"The advantage that you get from playing a game...is that you're actually involved..."
And that is why I maintain that video games can never be art in the technical sense. I don't know about what art is more than anyone else, but it seems to me its primary purpose/effect is the audience's reception of the artist's expression. The primary purpose of a game, whatever its artistic merits, is (or should be) the entertainment value derived from its interactive elements.
@VanguardSupreme That's only thanks to the common mediums we have had up until now. Games allow a close connection to the content. Fear/excitement even love can be experienced in a much more intimate fashion. Games still contain narratives, lore, aesthetics, mechanics and character; what games present as a new challenge is the exploration of the work in a non-linear manner. Players in a game enjoy the artistic expression, but in an interactive manner.
Well I usually tend to disagree with Ebert's statements, but here I should say he's right. Games cannot be compared to movies. Games are for people who have nothing to do and be useful but sit all day and play various shit. Movies on the other hand are artful, for they're prone to convey better rhetorics; but still here's one big "but". The problem's that most movies today are pure crap and most of the video games tend to be better constructed than movies...
Are video game art? No. Not yet anyway. I must say that in last ten years or so, stories in games has vastly improved. There are some good, even meaningful stories in games. That being said, games still still suffers from something a like to call "gameplay syndrome" - when gameplay is put before story, characterization or themes. Even worst - sometimes stories in games are just excuse for gameplay.
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2.
the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3.
a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.
5.
any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.
Not all art is a good art.But call video games not art is just ridiculous.It's entertainment and it is oriented toward pop culture and pure entertainment much more than some of the great works of art and literature.So are a lot of films and books .I have not yet seen a video game equal in quality to works of Dostoevsky,Fellini, or Bergman. But i would never call video games not art. Plus Games like Limbo, Grim Fandango, Red Dead redemption and some other adventure games are definitely art.
As a gamer, I agree with Ebert. Games have artistic values, but that doesnt make them art. I understand your point, but one of the main reasons why I (personally) believe they are not art is because they´re only made for profit a true artist makes his art to express something to the world without care for profit (at least not as main). You can say the same happens with film, but not always. Bergman and others have said/showed they didnt care if their films were successful (like Persona)
@hallowedbeeddie Well the problem with your argument is that sometimes artist creates work of art mainly to make some money under necessity to survive. But what he creates can still come out as a work of art.Look at Dostoevsky and how he created The Idiot.And a lot's of great artists did want to become successful.I am very confidant that many of those who create games create them not only to make money but also to express themselves and they really enjoy what they are doing.
For both good and bad, what defines art is the artist. If video games makers call it art it's art. Same as if an "artist" poops in a jar and calls it art, It's art.
Standing on a mountain top in Skyrim and taking in the massive digital landscape surrounding me is possibly the most aesthetically pleasing moment I've had all year. Roger Ebert is wrong indeed.
LMFAO its so funny to see how you all just dont get it, but i cant be here all day schooling you pouty gamers that get so pissed if someone says that vgames arent art, i recommend you check out a Hideo Kojima interview where he has good points about why vgames arent and will never be art (im not kidding here, i red it in a OPM mag) as for me, i'll no longer waste time replying to bitchy and offended geeks, i got art to create lol
@pindtorr Not to sound rude, but Kojima is talking out of his ass. His comment didn't even make any sense. He said that if just one person is captivated by the piece, it's art and then makes the assumption that nobody is captivated or inspired by video games. He also makes the assumption that game developers don't TRY to make their games captivating. Clearly not true. Surprised he even said that tbh. So by his definition, a video game is art.
Stephen Merchant (voice of Wheatley in Portal 2; comedian, writer, director, producer and actor) should speak to him. Portal 2 was the game that made Merchant realise that video games are a form of art and that people respond to them in the same way as movies and TV shows they love. Maybe he'd listen to someone who knows what he's talking about. And then he could play Portal 2. Metal Gear Solid works, too.
to end this silly argument once and for all: which ones of you are actual artists? if none of you are, then you dont even know what art is cause you dont even practice it, a game with an alternative or "artsy" style like braid or okami doesnt make it art, have you seen the artwork called "fountain" by marcel duchamp? its one of the most popular artworks ever, try researching why is it so famous, and maybe youll have a lil idea of what art is before commenting if vgames are art
@pindtorr Hold on. Are you saying you have to be an artist to know what is art? If that is what you meant then I would argue you do not understand art. I and many others wouldn't call ourselves artists, but we certainly know what it is. If nonartists were unable to identify/appreciate art, we would have no successful artists in all of history as there would be no one to enjoy/purchase art. Identifying art isn't a club of creatives.
Your thesis statement is 100% false, proving your point moot.
@rjcripe LMFAO dude, your statement proves that INDEED identifying art is a club of creatives since there are many many theoretic and philosophycal premises that u are unaware of, before saying again that im the one who doesnt understand art, i invite u to google search my name MendTorr, or just take a tuny peek at my channel lol
@pindtorr I may not be what YOU consider an artist so maybe my opinion does not matter to you. My sister, however, IS an artist. And she considers video games a complex form of art.
If this is really what you believe, you are just another art snob.
Just because something is made out of plaster or paint is dumped on a canvas.... that doesn't make it art. Yeah, I can use faulty logic, too.
@lilacpilgrim13 lol seriously ANYBODY can call themselves an artist even if they suck at it, u can check out my work here and see that my point is well founded or u can believe whatever your sister tells u, besides on my first comment i mentioned Marcel Duchamp's "fountain" which is not a painting, seems that u neglected my first point cuz you got pouty and wanted to reply immediatly lol
@pindtorr Yeah, my sister doesn't suck at what she does. She's a very talented student of her craft. I like how you just kind of assume she must suck. That's classy.
Yeah, I am aware that it's not a painting. I deliberately did not mention it because I don't believe that any one piece of art should be used as a sort of checklist to define every other piece of art ever. If you do believe that, again, you're an art snob, simple as.
@pindtorr first of all, went on your channel. Not complaining about the sculptures so much as you seem to hate colour theory and want to destroy my eyes with all that green, heheh.
Secondly, I think it's a little narcissistic to use yourself as an example of great art.
@pindtorr I have no idea how your argument holds any water. Video games are just as much a form of art as film. It's a collaborative process that requires multiple professions to keep it all together. A game designer is not less significant than a movie director. I just don't understand what your argument is. How does a single sculpture debunk the idea that video games/interactive animation are art?
@pindtorr the atristry of videos games goes far deeper than the aesthetics of the medium. It also involves programming, designing compelling levels, a story, characters, a setting, etc. Just look at a game like Portal. That is genius - pure genius. Just think about how much time and deliberation was put into simply the mechanics of the game, let alone everything else. How can that not be considered art?
@TheDoobidoob u didnt look at my first comment here bro, try researching the artwork called "fountain" by Marcel Duchamp, just google it and see why is it such a famous and groundbreaking piece, and maybe youll see that there's a HUGE DIFFERENCE between illustrators/pencillers/designers/musicians/craftmans/programers and an artist
@pindtorr Incidentally, how is there a difference between illustrators/pencillers/designers/musicians/craftmans/programers and an artist? Do you think that just because they are commercial artists that they aren't "real artists"? Do you think that artists that are paid to create concept art for film and games are less skilled or less creative because they are working collaboratively and are getting paid for it? Is this the argument that you are making? Just curious.
@pindtorr You are just a fucking snob who thinks he's better than everyone else cause you uploaded a few "art" videos to Youtube. Art is all subjective field - and your videos and other art is not impressive (yes, I did Google your name and I don't need to be an artist to know that you are full of shit). And, again, you do *not* need to be an artist to identify art. Art would be worthless if that were the case.
You can't blame Roger really because there are still videogame stereotypes out there that thinks videogames are toys. Maybe when we change the term "videogames" to something else we prob see more repect in its genre like how comics gained its respect in art after being called a graphic novel.
Not only do games possess the capacity to draw people into another world, games also often incorporate beuatiful hand drawn artwork and even 12peice+ orchestral masterpieces into a small unassuming disc. Not only that but you are given a chance to get involved in a narrative that unfolds at your personal pace. It is the combined artwork of several different faculties and the skill of many member of each of those faculties.
