These comments are dumb at best. you can't have a gospel principle with muhammud. he never claimed to be God and king. Do your research on the word gospel in the greek before you throw it around like a fool. Second, Jesus is Christianity, maybe you got a bad deal by some christian but to say Jesus doesn't approve of himself is stupid. every so called religion is just your classic "do good things and maybe you will get somewhere better." Christianity's claims are at least absolute.
@djm31591 I cannot believe how ridiculous your response is! I never for a moment suggested or implied that Muhammad claimed to be God. I was simply saying that it is a principle of Jesus and common sense that you shall know them by their fruit. If the fruit is good then the tree is good. Yes? That is clearly Jesus' teaching. But the fruit of Islam has been good (at least as good as Christianity) so does that not imply that the tree is also good?!
So, according to Mr Piper, it is only Christians who believe in and worship the true God. I think this is substantially problematic though. What of the belief and worship of the Jews before the Advent of Christ? Clearly, they did not honour Jesus because they didn't know Christ. What of the 'Gospel' principle of "You shall know them by their fruit". If this is applied to Prophet Muhammad and the Muslim Saints, then you'd have to say that they worship the true God.
@bayreuth79 Yeah, Islamics treat their woman like animals because Islamic doctrine is they don't have souls. It's a religion of violence and oppression towards women. Nice fruit.
@killerproctologist88 What?! Are you being serious? Before Muhammad died he instructed the Muslims to remember the salah (prayer) and to be kind to women. I have spent several years studying Islam and I can assure you that it is not a doctrine of Islam that women don't have souls! That is the most extreme nonsense I have ever heard from an Islamaphobe!
@bayreuth79 I'm not an "Islmaphobe" thank you very little. Qur'an (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176). In Islam, sexism is mathematically established. Women are treated very poorly in Islamic countries because of this verse and others like it. Bad fruit.
@killerproctologist88 There are reasons why the male should have a greater inheritance than the female, especially in the context of 6th century Arabia. If Islam is sexist why is it that muslim women were given "rights" in the 6th century denied to women in the West until the end of the 19th century? Why is it that from the earliest centuries there were female muslim scholars when women in the West were confined to the house or convent? And please distinguish between Islam & Muslims!
@bayreuth79 Islam: the meaning comes from the Arabic verbal noun (like a gerund) s-l-m. When appropriate vowel markers are added the word Islam appears. The etymology of s-l-m is to submit, accept, or surrender. From this comes Islam’s conventional definition of surrender to God.
@bayreuth79 Muslim : also has its roots in the s-l-m verb. It is a participle of the verb and refers to a person who engages in the act of submission, acceptance, or surrender. Therefore a Muslim is a person who submits to the will of God, or a follower of Islam.
@bayreuth79 So, a Muslim is someone that follows Islam. Women in the west mostly stayed at home because it worked better that way. That does not mean that women were belittled as they are in Islamic cultures. This is probably why...Don't pray if you are drunk, dirty, or have touched a woman lately. 4:43. A husband can accuse his wife of adultery with only one witness. 24:6.
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly)
@bayreuth79 Allah gives Muslims permission to beat their wives if they aren't obedient to their husbands. A curious doctrine considering some have said Islam is a "religion of peace." If it was a religion of peace, why is it that in ancient times their methods of converting people was, if you don't accept Allah as God, you get your head cut off? Ever think about that one?
@killerproctologist88 You really are misrepresenting Islam. I'm afriad you are wrong- history tells us that when the muslims conquered a particular land the conquered populace had the choice of remaining within their own religion, for which they had to pay a tax (just as the muslims had to pay the zakat), or conversion to Islam. Look at Muslim Spain (Al-Andalus): the Jews and Christians coexisted in relative peace under Muslim rule for centuries. However, the Muslims were slaughtered in 1492
@bayreuth79 Muslims invaded india and killed millions of innocent hindus and budhists. Some of the muslim kings accepted the gifts of hindus and let them surrender but their religious fundamentalists finally forced them to kill saying “Quran COMMANDS us to KILL non-belivers”. You live in a fairy tale my friend. Islam is wicked.
@killerproctologist88 ... when the Catholics reconquered Al-Andalus. This is known as the Reconquista. Not only were the Muslims put to the sword but the Jews as well. So, let us not have any sanctimonious nonsense about Islam being a religion of violence.
You need to ask yourself why so many women are converting to Islam in the Western world? I mean intelligent, informed women.
@bayreuth79 What about Jihad? What about Hassan-i Sabbah? What about the endless oppression and bloodshed that occurs in Islamic countries? You can't ignore the history, and current state of violence in Islamic countries with no end in sight! Through a family friend who's a friend of a missionary says an 8 year old boy he converted to Christianity in Africa was shot and killed by a Muslim for saying "Jesus is God" and not your Muhammad.
God is the same yes, but the problem is man wrote most of the bible and that is why it has so many contradictions and problems. John Piper is just another lost christian. Jesus does not approve of christianity at all.
I would love to ask John who wrote the gospels....he quotes two books that he doesn't even know who wrote...but is the basis for his belief. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
I would love to ask John who wrote the gospels....he quotes to boos that he doesn't even know who wrote...but is the basis for his belief. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
Somebody better tell John that there are 10,000 religions in the world with incompatible teachings many of which are willing to die for their faith. I'm glad to know that he has the true religion. I was a christian most all my life and finally woke up. My family who are fundamentalists make fun of humanism.....sad
Ever notice how few Muslims involve themselves with the endless debate which is promoted in these (or any other) video? As a Muslim, my only obligations are to respect other peoples religions in a kind manner AND to inform them of the TRUTH given in the Qu'ran. With that said, I invite anyone with an interest to explore the final revelation to mankind given over a 23 year period to our Prophet(SAW) - Please don't say you had no idea or that no one ever told you. O.K.?
Piper is so full of crap-or he is just intellectually dishonest by not mentioning the Jews-the NT that the Prots are so fond of telling us they follow (Scripture Alone, you papist fools!) is just loaded with Jesus, the Scribes and the Pharisees attacking each other.
@RPenta Yes, but that's just because the Talmud foretold of the coming of Christ...it didn't deny Christ's coming. The Talmud and the New Testament are on the same page...same God.
Definition of refute: to prove to be false. I think you like that word?
Well i refute "a child's wisdom.." because i am older than a childer, meaning i have more wisdom (accumulated philosophic and scientific learning) than a child. Yet i am younger than you, and you have not demolished my thoughts one bit.
Sorry, but you look at things so far away that you do not see what is actually going on. You are like a person that tries to read a menu from outside the building, you dont fully understand
Arguing about death and such is not meaningful in my opinion. "Contradictions" ..blah blah. Thats probably your favorite term huh? Actually prove a point. Dont use the "absence" of things (in reality; your personal blindness to God) to "refute" things. You say "OH contradictions!!...life after non-life?!" ..but.. "i believe we go back to the stars, but give no evidence to support the statement." I believe in what Jesus talked about, not my own limited knowledge. Since Jesus is risen, its valid
Using the term contradiction are we? First off, begin to study what "life after death means." Obviously people dont die physically just to live again physically; but rather the soul and character which you also have, lives on spiritually, it just depends where it dwells after the physical death. Secondly, you say you dont share the same beliefs as christians, yet you pretend to know the character of God...?? : contradiction. The God of the bible proved his love through Jesus. allah, buddha didnt
Maybe the more interesting question then, is do jews worship the same god as christians? Jews worship yahweh, the god of the old testament, which is also the god that christians woship. Is the assertion that because jews do not accept christ as the messiah, that they are actually worshiping a different god?
In the beginning there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing, until nothing exploded, and created everything. Then, the nothing that became everything magically rearranged itself for no reason into self-replicating complex life forms, that became intelligent beings that believed in God. Makes perfect sense. LOL.
@StrumstickJoe We dont return to the stars.We return to One true God or we go to hell.All other religions are naturalistic kind of unite with nature,reincarnation nonsence.We are sinfull,we are desperate for a saviour.
Jesus is the way.By his blood those who are in him,are made just and clean from sin.Those who reject Jesus,reject God the father and are trown in to hell.Tell me if you are fallen angel and want to drag someone to hell with you would you not make false religions to deceive people
@DirtyABirdy Sorry to say - though I must say it - your words are nonsense based on Iron Age myths which only had relevance in those times because they were the only explanation for natural events. Those people had no knowledge of tectonics, biology, meteorology et al. We do, and therefore we have no excuse for retaining the beliefs. In fact, they are a danger to us: religion has left a trail of blood across the world, and those who believe in an afterlife are careless of this (the only) one.
@StrumstickJoe "Those people foretold today times ,that in the very last days before return of Jesus unbelivers will ridicule Gods testimony and will supres the truth of Gods eternal word,because of following their earthly passions and because of bitternes of their faliures.Quote from bible- But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 they said to you, "In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions."
@DirtyABirdy Why would you quote the bible at me? It makes no sense to do that, since I don't believe a single word of it. Look at what you are saying; it is all without reason or any basis at all except a very contradictory and plagarised anthology of mythology. It has no truth. It is the reverse of what you think.
Just live a good life for others, that satisfies you with its honesty.
I wish you well; I wish you truth, and I wish you freedom
..."scoffers, following their own ungodly passions."
@StrumstickJoe I wish you well; I wish you truth, and I wish you freedom too but from sin and death.Lord is calling you, maybe now try this messages.Dont ignore Him.Peace
Just because you dont believe something to be true, doesn't make it un-true. Do you honestly think that the bible has no truth? Jesus was a historical real person. Argue his existence with non-christian and christian scholars alike and come to find out that he was real....therefore; the bible has some truth; therefore YOU are wrong in saying the bible has no truth. How do you support your claim? You act as if what you say is truth, but you are ignorant to facts of history
@marshallbx5a I honestly believe that the bible is based on a complete mish-mash of myths with some references to real places and kingdoms. But there is certainly no evidence of David, Jesus, or god. Certainly the talking snake episode (eden) is a misplaced allegory.
Even if the hearsay about a JC figure is based on a real person (v.doubtful), then you still have a mountain of work to do to prove divinity.
(I do not have to "support" a claim of non-existence - that is an absurd request.)
How is it an absurd request? If you so believe that you're right and what you believe is true, then wouldn't you want to share truth with those who don't know it? I want to know where you get your info. Im assuming that you dont believe in history either. Like the war of 1812 never happened either right? WW1 was just a myth?
@marshallbx5a I want so much to share my truth. I’m expressing knowledge that certain things aren’t true because a) there is no record of them & b) belief would require faith in the supernatural. It is absurd to ask me to “prove” a negative. My truth is that there is nothing out there. “I’m assuming that you don’t believe in history either..”
“History (n) continuous methodical record of public events.” OED
Yes, I believe in history. I don’t know what made you think otherwise
"No record of them." Did you know that there are more accurate, historical manuscripts for the New Testament than for all other ancient philosophers that America hold to so dearly? Ex.-Plato, Sacrotes. Type in "manuscript evidence" in google and click the second link to see that. Read ancient HISTORICAL, non-christian historians writings about Jesus. They didnt like religion, they just wrote facts, but they still recorded Jesus as a person in their writings. Do you realize that?
