Will this work on the other side of a roof? On the inside trying to break out? I bought an axe for the purpose of breaking out of the attic(sp?) if my house ever flooded and I was trapped.
@LooseLatitude well I believe so, but that would be called a "forcible exit" lol but its a good thing to know how to get out, because as a fireman you learn how to make "forcible entry" but what if you get trapped? THEN you will have wanted to know how to forcibly exit yourself lol
@zitroocsab91 And how many roofs on *new* houses are made with 3 layers of plywood? This technique works great on *some* roofs -- you might as well say it's a horrible technique because it won't work on steel roofs, or asphalt built-up roofs.
The problem with roofs on new type V construction is that it's really, really weak: Using an axe "the right way" will cause the axe to bury itself up to its neck, making the axe harder to pull out.
@mllawso1 On older roofs you should use an axe the "right way". The stronger materials will limit how far the axe buries itself, and you'll need the extra penetration to break through.
@zitroocsab91 The whole point of this video is to give you some more knowledge to put back in your "tool box" Its not like once you try this way thats it, there is no other way. It takes a fraction of a second to flip the axe around and use the chopping edge if you need to. or maybe you start with the chopping edge and see its not very thick, you can switch over to the blunt end. Personally i prefer using a saw but thats not always the case so its a good thing to practice if you get the chance.
@Skankpronger Then what is your point? First off, you're not going to find 1/4" plywood on a roof: that's way too thin for any building code, and too weak for common sense. Secondly, while a power saw is faster when venting a roof, in the right hands an axe is pretty quick too, especially when it comes to OSB or plywood.
@mllawso1 you think i dont know that. in fact sum roofs you might find 3/4" or thicker . have fun "punching through that with your little roof hammer.
@CCFD284 In a perfect world, yes thats the way to go, but saws dont always start. Our maintenance guy is lazy and he doesnt always go over the saws and check that they are in working order and every now and then we pull them off the truck and in the time it takes to figure out the saw doesnt work, and go grab another or fiddle f**k with it to get it running, you can have a guy grab an axe climb up the ladder and start on a hole. Saws wont always start but an axe will.
As for the comment from Sarmedic8401. You really need to catch back up with the times and take look at all the niosh reports on Horizontal ventilation and PPV. Vertical ventilation is for more than just attic fires. As everyone knows you remove the Sheetrock below, after cutting the roof vent. Allowing all the heat and gas to take their normal path. Don't get me wrong horizontal vent has its place but it's way over used and used in a unsafe manner most of the time.
Of course vertical ventilation on a peaked roof is generally ineffective unless there are a very definite set of circumstances such as working fire in the attic. Stick to horizontal ventilation 90% of the time.
@sarmedic8401 90% of the time? With verticle venting you can get right above the fire and move it in the direction it wants to go, up, not sideways. When you push it sideways it better be next to an outside wall or else your gonna be burning a lot more then necessary, if you dont get it out fast you still have a lot of heat lifting up to the peak. Just keep your mind open to both because they both have their spot, but when it comes to fire you will more often be effective with verticle venting.
Maybe it's faster if you don't know how to free the axe blade after a cut. He swings twice as much and twice as hard using the back, and it may be faster on some roofs but on the majority of roofs using the back would get you nowhere.
What a great idea. I wish I had thought of that. Saws are great, but every good firefighter knows how to do the jobs with hand tools as well. An axe never runs out of gas.
no one is saying not to use a saw, but if it wont start or the chain breaks your not going to waste time in climbing down getting another saw starting it bring it back up and finishing the job by the time you get back up the job could of been done by switching over and doing it the ole fashioned way.
You have to use an 8 lb flat head axe to do this easily, anything less is waist of energy. Its quite fast once you get the hang of and practice it. When you smoke out the k12 or chainsaw what do you do for back up? We were taught this in our 240 class by instructors who had their saws die from the smoke and had to get the roof open.
I've been in the service as a volley for nine years...and this method is new too me...and i am totally seeing its benefits. I agree...while most major fire departments have the luxury of cutters edge and K-12's on the rig...its important to know how to do this technique "old school" with an axe.
i was always told to use a dull axe for structure fires to reduce the chance of your axe to wedge into whatever your chopping at, but you always got the possibility of it bouncing back and hitting yourself
Firemanmfd229, Thanks for saying it how it is! I agree with you and westcoast, this is a very good technique in the right situation. We need all the tools we can have in our tool bag for what ever situation faces us. Be safe and stay low.
This technique does work well. Another point to bring up is that using the blunt side of the axe is a good alternative on roofs with only one or two layers of comp. On the thicker layered roofs with 50 years of composition tile piled up, it may be too difficult to breach the roof covering in a timely manner.
lets not knock these guys for posting an idea that you may be able to use one day, even if you disagree with it. i'm sure that every department could knock yours for something that one of the guys with the gold badges dictates as your training, or operating policy. point is... we all operate differently and we should try to learn from each other rather than riping each other. were all on the same team when shit hits the fan. be safe!!
I think that as a truck company, your size up of the scene is essential to the safety of your crew and the methods you will use to accomplish your ventillation goals. in a nutshell, this is a demo on another method that you can use if the proper situation presents itself. we all know that no fire is the same, and different situations require us to adapt and overcome. we also know that every dept has different sop's and policies dictating how they operate on the scene. (part 2)
everyone seems to have a lot of imput on this demo. some constructive, and some pure nonsense. this is a demo on another method of using an axe. i agree that a flathead is the wrong tool to bring to a roof. i think that the conditions and roof type have to be 100% in your favor to actually do this on a scene of a working structure fire. in older communities, this method will not work very well. however, in new construction communities, it will work great. (part 1)
Well said. Ive built a simulation roof in my backyard and tired several different ways to open it up with an axe. Anyone can use a saw and cut a hole...but you need to be able to use an axe just as well. That one time you need the saw..ohh look it doesnt work (hasnt happened yet, but who's to say it wont?) Stay safe out there brother
The blade side works great if you know the proper way to swing an axe...this guy does not so that is why the flat side of his axe is working better. Good ventilation practices are an art whether with saws or your axe. If you get up on a good roof of thicker plywood with multiple layers of roofing material on top, you will get NOTHING done using this method.
very true. i guarantee that you will RARELY find roofs that give way that easy to this method. plus he is using the axe wrong....from experience, i wouldnt recommend this...
