Great, you are at least looking at the Bible. But, all the passages you have quoted except 2 are in the Old Testament which is "another issue" and has been fulfilled and taken away. (Hebrews 9:11-27). About I Tim., you failed to read vs. 12, 13. Again you failed to read the context of Titus 2:9. The reason for Paul's comment in vs.10.
Now that you have concentrated on what seems to be bad (but really isn't), how about reading the good. (Romans 5:6-11 and 6: 1-10)
Spiderman lives in New York city, New York is real so Spiderman is real.....The man lived through being swallowed by a whale shark because he was SCUBA diving and had an air supply...Don't go near sick people because you will get sick, oh wait but dove's blood doesn't cure lepers LEV 14: 1-8
You were doing OK till you started talking about Noah. You might rely on some parts of the bible as archeological source material. But when you talk about Noah.....now we're getting into geology. And that clearly shows that the Noachian Flood never happened. Maybe a local flood got inflated in the story telling? Sure, there's data that supports that. A GLOBAL FLOOD? LOL. No way.
Geology does not clearly show there was Noachian Flood. Since you have claimed it proves there was not Noachain flood, it is necessary for you to show your specific evidence. Since we are being honest with each other, I don't think you can. So prove me wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!1
@cootsfortruth Easily. Opeche Shale contains 9 trillion cu meters of evaporite salt. The chemistry and physics of such a deposit directly contradicts the flood myth on the basis of the amount of heat released during it's formation. Considering the fact that there are hundreds of such sites all over the world and the flood is falisifed by just one, Noah's little pleasure cruise as per a literal reading of Genesis is now part of Bullofinches Mythology. More YEC Fail.
You have one humongous problem with the Opeche Shale issue. It is sedimentary (water laid). If these deposits are found all over the world, what kind of flood (or series of floods) could have left such deposits all over the world? It would be logical that it was one flood, instead of hundreds of huge floods.
It is interesting that no evolutionary scientists mention the fact that almost all evidence for evolution is found in sediment (water laid) geological layers.
@cootsfortruth So I note that rather than try to refute the data, you try to change the subject to sedimentation in general. Could it be because that you have no idea what the real issues are? Shall I enlighten you? I'll address your general objections to basic sedimentation in the fullness of time. So let's begin: The Opeche Shale formation runs from the Dakotas to Texas and at the center in it's deepest part is a 91 m thick salt deposit.(continued)
Logic is an important part of any science. The water from the Noah flood was not buried. The solids were buried. The world was drastically changed by the pressures from inside the earth, rain from the surface sweeping over the mountains. Fresh water buried the solids over a period of 1 year.
You can see the destructive force of water alone in what has happened over the last few months. Image this happening all over the wrold at the same time.
There is no other explanation of geology than a water laid solution. The Opeche Shale formation could not have been laid down with long pariods of erosion. Even millions of years do not explain it. Especially when so called older geological layers are laid on top of younger layers. The Grand Canyon is a perfect example of this older/younger problem.
@cootsfortruth "Older-Younger Problem & Grand Canyon"? Now that's really sad. First of all it's just disappointing that you try to discuss an overthrust fault in a place where no such thing exists. Maybe you're thinking Glacier National Park? In any event, the sedimentary deposition of the Grand Canyon is interrupted by intrusive igneous formations thereby showing the greater age of the Colorado Plateau and the fact that this area was well above sea level. More YEC fail. No surprise there.
@cootsfortruth Hello, i am a believer in YEC and i just want to commend you on your efforts in debating one "NorthForkFisherman" but i would warn you that your efforts may be in vain. He is no doubt a learned man but just may so "edukated" that the indoctrination he has been victimized with is too great a barrier for him to ever see the light of truth in the matter.
Either that, or he is a knowing false theory evolution propagandizing YouTube troll preying on simple minds with his b.s..
Sorry NORTHFORKfish, i hate to explode your one piece of so-called evidence which u think refutes the biblical Deluge and so desperately cling to, but...
FOLKS, OPACHE SHALE of North Dakota is pre-Flood basin area strata. The Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
NORTHFORKFISHERMAN's wrestling with bad information but we'll clue him in and set him str8 soon enough!!
@SpencerBenedict2nd Bible packing Geologists went looking for evidence of a global flood over 200 years ago. They did not find any. They found distinct layers of different kinds of rock with different fossil in them. Floods don't do that. They discovered it must have taken millions of years to make what we see. They knew the earth was Millions of years old before radiometric dating was invented and showed it was Billions of years old.
There is a lot of evidence for the global flood, but it makes not difference to God haters.You are not reading the same books I am. You might read "The Genesis Flood" by Whitcomb and Morris, written by a geologist and theologian. Nothing I say will change your mind. So, I will leave with this: If the Bible is true, you have my profound sympathy. If the Bible is not true, both of us have no purpose in life but to die and become ferttilizer for a "somehow" remarkably "designed" world.
