This video is really absurd. It does not mention that after the WW1 one third of the German lands were given to France, Poland, Czech republic, Italy....
It is absurd to demand loyality towards the occupying countries. The treaty of Versailles was a joke.
Greets from South Tyrol. (I have nothing against Italians, but we are not Italians and should be able to determine our own future)
@AustrianAtheist yes, thats true, but, as a czech, when germany have lost the WW1, they didnt give us anything, that Austria-Hungary has gived us a land to have our own state... Sorry for english, but i had to say that
Please don't get me wrong. I love czech people, I want peace and I do not want to redo history.
That being said, why was Sudetenland, Boehmerwald given to the Czechoslovakia in 1919? It was nearly 100% German? 3 millions Germans/Austrians live there. So why was it not given to German-Austria? And they did not get any autonomy... Even many czechs at that time, did not agree with this policy! I will never understand, why this gets never mentioned in western media.
Which historical borders? We were both ruled by Habsburg? National identities did never exist for the nobility. Monarchy was destroyed with the argument that "each people should rule itself"
But then 3,5 million Germans were forced to live with 6,5 million Czechoslovaks in one czechoslovak state, withput any minority rights. The German social democrats could not achieve any compromise. The mountain-argument just shows that they knew in 1919 that the German people would want freedom. :(
The winners of WWI knew Germany was dangerous. The WWI was a shock that noone wanted to repeat. So it was strategical to assume Czechoslovakian western borders within the historical Lands of Czech Crown.
I have read that minorities in Cz-kia had their rights based on resident percentage. There were no violent raids on Germans, like in Germany on Jews. And I am pretty sure that WWII was not about liberating Germans in Czechoslovakia.
So now you blame WWI only on Germany? You cannot be serious! Austria-Hungary, Russia, all mayor powers were to blame for WWI, not only Germany.
Of course Germany after 1933 was much worse than Czechoslovakia ever was and yes, all these shameful Nazi-crimes happened, but I think the occupation of East Prussia/Sudetenland/.. by Poland/Czechoslovakia also led to a rise of German nationalism.
I live in South Tyrol, We like Italians, but why are we still occupied by Italy since 1919?
I am sorry. You are absolutely right regarding the WWI problem, I just focused on the Sudeten part. Czechoslovakia had conflicts with Poland and Hungary too. Even now Czech Rep. "occupies" a small former part of Poland. Interesting point of yours about S. Tyrol, I never realized this.
To be short: I have my personal reasons to feel that not everything is rightful here. Borders move. But I would like to see Europe united for the problems that are about to come.
Well Sudetenland was not part of Germany, but after monarchy broke up in 1918, Austria claimed it and the people were Germans and felt occupied since then. Is it not true?
I despise Hitler ofc, but it is absurd, how this film plays down the fate of the occupied people of Sudetenland.
@KarlosTheMighty Oh yes, it was. The Protektorát had a higher life expectancy from 1939-1945 than Czechoslovakia in 1937. All facts. Material and scientifically proven facts. Of course anti-German Communists and other Czechs (who suddenly switched sides in April and May 1945 only, out of opportunism and possibility to steal all Germans' wealth and immobile properties) now allege it was different.
@IustitiaPax : higher life expectancy? :D Its not brainwash you asshole, thats experiance that had my OWN family. Only fact here is you are nazi asshole.
@KarlosTheMighty Our discussion ends here, as you resort to insults. You cannot refute my accurate and historically objective statements based on objective statistics, facts and the overall experience. Your family cannot have had another experience than the general Czech populace, unless they were males from Lidice or Lezaky. But the 1944 Putten reprisals also do not refute the fact, that occupation in the Netherlands was generally moderate and created an economic boom initially.
@IustitiaPax : I am insulting because this is never been discussion you are lieing over and over and denying everything what anybody tells and marks it as communist or panslavic propaganda. You are even telling me, what my own family experienced :D My grandfather was convicted to death by fucking wermacht (luckily escaped) and my grandmother was deported to Berlin as Totaleinsatz. Czechoslovakia was one of richest countrys in region. Every historic nows it, thats why you are stupid fuck :)
@KarlosTheMighty Condemned to death by "fucking Wehrmacht". When? At what time? In what circumstances? The Protektorát had no military occupation, as it was integral part of the Reich itself. And your grandfather "escaped". Hardly a credible story. Your grandmother was deported under "Totaleinsatz"? This word never existed. You mean Arbeitseinsatz? So were 100,000s of Dutch men. And the Czech workers in Germany had a good life. I will send you a video about Czech workers in Berlin.
@KarlosTheMighty Search for "Zábavná představení pro české dělníky v Berlíně" (video). The Czech workers had entertainment, music evenings, housing, a salary. You are clearly brainwashed. And claiming victimhood of 'the evil Germans' during the Czechoslovak Communist system was opportunistic and 'heroic'.
@IustitiaPax : Once again you fucker, my own grandmother was there and there was no fucking entertainment, she worked hard and almost died during bombing the city! So fuck you! I cant bealive you really bealive in this :D
@KarlosTheMighty Your grandmother almost died (like your grandfather 'escaped' a death sentence allegedly). So many coincidences in your story. The Allied phosphor bombing and timebomb droppings against Berlin were a fact, and many Dutch and German workers suffered too. So what is so special about your statements? You only repeat more insults and primitive language.
@KarlosTheMighty You have obviously been brainwashed. I am from Holland. I know the facts, I have researched the sites, spoken to witnesses (including many Czechs, both elderly and youth), studied statistics. The conclusions are very clear. Of course you still repeat the Benes and Gottwald-era crypto-chauvinist-Communist anti-German propaganda view. That is your 'memory'. But you are not witness. And emotional statements in the Communist era cannot era forensic and statistic facts.
@manudu20 : common man, I dont like these argues but check wikipedia, that short war against you was after Poland taked land around Tesin and it was our land, we didnt start it.
@KarlosTheMighty I'm really sorry but we have to agree to disagree. In 1919 Czech soldiers atacked Polish soldiers without waiting fot the results of the voting which was to take place.You would have lost the voting because the majority of people were Polish. That's why you later deported 100.000 Polish citizens. This is common knowledge. There's no need to look it up in the wikipedia. I don't wanna argue anymore with you my Czech brothers.
@manudu20 : well but it was just part of Bohemia Kingdom, we made our republic in our historical lands ... but I dont know, it think it was pretty hard to split such a huge empire like Austro Hungarian, some unsolved problems camed on surface ... but yes, this is pointless, only fucker here is that stupid dutch fuck who is saying Czechs was happy in Protektorat ...
Fucking evil nation, germans stole almost every invention that czechs made. Porsche, mercedes, Wv, they all stole from Czechs, besides great wealth, weapons and land. And this traitor chamberlain will burn in hell.
....wait.....'Czecho-Slovakia'?? This piece of history is deluded, as it has all been whitewashed by Western narcissism. If Slovakia is not considered, then you can just forget about Hungary, Carpathian Ruthenia, Transylvania, Wallachia, all the former Yugoslav states....because Eastern Europe was obviously all still Austrian in this antiquated view...
from those who never got elected and only relied on their sponsors.So you are blaiming the sheep, that antagonised the wolf...2.May be in general Stalin was not naive,but in respect to Germany he was.Purge of officers was in large part work of Abwehra and Tuchaczewski fell victim to it,Stalin believed Abwehra, but not his own:)))Intil last minute in June 41 he sent large supplies to germany, that gave boost to Hitler.At outbreak soviet defence was zero,eg. no air defence at all.3 million surrend
@wladys678 Of course you know I am not going to accept as fact and without proper evidence what you call the "sponsorship" of principal Polish politicians; however, wherever the truth may be found, the Polish people can certainly NOT be blamed. Yes: during Stalin's pact large supplies were sent to Germany buying time to complete RA (red army) reforms; his mistake was in ordering RA forward into a defence line within the occupied territories against the advice of his military commanders
Yes,he says what the Germans were saying before the war - total bolony.The big lie was hitler's favourite tactic of lying.Let the guy prove what he says.Of course no killings of Germans in Poland nor Czechoslovakia took place before the war;that's all nonsense.It was exactly the other way round:
Polish minority in Germany couldn't even have its logo containing white Polish eagle and were treated like noncitizens.In Poland and Czechoslovakia there were large German minorities who acted like as if the wanted to cause problems:
:they didn't accept the existing borders,organised themselves into revisionist groups and wanted to take large parts of Poland and Czechoslovakia for Germany.In the inter-0war period,there wasn't a single year in which the Germans wouldn't sabotage the state in which they were living in and were hostile to them.Those provocations rose enormously from 1938 to 1939.In Poland,Germans were making physical brawls to artificially show to the world that Poland and Czechoslovakia are silly,
kurwafacken ,unstable countries persecuting the German minority.That was their game and most of the then public opinion and governments were supporting those ridiculous German claims.Nothing could have been further from the truth.In the 1939,scores of provocations took place in Poland,at the hands of the German minority,whose 20% belonged to the hitlerite party and basically all supported the III Reich.Countless German border violations,
counterfitting Polish currency (like in mid XVIIIth century),placing bombs in public places (I know that in late August 1939 a bomb went off in Tarnów railway station killiing and injuring many people),Germans were destroying their own meeting places,homes and factories to 'prove' how much they were being persecuted.After all,hitler himself said before the Gleiwitz provocation in August 31st 1939:I don't care whether the world will believe it,I must have some casus belli.
The world doesn't judge victors'.Not to mention the Free City of Gdańsk,which was a Polish protectorate and didn't return to Poland from Germany when Germany occupied it in 1793 or the all-out badmouthing of Poland by Germany in world press and calling it a 'seasonal state'.In Germany,everything Polish was outrageously villified as the worst that can be and a normal work of Polish minority organisations was impossible from the very start in 1918.Germans have had this tendency
Trash talking Polak. Poland threatened minorities before WW2, germans and mostly ukrainians. Thats why Ukrainians hate you so much. Polish ppl always try to act like innocents. Danzig was ruled by The Deutscher Orden and were member of the Hanse long before polish supremacy in 1454. The whole eastern territories poland stole after WW2 belongs historically to germany. Pommern Schlesien Ostpreußen parts of Westpreußen
,Drezno (Dresden),Chociebuż (Cottbus),Budziszyn (Bautzen) where our king Bolesłąw I Chrobry kicked your germie asses,also:Wołogoszcz (Wolgast),Lipsk (Lepizig),Potdąb (Potsdam),Górę (Gera) etc.That's where you shit-eaters belong:west of the Łaba!Oh and by the way:1/4 of your herrenvolk are Slavs from the land of the Obodrites,Wielketies,Polabians and other Slavic tribes:-)
Kopanica (Kopenick) in Bralin (Berlin)was a place in which Slavs sold germAN slaves to the jews ha ha.
I won't even waste my time speaking to a stupig germAn.Gdańsk was funded by Polish duke Mieszko I in 997 and was settled by a Polish tribe called Pommeranians before the Polish tribes formed a Polish nation under Mieszko I and Bolesław I Chrobry.germANS take your corpses west of the Łaba (Elbe) river where you belong,give us Poles back our Polish Bralin (Berlin),Jarobród (Erfurt),Lubice (Lubeck),Kieł (Kiel),Strzałę (Stralsund),
Dream u fucking retarted pussy,western from the Elbe...hahaha. U hardly deserve an own Country coz your ppl are 2 dumb to shit in a toilet.Slavic influence is an unnecessary part of eastgermanian history,nothing more.Former Slavs were uneducated peasants,just like 2day xD.Eastgermanians lived in the territory of Danzig long before Mieszko and his inzest son Bolesław invaded the area.No time anymore,my Polak bitch has 2 suck a big germanian cock, only thing she does good:)
Dreams are essential for ambitions,ambitions are essential for will and will is essentiall for action.You Germans just cannot stand the truth that you are mixed with western Slavs,can't you?I see that mute anger all the time when talking to Germans.It shows itself by accusing Poles of being Germanic peoples or mixed with Germans.Poles are the only major nation of Europe who are NOT of Germanic descent nor mixed with the Germans.That's what's bothering you.Ps.I'm not a sodomite.
Germany is a joke,.Always get your ass raped in war,and then cry 4 help from other nations (Germany in WW I and WW II).And you're cowardly bastards because you take on only much weaker nations and NEVER fight someone your own size or bigger.Only then you're so ,,brave".
Sure, war against Sovjets, Americans, British, French..altogether...but Germans just fought minor nations, for sure...I would be glad if my ancestors actually did it the way you tried to tell us..then the Sovjets wouldnt have deprived us of one third of our land...cant change history, but dont write such a nonsense
I myself am of Slavic descent...but Im German and nothing else, that doesnt trouble me, not at all. And - for sure again- Poles are a "pure race" - nuts, just have a look at Silesia, so ridiculous.. Panslavism isnt better than Pangermanism any way - just a weird idea of a bunch of racists without any cultural sensibiltiy
"We want no Czechs" - Hitler's mistake was to chose two countries that were allied with the West: Czechoslovakia and Poland. He totally missed the 3 nations that had much more to offer in support of his war machine: Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, all of which could be "persuaded" to join Germany before the Russian invasion in '41. That way he could have avoided a two front war.