A saw can throw a chain, jam up, run out of fuel or not start, a axe always starts:-) You have to be prepared for anything. Train as if you life depends on it... because it does.
You do realize it only took 3 wacks with the blade of the ax, and took almost 12 for the back side. The sledge end comes in handy when between studs, but that's it. Use the blade the right way and you'll be through 3 feet or roof in no time.
I learned this technique from Lt. Ciampo at a school in Charlotte NC. It works on all types of rooves. It was a little hard on a true plywood roof...but can be accomplished. An 8lb axe is a must however. Its always nice to have a back up for that saw.
2 guys on axes and 2 NY roof hooks can tear a roof apart.
First of all, that roof is pretty thin. In my city, its not uncommon to see roofs with 5 or even six layers of shingles. Second, a pickhead axe, not a flathead should be taken to the roof. Also, notice how he is standing over his cut, if you have smoke and fire coming out he will have a hard time cutting a nice straight line. If you initially use the pickhead to make a hole. You then use the blade to simply make the hole wider.
1. when he does use the blade he is cutting wrong... you should cut with the top third of the blade and at a shallower angle so it does not get stuck.
2. the poll end will only work on roofs with OSB/plywood decking with only a couple layers of comp... it will not make a good hole on a conventional roof and will bounce up and laugh at you on a roof with multiple layers of comp... but like i said, a good method for a limited amount of roofs
I totally agree. I am at the station watching this with my capt. and I had just pointed out those same things! This guy doesn't know how to use an axe so he compensates by bringing the wrong axe to the roof (flat not pick) and using brute force. Good luck, pal.
Hi I have changed my mind the U.S fire-fighters are brave and come up with good ideas , i take back everything i say, God Bless America and my all the fireman go to every job with God looking after them, i take back everything, we are all fireman together , to argue or boast is stupid , we all face horror situations everyday,please all take care and lets stick together,
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kiann23 bring it! pussy! i have been in more house fires and building fires than you have pussy!! we here in the uk dont do the job for the glory we do it to help people, man you are a d.i.c.k. We here in the Aussie fire service not uk as you say do it the right way , not the wrong way as all your YANK friends do
hey marc thanks for the video. I found it interesting and had to try it out. Works very well, I and others were amazed, thanks. I am a fire instructor and I will show this method as well when I teach.
Airbender you are a door handle too., and firemanmfd229, concentrate on living and safety rather tthan getting hero status, AND FOR YOUR NEXT CLIP ITS "HOW TO USE AN AXE.....THE RIGHT WAY" now thats original
Saying "10 out of 10 roofs collapse" shows your lack of experience, closed-mindedness and ignorance. Demanding that someone bow and call you "sir" shows how bloated your ego is. Have you ever heard, "Respect the rank, NOT the person?" You have not earned anyone's respect here. Just use the axe the "wrong" already! YOU need to learn this, because YOU will most likely cut your foot off trying to use it the "right" way! And calling me and firemanmfd229 "the handle on a door" is...priceless.
mr firemanmfd229 ...quite frankly you are the handle on a door ....... but the non polite version which begins with K.. and ends in B and has the letters O and N in it but the other way round , work that out Mr we have 5000 fire alerts a year man, !!
Ummm.... yeah... Clearly your ignorance shows your inexperience. Let me guess.. all of those fire alerts are working fires too. You clearly don't know how to pick your battles. When proven wrong on a subject, you simply throw irrelevant words and topics out there, with hopes other people will take your side. That is a sign of immaturity. I can only hope for your crew's sake, that your immaturity is not shown on the fireground the way it is on this posting thread.
And yes.... I made a mistake in my last post: "Everyone here knows that the blunt end of a flat head axe was not designed for designed for roof ventillation." I can admit when I am wrong.
And for the rest of the community watching this video. IT IS INFORMATIVE!!!! This is simply another, EFFICIENT, way of opening a roof. Everyone here knows that the blunt end of a flat head axe was not designed for designed for roof ventillation. BUT... somebody, probably one that uses his/her brain and thinks outside the box, came up with this idea. And it has been around for a long time. These guys didn't make it up, they are just showing the effectiveness of the technique.
You guys Crack me up. I love it. And yes I learned this method from our brother from the FDNY in 2001 we I tool a class from them and all I am doing is trying to share with ALL of you who any to be better at what it is we do. Just another idea that's all. It doesn't say it is THE ONLY ,THE BEST just another way to solve a problem. Like what happens if you saw breaks down on you and the guys forget a pick head axes? Try this Offer another idea, post it here in video form so we can learn from it
this video is false u r using the wrng type of axe. flat head axes have a blunt blade they are mainly for forcible entry not roof ventilation. u shld b using a pickhead axe they are sharper.
oh and by the way nice use of the radio letting it swing around and what about working at height gear to stop you falling if you insist on getting on the roof!! oh how silly of me thats being safe and taking precautions you dont do that so forget i even said it, how silly i am
By the way, we speak in full and complete sentences here. Here is your quote: "oh and by the way nice use of the radio letting it swing around and what about working at height gear to stop you falling if you insist on getting on the roof!!" What does that even mean? Learn to type.
Dear Mr SUPER DOOPER MAN OF THE HOUR OUR HERO firemanmfd229, you are quite clearly a gloryfied voulunteer it all comes clear now ,you are a wanna be talking trash its all clear now, its true though americans budget for funreals we budget to stop them !! so every time i win the argument, and get off the roof, if you want to vent open a window! door ! or even the wall, get off the roof !! IDIOT stop be little me i am a senior rank!!
Um.. yeah.. I am a full time fireman from Illinois MABAS Division XX. And by the way.. that is the busiest division for fire and call volume, outside of the City of Chicago, in the state. My town is 2.2 sq miles and we run about 5000 calls a year... Averaging 65 working structure fires (that would be houses and commercial). So go and talk you shit to someone that has 0 experience in the fire service. When you begin to know what you are talking about, you can reply. Till then, shut up,SIR!