@cootsfortruth ''God haters'' I never said anything about God. I was talking about Geology, something you won't look at, just like you would look at the fossil record. Afraid of the TRUTH?
A God hater is someone who does not accept God's word. I have studied science and the fossil record for many years, and seen the serious problems equating science and evolution. When scientists twist (neutral) evidence to present a theory that is not true...because it is expedient, or they will be fired, I question their character. I am sure you know this, but many geologists do not agree with the theory of evolution. There are many books out supporting creation. Are you afraid of the truth?
Sorry NORTHFORKfish, i hate to explode your one piece of so-called evidence which u think refutes the biblical Deluge and so desperately cling to, but...
FOLKS, OPACHE SHALE of North Dakota is pre-Flood basin area strata. The Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
NORTHFORKFISHERMAN's wrestling with bad information but we'll clue him in and set him str8 soon enough!!
@cootsfortruth This salt contains no pollen from modern sources. All comes from Permian plants. Now the area of salt deposition is 188,400 sq km. Dividing by 2 to get the average thickness of about 45 meters. This equals about 9 trillion cu meters of NaCl. Now the density of salt is 2160 kg/cu meter, so this represents the evaporation of 540,000 cu km of seawater. (continued)
@cootsfortruth Assertions made without supporting evidence are dismissed just as fast. Provide data to support your conclusions, or don't. Opinion is worthless. Palynology is well established and exacting. The examination of data from this point also refutes and falsifies the flood story.
@cootsfortruth To evaporate this much sea water and leave the salt requires 10^24 joules of heat energy. That's more than twice enough to raise the temp of the Earth's atmosphere to 100 deg C. Ergo, Noah would've been cooked and all life extinguished. Of course, none of this matters with out data to back it up: Wilgus, Cheryl K. and William T. Holser, 1984. "Marine and Nonmarine Salts of Western Interior, United States," AAPG Bulletin. p. 765-766. (Continued)
Must not drink much well water, eh? All water drawn from aquifers carries dissolved minerals with it, indicating the geology in which it travels. The various ion concentration of such elements as bromine goes further to indicate where the originating solute came from. In many cases, marine. The Opeche, in contrast, was primarily second-cycle and reflected this in it's analysis. But you would know that if you actually took the time to study the issue rather than regurgitate YEC lies. Sad, really.
Where are the lies? I am responding to your assumptions. You have not answered your fresh water, salt water evaporation issue.
All I said was the Noah flood water was not salt water. What happens after the huge geological happenings caused by the Noah flood is a different issue. Since all animals except those in the ark were buried any water would have elements of their presence.
It does not change the reality that the Noah water was not salt water.
@cootsfortruth Assumptions? The fact that salt dissolves in water is hardly an assumption, it's a fact of chemistry. I've provided data to support my position, you've provided none. That's much to note, isn't it? now shall I keep driving home the nails in the coffin of this myth? How about pollen next, dear?
Sorry NORTHFORKfish, i hate to explode your one piece of so-called evidence which u think refutes the biblical Deluge and so desperately cling to, but...
FOLKS, OPACHE SHALE of North Dakota is pre-Flood basin area strata. The Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
NORTHFORKFISHERMAN's wrestling with bad information but we'll clue him in and set him str8 soon enough!!
@cootsfortruth And for the basic chemistry info, feel free to refer to any college chemistry text. It'll have all the table for heat of formation and evaporative processes. And this is just one evaporite deposit we've examined, there are hundreds just like it all over the world including anhydrites, caliches, and buried desert pavements.
Hundreds of salt layer sites all over the world supports the idea that a world-wide fresh water flood described in the Bible layed down the sedimentary layers.
If you are trying to defend the theory of evolution, where did the complex water and salt come from in the first place.
@cootsfortruth "Hundreds of salt layer sites all over the world supports the idea that a world-wide fresh water flood "? WTF? Salt dissolves in water. Can't tell if you're an Edgar Allen or just really, really special. /sarcasm. And for the record, we're discussing a question of geology, not biology, nor stellar nucelosythesis. Please stay on the subject. If you will not, I'll cut you loose.
Everyone knows salt disolves in water, but the question is where did the salt come from? Logic has been a one-way street in our conversation. Arguments about water, salt, canyons, geology, palynology, hydrology or any other ology will go on forever without two-way logic.
To boil it down, this conversation has been about evolution or creation. I did not choose to put my faith in the unproven theory of evolution. I hope your faith in evolution make you happy!
@cootsfortruth Wrong, this has been a very one sided exposition of the principles of geology, chemistry, physics, and math and how they all falsify the Noachian Flood myth. I've provided data with concordant references and stayed on subject while you have done the intellectual equvalent of shaking your head and going, "Un uh, 'cause I said so" like some petulant child. And when you've not been doing that you've tried to change the subecjt away from things that you cannot refute. (continued)
Yes, you have presented data, but it is flawed because of your insistance on believing the theory of evolution.