@JBC814 Are you still dreaming of Hitler's attack on USSR,and only regretting it did not work? Do you realise why Germany lost so terribly? Sure, war with Russia was #1 aim of Germany & everything else was of 2nd consideration. I have my own answer, but I wish you say it first. By the way, since 1926 coup Poland was both in German and UK block,Hitler counted very much on Poland cooperation,Polish last minute pullout costed Germany a defeat. see my other post.
@wladys678 : Russia was the only country Hitler wanted. If Poland gave the corridor to Germany, he would have gone on to invade Russia and leave Poland alone, I presume. Hitler lost because he turned on the West after they invested heavily in his new regime. The West thought he was going to rid the world of communism and supported him in the beginning. Hitler lost because he made all the wrong decisions, and he was incompetent in relations with other nations. As a general he was an idiot.
@wladys678 : The war was over after the Battle of Britain because Hitler lost half of his best planes and pilots over England, and he gave Stalin more time to prepare for invasion. When he invaded Russia it was too late, and he didn't have enough planes to support the troops. Also he stopped the tanks 200 miles from Moscow, giving the Russians time to regroup. He could only lose like Napoleon even if he did make it to Moscow because his supply lines were too long. It was suicide
Hitler would not have stopped at just a Polish corridor or have you forgotten about the Sudetenland and of Czechoslovakia's fate? Hitler was power hungry and for the most part wanted everything east of Germany for his "lebensraum".
You are correct in that as a general Hitler was an idiot. Invading the USSR too late in the year then diverting forces to Stalingrad instead of taking oil fields were huge blunders.
@JBC814 But he DID persuated Hungarians and Romanians to join Germany,their forces participated in advance on Stalingrad and many other places/also Spanish and Italian forces/ .He DID NOT missed them. But WHY did Germany launch that war anyway, I think there lies the answer to why they lost it and the same regards to WW1.
@wladys678 : You are right, Hitler did annex the 3 nations of Bohemia, but that was in 1941, not in 1939, when he could have integrated them into his forces much more efficiently while avoiding war with the West by staying out of Poland. He already had Austria and Czechoslovakia, he didn't need Poland, but he did need Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria. The Black Sea was the path to the Russian oil fields to strangle Russia's oil supplies.
@JBC814 Two wars were about Russia, on this we agree.What do you mean by 3 nations of Bohemia?I've recently learned that acording to a linguist Ondrys Lysohorsky,there was a nation of Lachs in n.Moravia.Poland was key to Hitler plans anyway.It is very natural, he counted on Polish 100 divisions and since 1920 war he valued them highly. Reportedly he was giving Poland whole Ukraine and a part of Lithuania with access to Baltic in exchange for participation in war. would it counterbalance other
@wladys678 : The "3 nations of Bohemia" is just a generalization for Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria, which Hitler annexed in '41 - too late to make a difference due to his loses over England. He could have avoided war with the West by staying out of Poland, and annexing Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria instead. They all were ruled by autocrats and didn't have any alliances with the West, I believe.
@wladys678 : I know nothing of a secret deal between Hitler and Poland. Do you have a reference? If Poland already made a deal, then why did she refuse Hitler's last offer? Obviously, there was no way the West could prevent an invasion, so Poland should have accepted a deal with Hitler to prevent the war. Poland was a sitting duck, and had no army that could match Germany's. Since Hitler had already made a pact with Stalin, Poland had no other choice but to make a deal. So, why didn't she?
@JBC814 The deal between Hitler and Pilsudski was secret,but there are many indirect proofs of it.Pil.was and old time mole of Aus&Germany , his 1926 coup meant reversal of Polish policy from pro-french to pro-german.Oct.39 Hitler personally honored him at funeral mass1935,Oct.39 he ordered honor guard at his tomb.There are many proofs, but no room for them here. Polish policy since 5/1926 was dictated by Germany,usually against Poland's interest,one of them was neutralising & idling army..
@wladys678 According to Radzilowski, as far as the Poles were concerned, the problem with being "pro-French" was the instability in French politics which resulted in constant indecision about her policy toward Poland. While it is true that Pilsudski's legions fought alongside Austria against Russia until 1917, the closest he came to being "an Austrian Mole" was in a prison dungeon at Magdeburg; the mole idea is ridiculous, not only is there "no room" for proofs to the contrary, there are none.
@elrjames777 You can believe what I've said or not, there is no room here for further unfolding of this topic. All I can say it is so clear as 2+2=4. I've never heared of Mr.Radzilowski up until now, and now I've looked up to wikipedia. He looks like one of these polit-correct guys. Likely, you are not looking for truth, but rather for one of those easy polit-correct formulas, good luck, but I am unable to help you in this pursuit.
@elrjames777 one more thing. that "Magdeburg prison" was a comfortable apartment with a view to the garden and servants on call. From it he was shipped directly by government of Germany, to a "modest" post of a main "fuehrer" of Poland, arrived in Warsaw in a private car of a train, "incidently" just on November 11,1918. He was greeted at train station by three leaders of german-sponsored Poland /the triumvirate/ who swiftly passed on all the powers into him.
@wladys678 Yes: I am employing the device of hyperbole for ironic effect in referring to a Dungeon, but there is no documentary or recorded anecdotal evidence about Pilsudski being a German stooge, or mole as you would say. Radzilowski may or may not be PC, but he is certainly accurate in his French observations; for example, what mutual consultation and encouragement was there during German remilitarization of the Rhineland!! What's your view on the recent Komorowski 'Weimar Triangle' meeting?
@elrjames777 Again to your claim, that I did not condemn annexation of Zaolzie: I did, most harshly. But did you condemn annexation of Sudettenland?,If so, I did not see that. The instability of pre-war French policy is a fact. But more important is, what you might have missed a simultaneous assasination of French foreign.min.Baldour and king of Yugoslavia by a German agent and Pilsudski's coup in 1926. These two events were basis to dismantle Versaille security system. By the way, Pils.was so..
@wladys678 Yes certainly: Munich agreement was shameful and that is exactly where a friendly, rather than forced, Polish alliance could have helped, especially if backed by an otherwise vacillating UK govt; there were serious allied errors. I'll check the background to the assassinations but it seems rather tendentious conspiracy theory to me. You clearly know the Pilsudski detail; some revealing stuff here but the 'mole' idea is incredible. UK also lost its shipbuilding to EU - fishing too :-)
@elrjames777 But UK is not loosing its own English people. Do you think Poles could be cheated forever?and Poles will build other fat and rich contries instead of their own?It's enough of it. We have 23%VAT,child items incl.,currency artificially kept high to discourage competition to other countries. etc,etc.
@wladys678 Yes: I can imagine how you feel, but Polish withdrawal from EU may not be be the simple panacea you may think; she would be alone and inter-action with Germany might be even harder outside the EU; also, what of potential eastern conflicts: oil and gas pipelines, livestock and health standards etc. A bluntly risky historical postulation may be that the UK would have done better not to have declared war on Germany in 39; she lost her status as a world power and was made nearly bankrupt
@elrjames777 Generally speaking England was traditionally unfriendly to Poland since middle 17 century if not from earlier times, it gave rise and favoured Prussia /most immoral & voracious country ever/ numerous times, that later declared war on her twice. It is disgusting.
@wladys678 I agree yor1st point; Prussia+England are cousins often in alliance against their historic territorial opponents:France and her allies; one can also consider Protestant v Catholic squabbling. I concur yor 2nd only insofar as it was Bismark's aim to unite all German states under Prussian leadership (in rivalry with Austria). Yes: Poland had it tough, ringed with powerful neighbors that didn't like her much, but Pilsudski was right to try making a deal with the best of them: Austria.
@elrjames777 I agree to your two judgments,although Poland was not a mere France's ally /actually most of the time it was in anti-French alliance in 18c/but was a separate country, largest in Europe and very powerful until it got paralised in Ist quarter of 18c due to treachery of Saxon kings,who themselves were imposed. Poland had a political system, that if healed from temporary disfunction was able to transform it quickly into most powerful force on continent-that's why it was kept under lid
@elrjames777 deliberately in unrepair under a 1717 pact of 3 empires. It is not true that 3 neighbors did not like Poland, there was no animosity from Austria or Russia until partitions,only Prussia was an enemy. Pr.itself was a colony, a fief of Poland until 1671, Gdansk was faithful to Poland and in 1793 sustained 1 month long siege by Prussian army, only Russian treason made it end the resistance. Partitions were not imminent to last minute in 1795., despite what N.Davies says.
@wladys678 The Polish constitution of 1815 bound Poland to Russia through the person of the Tsar who was also constitutional king of Poland. Although it can compare unfavourably to that of 1791, rights of habeas corpus and freedom of religion and the press were preferentially conferred on Poland by Alexander but there was no guarantee they would be carried on by Nicholas I, indeed after the Polish insurrection of 1830 the heavy hand of Russian repression fell upon the Congress Kingdom.
@elrjames777 One the worst things England did to Poland was to counter Alexander Ist of Russia efforts in Vienna 1815 to rebuilt Poland under his leadership.So, as popularly called 4th partition of Poland 1815 we owe to England that took Dutchy of Poland /its historical craddle/ and Polish Pomerania with Gdansk and gifted it to Prussia, after it dropped it. "Regency of Poland" - do you mean the one that existed during WW1? It had little popular support,sorry but Poles instinctively backed Russia
@wladys678 Yes: but that is bcoz, in their eyes, the Tsar's proposal merely envisaged the aggrandizement of Russia, it was certainly advantageous to Russia to extend her borders westward; In any event, Alexander's statements and actions towards Poland between 1812 and 1815 are full of contradictions, admittedly motivated it seems by the sentiments of his heart and influenced by conversations with Czartoryski, Oginski and Kosciuszko who often expressed the injustice perpetrated by Catherine II. .
@elrjames777 reluctant to perform this coup, that he postponed it many times and finally on THE day he suffered a mental brakdown after talking to Polish President, that the coup had to be hand-run by his aide and he was sent home to recover. "Weimar Triangle" in theory is good.In practice though,I can't see much of its significance. Poland has been treated so unfairly by EU in the last 20 years, best example is treatment Polish shipbuilding industry vs.German, that it lost its power&steam.
@JBC814 But Poland's policy reversed again in the beginning of 1939,shortly before WW2. Why make war with Russia anyway,why not just leave her alone. These war plans were crazy and mischievous, assuming Germany's evil aims this war was unwinnable.But I don't agree USSr was a hell weaker than Russia and Stalin was naive like child to the last minute. What helped him wass massmurder on soviet POWS, upholding of hated soviet state farms by Germany,treatment of Slavs as subhumans.
@wladys678 Poland was mistaken in antagonizing Germany + Czechoslovakia and not giving sufficient weight to Stalin as a dangerous irredentist threat. Soviet armies were the Worlds largest, but its officers were purged and it performed poorly in the 'Winter War'. Stalin wasn't naive but suspicious of allied advice. Yes: Nazi ideology stymied any ideas the GA may have wished to develop in liberating subject peoples from Bolshevism; dictatorial inadequacy in command led to their eventual defeat.
@elrjames777 I just don't understand you first sentence and therefore it is hard for me to respond. I suspect,your sympathes are with Germany at that period and you likely read one of these publications, numerous on US market, that in a twisted way are blaming Poland for outbreak of WW2.It is like blaming a sheep it was eaten by a wolf. I can only repeat, that really Pilsudski and post-Pilsudski rule was to blame for breaking with France and turning into German bloc, but what can you expect ....
@wladys678 I know some European history but I am certainly no Nazi and their crimes were appalling. However, no good service is done to Poland in being presented by turns as either a regional super-power or else a hapless victim of past and present German aggression. Any critical remarks you could have made about Russian activity toward Poland are signally absent; this appears merely as crudely biased pseudo pan Slavism for its own sake, which has little in common with a balanced historical view
@elrjames777 We are talking about outbreak of WW2, which was initiated exclusively by Germany for its own ends. We can speculate of who indirectly contributed to it. Certainly I condemn USSR and Stalin for the crime of conspiring w.Germany,is there any doubt to it? The basic thing is to resolve : was this war needed? I say NO. Russia needed to be liberated, but that war was to further unslave it, hterefore it was so wrong. Germany already had such vast territories, many of them was not really g
@wladys678 This is exactly the set of givens that we are not supposed to question as they are popularly received; however this can hamper lateral thinking and be tendentious; It can be argued that the outbreak of WWII began on the other side of the world in 1937 with the Japanese invasion of China. I agree 100% that an attack on Poland was not needed, that is why it is worthwhile to explore how it may have been avoided; a Czech alliance and negotiation with Germany over territory may have worked
@elrjames777 Czech alliance YES. But negotiations of what territory??? In face of German voracious appetites...the more they get, the more they want. Reportedly, in secret negotiations Hitler was giving Poland the whole Ukraine and an access to Baltic out of Lithuanian coast, in exchange for participation in a war on USSR. This would't stop his appetite and aims of the war were highly immoral -whole thing would lead to a disaester anyway.
@wladys678 There is a gulf between imperial German policy and Hitler's warped ideas (coming to fruition in the opportunities for evil engendered by war), which distorted the military values of the old Prussian state. Consider, for instance, if 20th July events had succeeded; would it not have been better for Bor-Komorowski (who was regarded by Stalin as a criminal) to have made a deal with GA to keep RA out.The Warsaw rising was seen, with hindsight, as pointless and possibly harmful to Poland.
