Harper is the MAN!.... fuck the gun registry... fuck the indians....fuck the hippies... fuck quebec...fuck Kyoto, and GO TARSANDS!! We should build both the Keystone and the Gateway pipelines ASAP. good riddance liberal party of canada!
I have no issue with multiculturalism, but like any system it needs rules. free speech must rule over multiculturalism. any group against the freedoms within the charter is by definition against multicultralism. this is the weakness of multiculturalism - we have not set the proper terms and limits to it.
@paulfornasier - "You guys should write a book...hehe...Lots of reading to do to catch up on on this debate...will read it all later and see if I have any comments to add...." nah, just elect public servants who are willing to let people defend themselves more effectively against violent criminals. Harper's plans to clarify and strengthen the rules surrounding a citizens arrest is good news (thanks to David Chen - a hero), gun rights are next!
@bgibb101 You guys are PROLIFIC...LOL. Anyhow, I like the citizen's arrest part. The gun laws ...I'm not so sure about, as we both agreed previously that the extreme difference between the Canadian and US murder rate is likely linked strongly to gun regulation...AND a learned tolerance...is my additional thought on a major factor to account for such a drastic difference over a shared border. The US has a history of aggression..and it's hard not to link that...cause how else can you explain it?
@bgibb101 Also, I"m hesitant about trashing the gun registry....regardless of the waste of money when it was set up. The waste had more to do with misuse of money, in my opinion...than real production of a system... But now that it's in place, it's hard to deny that it's a good thing when police chiefs across the country show clear support for it...and state that is a well used and necesary tool of the trade.
Nice little primer, Judy. Would like to see more of you, with more detail on ramifications for human & civil rights in Canada as the right-wing agenda unfolds.
@paulfornasier- I mean, just how many more cab drivers and gas station attendants do we need? belgiunm, with a poulation of 10 million, has a greater GDP than the whole of Africa. Remember too, that the government here shells out more money in social assistance to immigrants ($12 billion annually) than it takes back in taxes, so really all we are doing is importing poverty. Whether Liberal or Conservative, it doesn't matter. All the goverment of the day is interest in is importing votes.
@Gricer1326- The writing is on the wall. If the ethnic vote is sufficient in one city to send a gay politician packing, just multiply this across the country and let's see where gay rights will be in 30 years from now. Indeed, if the present course is not averted, Canada will end up being nothing more than a 4,00 mile long land mass made up of different & insular ethnic cultural groups expecting all the benefits of living in a First World nation while giving very little back.
@paulfornasier - I agree with your pointn on the the gangs. They are all trash and should be treatedlike terrorists. More Third World immigrantsmeans more gangs in the long run. We need laws with teeth that deal ruthlessly with them.
@Gricer1326 - So my question is - what sort of Canada do you want in 30 years time? Believe me, I canot count the number of times I've met "new Canadians" who have been here for 20 years and can barely speak English. When white canadians become the minority in 30 years from now, what will happen to our culture, our insitutuions, our laws or even basic human rights? Filling up Canada with Third World immigrants seething with resentment for one another is recipe for disaster - and I've seen it.
@Gricer - yet they do not pay a penny towards our healthcare services. Ask my wife, she is a nurse in one of our biggest hosptials here. Now, not all immigrants are spongers, far from it. But there is still too many people coming to Canada fro the healthcare and financial benefits. hey are not in the least bit interested in becoming "Canadians" and go off and live in their ever-growing ethnic enclave because there is no requirement for them to integrate or learn to speak English. ...
@bgibb101 So what are you saying, immigrants have no right, as new Canadians, to use services they are entitled to? Do you realize people emigrate to Canada specifically because of the benefits you outlined?
As of this posting, Canada is a country where its residents are, for the most part, treated fairly and respectfully. That should not change.
@gricer1326 - No, I do not think we should be taking in so many immigrants and (B) allowing elderly parents to take up long-term care beds in our hosptiald without having paid a cent towards the system. Just how long can we keep this up?
@gricer1326 - The fact is, we don't have to take them, period. What do you think life will be like in 30 years from now with white Canadians in the minority , and huge ethnic ghettos in every major urban area? Toronto now has a school for black kids only, and Muslims here in Calgary want to build a gated community exclusively for themselves. We are too busy embracing everybody elses culture while watching our own disappear in the nasme of "diversity.' Dark days are ahead I assure you.
@bgibb101 You remind me a lot of a user named DanielVonRommel who thought all immigrants should be gunned down by the military as they approach the borders. I don't care about ethnic origin, culture, any of that. If people from other countries want to live here, I believe they are just as much Canadians as I am. I think you have the minority viewpoint here. Remember what paulfornasier said about areas like Little Italy.
@gricer1326 - If people from other countries want to live here, I believe they are just as much Canadians as I am." Bollocks. There is still to many people coming here for a free ride. They want healthcare and socialized housing. They are not in the least interested in becoming "Canadian." The European immigrants who built this country were self-sustaining and they integrated.
@gricer1326 - Further, the European immigrants who built this country were self-sustaining and they integrated. One day you will find yourself old, white, in the minority and discriminated against in your own country by the so-called "new Canadians." let's see how much you will be willing to embrace the lie of muklticulturalism and "diversity' then.
@bgibb101 I disagree. Many ethnic groups (here at least) have done a very good job integrating (Kensington Market, anyone?). And if you really support integration, how about a government programs that helps with that? e.g. a business assistance program for immigrants would help them start a business, give them all the necessary tools for startup and once the business can sustain the individual/family/group running it the government withdraws support.
@paulfornasier Actually Rob FRod killed the area's chances of gentrification when he cancelled the Finch West light rail line. Apologies to bgibb, but his fellow conservatives are working against what he believes in. The whole area is full of apartment buildings that look like they're about to fall down...pity. Although it creates the inaccurate stereotype that those kinds of areas are run-down and dangerous. The Esplanade is rather pleasant.
@paulfornasier It's pretty much the same, except the St. Clair streetcar has a new reserved right-of-way. The construction of it caused the failure of several businesses but new ones are springing up...I was up there a couple of weeks ago and most of the empty storefronts I had seen a few weeks previously had large signs saying either "now open!" or "coming soon!". Population wise, a few new condo towers have been built and the existing population appears to be gravitating to St. Clair itself.
@paulfornasier - There are West Indians and there are Jamaicans. When i visted the West Indies two years ago, their jail population had a high precentage to Jamaicans - they were not well liked at all. When I stopped over in Jamaica, it was a bloody toilet. What a dump! And we keep letting them in?
@gricer1326 "As far as I know there is no such program, then again i could be wrong. I would certainly be open to supporting such an initiative. You?" - Sure, why not? My main concern is this mental block with letting more white people in. Acording to some immigration blogs white people with money and specialized skills from South Africa, Europe and the UK are turned down for immigration to Canada with no explanation. If we must take in 240,000 people a year, lets have some balance at least.
@paulfornasier - I agree with your comment that many immigrants DO integrate. No argument there. My concern is when we start seeing moves towards racially segregated schools such as a black only school in Toronto, Muslim only schools and chinese only schools. Also the ever-expanding ethnic enclaves and moves towards a gated Muslim community here in Calgary. It is clear that they want to keep to themselves while enjoying the benefits financial of living in the West.
@paulfornasier Unless I'm actually IN Japan, I actually expect to hear perfect Canadian English from a person of Asian descent now. Well, at least one who is under 50. To me, Chinese-Canadian and Japanese-Canadian is just as normative as "white" Canadian.
@gricer, Today, most of our major cities are plagued with ever-growing ethnic gangs. We have Jamaicans shooting up Toronto, Tamil gangs in Scarborough, Vientamese gangs in Calgary, Somalian gangs in Winnipeg and Asian gangs in Vancouver. Currently, immigrants are costing the government over $12 billion in financial assistance and socialized husing - far more than they pay back in taxes. Immigrants bring over their elderly parents who eventually take up long-term care beds in our hospitals...
@paulfornasier - The early immigrants that built Canada were self-sustaining, and they integrated. I was once witness to a group of Canadian-born East Indian youths exchanging racial slurs with a group of native Indians here. I could'nt believe the sheer hostility between them, and whites get blamed for racism? the PMs of England and Germany recently stated that multiculturalism has failed in their countries. I truly believe that Canada is sleep-walking into a nightmare of multicultural madness.
@bgibb101 That's actually not true. Historically, ethnic enclaves have been the norm, from urban Chinatowns to rural Ukrainian and Mennonite communities like Vegreville to Metis settlements. Canadians have always tended to segregate themselves.
@bgibb101 I forgot to mention, being of German descent myself, that despite what the chancellor said, trying to maintain "racial purity" hasn't exactly worked out to hot for Germany either.
@paulfornasier - I understand your position regarding the construction industry. I run a security agency here in Calgary and its tough to find suitable employees now that we have new standards of training and licensing. The housing industry here is somewhat similar to where you are, with two large community projects being snapped up by East Indians almost exclusively. Few local whites can afford to buy some of those houses as the prices are artificially high as you say.