I really think Ebert has just gone off the deep end into senility, to be totally honest. He's really not considering all the points that, to most of us, are right under our noses. I wrote a piece about this issue a little while back, I don't understand how it can be denied as art. Here's a little definition of art I found: "the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others." Hmm. I'd say video games fit the bill.
I don't normally comment on youtube and such, but video games are NOT art at their core, they NEVER can be art because what they are is a toy, and never a form of art.
video games can be art in that they can be expressive of the imaginations of its writers and designers, so roger ebert is wrong (not the first time that has happened). but there is a commercial trend away from creating video games that are artistically expressive (i.e., ever video game that tries to perfect the person shooter. that is not art; that is engineering).
What is Utterly Baffling lady is Not as to whether Video games are art or not but as to how can you possibly compare the Video games that you call Great Artistic Achievements to The Great Artistic Movies made in History! Nonsense!
Haven't seen the Ebert comments, but good on you. If you are correctly representing Ebert, than he's just being hypocritical (NOBODY wanted to believe that movies were "art" - for many in universities they are STILL in the "basement" of cultural production). Anyway, good work. More examples would make it stronger though (sorry...English teacher :] )
Gaming is the capital of art. Simple; music, animation, computer design, story lines are considered art. It makes no sense that videogames which merges all can't be considered as art. Let alone, nothing can take you to a spiritual and even emotional experience as well as many videogames do
@XBOXMASTER123456 No, because this is fact based, not opinion based. Ebert is wrong. It's not even debatable. Plus, doesn't need to add it's their personal opinion because the fact that the words are coming out of their mouth implies that it is their opinion, there is no reason that needs to be spelled out.
@ProfessorPoopy This isn't at all fact based. Your OPINION does not equal fact. Video games are fine, but I do agree with him because video games will always be based on commercial success, they can't evoke artistic feeling or meaning, and there can't be characters that we care for in video games. Fantasy adventure games can look nice, but that doesn't make them art.
You can agree with him, but I'm sure it's you who's wrong.
First of all, pretty much any meaningful artwork in history was commercial, you think Leonardo's paintings or Michelangelo's sculptures weren't commissioned and paid well? Or Mozart's symphonies, you think he was doing it for shit's and giggles? Or any book or film now or ever? And second, you can, and most people who can follow a storyline do care about a lot of the characters in video games, if the game is good.
@XBOXMASTER123456 Yes, it is because the word has a meaning and video games fit that simple criteria, regarldess of your opinion. And if you don't care for the characters, you're not playing the right games. I've just about always cared for the characters in games that have an actual story. Sure kids games are obvious exception but moder games are perfectly capabe of eliciting emotion, just because it doesn't for you doens't mean it's not art. Plus, everything doens't have to have characters
(continued, couldn't fit in one post) at all to be art. So painting aren't art? WTF!? Many paintings don't have characters, and certainly don't elicit/ emotion. Most painting/drawings/ or whatever are simply there to look nice, of course some try to make symbolism out of it, but I call BS on most of those pretentiousness of it all, they only make meaning out of it to sound smarter than they are. Anyways here is how what I said is true, and why you are wrong. in a way that is not even debatalbe
@ProfessorPoopy Painting, first of all, is LITERALLY "art". Characters aren't the only thing that makes something art. The thing is, that I don't even think you believe that video games are art. You probably just like video games, so you argue against me. When I play video games, same as everyone else, I can be frustrated, having fun, and it can be intense. These are the only emotions video games can express. They can look nice too, but still they aren't completely art.
@ProfessorPoopy Painting, first of all, is LITERALLY "art". Characters aren't the only thing that makes something art. The thing is, that I don't even think you believe that video games are art. You probably just like video games, so you argue against me. When I play video games, same as everyone else, I can be frustrated, having fun, and it can be intense. These are the only emotions video games can express. They can look nice too, but still they aren't completely art.
@XBOXMASTER123456 First, off I maybe buy/rent a video game once or twice a year. The last game I actually played was Halo Reach, back when that came out. Secondly, you didn't actually address anything I've said, which again, are fact based. I used the literal definition of the work, to show how video games fit that criteria.You are the one who said you have to feel emotion/empathy or care if the characters die, so that's why I brought that up. You are contradicting yourself.
You either don't know enough about games, art or both. I'm guessing you're just a kid, and if your only real contact with games is XBOX it's understandable you feel this way. Most XBOX games are produced in america, with a blockbuster mentality. But for instance in japan they view games as a different creative medium, so they dare to create games with narrative subtleties, symbolism etc. which can elicit a lot more complex emotions. (cont.)
And that's just the point, games are a medium, and like with movies or painting or music they're not automatically art, but as an art form they're just as valid, and can have the same or even greater artistic charge.
The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance"
Works produced by such skill and imagination.
There is simply no way you can argue your way out of that, it's completely fact based. So you are tellign me someone who makes a video game doesn't require "creative skill and imagination" Almost all artists to get paid,, doesn't make it not art.
I don't think Roger Ebert would be able to comprehend RPG games or First Time Stragedy games. I myself have a hard time with those. I'd probably recommend simply games from Nintendo. Or even some 1st person shooters like Call of Duty or Golden Eye. I personally think he'd enjoy the Super Mario Galaxy Games.
Either Roger Ebert doesn't know what art is, or he never experienced games as such. He's an old man, and it's understandable he can't comprehend all the changes happening around him, and games are a very complex and hard art form to experience. As with film, with new generations, this debate will be over.
Tell that fat piece of shit to play Shadow of the Colossus. It's the only game I think is artful, but I'm pretty sure that any conceptually lucid person would agree that it has alot of art value.
All you are saying when you believe something to be a work of art is, "I really really really really really really like it and it changed the way I felt and/or thought." That's my definition. As you mentioned Kate, slapping the art label on stuff we like is kind of hilarious. My definition for someone you consider a genius: ...You impress me.....
It doesn't matter what platform you use to make something. Fact: Not every movie is "art." Games are no different. Fact: Ebert's a douche.
Roger Ebert lol never heard of him but the statement of a video game can never be art is simply one persons opinion which is fine.
I personally think they can and are in some cases works of art some times for visuals, some times for the soundtrack and definitely for the gaming experience.
My favorite arts games right now, Okami, Killer 7, Odin Sphere, El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron, Shadow of the Colossus, ICO, and Beyond Good and Evil.
Actually we know what's art and isn't. Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect. It encompasses a diverse range of human activities, creations, and modes of expression. So basically it's something created that influences us. Which games does do to a pretty huge level.
I agree. Video games are art. Even my art teachers all said so during every grade in my school. Like movies, they have stories, scripts, planning, original characters and even original music and artwork (paintings, drawings, etc.) Video games are art, whether he chooses to see that or not. People work hard on video games. Look at Zelda, for example. A friggin' cult spewed out of that because of the almost believable and original religion that was made: the Triforce and Gods. So, yeah. My opinion
Shadow of the Colossus is a sad story about a boy that had his love for a girl to be explored for evil purposes, as he had to hunt down all the marvelous colossus that did nothing but exist, but then were all put to extinction so a mortal female could live, because selfish conflicted boy's heart would get him through all that harm he did by thinking it was the lesser evil. If that's not art, what is?
actually, the more I think about it I agree 100% with Roger Ebert on this one..
simply because he has a good point, the Game part can never be an art. The graphics, pictures, 3D models we have today + the in-game cinematics which are part of the package, but not part of a game's structure, those can be art without a doubt but they origin from movies.
So, saying games can be art is wrong. There's nothing artistic about you, me or anyone else playing a game if it had no high quality graphics.
I'm not sure what to make of your defense or of Roger Ebert's opinion.
I believe that art can be a part of a game, but because a mass of players miss it, ignore it or just don't care, it's never such a big thing and most games companies don't even bother with it.
As for how art is introduced in a game, it can be done Only through graphical quality or in-game movies. As for the game core though, art simply does not and will never exist. I think that's what he was trying to say in his defense.
I'm so glad you mentioned Shadow of the Colossus because when I think of art and video games together SotC is one of the games that comes to my mind first, in fact I think it IS the first, followed by several others
The funny thing is that nowadays more video games have artistic merit than movies. Would anyone really say Transformers 3 or Twilight is more intelligent than Bioshock or Half-Life 2 ?
Read some Tolstoy - art is about finding genuine feelings from the creators, drawing from their own experiences and emotions. Actors can bring that to films. And artists can express this is in abstract ways. Video games are not art because they don't draw this sort of emotion from the developers. Art should not merely be equated with being visually artistic.