@elrjames777 To agree with your point about the "gulf.."one needs to know real german aims of WW1&WW2,both initiated by Germany.These aims, naturally were never revealed. All indicates these aims were in both cases the same, expansion,colonization and exploitation of new territories, mainly Russia. One who knows over one thousand relation with Geman Empire has no delussion.
@wladys678 AJP Taylor: Bismark preferred Germany to expand overseas rather than down the Danube; eastern expansion was also remote for him; unlike Junkers of Silesia or West Prussia, he never had Poles among his peasants.The only Poles he denounced from personal experience were educated revolutionaries, which was why he disliked intellectuals in Politics. Equating Hitler and Hohenzollern is ridiculous; WW1 began coz of an Austrian ultimatum to Serbia + Germany being "shackled to the corpse"
-------------- Germany beacuse it reached the Suez Canal and the distance from Mezopotamia to India was very short.Germany wanted to cut off Britain from the shortest way to India (the Suez) and capture India.That way they hoped to defeat Great Britain in any future war and achieve the status equal to America - a super power.Britain,fortunately,realised the danger posed by Germany,its tools:Austria-Hungary and Turkey and engaged in the Entente Cordiale with France.
@elrjames777 y thin and could be cut easily.Economically East Prussia could thrive only if at least all lower Vistula basin was occupied by Germany.But the Germans didn't want any more Poles within their borders as they fought tooth and nail with their already existing ones,trying to forcibly germanise them/us.Only when that objective was achieved,the Germans would wage war upon Russia for that part of Poland.
--------------
When it comes to Turkey,it was also very important to
@elrjames777 couldn't sustain itself without subsidiaries from the German interior;also,its population grew at the slowest pace in all Germany because of that,the Germans didn't make good use of Królewiec (Konigsberg in German-the entire areas was for 200 years a vassal province of Poland and it economically and geographically tends to Poland as its natural hinterland) as a port city.The connection between East Prussia and the rest of German held Poland was very
@elrjames777 the Osman Empire whilst aquiring colonial possesions was just a subsidiary goal of theirs and more of prestige than real interests if not counting aquiring rare resources from those colonies.Germany's aim was to secure East Prussia and straighten its north-eastern border with Russia so that it would be easily defendable.You see,East Prussia was by its natural predispositions,a very poor province with only amber as a resource of vast quantity and it
'Bismark preferred Germany to expand overseas rather than down the Danube; eastern expansion was also remote for him'
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That's where you've got it all wrong.The entire German aim after its unification in 1871 was to expand to the east into Russian held Poland and - slightly less important - to the Balkans and
@wladys678 Poland suffered cruelly from a vicious Nazi regime losing 1 in 5 of its population, if you wish to count Jews among them of course, but it is ridiculous to ascribe to Wilhelmine Germany motives of 'Mein Kampf', albeit with emotionally powerful reverse historical extrapolation of panslavic hindsight; Kaiser and Tsar were cousins! However, Willi's temperament was the worst possible in a crisis where the quality needed was not Nibelung loyalty to his ally Austria but cool common sense.
@elrjames777 Can you tell, what do you mean by July 20 events? Naturally, the uprising shoul'd have never take place, especially in that time-schedule. There were many forces to blame for that tragedy, I'd rather stop short with this subject. In ref.to Bor,he was not a criminal but a gentleman /but not in a right place though/ , his decision was wrong. Stalin's radio propaganda before Aug.1,called on Warsawians to rise against Germans.It was pointless&harmful from PL perspective, not PL enemies.
@wladys678 1. Abwehr was disbanded + subsumed by the SD in Feb 44; its leader Adm Canaris (an anti Hitler conspirator) was put under house arrest + later executed in a KZ. 2. In Jul 44 an attempt was made by WH officers to assassinate Hitler, arrest Nazis and declare martial law under the guise of 'operation Valkyrie' General Orders 1+2 were dispatched by the conspirators in Berlin on the aft of July 20th; the texts speak for themselves but are not fully available online; mail me and I'll send u
@elrjames777 Abwehra&gestapo knew well in advance of the rising, but did nothing to stop it. Both Hitler and Himmler enjoyed the Aug.1 outbreak. Sadly for them, the had no much time left for their celebrations.
@elrjames777 -ered just in 41. I am not a native English speaker and I don't know what the term GA stand for. I've read Ist hand eywitness story from those who witnessed assault on USSR /whom I can trust/, also remember some of what my parents said.
@wladys678 OK sorry man :-) GA = German Army. Your English is mostly colloquial and the subtlety of much of what you are told seems to escape you. Also, many of your posts appear as highly politicized ethno nationalism and not sensible as alternative extrapolation. For example, this clip is about Czechoslovakia and you picture German theft of her territory after ’Munich’ as military terrorism, but concomitant Polish action as sacrificially heroic, this is not reasonable historical comparison
@elrjames777 German, I am afraid, top architects of Versaille knew it wa a path to new war. "Sacrificially heroic", Iv'e NEVER said that, contrary I condemned as much as possible that action of sanacja govt.given the time context. But I must admit it wasn't sanacja']s initiative. If you've read my prior posts- I decribed it as "shameful", not heroic. What else do you expect me to say about Russia? sorry, but Stalin did not initiated this war and only joined Germany out of his own fear.
@wladys678 Germ and Pole were both motivated by ethno-nationalist self interest in their relations with Czech. You alluded to Pole occupation of Czech land as "in consistance with prometheist goals" this may refer to Pilsudski's idea to split subject peoples from Russia but, as I reminded you b4, Prometheus was an heroic Greek figure, sacrificed by having his liver eaten out chained to a rock in punishment for stealing fire from Gods to give to mortals. Say something about USSR invading Poland!
@elrjames777 I knew this old Gr.mythology story.Soviet aggression is a different subject, therefore I did not elaborate. Surely it was terrible. It lasted 9/39-6/41, much shorter than German, not to count what happened from mid44 and after. Soviets cooperated with Germany to murder Polish elite, they repeateddy met in Zakopane to coordinate this effort. They executed Polish patriots in prisons, at least 22,000-officers and exiled hundreds of thousands of ordinary people to Siberia.
@elrjames777 You are right,'Prometeism' commonly applies to policy vs.Russia,but I also met an opinion that treachery of CS was preceded by inspiration from the same source. I'am sorry, at this moment I can not reach out to this, but perhaps I'd be able to do it in next few days. Total # of soviet victims were abt 1/2 million, not to count after 44, while German 6 million,some say even 11 million. Germany inspired,equipped&allowed Ukrainian terrorist movement that consumed at least 200,000civili
@elrjames777 ..ans slaughtered. You may be disappointed what I say. My parents were by no means communist sympathizers and my father even hated it and Russians, which I think was a bit irresponsible, he was raised the austrian way /even though he was born after WW1/ and took their prejudices for granted.
@wladys678 Re: "the Austrian way" - a poignant personal perspective that I can admire; I suppose that if we are going in for admissions it would not be out of place for me to state I have more than a small degree of sympathy toward the Hapsburg multi-ethnic imperial system, although they were seriously remiss in going to war with Serbia there was a war that was not needed if ever there was one. With Hindsight, could the 'Regency Kingdom of Poland' have worked, assuming goodwill on both sides.
@JBC814 claims? such a war alongside Germany woul'd have been unpopular among Poles no matter what promisses he made. Pacts with Japan were based on this prospective war with USSR, as Japan was not interested in Europe but the East. So Poland Jan.1939 ultimate rejection of of Hitler offer meant a delayed defeat for Germany, it lead to Hitler's pact with Stalin, which in turn made enraged Japan put stop to ongoing war against USSR,the released divisions Stalin sent to Poland 9/17/39.
@wladys678 : Stalin delivered a crushing defeat to the Japanese in Siberia, which meant that Germany was all alone and the Japanese had no chance of winning any battles in Russia.
@JBC814 The defeat wasn't crushing, as eg.more soviets than japanesie got killed in last battle and proportion was even worse since may39.After the battle Aug31,39 Japan was still considering offensive.Where is the contradiction? Kalkhin Gul did contribute to Japan's pullout but Ribbentrop-Molotov pact of 8/23/39 impacted it even more.The pact meant for Japan a war with USSR one to one, without german help as they counted for since pact of 1936.Japan never returned to war even in 1941.
@wladys678 : Hitler stated in Mein Kampf that territories to the East (Ukraine) were to be annexed for Germany's expansion. He had no desire to invade the Western nations, and stated that he would avoid war with the West as much as possible. But the Polish invasion started a war on two fronts, so he delayed the Russian invasion to fight with the West, which cost him the war. The Kaiser made the same mistake in WW1. Both wars were about Russia, not the West.
@JBC814 Japan never returned to war in Siberia and USSR was released from war on two fronts which would be fatal.This way Rydz/Beck decision meant defeat for Germany which was short in manpower. Shortly after 6/41 more than 3 million Soviet army surrended, it was very easy to win that war.Now Hitler & Germany arrogance toward Slavs guaranteed his defeat. More than 50% of these POWs died in german camps of maltreatment.
@wladys678 : I don't believe any nation could have defeated Russia in WW2, even if Japan had stayed in the fighting. In WW1 Russia was easy pickings due to the unpopularity of the Czar and their feudal system, the country was bankrupt. However, Stalin knew in 1934 that Hitler was planning to invade Russia, and he was feigning weakness in order to lead Hitler into a trap. Hitler had only one chance and that was the capture of Russia's oil fields. But, he went to Moscow instead.
I´am from Czech Republic. We was ready to fight, we made mobilization. We builded most modern bunkers in europe. Nazi army had ammo on two weeks of fighting. If they attacked us, and France hepled and made attack on Germany, war was over until 6 months and in my country was´nt nazi, any communist.
I think Germany received mercy from USA and Russia, they could make the german population completely dissappear after WWII if they would make that idea of Henry Morgenthau real. That means there would be no Germany and maybe not this discussion.
They were lucky because they were not forced to give back all Polish lands occupied since the partitions such as Gdańsk (occupied since 1793),Warmia (since 1772) and large border areas in Great Poland.Yet they claimed that it was theirs!The Germans start wars when they have huge advantage and when they are forced to fight with some one their own size and lose,then they shout 'the injust Versailles Treaty'!.
Great point.I've had enough of German arrogance and insolence.Twice they started a world war and twice they blamed others for it.Germany declared war upon Russia in 1914 but the German king convinced most Germans that it was Russia that declared war upon Germany.In what other country that would be possible?Only in a country whose nation treats everything favourable to Germans as good and true and unfavourable as bad and false.
The Allies should stop hiding their history. The first invasions did not happen in 1939, but many years before that. The Czech invasion into German territory was only one of them. Also research how the "innocent" French invaded Germany in 1919 and in 1923, trying to enslave millions of people in the Saarland and the Rhineland under Alien rule.
Hidden history: The Millions of Germans of course wanted to remain German, when they demonstrated peacefully in their streets in March 1919 , Czech tanks moved in and shot unarmed German demonstrators, many of them women, girls and even 12-year old boys. Hundreds were wounded and many died in the Massacre of KAADEN March 1919. Sudetenland was taken by military force.
If the Allies had not forced millions of peaceful people under Alien yoke in 1919, the world war would never have happened.
"Czecho-Slovakia", a monstrosity created by those who claimed to bring "democracy", contained:
6.0 Million Czechs
2.9 Million Slovaks
3.5 Million Sudetengermans
0.8 Million Hungarians
0.5 Million Ruthenians (Ukrainians)
and other nations. None of all these people who were forced into this artificial state had ever been asked if they wanted to be in this state or not. As soon as the Sudetengermans achieved their freedom from Alien yoke in 1938, the Slovaks split up, too.
A "Czecho-Slovak" Nation never existed in human history. Czechs and Slovaks are two different people. The Czechs not only forced 2.9 Million Slovaks into their artificial state, they also forced millions of Germans, Hungarians, Ukrainians and others into their state against their will - with military violence. And they called it "democracy".
@Elberiver11 You dont seem to know much about history, why do you comment?! It would be better if you start making proper research on this topic, instead of listening what 'one old lady' said and then typing it down on YouTube. The Velvet Divorse happened due to Hitlers treatment of Slovakia (as a puppet) and then due to the state of Slovakia's economy. It has been difficult, after the collapse of communism, to reform this country. Czechs wanted more centralized politics ....
@MissSladousek Czechs wanted "centralized" politics? LOL thats a nice euphemism for "czechs wanting to control Slovaks" ;)
Sorry, but it is very known that the Slovaks did not like to be controlled by Czech yoke. That is why they left your "democratic" nation as soon as they had the chance to.
It has nothing to do with communism. In 1938, CSR was not communist, and yet the Slovaks split up, too. They saw that Sudetengermans got freedom from Czech yoke, so they wanted it, too.
The Sudetes provinces are core Czech provinces,both historically and nationally.They were and should never be German.Germans were just guests in the czech Kingdom and then,Czechoslovakia and how they behaved?Horribly.Out with such guests!
can you please explain to me what really happened because some idiot is trying to say Poles murdered germans in Sudatenland and the danzig corridor his exact words " @kxr225522 really...do you believe that..? do you not know that poland had taken german land and german people still lived there...do you not know that they were being killed by the poles...sudatenland and danzig corridor...mean anything to you...? fuckystoat " is this true or no I havnt got that far in Polish history
Ps.Central European countries were force to sign the 'Minorities Treaty' in Versailles if they wanted to be recognised by the Entente.That was pure blackmail and its objective was to weaken those countries and disable the host nations of those countries to rule their own countries without looking at their minorities.That was sabotage.Naturally,Germany,although defeated (!!) was not forced to sign it!!!