@paulfornasier - The much chanted mantra that we need more immigrants is a well worn myth. Trudeau called himself a "citizen of the world" and decided that';s exaxctly how Canada should be, a socialist paradise made up of ever culture on the planet. He didn't reckon on immigrants bringing their prejudices with them and creating etnic enclaves where they would rather live among themselves. The measure of a nation is in its productivity not in how many immigrants we can bring in.
@bgibb101 I have never had any problems with Jamaicans or Tamils, and I live in downtown Toronto which is a quite diverse area. I don't see what the problem with financial assistance is, as long as it's temporary.
@gricer1326 - Jamaicans live in Jane & Finch and Tamils live in Scarborough. Go live in one of those "ethnically rich" areas for a bit and see how you get on - assuming you are white. Only upper middle class whites and gays live in DT. Remember what happened to gay politician George Smitherman who was sent packing by the ethnic vote. Now watch this happen as non-white voters start shaping the country's political landscape as the white populaton begins to dwindle into insignificance.
@bgibb101 That's not true. There are all kinds of different ethnicities living here. I don't know how much time you ever spent downtown when you lived here.
@gricer1326 - The last time I was on a bus in TO, I was the only white person onboard. The bus driver had to call the police as two women, a Tamil and a Muslim screamed racial abuse at each other. Remember when Tamils blocked a highway in Toronto (using their kids) en mass to protest against the civil war in Sri Lanka? Not one person was arrested. If this had been a group of white unemployed people, they would have been arrested and their kids taken into care. Real Canadian thing to do huh?
@bgibb101 I take the College streetcar quite often (when I can't bike) to work, and it's usually a pretty diverse crowd. None of the problems you outlned have ever arisen in the past 15 years I've ridden it with some consistency. The problem with the Tamil roadblock incident is Toronto police. They're run by a guy as shady as Harper himself, they leave troublemakers alone and they harass those who are civi...believe me.
@gricer1326 - You are not encountering those problems because most people are off to work. Go live in a heavy ethnic area such as Jane & Finch or a heavily populated Tamil area. Let's see how long they leave you alone. As for police chiefs and judges, i have always believed that they should be elected.
@bgibb101 I've walked and biked through Scarborough many times with no problems, and I've also visited Jane&Finch several times without problems (note: the area was supposed to get two new light rail lines, one by 2018 and the other by the mid 2020s which would have helped the area gentrify, FRod cancelled them).
@bgibb101 I would caution against hypothetical arhguments like "if that was a bunch of whites..." because you don't know if that would be the reaction. Out here in Calgary, at least, I have to credit the cops with being really good about how protestors are dealt with (having been a protestor myself).
@bgibb101 I always hear ABOUT ethnic gangs too... but when I pay attention to the news, I always see white mugshots. If I was going to give an anecdotal conclusion, I would say that white Canadians are the main criminal class.
I was reading an article today from The Walrus. Search "Arrival of the Fittest". It looks at statistical evidence suggesting that the crime rate has gone down with increased immigration and that "immigrant" crime is mainly found amongst integrated 2nd and 3rd gens.
@gricer - Now we have Sikh Schools, Muslim schools, and a school for black kids only in Toronto. Two Muslim families (recently arrived) in Winnipeg have demanded that boys & girls are separated during gym classes, and that they do not attend music classes as it is against theier religion. Tuberculosis, a disease long defeated in Canada, made an appearance again in Toronto, thanks to Third World immigration. We now have multi-lingual government services and driving exam tests in nine languages.
@bgibb101 We've had Catholic schools in Calgary for over 120 years (in fact, they were first... public schools came later). And we have all sorts of different charter schools for different groups, from athletic schools to science schools to arts schools to girls schools to Native schools to Christian schools. By resisting "ethnic" schools you seem to be asking that "ethnic" groups be treated *unfairly*. On what grounds should Sikhs and Muslims be denied the same right to form a charter school?
@gricer - The Multicultural Act encourages newcomers to hold on to their language, culture, religious practises and dress code. They are not expected to integrate or accept Canadian values, which are alien to them for the most part. So you are from Vancouver? Ever take a walk through Bombay? Er, I meant Burnaby. Walk through the Jamaican ghetto of Jane & Finch in Toronto and see how safe you feel. Do you think that the Somalian gangs in Winnipeg "embrace" multiculturalism?
@paulfornasier - "You're wrong about Burnaby being an east indian city" I'll take your word for it as you live there. Overall, I think that since the move from mainly European immigration to a mainly Third World immigration population will have serious repercussions for Canada in the long run.
@paulfornasier - Hey! I started out in TO too! I moved over to Calgary where I own my own business now. I did see and experience the sectarianism that still exists under the surface between Protestants and Catholics. I have no time for it and have often been labelled a "traitor' on both sides, for the sin of having an Irish father and a Scottish mother. And my wife is Asian, well thats just unforgivable right? To hell with the sectarianists, I just live my own life let them live in the past.
@bgibb101 It is not only the Multicultrural Act. The Queen herself has said that "Canada asks no citizens to deny their forebears, to forsake their inheritance - only that each should accept and value the cultural freedom of others as he enjoys his own. It is a gentle invitation this call to citizenship."
Allowing people to maintain their language, culture, religion, and clothing IS a Canadian value, straight from our Head of State. Asking them to deny those is anti-Canadian values.
@gricer1326 - But the facts were plain enough. Ethnic Torontonians made it plain that they did not want to be represented by a homosexual, and they made their feelings plain via the ballot box. Now, this is only a taste of things to come in canada. We take in at least 240,000 immigrants a year form mainly Third World countries wheregay rights do not exist and homosexuals are driven out of communtities, punished or even executed. Just the kind of immigration we need huh?
@paulfornasier - Worst of all, Trudeau was ardently anti-American, even allowing Cuba's intelligence service to operate against the US from Montreal. He despised the free market, tried to transform Canada into another socialist Sweden, and fawned on marxist dictators like Mao, Nyere, and Castro. Forty years ago, Canada was rich, powerful and respected. Three decades of bullying Trudeau socialism undermined Canada's economy, the core of a nation's strength, and encouraged separatism in Quebec.
@paulfornasier - The immense historic economic damage inflicted by Trudeau on Canada may have fatally weakened this once robust nation is inexcusable. Trudeau and his followers have turned Canada into an over-taxed, debt-ridden multicultural disaster where white canadians will be the minority in 30 years from now. We'll see what our largely Third World population willdo to Trudeau's ":just sociey" when their influence turns into votes. Off home now - talk to you tomorrow.
@paulfornasier That's a good point... "fiscal responsibility" tends to be seen, amongst neo-liberals, as a synonym for cutting social services so that, in turn, taxes can be cut. But if your *goal* is to maintain social services (the delivery of which being the only legitimate function of a government), then "fiscal responsibility" sometimes *does* mean taxing the populace and keeping the revenue coming.
@bgibb101 Multicultural disaster? Excuse me, but I pride myself on being a citizen and resident of one of the world's most multicultural countries! You're going back to pettiness again, i thought we solved this problem!
@gricer1326 Must warn you bgibb101....grocer will get very angry at the facts. Whether it is Rob Ford being mayor of Toronto or Mr. Harper winning a well deserved majority for Canada....grocer always cries the sad "blues".
My observations are that you are easily destroying their pathetic points.
@paulfornasier Yeah apparently our pathetic points are being destroyed. That's mighty rich coming from mikey. And he STILL hasn't learned how to reply to the correct user.
@gricer1326 - "Multicultural disaster? Excuse me, but I pride myself on being a citizen and resident of one of the world's most multicultural countries! " Political correctness and social engineering has done its job well over the past 40 years in Canada. Let me give you a vision of the future of Canada via recent events in Toronto, where the mayoral elections were recently held. The leading candidate was an openly gay man, George Smitherman. ...
@gricer1326 - While most white Torontonians were cool with a gay mayoral candidate, most ethnic Torontonians were not. Smitheran made several carefully scripted TV appearances, kissing his same-sex husband with their adopted two-year old child sitting between them. Tamil language radio started putting out radio commercials concerning Smitherman's sexual orientation, and the Muslim community distibuted flyers asking, "should a Muslim vote for a man who calls another man his husband?"
@gricer1326 - Imagine if these radio commercials and posters were put out by a Baptist church? The queers would have been screaming bloody murder. But they were strangely silent over the Tamil & Muslim anti-gay advertising campaign. When the voting started, Africans, East Indians, West Indians, Tamils and Muslims turned out in large numbers and voted for Rob Ford, a white, heterosexual, politically incorrect politician. Smitherman laugfhingly blamed his loss on homophobia initiated by Ford...
@paulfornasier - Canada does not have a higher murder rate than the USA because (A) we don't have 330 million people up here, and (B) we have restrictions on the use and ownership of firearms. Not that the criminals care about the law anyway.
@bgibb101 Actually, comparison of violent crime statistics are done per capita, rendering point A irrelevant. For point B, you're look at a symptom for the cause. We have the kinds of laws we do regarding gun ownership because we have a radically different approach to guns than do Americans. For example, gun ownership has never been considered a legal right in Canada. It is a privilege granted by the Crown.