You presented an argument on the Apeche Shale based on sea water when it was really fresh water.
You refused to deal with the unquestioned evidence found in the Grand Canyon...probably because no evolutionist will honestly deal with it. There are signs in the canyon that admit this issue. (Continue)
I have refuted your comments with logic, and you have refused to respond and present more evidence. If you want evidence that the flood did happen, I can send you a mountain of stuff. But, you would most likely refuse it like you did the water and Grand Canyon issues.
I have spend the last 45 years discussing, and writing about the creation/evolution issue. No matter the issues, it can be refuted or just as easily be explained through creation. Whether we continue is up to you!
Coral layers and sand blown layers are still buried in sediment.
How do you explain the truth that there are missing layers in the Grand Canyon, and older layers on top of younger layers. And the layers on one side of the canyon do not match the layers on the other side. I do not know if it is still there, but there used to be a sign and the bottom of the canyon admitting this fact.
@cootsfortruth Wind blown sand layers ARE sediments. Not all sedimentry rock is from water.
When erosion happens it leaves an unconformity, a missing layer. 'Erosion marks' LOL
Plate tecktonics can flip layers over like an overthrust area.
The layers are the same on both sides, why don't you go there and look. I have hiked to the bottom 4 times, no signs at the bottom. Read a Geology book, the Grand Canyon is the most studied area in the world.
@cootsfortruth Sedimentary rock are types of rock that is formed by sedimentation of material at the Earth's surface. The Grand Canyon is made of Sedimentary ROCK, not sediments from a lake. The Coconino Sandstone came for sand from the air.
Which layer has the flood mud layer with all the dead bodies in it?
@cootsfortruth Yep, your dictionary is wrong. Also, ash settles in both air and water. As to examples of both, the Avalon Assemblage in Nova Scotia (major Ediacaran Fauna site) and Ashfall Fossil Beds in Nebraska. Because both these contain zircons it makes dating them so much easier.
Because of your reputation as a militant fighter for evolution we can go on and on without making progress. The real issue is whether the Bible is true or not. If the Bible is true, evolution is a myth. If the Bible is not true, we both have a dismal life to look forward to. I choose not to argue for a chace of a dismal life. I believe in God, because of his remarkable creation that cannot be the result of chance. And, God came to the earth as a sacrufice for may sins.
@cootsfortruth You are mistaking literal for truth. There may be deity of some kind, I grant you that much. But, most "holy books" are far from literal. They are meant more as inspiration and metaphor than as history or a science text. Kindly do not mistake one for the other. And the book of Genesis, as we've so amply demonstrated, is not a literal text. Take that for what you will. I do find it funny that I've got a "rep". That made me laugh. I'm just doing my part to further critical thinking.
I am glad we are sticking to the Bible theme. What other holy books are you talking about. The quran has many mistakes and other religions are for the most part spread by mouth. Who told you the Bible is for inspiration and metaphor? The Bible is an historcial book. The enemies of God have not found one error in the Bible historically or scientically. The most important history is that Jesus was a prophet, healer, was killed by the Romans, buried and raised from the dead.
@cootsfortruth You may be concerned with the texts, I am not. My background is the sciences, principally biology, but I do dabble in geology as there is quite the crossover from the chemistry and physics point of view. And it's from that vantage I can quite clearly say that the Bible is not a literal text. For example, the Noachian Flood simply did not happen as described.
@cootsfortruth The ‘Super Group’ of rocks in the Grand Canyon are below the level layers at the east end. These layers were laid down level, block faulted into mountains, worn flat, and then the Teapeats Sandstone was laid down over the basement layers. Then another 5000 feet of sediments was laid down, some wind blown desert sands, some corals. Then the area got raised to 8000 feet above sea level. Finally water flowing down hill cut the canyon. How long do you think this took?
Layers are miraculously block faulted into mountains, somehow worn flat, then sandstone was conveniently laid down. Then another amazing 5000 feet of sediment was laid down. Wow, I wonder what kind of flood would cause such a remarkable happening,
Then miraculously it was all raised 8000 feet (for your convenience) and finally the reverse water flow cut the canyons. There just isn't enough evidence of erosion to support your theory.This sounds like what the Noah flood would do.
@cootsfortruth My insistence is on the laws of chemistry, physics, and math which you seem to have little grounding in. You have not provided any bit of data to support your claims nor made any attempt to explain my data in such a way that could support your position other than your weak attempt at an argument from authority. It's easy for you to make claims, but when you can't even understand second-cycle versus primary-cycle salt it's obvious you're not more than a dilettante. I'm done here.
As you pray to your gods of chemistry, physics, hydrology, math and evolution, I would hope you mention my name dilettante. I'm sure they will bring you comfort and happiness.