@PolskiNarodowiecND But Jozef Beck renounced the Treaty in 1934, and a Czech policy of civic nationalism is in contrast to the hostility of a Polish state to its barely tolerated ethnic minorities. For example, comparing political anti-Semitism in Germany and Poland during the inter-war years, Prof Hagen states: "at the ideological level, anti-Semitic slogans and pronouncements of right-wing radicals, the Catholic Church and the post Pilsudski regime had become, by 1939, almost inter-changeable"
@elrjames777 "barely tolerated minorities" this has nothing to do with truth, especially in comparison with Germany's cynical use of minorities both in and outside of country. But I admit, Rydz's policy toward Ukrainians was unexcusable. One must also remember that some of Abvehra trained Ukrainian agents perpetrated assassinations on Polish officials, remarkably on those who were friendly to them, obviusly to saw foment only.Ukrainians had their press and education facilities.
@wladys678 As you bravely intimated, there is evidence of communal / cultural restriction, even forced assimilation. Policy was influenced, for example, by Dmowski , the OZN (Camp of National Unity) and the ‘National’ Democracy’ Movement with a following amoung academic youth and large landowners. Inter War Poland was an authoritarian ethno-nationalist state, not a civic democracy like Czech; there were for instance many more minority parliamentary deputies in Czech than in any of her neighbours
@elrjames777 Dmowski and his movement were considered enemies of the state, he didn't even receive official funeral ceremony, his followers barred from state posts, some persecuted and that movement was sharply aganist any joint action with Hitler's Germany, so what are you talking about? At the same time Abwehra was sponsoring ukrainian and other antipolish terrorism,organising provocations. The picture is clear. Stop demonising Poland.
@wladys678 1.“demonizing Poland” is not an aim of this writer, who has often complimented her people in posts. 2. Reference to Nazi excess does not excuse inter War Polish state oppression of political and racial minorities; try reading Joanna Michlic’s.book on the subject. 3.This clip is about Edvard Benes' Czech state, in contrast with which the 2nd Republic does indeed appear as authoritarian and pernicious; it was not the open democratic society often implied by those hostile to Germany
to speak the largest lies in order to make themselves innocent victims of Polish oppression.Well...If you simply look who oppressed who since the last 200 years you'll laugh at those Germans who say that.That shows you just what attitude the German side had towards us Poles.Sadly,scientific literature is very small.I wish that that could be different.Despite I see wikipedia sa a horrible leftist and liberal outpost,I would advise you to check what they have on the subject.Cheers
@PolskiNarodowiecND Germans have been trying to take over Polska since the begining, we've even been wiped off the map and we're still here one more reason I'm proud to be a polack lol, I thought he was just talking shit but thanks for the full story you've been helpful and POLSKA NA ZAWSZE !!!! lol , cheers buddy
OK, you have just proven that you dont even know the history of your own country. And now you tell me i should "research" history?
My research is , for example, Prof. Dr. Alfred de Zayas, Harvard Alumnus and Professor for International law. He calls the massmurder of Germans by Czech communist gangsters a "Genocide". As your country denies her history, i recommend you start researching your covered-up history.
@Elberiver11 Both sides agreed to seperate. However you might be interested that many Czechs and Slovaks desired the continued existence of Czechoslovakia and not wanted this seperation. Meciar was always criticised as one with lack of respect to democracy and for his autocratic style. About founding of Czechoslovakia .... Slovaks and Czechs wanted independence from Austro-Hungarian Empire, which they were part of for a looong time. When the Empire collapsed on the end of the WWI, much loved...
And you know who funded the Slovakian separatist movement?The Germans of course,just like in Croatia and Slovenia,by their fundations.Their aim is to break down larger Slavic countries into smaller ones,e.g.:Czechosloakia into the Czech Republic and Slovakia and Yougoslavia into Serbia,Bosnia and Herzegovina,Slovenia,Montenegro,Croatia.
@PolskiNarodowiecND Well and that might be true as well.. Regarding that I reckon it will be hard to prove, al thou logical, unless of course there is a proper evidence. But be honest evidence always tend to disappear in such cases.
Yes,that's what I'm saying.The old Roman proverb says:he who has interest in something,is guilty of doing that' and who is more interested in destroying its Slavic neighbours than Germany?They also gave weapons to Croatia,Slovenia and Bosna.The then German foreign minister,Hans Dietrich Genscher,was so quick to seize the opportunity to prepare European nations for a psychological schock of border change-first since 1945.We must have a Central European alliance against the.
@PolskiNarodowiecND Forgive me but your retrospective imposition of a contemporary pan-slavism on the past is making a grotesque parody of an otherwise enjoyable presentation of historical knowledge you clearly have at your disposal. My earlier remarks on Bismark were from AJP Taylor, HAL Fisher et alia, not just my own view. OK: in 1885, for instance, the Prussian diet (Bismark) compulsorily expropriated Polish landowners, although the Reichstag insisted on discussing and condemning this action
@Elberiver11 Tomas G Masaryk has finally got the independence of the Czechs together in union with Slovaks. Many western people loved Masaryk and he won their support. So... next time you would like to talk history, learn history first! About your other comments, they are very, how would one say that ... underdeveloped and uncommentable. Thank you
You must be born total idiot. It was more than right to deport all the sudetgermans out from Czecoslovakia after WWII. They were on Hitler side, a murder maniac who caused death of 50 millions Europeans. It was more than right to bomb the Germany. Most of german people agreed with Hitler. It was more than right to bomb Japan. The japs were not better than Hitler, they were even worse against Asians people. They tortured and killed people for joy!!! Hitler and Hirohito were barbarians.
@josfol If you violent Czech monsters had not invaded the Sudetenland in 1919, and if you had not used Military violence to murder innocent Sudetengermans, your beloved Hitler would not even exist, you idiot.
You should not talk about your stupid Hitler-nonsense all the time, better start researching your own guilt. Germany took the Sudetenland back in 1938, and the Germans were fully right to take back what YOU racist bastards had stolen. Stop hiding your guilt.
@josfol The Sudetenland was never Czech territory over the last 700 years, but i was crown posession of the German-Austrian Habsburg Monarchy, you moron. Learn history, you idiot. Are you American? You sound so stupid.
And stop crying your fake tears about Hitler, the return of the Sudetenland to Germany had nothing to do with Hitler, you moron. Any Government would have demanded the return of the land than YOU had stolen.
@josfol you cry about your beloved Nazis, when at the same time you spread your racist hate-speech , praising Allied genocides like HIROSHIMA and the YALTA-Genocide that murdered over 2.0 Million German children, women and elderly people. People like you wish to cover up your own Holocausts. But what do you expect from racists who praise the HIROSHIMA Holocaust. Racists like you should be punished.
PS: the deportation of the Sudetengermans was a Holocaust. Read history, you moron.
@ThePribina You are one of the most stupid people on earth. The Czech-Polish Communists murdered over 2.0 Million German families (CIVILIANS). This is officially recognized as a Genocide. But you Czech scum prefer to cover up your monstrous history, dont you?
Oh, and its really funny to blame the Germans for HIROSHIMA......hahahaha! What a joke. Are you trying to insult all the Japanese Victims, who were murdered by YOU? Be ashamed of your racist hate-speech, you Czech Nazi. Spodina.
@ThePribina 2.0 Million German CHILDREN, BABIES , WOMEN AND ELDERLY PEOPLE .- murdered by your dirty Czech-Polish Communist Grandfather. Shame on you! HIDDEN HOLOCAUST. Fuck Czechs and Poles! Get out of EU ! you are not Europe, you are COMMUNIST SCUM. Go back to great slavic brother russia, go back to your mongolian tribes where you came from. YOU ARE NOT EUROPE. Communist Mongolian scum.
It is not worth to discuss with Elberiver11. I suggest that we finish our further discussion with him. The fact is that he was born idiot and you cannot do anything about it. He forgets that germans actually attacted periodicly the Czech territory for more that 1000 years and now they try to play big victims as for the Sudetengermans. Thank you for your support comments. I quit now.
@josfol Of course you are afraid to discuss with Elberiver - because he has facts that are too afraid to confront. You are a Genocide-denier, a racist and an anti-german hater. You try to cover up the Genocide of 2 Million german civilians - also many children - who were murdered by Czechs and Poles since 1945.
This genocide was planned by Benes and his Polish communist friends long time before 1938. Czechs are denying their Genocide on Sudetengermans, but internationally it is well-known.
@josfol Sudetengermans do not "play" victims, they ARE victims. Or what else would you call people murdered in a genocide?
The Sudetengermans were forced under Czech Tyranny in 1919, by Czech military force. Czech tanks invaded the Sudetenland, against international law, and opened fire on unarmed demonstrators. Hundreds were murdered by Czech tanks in 1919.
It's the Czechs who play "victim". You cry tears about Prag 1968, but you did the same to Sudetengermans in 1919.
Then the Germans ough to heva left Czechoslovakia if they didn't like it because it was never German territory but core Czech.Germans were only guests in the Czech Kingdom and Czechoslovakia and look how you sickos behaved to the nation that let you in.No wonder that you're universally hated and you haven't learned anything from your German shamefull past.If you don't like living in a certain country,then leave it you fucks and stop making trouble for the host nation!
@josfol Sudetenland 1919 = invasion of Aliens, forcing over 3.5 Million Germans under alien yoke.
Czechs lie about their history, by covering up who started conflict. It was not the Germans who invaded Czech territory in 1919 - but it was Czech troops who invaded Austrian territory in 1919 and oppressed over 3.5 Million people. Czechs forbade democratic elections for millions, and they called it "democracy".
In any case, please stop your hate for Sudetengermans. I think you are racist.
Stop your stupid arguments about german and japanese victims during the WWII. You both began the war, killed millions and millions of people on this Earth and you had to take all the consequences and that´s it!!! Do us a favor and go and hide yourself!!! You are and you always will be an idiot!!!
Czech could fight but they are cowards.
PomeranianWolf 3 weeks ago
This video is really absurd. It does not mention that after the WW1 one third of the German lands were given to France, Poland, Czech republic, Italy....
It is absurd to demand loyality towards the occupying countries. The treaty of Versailles was a joke.
Greets from South Tyrol. (I have nothing against Italians, but we are not Italians and should be able to determine our own future)
AustrianAtheist 2 months ago
@AustrianAtheist yes, thats true, but, as a czech, when germany have lost the WW1, they didnt give us anything, that Austria-Hungary has gived us a land to have our own state... Sorry for english, but i had to say that
TheZeke256 1 month ago
Please don't get me wrong. I love czech people, I want peace and I do not want to redo history.
That being said, why was Sudetenland, Boehmerwald given to the Czechoslovakia in 1919? It was nearly 100% German? 3 millions Germans/Austrians live there. So why was it not given to German-Austria? And they did not get any autonomy... Even many czechs at that time, did not agree with this policy! I will never understand, why this gets never mentioned in western media.
Peace
AustrianAtheist 1 month ago
@AustrianAtheist
Why Czechoslovakia was not declared on purely national principle?
Czechoslovaks demanded their historical borders. Plus a land you can defend by manning the mountains.
TheAmHera 3 weeks ago
Which historical borders? We were both ruled by Habsburg? National identities did never exist for the nobility. Monarchy was destroyed with the argument that "each people should rule itself"
But then 3,5 million Germans were forced to live with 6,5 million Czechoslovaks in one czechoslovak state, withput any minority rights. The German social democrats could not achieve any compromise. The mountain-argument just shows that they knew in 1919 that the German people would want freedom. :(
AustrianAtheist 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist
The winners of WWI knew Germany was dangerous. The WWI was a shock that noone wanted to repeat. So it was strategical to assume Czechoslovakian western borders within the historical Lands of Czech Crown.
I have read that minorities in Cz-kia had their rights based on resident percentage. There were no violent raids on Germans, like in Germany on Jews. And I am pretty sure that WWII was not about liberating Germans in Czechoslovakia.
TheAmHera 2 weeks ago
So now you blame WWI only on Germany? You cannot be serious! Austria-Hungary, Russia, all mayor powers were to blame for WWI, not only Germany.
Of course Germany after 1933 was much worse than Czechoslovakia ever was and yes, all these shameful Nazi-crimes happened, but I think the occupation of East Prussia/Sudetenland/.. by Poland/Czechoslovakia also led to a rise of German nationalism.
I live in South Tyrol, We like Italians, but why are we still occupied by Italy since 1919?
AustrianAtheist 2 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist
I am sorry. You are absolutely right regarding the WWI problem, I just focused on the Sudeten part. Czechoslovakia had conflicts with Poland and Hungary too. Even now Czech Rep. "occupies" a small former part of Poland. Interesting point of yours about S. Tyrol, I never realized this.
To be short: I have my personal reasons to feel that not everything is rightful here. Borders move. But I would like to see Europe united for the problems that are about to come.