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Dear Mr Firemanmfd229. you are a typical boff officer wanna be, you clearly got no fire ground experiance and like the A* hole of senior ranks, stop sucking up to everyone on here and post your own thoughts and not the ops orders form your bridgade
CharlyLouise, you scare me...you don't have any respect for your commanding officers? My officers, chiefs and rated members have a LOT of experience, so I sure as hell listen to what they have to say! If that's sucking up, then I'm a suck up! A183999 and dancedancebeccac, you've just got it all wrong.
Once again, CharlyLouise, the ignorance of your comment shines through. I don't know what department you work on. I am also not going to knock your whole department for your lack of proper training. Do you even know what truck work is? Have you ever seen an axe? Or is it that you are not even a fireman? Either way, if you want to talk tactics and strategy with someone, you should probably know what you are talking about before starting an argument.
This is really interesting. I am teaching a class on ventilation, and will show this! Thaks!! Also to defed, I am a young firefighter... There is a difference in being young and ignorant. Some of the comments below scare me, I hope that some of these people recieve some sort of training soon!!
Your comments give a feeling that you are very interested in learning even as you teach. Young and ignorant are very different your right! You seem to have the right attitude to teach because you are open. Stay that way and SHARE what you learn always with your brothers.. Remember this technique is for flat roof commercial. Works best on plywood roof deck with rolled roofing material. It can be used for forcing window covered by plywood also... good luck.
Should we not attempt to make a rescue because it is too hot in the building? Quit being pussies and listen to what other departments have to offer. It may actually help you out one day. The End
Anyone ever been in heavy smoke and can't start their saw... I have.. then all you have is an axe. Anyone ever saved a building from flashing over on a crew by vertical ventilation.. I have. The removal of that heat is essential to the safety of the interior crew. All of this pussy crap of it being dangerous to be on a roof is straight BS. Last I checked, we are Fireman and as one, my JOB is dangerous. Should we not go interior anymore because we might get burned? (part 2)
Ok... by the sounds of all of the negative comments there are not many truckies in this list. First off, to Charlylouise... 10 of 10 roofs don't collapse. That comment was ridiculous. Now.. Speed in ventilation is key to the crews on the interior attack. This is just another technique to use if you don't have a saw. (part 1)
I am not sure what you are getting at FirefighterTHVFD. I was referencing this comment in a past post by CharlyLouise:" we spend money on preventing deaths rather than using an axe backwards on a roof that will 10 times in 10 collapse!! " I think you misinterpreted either what I said, or what CharlyLouise said. If not, please clarify, because I don't understand your comment to me.
I misinterpreted your comment about roof collapse. I thought you were saying 10 out of 10 roofs wouldn't collapse. My apologies if that isn't what you meant.
That is what he is saying. 10 out of 10 roofs do NOT collapse. CharlyLouise saying that "10 out of 10 roofs collapse" is completely false. I have yet to try this method, but will the next time I get a chance. We carry a single bit axe on the truck. It has a perfect mirror finish because we basically never use it! I would love to scratch that thing up get it all covered with tar, and have to explain myself to my AO! This is just another great idea we can tuck away to use at some point.
umm i dont know who trained you but this is def not what we do. we are real firefighters and thats stupid to endanger your "family" like that. u need to go back to training and the guy who signed your card shot be consuled. TIME,SKILL,AND ACCURACY IS KEY IN VENTILATION. we train to do this you are rediculus bud.
yo AIR BENDER, A183999 is a quality firefighter and knows what he is talking about, we dont set aside a budget in our service for fire fighter funerals where as you lot do, how backward is that??? we spend money on preventing deaths rather than using an axe backwards on a roof that will 10 times in 10 collapse!! If you have to go in use BA you know that thing you lot hang round your neck , it stops you brreathing smoke in if you actually wear it, yeah , thats a strange thing to you wear it!!DER!
Thats a great technique i responded to a structure fire a few days ago and was running hose, so must of the venting i witnessed was smashing out windows or with a chainsaw, but if i ever have to vent, I wont forget this
Please...you are obviously not a firefighter, or at least not one on a department that does roof ventilation. You are ignorant and understand nothing about how the roof companies work in conjunction with fire attack.
In a nutshell, and done safely, a hole in the roof over the fire is going to help release hot air/gases/by-products/smoke which can help prevent the horizontal spread of fire, and reduce the chance of a flashover, which can help fire attack from getting their butts kicked inside. It will also help prevent melted helmets, facepieces, SCBA's, and burned turnouts. Hole in the roof...good thing!
But the big thing is, working in conjunction with the fire attack. if you vent before the pipe is ready then it can turn into a very bad thing. Watched a guy cut the hole to soon and about lost the building.
NO building anywhere is worth committing any crew to stand on the roof make stupid holes.
there are other ways and means of attacking a house fire withoutthis method.
Even a steel structure is not safe after 10 mins of heat let alone something the three piggies built.
I am in the building industry so my knowledge of roof construction and materials alows me to make assesments as to where i committ any crew.there is equipment to attack fire from above.
Again...you are NOT a firefighter. We don't cut holes in roofs just for the hell of it. There are many factors and conditions that go into making the decision to go into such an operation. TIME is one of them. Any firefighter would know that metal fails without warning. A wooden structure withstands heat and flame better than a metal one. Containing a fire to one room through a coordinated effort by roof ventilation/fire attack is a damn good reason in my book. WE TRAIN TO DO THIS.
I don't understand your hostile comments. Do you personally know somebody that has fallen through a roof at a fire? A guy that digs a ditch can say he is in the "building industry". I don't think you know roof construction as well as you THINK you do. I am in the FIRE industry so my knowledge of roof construction and materials allows me to make assessments as to where I commit myself and other firefighters.
Ok I'll bite how about rescuing the trapped victims inside. I would only hope you wouldn't leave them in there. And if you do go get them I would only hope you use the proven method of fire attack with vertical ventilation at them same time. What do I know I have never been to a fire though....
We absolutely go in to rescue trapped people or missing/down/trapped/ firefighters. This is just one more reason to cut a hole in the roof. Civilians aren't on breathers like we are. Gotta get rid of the heat and smoke.