@cootsfortruth They sure do for the entire world. Indeed, we would not be having this conversation if it were not for all these sciences coming together. What, did you think the internet came about by your bronze age magic man? It's hard work and a clear and through understanding of the processes and applications of modern science. The fact that you use these tools provided by the hard work of scientists simply shows you to be the hypocrite you are. Bye, duckling. It's been fun, at your expense.
@cootsfortruth 'the Noah flood water was not salt water'' So all the saltwater fish and whales and dolphins all died in the fresh water?!? Everything in the ocean would die, all the plakton that live in the oceans need.
@cootsfortruth Now since you show no logic, data, or even willingness to stay on the subject, you are free to go. But I'm going to drive home a few more nails in superstition's coffin with some pollen data. It's pretty ubiquitous now, blown in the air, but in sedimentary rock layers, it's a damning bit of evidence that YEcers try to ignore. Now the case I'm presenting here is that of Lake Marcaibo in Venezuela you find pollen in a very exacting pattern. (continued)
@cootsfortruth What is found in cores from that site, going all the way back to the Late Cretaceous, is a direct progression of species appearing, flourshing, going extinct, and being replaced over the breadth of time. Were a global flood to have occurred, all these species would be mixed together in a jumbled mess, not this nice neat pattern. And of course, you must have the reference dat to support it (continued)
@cootsfortruth Source: Valenti Rull, "High-Impact Palynology in Petroleum Geology: Applications from Venezuela" AAPG Bulletin 86(2002):2:279-300, p. 285. Now you have a nice day. If you still want to play, then we'll look at the biomass problem and all it's aspects. And of course, have some proof to back up your statements, neh? Oh, that's right, you don't have any.
@NorthForkFisherman PRE-FLOOD OPECHE SHALE of North Dakota formed in a basin area susceptible and prone to mild flash flooding creating shallow perennial & ephemeral saline lakes in a very arid climate in which evaporation was greater than precipitation. Over long periods of pre-Deluge time, Evaporation, Desiccation, Flooding, and Wind played significant roles in this environment. Therefore, the Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
Sorry NORTHFORKfish, i hate to explode your one piece of so-called evidence which u think refutes the biblical Deluge and so desperately cling to, but...
FOLKS, OPACHE SHALE of North Dakota is pre-Flood basin area strata. The Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
NORTHFORKFISHERMAN's wrestling with bad information but we'll clue him in and set him str8 soon enough!!
Sorry NORTHFORKfish, i hate to explode your one piece of so-called evidence which u think refutes the biblical Deluge and so desperately cling to, but...
FOLKS, OPACHE SHALE of North Dakota is pre-Flood basin area strata. The Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
NORTHFORKFISHERMAN's wrestling with bad information but we'll clue him in and set him str8 soon enough!!
By 6000 BC Egyptians in the southwestern corner of Egypt were herding cattle and constructing large buildings. Subsistence in organized and permanent settlements in predynastic Egypt by the middle of the 6th millennium BC centered predominantly on cereal and animal agriculture: cattle, goats, pigs and sheep. Metal objects replaced prior ones of stone. Tanning of animal skins, pottery and weaving are common. There are indications of seasonal occupation of the Al Fayyum in the 6th millennium BC.
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Does the bible say there was a global flood? Then it is wrong.
gregrutz 3 months ago
Great, you are at least looking at the Bible. But, all the passages you have quoted except 2 are in the Old Testament which is "another issue" and has been fulfilled and taken away. (Hebrews 9:11-27). About I Tim., you failed to read vs. 12, 13. Again you failed to read the context of Titus 2:9. The reason for Paul's comment in vs.10.
Now that you have concentrated on what seems to be bad (but really isn't), how about reading the good. (Romans 5:6-11 and 6: 1-10)
Unfortunately: no more room.
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
Let's look at some of God's morals, as written in the bible:
- If you work on a Sabbath, you should be killed [Exodus 31:15]
- If your son disobeys you, murder him [Deut 21:18 -21]
- Sell your daughter into slavery to pay the bills [Exodus 21:7]
- If your children curse you, kill them [Lev. 20:9]
- Women are subservient, they must remain silent [1 Tim 2:11-12]
- Slaves must perform any act you wish [Titus 2:9]
gregrutz 4 months ago
Spiderman lives in New York city, New York is real so Spiderman is real.....The man lived through being swallowed by a whale shark because he was SCUBA diving and had an air supply...Don't go near sick people because you will get sick, oh wait but dove's blood doesn't cure lepers LEV 14: 1-8
Spankyhs 9 months ago
@Spankyhs
All this is just simple gibberish
What is the point and where is the logic?
cootsfortruth 9 months ago
You were doing OK till you started talking about Noah. You might rely on some parts of the bible as archeological source material. But when you talk about Noah.....now we're getting into geology. And that clearly shows that the Noachian Flood never happened. Maybe a local flood got inflated in the story telling? Sure, there's data that supports that. A GLOBAL FLOOD? LOL. No way.