TheAmHera 2 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist Because there was no Sudetenland.
kibicz 1 week ago
Well Sudetenland was not part of Germany, but after monarchy broke up in 1918, Austria claimed it and the people were Germans and felt occupied since then. Is it not true?
I despise Hitler ofc, but it is absurd, how this film plays down the fate of the occupied people of Sudetenland.
AustrianAtheist 2 months ago in playlist Ethnology Nation Origin Roots
@IustitiaPax : how could you say this you stupid fuck? My grandparenst lived in protectorate and it wasnt free for Czechs at all!
KarlosTheMighty 2 months ago
@KarlosTheMighty Oh yes, it was. The Protektorát had a higher life expectancy from 1939-1945 than Czechoslovakia in 1937. All facts. Material and scientifically proven facts. Of course anti-German Communists and other Czechs (who suddenly switched sides in April and May 1945 only, out of opportunism and possibility to steal all Germans' wealth and immobile properties) now allege it was different.
IustitiaPax 2 months ago
@IustitiaPax : higher life expectancy? :D Its not brainwash you asshole, thats experiance that had my OWN family. Only fact here is you are nazi asshole.
KarlosTheMighty 2 months ago
@KarlosTheMighty Our discussion ends here, as you resort to insults. You cannot refute my accurate and historically objective statements based on objective statistics, facts and the overall experience. Your family cannot have had another experience than the general Czech populace, unless they were males from Lidice or Lezaky. But the 1944 Putten reprisals also do not refute the fact, that occupation in the Netherlands was generally moderate and created an economic boom initially.
IustitiaPax 2 months ago
@IustitiaPax : I am insulting because this is never been discussion you are lieing over and over and denying everything what anybody tells and marks it as communist or panslavic propaganda. You are even telling me, what my own family experienced :D My grandfather was convicted to death by fucking wermacht (luckily escaped) and my grandmother was deported to Berlin as Totaleinsatz. Czechoslovakia was one of richest countrys in region. Every historic nows it, thats why you are stupid fuck :)
KarlosTheMighty 2 months ago
@KarlosTheMighty Condemned to death by "fucking Wehrmacht". When? At what time? In what circumstances? The Protektorát had no military occupation, as it was integral part of the Reich itself. And your grandfather "escaped". Hardly a credible story. Your grandmother was deported under "Totaleinsatz"? This word never existed. You mean Arbeitseinsatz? So were 100,000s of Dutch men. And the Czech workers in Germany had a good life. I will send you a video about Czech workers in Berlin.
IustitiaPax 2 months ago
@KarlosTheMighty Search for "Zábavná představení pro české dělníky v Berlíně" (video). The Czech workers had entertainment, music evenings, housing, a salary. You are clearly brainwashed. And claiming victimhood of 'the evil Germans' during the Czechoslovak Communist system was opportunistic and 'heroic'.
IustitiaPax 2 months ago
@IustitiaPax : Once again you fucker, my own grandmother was there and there was no fucking entertainment, she worked hard and almost died during bombing the city! So fuck you! I cant bealive you really bealive in this :D
KarlosTheMighty 2 months ago
@KarlosTheMighty Your grandmother almost died (like your grandfather 'escaped' a death sentence allegedly). So many coincidences in your story. The Allied phosphor bombing and timebomb droppings against Berlin were a fact, and many Dutch and German workers suffered too. So what is so special about your statements? You only repeat more insults and primitive language.
IustitiaPax 2 months ago
@IustitiaPax : Bollocks, I hate when some foreign smartass is trying teach me my own history.
KarlosTheMighty 2 months ago
@KarlosTheMighty You have obviously been brainwashed. I am from Holland. I know the facts, I have researched the sites, spoken to witnesses (including many Czechs, both elderly and youth), studied statistics. The conclusions are very clear. Of course you still repeat the Benes and Gottwald-era crypto-chauvinist-Communist anti-German propaganda view. That is your 'memory'. But you are not witness. And emotional statements in the Communist era cannot era forensic and statistic facts.
IustitiaPax 2 months ago
@manudu20 : common man, I dont like these argues but check wikipedia, that short war against you was after Poland taked land around Tesin and it was our land, we didnt start it.
KarlosTheMighty 2 months ago
@KarlosTheMighty I'm really sorry but we have to agree to disagree. In 1919 Czech soldiers atacked Polish soldiers without waiting fot the results of the voting which was to take place.You would have lost the voting because the majority of people were Polish. That's why you later deported 100.000 Polish citizens. This is common knowledge. There's no need to look it up in the wikipedia. I don't wanna argue anymore with you my Czech brothers.
manudu20 2 months ago
@manudu20 : well but it was just part of Bohemia Kingdom, we made our republic in our historical lands ... but I dont know, it think it was pretty hard to split such a huge empire like Austro Hungarian, some unsolved problems camed on surface ... but yes, this is pointless, only fucker here is that stupid dutch fuck who is saying Czechs was happy in Protektorat ...
KarlosTheMighty 2 months ago
Hitler je piča, ale to co dokázal on, nedokázal nikdo.
Fuck u Germany & Hitler!
7412251 2 months ago
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Fucking evil nation, germans stole almost every invention that czechs made. Porsche, mercedes, Wv, they all stole from Czechs, besides great wealth, weapons and land. And this traitor chamberlain will burn in hell.
Arainion 3 months ago
Comment removed
Arainion 3 months ago
Fuck you, Chamberlain.
Sincerely, from Czech Republic.
ket68ify 3 months ago 2
fucken propaganda does not mater what regime you do live.
theDUDEmir 6 months ago
@theDUDEmir
lol what?
Whisper88here 6 months ago
....wait.....'Czecho-Slovakia'?? This piece of history is deluded, as it has all been whitewashed by Western narcissism. If Slovakia is not considered, then you can just forget about Hungary, Carpathian Ruthenia, Transylvania, Wallachia, all the former Yugoslav states....because Eastern Europe was obviously all still Austrian in this antiquated view...
ngogol 6 months ago
from those who never got elected and only relied on their sponsors.So you are blaiming the sheep, that antagonised the wolf...2.May be in general Stalin was not naive,but in respect to Germany he was.Purge of officers was in large part work of Abwehra and Tuchaczewski fell victim to it,Stalin believed Abwehra, but not his own:)))Intil last minute in June 41 he sent large supplies to germany, that gave boost to Hitler.At outbreak soviet defence was zero,eg. no air defence at all.3 million surrend
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 Of course you know I am not going to accept as fact and without proper evidence what you call the "sponsorship" of principal Polish politicians; however, wherever the truth may be found, the Polish people can certainly NOT be blamed. Yes: during Stalin's pact large supplies were sent to Germany buying time to complete RA (red army) reforms; his mistake was in ordering RA forward into a defence line within the occupied territories against the advice of his military commanders
elrjames777 7 months ago
kurwafacken
Yes,he says what the Germans were saying before the war - total bolony.The big lie was hitler's favourite tactic of lying.Let the guy prove what he says.Of course no killings of Germans in Poland nor Czechoslovakia took place before the war;that's all nonsense.It was exactly the other way round:
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
kurwafacken
Polish minority in Germany couldn't even have its logo containing white Polish eagle and were treated like noncitizens.In Poland and Czechoslovakia there were large German minorities who acted like as if the wanted to cause problems:
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
kurwafacken
:they didn't accept the existing borders,organised themselves into revisionist groups and wanted to take large parts of Poland and Czechoslovakia for Germany.In the inter-0war period,there wasn't a single year in which the Germans wouldn't sabotage the state in which they were living in and were hostile to them.Those provocations rose enormously from 1938 to 1939.In Poland,Germans were making physical brawls to artificially show to the world that Poland and Czechoslovakia are silly,
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
kurwafacken ,unstable countries persecuting the German minority.That was their game and most of the then public opinion and governments were supporting those ridiculous German claims.Nothing could have been further from the truth.In the 1939,scores of provocations took place in Poland,at the hands of the German minority,whose 20% belonged to the hitlerite party and basically all supported the III Reich.Countless German border violations,
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
kurwafacken
counterfitting Polish currency (like in mid XVIIIth century),placing bombs in public places (I know that in late August 1939 a bomb went off in Tarnów railway station killiing and injuring many people),Germans were destroying their own meeting places,homes and factories to 'prove' how much they were being persecuted.After all,hitler himself said before the Gleiwitz provocation in August 31st 1939:I don't care whether the world will believe it,I must have some casus belli.
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
kurwafacken
The world doesn't judge victors'.Not to mention the Free City of Gdańsk,which was a Polish protectorate and didn't return to Poland from Germany when Germany occupied it in 1793 or the all-out badmouthing of Poland by Germany in world press and calling it a 'seasonal state'.In Germany,everything Polish was outrageously villified as the worst that can be and a normal work of Polish minority organisations was impossible from the very start in 1918.Germans have had this tendency
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND
Trash talking Polak. Poland threatened minorities before WW2, germans and mostly ukrainians. Thats why Ukrainians hate you so much. Polish ppl always try to act like innocents. Danzig was ruled by The Deutscher Orden and were member of the Hanse long before polish supremacy in 1454. The whole eastern territories poland stole after WW2 belongs historically to germany. Pommern Schlesien Ostpreußen parts of Westpreußen
hammertitten 7 months ago
@hammertitten
,Drezno (Dresden),Chociebuż (Cottbus),Budziszyn (Bautzen) where our king Bolesłąw I Chrobry kicked your germie asses,also:Wołogoszcz (Wolgast),Lipsk (Lepizig),Potdąb (Potsdam),Górę (Gera) etc.That's where you shit-eaters belong:west of the Łaba!Oh and by the way:1/4 of your herrenvolk are Slavs from the land of the Obodrites,Wielketies,Polabians and other Slavic tribes:-)
Kopanica (Kopenick) in Bralin (Berlin)was a place in which Slavs sold germAN slaves to the jews ha ha.
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
@hammertitten
I won't even waste my time speaking to a stupig germAn.Gdańsk was funded by Polish duke Mieszko I in 997 and was settled by a Polish tribe called Pommeranians before the Polish tribes formed a Polish nation under Mieszko I and Bolesław I Chrobry.germANS take your corpses west of the Łaba (Elbe) river where you belong,give us Poles back our Polish Bralin (Berlin),Jarobród (Erfurt),Lubice (Lubeck),Kieł (Kiel),Strzałę (Stralsund),
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
@hammertitten
Who has a 'better' record of putting down its minorities and killing other nations that scoundrels known as germANS?
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND
Dream u fucking retarted pussy,western from the Elbe...hahaha. U hardly deserve an own Country coz your ppl are 2 dumb to shit in a toilet.Slavic influence is an unnecessary part of eastgermanian history,nothing more.Former Slavs were uneducated peasants,just like 2day xD.Eastgermanians lived in the territory of Danzig long before Mieszko and his inzest son Bolesław invaded the area.No time anymore,my Polak bitch has 2 suck a big germanian cock, only thing she does good:)
hammertitten 6 months ago
@hammertitten
Dreams are essential for ambitions,ambitions are essential for will and will is essentiall for action.You Germans just cannot stand the truth that you are mixed with western Slavs,can't you?I see that mute anger all the time when talking to Germans.It shows itself by accusing Poles of being Germanic peoples or mixed with Germans.Poles are the only major nation of Europe who are NOT of Germanic descent nor mixed with the Germans.That's what's bothering you.Ps.I'm not a sodomite.
PolskiNarodowiecND 6 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND
Poland is a joke, get it now. Always get your ass raped in war, and then cry 4 help from other nations.
hammertitten 6 months ago
@hammertitten
Germany is a joke,.Always get your ass raped in war,and then cry 4 help from other nations (Germany in WW I and WW II).And you're cowardly bastards because you take on only much weaker nations and NEVER fight someone your own size or bigger.Only then you're so ,,brave".
PolskiNarodowiecND 6 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND
Yes we r a joke, thats why we fought against nearly the whole world... stupid polak.
And we never cry 4 help like your pathetic ppl
hammertitten 5 months ago
@hammertitten
Only because the whole world finally decided to put an end to you!
PolskiNarodowiecND 5 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND
Sure, war against Sovjets, Americans, British, French..altogether...but Germans just fought minor nations, for sure...I would be glad if my ancestors actually did it the way you tried to tell us..then the Sovjets wouldnt have deprived us of one third of our land...cant change history, but dont write such a nonsense
antiochostheos 5 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND
I myself am of Slavic descent...but Im German and nothing else, that doesnt trouble me, not at all. And - for sure again- Poles are a "pure race" - nuts, just have a look at Silesia, so ridiculous.. Panslavism isnt better than Pangermanism any way - just a weird idea of a bunch of racists without any cultural sensibiltiy
antiochostheos 5 months ago
"We want no Czechs" - Hitler's mistake was to chose two countries that were allied with the West: Czechoslovakia and Poland. He totally missed the 3 nations that had much more to offer in support of his war machine: Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, all of which could be "persuaded" to join Germany before the Russian invasion in '41. That way he could have avoided a two front war.
