Squarepants, Scumbag, etc, all without even knowing what they're protesting against.
I've got a video called "Let's Kill Little Girls", I would hate to be the first fucktard to respond to that video because of the title alone, but I look foreward to Pwning the shit out of that guy.
A particular JACK...ass. lol. Anyway, I indeed got emotional when I heard you read that story. My parents are homophobes. I didn't think it was based on religion, but now I think it is. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
I got a question. How would the people of Sweden treat me if I went to that country and they found out that I'm a neo-Pagan?
We don't consider religion (or lack thereof) an an important issue over here. You would be treated just like every one else no matter what your wold view may be.
I second sajfen (although I'm Finnish, but the culture is sufficiently similar); probably the whole question of how people would "treat you" would seem rather nonsensical to an average Finn or Swede.
I'm a Finn as well, and as much as I'd like to agree, having witnessed teenagers openly mock and exclude their classmates for their religious nomination, I can't. Obviously it's not nearly as visible here than it is in many other places, but it's still certainly happening. This is quite obviously a non-issue to an average Lutheran here, but try being a Mormon; lol, it's brutal (I have a Mormon friend).
Hmm, but wouldn't beeing a neo-pagan more tolerated? Seeing as death metal and stuff like that is pretty big in Scandinavia (at least in Norway and Finnland)
That's an interesting question. The "most persecuted" Christian nominations would probably say yes; they'd say that these new, "trendy" religions are more accepted these days than the strict or traditional ones. I think paganism and also locally less common world religions are more accepted among young people (curiously, if I remember correctly, young people are more atheistic in general, too), but I don't think that older people even consider them that much.
Also, I have to add that I don't want to over-emphasize the condemning going on in Finland (or similar countries like Sweden, obviously). My group of best friends consisted of Lutheran, Mormon and atheist kids, for example, and it was no issue at all for us or parents. I was more trying to point that the minority religions/nominations aren't always as accepted. Chances are still very good that you wouldn't get frowned upon at all for your religion. ;)
kids pick on anyone that is different...they'd probably treat his the same way if he were overweight...but let's face a small reality here...Mormons are the joke of Christianity in AMERICA too.
I agree that it's not just all roses here either, but I deem such occurrences nevertheless quite rare, and teenage peer discrimination can't in my opinion be considered representative of the general sentiment anyway. Your experiences may certainly differ, though.
in Estonia communist symbols are prohibited. Law says - up to ~12000$ fine (average salary is little under 1000$/month) or 3 years of prison if use of these symbols leads to a life danger or conflict.
Both are democracies but they run with a strong socialized system than the US. No, socialized parts of a government aren't the same as "communism" but there are some that still see them that way. In all reality, the US has socialized institutions as well, people just like to call it different labels because they fear that term...that's why we don't have socialized medicine.
Yes, but actually, that's also true for Sweden. In fact, Estonia has become somewhat of a free-market-paradise in the last few years, with flat tax and everything - so there are less socialized parts of the government than in Sweden. In fact, Scandinavia as a whole is a prime example for what US conservatives would call "socialism", to wich we europeans can only shake our heads in disbelief ;-)
Hah, I was also wondering what difference Estonia and Sweden really have, in terms of socialized... stuff. As for shaking my head in disbelief; I just nod proudly. ;) I see the way we are, certainly working better in terms of equality, health care and education, than it does in the USA, for example.
japan is an atheist country, too. 76% of their population are nonbelievers (atheists and agnostics), while only 24% of the population are either religious, or believe in a god without religion.
BlackTokyo21 2 years ago
God is Santa Claus for adults.
ColoradoMikeyS 3 years ago 7
if christians get uncomfortable around homosexuals than it must be wrong. after all, god wouldnt make them get uncomfortable if it wasnt wrong
SprolesIsGod43 3 years ago
Using that logic, God is also a grammar Nazi. Your grammar makes me want to kill us both with the same shard of dull glass. Tell your god about it later.
punchdrunkatheist 3 years ago
ik this isnt real from the comments themselves but i was only kidding. i think the theistic position on this topic is just as ridiculous as you do.
SprolesIsGod43 3 years ago 2
I stand corrected, I'm sorry if I offended you.
punchdrunkatheist 3 years ago
dont worry about it. like i said (or at least tried to, little typo), it wasnt real evident (thats the word i forgot lol) from my comments.