@CoryTheRaven - I disagree. Far too many Canadians have been psychologically conditioned witrh anit-American crap, thanks to decades of social engineering in Treaudopia. There are many good reasons why we should be allowed the right to protect our lives & property with firearms, concidering the recent spate of high profile cases where armed, law abiding citizens were able to drive off violent criminals just with the sight of a gun. So the crown has given us gun privileges?
@bgibb101 It's not a case of psychological conditioning to be anti-American. American gun laws have a very specific basis: it's considered a God-given right so that the populace may defend themselves from the government. Canadian gun laws also have a very specific basis: it is considered a privilege granted by the God-given Monarch for the defense of the Crown. It goes back to the Divine Right of Kings, not Trudeau. And we've ALWAYS had gun control. Look up the duties of the NWMP in the 19th c.
@CoryTheRaven - It is WE the people who allowed the public police to carry guns. But WE the people did not allow the police to be armed just so they can turn around and take away our guns. Leftie politicians in Canada, from former mayor of Toronto David Miller, to Jack Layton & Michael ignatieff all wanted a national handgun ban. Why? because criminals and other parasitic gangsters engage in shotouts and other turf wars using illegal handguns. the logic of the lefties is illogical .......
@bgibb101 "WE the people" is from the American Constitution. The basis of OUR Constitution, which you can easily Google, is the union of the colonies under the Crown, not "WE the people".
@CoryTheRaven - So what? So WE Canadians are not people? Remember who WE are. WE are the ones who put governments into power. The Prime Minister of this country is our servant, not our master, even though some of them act like they are God's gift to the nation (like Trudeau). So tell me why its so wrong for repsonsible, law abiding citizens to be proplerly armed to defend themselves, they families and their property against violent criminals?
@bgibb101 If I wanted to dismiss you the way you try to dismiss me by constantly invoking Trudeau, I would say that you've been indoctrinated into distorted views by too much American TV. "WE the people" are not the legal or political basis of the Canadian government. This is not a Republic. This is a Constitutional Monarchy. The ultimately authority of our system is not the people, but the Crown. You are free to disagree with the Crown, but it is false to say that our system is like the US.
@CoryTheRaven - I only bring up Trudeau as the architect of Canadas demise in many ways. So, we are a constutional monarchy. So what? Does this somehow prohibit us from having the right to self defence? I believe the 'Castle Doctrine' is what it is called. So please tell me why it won't work here. If ATC-3 permits can be given out to a select few, why not expand this right to others like myself who often works on criminal cases, involving interviewing parolled murderers?
@bgibb101 Actually yes, being a Monarchy DOES prohibit us from the right to self-defence. Our rights and freedoms are granted by the Crown through the Charter. You're welcome to disagree with the Crown and be as anti-monarchist as you want, but don't pretend that this all started with your favorite whipping boy. It's deeply engrained in our origins as a British colony.
@CoryTheRaven - So what happened? After armed police units had assembled, received their briefing and then went through multiple layers of authorization, 12 people were dead and another 25 were wounded. By the time that the Civil Nuclear Constabulary (an armed police service) hasd been called in to help hunt down the gunman, he had already shot himself, leaving a 35 mile long streak of destruction behind him.
@bgibb101 In fact, here is the preamble to the Charter: In fact, here is what the Charter says: "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law"
That is radically not the same as "WE the people".
@bgibb101 Also, you should know this: the Prime Minister is not the Head of State.
Why is it wrong from "law-abiding citizens" to carry guns? Well, for me personally, I want to know who will protect me from "law-abiding citziens". "Law-abiding citizens" are assuming a level of trust they have not earned. ANYONE with the potential capacity to deliberately murder me is a threat. That is why I feel safer with gun restrictions.
@CoryTheRaven - So you are assuming that not all law abiding citrizens are untrustworthy? Remember, there are interviews, police background checks, training, licencing and other things in place before you can own a gun. Then there is different licencing, depending on what sort of gun you want to own, then there is safe storage, yet another licence for transportation to a gun club, etc. Unlike crimials who ignore all the rules and carry illegal handguns anyway. Who do you trust?
@bgibb101 I assume ALL people are untrustworthy. But, this may sound weird, at least I can trust a criminal to be untrustworthy. I know that if a criminal targets me, it will be for a reason. Maybe I will give the criminal what they want and maybe I won't. At least I have that option.
I don't, however, know when a "law-abiding citizen" is going to lose their shit. And I have had, over the course of my life, enough death threats from "law-abiding citizens" not to trust any of them.
@CoryTheRaven - Well, it depends on the citizen now doesn't it? there is a difference between idle threats from a pissed of neighbour, and a career criminal who destroys the lives of the innocent. I have so many death threats it isn't funny. I've had cameras installed around my house, yet as a law abiding citizen, a former soldier and a licenced Private Investigator, i am completely at the mercy of anyone who comes after me with a gun in public. ....
@bgibb101 They weren't idle threats, but quite deliberate "if I had my way people like you would be drug out into the street and shot" sort of things.
However, for YOU in YOUR line of work I could see the value of owning firearms. I don't think that translates to the whole of society. Unless you have reasonable occupational certainty of running into a violent criminal or a bear, there is no actual reason for most people to need guns.
@CoryTheRaven - "They weren't idle threats, but quite deliberate "if I had my way people like you would be drug out into the street and shot" sort of things."
Well that sort of individual shouldn't have access to firearms, should they? And if they do possess guns, then that kind of threat against another citizen should be sufficient to have their firearms confiscated and their licence revoked.
@bgibb101 No, they're law-abiding citizens using their freedom of speech! You ain't takin' their guns away! Besides, I've never had my life threatened by someone who wasn't conservative, so they have the political support for keeping those guns.
@CoryTheRaven - Every province and territory has its CFO (Chief Firearms Officer). They have the power to grant ATC-3 permits to anyone who they believe "qualifies." Only 13 such permits have been given out in Ontario, a province of 13 million people. How many criminals are driving around in Toronto right now armed with semi-autos and Uzis. More than 13 would you say? But those ATC-3's given out are for the preservation of life, so the Crown does NOT outright prohibit a licence to carry....
@CoryTheRaven - No, CFOs are appointed by the respected provinicla goverment that IS elected by the people. it seems that they have agreed between them never to give out ATC-3 permits, except to those who have a bearing on their careers. However, this may now change once the Wild Rose Alliance gets in. They at least listen to concrned citizens like myself and have promised to loosen up the restrictions on ATC-3 permits so that those that those of us who reqiure them can have them
@bgibb101 Uh... an who authorizes the Provincial Legislature? The Lieutenant Governor. And who does the Lieutenant Governor represent? The Governor General. And who does the Governor General represent? The Crown. That is why bills have to get Royal Assent before they are made law. No offense, but you could use a civics class. This is not America.
@CoryTheRaven - Tell you what. Let's say you stop into a small quiet restaurant for a quick bite. There is two other people sitting in the far corner, eating and talking quiety, You ignore them. Suddenly two men walk in, pull out handguns and blast the other two diner to death. After recovering from a momentary bout of shock, you get up and run outside, afraid for your life. In the parking lot, you are confronted by another man, who pulls out his own handgun. You beg for mercy......
@CoryTheRaven - But the gunman is unsympatheitc. he points his wepaon at you and pulls the trigger. You find yourself lying in an ever widening pool of your own blood on a cold, dark parking lot. The faint sound of police sirens in the distance is the last thing you hear, before you ask yourself "why me?" with your last breath. Because, Mr. law abiding citizen, you were a witness, you were in the way, and because you were DEFENCELESS. ....
@bgibb101 Very dramatic senario you have created. But like all emotional appeals, it assumes much. Firstly, I am an ethical pacifist. I don't believe, for various reasons, in the use of violence, so this whole thing is a non-issue for me personally. Secondly, you're assuming what my reactions would be in that situation, and you don't know. I'm not even entirely sure that I'D know until I'm there. I do know that "begging for mercy" isn't on the cards since I'm too much of a defiant ass.
@CoryTheRaven - So your a pacifist?Do you think that the criminals really care about you or your views? What if you are confronted with some psycho, or just an evil criminal with a gun. What will you say? "You can't shoot me, I'm a pacifist and don't want to have anything to do with this situation!" Or me? Put that gun away at once! I am a licenced prvate Investigator and here is my badge." They would shoot either one of us in a heartbeat. i would rather be able to shoot back.
@bgibb101 "Do you think that the criminals really care about you or your views?" What a strange question to ask. I think you should probably do some research on nonviolent conflict resolution before asking strange rhetorical questions.
@CoryTheRaven -" Non violent conflict resolution?" Try that one on the Jamaican Yardies with their UZis in Toronto or the Vietnamese gangs in Calgary.
@bgibb101 I'm pretty sure that if I did keep a 9mm in my backpack, the Yardies with their Uzis would be able to take me out anyways. This attempt to scare me into agreement ignores two things:
First, a willingness to use violence does not mean that violence is guaranteed to work in your favour. In fact, the very nature of violence means that it has to fail for someone. Someone has to lose for the other person's violence to succeed, and there is no guarantee that I'll be the victor.