It will take a while for video games to become an art form that rivals film at its best. Sure Video games can rival Hollywood at its best but its a new medium that only recently began a medium that started releasing games aimed at older audiences. Recently, I mean the mid to late 90's. But I think it has to potential to become a high art form even faster than film did.
@TallBoyBlue But even the 80s ones were artistic IMO. Castlevania used intelligent level placement, well-designed environments, and themes from horror film and literature to convey a certain atmosphere. Zelda told a beautiful story very well without stellar graphics. Nah, I don't think Ebert has ever played any video games at all, or at least not beyond a superficial level.
Roger Ebert is not only ugly but a fake. He tried to be a screenplay writer but produced only trash such as the cheap smut rip off "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls". He set himself up as a critic and Gene Siskel hated him. His bio on Wik, which is conservative about listing scandal about the still living, stated he went to AA for a drinking problem. Yet he trashes a dead actor who drank while driving (not a good idea, of course) for publicity. Now Ebert is more dead than alive, missing a jaw.
Art in my opinion is most properly defined as anything that captivates ones senses in such a way that endorphins are released in the brain and cause one to feel any form of what most would consider joy, it is not whatever some pompous ass decides he wishes it to be. Personally, video games are most definitely an art. Not just graphically but mechanically as well.
Red Dead Redemption was amazing and made me want to live in the wild west until I realized that I'm a scrawny guy with serious health problems and probably wouldn't last long. Every art form has products that raise it up to the next level and then abunch of crap that you don't even want to acknowledge as being in the same category. I say don't hate it, I just don't get it . Great video
As for games, I dont have many to pick from but I always thought the Metal Gear Solid series was a great one, especially the last couple, Hideo Kojima ups the ante every single game, One of the few directors that knows how to blow my mind with whatever he comes up with. Haven't played all of Heavy Rain but the 6 hours that I played blew my mind. From what I played and expierenced it definately ranks up there with Se7en and Silence of the Lambs.
I think Art can be considered as an expression that manifests itself in several different kinds of language, such as music, cinema… In video games there is certainly an expression that happens according to a concept and manifests itself in a very unique kind of language. That being said, I do think video games are Art, and to question its validity as such is not a very mature questioning for the simple reason that it ends on a "yes" or "no". So why don't we ask; what's the value of this Art?
No but in a video game you're not be taken through an experience. You're taking yourself through the experience. But the big difference is that a video game is a game. It's not about you appreciating the work. It's about winning the game.
Art is an expression of creative skill and imagination, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. I dont play computer games but the games you talked about certainly have a visual beauty and their creators certainly must have creative skill and imagination. Also judging from your heartfelt defense of computer games it seems they produce a strong emotional resonance. So I guess that makes them art.
for god's sake. video games are tools. the player uses the tool to make art. i didn't buy Half Life so i could pop it in my DVD player, grab some popcorn, and watch it. get over missing the point - surely not your first time.
Someone needs to check her out FIRST to be sure that if she's even a REAL WOMAN! Today, we have LADY GAGA pretending to be REAL WOMAN and so on! We also have REAL (anatomically correct) WOMAN that isn't into MAN at all because they have WRONG (brain wiring) SOFTWARE at birth with but RIGHT (biological body) HARDWARE!! =/
BTW, she a PROMOTER, and they R not going to do it with FAT & UGLY CHICK 4 sure!! >=P
Of course, U can't! Neither can I! If I can, I would drop whatever I'm doing now, holding her hand, & cuddle with her on some sandy beach while red sun set on our backdrop!! ;-)
RED is a powerful COLOR, which made HeteroSexual Men weak on our knee....
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This is WHY those Sexy WOMEN would wear their RED Lipsticks, put on their RED High Heels, & cloth themselves in RED Dress, but she did it with RED Hair!! >=)
um..i dont think its insulting,i think its idiotic,the two are not even in the same dimension of art...music,and videogame,might aswell compare Bruce Willis to beethoven,the two cant be compared
but nonetheless,games are art,music,the stories,the sculpting of characters,the terrain,the emotions they invoke,you cant ignore those facts:/ :this was my arguement at a different video
" Who gives a Shit what Roger thinks or for that matter U too, like the whole world is A Canvase of Life which is true Art which flows out into the world from inside all of us" I won't bother your show anymore its a waste of my time, outt'a here PEACE !
Roger Ebert, like most critics, is a self important shitsack that could never produce anything close to as artistic or creative as even the shittiest intellectual properties he criticizes. He made one obscure, poor quality, softcore porn film in the 70's. I believe that's the extent of his cultural contributions. So who the fuck cares what his pompous, old ass thinks? The constitution of artistic value is completely subjective to the observer.
Video games might not have been art 10 years ago, but they're alot different today, at leat most of them, like GTA. That had a story and characters ect.
I'm not much of a gamer, but I am a filmmaker and I agree with you entirely. The realisation came to me in a club recently as images from one of the Crash Bandicoot games was being projected onto the wall. I found these images every bit as striking and as much a part of the collective consciousness as such artistically important films like Metropolis or The Wizard of Oz.
Games are art.
I usually agree with him on film matters, but Ebert is wrong on this one.
art is full of loosers :D As an artist you can express yourself and dive in another world bring something which is just born in your mind to life. These people who think so have no idea.
show him final fantasy 8 its got a great story somwhat confusing battle system great music great characers and one emo one and great backgrounds and cgi i still don't have a clue why eyes on me dident get more attention, its better than most of the crap we listen to these days
Dear shegeek, you have interesting views and good arguments. However, you are so dreadfully boring, I had a problem staying awake for this video. Wake up, woman! Where is the passion? Do something to show us you care. Dear god.
Christopher Nolan says video games are art and even plans to do an inception game... Ebert said Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is the best Indiana Jones movie.
"Show him Bioshock, that game is art in every sense of the word."
Bioshock is WUSSIFICATION or FEMINIZATION of our HARDCORE Video Games!! {roll my eyes}
I welcome more FEMALE GAMERS, but why can't FEMALE GAMERS & their GAY GAMERS have their own MARKET SEGMENT? If FILM INDUSTRY have CHICK FLICKS, why can't VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY do the same?
SEARCH & READ "Is Sex and the City gay?"
Stay the FUCK OFF our HARDCORE Video Games if U R CLUELESS on how to correctly making them!! >=(
Bioshock is not TRUE kind of FPS at all! Bioshock tried to copy and to surpass System Shock 2, which is a FPS + RPG Video Game, but Bioshock FAIL at that in my book!! =/
System Shock 2 from Looking Glass Studios....
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Here R some example of REAL Competitive FPS!! >=)
Quake 3 Arena from Id Software ....
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Crysis from Crytek....
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All other ARTsy Hardcore GAMES tend to be just WANNABE & POSERS!! >=P
@IronJackalTw Bioshock was never mean't to be a competitive FPS, it is way more about the experience than the actual gameplay, and I am sorry if that makes it too casual for you because it is the best game that I have ever played. Also the games that you mentioned are completely different kinds of games and shouldn't be compared to Bioshock (its like comparing MK to CoD). Oh and System Shock and Bioshock were both designed by Ken Levine so nice try.
"System Shock and Bioshock were both designed by Ken Levine"
Perhaps so, but they R not made by SAME TEAM of Looking Glass Studios! GAME DESIGNER is often CREDIT with everything but a lot of them R not worth that much SALT without their ORIGINAL SUPPORTING TEAM!! =/
If U want EXAMPLE of this, just look at Id Software of Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, & Quake from John Romero! When John Romero left Id Software to make Daikatana, look at how much DISASTER that is without John Carmack!! >=P
INNOVATIVE & ORIGINAL people worked in Looking Glass Studios....
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Yeah, I do missed Looking Glass Studios (Ultima Underworld, System Shock, & Thief), Black Isle (Fallout 1 and 2 & Baldur's Gate), and Bullfrog (Syndicate & Dungeon Keeper), too, because they R some of our BEST Video Game Developers of all time!! =(
SEARCH & READ "Id Software 1992 PIC"
C that! There is no I in TEAM, and that SAME TEAM from Id Software paved way 4 our Hardcore FPS ERA as well!! >=)
SEARCH & READ "Developers don't want the current-gen to end anytime soon"
Ken Levine said, "Ken levine I remember him, the dude who made empty promises to the tribes franchise and screwed it up even more then it already was releasing the emberassing game called tribes vengeance? Totally ignoring the fanbase and making whhatever he wanted in order to sell more then failing to even sell to the fans."