SprolesIsGod43 3 years ago
i NEVER would have figured out that murder & theft are wrong without religion
SprolesIsGod43 3 years ago
I don't know much about Castro, I don't consider Castro to be such a bad guy. During the height of the Stalin terror about one half of the Soviet Communist Party Central Committee were eliminated. Communists have been the largest proportion of those directly persecuted and killed in this period. Similarly, communists were probably the largest proportion of those directly victimised and killed during Mao's "Cultural Revolution" in China. Yet you weep for the religious persecution
0Eddy 3 years ago 2
squitmaa, more likely Cuba worked better allowing freedom. Thousands died under Castro, but millions died under Juche which was deeply religious. Faith doesn't solve the issue. And if it does, then please explain the Taiping Rebellion
Here are a few marxists: Arno J. Mayer is jewish, E. P. Thompson is methodist, Pablo Neruda is roman catholic, Pete Seeger is unitarian
If you think marxism is incompatable with religion, then consider that many Christians also find evolution to be that way
0Eddy 3 years ago 2
Its funny how practically everywhere else around the world even in Europe people are tolerant of people with a homosexual background. Yet the US is still so strictly against it for some strange reason? Why is it so difficult for the US in particular to "jump on board" with everyone else?
If I remember correctly, many of the people who fled to the world came here to escape from Religious persecution, no look whats happening. The US is basically becoming the tyranny it sought to get away from!
LordMalice6d9 4 years ago
Religion has not managed to kill the number killed by atheistic murderers in the last century, the USSR killed 60 million, the PRC killed 70 million, Leopold II of Belgium killed 15 million and colonialism killed 50 million(inspired by social darwinism).
Religion is so miniscule, while people complain alot about religion and the witch trials they don't even know of events that were far worse and killed tens of millions like the an shi rebellion
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
so if someone dies of a heart attack, we shouldn't worry about cancer? Also, the examples you gave weren't people killing FOR atheism...the examples used against religion ARE examples of people killing FOR their religious belief.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
nonononono, look at it this way, we shouldn't care about the Asian Flu pandemic at a time when we have smallpox
but colonialism was inspired by social darwinism. And Enver Hoxha quite clearly did what he did specifically for atheism's sake
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
uhhh....bullshit. Could you define for me what "atheism's sake" is? Atheism isn't a "thing" to HAVE a "sake"...just like there is no such THING as an a-plumber or an a-physicist. Ever noticed that all of your examples are totalitarian dictatorships? Do you think THAT might have something to do with it?
KingHeathen 4 years ago
ok fine, call it "anti-theism's" sake if it makes you feel better, my point is that they were extremely anti-religious. This also makes a totally unwarranted distinction of just a mere lack of belief to sheer certainty that God is absent, which causes people to kill
Hitler also had a dictatorship, yet atheists repeatedly claim that the Holocaust should be blamed on Christianity, not dictatorship. I might as well dismiss all religious wars as a result of dictatorship
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
ALL atheism IS is a LACK OF BELIEF. NO WHERE in the definition of "atheism" is the phrase "God is absent" ever used. Nor does my confidence that your god is in fact nowhere to be found make me want to kill, so I still say bullshit.
Good point on Hitler, but Hitler used scripture to justify his claims. I DO NOT think that it was his Christianity that made him do it. But he did use religion to gain support.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Atheism is the opposite of theism, seems to me like there's an opposition here. According to the dictionary atheism is a doctrine, immorality, and a rejection of God. Take that with whatever weight you want
The Inquisition also had a dictatorship, why won't you also dismiss it for it was just dictatorship in action.
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
also what did dictatorship had to do with say the French Revolution, the Jacobins and some other individual atheists who sheerly oppose religion?, here's one example:
renewamerica(.)us(/)columns(/)hagin(/)051115
Quite clearly, if they were religious this would not have happened
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
"Quite clearly, if they were religious this would not have happened" - you don't know that. In fact, it isn't even true. If that were the case then Muslims wouldn't fight Hindus, Christians wouldn't have tortured the Jews and Pagans, etc.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
The examples i gave you far exceed all religious wars combined. Just look at the top atrocities, surely if Enver Hoxha was religious he wouldn't claim that albanian is the world first atheist state. If these people were religiou this wouldn't have happened, more people have died in the last century than all pre-century wars combined
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
uh...that's because there are MORE PEOPLE! Stronger weapons! Was Moses religious? Because he committed a few genocides too if you believe the story. And despite your ridiculous claims that NOT believing in a god made people fight...you are saying this like it JUSTIFIES the religious wars that have happened. It's like if someone complained about a war being fought over oil, you responded with "But more people died fighting communism."
KingHeathen 4 years ago
people from ancient times had no problem killing huge numbers. Take the an shi rebellion as an example, it killed 36 million people, no guns whatsoever, the Mongol Conquests killed 40 million. Why don't we see such bloody wars because of religion?, it's not like religion disappeared when the population went higher
And regarding weapons, Mao killed 20 million just from forced labour, no guns. Stalin&Mao mainly relied on primitive methods
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
tell ya, what...let's go with the "why don't we see this today" approach...