To expound on the evidence aspect; you would have to disregard all other philosopher's ancient (real and historical) writings as in-accurate and poorly preserved, if you were to say that the New Testament (which records the life of Jesus) was false. If the NT is false, then every other recorded event in history is false as well. The NT (Matt-Rev) has aver 5,600 greek copies preserved and 99.5% accurate to the bible we have today. Basically you are saying that everything that has
@marshallbx5a 2) …Very little in the bible is original, there are huge contradictions. Christianity is a club of the willfully ignorant. Your Bible is proof of its failure. It fails morally by sanctioning genocide, celebrating infanticide and tolerating slavery. It fails logically with self-contradiction and historical inaccuracies. Wake up and face the fact that there is not one iota of proof your fantasy is real. Citing anecdote and delusions as proof is pathetic.
...been written in history is un-reliable. There is more translated and recorded copies of the New Testament than there are for Napoleon's life, yet we believe that he existed today. I mean, where do you get your info? There are over 25,000 historical archeological sites from the bible confirmed today. How much "proof" do you need? Like what is your real arguement? Surely you haven't read every history, archeolgy, philosphy book in barnes and nobles have you? Do some research!
Ps-sorry to write so much, but also, "your truth" about life after death means nothing. The reason that Christians believe in life after death is because Jesus talked about it, and since Jesus claimed to be (and was) God on earth...they sort of listened to him. So unless you think you are God, and have power to back up your omnipotence, your "truth" isn't truth at all, its deception. Put your faith in power and truth, not in opinions and preferences.
@marshallbx5a 1) If you think about it, you’re asking me to consult writings that were non-religious in order that I might believe in jesus – you’re saying that if the gospels won’t convince me (you’re right there!) then I should look up some writers who knew about him, wrote about him, but didn’t believe in his divinity.
The Mithra myth is a story which the JC story echoes in fine detail, and it was supposed to have been written many years before…
PS "Life after death" is, in case you hadn't noticed, a contradiction in terms. To believe in it requires trust in magic. The universe is wonderful, diverse and complex - but it is not magic.
If there was a god - why is he so elusive? Is he playing tricks (like a poltergeist)?
Why would you suggest I think I'm god? that's a bit insulting, your god is vindictive, murderous, racist, and mad - fundamentally based on the worst of human weaknesses!
@StrumstickJoe Just because something isn't material or in the universe doesn't mean it can't be true. Is God elusive? In some ways I think he is. But that could be due to our self centeredness. How much energy do you spend trying to learn about this elusive God, or do you just argue against him? There are a lot of good books you can read. I'm reading a book called The Reason for God by Timothy Keller and I really enjoy it.
@1truth55 God could be elusive in the same way that ghosts and poltergeists and the spirits of our ancestors are elusive - because they don't exist. In which case, why would you try to learn about them? You are trying to learn about something in order to prove its existence, which means you have to assume its existence first.
"Self-centredness" (funny you should happen upon that!) is precisely what leads humans to the gods in the first place - "all this must have been designed for us"
@StrumstickJoe I'm open to evidence, I also read Richard Dawkins book The Greatest Show on Earh: the Evidence for Evolution. So I don't think I'm unbalanced in my quest to learn about God.
What I mean by self centeredness is this: we often ignore any evidence that gets in the way of our desires. If we believe the Bible, our lives have to change. So self-centeredness can keep us from coming to God.
@1truth55 B) …both in terms of massive contradictions, and huge lapses of morality. It is the excuse for extremism, for a lot of them have and will kill and die for it. If we are good people, then our lives do not “have to change” and it would be wrong for that to happen. I have a wish to get the human race out of this dependence on a vindictive and threatening imaginary friend, and leave the world a better place.
@1truth55 A) You said: “…in my quest to learn about God.” Which presupposes the existence of that entity – and is therefore unbalanced, contrary to what you claimed. You need to start from outside of that faith. What I mean by self-centredness is this: the religions always ignore any evidence that is outside their texts and their comfort. What I am trying to put across is that the bible is self-evidently wrong,…
@StrumstickJoe Where do you get your thoughts on the Bible? Just from reading it or have you read Hitchens or Dawkins or someone? Have you ever read I christian author's book about the Bible?
@1truth55 I read my posts again before replying. I don't see any problem with what I said. I have read a fair bit of the bible (though any single page illustrates most of what I've ever said)
I want religions to achieve their rightful place, which is in the margins alongside astrology, druidism, mormonism and scientology, where they can do less harm to the human race.
It's the biggest evil there is and if people believe this Piper trash (listen to it!!) then we are in danger from them.
@StrumstickJoe I don't think Piper's view of life is evil whether he's right or not. Some who hold back people from rational thinking in the name of the Bible I would almost categorize as evil, but I don't think Piper is like that. How much stuff have you heard from Piper, just a view videos or have you listened to any of his sermons or anything? I've listened to a couple hundred of his sermons and I think they are very rational and point people toward the truth.
@1truth55 I haven't listened to several hundred of his sermons (I don't think the world needs preachers.) But if they are all as illogical as this one, then.... (I honestly can't believe how this man thinks he is speaking any sense at all - it's appalling!!)
Piper is one of many charlatans who feed well off the gullible.
The world will move on too slow if religion is allowed to continue.
I would say that the biggest "contradiction" in people who deny the God of the Bible and Jesus as Lord, is that they try to use God to contradict Himself, yet say they do not believe in Him. That is like saying to a woman, "I absolutely hate you with all of my heart, you are ugly in appearance, and disgusting at heart...but i want you to marry me." You cant take these so called "attributes" of God yet discard the other ones, like, a big one; his SOVEREIGN will.
I challenge you to this. If you took a hugely important attribute of God and applied it to the Bible, your mind and heart would probably be changed, even just a little bit. God is GOD. He is the BIG DOG. HE does whatever he wants whenever he wants. If some nut-jobs thought they could take over God's people's promised land, sure, as God, wipe em out. Humans don't command God, He is in charge. YET, as dumb as we are, He sent Jesus to atone for our stupidity and sins and forgive us.
@marshallbx5a 3. If he does whatever he wants, why doesn’t he want to prevent the slaughter and starvation of innocents (8m children a year!)? Why did he create us so dumb that we can’t even prove he exists, and so sinful that we need saving? It’s all nonsense! And my only wish is that we can get ourselves out of this stupidity.
Haha. Man, you sure like "pointing out people's contradictions or their illogical reasonings" but you dont think before you write yourself. All of the knowledge that i have about the God of the Bible, comes from the Bible. But it seems that you have hundreds of questions about the Bible, but you aren't willing to answer them yourselves so you spend much time on youtube to rhetorically ask them. Answer these ?s first: "Was Jesus God on earth? If so were do i want to go when i die?
I cant answer that question for you. Sorry. I cant because, for one, i am not God and i do not know his plan for mankind. And two, ive never read a verse in the bible that says "i let people die because ..etc." All i can tell you that ive read this: "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very reason I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you." -Romans 9:17a God killed Pharaoh in the Red Sea after he didn't free God's people from bondage.
@marshallbx5a 03) thing. There is no remaining consciousness. Thankfully, heaven is an imaginary place – it would be total hell if it existed.
The prophecies were made by fanatical witch doctors. Stories were then written which “fulfilled” the prophecies. Surprise!
Can you believe what you read in the tabloids today? Neither can I, yet you put your faith in the ramblings of brutal, primitive superstitious mythmakers of 2000 yrs ago.
@marshallbx5a 02) When you use “blah blah” against an opponent, it means you are losing.
Was jesus god on earth? No. Absolutely not; nothing that the stories say he did indicate divinity. Nothing is left of his assumed presence; the “miracles” left no trace.
When you die “you” go to a funeral. Where you might WANT to go is a different
@marshallbx5a 01) If you quote the bible at me, what are you achieving?
A child’s wisdom would demolish your thoughts and opinions: “I believe in god because it’s what god said”
I understand why “contradictions” is a bad word for you; if you study the bile you will find so many, and that would shake your faith. (sorry – bible!)
Everything you say is based around the supposition that there is a god.
Ignorance. I am achieving something you know not how to do. Quoting sources. Giving a back up for what i believe. And having validty in my sources. Not pulling it out of thin air, or out of petty youtube videos or hollywood movies. Where do your opinions gain power and truth? Why is it that you cannot persuade someone to come along side you and believe that you will "return to the stars?" Because there is no truth or reality in what you say. But there is truth in Jesus' name.
@marshallbx5a The bible is valid because it says it is valid..? The bible backs up itself..? You think you quote convincing sources by quoting the bible..? (You will find that reading the whole bible (and thinking about it without prejudice) destroys judaism and christianiy completely, by self-ridicule.)
Death is oblivion, (which is OK once you get the idea - same for everyone), and one day the earth will be consumed, by the sun or Andromeda, and our substance will be scattered in the stars.
Your argument of the bible's validity, is valid because you say its valid? Are you a renowned historian? Who cares what you think about the bible's validity?
You, yourself, are using the Bible to make it invalid, by saying the Bible is invalid, because the Bible contradicts itself. Do you realize that.
History backs up what i know about the Bible; archeology, manuscripts.
You say "the bible is invalid because the bible destroys itself."
What i mean by that is; that you think you see contradictions and then you stop there. Have you ever tried to "solve" the "contradictions?" Have you ever investigated the past culture of the Jews and so forth? Have you ever read the whole bible? I do not know how much you investigated your questions and tried to solve them, rather than leaving them "cold case files."
I am grateful however, because there is much more evidence for Jesus than for "going back to the stars."
@marshallbx5a Though you be older than a child, my Son, yet you show no more wisdom or curiosity in your mind. You believe in magic like a trusting child believes in santa, when he is told of it by those he believes in. He can't understand that the logistics of the santa story don't make sense.
You cant understand that I am entitled to doubt your magical view of the universe, because there is no evidence of it.
"It must be true!" you cry, "or my life is all in vain!"
Is that where it ends up? Trying to attack my character now? I thought we were debating beliefs?
Its not magical, its supernatural. Beyond our finite minds.
Is it wrong to believe in something someone says, if its true? As a child. Mom said "Dont touch the stove you'll get burned." Why mom? "Bcuz mom has done it herself." How do you know it'll happen to me? "You just have to trust mom." It didn't matter if you listened to her or if you touched the stove, mom spoke truth.
@marshallbx5a 2) We are debating beliefs, your belief in reports of magical/supernatural (semantics!) by primitive, superstitious people who lived in a brutal time.
I am just saying that these things didn’t happen (I would never say JC was real!) The bible is real, and belief in it is responsible for a lot of the ills in the world today. The Koran has a lot to answer for too.
As for who cares what I think – well, I do, and it seems to be exercising you somewhat, as well!