JBC814 7 months ago
@JBC814 Are you still dreaming of Hitler's attack on USSR,and only regretting it did not work? Do you realise why Germany lost so terribly? Sure, war with Russia was #1 aim of Germany & everything else was of 2nd consideration. I have my own answer, but I wish you say it first. By the way, since 1926 coup Poland was both in German and UK block,Hitler counted very much on Poland cooperation,Polish last minute pullout costed Germany a defeat. see my other post.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 : Russia was the only country Hitler wanted. If Poland gave the corridor to Germany, he would have gone on to invade Russia and leave Poland alone, I presume. Hitler lost because he turned on the West after they invested heavily in his new regime. The West thought he was going to rid the world of communism and supported him in the beginning. Hitler lost because he made all the wrong decisions, and he was incompetent in relations with other nations. As a general he was an idiot.
JBC814 7 months ago
@wladys678 : The war was over after the Battle of Britain because Hitler lost half of his best planes and pilots over England, and he gave Stalin more time to prepare for invasion. When he invaded Russia it was too late, and he didn't have enough planes to support the troops. Also he stopped the tanks 200 miles from Moscow, giving the Russians time to regroup. He could only lose like Napoleon even if he did make it to Moscow because his supply lines were too long. It was suicide
JBC814 7 months ago
@JBC814
Hitler would not have stopped at just a Polish corridor or have you forgotten about the Sudetenland and of Czechoslovakia's fate? Hitler was power hungry and for the most part wanted everything east of Germany for his "lebensraum".
You are correct in that as a general Hitler was an idiot. Invading the USSR too late in the year then diverting forces to Stalingrad instead of taking oil fields were huge blunders.
bigrobcanuck 7 months ago
@JBC814 But he DID persuated Hungarians and Romanians to join Germany,their forces participated in advance on Stalingrad and many other places/also Spanish and Italian forces/ .He DID NOT missed them. But WHY did Germany launch that war anyway, I think there lies the answer to why they lost it and the same regards to WW1.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 : You are right, Hitler did annex the 3 nations of Bohemia, but that was in 1941, not in 1939, when he could have integrated them into his forces much more efficiently while avoiding war with the West by staying out of Poland. He already had Austria and Czechoslovakia, he didn't need Poland, but he did need Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria. The Black Sea was the path to the Russian oil fields to strangle Russia's oil supplies.
JBC814 7 months ago
@JBC814 Two wars were about Russia, on this we agree.What do you mean by 3 nations of Bohemia?I've recently learned that acording to a linguist Ondrys Lysohorsky,there was a nation of Lachs in n.Moravia.Poland was key to Hitler plans anyway.It is very natural, he counted on Polish 100 divisions and since 1920 war he valued them highly. Reportedly he was giving Poland whole Ukraine and a part of Lithuania with access to Baltic in exchange for participation in war. would it counterbalance other
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 : The "3 nations of Bohemia" is just a generalization for Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria, which Hitler annexed in '41 - too late to make a difference due to his loses over England. He could have avoided war with the West by staying out of Poland, and annexing Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria instead. They all were ruled by autocrats and didn't have any alliances with the West, I believe.
JBC814 7 months ago
@wladys678 : I know nothing of a secret deal between Hitler and Poland. Do you have a reference? If Poland already made a deal, then why did she refuse Hitler's last offer? Obviously, there was no way the West could prevent an invasion, so Poland should have accepted a deal with Hitler to prevent the war. Poland was a sitting duck, and had no army that could match Germany's. Since Hitler had already made a pact with Stalin, Poland had no other choice but to make a deal. So, why didn't she?
JBC814 7 months ago
@JBC814 The deal between Hitler and Pilsudski was secret,but there are many indirect proofs of it.Pil.was and old time mole of Aus&Germany , his 1926 coup meant reversal of Polish policy from pro-french to pro-german.Oct.39 Hitler personally honored him at funeral mass1935,Oct.39 he ordered honor guard at his tomb.There are many proofs, but no room for them here. Polish policy since 5/1926 was dictated by Germany,usually against Poland's interest,one of them was neutralising & idling army..
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 According to Radzilowski, as far as the Poles were concerned, the problem with being "pro-French" was the instability in French politics which resulted in constant indecision about her policy toward Poland. While it is true that Pilsudski's legions fought alongside Austria against Russia until 1917, the closest he came to being "an Austrian Mole" was in a prison dungeon at Magdeburg; the mole idea is ridiculous, not only is there "no room" for proofs to the contrary, there are none.
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 You can believe what I've said or not, there is no room here for further unfolding of this topic. All I can say it is so clear as 2+2=4. I've never heared of Mr.Radzilowski up until now, and now I've looked up to wikipedia. He looks like one of these polit-correct guys. Likely, you are not looking for truth, but rather for one of those easy polit-correct formulas, good luck, but I am unable to help you in this pursuit.
wladys678 7 months ago
@elrjames777 one more thing. that "Magdeburg prison" was a comfortable apartment with a view to the garden and servants on call. From it he was shipped directly by government of Germany, to a "modest" post of a main "fuehrer" of Poland, arrived in Warsaw in a private car of a train, "incidently" just on November 11,1918. He was greeted at train station by three leaders of german-sponsored Poland /the triumvirate/ who swiftly passed on all the powers into him.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 Yes: I am employing the device of hyperbole for ironic effect in referring to a Dungeon, but there is no documentary or recorded anecdotal evidence about Pilsudski being a German stooge, or mole as you would say. Radzilowski may or may not be PC, but he is certainly accurate in his French observations; for example, what mutual consultation and encouragement was there during German remilitarization of the Rhineland!! What's your view on the recent Komorowski 'Weimar Triangle' meeting?
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 Again to your claim, that I did not condemn annexation of Zaolzie: I did, most harshly. But did you condemn annexation of Sudettenland?,If so, I did not see that. The instability of pre-war French policy is a fact. But more important is, what you might have missed a simultaneous assasination of French foreign.min.Baldour and king of Yugoslavia by a German agent and Pilsudski's coup in 1926. These two events were basis to dismantle Versaille security system. By the way, Pils.was so..
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 Yes certainly: Munich agreement was shameful and that is exactly where a friendly, rather than forced, Polish alliance could have helped, especially if backed by an otherwise vacillating UK govt; there were serious allied errors. I'll check the background to the assassinations but it seems rather tendentious conspiracy theory to me. You clearly know the Pilsudski detail; some revealing stuff here but the 'mole' idea is incredible. UK also lost its shipbuilding to EU - fishing too :-)
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 But UK is not loosing its own English people. Do you think Poles could be cheated forever?and Poles will build other fat and rich contries instead of their own?It's enough of it. We have 23%VAT,child items incl.,currency artificially kept high to discourage competition to other countries. etc,etc.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 Yes: I can imagine how you feel, but Polish withdrawal from EU may not be be the simple panacea you may think; she would be alone and inter-action with Germany might be even harder outside the EU; also, what of potential eastern conflicts: oil and gas pipelines, livestock and health standards etc. A bluntly risky historical postulation may be that the UK would have done better not to have declared war on Germany in 39; she lost her status as a world power and was made nearly bankrupt
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 Generally speaking England was traditionally unfriendly to Poland since middle 17 century if not from earlier times, it gave rise and favoured Prussia /most immoral & voracious country ever/ numerous times, that later declared war on her twice. It is disgusting.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 I agree yor1st point; Prussia+England are cousins often in alliance against their historic territorial opponents:France and her allies; one can also consider Protestant v Catholic squabbling. I concur yor 2nd only insofar as it was Bismark's aim to unite all German states under Prussian leadership (in rivalry with Austria). Yes: Poland had it tough, ringed with powerful neighbors that didn't like her much, but Pilsudski was right to try making a deal with the best of them: Austria.
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 I agree to your two judgments,although Poland was not a mere France's ally /actually most of the time it was in anti-French alliance in 18c/but was a separate country, largest in Europe and very powerful until it got paralised in Ist quarter of 18c due to treachery of Saxon kings,who themselves were imposed. Poland had a political system, that if healed from temporary disfunction was able to transform it quickly into most powerful force on continent-that's why it was kept under lid
wladys678 7 months ago
@elrjames777 deliberately in unrepair under a 1717 pact of 3 empires. It is not true that 3 neighbors did not like Poland, there was no animosity from Austria or Russia until partitions,only Prussia was an enemy. Pr.itself was a colony, a fief of Poland until 1671, Gdansk was faithful to Poland and in 1793 sustained 1 month long siege by Prussian army, only Russian treason made it end the resistance. Partitions were not imminent to last minute in 1795., despite what N.Davies says.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 The Polish constitution of 1815 bound Poland to Russia through the person of the Tsar who was also constitutional king of Poland. Although it can compare unfavourably to that of 1791, rights of habeas corpus and freedom of religion and the press were preferentially conferred on Poland by Alexander but there was no guarantee they would be carried on by Nicholas I, indeed after the Polish insurrection of 1830 the heavy hand of Russian repression fell upon the Congress Kingdom.
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 One the worst things England did to Poland was to counter Alexander Ist of Russia efforts in Vienna 1815 to rebuilt Poland under his leadership.So, as popularly called 4th partition of Poland 1815 we owe to England that took Dutchy of Poland /its historical craddle/ and Polish Pomerania with Gdansk and gifted it to Prussia, after it dropped it. "Regency of Poland" - do you mean the one that existed during WW1? It had little popular support,sorry but Poles instinctively backed Russia
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 Yes: but that is bcoz, in their eyes, the Tsar's proposal merely envisaged the aggrandizement of Russia, it was certainly advantageous to Russia to extend her borders westward; In any event, Alexander's statements and actions towards Poland between 1812 and 1815 are full of contradictions, admittedly motivated it seems by the sentiments of his heart and influenced by conversations with Czartoryski, Oginski and Kosciuszko who often expressed the injustice perpetrated by Catherine II. .
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 reluctant to perform this coup, that he postponed it many times and finally on THE day he suffered a mental brakdown after talking to Polish President, that the coup had to be hand-run by his aide and he was sent home to recover. "Weimar Triangle" in theory is good.In practice though,I can't see much of its significance. Poland has been treated so unfairly by EU in the last 20 years, best example is treatment Polish shipbuilding industry vs.German, that it lost its power&steam.
wladys678 7 months ago
@JBC814 But Poland's policy reversed again in the beginning of 1939,shortly before WW2. Why make war with Russia anyway,why not just leave her alone. These war plans were crazy and mischievous, assuming Germany's evil aims this war was unwinnable.But I don't agree USSr was a hell weaker than Russia and Stalin was naive like child to the last minute. What helped him wass massmurder on soviet POWS, upholding of hated soviet state farms by Germany,treatment of Slavs as subhumans.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 Poland was mistaken in antagonizing Germany + Czechoslovakia and not giving sufficient weight to Stalin as a dangerous irredentist threat. Soviet armies were the Worlds largest, but its officers were purged and it performed poorly in the 'Winter War'. Stalin wasn't naive but suspicious of allied advice. Yes: Nazi ideology stymied any ideas the GA may have wished to develop in liberating subject peoples from Bolshevism; dictatorial inadequacy in command led to their eventual defeat.
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 I just don't understand you first sentence and therefore it is hard for me to respond. I suspect,your sympathes are with Germany at that period and you likely read one of these publications, numerous on US market, that in a twisted way are blaming Poland for outbreak of WW2.It is like blaming a sheep it was eaten by a wolf. I can only repeat, that really Pilsudski and post-Pilsudski rule was to blame for breaking with France and turning into German bloc, but what can you expect ....
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 I know some European history but I am certainly no Nazi and their crimes were appalling. However, no good service is done to Poland in being presented by turns as either a regional super-power or else a hapless victim of past and present German aggression. Any critical remarks you could have made about Russian activity toward Poland are signally absent; this appears merely as crudely biased pseudo pan Slavism for its own sake, which has little in common with a balanced historical view
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 We are talking about outbreak of WW2, which was initiated exclusively by Germany for its own ends. We can speculate of who indirectly contributed to it. Certainly I condemn USSR and Stalin for the crime of conspiring w.Germany,is there any doubt to it? The basic thing is to resolve : was this war needed? I say NO. Russia needed to be liberated, but that war was to further unslave it, hterefore it was so wrong. Germany already had such vast territories, many of them was not really g
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 This is exactly the set of givens that we are not supposed to question as they are popularly received; however this can hamper lateral thinking and be tendentious; It can be argued that the outbreak of WWII began on the other side of the world in 1937 with the Japanese invasion of China. I agree 100% that an attack on Poland was not needed, that is why it is worthwhile to explore how it may have been avoided; a Czech alliance and negotiation with Germany over territory may have worked
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 Czech alliance YES. But negotiations of what territory??? In face of German voracious appetites...the more they get, the more they want. Reportedly, in secret negotiations Hitler was giving Poland the whole Ukraine and an access to Baltic out of Lithuanian coast, in exchange for participation in a war on USSR. This would't stop his appetite and aims of the war were highly immoral -whole thing would lead to a disaester anyway.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 There is a gulf between imperial German policy and Hitler's warped ideas (coming to fruition in the opportunities for evil engendered by war), which distorted the military values of the old Prussian state. Consider, for instance, if 20th July events had succeeded; would it not have been better for Bor-Komorowski (who was regarded by Stalin as a criminal) to have made a deal with GA to keep RA out.The Warsaw rising was seen, with hindsight, as pointless and possibly harmful to Poland.