Where are the atheist atrocities today? There are many secular nations, some with atheist populations over 80%...and yet, they are peaceful. Meanwhile, America with the reverse trend of 80% Christians has a murder rate that eclipses all other developed nations.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
We do, not a long time ago Fidel Castro killed tens of thousands(and perhaps as many as 100 thousand) people in Cuba and he declared he was an atheist
The only atheistic/secular country with the possibility of having over 80% atheists is Sweden, however this static is just plain wrong:
The government here collects two small taxes on behalf of the churches to cover funeral costs etc.
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
Until fairly recently (the last decade or so) all this was an opt-out tax, not an opt-in one, and all registered members of a church paid it. The catch was, unless you said so at the registration of the birth, you were by default a registered member of the Swedish national church (ie, a Lutheran).
the only way to leave this was to declare yourself officially an atheist. That's why they keep record of these things, it's important
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
It doesn't justify them, it's just that they are very miniscule, the witch trials are remembered by everyone while major wars like the an shi is forgotten
Sorry for being a pain in the neck but i have to agree with the example you gave. I didn't get your point, unless of course you want a response to why there were so many wars in the name of religion
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
no...the point is that you can't justify one war by talking about another...it's the equivalent of me hitting you because Jim hit Joe. In the end, if there is a thing that people use to justify killing, then it needs to be addressed...not ignored because someone else used a different reason to kill MORE people.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Why can't I call that thing Atheism, it's not a coincidence that the biggest tyrants in history(Mao&Stalin) were atheists. The third is actually Khubali Khan that killed tens of millions during the Mongol Conquests, he was a Buddhist, but you'll probably won't accept him as an atheist
As for why bad things happen in the name of religion. They just were religious, but they didn't do it because of religion.
socrates58(.)blogspot(.)com(/)2006(/)11(/)inquisition-crusades-catholic-scandals(.)html
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
it's not a coincidence? Are you certain of that? You don't think that the fact that they were totalitarian dictators, each and every one, might have had more to do with it? Hitler fits that category as well. However, when a religious person does these things, they use the religion to garner support. The atheist can't make a statement like "I'm doing the lack of a god's work!" Atheism has no dogma to be pushed.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
What totalitarianism did the French Revolution or the Russian Civil War have?
Stalin wanted to eradicate religion and therefore he wanted absolute power, and he gained it by portraying himslf as God-like, that what happens when human try to take the place of God
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
STRAWMAN! I'm not saying ALL WAR. Good call on Stalin, in totalitarian dictatorships, the dictator is seen as "god-like"...they BECOME the religion. Thanks for making my point for me.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
That wasn't a religion, it was ideology, Marxism mixed with a few elements of the ideas of Stalin. You can't blame the crimes of atheism on religion. and what about pol pot?, he had no personality cult at all, what "religion" in action was there?
What did the revolutionary atheistic wars get to be blamed on then?, how do you explain Lenin?
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
WHOA WHOA WHOA! How do you figure that you can start off with a word like "ideology" and then abandon that and insert "crimes of atheism on religion"...damn, you just don't get it.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Because Atheism is a philosophy, fact, when religiousity declined over 200 million people died in the last century alone. That's not a coincidence, there were many evil dictators but none match the dictators of te last century
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
"atheism" isn't a "philosophy"...it's the lack of a particular type of philosophy. BTW, religiosity is declining now in many countries in Europe and they STILL aren't even remotely close to the murder rate of America or the Middle East...nor are their rates on the rise. Not even COMMUNIST CHINA comes close. As to "the last century"...there are many things that don't compare to the last century...I think it's safe to say the difference is the times we live in.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
All of America's and the middle east murder rate combined are meaningless in the face of Communist China, it has killed 100 million people. No contest
Difference in the times we live in?, sorry, religion didnt disappear in the last century, we should have expected a religious war yet the Holocaust and Islamic extremism are insignificant to what Communism did just in the last century.
Look at the top 4 atrocities, Red China, USSR, two world wars. No religion involved
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
way to miss the point ENTIRELY.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
you want me to remove wars
Sorry, wars are crimes. Deal with it, The USA is a major superpower yet it killed at max 2 million. Compare that to Communist China bloody history
And look at deeply anti-religious countries like godless albania, then talk about how proud you are that in some unknown countries of atheists are doing fine
The murder rate in Russia was much higher when atheism ruled, communism gives equal to all which made people lazy, on the other hand we have a reward, Heaven
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
"communism gives equal to all which made people lazy, on the other hand we have a reward, Heaven" - so explain to me then why guys like myself and even better examples like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are so successful WITHOUT a belief in a "heaven"? You are twisting your own thoughts to fit this warped logic you are trying to argue.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Bill Gates is a wolf, and I bewlieve he quite recently stopped working. Bad example, why are you so proud of putting him to your category?