@CoryTheRaven - OK lets take this one at a time; "I'm pretty sure that if I did keep a 9mm in my backpack, the Yardies with their Uzis would be able to take me out anyways." At least you might take a couple of those parasites with you. Dead criminals give other cowards like them food for thought. Besides, why would you go near them? Stay out of trouble, mind your own business and only act if your life or the life of an innocent person near you is in danger. Simple rules work.
@bgibb101 No, dead criminals don't give other criminals food for thought. The criminals I have talked to by-in-large are prepared to die for their lifestyle. They try to hold it off as best they can, pretty much using the same logic you do. But reforming a life tends to come from existential crises of a different sort.
As for staying out of the way, your whole hypothetical situation in the diner was about how I could be a totally random victim. Your simple rules don't work in your own head.
@CoryTheRaven - "First, a willingness to use violence does not mean that violence is guaranteed to work in your favour. In fact, the very nature of violence means that it has to fail for someone. Someone has to lose for the other person's violence to succeed, and there is no guarantee that I'll be the victor." It is the criminals who are willing to use violence, not me. And it will fail for the criminal once they get a taste of their own medicine. ...
@bgibb101 Not only are you willing to use violence, you've been trying to convince me all day that you NEED to. Remember: there is only Reason and Force, and they don't listen to Reason so neither will you. All you're trying to do now is displace responsibility. It's everyone else who's in charge of your choices and actions, not you. You have to shoot that gun. You can't help yourself.
@CoryTheRaven - Wrong. I am not "willing" to use violence. I have often found that the best way to avoid trouble is simply to walk away or at least talk your way out of it. thi has worked for me 99% of the time. However, the remaining 1% has either involved having to physically defend myself against a violent individual who was either looking to imprwess his buddies or he was high on alcohol or nartcotics. So letr me try to claridfy my point further......
@bgibb101 I think you need to find a better word, because you are by definition willing to use violence. If you were not willing to use violence, you wouldn't use it. But you are willing to use violence. You may choose not to use it gratuitously, or unprovoked, but you are willing to use it. As a pacifist, I'M the one who is not willing to use violence.
@CoryTheRaven - OK, If I find myself in a situation where i cannot walk away or talk my way out of it, which may result in my aggressor pulling out a gun and shooting me, planting a baseball between my eyes or craving me up with a knife, then i have two choice; (A) use violence - .e., a measured response invlovling self-defence for the preservation of my life and safetry, or (B) do nothing and let him seriously injure or kill me, aking my wife a widow and my kids fatherless. However.....
@CoryTheRaven - Your response might be; Let the individual seriously injure you, therefore rendering you an invalid for the rest of your life (if you are lucky) or to kill you, whereupon you can go to your grave serene in the knowledge that the law is on your side. Good luck.
@bgibb101 The problem here is that you're so quick to skip over "walk or talk". Most people are though, for whatever reason. For me it simply boils down to the fact that I don't have the right to do violence to another person. Neither do you, nor anybody else. Most people are willing to take the perogative though, which is unfortunate.
@CoryTheRaven -"For me it simply boils down to the fact that I don't have the right to do violence to another person." Tell that to the muggers, rapists, murderers and pedophile offenders. THEY DO NO CARE WHAT YOU THINK. They are cowards who prey on the innocent. If every law abiding citizen was a pacifist, no matter how sincere, crime would be at epidemic proportions. I DO have the right to defend myself under the Criminal Code of Canada, something which you regard as "optional."....
@bgibb101 So apparently two wrongs DO make a right. Something that perhaps you do not understand about a commitment to pacifism is that it involves an intense amount of personal responsibility. I cannot displace blame for my actions onto anybody else. I cannot say I would be a just and peaceful person if not for those other people. I cannot say THEY are the ones willing to use violence and I'm just reacting. No one can force me to do anything. The only person who governs my actions is myself.
@CoryTheRaven - Pacifism never won wars. I wonder qwhere we would be today if our previous generations had such a laid back attitutde to Hitler and the Japanese Empire of WW2?
@bgibb101 OF COURSE pacifism has never won wars. What a ridiculous thing to say. Pacifism is not ABOUT winning wars! Wars are arbitrary conflicts between governments who want each others' territory and resources. OF COURSE pacifism is an ineffective tactic for waging war.
Of course, if you want to ever read up on the humanitarian successes of nonviolence during WWII and India and the USA, you're more than welcome to. Pacifists have a different set of priorities.
@bgibb101 The flipside about taking responsibility for myself is that I cannot control the outcomes and consequences of my interactions with others. It's recognizing what I've been saying to you all along here: there are no guarantees about ANYTHING, whether you act violently or nonviolently. No one can force me to do anything and I cannot rely on forcing anybody to do anything either. I have to give up any notion that I can exert control over others, both morally and as a matter of fact.
@bgibb101 The suprising outcome is that one gets to live without fear. I know it doesn't make sense to you, because it seems to me that your line of work has distorted your perception of humanity to the point that fear and force are the only ways you seem capable of interacting with others. I've given up on force and that has made me give up on fear. I am realistic about the possible threats to me, but I've made peace with that. But it's also given me a lot of freedom. Moreso than a gun would.
@CoryTheRaven - " it seems to me that your line of work has distorted your perception of humanity to the point that fear and force are the only ways you seem capable of interacting with others" And you ignored or didn't pay attention to one of my last posts. fear has nothing to do with it - if I can talk my way out of a situation and/or simply walk away, I will do so, and it has worked for me 99% of the time. I take each day as it comes and treat people with respect, hoever......
@bgibb101 Fear has everything to do with it, doesn't it? Everything you have said to me in our whole discussion points to a fear of victimization and uncertainty. It seems to be your whole rationalization for wanting the certainty of bearing arms. It's way beyond a rational understanding of your occupation's hazards and affects your whole outlook on humanity. You even went so far as to say that the only ways to deal with people were Reason (aka: Persuasion) and Force. That is a total distortion.
@CoryTheRaven - NO it does not. "Fear" is not in my vocabulary. "Even the odds against the bad guys," is. just listen to the number of 911 calls on Youtube, made by terrified women as stalkers and rapists broke into their homes. Locked windows and doors did not stop them, and even dogs did not stop them. The police were too far away to get there in time. All of those women are alive today because they had access to a gun and wwere able to put a bullet in their attackers. Howvere....
@bgibb101 You're starting to repeat talking points I already gave my answer to. Nor have you really made a convincing rebuttal to being motivated by fear when all evidence points to the contrary.
@bgibb101 And don't even get me started on what, actually, did start this whole discussion: fear of immigrants. Fear of how they're going to change our society, fear of the crime they supposedly bring, fear of how they'll upset the balance of power and the complexion of the nation...
@CoryTheRaven - So you are happy for Canada to become a Third World country? As I stated earlier, Goerge Smitherman was defeated in the Toronto Mayoral elections because large numbers of non-white immigrants voted against him. They were quite open and honest about the fact that they do not want a homosexual mayor. Now, just multiply those votes in 30 years and see what will happen to your "open, tolerant society' once white Canadians become the minority in their own country.
@bgibb101 Why yes, I am happy to see Canada become a 3rd World country. Of course I am. How could it be any different? Why wouldn't I be? You're absolutely right! Bring on the poverty and slums!
This is getting ridiculous. You're just repeating tired cliches now. Given that you support parties who are opposed to gay rights, this whole line from your mouth is disingenuous. Gay rights issues do concern me - more than they concern you apparently - and I'm prepared to continue that struggle.
@CoryTheRaven - Would you prefer that a woman is raped and strangled, or that she was able to stop her attacker? Is a dead female rape victim in Canada morally superior to a would-be-female victim in the USA that was able to put a bullet in her attacker? If a woman in Niagra Falls USA uses pepper spray to fend of an attacker she is praised. If a woman in Niagra Falls, Canada uses pepper spray to fend of an attacker she is charged. Sheer bloody madness.
@bgibb101 Why yes, OF COURSE I do prefer that the woman get raped and strangled. I prefer that ALL women get raped and strangled! And I prefer they get raped and strangled by men of darker skin tones than themselves, so that they can populate Canada with dark-skinned rape babies! This is totally an effective argument against nonviolence and immigration! I am utterly convinced by your histrionic outbursts!
@CoryTheRaven - "Why yes, OF COURSE I do prefer that the woman get raped and strangled. I prefer that ALL women get raped and strangled!"
Apart from the sarcasm that is dripping from that statement, why ARE women here prohibited from carrying pepper spray? As for 'dark skinned rapists, they are flling up the prisons in Europe quite well. Not something we want to see
right wing cunts
you are the worlds problems and hope you all die
lovewithdrugs 2 months ago
Harper is the MAN!.... fuck the gun registry... fuck the indians....fuck the hippies... fuck quebec...fuck Kyoto, and GO TARSANDS!! We should build both the Keystone and the Gateway pipelines ASAP. good riddance liberal party of canada!
dogterd 3 months ago
Democracy Now, nice channel for socialist bums
TheMarksmenCat 3 months ago 2
typical Communist crap.....thank god for a Conservative Majority!
gopconservative78 5 months ago 3
Left wing ding bats.
pittsky 6 months ago
The NDP is not left enough for this weirdo, and she calls others extreme.
yukoncornileus4 8 months ago 2
He stopped funding socialists..... how repressive.
yukoncornileus4 8 months ago
I have no issue with multiculturalism, but like any system it needs rules. free speech must rule over multiculturalism. any group against the freedoms within the charter is by definition against multicultralism. this is the weakness of multiculturalism - we have not set the proper terms and limits to it.