Ken Levine is a NOBODY compared to John Romero!! >=P
Ken Levine is SNAKE OIL SALESMAN kind of like U!! {roll my eyes}
SEARCH & READ "Ken Levine + X-Com = ???"
Tbird said, "How hard is it for these developers to realize people just want the classic X-Com experience but with updated graphics? All games other than UFO defense and TFTD have tried to reinvent the wheel by making it RTS or whatever. All they have to do is remake the same fucking game but with modern graphics."
Ken Levine needs to hand off on our OLD Video Games!! >=(
Ken Levine milk MONEY off NOSTALGIA of our Well-Made OLD Games! He should be BLACK LIST to our Hardcore GAMERS!! >=(
John Romero actually have TALENT as a DESIGNER! After he left Id Software, Quake 2 & onward is more DRY and MECHANICAL! He had DESIGN QUALITY that is like Tomonobu Itagaki, Shinji Mikami, and so on! His problem is that he isn't good with manage MONEY, and he had bias against CODERS like an Overly ARTistic ARSE that he is! He was doing FINE under Id Software!! =/
I like any GREAT DEVELOPERS over your 3rd rated DEVELOPERS with PROFESSIONAL LIARS to back them up instead of show us their REAL GAME MAKING SKILLS!! >=P
Ken Levine is a FILTHY JEW! He had NO TALENT other than taking CREDIT of others!! >=(
System Shock 2 is WORK of Doug Church!! >=)
SEARCH & READ "Doug Church Wiki"
TELL THE TRUTH....
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I look foward to days when Ken Levine would stop FUCK UP our HARDCORE Video Games!! >=)
@IronJackalTw Your grammar is so bad that I don't know if I can respond anymore. The bottom line is I love Bioshock and I don't have time for this anymore, please sir get a life. If Bioshock is too "casual" for you then just don't play it.
@tuccake You really shouldn't hate someone for liking a game from a completely different genre, bioshock is an rpg, quake is an arena shooter, both are quite good games.
Now ken levine did claim wrongful credit for SS2 and did steal alot of concepts and features from other games in bioshock, and he did make the game more casual to appeal to a wider audience, The game would have probably been alot better without him being involved with it ,Everyone is entitled to an opnion but you cant dent fact.
1. The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
2. Works produced by such skill and imagination.
There is the definition. Tell me how Bioshock or any game doesn't apply?
Shadow of the Colossus, basically wordless, had me more emotional than many movies I've seen. I'm not even going to go into detail, but it was incredible.
you can lose a game too, and not in the literal sense. alot of video games have soul crushingly depressing endings. in a story sense, you can still lose at a video game.
Hes obviously never played To The Moon. Everyone should play through that, its story is the most amazing thing i've experienced in any medium.
UncleJules93 4 days ago
"The advantage that you get from playing a game...is that you're actually involved..."
And that is why I maintain that video games can never be art in the technical sense. I don't know about what art is more than anyone else, but it seems to me its primary purpose/effect is the audience's reception of the artist's expression. The primary purpose of a game, whatever its artistic merits, is (or should be) the entertainment value derived from its interactive elements.
VanguardSupreme 6 days ago
@VanguardSupreme That's only thanks to the common mediums we have had up until now. Games allow a close connection to the content. Fear/excitement even love can be experienced in a much more intimate fashion. Games still contain narratives, lore, aesthetics, mechanics and character; what games present as a new challenge is the exploration of the work in a non-linear manner. Players in a game enjoy the artistic expression, but in an interactive manner.
Franticalmagic 3 days ago
Well I usually tend to disagree with Ebert's statements, but here I should say he's right. Games cannot be compared to movies. Games are for people who have nothing to do and be useful but sit all day and play various shit. Movies on the other hand are artful, for they're prone to convey better rhetorics; but still here's one big "but". The problem's that most movies today are pure crap and most of the video games tend to be better constructed than movies...
890slay 1 week ago
beautifullll
boatblocker 1 week ago
You are beautiful Geeky Girl and Ebert is Wrong
ThisisAliFareedshow 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Are video game art? No. Not yet anyway. I must say that in last ten years or so, stories in games has vastly improved. There are some good, even meaningful stories in games. That being said, games still still suffers from something a like to call "gameplay syndrome" - when gameplay is put before story, characterization or themes. Even worst - sometimes stories in games are just excuse for gameplay.
1701EarlGrey 1 week ago
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1701EarlGrey 1 week ago 2
"Art has never been given a good definition"
1.
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2.
the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3.
a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.
5.
any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.
Badon124 1 week ago
Would you please give a link to the 1st game you mention. Brea, or how ever it's spelled. I can't find it. Thank you.
IamNemoN01 2 weeks ago
Am I too late for the giveaway? :P
IamNemoN01 2 weeks ago
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this game yet, but I would get him to play Indigo Prophecy.
Chevellion7 3 weeks ago
if i could get him to play a game, id show him to persona 3.
ttamecco 1 month ago
Not all art is a good art.But call video games not art is just ridiculous.It's entertainment and it is oriented toward pop culture and pure entertainment much more than some of the great works of art and literature.So are a lot of films and books .I have not yet seen a video game equal in quality to works of Dostoevsky,Fellini, or Bergman. But i would never call video games not art. Plus Games like Limbo, Grim Fandango, Red Dead redemption and some other adventure games are definitely art.
andrei3503 1 month ago
As a gamer, I agree with Ebert. Games have artistic values, but that doesnt make them art. I understand your point, but one of the main reasons why I (personally) believe they are not art is because they´re only made for profit a true artist makes his art to express something to the world without care for profit (at least not as main). You can say the same happens with film, but not always. Bergman and others have said/showed they didnt care if their films were successful (like Persona)
hallowedbeeddie 1 month ago
@hallowedbeeddie Well the problem with your argument is that sometimes artist creates work of art mainly to make some money under necessity to survive. But what he creates can still come out as a work of art.Look at Dostoevsky and how he created The Idiot.And a lot's of great artists did want to become successful.I am very confidant that many of those who create games create them not only to make money but also to express themselves and they really enjoy what they are doing.
andrei3503 1 month ago
For both good and bad, what defines art is the artist. If video games makers call it art it's art. Same as if an "artist" poops in a jar and calls it art, It's art.
photonguy69 1 month ago
The Uncharted series is the best trilogy of action films ever made.
ThomAitken7 1 month ago 3
Standing on a mountain top in Skyrim and taking in the massive digital landscape surrounding me is possibly the most aesthetically pleasing moment I've had all year. Roger Ebert is wrong indeed.
aaoppe 1 month ago
LMFAO its so funny to see how you all just dont get it, but i cant be here all day schooling you pouty gamers that get so pissed if someone says that vgames arent art, i recommend you check out a Hideo Kojima interview where he has good points about why vgames arent and will never be art (im not kidding here, i red it in a OPM mag) as for me, i'll no longer waste time replying to bitchy and offended geeks, i got art to create lol
pindtorr 2 months ago
@pindtorr Not to sound rude, but Kojima is talking out of his ass. His comment didn't even make any sense. He said that if just one person is captivated by the piece, it's art and then makes the assumption that nobody is captivated or inspired by video games. He also makes the assumption that game developers don't TRY to make their games captivating. Clearly not true. Surprised he even said that tbh. So by his definition, a video game is art.
TheDoobidoob 1 month ago
Stephen Merchant (voice of Wheatley in Portal 2; comedian, writer, director, producer and actor) should speak to him. Portal 2 was the game that made Merchant realise that video games are a form of art and that people respond to them in the same way as movies and TV shows they love. Maybe he'd listen to someone who knows what he's talking about. And then he could play Portal 2. Metal Gear Solid works, too.
lilacpilgrim13 2 months ago
>Anyone,
>Defining something undefined.