I believe Warren Buffet is an agnostic theist, not exactly an atheist
Compare that however to other examples of atheists violence such as the Russian Civil war that killed 9 million, China during the Nationalist Era, the Koreabn&Vietnam war that killed as many as 6 million
These are only a few examples
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
"These are only a few examples" and the only examples you have. Buffet is an atheist, he said so himself. BTW, agnostic theist is an oxymoron.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
agnostic theist was described in Dawkins book "The God Delusion", it's not an oxymoron
Buffet sai alot of things like that Jesus was the first socialist and invoked God at times
These aren't the only examples I have. There are others like USSR, Nazi Germany, and the PRC
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
thinking that Jesus may have been a real person but not a god doesn't make you a theist. Do you have an example that uses a democratically elected government and not a totalitarian dictator?
KingHeathen 4 years ago
He's an agnostic theist, deal with it. He certainly wasn't an atheist, there are other quotes that affirm this like:
"Risk is a part of God's game, alike for men and nations." - Warren Buffett
Atheists love to claim that famous people like Angelina Jolie are atheists. Fact, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to prove that claim
Yes, certainly, the French Revolution
But then again people will always find an excuse:
users(.)erols(.)com(/)mwhite28(/)demowar(.)htm
Lastly, atheism = dictatorship
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
"He's an agnostic theist, deal with it." - based on your mere assertions? Get over yourself.
and more proof that you are no longer worth the effort...that last line is the most retarded thing I've ever seen you post....and that's saying a LOT!
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Mikhail Gorbachev:
"Surely, God on high has not refused to give us enough wisdom to find ways to bring us an improvement in relations between the two great nations on earth."
"Jesus was..the first to seek a better life for mankind."
You still produced no evidence, something most atheists do when they present an argument from authority
Lenin, Trotsy, Hoxha and other atheist politicians did so. I challenge you to give me an atheist who had a chance for dictatorship but didn't do it
Hot0Water0Heater 4 years ago
tell me, do you know of any kind of horrible disease such as smallpox or the bubonic plague that could have been eradicated easier if religion didn't keep slowing down science?
hoshigalelu 4 years ago
I keep saying I'm going to do a video on religions henderence on the bubonic plague...but I keep putting it off.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
it would be great if you could do one the next 3 days or so
What's your plan for your next video?
hoshigalelu 4 years ago
I have several. I'm trying to decide which to start with.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
where exactly in the bible is murder promoted? Give me the scripture and I'll look it up myself.
baldylox76 4 years ago
Check out the OT...I doubt you can get through a single page of Leviticus, Dueteronomy, or Judges without finding an example.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
lol
jscience 4 years ago
You can use anything you want to justify your hate. If I kill in the name of Evolution lets say (Collumbine), is it Evolution's fault? Does evolution really teach murder is fine?
Lets go to the incident now. Does the Bible teach torture as fine? If someone does it in the Bible's name, is it automatically the Bible's fault.
It isn't and I think the emphasis should be on the misguided, sick-minded parents instead.
WatchGuy7 4 years ago
didn't say "bible"...I said religion. "Evolution" doesn't have doctrine to DO anything. A "religion" is formed as people make their interpretations of some idea. That "idea" gives them AUTHORITY to do the things that they have decided to follow.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Sure it does. Only the strong should survive. Hitler thought it was the duty of the strong to trample the weak. Evolution invokes many ideas that people act on.
And throwing the Bible into some sort of Religion Collective enrages me to no end. Tell me, when you were a Christian, did you ever think of converting to Islam? Well why not! Aren't they both the same!
WatchGuy7 4 years ago
AGAIN, evolution doesn't have a "doctrine", so any ideas he gathered were HIS OWN. As to Islam, I looked at MANY different religions including that one...and yes, they are the same.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Interesting. It seems that when a non-communist country is religious it has the same level of bigotry and prejudice as an atheist communist country. Does this mean that religion is as bad as communism in terms of reduction of morality?
BobTKaye 4 years ago
Understand that the statement was purely an analytical one; and I don't find it necessary to explain what I thought was in context. Don't cherry pick me.
WatchGuy7 4 years ago
I'm arguing from the perspective of the parents. Their judgements were grossly radical considering the principles.
I'm saying that it is wrong Biblically which is the stand-point the parents were taking...right?
If you want to argue whether or not the Bible is right on this issue, you can press that later. But I thought we were talking about the judgements made by the parents.