NorthForkFisherman 11 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
Geology does not clearly show there was Noachian Flood. Since you have claimed it proves there was not Noachain flood, it is necessary for you to show your specific evidence. Since we are being honest with each other, I don't think you can. So prove me wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!1
cootsfortruth 9 months ago
@cootsfortruth Easily. Opeche Shale contains 9 trillion cu meters of evaporite salt. The chemistry and physics of such a deposit directly contradicts the flood myth on the basis of the amount of heat released during it's formation. Considering the fact that there are hundreds of such sites all over the world and the flood is falisifed by just one, Noah's little pleasure cruise as per a literal reading of Genesis is now part of Bullofinches Mythology. More YEC Fail.
NorthForkFisherman 9 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
You have one humongous problem with the Opeche Shale issue. It is sedimentary (water laid). If these deposits are found all over the world, what kind of flood (or series of floods) could have left such deposits all over the world? It would be logical that it was one flood, instead of hundreds of huge floods.
It is interesting that no evolutionary scientists mention the fact that almost all evidence for evolution is found in sediment (water laid) geological layers.
Hmmmm!
cootsfortruth 9 months ago
@cootsfortruth So I note that rather than try to refute the data, you try to change the subject to sedimentation in general. Could it be because that you have no idea what the real issues are? Shall I enlighten you? I'll address your general objections to basic sedimentation in the fullness of time. So let's begin: The Opeche Shale formation runs from the Dakotas to Texas and at the center in it's deepest part is a 91 m thick salt deposit.(continued)
NorthForkFisherman 9 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
Logic is an important part of any science. The water from the Noah flood was not buried. The solids were buried. The world was drastically changed by the pressures from inside the earth, rain from the surface sweeping over the mountains. Fresh water buried the solids over a period of 1 year.
You can see the destructive force of water alone in what has happened over the last few months. Image this happening all over the wrold at the same time.
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
There is no other explanation of geology than a water laid solution. The Opeche Shale formation could not have been laid down with long pariods of erosion. Even millions of years do not explain it. Especially when so called older geological layers are laid on top of younger layers. The Grand Canyon is a perfect example of this older/younger problem.
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth "Older-Younger Problem & Grand Canyon"? Now that's really sad. First of all it's just disappointing that you try to discuss an overthrust fault in a place where no such thing exists. Maybe you're thinking Glacier National Park? In any event, the sedimentary deposition of the Grand Canyon is interrupted by intrusive igneous formations thereby showing the greater age of the Colorado Plateau and the fact that this area was well above sea level. More YEC fail. No surprise there.
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
Comment removed
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth Hello, i am a believer in YEC and i just want to commend you on your efforts in debating one "NorthForkFisherman" but i would warn you that your efforts may be in vain. He is no doubt a learned man but just may so "edukated" that the indoctrination he has been victimized with is too great a barrier for him to ever see the light of truth in the matter.
Either that, or he is a knowing false theory evolution propagandizing YouTube troll preying on simple minds with his b.s..
SpencerBenedict2nd 7 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
Sorry NORTHFORKfish, i hate to explode your one piece of so-called evidence which u think refutes the biblical Deluge and so desperately cling to, but...
FOLKS, OPACHE SHALE of North Dakota is pre-Flood basin area strata. The Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
NORTHFORKFISHERMAN's wrestling with bad information but we'll clue him in and set him str8 soon enough!!
Peace & God bless everyone!
SpencerBenedict2nd 7 months ago
@SpencerBenedict2nd Bible packing Geologists went looking for evidence of a global flood over 200 years ago. They did not find any. They found distinct layers of different kinds of rock with different fossil in them. Floods don't do that. They discovered it must have taken millions of years to make what we see. They knew the earth was Millions of years old before radiometric dating was invented and showed it was Billions of years old.
gregrutz 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gregrutz You know better than that, now kindly fuck-off.
SpencerBenedict2nd 4 months ago
@gregrutz
There is a lot of evidence for the global flood, but it makes not difference to God haters.You are not reading the same books I am. You might read "The Genesis Flood" by Whitcomb and Morris, written by a geologist and theologian. Nothing I say will change your mind. So, I will leave with this: If the Bible is true, you have my profound sympathy. If the Bible is not true, both of us have no purpose in life but to die and become ferttilizer for a "somehow" remarkably "designed" world.
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth ''God haters'' I never said anything about God. I was talking about Geology, something you won't look at, just like you would look at the fossil record. Afraid of the TRUTH?
gregrutz 4 months ago
A God hater is someone who does not accept God's word. I have studied science and the fossil record for many years, and seen the serious problems equating science and evolution. When scientists twist (neutral) evidence to present a theory that is not true...because it is expedient, or they will be fired, I question their character. I am sure you know this, but many geologists do not agree with the theory of evolution. There are many books out supporting creation. Are you afraid of the truth?