UpstairsMaid 8 months ago
Ya onther socialist/marist...libtard
thankyou GTA
robbb661 9 months ago
She had a good run of stealing from the taxpayer but it's over now.
andrelebaron 9 months ago
Long live ....VOTE SPLITTING........you dumb bitch
robbb661 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - "You guys should write a book...hehe...Lots of reading to do to catch up on on this debate...will read it all later and see if I have any comments to add...." nah, just elect public servants who are willing to let people defend themselves more effectively against violent criminals. Harper's plans to clarify and strengthen the rules surrounding a citizens arrest is good news (thanks to David Chen - a hero), gun rights are next!
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 You guys are PROLIFIC...LOL. Anyhow, I like the citizen's arrest part. The gun laws ...I'm not so sure about, as we both agreed previously that the extreme difference between the Canadian and US murder rate is likely linked strongly to gun regulation...AND a learned tolerance...is my additional thought on a major factor to account for such a drastic difference over a shared border. The US has a history of aggression..and it's hard not to link that...cause how else can you explain it?
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Also, I"m hesitant about trashing the gun registry....regardless of the waste of money when it was set up. The waste had more to do with misuse of money, in my opinion...than real production of a system... But now that it's in place, it's hard to deny that it's a good thing when police chiefs across the country show clear support for it...and state that is a well used and necesary tool of the trade.
paulfornasier 9 months ago
Nice little primer, Judy. Would like to see more of you, with more detail on ramifications for human & civil rights in Canada as the right-wing agenda unfolds.
offmymedsgeezer 9 months ago
@paulfornasier- I mean, just how many more cab drivers and gas station attendants do we need? belgiunm, with a poulation of 10 million, has a greater GDP than the whole of Africa. Remember too, that the government here shells out more money in social assistance to immigrants ($12 billion annually) than it takes back in taxes, so really all we are doing is importing poverty. Whether Liberal or Conservative, it doesn't matter. All the goverment of the day is interest in is importing votes.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@Gricer1326- The writing is on the wall. If the ethnic vote is sufficient in one city to send a gay politician packing, just multiply this across the country and let's see where gay rights will be in 30 years from now. Indeed, if the present course is not averted, Canada will end up being nothing more than a 4,00 mile long land mass made up of different & insular ethnic cultural groups expecting all the benefits of living in a First World nation while giving very little back.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I must warn you....grocer and pauly-boy get very angry when challenged.
They will throw out insults and lies to back up their very poorly phrased arguments.
I only wish that they would, "Stand up for Canada".
Interesting that they absolutely refuse to respond with this phrase....how sad!
mikefastener 9 months ago
@mikefastener Says you.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@mikefastener Hey mikey, what in your opinion is a well-supported factual argument?
Just wondering.
gricer1326 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - I agree with your pointn on the the gangs. They are all trash and should be treatedlike terrorists. More Third World immigrantsmeans more gangs in the long run. We need laws with teeth that deal ruthlessly with them.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Did you even read what was just said about the gangs?
gricer1326 9 months ago
@Gricer1326 - So my question is - what sort of Canada do you want in 30 years time? Believe me, I canot count the number of times I've met "new Canadians" who have been here for 20 years and can barely speak English. When white canadians become the minority in 30 years from now, what will happen to our culture, our insitutuions, our laws or even basic human rights? Filling up Canada with Third World immigrants seething with resentment for one another is recipe for disaster - and I've seen it.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@Gricer - yet they do not pay a penny towards our healthcare services. Ask my wife, she is a nurse in one of our biggest hosptials here. Now, not all immigrants are spongers, far from it. But there is still too many people coming to Canada fro the healthcare and financial benefits. hey are not in the least bit interested in becoming "Canadians" and go off and live in their ever-growing ethnic enclave because there is no requirement for them to integrate or learn to speak English. ...
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 So what are you saying, immigrants have no right, as new Canadians, to use services they are entitled to? Do you realize people emigrate to Canada specifically because of the benefits you outlined?
As of this posting, Canada is a country where its residents are, for the most part, treated fairly and respectfully. That should not change.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@gricer1326 - No, I do not think we should be taking in so many immigrants and (B) allowing elderly parents to take up long-term care beds in our hosptiald without having paid a cent towards the system. Just how long can we keep this up?
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Well who else is going to take them? Again, are you saying immigrant Canadians have no right to the same benefits the rest of us do?
gricer1326 9 months ago
@gricer1326 - The fact is, we don't have to take them, period. What do you think life will be like in 30 years from now with white Canadians in the minority , and huge ethnic ghettos in every major urban area? Toronto now has a school for black kids only, and Muslims here in Calgary want to build a gated community exclusively for themselves. We are too busy embracing everybody elses culture while watching our own disappear in the nasme of "diversity.' Dark days are ahead I assure you.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 You remind me a lot of a user named DanielVonRommel who thought all immigrants should be gunned down by the military as they approach the borders. I don't care about ethnic origin, culture, any of that. If people from other countries want to live here, I believe they are just as much Canadians as I am. I think you have the minority viewpoint here. Remember what paulfornasier said about areas like Little Italy.
gricer1326 9 months ago
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@gricer1326 - If people from other countries want to live here, I believe they are just as much Canadians as I am." Bollocks. There is still to many people coming here for a free ride. They want healthcare and socialized housing. They are not in the least interested in becoming "Canadian." The European immigrants who built this country were self-sustaining and they integrated.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@gricer1326 - Further, the European immigrants who built this country were self-sustaining and they integrated. One day you will find yourself old, white, in the minority and discriminated against in your own country by the so-called "new Canadians." let's see how much you will be willing to embrace the lie of muklticulturalism and "diversity' then.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I disagree. Many ethnic groups (here at least) have done a very good job integrating (Kensington Market, anyone?). And if you really support integration, how about a government programs that helps with that? e.g. a business assistance program for immigrants would help them start a business, give them all the necessary tools for startup and once the business can sustain the individual/family/group running it the government withdraws support.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@bgibb101 As far as I know there is no such program, then again i could be wrong. I would certainly be open to supporting such an initiative. You?
gricer1326 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Actually Rob FRod killed the area's chances of gentrification when he cancelled the Finch West light rail line. Apologies to bgibb, but his fellow conservatives are working against what he believes in. The whole area is full of apartment buildings that look like they're about to fall down...pity. Although it creates the inaccurate stereotype that those kinds of areas are run-down and dangerous. The Esplanade is rather pleasant.
gricer1326 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier It's pretty much the same, except the St. Clair streetcar has a new reserved right-of-way. The construction of it caused the failure of several businesses but new ones are springing up...I was up there a couple of weeks ago and most of the empty storefronts I had seen a few weeks previously had large signs saying either "now open!" or "coming soon!". Population wise, a few new condo towers have been built and the existing population appears to be gravitating to St. Clair itself.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - There are West Indians and there are Jamaicans. When i visted the West Indies two years ago, their jail population had a high precentage to Jamaicans - they were not well liked at all. When I stopped over in Jamaica, it was a bloody toilet. What a dump! And we keep letting them in?
bgibb101 9 months ago
@gricer1326 "As far as I know there is no such program, then again i could be wrong. I would certainly be open to supporting such an initiative. You?" - Sure, why not? My main concern is this mental block with letting more white people in. Acording to some immigration blogs white people with money and specialized skills from South Africa, Europe and the UK are turned down for immigration to Canada with no explanation. If we must take in 240,000 people a year, lets have some balance at least.
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - I agree with your comment that many immigrants DO integrate. No argument there. My concern is when we start seeing moves towards racially segregated schools such as a black only school in Toronto, Muslim only schools and chinese only schools. Also the ever-expanding ethnic enclaves and moves towards a gated Muslim community here in Calgary. It is clear that they want to keep to themselves while enjoying the benefits financial of living in the West.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Unless I'm actually IN Japan, I actually expect to hear perfect Canadian English from a person of Asian descent now. Well, at least one who is under 50. To me, Chinese-Canadian and Japanese-Canadian is just as normative as "white" Canadian.
P.S.: I'm in and from Calgary.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - Remember, that the immigrants who built Canada, like your parents- were largely self-sustaining and integrated.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@gricer, Today, most of our major cities are plagued with ever-growing ethnic gangs. We have Jamaicans shooting up Toronto, Tamil gangs in Scarborough, Vientamese gangs in Calgary, Somalian gangs in Winnipeg and Asian gangs in Vancouver. Currently, immigrants are costing the government over $12 billion in financial assistance and socialized husing - far more than they pay back in taxes. Immigrants bring over their elderly parents who eventually take up long-term care beds in our hospitals...
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - The early immigrants that built Canada were self-sustaining, and they integrated. I was once witness to a group of Canadian-born East Indian youths exchanging racial slurs with a group of native Indians here. I could'nt believe the sheer hostility between them, and whites get blamed for racism? the PMs of England and Germany recently stated that multiculturalism has failed in their countries. I truly believe that Canada is sleep-walking into a nightmare of multicultural madness.