WatchGuy7 4 years ago
the issue isn't what your opinion of the correct version of the Bible is or my opinion on if the Bible is right on the issue...it's simply that these people are using it to justify their hate. And when a preacher spreads this hate in a sermon, it could lead others to think the same way. My daughter goes to school with a girl that said she hates gay people because her "preacher said...."
KingHeathen 4 years ago
yes but being anti-theistic is still not the same as being atheist, one can be anti-theistic towards all other religions while still believing in your own, this is the case when a totalitarian country is run by a theist, evidence...germany 1934-45.
TheFarcicalCourt 4 years ago
You can absolutely say that the parents were wrong without saying the Bible is wrong. Homosexuality is wrong. But that doesn't justify torture, and unrighteous treatment of their children.
WatchGuy7 4 years ago
how is homosexuality "wrong"? What do you care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home?
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Totalitarianism can definitely exist without a supernatural basis, but the fear of infinite torture is a far greater manipulator than any finite threat even the most powerful mortal dictator can make. The authority from god also serves as the perfect justification for any idea no matter how contradictory and revolting. Religion is a catalyst for totalitarianism, it makes it easier to achieve.
theinquisitor 4 years ago
JACK...ass. lol
HumbleYankee 4 years ago
Dogma was a good movie. BUDDY CHRIST FTW!
HumbleYankee 4 years ago
I am so sick of people blaming Atheism for China and and just dismissing the fact taht they're Communist. It's like Atheism is this evil force that's to blame for everything and Communism is just a coincidence.
Actually I've been thinking about it, and *I've come to the conclusion that a Social Philosophy is basically a Religiuon without the mytholong.
dechha1981 4 years ago
To be clear I didn't blame atheism for China. King Heathen Missed what said. I said non relgious. Communism is certainly anti-relgious (chapter 2 communist manifesto). I would say there are good and bad social philosophies. To be a religion they should deal with spriituality. Also there is good and bad spirituality.
squitmaa 4 years ago
Not true, I recommend you'll wiki "religious communism" and "Christian communism". If you mean that paticular communism of Marxism is anti-religious(and thus religion is the solution) then the answer is again no, I can give you several religious marxists.
Stalin's seminary training influenced the style of his tyranny, and Russia's history of divinely ordained autocrats assisted the Communist consolidation of power
Juche(communist) deals with spirituality, the 2 Korean leaders came from heaven
0Eddy 3 years ago
Notice that you have to add modifiers to make communism religious. In it's purest form it is not. In all honest I will admit it is rare that we ever talk about anything in its purest form. Stalin is a fun study in relgion and communism. In his early years he rejected it, then during war he liked it. Regardless of his label he was certainly a manipulative duche.
squitmaa 3 years ago
No not really. Just go to adherents dot com and what do you find, Juche!, gee, who knew the ideology of North Korea is a religion?
adherents(.)com(/)largecom(/)Juche(.)html
Math is also not religious, apparently I lost your point when you say that communism is not necessarily religious, please explain
I heared alot of times that Stalin rejected it, but I never found evidence for that claim, and I have a little evidence against it. My point is that communism can be deeply religious
0Eddy 3 years ago
Stalin used religion when it suited his needs, the people that Stalin killed were killed in the name of the absolute power of Stalin, atheists and Christians alike, he had no problem being bad to atheists(like Trotsky), or being good to Christians like clergyman Hewlett Johnson, the winner of the Stalin's prize. There are many paintings that portray Stalin as a saint and as a sun God, and "his works were influenced by a distinctly Biblical style"
refrence: Inside the Kremlin's Cold War
0Eddy 3 years ago
Juche is a psudo religious political phylosophy based on communism, Marx is the one who defined communism. Chapter 2 of the communist Manifesto clearly condemns religion as harmful to state. Communism without religion failed in Russia mid- WW II and it also failed in Cuba. people today who still like Marxes Ideas realize that people in a society do better with religion. Therefore modern communism requires modifiers.
squitmaa 3 years ago
As for Stalin he was a master of propoganda, and there is no denying that he learned most of that from the Roman Catholic Church. It is difficult to say what percentage of its propoganda was for government purpose and what percent was for religious faith. We should learn from Catholic history that church and state should be seperate. Faith in the hand of a Tyrant is dangerous. But we learned from early communism that a people deprived of faith is a people deprived of hope.
squitmaa 3 years ago
According to wikipedia Juche is the "state-sponsored religion of North Korea", take that with whatever weight you want. And are you saying that Juche isn't true communism?, if so why doesn't Stalinism apply?, it certainly advocated things Marxism was opposed to like nationalism and dictatorship. Communism is the equality of people. Thus, if in any case, an emperor or exacting ruler exists, it isnt communism anymore.