Lawl
zakkyummms 2 months ago
to end this silly argument once and for all: which ones of you are actual artists? if none of you are, then you dont even know what art is cause you dont even practice it, a game with an alternative or "artsy" style like braid or okami doesnt make it art, have you seen the artwork called "fountain" by marcel duchamp? its one of the most popular artworks ever, try researching why is it so famous, and maybe youll have a lil idea of what art is before commenting if vgames are art
pindtorr 2 months ago
@pindtorr Hold on. Are you saying you have to be an artist to know what is art? If that is what you meant then I would argue you do not understand art. I and many others wouldn't call ourselves artists, but we certainly know what it is. If nonartists were unable to identify/appreciate art, we would have no successful artists in all of history as there would be no one to enjoy/purchase art. Identifying art isn't a club of creatives.
Your thesis statement is 100% false, proving your point moot.
rjcripe 2 months ago
@rjcripe LMFAO dude, your statement proves that INDEED identifying art is a club of creatives since there are many many theoretic and philosophycal premises that u are unaware of, before saying again that im the one who doesnt understand art, i invite u to google search my name MendTorr, or just take a tuny peek at my channel lol
pindtorr 2 months ago
@pindtorr I may not be what YOU consider an artist so maybe my opinion does not matter to you. My sister, however, IS an artist. And she considers video games a complex form of art.
If this is really what you believe, you are just another art snob.
Just because something is made out of plaster or paint is dumped on a canvas.... that doesn't make it art. Yeah, I can use faulty logic, too.
lilacpilgrim13 2 months ago
@lilacpilgrim13 lol seriously ANYBODY can call themselves an artist even if they suck at it, u can check out my work here and see that my point is well founded or u can believe whatever your sister tells u, besides on my first comment i mentioned Marcel Duchamp's "fountain" which is not a painting, seems that u neglected my first point cuz you got pouty and wanted to reply immediatly lol
pindtorr 2 months ago
@pindtorr Yeah, my sister doesn't suck at what she does. She's a very talented student of her craft. I like how you just kind of assume she must suck. That's classy.
Yeah, I am aware that it's not a painting. I deliberately did not mention it because I don't believe that any one piece of art should be used as a sort of checklist to define every other piece of art ever. If you do believe that, again, you're an art snob, simple as.
lilacpilgrim13 2 months ago
@pindtorr first of all, went on your channel. Not complaining about the sculptures so much as you seem to hate colour theory and want to destroy my eyes with all that green, heheh.
Secondly, I think it's a little narcissistic to use yourself as an example of great art.
TheDoobidoob 2 months ago
@pindtorr I'm sorry for leaving so many comments XD
You mention that anyone can call themselves an artist no matter how skilled they are? should that matter? Bad art is still art, my friend.
TheDoobidoob 2 months ago
@pindtorr I have no idea how your argument holds any water. Video games are just as much a form of art as film. It's a collaborative process that requires multiple professions to keep it all together. A game designer is not less significant than a movie director. I just don't understand what your argument is. How does a single sculpture debunk the idea that video games/interactive animation are art?
TheDoobidoob 2 months ago
@pindtorr the atristry of videos games goes far deeper than the aesthetics of the medium. It also involves programming, designing compelling levels, a story, characters, a setting, etc. Just look at a game like Portal. That is genius - pure genius. Just think about how much time and deliberation was put into simply the mechanics of the game, let alone everything else. How can that not be considered art?
TheDoobidoob 2 months ago
@TheDoobidoob u didnt look at my first comment here bro, try researching the artwork called "fountain" by Marcel Duchamp, just google it and see why is it such a famous and groundbreaking piece, and maybe youll see that there's a HUGE DIFFERENCE between illustrators/pencillers/designers/musicians/craftmans/programers and an artist
pindtorr 2 months ago
@pindtorr I fail to see what the difference is between artists and artists. You are out of your fucking mind.
lilacpilgrim13 2 months ago
@pindtorr Haha.Yeah, I already knew about "Fountain", thank you.
Not exactly sure how it proves your point.
TheDoobidoob 2 months ago
@pindtorr Incidentally, how is there a difference between illustrators/pencillers/designers/musicians/craftmans/programers and an artist? Do you think that just because they are commercial artists that they aren't "real artists"? Do you think that artists that are paid to create concept art for film and games are less skilled or less creative because they are working collaboratively and are getting paid for it? Is this the argument that you are making? Just curious.
TheDoobidoob 2 months ago
@pindtorr You are just a fucking snob who thinks he's better than everyone else cause you uploaded a few "art" videos to Youtube. Art is all subjective field - and your videos and other art is not impressive (yes, I did Google your name and I don't need to be an artist to know that you are full of shit). And, again, you do *not* need to be an artist to identify art. Art would be worthless if that were the case.
rjcripe 2 months ago
he must not have play heavy rain ever!
kfki 2 months ago
Meh...
egadxxx 2 months ago
For me Shadow of the Colossus is a more compelling experience than most movies.
squerintain 2 months ago
Clearly Roger Ebert hasn't played Final Fantasy VI and Earthbound
OmnomTheDevourer 2 months ago
You can't blame Roger really because there are still videogame stereotypes out there that thinks videogames are toys. Maybe when we change the term "videogames" to something else we prob see more repect in its genre like how comics gained its respect in art after being called a graphic novel.
tkoizumi 2 months ago
Not only do games possess the capacity to draw people into another world, games also often incorporate beuatiful hand drawn artwork and even 12peice+ orchestral masterpieces into a small unassuming disc. Not only that but you are given a chance to get involved in a narrative that unfolds at your personal pace. It is the combined artwork of several different faculties and the skill of many member of each of those faculties.
gogomanic 2 months ago
I really think Ebert has just gone off the deep end into senility, to be totally honest. He's really not considering all the points that, to most of us, are right under our noses. I wrote a piece about this issue a little while back, I don't understand how it can be denied as art. Here's a little definition of art I found: "the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others." Hmm. I'd say video games fit the bill.
AlgernonFTW 2 months ago
If video games aren't art, why have I spent every afternoon watching my brother play Final Fantasy 7, and cried 3 times during the game?
waitingformypopcorn 2 months ago
I don't normally comment on youtube and such, but video games are NOT art at their core, they NEVER can be art because what they are is a toy, and never a form of art.
imcaspa1995 3 months ago
if i picked something for ebery to play that i think would get a positive response would be L.A. Noire
SlaginnMetal247 3 months ago
Get back to making My Little Pony, Friendship is Magic!
You belong in the animation studio...not on the webcam! >:/
vjm3 3 months ago
video games can be art in that they can be expressive of the imaginations of its writers and designers, so roger ebert is wrong (not the first time that has happened). but there is a commercial trend away from creating video games that are artistically expressive (i.e., ever video game that tries to perfect the person shooter. that is not art; that is engineering).
MsChBong 3 months ago
What is Utterly Baffling lady is Not as to whether Video games are art or not but as to how can you possibly compare the Video games that you call Great Artistic Achievements to The Great Artistic Movies made in History! Nonsense!
Megapolable 3 months ago
szép szemed van
jacseszbori 3 months ago
Roger Ebert made 12 accounts and disliked this 12 times.
TheMattzzz 3 months ago
Haven't seen the Ebert comments, but good on you. If you are correctly representing Ebert, than he's just being hypocritical (NOBODY wanted to believe that movies were "art" - for many in universities they are STILL in the "basement" of cultural production). Anyway, good work. More examples would make it stronger though (sorry...English teacher :] )
WillReadman 3 months ago
What an airhead.
Bregowald 3 months ago
Gaming is the capital of art. Simple; music, animation, computer design, story lines are considered art. It makes no sense that videogames which merges all can't be considered as art. Let alone, nothing can take you to a spiritual and even emotional experience as well as many videogames do
CreepyLizard 3 months ago
What about Alice: The madness returns? That game is so visually stunning unlike any other game I've ever seen.
dmaster225 3 months ago
has you ever played UNCHARTED? tha story is amazing
ROY0666 3 months ago
Should be called "why I disagree with Roger Ebert" since you're interpreting his words. He isn't "wrong" in saying that.
XBOXMASTER123456 3 months ago
Comment removed
ProfessorPoopy 3 months ago
@XBOXMASTER123456 No, because this is fact based, not opinion based. Ebert is wrong. It's not even debatable. Plus, doesn't need to add it's their personal opinion because the fact that the words are coming out of their mouth implies that it is their opinion, there is no reason that needs to be spelled out.