I was actually replying to A183999 not you. Sorry I got that you understand why we do what do. I was just hoping this other person would go in and get someone or if his fellow FF were inside he would get on the roof and get the heat off those guys... Let's hope and all his comments are not so true. The younger generation a firefighters makes me nervous... If I get trapped I hope they come get me...
My favorite tool is an eight pound maul. It has the weight of a small sledge and the blunt end, but still has a cutting edge. They're also only 20-25 dollars.
I'll have to test this one out in the summer when it gets real hot.
DavidTheDefender 14 hours ago
saw is better to use this one easy nd quck..lol
jazon2002 5 months ago
Feel sorry for the blokes whos roof that is
MrMapex2010 6 months ago
Is that the Fire Axe made by Firefighters in USA? If so how do you like it? What handle and size is that?
rcm102186 7 months ago
noted, good to know if situation ever arises. makes sense, its like a sledge hammer rather than slicing. but careful not to slice your face.
sirMAXX77 7 months ago
his axe was wwwway too sharp..that's why it's not cutting right.
SantoCachon61 11 months ago
true, using the blunt side does work a lot more efficiently
shawnster26 11 months ago
Will this work on the other side of a roof? On the inside trying to break out? I bought an axe for the purpose of breaking out of the attic(sp?) if my house ever flooded and I was trapped.
LooseLatitude 1 year ago
@LooseLatitude well I believe so, but that would be called a "forcible exit" lol but its a good thing to know how to get out, because as a fireman you learn how to make "forcible entry" but what if you get trapped? THEN you will have wanted to know how to forcibly exit yourself lol
Cowboy3590 1 year ago
Lol I see hack roofer install vents the same way
roofrepairspecial 1 year ago
That was a very good demonstration but it was my roof and it now leaks like a sieve many thanks
bmwnasher 1 year ago 6
ventilation.. what is that? we have a ten man crew W/A 30 man vol force and all i have ever seen is pitch black
mhansford99 1 year ago
i vented a roof like that the other day it works great!!!! so much easier
vbchad91 1 year ago
I've been a firefighter since the 80's and that's how we did it back then and that's how we do it now.
lom3ardo 1 year ago
huh, never thought of that before. thanks!
RavenousMedicine 1 year ago
try that through 3 layers of comp or plywood this is silly.
zitroocsab91 1 year ago
@zitroocsab91 And how many roofs on *new* houses are made with 3 layers of plywood? This technique works great on *some* roofs -- you might as well say it's a horrible technique because it won't work on steel roofs, or asphalt built-up roofs.
The problem with roofs on new type V construction is that it's really, really weak: Using an axe "the right way" will cause the axe to bury itself up to its neck, making the axe harder to pull out.
mllawso1 1 year ago
@mllawso1 On older roofs you should use an axe the "right way". The stronger materials will limit how far the axe buries itself, and you'll need the extra penetration to break through.
mllawso1 1 year ago
@zitroocsab91 The whole point of this video is to give you some more knowledge to put back in your "tool box" Its not like once you try this way thats it, there is no other way. It takes a fraction of a second to flip the axe around and use the chopping edge if you need to. or maybe you start with the chopping edge and see its not very thick, you can switch over to the blunt end. Personally i prefer using a saw but thats not always the case so its a good thing to practice if you get the chance.
sfdff39 1 year ago
From the looks of the video it also makes a larger cut also. Interesting
cutiger3115 1 year ago
i dont get it
xNormaRawrx 1 year ago
that roof must be made of 1/4" plywood . you wont go thru a REAL roof like that with ease you guys better stick to your power saws to vent
Skankpronger 1 year ago
@Skankpronger Spoken by somebody that obviously knows nothing about the subject.
masonc07 1 year ago
@Skankpronger ... I could punch holes through 1/4" plywood with a roofing hammer. You need to hit the gym.
mllawso1 1 year ago
@mllawso1 I can punch holes thru 1/2" plywood with ease. thats not the point . pay attention
Skankpronger 1 year ago
@Skankpronger Then what is your point? First off, you're not going to find 1/4" plywood on a roof: that's way too thin for any building code, and too weak for common sense. Secondly, while a power saw is faster when venting a roof, in the right hands an axe is pretty quick too, especially when it comes to OSB or plywood.
mllawso1 1 year ago
@mllawso1 you think i dont know that. in fact sum roofs you might find 3/4" or thicker . have fun "punching through that with your little roof hammer.
Skankpronger 1 year ago
i wonder how they found that out lol
lasergeak 1 year ago
use an axe for splitting logs, and watch what happens.
barknspyder 2 years ago
i hate when the radio mic falls off and slings around. It always happens when your in the middle of something...
fyrefyter26 2 years ago
Why waste time with a axe, just use a k12 or a chainsaw to cut the ventilation opening.
CCFD284 2 years ago
desperate times, call for desperate measures
backdraftmagnet 2 years ago
@CCFD284 In a perfect world, yes thats the way to go, but saws dont always start. Our maintenance guy is lazy and he doesnt always go over the saws and check that they are in working order and every now and then we pull them off the truck and in the time it takes to figure out the saw doesnt work, and go grab another or fiddle f**k with it to get it running, you can have a guy grab an axe climb up the ladder and start on a hole. Saws wont always start but an axe will.
sfdff39 1 year ago
As for the comment from Sarmedic8401. You really need to catch back up with the times and take look at all the niosh reports on Horizontal ventilation and PPV. Vertical ventilation is for more than just attic fires. As everyone knows you remove the Sheetrock below, after cutting the roof vent. Allowing all the heat and gas to take their normal path. Don't get me wrong horizontal vent has its place but it's way over used and used in a unsafe manner most of the time.