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Religion.....
gricer1326 9 months ago
@bgibb101 That's actually not true. Historically, ethnic enclaves have been the norm, from urban Chinatowns to rural Ukrainian and Mennonite communities like Vegreville to Metis settlements. Canadians have always tended to segregate themselves.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I forgot to mention, being of German descent myself, that despite what the chancellor said, trying to maintain "racial purity" hasn't exactly worked out to hot for Germany either.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - I understand your position regarding the construction industry. I run a security agency here in Calgary and its tough to find suitable employees now that we have new standards of training and licensing. The housing industry here is somewhat similar to where you are, with two large community projects being snapped up by East Indians almost exclusively. Few local whites can afford to buy some of those houses as the prices are artificially high as you say.
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - The much chanted mantra that we need more immigrants is a well worn myth. Trudeau called himself a "citizen of the world" and decided that';s exaxctly how Canada should be, a socialist paradise made up of ever culture on the planet. He didn't reckon on immigrants bringing their prejudices with them and creating etnic enclaves where they would rather live among themselves. The measure of a nation is in its productivity not in how many immigrants we can bring in.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I have never had any problems with Jamaicans or Tamils, and I live in downtown Toronto which is a quite diverse area. I don't see what the problem with financial assistance is, as long as it's temporary.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@gricer1326 - Jamaicans live in Jane & Finch and Tamils live in Scarborough. Go live in one of those "ethnically rich" areas for a bit and see how you get on - assuming you are white. Only upper middle class whites and gays live in DT. Remember what happened to gay politician George Smitherman who was sent packing by the ethnic vote. Now watch this happen as non-white voters start shaping the country's political landscape as the white populaton begins to dwindle into insignificance.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 That's not true. There are all kinds of different ethnicities living here. I don't know how much time you ever spent downtown when you lived here.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@gricer1326 - The last time I was on a bus in TO, I was the only white person onboard. The bus driver had to call the police as two women, a Tamil and a Muslim screamed racial abuse at each other. Remember when Tamils blocked a highway in Toronto (using their kids) en mass to protest against the civil war in Sri Lanka? Not one person was arrested. If this had been a group of white unemployed people, they would have been arrested and their kids taken into care. Real Canadian thing to do huh?
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I take the College streetcar quite often (when I can't bike) to work, and it's usually a pretty diverse crowd. None of the problems you outlned have ever arisen in the past 15 years I've ridden it with some consistency. The problem with the Tamil roadblock incident is Toronto police. They're run by a guy as shady as Harper himself, they leave troublemakers alone and they harass those who are civi...believe me.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@gricer1326 - You are not encountering those problems because most people are off to work. Go live in a heavy ethnic area such as Jane & Finch or a heavily populated Tamil area. Let's see how long they leave you alone. As for police chiefs and judges, i have always believed that they should be elected.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I've walked and biked through Scarborough many times with no problems, and I've also visited Jane&Finch several times without problems (note: the area was supposed to get two new light rail lines, one by 2018 and the other by the mid 2020s which would have helped the area gentrify, FRod cancelled them).
gricer1326 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier I mean, it's still a problem area by a long shot, but I've never been harassed by any of the locals.
gricer1326 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I would caution against hypothetical arhguments like "if that was a bunch of whites..." because you don't know if that would be the reaction. Out here in Calgary, at least, I have to credit the cops with being really good about how protestors are dealt with (having been a protestor myself).
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
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CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I always hear ABOUT ethnic gangs too... but when I pay attention to the news, I always see white mugshots. If I was going to give an anecdotal conclusion, I would say that white Canadians are the main criminal class.
I was reading an article today from The Walrus. Search "Arrival of the Fittest". It looks at statistical evidence suggesting that the crime rate has gone down with increased immigration and that "immigrant" crime is mainly found amongst integrated 2nd and 3rd gens.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@gricer - Now we have Sikh Schools, Muslim schools, and a school for black kids only in Toronto. Two Muslim families (recently arrived) in Winnipeg have demanded that boys & girls are separated during gym classes, and that they do not attend music classes as it is against theier religion. Tuberculosis, a disease long defeated in Canada, made an appearance again in Toronto, thanks to Third World immigration. We now have multi-lingual government services and driving exam tests in nine languages.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 We've had Catholic schools in Calgary for over 120 years (in fact, they were first... public schools came later). And we have all sorts of different charter schools for different groups, from athletic schools to science schools to arts schools to girls schools to Native schools to Christian schools. By resisting "ethnic" schools you seem to be asking that "ethnic" groups be treated *unfairly*. On what grounds should Sikhs and Muslims be denied the same right to form a charter school?
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@gricer - The Multicultural Act encourages newcomers to hold on to their language, culture, religious practises and dress code. They are not expected to integrate or accept Canadian values, which are alien to them for the most part. So you are from Vancouver? Ever take a walk through Bombay? Er, I meant Burnaby. Walk through the Jamaican ghetto of Jane & Finch in Toronto and see how safe you feel. Do you think that the Somalian gangs in Winnipeg "embrace" multiculturalism?
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - "You're wrong about Burnaby being an east indian city" I'll take your word for it as you live there. Overall, I think that since the move from mainly European immigration to a mainly Third World immigration population will have serious repercussions for Canada in the long run.
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - Hey! I started out in TO too! I moved over to Calgary where I own my own business now. I did see and experience the sectarianism that still exists under the surface between Protestants and Catholics. I have no time for it and have often been labelled a "traitor' on both sides, for the sin of having an Irish father and a Scottish mother. And my wife is Asian, well thats just unforgivable right? To hell with the sectarianists, I just live my own life let them live in the past.
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@bgibb101 No I'm not from Vancouver. I'm not against immigrants but I do believe they should understand the rules. And follow them.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@bgibb101 It is not only the Multicultrural Act. The Queen herself has said that "Canada asks no citizens to deny their forebears, to forsake their inheritance - only that each should accept and value the cultural freedom of others as he enjoys his own. It is a gentle invitation this call to citizenship."
Allowing people to maintain their language, culture, religion, and clothing IS a Canadian value, straight from our Head of State. Asking them to deny those is anti-Canadian values.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@gricer1326 - But the facts were plain enough. Ethnic Torontonians made it plain that they did not want to be represented by a homosexual, and they made their feelings plain via the ballot box. Now, this is only a taste of things to come in canada. We take in at least 240,000 immigrants a year form mainly Third World countries wheregay rights do not exist and homosexuals are driven out of communtities, punished or even executed. Just the kind of immigration we need huh?
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - Worst of all, Trudeau was ardently anti-American, even allowing Cuba's intelligence service to operate against the US from Montreal. He despised the free market, tried to transform Canada into another socialist Sweden, and fawned on marxist dictators like Mao, Nyere, and Castro. Forty years ago, Canada was rich, powerful and respected. Three decades of bullying Trudeau socialism undermined Canada's economy, the core of a nation's strength, and encouraged separatism in Quebec.
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - The immense historic economic damage inflicted by Trudeau on Canada may have fatally weakened this once robust nation is inexcusable. Trudeau and his followers have turned Canada into an over-taxed, debt-ridden multicultural disaster where white canadians will be the minority in 30 years from now. We'll see what our largely Third World population willdo to Trudeau's ":just sociey" when their influence turns into votes. Off home now - talk to you tomorrow.
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier That's a good point... "fiscal responsibility" tends to be seen, amongst neo-liberals, as a synonym for cutting social services so that, in turn, taxes can be cut. But if your *goal* is to maintain social services (the delivery of which being the only legitimate function of a government), then "fiscal responsibility" sometimes *does* mean taxing the populace and keeping the revenue coming.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Multicultural disaster? Excuse me, but I pride myself on being a citizen and resident of one of the world's most multicultural countries! You're going back to pettiness again, i thought we solved this problem!
gricer1326 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Noticed he seems to be gone...
gricer1326 9 months ago
@gricer1326 Must warn you bgibb101....grocer will get very angry at the facts. Whether it is Rob Ford being mayor of Toronto or Mr. Harper winning a well deserved majority for Canada....grocer always cries the sad "blues".
My observations are that you are easily destroying their pathetic points.
Good work for Canada!
mikefastener 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Yeah apparently our pathetic points are being destroyed. That's mighty rich coming from mikey. And he STILL hasn't learned how to reply to the correct user.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@paulfornasier No need to say anything.....bgibb101 is mopping the floor with you and grocer.
I am just sitting back and enjoying the show!
mikefastener 9 months ago
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@gricer1326 - "Multicultural disaster? Excuse me, but I pride myself on being a citizen and resident of one of the world's most multicultural countries! " Political correctness and social engineering has done its job well over the past 40 years in Canada. Let me give you a vision of the future of Canada via recent events in Toronto, where the mayoral elections were recently held. The leading candidate was an openly gay man, George Smitherman. ...