You keep claiming that it was superstitious, but you have no ancient records to verify your claims; rather you have hundreds of ancient eyewitness to refute your claim. Do you know why there are so many man-made "gods" in the world? Because, if no one ever see's your god, then they can never refute it. But since Jesus was a real person who claimed to be God, ppl really saw him and his miracles, they faced a huge problem; accept him as Lord God and savior or not? Still a ? today
Hopefully you actually ask yourself these questions.
Why is it that Jesus is the most debated person in history? Why is it that the Bible is always being attacked? Why can we burn the Bible but not the Quran? Why do we always seek to prove the Bible false but not the Quran? Is it because Jesus claimed to be the only truth, when Muhammad and Siddartha never claimed that? Is it because 40 authors compiled the bible we have today, when only muhammad (1 author) wrote the quran?
@marshallbx5a 3) Number of authors doesn’t indicate anything. The bible is always being attacked because it’s immoral and it self-claims to be true. Burning either of them doesn’t mean anything to me. But we must marginalize the believers, and make the world peaceful.
Come on! Let's move on from this stuff! It serves no good purpose.
Just in case you are delusional, or you are just deceived by a great deceiver who wil do anything to have you understand the Christ, i will say this:
Almost everything you've said, has been out of ignorance (being unaware of) what has happened in the past. You yourself admit to have no sources to claim your "truths" and those after you will never receive your "truths" because they arent truth. Christ is the reason why hungry are feed, naked are clothed, and lives are forgiven
@StrumstickJoe Hindus would rather keep their "truth" a secret a hide out in the forest of the mountains and meditate, muslims are willing to hide other faiths from their children so "they dont hear the lies," mormans say they believe in Christ as savior, but they incorporate "the pearl of great price." Many other religions boast great things, but act little. Christ is the only one who values woman, poor, orphans, homeless, etc. He is the only one who practiced what he preached. He died for it
Lastly, before i go. I pray that you come to know Jesus Christ as your Savior, and that you come to understand that you actually need one. That the God of all the known, and unknown (by man) universe, is just and righteous, and you and i are not worthy of being in his presence, because he is perfect and we aren't. Understand that "it serves no good" is exactly what you are doing. Your written words on youtube do not feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. Jesus is hope, you arent
@marshallbx5a If you pray for me, then a) it is unwanted and unnecessary, and b) it won't work, like every other prayer of the trillions that are blurted every day.
Sadly, its time for me to stop. Its your choice to sit on your butt and fight over truth, or you can look it up someday for yourself. You act like you know truth, but if you really knew truth, you wouldn't be wasting your time, looking for ppl to debate on utube. I was watching a video for encouragement, but ppl like you always have to shout lies.
Ps-Muhammed claimed truth, but never did miracles, and never died for what he himself preached, but JC, however did.
@marshallbx5a People need blood for their beliefs, especially christians and moslems. I don't need saving. In fact, my reason for debate is to make the world a freer, safer place.
I have fed and clothed more poor than your "saviour" ever did just by giving.
You are a hypocrite to ignore the 8 million children who die needlessly every year, and the abject misery that your god and saviour have left most of the world in.
Strange how you reverse truth. It is you are delusional, and talk to ghosts.
Yes, seriously. Because he did none of course, because his is fictitious.
But here's a little quote from your jc:
Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple."
Most of the things he says in the stories are bizarre and contradictory. Were he a real person he would be locked up!
@StrumstickJoe You quoted one of my best liked scriptures. I don't know what point you mean to make from it though. The true gospel is that unless one desires Christ more than anything else in this life, they will not see the kingdom of God.
I would love for you to quote me ONE contradictory story that He has told. I agree that they are bizarre.They are unintelligent. They are offensive, Such is the message of the cross to the world, but "to us who believe, it is the power of God"(1Cor. 1:18).
@okorewq Because 'he' was hellfire lunatic (first in the bible to mention hell, I think ,though, of course, like jc himself and all the other stuff, it was plagarised from existing myths)
If that's your favourite bit, you are in trouble - and it worries me that people can devalue this life as much as that.
The cross is an instrument of torture - your fantasies are steeped in blood.
Don't quote the bible to me, I don't believe a single word of it, it's immoral and repulsive.
@StrumstickJoe You quoted me Luke 14:26, but can't stand me quoting the same Bible to explain Bible faith! Remarkable.
"Hell and jc was plagiarised from existing myths" THEREFORE he should be locked up. If you value life so much, you should care for justice. You can take comfort in knowing He was crucified for those "myths". The cross as an instrument of torture and my "fantasies" being rooted in blood is truth. He was tortured, and my hope is because He died. You are not far from the gospel.
@okorewq I'm allowed to quote it to prove its failings - you are welcome to quote it as long as you realise you are doing the same! I advise you not to if you think you are going to achieve a conversion.
! said "would" be locked up.
I care for justice. I want the 22,000 children under 5 who will die today in agony of neglect to be given food and water and homes.
@okorewq Here's some more favourite bits for you to study!
This is just a sample of the words of wisdom and morality you can find in your book: Deut 25:11-12 Genesis 38:8-10 Deut 21:18-21 Ex 35:2 Lev 20:13 Isaiah 13:13-16 Exodus 21:20-21 1 Tim 2:11-12 Col 3:22-23 Luke 14:26 Deut 22:13-21 Isaiah 40:8
Now try explaining.
Don't just believe the stuff that fits your view of the world - that is deceitful.
@StrumstickJoe So I can only quote the Bible if I agree with what you think it's saying, though you consider that it's absolute myth? I read all the scriptures you quoted above, and I didn't find anything I didn't know before. If you are patient with me I could explain why all of what you quoted is the word of God, true, holy and infallible. Shame there is not enough space here. God is holy and He is love. You and I love humanity, so we hate war. I love children, so I hate abortion (To continue
@StrumstickJoe; We love health, so we hate disease. We love justice, so we hate injustice. Similarly, God loves good, so he hates bad. He loves right and holy, so He hates sin and unholiness. If (God forbid) some maniac slaughtered one of your family, and when you dragged him/her to court, they proved that he was guilty, but the judge being very "loving and kind" said this thug gets away Scott free, you would rightfully call the judge evil and unjust. You would consider the judge (to continue
@okorewq No. you can quote the bible all you want, but it will only confirm its failings.
I think there was too much hate in your posts. Very little point to the emotions of hate or anger (unless, I suppose, it spurs someone to do something productive) and that is one factor in the doubt of your god. Wrath is a sign of human weakness, we are angry when we cannot control circumstances - so why would an omnipotent god be angry? It makes no sense at all.
@StrumstickJoe When I talk about His love, you point out 12 verses to show God as not so loving, and when I talk about His wrath, my posts are full of hate? And I do not know why you think God has to conform to your theory that if He is wroth He is weak. As I said He is wroth at wrong, because He loves right.
Anyways, cheers to you. We believe differently but our exchange has been largely civil. I hope that I'll see you in the kingdom of God when Christ is revealed. (Now that's not hate, hahaha)
@okorewq I abbreviated: your posts were full of the word "hate", and I do not necessarily think that is the right emotion for dealing with problems.
It might not be the right word, either: I have a bone condition, but it don't "hate" it, I treat it and try to manage it - any hate would be a wasted emotion.
Similarly guilt, christians adopt guilt and then need jc to rescue them. I don't see why they adopt it at all.
@StrumstickJoe I should also applaud you on your work for humanity. I come from a poor village in Uganda and I understand the reality of poverty and disease more than most. There are many people all over the world who have sacrificed the comforts of their home countries to help the cause of poorer people like in my country. I also am heart broken at the pain in the world, children killed in cold blood in civil wars etc. It's my earnest hope that I am as useful to humanity as I perceive you are.
@StrumstickJoe ...to be just as bad as the thug. A just righteous judge must punish wrong. God is good, therefore He hates bad. He is a just judge, therefore He must punish evil. You may say "It's a travesty that babies are killed, men stoned..." But that's YOUR standard of right and wrong. God who does all right and never any evil must hold a tighter standard for justice. He gives mercy though, through Christ Jesus, so we are spared from our justified judgment for all have sinned (Romans.3:23)
@StrumstickJoe And He was more than locked up. He was crucified. But would you care to tell us His crimes why you think He would (should) be locked up?
@marshallbx5a 1) I can’t quote to you one source, ancient or modern, that says ANY one particular person from that era did NOT exist. I’ll say one more time to you, it is the believer who needs the evidence – what do I need evidence for? You really don’t get that, do you?
Humans have superstitions – they still read horoscopes and touch wood and follow faiths – they will always be superstitious.
@marshallbx5a 1) I can say, without insulting your character that: “The Word became flesh. God became man. Jesus was God on earth.”
Is nonsense.
I am allowed to quote the bible to illustrate its nonsensical qualities – you are ill-advised to quote it because a) you are also showing it up and b) I don’t believe it, not a word of it, so why are you doing it? It fails to move me.
Wow, i didnt know that you were there when Jesus existed? That you know better than the hundreds of eyewitness that saw Jesus risen?
How do you know its nonsense? Quote to me, now focus intently on my words, one, ANCIENT source saying that Jesus of Nazareth, who people claimed to be the Christ, never existed. You put so much faith in modern sources, and in ppl who were never there, rather than the ppl who were actually there.
@marshallbx5a Sorry to come back - but I just realised you haven't been listening!!
You said..."there is much more evidence for Jesus than for "going back to the stars."
But I already told you,
"Was jesus god on earth? No. Absolutely not; nothing that the stories say he did indicate divinity. Nothing is left of his assumed presence; the “miracles” left no trace."
That is a different debate all together. Now you are saying Jesus was real? Where is your foundation?
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God." -John 1:1 "And the Word (with and WAS God) became FLESH and dwelt among us." -John 1:14
The Word (God), became FLESH.
Who is the one not paying attention? I didnt read 100 books to figure that out. I read 14 verses in the bible. The Word became flesh. God became man. Jesus was God on earth.
Respond to this video... 2. I wouldn’t pretend to know the character of a god-entity I do not believe exists - that would be absurd. And if I believe JC didn’t exist, why would I believe the preposterous proposition that he came to save us? I never did get that. I don’t get your simile, either.
@marshallbx5a 1. Yes, contradiction; life and death are obviously opposite, and one terminates the other. So you must mean another “life” by which you can only be pleading for the existence of a soul. I refute that. The mind relies on physical existence; nothing survives the end of that. There is no soul. There is a huge contradiction in your post concerning first the “love” shown by this entity; then his wiping-out of nutjobs (which were his creations with preordained lives!!)
BECAUSE jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies, did miracles, and rose from the dead and defeated death (because according to the bible death is a penalty because of sin, and he conquered sin)..i believe He was the Son of God. If he was God, then surely his words and wisdom demolish my own thoughts and opinions. I believe in what i "believe in" because its what God said. You believe in what you believe in because YOU think so. How valid and powerful are YOUR opinions?! They aren't!
@StrumstickJoe But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 they said to you, "In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions." 19 It is these who set up divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.