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth ''A God hater is someone who does not accept God's word.''
So if I accept the Quran I am not a god hater ??
'' I have studied science '' Watching a Kent Hovind video is not science. Have you read a Geology book?
gregrutz 4 months ago
The Quran is not God's Word.
Actually I have read two books about geology. One was written by an evolutionist. The other by a geolostist and a thealogian.
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
@SpencerBenedict2nd Pre flood? What Flood? There is no evidence for a global flood, none.
gregrutz 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gregrutz I know that already. You only have to tell me once.
SpencerBenedict2nd 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NorthForkFisherman
Sorry NORTHFORKfish, i hate to explode your one piece of so-called evidence which u think refutes the biblical Deluge and so desperately cling to, but...
FOLKS, OPACHE SHALE of North Dakota is pre-Flood basin area strata. The Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
NORTHFORKFISHERMAN's wrestling with bad information but we'll clue him in and set him str8 soon enough!!
Peace & God bless everyone!
SpencerBenedict2nd 7 months ago
@cootsfortruth This salt contains no pollen from modern sources. All comes from Permian plants. Now the area of salt deposition is 188,400 sq km. Dividing by 2 to get the average thickness of about 45 meters. This equals about 9 trillion cu meters of NaCl. Now the density of salt is 2160 kg/cu meter, so this represents the evaporation of 540,000 cu km of seawater. (continued)
NorthForkFisherman 9 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
There is no such thing as Permian plants. All plants were created at the same time.
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth Assertions made without supporting evidence are dismissed just as fast. Provide data to support your conclusions, or don't. Opinion is worthless. Palynology is well established and exacting. The examination of data from this point also refutes and falsifies the flood story.
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth To evaporate this much sea water and leave the salt requires 10^24 joules of heat energy. That's more than twice enough to raise the temp of the Earth's atmosphere to 100 deg C. Ergo, Noah would've been cooked and all life extinguished. Of course, none of this matters with out data to back it up: Wilgus, Cheryl K. and William T. Holser, 1984. "Marine and Nonmarine Salts of Western Interior, United States," AAPG Bulletin. p. 765-766. (Continued)
NorthForkFisherman 9 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
The Noah Flood was not sea salt. It was from water inside the earth and rain water.
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
Must not drink much well water, eh? All water drawn from aquifers carries dissolved minerals with it, indicating the geology in which it travels. The various ion concentration of such elements as bromine goes further to indicate where the originating solute came from. In many cases, marine. The Opeche, in contrast, was primarily second-cycle and reflected this in it's analysis. But you would know that if you actually took the time to study the issue rather than regurgitate YEC lies. Sad, really.
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
Where are the lies? I am responding to your assumptions. You have not answered your fresh water, salt water evaporation issue.
All I said was the Noah flood water was not salt water. What happens after the huge geological happenings caused by the Noah flood is a different issue. Since all animals except those in the ark were buried any water would have elements of their presence.
It does not change the reality that the Noah water was not salt water.
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth Assumptions? The fact that salt dissolves in water is hardly an assumption, it's a fact of chemistry. I've provided data to support my position, you've provided none. That's much to note, isn't it? now shall I keep driving home the nails in the coffin of this myth? How about pollen next, dear?
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
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@NorthForkFisherman
Sorry NORTHFORKfish, i hate to explode your one piece of so-called evidence which u think refutes the biblical Deluge and so desperately cling to, but...
FOLKS, OPACHE SHALE of North Dakota is pre-Flood basin area strata. The Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
NORTHFORKFISHERMAN's wrestling with bad information but we'll clue him in and set him str8 soon enough!!
Peace & God bless everyone!
SpencerBenedict2nd 7 months ago
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@cootsfortruth And for the basic chemistry info, feel free to refer to any college chemistry text. It'll have all the table for heat of formation and evaporative processes. And this is just one evaporite deposit we've examined, there are hundreds just like it all over the world including anhydrites, caliches, and buried desert pavements.
NorthForkFisherman 9 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
Hundreds of salt layer sites all over the world supports the idea that a world-wide fresh water flood described in the Bible layed down the sedimentary layers.
If you are trying to defend the theory of evolution, where did the complex water and salt come from in the first place.
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth "Hundreds of salt layer sites all over the world supports the idea that a world-wide fresh water flood "? WTF? Salt dissolves in water. Can't tell if you're an Edgar Allen or just really, really special. /sarcasm. And for the record, we're discussing a question of geology, not biology, nor stellar nucelosythesis. Please stay on the subject. If you will not, I'll cut you loose.
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
Everyone knows salt disolves in water, but the question is where did the salt come from? Logic has been a one-way street in our conversation. Arguments about water, salt, canyons, geology, palynology, hydrology or any other ology will go on forever without two-way logic.