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Yeah bgibb, I know, I live there.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@gricer1326 - While most white Torontonians were cool with a gay mayoral candidate, most ethnic Torontonians were not. Smitheran made several carefully scripted TV appearances, kissing his same-sex husband with their adopted two-year old child sitting between them. Tamil language radio started putting out radio commercials concerning Smitherman's sexual orientation, and the Muslim community distibuted flyers asking, "should a Muslim vote for a man who calls another man his husband?"
bgibb101 9 months ago
@gricer1326 - Imagine if these radio commercials and posters were put out by a Baptist church? The queers would have been screaming bloody murder. But they were strangely silent over the Tamil & Muslim anti-gay advertising campaign. When the voting started, Africans, East Indians, West Indians, Tamils and Muslims turned out in large numbers and voted for Rob Ford, a white, heterosexual, politically incorrect politician. Smitherman laugfhingly blamed his loss on homophobia initiated by Ford...
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier - Canada does not have a higher murder rate than the USA because (A) we don't have 330 million people up here, and (B) we have restrictions on the use and ownership of firearms. Not that the criminals care about the law anyway.
bgibb101 9 months ago
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paulfornasier 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Actually, comparison of violent crime statistics are done per capita, rendering point A irrelevant. For point B, you're look at a symptom for the cause. We have the kinds of laws we do regarding gun ownership because we have a radically different approach to guns than do Americans. For example, gun ownership has never been considered a legal right in Canada. It is a privilege granted by the Crown.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - I disagree. Far too many Canadians have been psychologically conditioned witrh anit-American crap, thanks to decades of social engineering in Treaudopia. There are many good reasons why we should be allowed the right to protect our lives & property with firearms, concidering the recent spate of high profile cases where armed, law abiding citizens were able to drive off violent criminals just with the sight of a gun. So the crown has given us gun privileges?
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 It's not a case of psychological conditioning to be anti-American. American gun laws have a very specific basis: it's considered a God-given right so that the populace may defend themselves from the government. Canadian gun laws also have a very specific basis: it is considered a privilege granted by the God-given Monarch for the defense of the Crown. It goes back to the Divine Right of Kings, not Trudeau. And we've ALWAYS had gun control. Look up the duties of the NWMP in the 19th c.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - It is WE the people who allowed the public police to carry guns. But WE the people did not allow the police to be armed just so they can turn around and take away our guns. Leftie politicians in Canada, from former mayor of Toronto David Miller, to Jack Layton & Michael ignatieff all wanted a national handgun ban. Why? because criminals and other parasitic gangsters engage in shotouts and other turf wars using illegal handguns. the logic of the lefties is illogical .......
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 "WE the people" is from the American Constitution. The basis of OUR Constitution, which you can easily Google, is the union of the colonies under the Crown, not "WE the people".
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - So what? So WE Canadians are not people? Remember who WE are. WE are the ones who put governments into power. The Prime Minister of this country is our servant, not our master, even though some of them act like they are God's gift to the nation (like Trudeau). So tell me why its so wrong for repsonsible, law abiding citizens to be proplerly armed to defend themselves, they families and their property against violent criminals?
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 If I wanted to dismiss you the way you try to dismiss me by constantly invoking Trudeau, I would say that you've been indoctrinated into distorted views by too much American TV. "WE the people" are not the legal or political basis of the Canadian government. This is not a Republic. This is a Constitutional Monarchy. The ultimately authority of our system is not the people, but the Crown. You are free to disagree with the Crown, but it is false to say that our system is like the US.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - I only bring up Trudeau as the architect of Canadas demise in many ways. So, we are a constutional monarchy. So what? Does this somehow prohibit us from having the right to self defence? I believe the 'Castle Doctrine' is what it is called. So please tell me why it won't work here. If ATC-3 permits can be given out to a select few, why not expand this right to others like myself who often works on criminal cases, involving interviewing parolled murderers?
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Actually yes, being a Monarchy DOES prohibit us from the right to self-defence. Our rights and freedoms are granted by the Crown through the Charter. You're welcome to disagree with the Crown and be as anti-monarchist as you want, but don't pretend that this all started with your favorite whipping boy. It's deeply engrained in our origins as a British colony.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - So what happened? After armed police units had assembled, received their briefing and then went through multiple layers of authorization, 12 people were dead and another 25 were wounded. By the time that the Civil Nuclear Constabulary (an armed police service) hasd been called in to help hunt down the gunman, he had already shot himself, leaving a 35 mile long streak of destruction behind him.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 In fact, here is the preamble to the Charter: In fact, here is what the Charter says: "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law"
That is radically not the same as "WE the people".
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Also, you should know this: the Prime Minister is not the Head of State.
Why is it wrong from "law-abiding citizens" to carry guns? Well, for me personally, I want to know who will protect me from "law-abiding citziens". "Law-abiding citizens" are assuming a level of trust they have not earned. ANYONE with the potential capacity to deliberately murder me is a threat. That is why I feel safer with gun restrictions.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - So you are assuming that not all law abiding citrizens are untrustworthy? Remember, there are interviews, police background checks, training, licencing and other things in place before you can own a gun. Then there is different licencing, depending on what sort of gun you want to own, then there is safe storage, yet another licence for transportation to a gun club, etc. Unlike crimials who ignore all the rules and carry illegal handguns anyway. Who do you trust?
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I assume ALL people are untrustworthy. But, this may sound weird, at least I can trust a criminal to be untrustworthy. I know that if a criminal targets me, it will be for a reason. Maybe I will give the criminal what they want and maybe I won't. At least I have that option.
I don't, however, know when a "law-abiding citizen" is going to lose their shit. And I have had, over the course of my life, enough death threats from "law-abiding citizens" not to trust any of them.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - Well, it depends on the citizen now doesn't it? there is a difference between idle threats from a pissed of neighbour, and a career criminal who destroys the lives of the innocent. I have so many death threats it isn't funny. I've had cameras installed around my house, yet as a law abiding citizen, a former soldier and a licenced Private Investigator, i am completely at the mercy of anyone who comes after me with a gun in public. ....
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 They weren't idle threats, but quite deliberate "if I had my way people like you would be drug out into the street and shot" sort of things.
However, for YOU in YOUR line of work I could see the value of owning firearms. I don't think that translates to the whole of society. Unless you have reasonable occupational certainty of running into a violent criminal or a bear, there is no actual reason for most people to need guns.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
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@CoryTheRaven - "They weren't idle threats, but quite deliberate "if I had my way people like you would be drug out into the street and shot" sort of things."
Well that sort of individual shouldn't have access to firearms, should they? And if they do possess guns, then that kind of threat against another citizen should be sufficient to have their firearms confiscated and their licence revoked.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 No, they're law-abiding citizens using their freedom of speech! You ain't takin' their guns away! Besides, I've never had my life threatened by someone who wasn't conservative, so they have the political support for keeping those guns.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - Every province and territory has its CFO (Chief Firearms Officer). They have the power to grant ATC-3 permits to anyone who they believe "qualifies." Only 13 such permits have been given out in Ontario, a province of 13 million people. How many criminals are driving around in Toronto right now armed with semi-autos and Uzis. More than 13 would you say? But those ATC-3's given out are for the preservation of life, so the Crown does NOT outright prohibit a licence to carry....
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Who authorizes the CFO? "WE the people"? No.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - No, CFOs are appointed by the respected provinicla goverment that IS elected by the people. it seems that they have agreed between them never to give out ATC-3 permits, except to those who have a bearing on their careers. However, this may now change once the Wild Rose Alliance gets in. They at least listen to concrned citizens like myself and have promised to loosen up the restrictions on ATC-3 permits so that those that those of us who reqiure them can have them
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Uh... an who authorizes the Provincial Legislature? The Lieutenant Governor. And who does the Lieutenant Governor represent? The Governor General. And who does the Governor General represent? The Crown. That is why bills have to get Royal Assent before they are made law. No offense, but you could use a civics class. This is not America.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - Tell you what. Let's say you stop into a small quiet restaurant for a quick bite. There is two other people sitting in the far corner, eating and talking quiety, You ignore them. Suddenly two men walk in, pull out handguns and blast the other two diner to death. After recovering from a momentary bout of shock, you get up and run outside, afraid for your life. In the parking lot, you are confronted by another man, who pulls out his own handgun. You beg for mercy......
bgibb101 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - But the gunman is unsympatheitc. he points his wepaon at you and pulls the trigger. You find yourself lying in an ever widening pool of your own blood on a cold, dark parking lot. The faint sound of police sirens in the distance is the last thing you hear, before you ask yourself "why me?" with your last breath. Because, Mr. law abiding citizen, you were a witness, you were in the way, and because you were DEFENCELESS. ....