"without religion" is an inaccurate term, it was secular, to quote your advice
0Eddy 3 years ago
"church and state should be seperate", I agree, I already showed you the influence religion had during Stalin's reign
Regarding Cuba, to quote Castro "I never saw a contradiction between the ideas that sustain me and the ideas of that symbol, of that extraordinary figure, Jesus Christ"
If you're saying that Castro's violence was because of his atheism, then how do you explain the Taiping rebellion? with +20 million deaths, put simply religious communism doesn't solve the problem
0Eddy 3 years ago
Stalin himself didn't kill anyone, the russians did, most of which were believers, so even if your assertion that Stalin was an atheist is granted, it proves nothing. And there is no doubt that he was partly motivated to do what he did due to his religious background
the problem of the 20th century atrocities is not being critical of faith, it was a promotion of it. It required worship, during the Mao Zedong worship people were burning joss sticks and praying. It established moral absolutes
0Eddy 3 years ago
"The only good bourgeois is a DEAD bourgeois" - pol pot
It has many anti-scientific campaigns that were passed off as more than just some improvement, it will be a MIRACLE, it "will turn our country into a superpower", even though they had good evidence it would be a disaster. It had a powerful point of focus, Stalin is more than just a human being, he's a sun God, Mao is the "red sun in our hearts", they deeply believed they must sacrifice DREAMS and HOPES in the name of the state
0Eddy 3 years ago
Time changes a man's perspective. Both Stalin and Castro started there reign with a "Great Purge". An attack on anything that supported a Bourgeois class. In both cases this included closing churches, religious school, imprisoning or killing religious leaders ect. This was Marx's intention. Later Stalin (1942)and Castro (1992) both came to the relization that religion is good for the masses. This is when they departed from "traditional" communism.
squitmaa 3 years ago
Keep in mind also that state religion is not what was introduced in these situations. Since 1992 many faiths thrive in Cuba (Protestant, Catholism, Judaism, ect). It is also intersting to note that prior to 1992 Castro called Cuban an Athiest state. Since 1992 he has changed to title to secular. Does this mean he thought being an athiest made him violent No. It means he saw that the word athiest could not be applied to his society successfully. Cuba worked better allowing faith.
squitmaa 3 years ago 2
you said that only 23% of sweden believe in god yet you critisized china because although they didn't believe in god they were religious. Why is that?, why not do the same to sweden to what you did to china?. 53% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force", why do you consider this as atheism?
hoshigalelu 4 years ago
Sweden ranks aside with France and Russia on having a large minority of its citizens who have no religion. Russia is actually a good example
hoshigalelu 4 years ago
Minority? Sweden's atheistic population is very close to 50% (I think 46%) which is technically a minority, but not for long.
I think Japan is the only country with a majority that is non-religious, but since they don't track their religious demographics, I can't be sure
rowsdowersavesus 4 years ago
North and South Korea has no official religion, but while S.Korea is democratic and are becoming very liberal, half of the country ascribes to no religion, while N.Korea, a communist (the last Maoist communist country ((China isn't communist at all anymore))) doesn't acknoweldge a God but worships the Communist leaders vivaciously, who starve the people, feed them lies and allow them no political power.
Kalot666 4 years ago
It's illogical to fully believe a story a stranger emails you with no evidence as to whether it's true or not.
OmniSurveyor 4 years ago
Censorship! You know what's interesting is what would take you probably not even 500 words to explain, you simply criticize my knowledge by telling me that I'm stupid and I'm expecting too much out of you when these are blatant excuses in my eyes. I already checked out the sites and have responses, but if I do give you one, you'll either claim to have responded to it or say I'm stupid. And the great thing is since this is not a PM Censorship not FTW!! WHOOO. I btw have more questions, yes or no?
geeuho 4 years ago
Non religeous and atheist are not the same thing. I never made the statement that China was a atheist country, you put words in my mouth. Communist is the best example because to be truly communist you must be non religious, if these problems can come from communism they have more causes than just religion.
squitmaa 4 years ago
As for Sweden it was a Lutheran state until 2000. You also skiped over the 56% who believed in a higher power just not the Lutheran God. Further the majority of there anti hate legislation was done in 1987. They got passed hate before they got rid of state religion go figure.
squitmaa 4 years ago
As for Sweden getting rid of state religion only recently, it's in my opinion a case of not bothering to fix it because it wasn't broken in any effective way; in general people in the Nordic countries already draw a distinction between church and state by themselves (even religious people). An explicit law for that is largely redundant.
naphra2 4 years ago
You are correct however it is still interesting to note that these cultures also developed largely with chrisitian thought. There are good ways and bad ways to use relgion.
squitmaa 4 years ago
You are correct, although I think it's worthwhile to make the disambiguation that the Nordic countries have been almost exclusively Lutheran ever since the Reformation, and not, say, Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.