@adamskibobs 2) 99% of all the species who have ever lived on earth (including the “homo” species) have become extinct. Homo sapiens only just survived the migration out of Africa following climate change. What kind of planned creation is this? Your god also thought up hammerhead sharks (?) and a fungus that grows exclusively in an ant’s brain, killing it, then growing out a tendril to entrap the next passing ant… etc. Evolution can explain these things, but your god, what’s his excuse…?
Thank you Mr. Piper those were insightful points.In addition, Allah is NOT the same God because his attributes substantively vary w/the character & actions of the God of the Bible. The clearest example of this includes God appearing to Abraham and fellowshiping with him. Also,Creator God appearing to Moses in the burning bush; & the Son of Man appearing with the Hebrew boys in the fiery furnace. In Islam, allah NEVER interacts with nor enters his creation; Islam considers that to be blaspemy!
Jesus is Lord,died for our sins risen from the dead.All other religions are controled by demons or fallen angels and all of them lead to hell .period.
@marshallbx5a The matter which composes us; all life; the world and the planets of the solar system was made in the fusion reactions in stars. We return to the earth as biomass, and one day the earth will be consumed (either by the expanding sun, or by collision with the Andromeda galaxy) and the whole of the earth will be smashed asunder, and every molecule will be returned to the stars.
The answer to the question posed by this video is "Yes"
Both gods are the delusions of people who still believe Iron Age mythology.
It is ridiculous to hear grown men discussing magical happenings as if they have happened, and a mythological dead person as if he ever walked the earth and performed spells!
Think about freeing yourself from it. It's nonsense.
You're not born evil, take credit for what you achieve, and keep smiling '-)
this was informative & helpful discussion;.I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more aggressive claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general atheistic social perspectives
I was into The new age and believed that all religions were just different ways to the same God, with Jesus being my personal favourite. :) I was brought into line in 2009 by God's holy angels supernaturally and outside of all human concerns. They lead me straight to to JESUS CHRIST through THE HOLY BIBLE and I have never looked back at the world in the same way as before and never will again. My eyes were opened to a world of religions that worship fallen angels as gods.
@baskuk The god of Islam comes bearing a sword. The God of Christianity comes bearing a shepherds staff.
How arrogant it would be to say we are worthy to be called sons of God in relative context compared to Jesus the Son of God. We were unworthy of Gods presence the day we were born. Jesus Christ was the final atoning sacrifice, putting our unrighteousness to death, and rose from the dead to bring us life; making a way for us to walk in righteousness, by the grace of God through His Son, Jesus
Every religion is wrong because they don't believe in what my book says. That's his argument?
How could you possibly have an intellectual conversation with someone like this?
"Everyone is wrong because I know my 2,000 year old book holds the secrets to everything in the Universe, you cannot convince me otherwise!!!!!" wow, just wow
I don’t like liars. This speaker changed the question and then lied. Obviously, Moslems are not Christians by definition. The question was, is it the same God? This guy proposes to answer this question and then changes it from “God” to “God the father”. In my own quest for understanding I am constantly being turned off by those who feel the need to tell lies in order to fool people into believing their point of view.
@dalecs47 ....John Piper is dead on right. Your quest for UNDERSTANDING is being hindered by YOUR OWN SIN. Until you repent of that SIN...you will NEVER find the answers you seek.
@dalecs47 Are you serious? John Piper is clearly showing, from the Scriptures who the Christian God is, Muslims deny the Trinity. They relegate Jesus to the status of prophet, but they don't want to listen to what the prophet actually said about anyone who claims to worship the true King. The Muslim God has no son. Their God is not the God of the Bible. They are simply trying to hi-jack the true God. Piper said nothing untruthful. If you don't understand something, I will help you.
There is no God of Abraham. There is a God of all Creation but there is no God specific to Abraham or any other group or race. The Sumerian tablets (Book of Enki) are quite explicit in describing who the "Lords" of the earth were...The Lords were created by the Prime Creator (true God) as was everything else. However they became corrupted by the "fallen angels" which fooled many into believing they are the children of the one and only God. Organized religion is bogus. A tool of the devil.
The God of Abraham is one in the same as seen in Judaism, Islam and christianity. This guy tries to confuse the answer to the question by bringing up the polytheism aspect of Christianity. As if Christianity wasn't confusing enough.
What I find interestng in this is every Con Artist in history used this BELIEVE IN ME bullshit! After all if you BELIEVE (THINK) the con artist is there to help you then you are an easy mark!
Without being able to prove the truth or falseness of someones claims to simply BELIEVE they are what they claim is foolish and setting yourself up foor being decieved!
The only way to ensure you will not be tricked or decieved is to go by FACTS & EVIDENCE!
Well. This is why everyone has a "free will". God's treaty with the gentiles continued in Jesus Christ.... But his chosen people were the Jews. From these two groups of people (chosen people and the church), there is no third threaty.
@MrGoodNKinky instead of thinking Free Will.. Think Human Responsibility. You will be held responsible for your actions. Your denial or acceptance of the truth; being: Jesus, is the one True Son of God who came to be among men, died for our sins, putting to death our unrighteousness, and rose from the grave 3 days later, making a way for us to walk in righteousness with God. Jesus was the atoning sacrifice. You have the ask God to give you a believing heart, and He will answer.
@MrGoodNKinky i think i you missed somethings. Firstly they all had to be dead on that day. HAD to be. it was the request of the elders because the passover was on that weekend and according to Mosaic Law it was improper to have the bodies up during that time. Yes crucifixion could last for a few days but in this case it could not be allowed, hence, the breaking of the legs. death comes quicker for no support of the upper body. suffocation.
@MrGoodNKinky but you forget thathe was dead before they got to Him. Hence the spear in the side to make sure. The other too were still alive but He had already died. Keeping in mind the loss of blood was heavy He had been scourged before hand. Also it wasn't that He was talking as though He were good But with His last breath He uttered His final words on the cross. The what if it was all planned that way is also unreliable. He His death surved His purpose but testiomony of its truth
@MrGoodNKinky also note blood doesnt disapper in a matter of hours does it. medically blood and liquid will build up in the lungs after inernal bleeding has taken place. look that one up.
That cloth is proof that who you fools call Jesus was a Greek named Apollonius of Tyana.
It was also an Essene Healing Cloth!
The Essene were a jewish sect that were known as great Healers!
There is an Essene Gospel of Peace as well as other Essene writtings where this Jesus (Apollonius) gave a very different message then the one approved by Rome & The Church!
Clearly you do not know the history behind your own religion.
These comments are dumb at best. you can't have a gospel principle with muhammud. he never claimed to be God and king. Do your research on the word gospel in the greek before you throw it around like a fool. Second, Jesus is Christianity, maybe you got a bad deal by some christian but to say Jesus doesn't approve of himself is stupid. every so called religion is just your classic "do good things and maybe you will get somewhere better." Christianity's claims are at least absolute.
djm31591 2 months ago
@djm31591 I cannot believe how ridiculous your response is! I never for a moment suggested or implied that Muhammad claimed to be God. I was simply saying that it is a principle of Jesus and common sense that you shall know them by their fruit. If the fruit is good then the tree is good. Yes? That is clearly Jesus' teaching. But the fruit of Islam has been good (at least as good as Christianity) so does that not imply that the tree is also good?!
bayreuth79 1 month ago
So, according to Mr Piper, it is only Christians who believe in and worship the true God. I think this is substantially problematic though. What of the belief and worship of the Jews before the Advent of Christ? Clearly, they did not honour Jesus because they didn't know Christ. What of the 'Gospel' principle of "You shall know them by their fruit". If this is applied to Prophet Muhammad and the Muslim Saints, then you'd have to say that they worship the true God.
bayreuth79 2 months ago
@bayreuth79 Yeah, Islamics treat their woman like animals because Islamic doctrine is they don't have souls. It's a religion of violence and oppression towards women. Nice fruit.
killerproctologist88 1 month ago
@killerproctologist88 What?! Are you being serious? Before Muhammad died he instructed the Muslims to remember the salah (prayer) and to be kind to women. I have spent several years studying Islam and I can assure you that it is not a doctrine of Islam that women don't have souls! That is the most extreme nonsense I have ever heard from an Islamaphobe!
bayreuth79 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 I'm not an "Islmaphobe" thank you very little. Qur'an (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176). In Islam, sexism is mathematically established. Women are treated very poorly in Islamic countries because of this verse and others like it. Bad fruit.
killerproctologist88 1 month ago
@killerproctologist88 There are reasons why the male should have a greater inheritance than the female, especially in the context of 6th century Arabia. If Islam is sexist why is it that muslim women were given "rights" in the 6th century denied to women in the West until the end of the 19th century? Why is it that from the earliest centuries there were female muslim scholars when women in the West were confined to the house or convent? And please distinguish between Islam & Muslims!
bayreuth79 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 Islam: the meaning comes from the Arabic verbal noun (like a gerund) s-l-m. When appropriate vowel markers are added the word Islam appears. The etymology of s-l-m is to submit, accept, or surrender. From this comes Islam’s conventional definition of surrender to God.
killerproctologist88 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 Muslim : also has its roots in the s-l-m verb. It is a participle of the verb and refers to a person who engages in the act of submission, acceptance, or surrender. Therefore a Muslim is a person who submits to the will of God, or a follower of Islam.
killerproctologist88 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 So, a Muslim is someone that follows Islam. Women in the west mostly stayed at home because it worked better that way. That does not mean that women were belittled as they are in Islamic cultures. This is probably why...Don't pray if you are drunk, dirty, or have touched a woman lately. 4:43. A husband can accuse his wife of adultery with only one witness. 24:6.
killerproctologist88 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly)
killerproctologist88 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 Allah gives Muslims permission to beat their wives if they aren't obedient to their husbands. A curious doctrine considering some have said Islam is a "religion of peace." If it was a religion of peace, why is it that in ancient times their methods of converting people was, if you don't accept Allah as God, you get your head cut off? Ever think about that one?
killerproctologist88 1 month ago
@killerproctologist88 You really are misrepresenting Islam. I'm afriad you are wrong- history tells us that when the muslims conquered a particular land the conquered populace had the choice of remaining within their own religion, for which they had to pay a tax (just as the muslims had to pay the zakat), or conversion to Islam. Look at Muslim Spain (Al-Andalus): the Jews and Christians coexisted in relative peace under Muslim rule for centuries. However, the Muslims were slaughtered in 1492
bayreuth79 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 Muslims invaded india and killed millions of innocent hindus and budhists. Some of the muslim kings accepted the gifts of hindus and let them surrender but their religious fundamentalists finally forced them to kill saying “Quran COMMANDS us to KILL non-belivers”. You live in a fairy tale my friend. Islam is wicked.
killerproctologist88 1 month ago
@killerproctologist88 ... when the Catholics reconquered Al-Andalus. This is known as the Reconquista. Not only were the Muslims put to the sword but the Jews as well. So, let us not have any sanctimonious nonsense about Islam being a religion of violence.