Smokeaterict 2 years ago
wow he makes some straight lines.....
muscabeats 2 years ago 12
Of course vertical ventilation on a peaked roof is generally ineffective unless there are a very definite set of circumstances such as working fire in the attic. Stick to horizontal ventilation 90% of the time.
sarmedic8401 2 years ago
@sarmedic8401 90% of the time? With verticle venting you can get right above the fire and move it in the direction it wants to go, up, not sideways. When you push it sideways it better be next to an outside wall or else your gonna be burning a lot more then necessary, if you dont get it out fast you still have a lot of heat lifting up to the peak. Just keep your mind open to both because they both have their spot, but when it comes to fire you will more often be effective with verticle venting.
sfdff39 1 year ago
Maybe it's faster if you don't know how to free the axe blade after a cut. He swings twice as much and twice as hard using the back, and it may be faster on some roofs but on the majority of roofs using the back would get you nowhere.
DTMRM8 2 years ago 2
nice
BomberoSeptima 2 years ago
I wonder how a pickhead axe would do in the same situation.
voltagedrop 2 years ago
joke?
whenmachinesfail 2 years ago 2
What a great idea. I wish I had thought of that. Saws are great, but every good firefighter knows how to do the jobs with hand tools as well. An axe never runs out of gas.
evilroboknee 2 years ago
ruined a perfectly good roof
gentlemandn 2 years ago
thanks for this video, it will help me for training
blueriver2468 2 years ago
HA! Cool xD
SecronGlitch 2 years ago
or you can get a chainsaw that will be faster lol
GoLAcityFD 2 years ago
no one is saying not to use a saw, but if it wont start or the chain breaks your not going to waste time in climbing down getting another saw starting it bring it back up and finishing the job by the time you get back up the job could of been done by switching over and doing it the ole fashioned way.
MooseTrooper30 2 years ago
someone should be behind him for suport just in case he loses his balance
manny05162008 2 years ago
its a axe and a hammer
crazyAlexander23 2 years ago
sweet i learn something new everyday.
AirwarriorX2 2 years ago
firefighters FTW. (my dad)
lostMachinima 2 years ago
maybe a k-12, echo, or cutters edge would be quicker?
that does make sense to try it that way but majority of the time we gonna have a pick-axe and not a flathead with us lol
CFCdirty12dozen 2 years ago
Hehehehe! Be safe fellas!
turbodog411 2 years ago
How bout a jigsaw or some hedge trimmers?
turbodog411 2 years ago
Jig saw and hedge trimmers! That some funny stuff. How about a belt sander?
JCEMT23 2 years ago 3
that just made my day lol thanks
sledneckzl600 2 years ago
use a pickaxe. or chainsaw.
iip47c 2 years ago
thats useful and safer i think:-p
martinakizZz 2 years ago
haha he can sit up there all day while i get the cutters edge, pull the cord do a few cuts and its a done deal
codyfdfirefighter181 2 years ago
ha until its -30 degrees outside and everythings froze solid and your only option is the old fashion way ha
jmaxwell30 2 years ago
You have to use an 8 lb flat head axe to do this easily, anything less is waist of energy. Its quite fast once you get the hang of and practice it. When you smoke out the k12 or chainsaw what do you do for back up? We were taught this in our 240 class by instructors who had their saws die from the smoke and had to get the roof open.
pyroshow 2 years ago
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as being a fireman i woud see this half usefull and have uselelass i mean my truck company only uses k 12s or chainsaws
rockinfireman95 2 years ago
I've been in the service as a volley for nine years...and this method is new too me...and i am totally seeing its benefits. I agree...while most major fire departments have the luxury of cutters edge and K-12's on the rig...its important to know how to do this technique "old school" with an axe.
squiddy820 2 years ago
i was always told to use a dull axe for structure fires to reduce the chance of your axe to wedge into whatever your chopping at, but you always got the possibility of it bouncing back and hitting yourself
knottfire 2 years ago
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Firemanmfd229, Thanks for saying it how it is! I agree with you and westcoast, this is a very good technique in the right situation. We need all the tools we can have in our tool bag for what ever situation faces us. Be safe and stay low.
firestation36 2 years ago
Comment removed
firestation36 2 years ago
This technique does work well. Another point to bring up is that using the blunt side of the axe is a good alternative on roofs with only one or two layers of comp. On the thicker layered roofs with 50 years of composition tile piled up, it may be too difficult to breach the roof covering in a timely manner.
WestCoast911Store 2 years ago
lets not knock these guys for posting an idea that you may be able to use one day, even if you disagree with it. i'm sure that every department could knock yours for something that one of the guys with the gold badges dictates as your training, or operating policy. point is... we all operate differently and we should try to learn from each other rather than riping each other. were all on the same team when shit hits the fan. be safe!!
firemanmfd229 2 years ago
I think that as a truck company, your size up of the scene is essential to the safety of your crew and the methods you will use to accomplish your ventillation goals. in a nutshell, this is a demo on another method that you can use if the proper situation presents itself. we all know that no fire is the same, and different situations require us to adapt and overcome. we also know that every dept has different sop's and policies dictating how they operate on the scene. (part 2)
firemanmfd229 2 years ago
everyone seems to have a lot of imput on this demo. some constructive, and some pure nonsense. this is a demo on another method of using an axe. i agree that a flathead is the wrong tool to bring to a roof. i think that the conditions and roof type have to be 100% in your favor to actually do this on a scene of a working structure fire. in older communities, this method will not work very well. however, in new construction communities, it will work great. (part 1)
firemanmfd229 2 years ago
Well said. Ive built a simulation roof in my backyard and tired several different ways to open it up with an axe. Anyone can use a saw and cut a hole...but you need to be able to use an axe just as well. That one time you need the saw..ohh look it doesnt work (hasnt happened yet, but who's to say it wont?) Stay safe out there brother
FirefighterJay89 2 years ago
it all depends on the type of roof and the fireman useing the axe
8races 3 years ago
this is terrible use of an axe !!
CharlyLouise 3 years ago
agreed.....
kornklone 3 years ago
The blade side works great if you know the proper way to swing an axe...this guy does not so that is why the flat side of his axe is working better. Good ventilation practices are an art whether with saws or your axe. If you get up on a good roof of thicker plywood with multiple layers of roofing material on top, you will get NOTHING done using this method.
ibond8 3 years ago
very true. i guarantee that you will RARELY find roofs that give way that easy to this method. plus he is using the axe wrong....from experience, i wouldnt recommend this...
kornklone 3 years ago
Great tips.