To boil it down, this conversation has been about evolution or creation. I did not choose to put my faith in the unproven theory of evolution. I hope your faith in evolution make you happy!
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth Wrong, this has been a very one sided exposition of the principles of geology, chemistry, physics, and math and how they all falsify the Noachian Flood myth. I've provided data with concordant references and stayed on subject while you have done the intellectual equvalent of shaking your head and going, "Un uh, 'cause I said so" like some petulant child. And when you've not been doing that you've tried to change the subecjt away from things that you cannot refute. (continued)
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
Comment removed
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
Yes, you have presented data, but it is flawed because of your insistance on believing the theory of evolution.
You presented an argument on the Apeche Shale based on sea water when it was really fresh water.
You refused to deal with the unquestioned evidence found in the Grand Canyon...probably because no evolutionist will honestly deal with it. There are signs in the canyon that admit this issue. (Continue)
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth
I have refuted your comments with logic, and you have refused to respond and present more evidence. If you want evidence that the flood did happen, I can send you a mountain of stuff. But, you would most likely refuse it like you did the water and Grand Canyon issues.
I have spend the last 45 years discussing, and writing about the creation/evolution issue. No matter the issues, it can be refuted or just as easily be explained through creation. Whether we continue is up to you!
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth The Coconino Sandstone, the third layer down in the Grand Canyon, is from wind blown, desert sands.
We know this from the fossils in it. There are 44 Distinct layers of DIFFERENT KINDS OF ROCK exposed in the Grand Canyon.
Some are slow growing corals like in the Redwall limestone.
Floods don’t do that.
Not all sedimentary rock is from water! Like ash layers.
gregrutz 4 months ago
@gregrutz
Coral layers and sand blown layers are still buried in sediment.
How do you explain the truth that there are missing layers in the Grand Canyon, and older layers on top of younger layers. And the layers on one side of the canyon do not match the layers on the other side. I do not know if it is still there, but there used to be a sign and the bottom of the canyon admitting this fact.
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth Wind blown sand layers ARE sediments. Not all sedimentry rock is from water.
When erosion happens it leaves an unconformity, a missing layer. 'Erosion marks' LOL
Plate tecktonics can flip layers over like an overthrust area.
The layers are the same on both sides, why don't you go there and look. I have hiked to the bottom 4 times, no signs at the bottom. Read a Geology book, the Grand Canyon is the most studied area in the world.
gregrutz 4 months ago
@gregrutz
I guess the dictionary is wrong. It says sediment is "matter that settled to the bottom of liquid".
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
@gregrutz
I guess the dictionary is wrong. It says sediment is "matter that settled to the bottom of liquid". Ash settled in air.
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth Sedimentary rock are types of rock that is formed by sedimentation of material at the Earth's surface. The Grand Canyon is made of Sedimentary ROCK, not sediments from a lake. The Coconino Sandstone came for sand from the air.
Which layer has the flood mud layer with all the dead bodies in it?
gregrutz 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth Yep, your dictionary is wrong. Also, ash settles in both air and water. As to examples of both, the Avalon Assemblage in Nova Scotia (major Ediacaran Fauna site) and Ashfall Fossil Beds in Nebraska. Because both these contain zircons it makes dating them so much easier.
NorthForkFisherman 4 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
Because of your reputation as a militant fighter for evolution we can go on and on without making progress. The real issue is whether the Bible is true or not. If the Bible is true, evolution is a myth. If the Bible is not true, we both have a dismal life to look forward to. I choose not to argue for a chace of a dismal life. I believe in God, because of his remarkable creation that cannot be the result of chance. And, God came to the earth as a sacrufice for may sins.
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth You are mistaking literal for truth. There may be deity of some kind, I grant you that much. But, most "holy books" are far from literal. They are meant more as inspiration and metaphor than as history or a science text. Kindly do not mistake one for the other. And the book of Genesis, as we've so amply demonstrated, is not a literal text. Take that for what you will. I do find it funny that I've got a "rep". That made me laugh. I'm just doing my part to further critical thinking.
NorthForkFisherman 4 months ago
NorthFork Fisherman.
I am glad we are sticking to the Bible theme. What other holy books are you talking about. The quran has many mistakes and other religions are for the most part spread by mouth. Who told you the Bible is for inspiration and metaphor? The Bible is an historcial book. The enemies of God have not found one error in the Bible historically or scientically. The most important history is that Jesus was a prophet, healer, was killed by the Romans, buried and raised from the dead.
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth You may be concerned with the texts, I am not. My background is the sciences, principally biology, but I do dabble in geology as there is quite the crossover from the chemistry and physics point of view. And it's from that vantage I can quite clearly say that the Bible is not a literal text. For example, the Noachian Flood simply did not happen as described.