naphra2 4 years ago
Good point. I do like to be specific.
squitmaa 4 years ago
Isn't Cuba communist? Aren't they a majority Catholic? Communism is about your economy and government...religion is irrelevant.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
read chapter 2 of the communist manifesto. Summery Religion is a insturment of the Buurgeois to control the lower class. To have a equal society we must abolish all religion. Futher Castro did not allow religion in Cuba until 1991. He closed hundreds of catholic schools and churches in the 60's.
squitmaa 4 years ago
read the constitution of the United States....then read the Amendments to it...then read the laws that go alone with it...see things can change. And while ONE MAN'S VISION of communism and what it should be and how it should be run may say one thing...the CORE IDEA of communism is that the government owns everything...that's about it. Religion has nothing to do with "being communist"
KingHeathen 4 years ago
just a nit pick,but i think the core idea is that the people own everything colectivly,the goverment is just supposed to manage it.
NemoUtopian 4 years ago
Religion has nothing to do with being communist, but communism has a lot to de with not being religious. Certaily communism is not the only source of anti-theisistic beliefs, but as a belief system it is no doubt anti-theistic.
squitmaa 4 years ago
come on stubby...communism is an economic structure. My son just studied it in Social Studies. There is capitalism, communism/socialism/ etc. Religion was just a small part that Marx saw as a blockade due to the theocracies that existed back then. It's all irrelevant now.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Communism is an economic structure, religion was a small part of Marx's ideas this is true. That doesn't change the fact that Russia and Cuba both closed many churches while establishing communist rule, or that China still imprisions and deports people for being missionaries. I don't think irrelevant is an accurate term.
squitmaa 4 years ago
All this being said how can you deny that china is infact a non religious state. Certainly there are none religious states who are better about tollerance (I never said that intollerance had anything to do with atheism). However if intollerance shows up in a none religious state this would show that it is a problem beyond religious affiliation. How am I wrong about that?
squitmaa 4 years ago
I didn't say anything about if they were or weren't...simply that it's their COMMUNISM that leads them to think that way. I only know one atheist that supports communism that isn't already in a communist country...also, I'm not saying that the world doesn't have issues OUTSIDE of religion. Just as before, THIS is a case for a problem that IS within religion.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
I have never claimed that atheism was a cause of intollerance. I am confused as to why you would take my statement that way. Communism is certainly the most non religious general political phylosophy this was my point. That does not make it an atheist veiw. We cannot deny that communist governments tend to be the most often non religious. That does not mean they are the only ones.
squitmaa 4 years ago
In this case the problem was certainly a problem with a common american fundimentalist christian problem. This same problem does not show up in Japanese Buddhism, or Toaism, or Epistolic christian churches.
squitmaa 4 years ago
You're right squitma, intolerance has many avenues. The intolerance of the parents was, like the intolerance in so many Americans, not vilified by their religion the cornerstone of their moral standards, but their intolerance was endorsed, vivified, standardized, by their religion, the cornerstone of their moral standards. It's a good point that there are other avenues to intolerence, but let's deal with them one at a time.
Kalot666 4 years ago
Hmmm.. You should make a video about people repressed by religion.... ironic, isn't it?
Gahagafaga 4 years ago
Buddhists actually do believe in God... They just call it something else.
Ryansarcade9 4 years ago
I thought Buddhists didn't believe in any deities.
MatasakoScar 4 years ago
It depends on the sect, I think. Some are atheistic, others not so much.
lumikitten 4 years ago
They don't, but they do believe in a divine being.
miyamotofan 4 years ago
Exactly. Taoists and Buddhists alike pretty much believe in God, but have a different and more advanced (more civilized) concept of it.
Ryansarcade9 4 years ago
no, no, no. buddhists believe in many thousands of gods (in the outermost plane of being on the wheel of samsara). they just don't consider gods to be very important (in most cases). in the buddhist tradition, everything is transient, even a god. gods will also grow old, suffer and die.
howlingmadhowie 4 years ago
I showed a sort of friend your video and it really showed how ignorant strong Christians get when they think you are against them. He went on about how I was trying to make him against god and I would never hypnotize him like his friend. I tried to tell him that I only presented a fully reasonable argument and they saw the reasoning unlike them. Unfortunately he was not listening and rambling on how I would never control him and that I lost the battle.
TheudFox 4 years ago
wow...at least he didn't call you a "demon possessed by Satan!"
...Did he?
KingHeathen 4 years ago
No but he was obviously out of it and now I am talking to him and he doesn't remember what happened. He says,"i forget it and move on cause yesterday is silly." Also he didn't watch the video even. I just found out all that was from seeing the title of it.