You need to ask yourself why so many women are converting to Islam in the Western world? I mean intelligent, informed women.
bayreuth79 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 What about Jihad? What about Hassan-i Sabbah? What about the endless oppression and bloodshed that occurs in Islamic countries? You can't ignore the history, and current state of violence in Islamic countries with no end in sight! Through a family friend who's a friend of a missionary says an 8 year old boy he converted to Christianity in Africa was shot and killed by a Muslim for saying "Jesus is God" and not your Muhammad.
killerproctologist88 1 month ago
God is the same yes, but the problem is man wrote most of the bible and that is why it has so many contradictions and problems. John Piper is just another lost christian. Jesus does not approve of christianity at all.
gobuddyboy 3 months ago
@gobuddyboy This comment does not make sense.
bpolyamorousb 3 months ago
Buddhists do not believe in a 'true God' do your research...
jagara1 3 months ago
Best answer ever. Pure logic.
Thank you John Piper, for instructing Adam Young! He's really being used by God right now.
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
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I would love to ask John who wrote the gospels....he quotes two books that he doesn't even know who wrote...but is the basis for his belief. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
Cousinsjay 4 months ago
I would love to ask John who wrote the gospels....he quotes to boos that he doesn't even know who wrote...but is the basis for his belief. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
Cousinsjay 4 months ago
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Somebody better tell John that there are 10,000 religions in the world with incompatible teachings many of which are willing to die for their faith. I'm glad to know that he has the true religion. I was a christian most all my life and finally woke up. My family who are fundamentalists make fun of humanism.....sad
Cousinsjay 4 months ago
disturbing.....like watching a cult member........
Cousinsjay 4 months ago
what about mormons and jehovahs?
automatic91 4 months ago
@automatic91 they're not Christian.
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
yes they the same just a story
Musashi850 6 months ago
first 8 seconds he said what I wanted to hear.
finessewes9119 7 months ago 2
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If you don't believe Jesus is God, then you don't believe in the Christian God. Period.
HiDefJesus 7 months ago
Ever notice how few Muslims involve themselves with the endless debate which is promoted in these (or any other) video? As a Muslim, my only obligations are to respect other peoples religions in a kind manner AND to inform them of the TRUTH given in the Qu'ran. With that said, I invite anyone with an interest to explore the final revelation to mankind given over a 23 year period to our Prophet(SAW) - Please don't say you had no idea or that no one ever told you. O.K.?
hamzah938 8 months ago
Piper is so full of crap-or he is just intellectually dishonest by not mentioning the Jews-the NT that the Prots are so fond of telling us they follow (Scripture Alone, you papist fools!) is just loaded with Jesus, the Scribes and the Pharisees attacking each other.
RPenta 8 months ago
Is the God of the Talmud also the God of the New Testament? How's that for a change of topic?
RPenta 8 months ago
@RPenta Yes, but that's just because the Talmud foretold of the coming of Christ...it didn't deny Christ's coming. The Talmud and the New Testament are on the same page...same God.
dboller1 8 months ago
@dboller1 Sure; you mean how the Talmud (arguably, many Jews deny this) blashphemes Jesus and disrespects the Blessed Virgin Mary-ok, I got that .
That is Christian Zionist BS.
RPenta 8 months ago
Definition of refute: to prove to be false. I think you like that word?
Well i refute "a child's wisdom.." because i am older than a childer, meaning i have more wisdom (accumulated philosophic and scientific learning) than a child. Yet i am younger than you, and you have not demolished my thoughts one bit.
Sorry, but you look at things so far away that you do not see what is actually going on. You are like a person that tries to read a menu from outside the building, you dont fully understand
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
"if A is true then B is true". mr piper, even if you believe B is true, this doesn't mean that A is true!
BozoTheBear 9 months ago
Arguing about death and such is not meaningful in my opinion. "Contradictions" ..blah blah. Thats probably your favorite term huh? Actually prove a point. Dont use the "absence" of things (in reality; your personal blindness to God) to "refute" things. You say "OH contradictions!!...life after non-life?!" ..but.. "i believe we go back to the stars, but give no evidence to support the statement." I believe in what Jesus talked about, not my own limited knowledge. Since Jesus is risen, its valid
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
I don't usually listen to these vids while I'm typing refutations, but I heard this one, and I truly couldn't believe how bad it was!
To sum up: if you believe the bible, then what the bible says is true.
OR: It says in the bible that the bible is true, therefore you must believe what it says.
One unfortunate aspect of that illogical reasoning is that you must believe several hundred blatant contradictions.
Talk about double-think!
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
Using the term contradiction are we? First off, begin to study what "life after death means." Obviously people dont die physically just to live again physically; but rather the soul and character which you also have, lives on spiritually, it just depends where it dwells after the physical death. Secondly, you say you dont share the same beliefs as christians, yet you pretend to know the character of God...?? : contradiction. The God of the bible proved his love through Jesus. allah, buddha didnt
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
Maybe the more interesting question then, is do jews worship the same god as christians? Jews worship yahweh, the god of the old testament, which is also the god that christians woship. Is the assertion that because jews do not accept christ as the messiah, that they are actually worshiping a different god?
neclark2 9 months ago
It's funny all the comments written below... But at the end, a blind man would say.
"I don't give a heck if He's a sinner or not...That before I couldn't see but now I see, that I know!"
Jersongs93 9 months ago
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Atheism:
In the beginning there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing, until nothing exploded, and created everything. Then, the nothing that became everything magically rearranged itself for no reason into self-replicating complex life forms, that became intelligent beings that believed in God. Makes perfect sense. LOL.
DirtyABirdy 9 months ago
@adamskibobs Whatever you want to call it, Adam. Same atoms make stars, dirt, you, me (but not spirits and supernatural entities)
I appreciate your short answer - are you preparing one to address the longer questions I posed?
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe We dont return to the stars.We return to One true God or we go to hell.All other religions are naturalistic kind of unite with nature,reincarnation nonsence.We are sinfull,we are desperate for a saviour.
Jesus is the way.By his blood those who are in him,are made just and clean from sin.Those who reject Jesus,reject God the father and are trown in to hell.Tell me if you are fallen angel and want to drag someone to hell with you would you not make false religions to deceive people
DirtyABirdy 9 months ago
@DirtyABirdy Sorry to say - though I must say it - your words are nonsense based on Iron Age myths which only had relevance in those times because they were the only explanation for natural events. Those people had no knowledge of tectonics, biology, meteorology et al. We do, and therefore we have no excuse for retaining the beliefs. In fact, they are a danger to us: religion has left a trail of blood across the world, and those who believe in an afterlife are careless of this (the only) one.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "Those people foretold today times ,that in the very last days before return of Jesus unbelivers will ridicule Gods testimony and will supres the truth of Gods eternal word,because of following their earthly passions and because of bitternes of their faliures.Quote from bible- But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 they said to you, "In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions."
DirtyABirdy 9 months ago
@DirtyABirdy Why would you quote the bible at me? It makes no sense to do that, since I don't believe a single word of it. Look at what you are saying; it is all without reason or any basis at all except a very contradictory and plagarised anthology of mythology. It has no truth. It is the reverse of what you think.
Just live a good life for others, that satisfies you with its honesty.
I wish you well; I wish you truth, and I wish you freedom
..."scoffers, following their own ungodly passions."
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe I wish you well; I wish you truth, and I wish you freedom too but from sin and death.Lord is calling you, maybe now try this messages.Dont ignore Him.Peace
DirtyABirdy 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Just because you dont believe something to be true, doesn't make it un-true. Do you honestly think that the bible has no truth? Jesus was a historical real person. Argue his existence with non-christian and christian scholars alike and come to find out that he was real....therefore; the bible has some truth; therefore YOU are wrong in saying the bible has no truth. How do you support your claim? You act as if what you say is truth, but you are ignorant to facts of history
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a I honestly believe that the bible is based on a complete mish-mash of myths with some references to real places and kingdoms. But there is certainly no evidence of David, Jesus, or god. Certainly the talking snake episode (eden) is a misplaced allegory.
Even if the hearsay about a JC figure is based on a real person (v.doubtful), then you still have a mountain of work to do to prove divinity.
(I do not have to "support" a claim of non-existence - that is an absurd request.)
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
How is it an absurd request? If you so believe that you're right and what you believe is true, then wouldn't you want to share truth with those who don't know it? I want to know where you get your info. Im assuming that you dont believe in history either. Like the war of 1812 never happened either right? WW1 was just a myth?
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a I want so much to share my truth. I’m expressing knowledge that certain things aren’t true because a) there is no record of them & b) belief would require faith in the supernatural. It is absurd to ask me to “prove” a negative. My truth is that there is nothing out there. “I’m assuming that you don’t believe in history either..”
“History (n) continuous methodical record of public events.” OED
Yes, I believe in history. I don’t know what made you think otherwise
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
"No record of them." Did you know that there are more accurate, historical manuscripts for the New Testament than for all other ancient philosophers that America hold to so dearly? Ex.-Plato, Sacrotes. Type in "manuscript evidence" in google and click the second link to see that. Read ancient HISTORICAL, non-christian historians writings about Jesus. They didnt like religion, they just wrote facts, but they still recorded Jesus as a person in their writings. Do you realize that?
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
To expound on the evidence aspect; you would have to disregard all other philosopher's ancient (real and historical) writings as in-accurate and poorly preserved, if you were to say that the New Testament (which records the life of Jesus) was false. If the NT is false, then every other recorded event in history is false as well. The NT (Matt-Rev) has aver 5,600 greek copies preserved and 99.5% accurate to the bible we have today. Basically you are saying that everything that has
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a 2) …Very little in the bible is original, there are huge contradictions. Christianity is a club of the willfully ignorant. Your Bible is proof of its failure. It fails morally by sanctioning genocide, celebrating infanticide and tolerating slavery. It fails logically with self-contradiction and historical inaccuracies. Wake up and face the fact that there is not one iota of proof your fantasy is real. Citing anecdote and delusions as proof is pathetic.
Find truth and peace
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
...been written in history is un-reliable. There is more translated and recorded copies of the New Testament than there are for Napoleon's life, yet we believe that he existed today. I mean, where do you get your info? There are over 25,000 historical archeological sites from the bible confirmed today. How much "proof" do you need? Like what is your real arguement? Surely you haven't read every history, archeolgy, philosphy book in barnes and nobles have you? Do some research!
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Ps-sorry to write so much, but also, "your truth" about life after death means nothing. The reason that Christians believe in life after death is because Jesus talked about it, and since Jesus claimed to be (and was) God on earth...they sort of listened to him. So unless you think you are God, and have power to back up your omnipotence, your "truth" isn't truth at all, its deception. Put your faith in power and truth, not in opinions and preferences.
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a 1) If you think about it, you’re asking me to consult writings that were non-religious in order that I might believe in jesus – you’re saying that if the gospels won’t convince me (you’re right there!) then I should look up some writers who knew about him, wrote about him, but didn’t believe in his divinity.
The Mithra myth is a story which the JC story echoes in fine detail, and it was supposed to have been written many years before…
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a
PS "Life after death" is, in case you hadn't noticed, a contradiction in terms. To believe in it requires trust in magic. The universe is wonderful, diverse and complex - but it is not magic.