ProfessorPoopy 3 months ago
@ProfessorPoopy This isn't at all fact based. Your OPINION does not equal fact. Video games are fine, but I do agree with him because video games will always be based on commercial success, they can't evoke artistic feeling or meaning, and there can't be characters that we care for in video games. Fantasy adventure games can look nice, but that doesn't make them art.
XBOXMASTER123456 3 months ago
@XBOXMASTER123456
You can agree with him, but I'm sure it's you who's wrong.
First of all, pretty much any meaningful artwork in history was commercial, you think Leonardo's paintings or Michelangelo's sculptures weren't commissioned and paid well? Or Mozart's symphonies, you think he was doing it for shit's and giggles? Or any book or film now or ever? And second, you can, and most people who can follow a storyline do care about a lot of the characters in video games, if the game is good.
nekineki 3 months ago in playlist Liked
@nekineki No cares about the characers because they die all the time and don't have personality. Don't even bring up that bullshit.
XBOXMASTER123456 3 months ago
@XBOXMASTER123456
lol ok i see now you're ether stupid or a troll
nekineki 3 months ago
@XBOXMASTER123456 Yes, it is because the word has a meaning and video games fit that simple criteria, regarldess of your opinion. And if you don't care for the characters, you're not playing the right games. I've just about always cared for the characters in games that have an actual story. Sure kids games are obvious exception but moder games are perfectly capabe of eliciting emotion, just because it doesn't for you doens't mean it's not art. Plus, everything doens't have to have characters
ProfessorPoopy 3 months ago
(continued, couldn't fit in one post) at all to be art. So painting aren't art? WTF!? Many paintings don't have characters, and certainly don't elicit/ emotion. Most painting/drawings/ or whatever are simply there to look nice, of course some try to make symbolism out of it, but I call BS on most of those pretentiousness of it all, they only make meaning out of it to sound smarter than they are. Anyways here is how what I said is true, and why you are wrong. in a way that is not even debatalbe
ProfessorPoopy 3 months ago
@ProfessorPoopy Painting, first of all, is LITERALLY "art". Characters aren't the only thing that makes something art. The thing is, that I don't even think you believe that video games are art. You probably just like video games, so you argue against me. When I play video games, same as everyone else, I can be frustrated, having fun, and it can be intense. These are the only emotions video games can express. They can look nice too, but still they aren't completely art.
XBOXMASTER123456 3 months ago
@ProfessorPoopy Painting, first of all, is LITERALLY "art". Characters aren't the only thing that makes something art. The thing is, that I don't even think you believe that video games are art. You probably just like video games, so you argue against me. When I play video games, same as everyone else, I can be frustrated, having fun, and it can be intense. These are the only emotions video games can express. They can look nice too, but still they aren't completely art.
XBOXMASTER123456 3 months ago
@XBOXMASTER123456 First, off I maybe buy/rent a video game once or twice a year. The last game I actually played was Halo Reach, back when that came out. Secondly, you didn't actually address anything I've said, which again, are fact based. I used the literal definition of the work, to show how video games fit that criteria.You are the one who said you have to feel emotion/empathy or care if the characters die, so that's why I brought that up. You are contradicting yourself.
ProfessorPoopy 3 months ago
@XBOXMASTER123456
You either don't know enough about games, art or both. I'm guessing you're just a kid, and if your only real contact with games is XBOX it's understandable you feel this way. Most XBOX games are produced in america, with a blockbuster mentality. But for instance in japan they view games as a different creative medium, so they dare to create games with narrative subtleties, symbolism etc. which can elicit a lot more complex emotions. (cont.)
nekineki 3 months ago
@XBOXMASTER123456
(Continued)
And that's just the point, games are a medium, and like with movies or painting or music they're not automatically art, but as an art form they're just as valid, and can have the same or even greater artistic charge.
nekineki 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
3, the literal meaning of the word:
The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance"
Works produced by such skill and imagination.
There is simply no way you can argue your way out of that, it's completely fact based. So you are tellign me someone who makes a video game doesn't require "creative skill and imagination" Almost all artists to get paid,, doesn't make it not art.
ProfessorPoopy 3 months ago
Comment removed
ProfessorPoopy 3 months ago
I don't think Roger Ebert would be able to comprehend RPG games or First Time Stragedy games. I myself have a hard time with those. I'd probably recommend simply games from Nintendo. Or even some 1st person shooters like Call of Duty or Golden Eye. I personally think he'd enjoy the Super Mario Galaxy Games.
Showtimeblogs 3 months ago
Metal Gear Solid has a better story than most movies today.
merritt2014 3 months ago 19
@merritt2014 you're talking about that convoluted piece of shit that Hideo Kojima himself said he didn't understand?
Lereonka 3 months ago
Either Roger Ebert doesn't know what art is, or he never experienced games as such. He's an old man, and it's understandable he can't comprehend all the changes happening around him, and games are a very complex and hard art form to experience. As with film, with new generations, this debate will be over.
nekineki 3 months ago 8
Tell that fat piece of shit to play Shadow of the Colossus. It's the only game I think is artful, but I'm pretty sure that any conceptually lucid person would agree that it has alot of art value.
ColossusShade 3 months ago
All you are saying when you believe something to be a work of art is, "I really really really really really really like it and it changed the way I felt and/or thought." That's my definition. As you mentioned Kate, slapping the art label on stuff we like is kind of hilarious. My definition for someone you consider a genius: ...You impress me.....
It doesn't matter what platform you use to make something. Fact: Not every movie is "art." Games are no different. Fact: Ebert's a douche.
ChesterAsucka 4 months ago
Wow that was an awesome reaming of the guy. Way to nerd rage the crap outta him LMFAO! GG!
Knellox 4 months ago
Roger Ebert lol never heard of him but the statement of a video game can never be art is simply one persons opinion which is fine.
I personally think they can and are in some cases works of art some times for visuals, some times for the soundtrack and definitely for the gaming experience.
leezaal 4 months ago
She is exceptionally hot in this video
XwaSabwryBat 4 months ago
You made some very good points in this video. Video games are works of art..
WebsiteToSell 4 months ago
If you're going to prove that video games are art then why don't you show better examples....just saying....
DesertTornado 4 months ago
roger ebert is right
xanderqw 4 months ago
@xanderqw Roger Ebert is wrong.
giantzombiechild 3 months ago
My favorite arts games right now, Okami, Killer 7, Odin Sphere, El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron, Shadow of the Colossus, ICO, and Beyond Good and Evil.
starcominfinity 4 months ago
I think Lisa Turtle said it best. "What is art? Are we art? Is art art?"
spulkagent47 4 months ago
Actually we know what's art and isn't. Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect. It encompasses a diverse range of human activities, creations, and modes of expression. So basically it's something created that influences us. Which games does do to a pretty huge level.
wweworldwrestling 4 months ago
@wweworldwrestling In a nutshell anyway, it's a bit deeper than that but you get my point.
wweworldwrestling 4 months ago
You remind me of Natasha Beddingfield :|
MissTayanita 4 months ago
SHENMUE 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
flyKICKyo 4 months ago
I agree. Video games are art. Even my art teachers all said so during every grade in my school. Like movies, they have stories, scripts, planning, original characters and even original music and artwork (paintings, drawings, etc.) Video games are art, whether he chooses to see that or not. People work hard on video games. Look at Zelda, for example. A friggin' cult spewed out of that because of the almost believable and original religion that was made: the Triforce and Gods. So, yeah. My opinion
SarahGailCotton 4 months ago
Shadow of the Colossus is a sad story about a boy that had his love for a girl to be explored for evil purposes, as he had to hunt down all the marvelous colossus that did nothing but exist, but then were all put to extinction so a mortal female could live, because selfish conflicted boy's heart would get him through all that harm he did by thinking it was the lesser evil. If that's not art, what is?
luaudesigndf 5 months ago
Shadow of the Colossus, ImorTall, The Path, Journey, Flower...
luaudesigndf 5 months ago
SUPER METROID. Best game ever made imo. Phenomenal artwork for the 16-bit days. Work of art bar none.
AcidBong 5 months ago
@AcidBong Metroid Prime was better
Volf99 5 months ago
He should fucking see Red Dead Redemption. I love him, but he just pissed me off.
danerogil 5 months ago
actually, the more I think about it I agree 100% with Roger Ebert on this one..
simply because he has a good point, the Game part can never be an art. The graphics, pictures, 3D models we have today + the in-game cinematics which are part of the package, but not part of a game's structure, those can be art without a doubt but they origin from movies.