TheudFox 4 years ago
That's suprisingly common. Christians have a huge capacity for blind prejudice. I saw "Dogma" and I could NOT see what all the protests were about. They've also been know to protest Harry Potter, Jesus Christ Superstar, the Wizard of Oz, Spongebob Squarepants, Scumbag, etc, all without even knowing what they're protesting against.
dechha1981 4 years ago
I've got a video called "Let's Kill Little Girls", I would hate to be the first fucktard to respond to that video because of the title alone, but I look foreward to Pwning the shit out of that guy.
dechha1981 4 years ago
A particular JACK...ass. lol. Anyway, I indeed got emotional when I heard you read that story. My parents are homophobes. I didn't think it was based on religion, but now I think it is. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
I got a question. How would the people of Sweden treat me if I went to that country and they found out that I'm a neo-Pagan?
UltimoJ 4 years ago
We don't consider religion (or lack thereof) an an important issue over here. You would be treated just like every one else no matter what your wold view may be.
sajfen 4 years ago
I second sajfen (although I'm Finnish, but the culture is sufficiently similar); probably the whole question of how people would "treat you" would seem rather nonsensical to an average Finn or Swede.
naphra2 4 years ago
I'm a Finn as well, and as much as I'd like to agree, having witnessed teenagers openly mock and exclude their classmates for their religious nomination, I can't. Obviously it's not nearly as visible here than it is in many other places, but it's still certainly happening. This is quite obviously a non-issue to an average Lutheran here, but try being a Mormon; lol, it's brutal (I have a Mormon friend).
lumikitten 4 years ago
Hmm, but wouldn't beeing a neo-pagan more tolerated? Seeing as death metal and stuff like that is pretty big in Scandinavia (at least in Norway and Finnland)
Killersepp 4 years ago
That's an interesting question. The "most persecuted" Christian nominations would probably say yes; they'd say that these new, "trendy" religions are more accepted these days than the strict or traditional ones. I think paganism and also locally less common world religions are more accepted among young people (curiously, if I remember correctly, young people are more atheistic in general, too), but I don't think that older people even consider them that much.
lumikitten 4 years ago
Also, I have to add that I don't want to over-emphasize the condemning going on in Finland (or similar countries like Sweden, obviously). My group of best friends consisted of Lutheran, Mormon and atheist kids, for example, and it was no issue at all for us or parents. I was more trying to point that the minority religions/nominations aren't always as accepted. Chances are still very good that you wouldn't get frowned upon at all for your religion. ;)
lumikitten 4 years ago
Thanks for the clarification, that would sound familiar to me as well.
naphra2 4 years ago
kids pick on anyone that is different...they'd probably treat his the same way if he were overweight...but let's face a small reality here...Mormons are the joke of Christianity in AMERICA too.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
I agree that it's not just all roses here either, but I deem such occurrences nevertheless quite rare, and teenage peer discrimination can't in my opinion be considered representative of the general sentiment anyway. Your experiences may certainly differ, though.
naphra2 4 years ago
Right on when it comes to Sweden. I am strongly considering moving there, especially if the U.S. keeps moving in its current direction.
phoenixshade3 4 years ago
You are always welcome to live in my basement =)
sajfen 4 years ago
5 stars, as usual.
madeleinekay 4 years ago
in Estonia communist symbols are prohibited. Law says - up to ~12000$ fine (average salary is little under 1000$/month) or 3 years of prison if use of these symbols leads to a life danger or conflict.
ogbash 4 years ago
Jag älskar Svergie!
BTW: What did you mean by "Estonia and the Czech republic are in between"?
Killersepp 4 years ago
Both are democracies but they run with a strong socialized system than the US. No, socialized parts of a government aren't the same as "communism" but there are some that still see them that way. In all reality, the US has socialized institutions as well, people just like to call it different labels because they fear that term...that's why we don't have socialized medicine.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Yes, but actually, that's also true for Sweden. In fact, Estonia has become somewhat of a free-market-paradise in the last few years, with flat tax and everything - so there are less socialized parts of the government than in Sweden. In fact, Scandinavia as a whole is a prime example for what US conservatives would call "socialism", to wich we europeans can only shake our heads in disbelief ;-)
Killersepp 4 years ago
Hah, I was also wondering what difference Estonia and Sweden really have, in terms of socialized... stuff. As for shaking my head in disbelief; I just nod proudly. ;) I see the way we are, certainly working better in terms of equality, health care and education, than it does in the USA, for example.
lumikitten 4 years ago
ah...interesting...and even better because Estonia is #2 on the list right now.
KingHeathen 4 years ago
Denmark (where, incidentally, I live) works very well as well, as an example of an atheistic country (I know we gotta be in the top ten somewhere).
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago 3