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Very dramatic senario you have created. But like all emotional appeals, it assumes much. Firstly, I am an ethical pacifist. I don't believe, for various reasons, in the use of violence, so this whole thing is a non-issue for me personally. Secondly, you're assuming what my reactions would be in that situation, and you don't know. I'm not even entirely sure that I'D know until I'm there. I do know that "begging for mercy" isn't on the cards since I'm too much of a defiant ass.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - So your a pacifist?Do you think that the criminals really care about you or your views? What if you are confronted with some psycho, or just an evil criminal with a gun. What will you say? "You can't shoot me, I'm a pacifist and don't want to have anything to do with this situation!" Or me? Put that gun away at once! I am a licenced prvate Investigator and here is my badge." They would shoot either one of us in a heartbeat. i would rather be able to shoot back.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 "Do you think that the criminals really care about you or your views?" What a strange question to ask. I think you should probably do some research on nonviolent conflict resolution before asking strange rhetorical questions.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven -" Non violent conflict resolution?" Try that one on the Jamaican Yardies with their UZis in Toronto or the Vietnamese gangs in Calgary.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I'm pretty sure that if I did keep a 9mm in my backpack, the Yardies with their Uzis would be able to take me out anyways. This attempt to scare me into agreement ignores two things:
First, a willingness to use violence does not mean that violence is guaranteed to work in your favour. In fact, the very nature of violence means that it has to fail for someone. Someone has to lose for the other person's violence to succeed, and there is no guarantee that I'll be the victor.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - OK lets take this one at a time; "I'm pretty sure that if I did keep a 9mm in my backpack, the Yardies with their Uzis would be able to take me out anyways." At least you might take a couple of those parasites with you. Dead criminals give other cowards like them food for thought. Besides, why would you go near them? Stay out of trouble, mind your own business and only act if your life or the life of an innocent person near you is in danger. Simple rules work.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 No, dead criminals don't give other criminals food for thought. The criminals I have talked to by-in-large are prepared to die for their lifestyle. They try to hold it off as best they can, pretty much using the same logic you do. But reforming a life tends to come from existential crises of a different sort.
As for staying out of the way, your whole hypothetical situation in the diner was about how I could be a totally random victim. Your simple rules don't work in your own head.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - "First, a willingness to use violence does not mean that violence is guaranteed to work in your favour. In fact, the very nature of violence means that it has to fail for someone. Someone has to lose for the other person's violence to succeed, and there is no guarantee that I'll be the victor." It is the criminals who are willing to use violence, not me. And it will fail for the criminal once they get a taste of their own medicine. ...
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Not only are you willing to use violence, you've been trying to convince me all day that you NEED to. Remember: there is only Reason and Force, and they don't listen to Reason so neither will you. All you're trying to do now is displace responsibility. It's everyone else who's in charge of your choices and actions, not you. You have to shoot that gun. You can't help yourself.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - Wrong. I am not "willing" to use violence. I have often found that the best way to avoid trouble is simply to walk away or at least talk your way out of it. thi has worked for me 99% of the time. However, the remaining 1% has either involved having to physically defend myself against a violent individual who was either looking to imprwess his buddies or he was high on alcohol or nartcotics. So letr me try to claridfy my point further......
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 I think you need to find a better word, because you are by definition willing to use violence. If you were not willing to use violence, you wouldn't use it. But you are willing to use violence. You may choose not to use it gratuitously, or unprovoked, but you are willing to use it. As a pacifist, I'M the one who is not willing to use violence.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - OK, If I find myself in a situation where i cannot walk away or talk my way out of it, which may result in my aggressor pulling out a gun and shooting me, planting a baseball between my eyes or craving me up with a knife, then i have two choice; (A) use violence - .e., a measured response invlovling self-defence for the preservation of my life and safetry, or (B) do nothing and let him seriously injure or kill me, aking my wife a widow and my kids fatherless. However.....
bgibb101 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - Your response might be; Let the individual seriously injure you, therefore rendering you an invalid for the rest of your life (if you are lucky) or to kill you, whereupon you can go to your grave serene in the knowledge that the law is on your side. Good luck.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 The problem here is that you're so quick to skip over "walk or talk". Most people are though, for whatever reason. For me it simply boils down to the fact that I don't have the right to do violence to another person. Neither do you, nor anybody else. Most people are willing to take the perogative though, which is unfortunate.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven -"For me it simply boils down to the fact that I don't have the right to do violence to another person." Tell that to the muggers, rapists, murderers and pedophile offenders. THEY DO NO CARE WHAT YOU THINK. They are cowards who prey on the innocent. If every law abiding citizen was a pacifist, no matter how sincere, crime would be at epidemic proportions. I DO have the right to defend myself under the Criminal Code of Canada, something which you regard as "optional."....
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 So apparently two wrongs DO make a right. Something that perhaps you do not understand about a commitment to pacifism is that it involves an intense amount of personal responsibility. I cannot displace blame for my actions onto anybody else. I cannot say I would be a just and peaceful person if not for those other people. I cannot say THEY are the ones willing to use violence and I'm just reacting. No one can force me to do anything. The only person who governs my actions is myself.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - Pacifism never won wars. I wonder qwhere we would be today if our previous generations had such a laid back attitutde to Hitler and the Japanese Empire of WW2?
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 OF COURSE pacifism has never won wars. What a ridiculous thing to say. Pacifism is not ABOUT winning wars! Wars are arbitrary conflicts between governments who want each others' territory and resources. OF COURSE pacifism is an ineffective tactic for waging war.
Of course, if you want to ever read up on the humanitarian successes of nonviolence during WWII and India and the USA, you're more than welcome to. Pacifists have a different set of priorities.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@bgibb101 The flipside about taking responsibility for myself is that I cannot control the outcomes and consequences of my interactions with others. It's recognizing what I've been saying to you all along here: there are no guarantees about ANYTHING, whether you act violently or nonviolently. No one can force me to do anything and I cannot rely on forcing anybody to do anything either. I have to give up any notion that I can exert control over others, both morally and as a matter of fact.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@bgibb101 The suprising outcome is that one gets to live without fear. I know it doesn't make sense to you, because it seems to me that your line of work has distorted your perception of humanity to the point that fear and force are the only ways you seem capable of interacting with others. I've given up on force and that has made me give up on fear. I am realistic about the possible threats to me, but I've made peace with that. But it's also given me a lot of freedom. Moreso than a gun would.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - " it seems to me that your line of work has distorted your perception of humanity to the point that fear and force are the only ways you seem capable of interacting with others" And you ignored or didn't pay attention to one of my last posts. fear has nothing to do with it - if I can talk my way out of a situation and/or simply walk away, I will do so, and it has worked for me 99% of the time. I take each day as it comes and treat people with respect, hoever......
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Fear has everything to do with it, doesn't it? Everything you have said to me in our whole discussion points to a fear of victimization and uncertainty. It seems to be your whole rationalization for wanting the certainty of bearing arms. It's way beyond a rational understanding of your occupation's hazards and affects your whole outlook on humanity. You even went so far as to say that the only ways to deal with people were Reason (aka: Persuasion) and Force. That is a total distortion.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - NO it does not. "Fear" is not in my vocabulary. "Even the odds against the bad guys," is. just listen to the number of 911 calls on Youtube, made by terrified women as stalkers and rapists broke into their homes. Locked windows and doors did not stop them, and even dogs did not stop them. The police were too far away to get there in time. All of those women are alive today because they had access to a gun and wwere able to put a bullet in their attackers. Howvere....
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 You're starting to repeat talking points I already gave my answer to. Nor have you really made a convincing rebuttal to being motivated by fear when all evidence points to the contrary.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@bgibb101 And don't even get me started on what, actually, did start this whole discussion: fear of immigrants. Fear of how they're going to change our society, fear of the crime they supposedly bring, fear of how they'll upset the balance of power and the complexion of the nation...
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - So you are happy for Canada to become a Third World country? As I stated earlier, Goerge Smitherman was defeated in the Toronto Mayoral elections because large numbers of non-white immigrants voted against him. They were quite open and honest about the fact that they do not want a homosexual mayor. Now, just multiply those votes in 30 years and see what will happen to your "open, tolerant society' once white Canadians become the minority in their own country.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Why yes, I am happy to see Canada become a 3rd World country. Of course I am. How could it be any different? Why wouldn't I be? You're absolutely right! Bring on the poverty and slums!
This is getting ridiculous. You're just repeating tired cliches now. Given that you support parties who are opposed to gay rights, this whole line from your mouth is disingenuous. Gay rights issues do concern me - more than they concern you apparently - and I'm prepared to continue that struggle.
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - Would you prefer that a woman is raped and strangled, or that she was able to stop her attacker? Is a dead female rape victim in Canada morally superior to a would-be-female victim in the USA that was able to put a bullet in her attacker? If a woman in Niagra Falls USA uses pepper spray to fend of an attacker she is praised. If a woman in Niagra Falls, Canada uses pepper spray to fend of an attacker she is charged. Sheer bloody madness.
bgibb101 9 months ago
@bgibb101 Why yes, OF COURSE I do prefer that the woman get raped and strangled. I prefer that ALL women get raped and strangled! And I prefer they get raped and strangled by men of darker skin tones than themselves, so that they can populate Canada with dark-skinned rape babies! This is totally an effective argument against nonviolence and immigration! I am utterly convinced by your histrionic outbursts!
CoryTheRaven 9 months ago
@CoryTheRaven - "Why yes, OF COURSE I do prefer that the woman get raped and strangled. I prefer that ALL women get raped and strangled!"
Apart from the sarcasm that is dripping from that statement, why ARE women here prohibited from carrying pepper spray? As for 'dark skinned rapists, they are flling up the prisons in Europe quite well. Not something we want to see