So, saying games can be art is wrong. There's nothing artistic about you, me or anyone else playing a game if it had no high quality graphics.
toxicitzi 5 months ago
I'm not sure what to make of your defense or of Roger Ebert's opinion.
I believe that art can be a part of a game, but because a mass of players miss it, ignore it or just don't care, it's never such a big thing and most games companies don't even bother with it.
As for how art is introduced in a game, it can be done Only through graphical quality or in-game movies. As for the game core though, art simply does not and will never exist. I think that's what he was trying to say in his defense.
toxicitzi 5 months ago
I'm so glad you mentioned Shadow of the Colossus because when I think of art and video games together SotC is one of the games that comes to my mind first, in fact I think it IS the first, followed by several others
CrazyGamerDragon64 5 months ago
Comment removed
VioletSpikeZiggy 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
hey im just wondering are u on pornhub premium? cause i swear ive seen you on the mikes apartment tab in the premium section.
xFTWxROCKSTARx 6 months ago
The funny thing is that nowadays more video games have artistic merit than movies. Would anyone really say Transformers 3 or Twilight is more intelligent than Bioshock or Half-Life 2 ?
eateroftheflame 6 months ago
Read some Tolstoy - art is about finding genuine feelings from the creators, drawing from their own experiences and emotions. Actors can bring that to films. And artists can express this is in abstract ways. Video games are not art because they don't draw this sort of emotion from the developers. Art should not merely be equated with being visually artistic.
oldfool666 6 months ago
Is Vault boy behind her?
21Assasin 7 months ago
It will take a while for video games to become an art form that rivals film at its best. Sure Video games can rival Hollywood at its best but its a new medium that only recently began a medium that started releasing games aimed at older audiences. Recently, I mean the mid to late 90's. But I think it has to potential to become a high art form even faster than film did.
doctorman1000 7 months ago
@TallBoyBlue But even the 80s ones were artistic IMO. Castlevania used intelligent level placement, well-designed environments, and themes from horror film and literature to convey a certain atmosphere. Zelda told a beautiful story very well without stellar graphics. Nah, I don't think Ebert has ever played any video games at all, or at least not beyond a superficial level.
DarthKrattus 7 months ago
Roger Ebert is not only ugly but a fake. He tried to be a screenplay writer but produced only trash such as the cheap smut rip off "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls". He set himself up as a critic and Gene Siskel hated him. His bio on Wik, which is conservative about listing scandal about the still living, stated he went to AA for a drinking problem. Yet he trashes a dead actor who drank while driving (not a good idea, of course) for publicity. Now Ebert is more dead than alive, missing a jaw.
ZarahLean 7 months ago
I think Earthbound is one of the games with the most aesthetics in them. It was just so great and emotional.
PkrBarMovie 8 months ago
Art in my opinion is most properly defined as anything that captivates ones senses in such a way that endorphins are released in the brain and cause one to feel any form of what most would consider joy, it is not whatever some pompous ass decides he wishes it to be. Personally, video games are most definitely an art. Not just graphically but mechanically as well.
frozenslumber 8 months ago
Red Dead Redemption was amazing and made me want to live in the wild west until I realized that I'm a scrawny guy with serious health problems and probably wouldn't last long. Every art form has products that raise it up to the next level and then abunch of crap that you don't even want to acknowledge as being in the same category. I say don't hate it, I just don't get it . Great video
CMTPROMISES 8 months ago
As for games, I dont have many to pick from but I always thought the Metal Gear Solid series was a great one, especially the last couple, Hideo Kojima ups the ante every single game, One of the few directors that knows how to blow my mind with whatever he comes up with. Haven't played all of Heavy Rain but the 6 hours that I played blew my mind. From what I played and expierenced it definately ranks up there with Se7en and Silence of the Lambs.
CMTPROMISES 8 months ago
When it comes to Ebert, I learned never to trust a man that looks like the love child of Herbert Hoover and the Pillsbury doughboy.
CMTPROMISES 8 months ago
I think Art can be considered as an expression that manifests itself in several different kinds of language, such as music, cinema… In video games there is certainly an expression that happens according to a concept and manifests itself in a very unique kind of language. That being said, I do think video games are Art, and to question its validity as such is not a very mature questioning for the simple reason that it ends on a "yes" or "no". So why don't we ask; what's the value of this Art?
blacespace 8 months ago
I think I just fell in love.
kylehudson00 8 months ago
No but in a video game you're not be taken through an experience. You're taking yourself through the experience. But the big difference is that a video game is a game. It's not about you appreciating the work. It's about winning the game.
DAmicoJohnny 8 months ago
He definitely never plays Metal Gear series. if that's not Art, then I don't know what is.
rahxun 8 months ago
Art is an expression of creative skill and imagination, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. I dont play computer games but the games you talked about certainly have a visual beauty and their creators certainly must have creative skill and imagination. Also judging from your heartfelt defense of computer games it seems they produce a strong emotional resonance. So I guess that makes them art.
MrSquishums 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Video Games R GAME kind of like CHESS ever since PONG! Our Video Games is not a RELIGIOUS (ART) DOGMA!! >=)
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
Video games aren't art because video games don't engage in any real discourse around contemporary art.
almanacofsleep 8 months ago
for god's sake. video games are tools. the player uses the tool to make art. i didn't buy Half Life so i could pop it in my DVD player, grab some popcorn, and watch it. get over missing the point - surely not your first time.
SteamProVidz 8 months ago
I can't concentrate on what she's saying because she is so beautiful! Talk about breaking stereotypes.
okayokayokayokayboh 8 months ago
okayokayokayokayboh,
"she is so beautiful!"
I agreed that she's HOT!! >=)
Someone needs to check her out FIRST to be sure that if she's even a REAL WOMAN! Today, we have LADY GAGA pretending to be REAL WOMAN and so on! We also have REAL (anatomically correct) WOMAN that isn't into MAN at all because they have WRONG (brain wiring) SOFTWARE at birth with but RIGHT (biological body) HARDWARE!! =/
BTW, she a PROMOTER, and they R not going to do it with FAT & UGLY CHICK 4 sure!! >=P
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
okayokayokayokayboh,
"I can't concentrate on what she's saying"
Of course, U can't! Neither can I! If I can, I would drop whatever I'm doing now, holding her hand, & cuddle with her on some sandy beach while red sun set on our backdrop!! ;-)
RED is a powerful COLOR, which made HeteroSexual Men weak on our knee....
v=MXQozTxQSiE
This is WHY those Sexy WOMEN would wear their RED Lipsticks, put on their RED High Heels, & cloth themselves in RED Dress, but she did it with RED Hair!! >=)
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
um..i dont think its insulting,i think its idiotic,the two are not even in the same dimension of art...music,and videogame,might aswell compare Bruce Willis to beethoven,the two cant be compared
but nonetheless,games are art,music,the stories,the sculpting of characters,the terrain,the emotions they invoke,you cant ignore those facts:/ :this was my arguement at a different video
Janovjev 9 months ago
" Who gives a Shit what Roger thinks or for that matter U too, like the whole world is A Canvase of Life which is true Art which flows out into the world from inside all of us" I won't bother your show anymore its a waste of my time, outt'a here PEACE !
iraesemo 9 months ago
Roger Ebert, like most critics, is a self important shitsack that could never produce anything close to as artistic or creative as even the shittiest intellectual properties he criticizes. He made one obscure, poor quality, softcore porn film in the 70's. I believe that's the extent of his cultural contributions. So who the fuck cares what his pompous, old ass thinks? The constitution of artistic value is completely subjective to the observer.
dantesinporno 9 months ago
Video games might not have been art 10 years ago, but they're alot different today, at leat most of them, like GTA. That had a story and characters ect.
chevypillow247 9 months ago
gorgeous gamer :)
MrMassivemanmeat 9 months ago
I'm not much of a gamer, but I am a filmmaker and I agree with you entirely. The realisation came to me in a club recently as images from one of the Crash Bandicoot games was being projected onto the wall. I found these images every bit as striking and as much a part of the collective consciousness as such artistically important films like Metropolis or The Wizard of Oz.
Games are art.
I usually agree with him on film matters, but Ebert is wrong on this one.