Untense 3 years ago
that poor roof
GUILDGOB 3 years ago
Great demonstration.
landgrader6 3 years ago
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Y dont you just use the saw???? its alot faster and you use ahole lot less energy!!!think about it....use your head
FFHowell 3 years ago
A saw can throw a chain, jam up, run out of fuel or not start, a axe always starts:-) You have to be prepared for anything. Train as if you life depends on it... because it does.
dcpk82 3 years ago 31
Try using it when a Zombie attack happens then you be in a heap a' trouble!
Metroidprime13 3 years ago
Blunt trauma is no good against zombies, then?
SCE2AUX 3 years ago
Blunt trauma works fine against zombies, as long as you destroy the brain.
PompousFlea 3 years ago 2
looks like this works great on cheap 1/4" plywood training mock ups, how well does this work on 3/4" plywood?
simp0lman 3 years ago
I dont know!
As you hit, the other side of the Axe hits you in the back of the head... "VERY" smart!
Metroidprime13 3 years ago
You do realize it only took 3 wacks with the blade of the ax, and took almost 12 for the back side. The sledge end comes in handy when between studs, but that's it. Use the blade the right way and you'll be through 3 feet or roof in no time.
ncihcfkd 3 years ago
Using the blade means more energy longer time and you have to sharpen the bastard use the back ;)
pezzza16 3 years ago
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What the hell are you doing sharpening an axe for firefighting???? They are for busting stuff up - saws are for cutting.
smokediver68 3 years ago
I learned this technique from Lt. Ciampo at a school in Charlotte NC. It works on all types of rooves. It was a little hard on a true plywood roof...but can be accomplished. An 8lb axe is a must however. Its always nice to have a back up for that saw.
2 guys on axes and 2 NY roof hooks can tear a roof apart.
hdf561 3 years ago
I say just bring up the saw.
firemedic1033 3 years ago
just bought an axe yesterday... One word: awesome!
deadWu 3 years ago
First of all, that roof is pretty thin. In my city, its not uncommon to see roofs with 5 or even six layers of shingles. Second, a pickhead axe, not a flathead should be taken to the roof. Also, notice how he is standing over his cut, if you have smoke and fire coming out he will have a hard time cutting a nice straight line. If you initially use the pickhead to make a hole. You then use the blade to simply make the hole wider.
fire178man 3 years ago
We also use a slegde.....works really well...
Good post.....
GardoOFD1632 3 years ago
Good video. Thanks for posting this MarcLucero
fireslash27 3 years ago
1. when he does use the blade he is cutting wrong... you should cut with the top third of the blade and at a shallower angle so it does not get stuck.
2. the poll end will only work on roofs with OSB/plywood decking with only a couple layers of comp... it will not make a good hole on a conventional roof and will bounce up and laugh at you on a roof with multiple layers of comp... but like i said, a good method for a limited amount of roofs
egvedo 3 years ago
I totally agree. I am at the station watching this with my capt. and I had just pointed out those same things! This guy doesn't know how to use an axe so he compensates by bringing the wrong axe to the roof (flat not pick) and using brute force. Good luck, pal.
maigles 3 years ago
We did this the other night in training. It works so much better.
Ridoli 3 years ago
Thanks for the idea, will have to try it out and pass it on.
FlameChas3r 3 years ago
That must be a very weak roof.
neverendingnewport 3 years ago
Hi I have changed my mind the U.S fire-fighters are brave and come up with good ideas , i take back everything i say, God Bless America and my all the fireman go to every job with God looking after them, i take back everything, we are all fireman together , to argue or boast is stupid , we all face horror situations everyday,please all take care and lets stick together,
All deptartments unite together
CharlyLouise 3 years ago
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kiann23 bring it! pussy! i have been in more house fires and building fires than you have pussy!! we here in the uk dont do the job for the glory we do it to help people, man you are a d.i.c.k. We here in the Aussie fire service not uk as you say do it the right way , not the wrong way as all your YANK friends do
CharlyLouise 3 years ago
that's awesome. i'm gonna try that next time i'm on a roof
shaggorama 3 years ago
Uh... CharlyLouise and A 183999 are from the UK. Maybe that's why they are frightened to gut up on a roof.... they're ancient!
kiann23 3 years ago
hey marc thanks for the video. I found it interesting and had to try it out. Works very well, I and others were amazed, thanks. I am a fire instructor and I will show this method as well when I teach.
62tonya77 3 years ago
Airbender you are a door handle too., and firemanmfd229, concentrate on living and safety rather tthan getting hero status, AND FOR YOUR NEXT CLIP ITS "HOW TO USE AN AXE.....THE RIGHT WAY" now thats original
CharlyLouise 3 years ago
Saying "10 out of 10 roofs collapse" shows your lack of experience, closed-mindedness and ignorance. Demanding that someone bow and call you "sir" shows how bloated your ego is. Have you ever heard, "Respect the rank, NOT the person?" You have not earned anyone's respect here. Just use the axe the "wrong" already! YOU need to learn this, because YOU will most likely cut your foot off trying to use it the "right" way! And calling me and firemanmfd229 "the handle on a door" is...priceless.
airbender0203 3 years ago
My response to this post is going to be a repeat. Please reference my last reply to your last retarded statement.
firemanmfd229 3 years ago
mr firemanmfd229 ...quite frankly you are the handle on a door ....... but the non polite version which begins with K.. and ends in B and has the letters O and N in it but the other way round , work that out Mr we have 5000 fire alerts a year man, !!