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 To agree with your point about the "gulf.."one needs to know real german aims of WW1&WW2,both initiated by Germany.These aims, naturally were never revealed. All indicates these aims were in both cases the same, expansion,colonization and exploitation of new territories, mainly Russia. One who knows over one thousand relation with Geman Empire has no delussion.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 AJP Taylor: Bismark preferred Germany to expand overseas rather than down the Danube; eastern expansion was also remote for him; unlike Junkers of Silesia or West Prussia, he never had Poles among his peasants.The only Poles he denounced from personal experience were educated revolutionaries, which was why he disliked intellectuals in Politics. Equating Hitler and Hohenzollern is ridiculous; WW1 began coz of an Austrian ultimatum to Serbia + Germany being "shackled to the corpse"
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777
-------------- Germany beacuse it reached the Suez Canal and the distance from Mezopotamia to India was very short.Germany wanted to cut off Britain from the shortest way to India (the Suez) and capture India.That way they hoped to defeat Great Britain in any future war and achieve the status equal to America - a super power.Britain,fortunately,realised the danger posed by Germany,its tools:Austria-Hungary and Turkey and engaged in the Entente Cordiale with France.
PolskiNarodowiecND 6 months ago
@elrjames777 y thin and could be cut easily.Economically East Prussia could thrive only if at least all lower Vistula basin was occupied by Germany.But the Germans didn't want any more Poles within their borders as they fought tooth and nail with their already existing ones,trying to forcibly germanise them/us.Only when that objective was achieved,the Germans would wage war upon Russia for that part of Poland.
--------------
When it comes to Turkey,it was also very important to
PolskiNarodowiecND 6 months ago
@elrjames777 couldn't sustain itself without subsidiaries from the German interior;also,its population grew at the slowest pace in all Germany because of that,the Germans didn't make good use of Królewiec (Konigsberg in German-the entire areas was for 200 years a vassal province of Poland and it economically and geographically tends to Poland as its natural hinterland) as a port city.The connection between East Prussia and the rest of German held Poland was very
PolskiNarodowiecND 6 months ago
@elrjames777 the Osman Empire whilst aquiring colonial possesions was just a subsidiary goal of theirs and more of prestige than real interests if not counting aquiring rare resources from those colonies.Germany's aim was to secure East Prussia and straighten its north-eastern border with Russia so that it would be easily defendable.You see,East Prussia was by its natural predispositions,a very poor province with only amber as a resource of vast quantity and it
PolskiNarodowiecND 6 months ago
@elrjames777
@elrjames777
'Bismark preferred Germany to expand overseas rather than down the Danube; eastern expansion was also remote for him'
--------------------------------
That's where you've got it all wrong.The entire German aim after its unification in 1871 was to expand to the east into Russian held Poland and - slightly less important - to the Balkans and
PolskiNarodowiecND 6 months ago
@wladys678 Poland suffered cruelly from a vicious Nazi regime losing 1 in 5 of its population, if you wish to count Jews among them of course, but it is ridiculous to ascribe to Wilhelmine Germany motives of 'Mein Kampf', albeit with emotionally powerful reverse historical extrapolation of panslavic hindsight; Kaiser and Tsar were cousins! However, Willi's temperament was the worst possible in a crisis where the quality needed was not Nibelung loyalty to his ally Austria but cool common sense.
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 Can you tell, what do you mean by July 20 events? Naturally, the uprising shoul'd have never take place, especially in that time-schedule. There were many forces to blame for that tragedy, I'd rather stop short with this subject. In ref.to Bor,he was not a criminal but a gentleman /but not in a right place though/ , his decision was wrong. Stalin's radio propaganda before Aug.1,called on Warsawians to rise against Germans.It was pointless&harmful from PL perspective, not PL enemies.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 1. Abwehr was disbanded + subsumed by the SD in Feb 44; its leader Adm Canaris (an anti Hitler conspirator) was put under house arrest + later executed in a KZ. 2. In Jul 44 an attempt was made by WH officers to assassinate Hitler, arrest Nazis and declare martial law under the guise of 'operation Valkyrie' General Orders 1+2 were dispatched by the conspirators in Berlin on the aft of July 20th; the texts speak for themselves but are not fully available online; mail me and I'll send u
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 Abwehra&gestapo knew well in advance of the rising, but did nothing to stop it. Both Hitler and Himmler enjoyed the Aug.1 outbreak. Sadly for them, the had no much time left for their celebrations.
wladys678 7 months ago
@elrjames777 -ered just in 41. I am not a native English speaker and I don't know what the term GA stand for. I've read Ist hand eywitness story from those who witnessed assault on USSR /whom I can trust/, also remember some of what my parents said.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 OK sorry man :-) GA = German Army. Your English is mostly colloquial and the subtlety of much of what you are told seems to escape you. Also, many of your posts appear as highly politicized ethno nationalism and not sensible as alternative extrapolation. For example, this clip is about Czechoslovakia and you picture German theft of her territory after ’Munich’ as military terrorism, but concomitant Polish action as sacrificially heroic, this is not reasonable historical comparison
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 German, I am afraid, top architects of Versaille knew it wa a path to new war. "Sacrificially heroic", Iv'e NEVER said that, contrary I condemned as much as possible that action of sanacja govt.given the time context. But I must admit it wasn't sanacja']s initiative. If you've read my prior posts- I decribed it as "shameful", not heroic. What else do you expect me to say about Russia? sorry, but Stalin did not initiated this war and only joined Germany out of his own fear.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 Germ and Pole were both motivated by ethno-nationalist self interest in their relations with Czech. You alluded to Pole occupation of Czech land as "in consistance with prometheist goals" this may refer to Pilsudski's idea to split subject peoples from Russia but, as I reminded you b4, Prometheus was an heroic Greek figure, sacrificed by having his liver eaten out chained to a rock in punishment for stealing fire from Gods to give to mortals. Say something about USSR invading Poland!
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 I knew this old Gr.mythology story.Soviet aggression is a different subject, therefore I did not elaborate. Surely it was terrible. It lasted 9/39-6/41, much shorter than German, not to count what happened from mid44 and after. Soviets cooperated with Germany to murder Polish elite, they repeateddy met in Zakopane to coordinate this effort. They executed Polish patriots in prisons, at least 22,000-officers and exiled hundreds of thousands of ordinary people to Siberia.
wladys678 7 months ago
@elrjames777 You are right,'Prometeism' commonly applies to policy vs.Russia,but I also met an opinion that treachery of CS was preceded by inspiration from the same source. I'am sorry, at this moment I can not reach out to this, but perhaps I'd be able to do it in next few days. Total # of soviet victims were abt 1/2 million, not to count after 44, while German 6 million,some say even 11 million. Germany inspired,equipped&allowed Ukrainian terrorist movement that consumed at least 200,000civili
wladys678 7 months ago
@elrjames777 ..ans slaughtered. You may be disappointed what I say. My parents were by no means communist sympathizers and my father even hated it and Russians, which I think was a bit irresponsible, he was raised the austrian way /even though he was born after WW1/ and took their prejudices for granted.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 Re: "the Austrian way" - a poignant personal perspective that I can admire; I suppose that if we are going in for admissions it would not be out of place for me to state I have more than a small degree of sympathy toward the Hapsburg multi-ethnic imperial system, although they were seriously remiss in going to war with Serbia there was a war that was not needed if ever there was one. With Hindsight, could the 'Regency Kingdom of Poland' have worked, assuming goodwill on both sides.
elrjames777 7 months ago
@JBC814 claims? such a war alongside Germany woul'd have been unpopular among Poles no matter what promisses he made. Pacts with Japan were based on this prospective war with USSR, as Japan was not interested in Europe but the East. So Poland Jan.1939 ultimate rejection of of Hitler offer meant a delayed defeat for Germany, it lead to Hitler's pact with Stalin, which in turn made enraged Japan put stop to ongoing war against USSR,the released divisions Stalin sent to Poland 9/17/39.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 : Stalin delivered a crushing defeat to the Japanese in Siberia, which meant that Germany was all alone and the Japanese had no chance of winning any battles in Russia.
JBC814 7 months ago
@JBC814 The defeat wasn't crushing, as eg.more soviets than japanesie got killed in last battle and proportion was even worse since may39.After the battle Aug31,39 Japan was still considering offensive.Where is the contradiction? Kalkhin Gul did contribute to Japan's pullout but Ribbentrop-Molotov pact of 8/23/39 impacted it even more.The pact meant for Japan a war with USSR one to one, without german help as they counted for since pact of 1936.Japan never returned to war even in 1941.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 : Hitler stated in Mein Kampf that territories to the East (Ukraine) were to be annexed for Germany's expansion. He had no desire to invade the Western nations, and stated that he would avoid war with the West as much as possible. But the Polish invasion started a war on two fronts, so he delayed the Russian invasion to fight with the West, which cost him the war. The Kaiser made the same mistake in WW1. Both wars were about Russia, not the West.
JBC814 7 months ago
@JBC814 Japan never returned to war in Siberia and USSR was released from war on two fronts which would be fatal.This way Rydz/Beck decision meant defeat for Germany which was short in manpower. Shortly after 6/41 more than 3 million Soviet army surrended, it was very easy to win that war.Now Hitler & Germany arrogance toward Slavs guaranteed his defeat. More than 50% of these POWs died in german camps of maltreatment.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 : I don't believe any nation could have defeated Russia in WW2, even if Japan had stayed in the fighting. In WW1 Russia was easy pickings due to the unpopularity of the Czar and their feudal system, the country was bankrupt. However, Stalin knew in 1934 that Hitler was planning to invade Russia, and he was feigning weakness in order to lead Hitler into a trap. Hitler had only one chance and that was the capture of Russia's oil fields. But, he went to Moscow instead.
JBC814 7 months ago
I´am from Czech Republic. We was ready to fight, we made mobilization. We builded most modern bunkers in europe. Nazi army had ammo on two weeks of fighting. If they attacked us, and France hepled and made attack on Germany, war was over until 6 months and in my country was´nt nazi, any communist.
MrHon2a1 7 months ago
if i get a thumbs up I will say fuck you to my math teacher
piekid147 8 months ago
I think Germany received mercy from USA and Russia, they could make the german population completely dissappear after WWII if they would make that idea of Henry Morgenthau real. That means there would be no Germany and maybe not this discussion.
xgalba00 9 months ago
@xgalba00
They were lucky because they were not forced to give back all Polish lands occupied since the partitions such as Gdańsk (occupied since 1793),Warmia (since 1772) and large border areas in Great Poland.Yet they claimed that it was theirs!The Germans start wars when they have huge advantage and when they are forced to fight with some one their own size and lose,then they shout 'the injust Versailles Treaty'!.
PolskiNarodowiecND 8 months ago
@xgalba00
Hypocrisy.And they occupied western Poland for over a century and in the inter-war period they claimed that they 'lost German territory to Poland'.
PolskiNarodowiecND 8 months ago
@xgalba00
Great point.I've had enough of German arrogance and insolence.Twice they started a world war and twice they blamed others for it.Germany declared war upon Russia in 1914 but the German king convinced most Germans that it was Russia that declared war upon Germany.In what other country that would be possible?Only in a country whose nation treats everything favourable to Germans as good and true and unfavourable as bad and false.
PolskiNarodowiecND 8 months ago
Slováci a Česi bratia navždy <3 :)
zrub10 9 months ago
There will be interesting movie about Munich treaty in 2012 from Milos Forman. The name of the movie will be The Ghost of Munich. I'm looking forward
xgalba00 9 months ago
go czechs!
talew9 9 months ago
The Allies should stop hiding their history. The first invasions did not happen in 1939, but many years before that. The Czech invasion into German territory was only one of them. Also research how the "innocent" French invaded Germany in 1919 and in 1923, trying to enslave millions of people in the Saarland and the Rhineland under Alien rule.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
Hidden history: The Millions of Germans of course wanted to remain German, when they demonstrated peacefully in their streets in March 1919 , Czech tanks moved in and shot unarmed German demonstrators, many of them women, girls and even 12-year old boys. Hundreds were wounded and many died in the Massacre of KAADEN March 1919. Sudetenland was taken by military force.
If the Allies had not forced millions of peaceful people under Alien yoke in 1919, the world war would never have happened.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
"Czecho-Slovakia", a monstrosity created by those who claimed to bring "democracy", contained:
6.0 Million Czechs
2.9 Million Slovaks
3.5 Million Sudetengermans
0.8 Million Hungarians
0.5 Million Ruthenians (Ukrainians)
and other nations. None of all these people who were forced into this artificial state had ever been asked if they wanted to be in this state or not. As soon as the Sudetengermans achieved their freedom from Alien yoke in 1938, the Slovaks split up, too.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
A "Czecho-Slovak" Nation never existed in human history. Czechs and Slovaks are two different people. The Czechs not only forced 2.9 Million Slovaks into their artificial state, they also forced millions of Germans, Hungarians, Ukrainians and others into their state against their will - with military violence. And they called it "democracy".
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@Elberiver11 You dont seem to know much about history, why do you comment?! It would be better if you start making proper research on this topic, instead of listening what 'one old lady' said and then typing it down on YouTube. The Velvet Divorse happened due to Hitlers treatment of Slovakia (as a puppet) and then due to the state of Slovakia's economy. It has been difficult, after the collapse of communism, to reform this country. Czechs wanted more centralized politics ....