If there was a god - why is he so elusive? Is he playing tricks (like a poltergeist)?
Why would you suggest I think I'm god? that's a bit insulting, your god is vindictive, murderous, racist, and mad - fundamentally based on the worst of human weaknesses!
Shed it.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Just because something isn't material or in the universe doesn't mean it can't be true. Is God elusive? In some ways I think he is. But that could be due to our self centeredness. How much energy do you spend trying to learn about this elusive God, or do you just argue against him? There are a lot of good books you can read. I'm reading a book called The Reason for God by Timothy Keller and I really enjoy it.
1truth55 9 months ago
@1truth55 God could be elusive in the same way that ghosts and poltergeists and the spirits of our ancestors are elusive - because they don't exist. In which case, why would you try to learn about them? You are trying to learn about something in order to prove its existence, which means you have to assume its existence first.
"Self-centredness" (funny you should happen upon that!) is precisely what leads humans to the gods in the first place - "all this must have been designed for us"
Shed it.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe I'm open to evidence, I also read Richard Dawkins book The Greatest Show on Earh: the Evidence for Evolution. So I don't think I'm unbalanced in my quest to learn about God.
What I mean by self centeredness is this: we often ignore any evidence that gets in the way of our desires. If we believe the Bible, our lives have to change. So self-centeredness can keep us from coming to God.
1truth55 9 months ago
@1truth55 B) …both in terms of massive contradictions, and huge lapses of morality. It is the excuse for extremism, for a lot of them have and will kill and die for it. If we are good people, then our lives do not “have to change” and it would be wrong for that to happen. I have a wish to get the human race out of this dependence on a vindictive and threatening imaginary friend, and leave the world a better place.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@1truth55 A) You said: “…in my quest to learn about God.” Which presupposes the existence of that entity – and is therefore unbalanced, contrary to what you claimed. You need to start from outside of that faith. What I mean by self-centredness is this: the religions always ignore any evidence that is outside their texts and their comfort. What I am trying to put across is that the bible is self-evidently wrong,…
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Where do you get your thoughts on the Bible? Just from reading it or have you read Hitchens or Dawkins or someone? Have you ever read I christian author's book about the Bible?
1truth55 9 months ago
@1truth55 I read my posts again before replying. I don't see any problem with what I said. I have read a fair bit of the bible (though any single page illustrates most of what I've ever said)
I want religions to achieve their rightful place, which is in the margins alongside astrology, druidism, mormonism and scientology, where they can do less harm to the human race.
It's the biggest evil there is and if people believe this Piper trash (listen to it!!) then we are in danger from them.
Peace.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe I don't think Piper's view of life is evil whether he's right or not. Some who hold back people from rational thinking in the name of the Bible I would almost categorize as evil, but I don't think Piper is like that. How much stuff have you heard from Piper, just a view videos or have you listened to any of his sermons or anything? I've listened to a couple hundred of his sermons and I think they are very rational and point people toward the truth.
1truth55 9 months ago
@1truth55 I haven't listened to several hundred of his sermons (I don't think the world needs preachers.) But if they are all as illogical as this one, then.... (I honestly can't believe how this man thinks he is speaking any sense at all - it's appalling!!)
Piper is one of many charlatans who feed well off the gullible.
The world will move on too slow if religion is allowed to continue.
Oh that we could marginalise it!
Find peace and clarity without it. Please!
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
I would say that the biggest "contradiction" in people who deny the God of the Bible and Jesus as Lord, is that they try to use God to contradict Himself, yet say they do not believe in Him. That is like saying to a woman, "I absolutely hate you with all of my heart, you are ugly in appearance, and disgusting at heart...but i want you to marry me." You cant take these so called "attributes" of God yet discard the other ones, like, a big one; his SOVEREIGN will.
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
I challenge you to this. If you took a hugely important attribute of God and applied it to the Bible, your mind and heart would probably be changed, even just a little bit. God is GOD. He is the BIG DOG. HE does whatever he wants whenever he wants. If some nut-jobs thought they could take over God's people's promised land, sure, as God, wipe em out. Humans don't command God, He is in charge. YET, as dumb as we are, He sent Jesus to atone for our stupidity and sins and forgive us.
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a 3. If he does whatever he wants, why doesn’t he want to prevent the slaughter and starvation of innocents (8m children a year!)? Why did he create us so dumb that we can’t even prove he exists, and so sinful that we need saving? It’s all nonsense! And my only wish is that we can get ourselves out of this stupidity.
I wish you peace and clarity.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Haha. Man, you sure like "pointing out people's contradictions or their illogical reasonings" but you dont think before you write yourself. All of the knowledge that i have about the God of the Bible, comes from the Bible. But it seems that you have hundreds of questions about the Bible, but you aren't willing to answer them yourselves so you spend much time on youtube to rhetorically ask them. Answer these ?s first: "Was Jesus God on earth? If so were do i want to go when i die?
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
I cant answer that question for you. Sorry. I cant because, for one, i am not God and i do not know his plan for mankind. And two, ive never read a verse in the bible that says "i let people die because ..etc." All i can tell you that ive read this: "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very reason I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you." -Romans 9:17a God killed Pharaoh in the Red Sea after he didn't free God's people from bondage.
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a 03) thing. There is no remaining consciousness. Thankfully, heaven is an imaginary place – it would be total hell if it existed.
The prophecies were made by fanatical witch doctors. Stories were then written which “fulfilled” the prophecies. Surprise!
Can you believe what you read in the tabloids today? Neither can I, yet you put your faith in the ramblings of brutal, primitive superstitious mythmakers of 2000 yrs ago.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a 02) When you use “blah blah” against an opponent, it means you are losing.
Was jesus god on earth? No. Absolutely not; nothing that the stories say he did indicate divinity. Nothing is left of his assumed presence; the “miracles” left no trace.
When you die “you” go to a funeral. Where you might WANT to go is a different
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a 01) If you quote the bible at me, what are you achieving?
A child’s wisdom would demolish your thoughts and opinions: “I believe in god because it’s what god said”
I understand why “contradictions” is a bad word for you; if you study the bile you will find so many, and that would shake your faith. (sorry – bible!)
Everything you say is based around the supposition that there is a god.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Ignorance. I am achieving something you know not how to do. Quoting sources. Giving a back up for what i believe. And having validty in my sources. Not pulling it out of thin air, or out of petty youtube videos or hollywood movies. Where do your opinions gain power and truth? Why is it that you cannot persuade someone to come along side you and believe that you will "return to the stars?" Because there is no truth or reality in what you say. But there is truth in Jesus' name.
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a The bible is valid because it says it is valid..? The bible backs up itself..? You think you quote convincing sources by quoting the bible..? (You will find that reading the whole bible (and thinking about it without prejudice) destroys judaism and christianiy completely, by self-ridicule.)
Death is oblivion, (which is OK once you get the idea - same for everyone), and one day the earth will be consumed, by the sun or Andromeda, and our substance will be scattered in the stars.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Your argument of the bible's validity, is valid because you say its valid? Are you a renowned historian? Who cares what you think about the bible's validity?
You, yourself, are using the Bible to make it invalid, by saying the Bible is invalid, because the Bible contradicts itself. Do you realize that.
History backs up what i know about the Bible; archeology, manuscripts.
You say "the bible is invalid because the bible destroys itself."
???
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
What i mean by that is; that you think you see contradictions and then you stop there. Have you ever tried to "solve" the "contradictions?" Have you ever investigated the past culture of the Jews and so forth? Have you ever read the whole bible? I do not know how much you investigated your questions and tried to solve them, rather than leaving them "cold case files."
I am grateful however, because there is much more evidence for Jesus than for "going back to the stars."
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a Though you be older than a child, my Son, yet you show no more wisdom or curiosity in your mind. You believe in magic like a trusting child believes in santa, when he is told of it by those he believes in. He can't understand that the logistics of the santa story don't make sense.
You cant understand that I am entitled to doubt your magical view of the universe, because there is no evidence of it.
"It must be true!" you cry, "or my life is all in vain!"
There is a way. It's real.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Is that where it ends up? Trying to attack my character now? I thought we were debating beliefs?
Its not magical, its supernatural. Beyond our finite minds.
Is it wrong to believe in something someone says, if its true? As a child. Mom said "Dont touch the stove you'll get burned." Why mom? "Bcuz mom has done it herself." How do you know it'll happen to me? "You just have to trust mom." It didn't matter if you listened to her or if you touched the stove, mom spoke truth.
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a 2) We are debating beliefs, your belief in reports of magical/supernatural (semantics!) by primitive, superstitious people who lived in a brutal time.
I am just saying that these things didn’t happen (I would never say JC was real!) The bible is real, and belief in it is responsible for a lot of the ills in the world today. The Koran has a lot to answer for too.
As for who cares what I think – well, I do, and it seems to be exercising you somewhat, as well!
Please, believe in YOU.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
You keep claiming that it was superstitious, but you have no ancient records to verify your claims; rather you have hundreds of ancient eyewitness to refute your claim. Do you know why there are so many man-made "gods" in the world? Because, if no one ever see's your god, then they can never refute it. But since Jesus was a real person who claimed to be God, ppl really saw him and his miracles, they faced a huge problem; accept him as Lord God and savior or not? Still a ? today
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Hopefully you actually ask yourself these questions.
Why is it that Jesus is the most debated person in history? Why is it that the Bible is always being attacked? Why can we burn the Bible but not the Quran? Why do we always seek to prove the Bible false but not the Quran? Is it because Jesus claimed to be the only truth, when Muhammad and Siddartha never claimed that? Is it because 40 authors compiled the bible we have today, when only muhammad (1 author) wrote the quran?
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a 3) Number of authors doesn’t indicate anything. The bible is always being attacked because it’s immoral and it self-claims to be true. Burning either of them doesn’t mean anything to me. But we must marginalize the believers, and make the world peaceful.
Come on! Let's move on from this stuff! It serves no good purpose.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Just in case you are delusional, or you are just deceived by a great deceiver who wil do anything to have you understand the Christ, i will say this:
Almost everything you've said, has been out of ignorance (being unaware of) what has happened in the past. You yourself admit to have no sources to claim your "truths" and those after you will never receive your "truths" because they arent truth. Christ is the reason why hungry are feed, naked are clothed, and lives are forgiven
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Hindus would rather keep their "truth" a secret a hide out in the forest of the mountains and meditate, muslims are willing to hide other faiths from their children so "they dont hear the lies," mormans say they believe in Christ as savior, but they incorporate "the pearl of great price." Many other religions boast great things, but act little. Christ is the only one who values woman, poor, orphans, homeless, etc. He is the only one who practiced what he preached. He died for it
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Lastly, before i go. I pray that you come to know Jesus Christ as your Savior, and that you come to understand that you actually need one. That the God of all the known, and unknown (by man) universe, is just and righteous, and you and i are not worthy of being in his presence, because he is perfect and we aren't. Understand that "it serves no good" is exactly what you are doing. Your written words on youtube do not feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. Jesus is hope, you arent
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a If you pray for me, then a) it is unwanted and unnecessary, and b) it won't work, like every other prayer of the trillions that are blurted every day.