ThrustClint 9 months ago
I'd make him play Ico, Shadow of The Colossus, and the Mass Effect series
highwaysonyfan87 9 months ago
art is full of loosers :D As an artist you can express yourself and dive in another world bring something which is just born in your mind to life. These people who think so have no idea.
bathory1234567890 10 months ago
I'm in love
CroGamingMachine 10 months ago
Biased video is very biased.
Makoto03 10 months ago
not a very good argument. i am a gamer, and i am still trying to come to conclusions about whether or not i think games=art....
son12509 10 months ago
show him final fantasy 8 its got a great story somwhat confusing battle system great music great characers and one emo one and great backgrounds and cgi i still don't have a clue why eyes on me dident get more attention, its better than most of the crap we listen to these days
Nintendomanic 10 months ago
Dear shegeek, you have interesting views and good arguments. However, you are so dreadfully boring, I had a problem staying awake for this video. Wake up, woman! Where is the passion? Do something to show us you care. Dear god.
parvanaturalia 11 months ago
Christopher Nolan says video games are art and even plans to do an inception game... Ebert said Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is the best Indiana Jones movie.
Quixotic1018 11 months ago
Show him Bioshock, that game is art in every sense of the word.
tuccake 11 months ago 15
tuccake,
"Show him Bioshock, that game is art in every sense of the word."
Bioshock is WUSSIFICATION or FEMINIZATION of our HARDCORE Video Games!! {roll my eyes}
I welcome more FEMALE GAMERS, but why can't FEMALE GAMERS & their GAY GAMERS have their own MARKET SEGMENT? If FILM INDUSTRY have CHICK FLICKS, why can't VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY do the same?
SEARCH & READ "Is Sex and the City gay?"
Stay the FUCK OFF our HARDCORE Video Games if U R CLUELESS on how to correctly making them!! >=(
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
@IronJackalTw what are you talking about?
tuccake 8 months ago
tuccake,
Bioshock is not TRUE kind of FPS at all! Bioshock tried to copy and to surpass System Shock 2, which is a FPS + RPG Video Game, but Bioshock FAIL at that in my book!! =/
System Shock 2 from Looking Glass Studios....
v=MXPn6wcsUmk
Here R some example of REAL Competitive FPS!! >=)
Quake 3 Arena from Id Software ....
v=gow5D03rKvY
Crysis from Crytek....
v=5ULei3VxVe8
All other ARTsy Hardcore GAMES tend to be just WANNABE & POSERS!! >=P
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
@IronJackalTw Bioshock was never mean't to be a competitive FPS, it is way more about the experience than the actual gameplay, and I am sorry if that makes it too casual for you because it is the best game that I have ever played. Also the games that you mentioned are completely different kinds of games and shouldn't be compared to Bioshock (its like comparing MK to CoD). Oh and System Shock and Bioshock were both designed by Ken Levine so nice try.
tuccake 8 months ago
tuccake,
"System Shock and Bioshock were both designed by Ken Levine"
Perhaps so, but they R not made by SAME TEAM of Looking Glass Studios! GAME DESIGNER is often CREDIT with everything but a lot of them R not worth that much SALT without their ORIGINAL SUPPORTING TEAM!! =/
If U want EXAMPLE of this, just look at Id Software of Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, & Quake from John Romero! When John Romero left Id Software to make Daikatana, look at how much DISASTER that is without John Carmack!! >=P
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
tuccake,
INNOVATIVE & ORIGINAL people worked in Looking Glass Studios....
v=TaugYown6GA
Yeah, I do missed Looking Glass Studios (Ultima Underworld, System Shock, & Thief), Black Isle (Fallout 1 and 2 & Baldur's Gate), and Bullfrog (Syndicate & Dungeon Keeper), too, because they R some of our BEST Video Game Developers of all time!! =(
SEARCH & READ "Id Software 1992 PIC"
C that! There is no I in TEAM, and that SAME TEAM from Id Software paved way 4 our Hardcore FPS ERA as well!! >=)
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
@IronJackalTw Ken Levine left looking glass with the people that helped him design System Shock 2 and founded Irrational, so again nice try.
tuccake 8 months ago
tuccake,
SEARCH & READ "Developers don't want the current-gen to end anytime soon"
Ken Levine said, "Ken levine I remember him, the dude who made empty promises to the tribes franchise and screwed it up even more then it already was releasing the emberassing game called tribes vengeance? Totally ignoring the fanbase and making whhatever he wanted in order to sell more then failing to even sell to the fans."
Ken Levine is a NOBODY compared to John Romero!! >=P
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
@IronJackalTw This is a stupid argument, I love Bioshock and think that Ken Levine is a genius, I really don't care if you don't agree with me.
tuccake 8 months ago
tuccake,
Ken Levine is SNAKE OIL SALESMAN kind of like U!! {roll my eyes}
SEARCH & READ "Ken Levine + X-Com = ???"
Tbird said, "How hard is it for these developers to realize people just want the classic X-Com experience but with updated graphics? All games other than UFO defense and TFTD have tried to reinvent the wheel by making it RTS or whatever. All they have to do is remake the same fucking game but with modern graphics."
Ken Levine needs to hand off on our OLD Video Games!! >=(
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
tuccake,
Ken Levine milk MONEY off NOSTALGIA of our Well-Made OLD Games! He should be BLACK LIST to our Hardcore GAMERS!! >=(
John Romero actually have TALENT as a DESIGNER! After he left Id Software, Quake 2 & onward is more DRY and MECHANICAL! He had DESIGN QUALITY that is like Tomonobu Itagaki, Shinji Mikami, and so on! His problem is that he isn't good with manage MONEY, and he had bias against CODERS like an Overly ARTistic ARSE that he is! He was doing FINE under Id Software!! =/
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
@IronJackalTw Again I dont care if you don't like him or not, I do. And if you like Quake better than Bioshock I really dont know what to say to you.
tuccake 8 months ago
tuccake,
"if you like Quake better than Bioshock"
I like any GREAT DEVELOPERS over your 3rd rated DEVELOPERS with PROFESSIONAL LIARS to back them up instead of show us their REAL GAME MAKING SKILLS!! >=P
Ken Levine is a FILTHY JEW! He had NO TALENT other than taking CREDIT of others!! >=(
System Shock 2 is WORK of Doug Church!! >=)
SEARCH & READ "Doug Church Wiki"
TELL THE TRUTH....
v=0kjL2KKil20
I look foward to days when Ken Levine would stop FUCK UP our HARDCORE Video Games!! >=)
IronJackalTw 8 months ago
@IronJackalTw Your grammar is so bad that I don't know if I can respond anymore. The bottom line is I love Bioshock and I don't have time for this anymore, please sir get a life. If Bioshock is too "casual" for you then just don't play it.
tuccake 8 months ago
@tuccake You really shouldn't hate someone for liking a game from a completely different genre, bioshock is an rpg, quake is an arena shooter, both are quite good games.
Now ken levine did claim wrongful credit for SS2 and did steal alot of concepts and features from other games in bioshock, and he did make the game more casual to appeal to a wider audience, The game would have probably been alot better without him being involved with it ,Everyone is entitled to an opnion but you cant dent fact.
nefets99 8 months ago
Again I don't care what you or anyone thinks, this argument is stupid.
tuccake 8 months ago
@tuccake If that were true, you would have fucked of ten comments ago.
nefets99 8 months ago
@nefets99 Yeah you're right I do care, I was kidding.
tuccake 8 months ago
Comment removed
Charliem1994 7 months ago
@tuccake or mgs4 or silent hill 1 2 3 4 5 or any final fantasy
iloveff96 6 months ago
@tuccake You should look up the definition of art, I'm afraid you're not familiar.
chrislgrooms 5 months ago
1. The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
2. Works produced by such skill and imagination.
There is the definition. Tell me how Bioshock or any game doesn't apply?
tuccake 5 months ago
Shadow of the Colossus, basically wordless, had me more emotional than many movies I've seen. I'm not even going to go into detail, but it was incredible.
WhySoSerious998 11 months ago
you can lose a game too, and not in the literal sense. alot of video games have soul crushingly depressing endings. in a story sense, you can still lose at a video game.
pyramidheadkitten9 11 months ago
movies are watched, books are read, games are played. all of it is experiecing. and its all art.
gooddarkjedi 11 months ago