MissSladousek 10 months ago 3
@MissSladousek Czechs wanted "centralized" politics? LOL thats a nice euphemism for "czechs wanting to control Slovaks" ;)
Sorry, but it is very known that the Slovaks did not like to be controlled by Czech yoke. That is why they left your "democratic" nation as soon as they had the chance to.
It has nothing to do with communism. In 1938, CSR was not communist, and yet the Slovaks split up, too. They saw that Sudetengermans got freedom from Czech yoke, so they wanted it, too.
Elberiver11 9 months ago
@Elberiver11
The Sudetes provinces are core Czech provinces,both historically and nationally.They were and should never be German.Germans were just guests in the czech Kingdom and then,Czechoslovakia and how they behaved?Horribly.Out with such guests!
PolskiNarodowiecND 8 months ago
can you please explain to me what really happened because some idiot is trying to say Poles murdered germans in Sudatenland and the danzig corridor his exact words " @kxr225522 really...do you believe that..? do you not know that poland had taken german land and german people still lived there...do you not know that they were being killed by the poles...sudatenland and danzig corridor...mean anything to you...? fuckystoat " is this true or no I havnt got that far in Polish history
kurwafacken 7 months ago
@kurwafacken
Ps.Central European countries were force to sign the 'Minorities Treaty' in Versailles if they wanted to be recognised by the Entente.That was pure blackmail and its objective was to weaken those countries and disable the host nations of those countries to rule their own countries without looking at their minorities.That was sabotage.Naturally,Germany,although defeated (!!) was not forced to sign it!!!
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND But Jozef Beck renounced the Treaty in 1934, and a Czech policy of civic nationalism is in contrast to the hostility of a Polish state to its barely tolerated ethnic minorities. For example, comparing political anti-Semitism in Germany and Poland during the inter-war years, Prof Hagen states: "at the ideological level, anti-Semitic slogans and pronouncements of right-wing radicals, the Catholic Church and the post Pilsudski regime had become, by 1939, almost inter-changeable"
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 "barely tolerated minorities" this has nothing to do with truth, especially in comparison with Germany's cynical use of minorities both in and outside of country. But I admit, Rydz's policy toward Ukrainians was unexcusable. One must also remember that some of Abvehra trained Ukrainian agents perpetrated assassinations on Polish officials, remarkably on those who were friendly to them, obviusly to saw foment only.Ukrainians had their press and education facilities.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 As you bravely intimated, there is evidence of communal / cultural restriction, even forced assimilation. Policy was influenced, for example, by Dmowski , the OZN (Camp of National Unity) and the ‘National’ Democracy’ Movement with a following amoung academic youth and large landowners. Inter War Poland was an authoritarian ethno-nationalist state, not a civic democracy like Czech; there were for instance many more minority parliamentary deputies in Czech than in any of her neighbours
elrjames777 7 months ago
@elrjames777 Dmowski and his movement were considered enemies of the state, he didn't even receive official funeral ceremony, his followers barred from state posts, some persecuted and that movement was sharply aganist any joint action with Hitler's Germany, so what are you talking about? At the same time Abwehra was sponsoring ukrainian and other antipolish terrorism,organising provocations. The picture is clear. Stop demonising Poland.
wladys678 7 months ago
@wladys678 1.“demonizing Poland” is not an aim of this writer, who has often complimented her people in posts. 2. Reference to Nazi excess does not excuse inter War Polish state oppression of political and racial minorities; try reading Joanna Michlic’s.book on the subject. 3.This clip is about Edvard Benes' Czech state, in contrast with which the 2nd Republic does indeed appear as authoritarian and pernicious; it was not the open democratic society often implied by those hostile to Germany
elrjames777 7 months ago
Comment removed
wladys678 7 months ago
kurwafacken
to speak the largest lies in order to make themselves innocent victims of Polish oppression.Well...If you simply look who oppressed who since the last 200 years you'll laugh at those Germans who say that.That shows you just what attitude the German side had towards us Poles.Sadly,scientific literature is very small.I wish that that could be different.Despite I see wikipedia sa a horrible leftist and liberal outpost,I would advise you to check what they have on the subject.Cheers
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND Germans have been trying to take over Polska since the begining, we've even been wiped off the map and we're still here one more reason I'm proud to be a polack lol, I thought he was just talking shit but thanks for the full story you've been helpful and POLSKA NA ZAWSZE !!!! lol , cheers buddy
kurwafacken 7 months ago
@kurwafacken
Cheers mate.
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
@MissSladousek
OK, you have just proven that you dont even know the history of your own country. And now you tell me i should "research" history?
My research is , for example, Prof. Dr. Alfred de Zayas, Harvard Alumnus and Professor for International law. He calls the massmurder of Germans by Czech communist gangsters a "Genocide". As your country denies her history, i recommend you start researching your covered-up history.
PS: i dont hate the Czechs. I only hate lies.
Have a nice day
Elberiver11 9 months ago
@Elberiver11 Both sides agreed to seperate. However you might be interested that many Czechs and Slovaks desired the continued existence of Czechoslovakia and not wanted this seperation. Meciar was always criticised as one with lack of respect to democracy and for his autocratic style. About founding of Czechoslovakia .... Slovaks and Czechs wanted independence from Austro-Hungarian Empire, which they were part of for a looong time. When the Empire collapsed on the end of the WWI, much loved...
MissSladousek 10 months ago 3
@MissSladousek You just said "that many Czechs and Slovaks desired the continued existence of Czechoslovakia and not wanted this seperation."
OK, so if many Slovaks wanted that, why are they gone today? So they left you, because they loved you so much? LOL
Sorry, but this is nonsense. Its funny you order me to "research" history, when you dont even know the history and the presence of your own country.
Elberiver11 9 months ago
@MissSladousek
And you know who funded the Slovakian separatist movement?The Germans of course,just like in Croatia and Slovenia,by their fundations.Their aim is to break down larger Slavic countries into smaller ones,e.g.:Czechosloakia into the Czech Republic and Slovakia and Yougoslavia into Serbia,Bosnia and Herzegovina,Slovenia,Montenegro,Croatia.
PolskiNarodowiecND 7 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND Well and that might be true as well.. Regarding that I reckon it will be hard to prove, al thou logical, unless of course there is a proper evidence. But be honest evidence always tend to disappear in such cases.
MissSladousek 6 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND
Yes,that's what I'm saying.The old Roman proverb says:he who has interest in something,is guilty of doing that' and who is more interested in destroying its Slavic neighbours than Germany?They also gave weapons to Croatia,Slovenia and Bosna.The then German foreign minister,Hans Dietrich Genscher,was so quick to seize the opportunity to prepare European nations for a psychological schock of border change-first since 1945.We must have a Central European alliance against the.
PolskiNarodowiecND 6 months ago
@PolskiNarodowiecND Forgive me but your retrospective imposition of a contemporary pan-slavism on the past is making a grotesque parody of an otherwise enjoyable presentation of historical knowledge you clearly have at your disposal. My earlier remarks on Bismark were from AJP Taylor, HAL Fisher et alia, not just my own view. OK: in 1885, for instance, the Prussian diet (Bismark) compulsorily expropriated Polish landowners, although the Reichstag insisted on discussing and condemning this action
elrjames777 6 months ago
@Elberiver11 Tomas G Masaryk has finally got the independence of the Czechs together in union with Slovaks. Many western people loved Masaryk and he won their support. So... next time you would like to talk history, learn history first! About your other comments, they are very, how would one say that ... underdeveloped and uncommentable. Thank you
MissSladousek 10 months ago 3
Chamberlain was a traitor and a coward
jajaja881 10 months ago
Jozefporta
You must be born total idiot. It was more than right to deport all the sudetgermans out from Czecoslovakia after WWII. They were on Hitler side, a murder maniac who caused death of 50 millions Europeans. It was more than right to bomb the Germany. Most of german people agreed with Hitler. It was more than right to bomb Japan. The japs were not better than Hitler, they were even worse against Asians people. They tortured and killed people for joy!!! Hitler and Hirohito were barbarians.
josfol 11 months ago 3
@josfol If you violent Czech monsters had not invaded the Sudetenland in 1919, and if you had not used Military violence to murder innocent Sudetengermans, your beloved Hitler would not even exist, you idiot.
You should not talk about your stupid Hitler-nonsense all the time, better start researching your own guilt. Germany took the Sudetenland back in 1938, and the Germans were fully right to take back what YOU racist bastards had stolen. Stop hiding your guilt.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
Comment removed
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@josfol The Sudetenland was never Czech territory over the last 700 years, but i was crown posession of the German-Austrian Habsburg Monarchy, you moron. Learn history, you idiot. Are you American? You sound so stupid.
And stop crying your fake tears about Hitler, the return of the Sudetenland to Germany had nothing to do with Hitler, you moron. Any Government would have demanded the return of the land than YOU had stolen.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@josfol you cry about your beloved Nazis, when at the same time you spread your racist hate-speech , praising Allied genocides like HIROSHIMA and the YALTA-Genocide that murdered over 2.0 Million German children, women and elderly people. People like you wish to cover up your own Holocausts. But what do you expect from racists who praise the HIROSHIMA Holocaust. Racists like you should be punished.
PS: the deportation of the Sudetengermans was a Holocaust. Read history, you moron.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@Elberiver11 " the deportation of the Sudetengermans was a Holocaust. Read history, you moron..." you are realy funy; not you are realy idiot !
The Sudety were only germanized and not german land .
Ofc. the deportations of germans after war not were nice but this was punishment for war crimes and this did in ALL EUROPA !
Holocaust was your war for Big Germany empire for the Arian race !
The atom bomba was German and USA patent the Hiroshima not destroyed Czechoslovaks !!!
ThePribina 10 months ago
@ThePribina You are one of the most stupid people on earth. The Czech-Polish Communists murdered over 2.0 Million German families (CIVILIANS). This is officially recognized as a Genocide. But you Czech scum prefer to cover up your monstrous history, dont you?
Oh, and its really funny to blame the Germans for HIROSHIMA......hahahaha! What a joke. Are you trying to insult all the Japanese Victims, who were murdered by YOU? Be ashamed of your racist hate-speech, you Czech Nazi. Spodina.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@ThePribina 2.0 Million German CHILDREN, BABIES , WOMEN AND ELDERLY PEOPLE .- murdered by your dirty Czech-Polish Communist Grandfather. Shame on you! HIDDEN HOLOCAUST. Fuck Czechs and Poles! Get out of EU ! you are not Europe, you are COMMUNIST SCUM. Go back to great slavic brother russia, go back to your mongolian tribes where you came from. YOU ARE NOT EUROPE. Communist Mongolian scum.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@Elberiver11 Shame on you !
WW2 USSR killed 26 milions peoples !!!
Jews 6 milions !!!
Poland 5,6 milions peoples !
Jugoslavia 1 milion peoples !
USA 418 thousands
GB 450 thousands
France 562 thousands
Czechoslovakia 360 thousands....
Now you know why were killed the german civilians ?!!
ThePribina 10 months ago 2
@ThePribina
It is not worth to discuss with Elberiver11. I suggest that we finish our further discussion with him. The fact is that he was born idiot and you cannot do anything about it. He forgets that germans actually attacted periodicly the Czech territory for more that 1000 years and now they try to play big victims as for the Sudetengermans. Thank you for your support comments. I quit now.
josfol 10 months ago
@josfol Of course you are afraid to discuss with Elberiver - because he has facts that are too afraid to confront. You are a Genocide-denier, a racist and an anti-german hater. You try to cover up the Genocide of 2 Million german civilians - also many children - who were murdered by Czechs and Poles since 1945.
This genocide was planned by Benes and his Polish communist friends long time before 1938. Czechs are denying their Genocide on Sudetengermans, but internationally it is well-known.
Elberiver11 9 months ago
@josfol Sudetengermans do not "play" victims, they ARE victims. Or what else would you call people murdered in a genocide?
The Sudetengermans were forced under Czech Tyranny in 1919, by Czech military force. Czech tanks invaded the Sudetenland, against international law, and opened fire on unarmed demonstrators. Hundreds were murdered by Czech tanks in 1919.
It's the Czechs who play "victim". You cry tears about Prag 1968, but you did the same to Sudetengermans in 1919.
Elberiver11 9 months ago
@Elberiver11
Then the Germans ough to heva left Czechoslovakia if they didn't like it because it was never German territory but core Czech.Germans were only guests in the Czech Kingdom and Czechoslovakia and look how you sickos behaved to the nation that let you in.No wonder that you're universally hated and you haven't learned anything from your German shamefull past.If you don't like living in a certain country,then leave it you fucks and stop making trouble for the host nation!
PolskiNarodowiecND 8 months ago
@josfol Sudetenland 1919 = invasion of Aliens, forcing over 3.5 Million Germans under alien yoke.
Czechs lie about their history, by covering up who started conflict. It was not the Germans who invaded Czech territory in 1919 - but it was Czech troops who invaded Austrian territory in 1919 and oppressed over 3.5 Million people. Czechs forbade democratic elections for millions, and they called it "democracy".
In any case, please stop your hate for Sudetengermans. I think you are racist.
Elberiver11 9 months ago
@Elberiver11
Stop your stupid arguments about german and japanese victims during the WWII. You both began the war, killed millions and millions of people on this Earth and you had to take all the consequences and that´s it!!! Do us a favor and go and hide yourself!!! You are and you always will be an idiot!!!
josfol 9 months ago 2