CharlyLouise 3 years ago
Ummm.... yeah... Clearly your ignorance shows your inexperience. Let me guess.. all of those fire alerts are working fires too. You clearly don't know how to pick your battles. When proven wrong on a subject, you simply throw irrelevant words and topics out there, with hopes other people will take your side. That is a sign of immaturity. I can only hope for your crew's sake, that your immaturity is not shown on the fireground the way it is on this posting thread.
firemanmfd229 3 years ago
And yes.... I made a mistake in my last post: "Everyone here knows that the blunt end of a flat head axe was not designed for designed for roof ventillation." I can admit when I am wrong.
firemanmfd229 3 years ago
And for the rest of the community watching this video. IT IS INFORMATIVE!!!! This is simply another, EFFICIENT, way of opening a roof. Everyone here knows that the blunt end of a flat head axe was not designed for designed for roof ventillation. BUT... somebody, probably one that uses his/her brain and thinks outside the box, came up with this idea. And it has been around for a long time. These guys didn't make it up, they are just showing the effectiveness of the technique.
firemanmfd229 3 years ago 5
You guys Crack me up. I love it. And yes I learned this method from our brother from the FDNY in 2001 we I tool a class from them and all I am doing is trying to share with ALL of you who any to be better at what it is we do. Just another idea that's all. It doesn't say it is THE ONLY ,THE BEST just another way to solve a problem. Like what happens if you saw breaks down on you and the guys forget a pick head axes? Try this Offer another idea, post it here in video form so we can learn from it
MarcLucero 3 years ago 3
this video is false u r using the wrng type of axe. flat head axes have a blunt blade they are mainly for forcible entry not roof ventilation. u shld b using a pickhead axe they are sharper.
bmxfrstylr 3 years ago
oh and by the way nice use of the radio letting it swing around and what about working at height gear to stop you falling if you insist on getting on the roof!! oh how silly of me thats being safe and taking precautions you dont do that so forget i even said it, how silly i am
CharlyLouise 3 years ago
By the way, we speak in full and complete sentences here. Here is your quote: "oh and by the way nice use of the radio letting it swing around and what about working at height gear to stop you falling if you insist on getting on the roof!!" What does that even mean? Learn to type.
firemanmfd229 3 years ago
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OH and from bow on call me and A183999 SIR when you refer to us on here
CharlyLouise 3 years ago
Dear Mr SUPER DOOPER MAN OF THE HOUR OUR HERO firemanmfd229, you are quite clearly a gloryfied voulunteer it all comes clear now ,you are a wanna be talking trash its all clear now, its true though americans budget for funreals we budget to stop them !! so every time i win the argument, and get off the roof, if you want to vent open a window! door ! or even the wall, get off the roof !! IDIOT stop be little me i am a senior rank!!
CharlyLouise 3 years ago
Um.. yeah.. I am a full time fireman from Illinois MABAS Division XX. And by the way.. that is the busiest division for fire and call volume, outside of the City of Chicago, in the state. My town is 2.2 sq miles and we run about 5000 calls a year... Averaging 65 working structure fires (that would be houses and commercial). So go and talk you shit to someone that has 0 experience in the fire service. When you begin to know what you are talking about, you can reply. Till then, shut up,SIR!
firemanmfd229 3 years ago
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Dear Mr Firemanmfd229. you are a typical boff officer wanna be, you clearly got no fire ground experiance and like the A* hole of senior ranks, stop sucking up to everyone on here and post your own thoughts and not the ops orders form your bridgade
CharlyLouise 3 years ago
CharlyLouise, you scare me...you don't have any respect for your commanding officers? My officers, chiefs and rated members have a LOT of experience, so I sure as hell listen to what they have to say! If that's sucking up, then I'm a suck up! A183999 and dancedancebeccac, you've just got it all wrong.
airbender0203 3 years ago
Once again, CharlyLouise, the ignorance of your comment shines through. I don't know what department you work on. I am also not going to knock your whole department for your lack of proper training. Do you even know what truck work is? Have you ever seen an axe? Or is it that you are not even a fireman? Either way, if you want to talk tactics and strategy with someone, you should probably know what you are talking about before starting an argument.
firemanmfd229 3 years ago
This is really interesting. I am teaching a class on ventilation, and will show this! Thaks!! Also to defed, I am a young firefighter... There is a difference in being young and ignorant. Some of the comments below scare me, I hope that some of these people recieve some sort of training soon!!
vetitoe362 3 years ago
Your comments give a feeling that you are very interested in learning even as you teach. Young and ignorant are very different your right! You seem to have the right attitude to teach because you are open. Stay that way and SHARE what you learn always with your brothers.. Remember this technique is for flat roof commercial. Works best on plywood roof deck with rolled roofing material. It can be used for forcing window covered by plywood also... good luck.
MarcLucero 3 years ago
lol... truckies... nice video ill have to give this a try...
jakebakingcake 3 years ago
Should we not attempt to make a rescue because it is too hot in the building? Quit being pussies and listen to what other departments have to offer. It may actually help you out one day. The End
firemanmfd229 3 years ago 2
Anyone ever been in heavy smoke and can't start their saw... I have.. then all you have is an axe. Anyone ever saved a building from flashing over on a crew by vertical ventilation.. I have. The removal of that heat is essential to the safety of the interior crew. All of this pussy crap of it being dangerous to be on a roof is straight BS. Last I checked, we are Fireman and as one, my JOB is dangerous. Should we not go interior anymore because we might get burned? (part 2)
firemanmfd229 3 years ago
Ok... by the sounds of all of the negative comments there are not many truckies in this list. First off, to Charlylouise... 10 of 10 roofs don't collapse. That comment was ridiculous. Now.. Speed in ventilation is key to the crews on the interior attack. This is just another technique to use if you don't have a saw. (part 1)
firemanmfd229 3 years ago
10 out of 10 means that none do... and as a truckie you should know thats not true.
FirefighterTHVFD 3 years ago
I am not sure what you are getting at FirefighterTHVFD. I was referencing this comment in a past post by CharlyLouise:" we spend money on preventing deaths rather than using an axe backwards on a roof that will 10 times in 10 collapse!! " I think you misinterpreted either what I said, or what CharlyLouise said. If not, please clarify, because I don't understand your comment to me.
firemanmfd229 3 years ago
I misinterpreted your comment about roof collapse. I thought you were saying 10 out of 10 roofs wouldn't collapse. My apologies if that isn't what you meant.