NorthForkFisherman 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth The ‘Super Group’ of rocks in the Grand Canyon are below the level layers at the east end. These layers were laid down level, block faulted into mountains, worn flat, and then the Teapeats Sandstone was laid down over the basement layers. Then another 5000 feet of sediments was laid down, some wind blown desert sands, some corals. Then the area got raised to 8000 feet above sea level. Finally water flowing down hill cut the canyon. How long do you think this took?
gregrutz 4 months ago
@gregrutz
Layers are miraculously block faulted into mountains, somehow worn flat, then sandstone was conveniently laid down. Then another amazing 5000 feet of sediment was laid down. Wow, I wonder what kind of flood would cause such a remarkable happening,
Then miraculously it was all raised 8000 feet (for your convenience) and finally the reverse water flow cut the canyons. There just isn't enough evidence of erosion to support your theory.This sounds like what the Noah flood would do.
cootsfortruth 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth My insistence is on the laws of chemistry, physics, and math which you seem to have little grounding in. You have not provided any bit of data to support your claims nor made any attempt to explain my data in such a way that could support your position other than your weak attempt at an argument from authority. It's easy for you to make claims, but when you can't even understand second-cycle versus primary-cycle salt it's obvious you're not more than a dilettante. I'm done here.
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
As you pray to your gods of chemistry, physics, hydrology, math and evolution, I would hope you mention my name dilettante. I'm sure they will bring you comfort and happiness.
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth They sure do for the entire world. Indeed, we would not be having this conversation if it were not for all these sciences coming together. What, did you think the internet came about by your bronze age magic man? It's hard work and a clear and through understanding of the processes and applications of modern science. The fact that you use these tools provided by the hard work of scientists simply shows you to be the hypocrite you are. Bye, duckling. It's been fun, at your expense.
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth 'the Noah flood water was not salt water'' So all the saltwater fish and whales and dolphins all died in the fresh water?!? Everything in the ocean would die, all the plakton that live in the oceans need.
gregrutz 4 months ago
@cootsfortruth Now since you show no logic, data, or even willingness to stay on the subject, you are free to go. But I'm going to drive home a few more nails in superstition's coffin with some pollen data. It's pretty ubiquitous now, blown in the air, but in sedimentary rock layers, it's a damning bit of evidence that YEcers try to ignore. Now the case I'm presenting here is that of Lake Marcaibo in Venezuela you find pollen in a very exacting pattern. (continued)
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth What is found in cores from that site, going all the way back to the Late Cretaceous, is a direct progression of species appearing, flourshing, going extinct, and being replaced over the breadth of time. Were a global flood to have occurred, all these species would be mixed together in a jumbled mess, not this nice neat pattern. And of course, you must have the reference dat to support it (continued)
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth Source: Valenti Rull, "High-Impact Palynology in Petroleum Geology: Applications from Venezuela" AAPG Bulletin 86(2002):2:279-300, p. 285. Now you have a nice day. If you still want to play, then we'll look at the biomass problem and all it's aspects. And of course, have some proof to back up your statements, neh? Oh, that's right, you don't have any.
NorthForkFisherman 8 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman PRE-FLOOD OPECHE SHALE of North Dakota formed in a basin area susceptible and prone to mild flash flooding creating shallow perennial & ephemeral saline lakes in a very arid climate in which evaporation was greater than precipitation. Over long periods of pre-Deluge time, Evaporation, Desiccation, Flooding, and Wind played significant roles in this environment. Therefore, the Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
SpencerBenedict2nd 7 months ago
@NorthForkFisherman
Sorry NORTHFORKfish, i hate to explode your one piece of so-called evidence which u think refutes the biblical Deluge and so desperately cling to, but...
FOLKS, OPACHE SHALE of North Dakota is pre-Flood basin area strata. The Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
NORTHFORKFISHERMAN's wrestling with bad information but we'll clue him in and set him str8 soon enough!!
Peace & God bless everyone!
SpencerBenedict2nd 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NorthForkFisherman
Sorry NORTHFORKfish, i hate to explode your one piece of so-called evidence which u think refutes the biblical Deluge and so desperately cling to, but...
FOLKS, OPACHE SHALE of North Dakota is pre-Flood basin area strata. The Opeche evaporites and red beds are representative of an ancient saline pan system pre-Bible Flood.
NORTHFORKFISHERMAN's wrestling with bad information but we'll clue him in and set him str8 soon enough!!
Peace & God bless everyone!
SpencerBenedict2nd 7 months ago
By 6000 BC Egyptians in the southwestern corner of Egypt were herding cattle and constructing large buildings. Subsistence in organized and permanent settlements in predynastic Egypt by the middle of the 6th millennium BC centered predominantly on cereal and animal agriculture: cattle, goats, pigs and sheep. Metal objects replaced prior ones of stone. Tanning of animal skins, pottery and weaving are common. There are indications of seasonal occupation of the Al Fayyum in the 6th millennium BC.
gregrutz 2 years ago
lol is the talking donkey true too?
cannibalgourmet 2 years ago
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