Think.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@marshallbx5a 2) I know there are many man-made gods; ALL of them are man-made. (You’ve managed to dismiss most of them – just one to go!)
“But since Jesus was a real person who claimed to be god”…? Study that statement… It assumes outlandishly and it shows delusion.
JC claimed to be the only truth – so what? mohamed claimed his pile of lies to be the FINAL truth.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Sadly, its time for me to stop. Its your choice to sit on your butt and fight over truth, or you can look it up someday for yourself. You act like you know truth, but if you really knew truth, you wouldn't be wasting your time, looking for ppl to debate on utube. I was watching a video for encouragement, but ppl like you always have to shout lies.
Ps-Muhammed claimed truth, but never did miracles, and never died for what he himself preached, but JC, however did.
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a People need blood for their beliefs, especially christians and moslems. I don't need saving. In fact, my reason for debate is to make the world a freer, safer place.
I have fed and clothed more poor than your "saviour" ever did just by giving.
You are a hypocrite to ignore the 8 million children who die needlessly every year, and the abject misery that your god and saviour have left most of the world in.
Strange how you reverse truth. It is you are delusional, and talk to ghosts.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe So you seriously believe you have done more humanitarian work than Jesus!
You must be famous! Who would have thought there are such great people on you tube?
okorewq 7 months ago
@okorewq
Yes, seriously. Because he did none of course, because his is fictitious.
But here's a little quote from your jc:
Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple."
Most of the things he says in the stories are bizarre and contradictory. Were he a real person he would be locked up!
But christians "don't read what don't fit"
StrumstickJoe 7 months ago
@StrumstickJoe You quoted one of my best liked scriptures. I don't know what point you mean to make from it though. The true gospel is that unless one desires Christ more than anything else in this life, they will not see the kingdom of God.
I would love for you to quote me ONE contradictory story that He has told. I agree that they are bizarre.They are unintelligent. They are offensive, Such is the message of the cross to the world, but "to us who believe, it is the power of God"(1Cor. 1:18).
okorewq 7 months ago
@okorewq Because 'he' was hellfire lunatic (first in the bible to mention hell, I think ,though, of course, like jc himself and all the other stuff, it was plagarised from existing myths)
If that's your favourite bit, you are in trouble - and it worries me that people can devalue this life as much as that.
The cross is an instrument of torture - your fantasies are steeped in blood.
Don't quote the bible to me, I don't believe a single word of it, it's immoral and repulsive.
Earth is what we got.
StrumstickJoe 7 months ago
@StrumstickJoe You quoted me Luke 14:26, but can't stand me quoting the same Bible to explain Bible faith! Remarkable.
"Hell and jc was plagiarised from existing myths" THEREFORE he should be locked up. If you value life so much, you should care for justice. You can take comfort in knowing He was crucified for those "myths". The cross as an instrument of torture and my "fantasies" being rooted in blood is truth. He was tortured, and my hope is because He died. You are not far from the gospel.
okorewq 7 months ago
@okorewq I'm allowed to quote it to prove its failings - you are welcome to quote it as long as you realise you are doing the same! I advise you not to if you think you are going to achieve a conversion.
! said "would" be locked up.
I care for justice. I want the 22,000 children under 5 who will die today in agony of neglect to be given food and water and homes.
your damn jesus doesn't!
StrumstickJoe 7 months ago
@okorewq Here's some more favourite bits for you to study!
This is just a sample of the words of wisdom and morality you can find in your book: Deut 25:11-12 Genesis 38:8-10 Deut 21:18-21 Ex 35:2 Lev 20:13 Isaiah 13:13-16 Exodus 21:20-21 1 Tim 2:11-12 Col 3:22-23 Luke 14:26 Deut 22:13-21 Isaiah 40:8
Now try explaining.
Don't just believe the stuff that fits your view of the world - that is deceitful.
Bottom line - I don't believe in magic.
StrumstickJoe 7 months ago
@StrumstickJoe So I can only quote the Bible if I agree with what you think it's saying, though you consider that it's absolute myth? I read all the scriptures you quoted above, and I didn't find anything I didn't know before. If you are patient with me I could explain why all of what you quoted is the word of God, true, holy and infallible. Shame there is not enough space here. God is holy and He is love. You and I love humanity, so we hate war. I love children, so I hate abortion (To continue
okorewq 7 months ago
@StrumstickJoe; We love health, so we hate disease. We love justice, so we hate injustice. Similarly, God loves good, so he hates bad. He loves right and holy, so He hates sin and unholiness. If (God forbid) some maniac slaughtered one of your family, and when you dragged him/her to court, they proved that he was guilty, but the judge being very "loving and kind" said this thug gets away Scott free, you would rightfully call the judge evil and unjust. You would consider the judge (to continue
okorewq 7 months ago
@okorewq No. you can quote the bible all you want, but it will only confirm its failings.
I think there was too much hate in your posts. Very little point to the emotions of hate or anger (unless, I suppose, it spurs someone to do something productive) and that is one factor in the doubt of your god. Wrath is a sign of human weakness, we are angry when we cannot control circumstances - so why would an omnipotent god be angry? It makes no sense at all.
Other factor - You believe in magic. I can't
StrumstickJoe 7 months ago
@StrumstickJoe When I talk about His love, you point out 12 verses to show God as not so loving, and when I talk about His wrath, my posts are full of hate? And I do not know why you think God has to conform to your theory that if He is wroth He is weak. As I said He is wroth at wrong, because He loves right.
Anyways, cheers to you. We believe differently but our exchange has been largely civil. I hope that I'll see you in the kingdom of God when Christ is revealed. (Now that's not hate, hahaha)
okorewq 7 months ago
@okorewq I abbreviated: your posts were full of the word "hate", and I do not necessarily think that is the right emotion for dealing with problems.
It might not be the right word, either: I have a bone condition, but it don't "hate" it, I treat it and try to manage it - any hate would be a wasted emotion.
Similarly guilt, christians adopt guilt and then need jc to rescue them. I don't see why they adopt it at all.
Neither jc or jp are helping Africa.
I wish you peace. Hit my vids if you like.
StrumstickJoe 7 months ago
@StrumstickJoe I should also applaud you on your work for humanity. I come from a poor village in Uganda and I understand the reality of poverty and disease more than most. There are many people all over the world who have sacrificed the comforts of their home countries to help the cause of poorer people like in my country. I also am heart broken at the pain in the world, children killed in cold blood in civil wars etc. It's my earnest hope that I am as useful to humanity as I perceive you are.
okorewq 7 months ago
@StrumstickJoe ...to be just as bad as the thug. A just righteous judge must punish wrong. God is good, therefore He hates bad. He is a just judge, therefore He must punish evil. You may say "It's a travesty that babies are killed, men stoned..." But that's YOUR standard of right and wrong. God who does all right and never any evil must hold a tighter standard for justice. He gives mercy though, through Christ Jesus, so we are spared from our justified judgment for all have sinned (Romans.3:23)
okorewq 7 months ago
@StrumstickJoe And He was more than locked up. He was crucified. But would you care to tell us His crimes why you think He would (should) be locked up?
okorewq 7 months ago
@okorewq
"he"
StrumstickJoe 7 months ago
@marshallbx5a 1) I can’t quote to you one source, ancient or modern, that says ANY one particular person from that era did NOT exist. I’ll say one more time to you, it is the believer who needs the evidence – what do I need evidence for? You really don’t get that, do you?
Humans have superstitions – they still read horoscopes and touch wood and follow faiths – they will always be superstitious.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a 1) I can say, without insulting your character that: “The Word became flesh. God became man. Jesus was God on earth.”
Is nonsense.
I am allowed to quote the bible to illustrate its nonsensical qualities – you are ill-advised to quote it because a) you are also showing it up and b) I don’t believe it, not a word of it, so why are you doing it? It fails to move me.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Wow, i didnt know that you were there when Jesus existed? That you know better than the hundreds of eyewitness that saw Jesus risen?
How do you know its nonsense? Quote to me, now focus intently on my words, one, ANCIENT source saying that Jesus of Nazareth, who people claimed to be the Christ, never existed. You put so much faith in modern sources, and in ppl who were never there, rather than the ppl who were actually there.
As the child; you can accept truth, or reject it
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a Sorry to come back - but I just realised you haven't been listening!!
You said..."there is much more evidence for Jesus than for "going back to the stars."
But I already told you,
"Was jesus god on earth? No. Absolutely not; nothing that the stories say he did indicate divinity. Nothing is left of his assumed presence; the “miracles” left no trace."
Pay attention!
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@StrumstickJoe
That is a different debate all together. Now you are saying Jesus was real? Where is your foundation?
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God." -John 1:1 "And the Word (with and WAS God) became FLESH and dwelt among us." -John 1:14
The Word (God), became FLESH.
Who is the one not paying attention? I didnt read 100 books to figure that out. I read 14 verses in the bible. The Word became flesh. God became man. Jesus was God on earth.
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
Respond to this video... 2. I wouldn’t pretend to know the character of a god-entity I do not believe exists - that would be absurd. And if I believe JC didn’t exist, why would I believe the preposterous proposition that he came to save us? I never did get that. I don’t get your simile, either.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a 1. Yes, contradiction; life and death are obviously opposite, and one terminates the other. So you must mean another “life” by which you can only be pleading for the existence of a soul. I refute that. The mind relies on physical existence; nothing survives the end of that. There is no soul. There is a huge contradiction in your post concerning first the “love” shown by this entity; then his wiping-out of nutjobs (which were his creations with preordained lives!!)
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
BECAUSE jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies, did miracles, and rose from the dead and defeated death (because according to the bible death is a penalty because of sin, and he conquered sin)..i believe He was the Son of God. If he was God, then surely his words and wisdom demolish my own thoughts and opinions. I believe in what i "believe in" because its what God said. You believe in what you believe in because YOU think so. How valid and powerful are YOUR opinions?! They aren't!
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
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@StrumstickJoe But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 they said to you, "In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions." 19 It is these who set up divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.
DirtyABirdy 9 months ago
@adamskibobs 1) It is looking for a cause that leads you down these paths of mythological fantasy and to these leaps of faith.
I don't believe in magic.
To believe that this random universe was designed - and that it was designed for US, is a fall into the realm of make-believe. Think on this...
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@adamskibobs 2) 99% of all the species who have ever lived on earth (including the “homo” species) have become extinct. Homo sapiens only just survived the migration out of Africa following climate change. What kind of planned creation is this? Your god also thought up hammerhead sharks (?) and a fungus that grows exclusively in an ant’s brain, killing it, then growing out a tendril to entrap the next passing ant… etc. Evolution can explain these things, but your god, what’s his excuse…?
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@adamskibobs I wish you could too!
And the others who post on here such things as: "Jesus is Lord,died for our sins risen from the dead"
Which doesn't make any kind of sense in any way - and is the rambling of the indoctrinated.