FirefighterTHVFD 3 years ago
That is what he is saying. 10 out of 10 roofs do NOT collapse. CharlyLouise saying that "10 out of 10 roofs collapse" is completely false. I have yet to try this method, but will the next time I get a chance. We carry a single bit axe on the truck. It has a perfect mirror finish because we basically never use it! I would love to scratch that thing up get it all covered with tar, and have to explain myself to my AO! This is just another great idea we can tuck away to use at some point.
airbender0203 3 years ago
umm i dont know who trained you but this is def not what we do. we are real firefighters and thats stupid to endanger your "family" like that. u need to go back to training and the guy who signed your card shot be consuled. TIME,SKILL,AND ACCURACY IS KEY IN VENTILATION. we train to do this you are rediculus bud.
dancedancebeccac 3 years ago
yo AIR BENDER, A183999 is a quality firefighter and knows what he is talking about, we dont set aside a budget in our service for fire fighter funerals where as you lot do, how backward is that??? we spend money on preventing deaths rather than using an axe backwards on a roof that will 10 times in 10 collapse!! If you have to go in use BA you know that thing you lot hang round your neck , it stops you brreathing smoke in if you actually wear it, yeah , thats a strange thing to you wear it!!DER!
CharlyLouise 3 years ago
thats wicked. p.s. nice shoes. lol. ill have to give it a try though.
McClainTrain 4 years ago
Thats a great technique i responded to a structure fire a few days ago and was running hose, so must of the venting i witnessed was smashing out windows or with a chainsaw, but if i ever have to vent, I wont forget this
jimmyhoffa6969 4 years ago
This is a pretty old method. I had an Indy truck guy show it to me in 2000. Works in every situation I have used it.
ugfire 4 years ago
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hmm! oh look a house on fire! i know lets stand on the roof and make a hole and see what happens. oh shit i've just fell through.duh.
no wonder we use these vids to show how not to it
A183999 4 years ago
Please...you are obviously not a firefighter, or at least not one on a department that does roof ventilation. You are ignorant and understand nothing about how the roof companies work in conjunction with fire attack.
airbender0203 4 years ago 5
I'm a firefighter still learning lots but not in a roof company. How are roof companies suppose to work in conjunction with a fire attack?
fireblades87 4 years ago 2
In a nutshell, and done safely, a hole in the roof over the fire is going to help release hot air/gases/by-products/smoke which can help prevent the horizontal spread of fire, and reduce the chance of a flashover, which can help fire attack from getting their butts kicked inside. It will also help prevent melted helmets, facepieces, SCBA's, and burned turnouts. Hole in the roof...good thing!
airbender0203 4 years ago
Cool, thats what we are taught in our department and academy, glad im on the same page
fireblades87 4 years ago 2
But the big thing is, working in conjunction with the fire attack. if you vent before the pipe is ready then it can turn into a very bad thing. Watched a guy cut the hole to soon and about lost the building.
oatman98 4 years ago
NO building anywhere is worth committing any crew to stand on the roof make stupid holes.
there are other ways and means of attacking a house fire withoutthis method.
Even a steel structure is not safe after 10 mins of heat let alone something the three piggies built.
I am in the building industry so my knowledge of roof construction and materials alows me to make assesments as to where i committ any crew.there is equipment to attack fire from above.
Why risk a life for no reason
A183999 4 years ago
Again...you are NOT a firefighter. We don't cut holes in roofs just for the hell of it. There are many factors and conditions that go into making the decision to go into such an operation. TIME is one of them. Any firefighter would know that metal fails without warning. A wooden structure withstands heat and flame better than a metal one. Containing a fire to one room through a coordinated effort by roof ventilation/fire attack is a damn good reason in my book. WE TRAIN TO DO THIS.
airbender0203 4 years ago
yes i can see how well you train to fall through roofs.
again, is a building worth a life TWAT!
A183999 3 years ago
I don't understand your hostile comments. Do you personally know somebody that has fallen through a roof at a fire? A guy that digs a ditch can say he is in the "building industry". I don't think you know roof construction as well as you THINK you do. I am in the FIRE industry so my knowledge of roof construction and materials allows me to make assessments as to where I commit myself and other firefighters.
airbender0203 3 years ago
Ok I'll bite how about rescuing the trapped victims inside. I would only hope you wouldn't leave them in there. And if you do go get them I would only hope you use the proven method of fire attack with vertical ventilation at them same time. What do I know I have never been to a fire though....
MarcLucero 3 years ago
We absolutely go in to rescue trapped people or missing/down/trapped/ firefighters. This is just one more reason to cut a hole in the roof. Civilians aren't on breathers like we are. Gotta get rid of the heat and smoke.
airbender0203 3 years ago
I was actually replying to A183999 not you. Sorry I got that you understand why we do what do. I was just hoping this other person would go in and get someone or if his fellow FF were inside he would get on the roof and get the heat off those guys... Let's hope and all his comments are not so true. The younger generation a firefighters makes me nervous... If I get trapped I hope they come get me...
MarcLucero 3 years ago
Nice video.
How was the roof condition? How easily is it going to be to strike a flathead through a green roof?
Just curious.
disgustip8ed 4 years ago
Very eye opening video. Nice.
fireslash27 4 years ago 2
cool ty
lordmanger 4 years ago
this technique works great! My department started teaching this method recently
superdoc8404 4 years ago
sledge hammer works well too :)
54spiritedwill54 4 years ago
I always did it this way, its better to save the sharp edge for pounding nails
BillyJackets 4 years ago
Excellent video. Common sense, which is sometimes ignored in the fire service, prevails again.
IrishTruckie 4 years ago 4
Great video I will definitly try that. To all firefighters reading be safe and God bless.
anwall 4 years ago 3
0.35. That's what you call radio interferance!!
t0e0m0a0x0x 4 years ago
lol yeah
matthewpaintballer 4 years ago
My favorite tool is an eight pound maul. It has the weight of a small sledge and the blunt end, but still has a cutting edge. They're also only 20-25 dollars.
dfdtruck22 4 years ago
Thats a really good idea...when you can use a vent saw this is the best way to use your axe...Keep em coming
KYFIRE911 4 years ago
very good idea!! works great. nice work
doubledeuce53 4 years ago
very nice work, guys...excellent demonstration and explanation.
dennis317 4 years ago
What about a pickhead axe
cloverhoseman325 4 years ago
sledge hammer works well also.
jlm993 4 years ago
thats a great idea. i like that better than trying to un-wedge the axe after each hit. its hard enough using an axe.
CTFD13 4 years ago