Thank you sincerely for elevating what I said, but I assure you it wasn't too profound for anyone to find the reason in it.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
Thank you Mr. Piper those were insightful points.In addition, Allah is NOT the same God because his attributes substantively vary w/the character & actions of the God of the Bible. The clearest example of this includes God appearing to Abraham and fellowshiping with him. Also,Creator God appearing to Moses in the burning bush; & the Son of Man appearing with the Hebrew boys in the fiery furnace. In Islam, allah NEVER interacts with nor enters his creation; Islam considers that to be blaspemy!
shieldsff 9 months ago
This was by far the best explanation of Islam's belief in the true God that I have ever heard.
rodneyfontaine 9 months ago
Jesus is Lord,died for our sins risen from the dead.All other religions are controled by demons or fallen angels and all of them lead to hell .period.
DirtyABirdy 9 months ago
@DirtyABirdy You need to re-evaluate your logic-circuits.
How can you possibly (except by the most severely indoctrinated, fixed, fanatical reasoning) believe what you just said?
All religions are tosh, but your kind of thinking leads to dangerous confrontations.
You have one life, live it for those close to you first and yourself second. Enjoy it and then return to the stars like the rest of us.
Find peace. Free yourself.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
How do you know we are returning to the stars? What evidence do you have for that?
marshallbx5a 9 months ago
@marshallbx5a The matter which composes us; all life; the world and the planets of the solar system was made in the fusion reactions in stars. We return to the earth as biomass, and one day the earth will be consumed (either by the expanding sun, or by collision with the Andromeda galaxy) and the whole of the earth will be smashed asunder, and every molecule will be returned to the stars.
No faith required.
Peace.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
The answer to the question posed by this video is "Yes"
Both gods are the delusions of people who still believe Iron Age mythology.
It is ridiculous to hear grown men discussing magical happenings as if they have happened, and a mythological dead person as if he ever walked the earth and performed spells!
Think about freeing yourself from it. It's nonsense.
You're not born evil, take credit for what you achieve, and keep smiling '-)
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
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this was informative & helpful discussion;.I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more aggressive claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general atheistic social perspectives
shieldsff 9 months ago
I was into The new age and believed that all religions were just different ways to the same God, with Jesus being my personal favourite. :) I was brought into line in 2009 by God's holy angels supernaturally and outside of all human concerns. They lead me straight to to JESUS CHRIST through THE HOLY BIBLE and I have never looked back at the world in the same way as before and never will again. My eyes were opened to a world of religions that worship fallen angels as gods.
voyagersystem 11 months ago 2
@baskuk The god of Islam comes bearing a sword. The God of Christianity comes bearing a shepherds staff.
How arrogant it would be to say we are worthy to be called sons of God in relative context compared to Jesus the Son of God. We were unworthy of Gods presence the day we were born. Jesus Christ was the final atoning sacrifice, putting our unrighteousness to death, and rose from the dead to bring us life; making a way for us to walk in righteousness, by the grace of God through His Son, Jesus
supafly189 11 months ago
Every religion is wrong because they don't believe in what my book says. That's his argument?
How could you possibly have an intellectual conversation with someone like this?
"Everyone is wrong because I know my 2,000 year old book holds the secrets to everything in the Universe, you cannot convince me otherwise!!!!!" wow, just wow
KourtlandtP 1 year ago
That's a circular argument.
"Believing in Jesus is the only way to know God because... Jesus told us so."
Mojosbigstick 1 year ago
I don’t like liars. This speaker changed the question and then lied. Obviously, Moslems are not Christians by definition. The question was, is it the same God? This guy proposes to answer this question and then changes it from “God” to “God the father”. In my own quest for understanding I am constantly being turned off by those who feel the need to tell lies in order to fool people into believing their point of view.
dalecs47 1 year ago
@dalecs47 ....John Piper is dead on right. Your quest for UNDERSTANDING is being hindered by YOUR OWN SIN. Until you repent of that SIN...you will NEVER find the answers you seek.
bornagain001 1 year ago
@dalecs47 Are you serious? John Piper is clearly showing, from the Scriptures who the Christian God is, Muslims deny the Trinity. They relegate Jesus to the status of prophet, but they don't want to listen to what the prophet actually said about anyone who claims to worship the true King. The Muslim God has no son. Their God is not the God of the Bible. They are simply trying to hi-jack the true God. Piper said nothing untruthful. If you don't understand something, I will help you.
SkiesVibrant 11 months ago
More pig vomit.
fanadfilms 1 year ago
There is no God of Abraham. There is a God of all Creation but there is no God specific to Abraham or any other group or race. The Sumerian tablets (Book of Enki) are quite explicit in describing who the "Lords" of the earth were...The Lords were created by the Prime Creator (true God) as was everything else. However they became corrupted by the "fallen angels" which fooled many into believing they are the children of the one and only God. Organized religion is bogus. A tool of the devil.
SpincterManBubba 1 year ago
The God of Abraham is one in the same as seen in Judaism, Islam and christianity. This guy tries to confuse the answer to the question by bringing up the polytheism aspect of Christianity. As if Christianity wasn't confusing enough.
blaisingm 1 year ago
This is a great example of why religions are ultimately doomed to fight one another. They each claim to be the one and only truth.
John Piper is Atheist towards Islam, Judaeism etc. When dismissing all these other gods, why did he stop at the christian god?
He is almost on the true path of Atheism - he just needs to go one god further.
UrukEngineer 1 year ago
What I find interestng in this is every Con Artist in history used this BELIEVE IN ME bullshit! After all if you BELIEVE (THINK) the con artist is there to help you then you are an easy mark!
Without being able to prove the truth or falseness of someones claims to simply BELIEVE they are what they claim is foolish and setting yourself up foor being decieved!
The only way to ensure you will not be tricked or decieved is to go by FACTS & EVIDENCE!
MrGoodNKinky 1 year ago
@MrReparsons22
Part 1:
Well. This is why everyone has a "free will". God's treaty with the gentiles continued in Jesus Christ.... But his chosen people were the Jews. From these two groups of people (chosen people and the church), there is no third threaty.
jesus7es7dios7 1 year ago
@jesus7es7dios7
The idea of freewill goes against the concept of SIN!
Sin is called disobedience to the will of this god.
Freewill is being able to make your own choices.
So any freewill choice that isn't exactly what this god would want is Sin by definition.
Which means freewill & Sin are one in the same!
How can we be condemned for having the very thing you fuckers want to claim this god gave us?
MrGoodNKinky 1 year ago
@MrGoodNKinky instead of thinking Free Will.. Think Human Responsibility. You will be held responsible for your actions. Your denial or acceptance of the truth; being: Jesus, is the one True Son of God who came to be among men, died for our sins, putting to death our unrighteousness, and rose from the grave 3 days later, making a way for us to walk in righteousness with God. Jesus was the atoning sacrifice. You have the ask God to give you a believing heart, and He will answer.
supafly189 11 months ago
@supafly189
IF you shift it to personal Responcibility for ones actions that still doesn't help your case.
Is it ok to let a child molester walk freely so long as they mouth the magick words YOU like?
What Christianity does is CONDEMN everyone for the actions of two people THEY NEVER MET!
Then turn around and EXCUSE ALL EVIL BEHAVIOR based entirely upon the actions of ONE MAN they never met.
And you have the GALL to say PERSONAL RESPONCIBILITY?
Are you fucking mad?
MrGoodNKinky 11 months ago
@supafly189
No amount of Belief in a fantasy could Ever undo a single thing I do that would harm another.
The very basis of Christian "FAITH" is a denial of Personal Responcibility for ones actions. Not taking responcibility for your actions.
You base weither someone is tortured or not entirely upon the THOUGHTS in their head and words they mouth?
What they do doesn't matter. Who they hurt doesn't matter.
All that matters is they profess a belief in a dead Bastard Jew?
WTF?
MrGoodNKinky 11 months ago
@MrGoodNKinky He lives haha... are you here just for attention? you bored for something?
MostHighful 10 months ago
@MostHighful
Actually if you look at the details in the story of this so called Death and burial of jesus there are multiple errors.
1. Friday night to Sunday morning is NOT 3 Days! If you think that is 3 Days then you have Serious problems in MATH!
2. Compare the story of Lazarus Death and Burial vs that of Jesus. The two are Vastly different!
3. Jesus was only on the cross a few Hours. Where all others were on the cross for DAYS!
4. If he was close to suffacation he couldn't cry out!
MrGoodNKinky 10 months ago
@MrGoodNKinky i think i you missed somethings. Firstly they all had to be dead on that day. HAD to be. it was the request of the elders because the passover was on that weekend and according to Mosaic Law it was improper to have the bodies up during that time. Yes crucifixion could last for a few days but in this case it could not be allowed, hence, the breaking of the legs. death comes quicker for no support of the upper body. suffocation.
deltaalphacharlie 10 months ago
@deltaalphacharlie
The problem is Jesus's legs were NOT broken!
Additionally someone that is close to Suffacation would be unable to cry out! It is Finished!
They wouldn't manage more then a Whisper because they would be close to Suffacation!
No oxygen no crying out!
Additionally a Dead body does not bleed!
So when Jesus did bleed from the cut on the side that was evidence he was not dead!
Additionally the burial of Jesus was vastly different from lazarus!
MrGoodNKinky 10 months ago
@MrGoodNKinky but you forget thathe was dead before they got to Him. Hence the spear in the side to make sure. The other too were still alive but He had already died. Keeping in mind the loss of blood was heavy He had been scourged before hand. Also it wasn't that He was talking as though He were good But with His last breath He uttered His final words on the cross. The what if it was all planned that way is also unreliable. He His death surved His purpose but testiomony of its truth
deltaalphacharlie 10 months ago
@MrGoodNKinky was written in the blood of others.
deltaalphacharlie 10 months ago
@MrGoodNKinky also note blood doesnt disapper in a matter of hours does it. medically blood and liquid will build up in the lungs after inernal bleeding has taken place. look that one up.
deltaalphacharlie 10 months ago
@deltaalphacharlie
Don't you think Jesus KNEW damn well that there would be a major Rush due to the Sabbath?
Couldn't that have been part of the plan in the first place?
It had to be done when it was done otherwise survival would've been impossible!
Additionally the Shroud of Turin is of Apollonius of Tyana. Which was the Real Jesus.
That cloth was a healing cloth.
Looking at the details behind this story reveal what actually occured!
The one that wrote John knew this!
MrGoodNKinky 10 months ago
@MrGoodNKinky that cloth is absolutely stupid. it has nothing to do with Jesus. Why? Because people worship the dang thing.
deltaalphacharlie 10 months ago
@deltaalphacharlie
That cloth is proof that who you fools call Jesus was a Greek named Apollonius of Tyana.
It was also an Essene Healing Cloth!
The Essene were a jewish sect that were known as great Healers!
There is an Essene Gospel of Peace as well as other Essene writtings where this Jesus (Apollonius) gave a very different message then the one approved by Rome & The Church!
Clearly you do not know the history behind your own religion.
Or what your Jesus actually taught!
MrGoodNKinky 10 months ago