Handel: G. Cesare "Al lampo dell'armi" Andreas Scholl (live)

[luispaulinotico]

DUDAS O COMNTARIOS SOBRE LA VOZ DE CONTRATENOR CUAL QUIER PREGUNTA luis_paulino_tico@hotmail.com a cual quier hora. yo los orientare en cualquier pregunta sobre contratenor, soprano o contralto

[ModernBrandon]

i don't care what all of you are talking about.... i'm too distracted by that harpsichordist! That player needs to lay off a bit!

[MarcoAJuarez]

@Gabepaullikegirls This part was written for that kind of voice...

[ratboygenius]

holy s#@t.

[nimrodJohn2009]

A 'stonkerino!' Senensino was reported to sing with a clear alto voice with little ornamentation; he hardly needed it here, did he! Was he worth 2000 guineas a year in 1724? Definitely!

Thank you for providing the music. It shows just how tricky it is. Kind regards, NimrodJohn2009

[jacktenor]

hi there...i have not heard you sing civileso but good for you for doing it...i think its wonderful when one can do things that you truely love and whatever and however it sounds...as long as it comes from the heart, that is all that matters...i am a bodybuilder who have discovered i have a falsetto and i have one thing on here and allthough i was nervous i did it from my heart and i dont care what people think...so just go for it!!!

[saintandrews84]

I think if you can sing this then u can sing anything , once again Andreas is in the zone !

[TheMrDddreess112]

hello! would you like to do a video of léo delibes' flower duette like this one? i would be so happy and i'm sure other people would appreciate it too! thank you so much for videos like this!

regards.

[Kraviotho]

best interoetation 6/5!!!

[Isbild]

wwooow! thats hard!

[youji82]

where can I get this recording?!!!

[kiruz84]

brrrr... ich hab jetz auch schon ne ganze weile rumgesucht und nicht wirklich was gefunden :-( hoffe mal hier eldet sich noch wer............. i`ve searched for it a whole time. didnt fint it. damn i hope someone will write something, helping us find a recording :-)

[civileso]

Sorry guys, I replied very late, but this was a radio broadcast that I recorded myself, not a commercial recording. You may possibly be able to find it posted on some baroque music forums such as Musica Antiqva or posted on a blog somewhere. But I have no clue where... Other than that, there is Scholl's "Arias for Senesino" album that contains this aria. You can easily find that one.

[acanthe83]

C'est musical, mais comment peut on camper raisonnablement le grandissime Jules César avec une voix aussi petite étroite ??

[mocmus]

Parce-que Tous les héros d'opéra dans la période baroque étaient castrati.

[acanthe83]

9a n'a absolument rien à voir, j'ai entendu (2 fois) des contre ténors avec des voix très puissantes : là ça devient possible, mais pour Sholl, non. C'est le même problème pour toutes les tessitures : faire de l'opéra demande avant tout un minimum de volume et de puissance-qu'avaient tous les castrats restés célèbres

[mocmus]

Vous êtes entièrement correct--mais parce-que Scholl a une telle grande technique, je suppose ce soit pourquoi il (gets away with) part avec un plus petit bruit.

[Jisarzi]

Oh, master Scholl is really brilliant! love it <3

[Thrax1982]

Good God what an argument are you having here!!!

:D

Can't say that I agree with any of the positions presented here.

1. Scholl (falsettist or not) is my favorite ct

2. Those so called "head voice" counters are not my cup of tea.

3. You are a natural soprano and alto only if you cannot sing tenor, baritone or bass and there are only handful of men like this around.

[NicolinoXVIII]

haha, I would say THE LESS BAD OF THE 3!!!!!

WOMEN ARE BETTER OK, BUT THEN COME ....you know who(NOT THE CASTRATI).... and the worse is SCHOLL!! THE FALSETTISTS!! AHHAHA you got me now?? ahaha

whatever, as I said...IF YOU LIKE HIM, LIKE HIM....but If you say the less bad, WHAT THE HECK IS SCHOLL SINGING THERE OR ALL THE FALSETTO COUNTERS?? haha

whatever haha.

and i said, arturo escorza's SPEAKING VOICE.

and castrati did not sound female, rather childish BUT NOT FALSETTOoooooOOooO

[MehdiCaps]

Oh, let's not talk about Arturo Escorza's speaking voice, please.

[Thrax1982]

You should use less "all caps" when posting, it appears as shouting to others and undermines your credibility.

[NicolinoXVIII]

And Who was talking about doing FEMALE ROLES???? WTF???????

perhaps castrati female roles only.

[MehdiCaps]

I didn't say that. I said: let women sing the roles written for castrati: you'll never be as good as them, even your "technique", although even them are not as good as the castrati were. So maybe the less bad of the two should take the job?

[NicolinoXVIII]

and to know about castrati THERE ARE CASTRATO RECORDINGS!! THERE ARE NATURAL HIGH SINGERS EVERYWHERE!!! THERE ARE BOOKS!!!!! EXCAVATIONS THAT SAY HOW THEIR LARYNX WHERE , BOOKS THAT SAY HOW THEIR CHORDS AND VOICE WHERE! well, everything!! I guess you have to investigate a little my boy Mehdicaps.

[MehdiCaps]

Your boy MehdiCaps could be your father, and kick your butt. Also, he posted a documentary about castrati that explains all that, and only tells you that you're giving to "falsetto" a meaning it has not. That's why it's so funny to make you repeat and repeat your (or your teacher's) badly worded theory, like a broken records.

[NicolinoXVIII]

omg we are talking about the same thing, and we actually agree hahah.

Look...most of counters and sopranist, use falsetto IN ALL of his register ok?like scholl, or jaroussky.

because they are not natural or CLASSIC CT.

Mehta, or marian. CAN USE their CHILD VOICE..that means, head voice..YES, in they HIGHEST notes THEY USE THE FALSETTO, but only in the highest.

SCHOLL AND ALL THE OTHER M*RONS USE FALSETTO IN THE WHOLE DAMN SINGING REGISTER, because THEY CAN'T USE CHILD HEAD VOICE EVER!

[NicolinoXVIII]

Mehta, Marian, OR EVEN I!!!!!

use " FAUSSET" only IN THE HIGHEST NOTES!

LIKE DAMN CASTRATI DID!!

my teacher says anyone can do that..

SHE says everyone has kept his child head register through puberty(its just hidden), BUT IT SEEMS some do...most don't.

I guess I'm lucky then! And mehta too! And marian too! And cencic too!

And all the rest not! whatever...

I thought it was normal TO HAVE KEPT THE CHILD HEAD REGISTER, SEEMS I'M NOT, OK THANKS, SO IM SPECIAL, THANK YOU MEHDICAPS, REALLY.

[NicolinoXVIII]

I dont think you can kick by butt, CAN YOU SING ANYTHING AT ALL BESIDES TALKING? ...And besides FRENCH dont have the right to talk ANYTHING about castrati, they rejected the entrance to their country for the entire history!!!. My teacher is italian and knows bel canto and old italian technique, french dont know sh*t about singing.

[MehdiCaps]

I can sing from baritone to mezzo-soprano (up to a high B flat), but that doesn't make me special, and I don't feel the need to yell it on the Internet and compare myself with famous singers. Tessitura is nothing.

This thing about "natural altos" is a joke to me. Only Radu Marian is one. And maybe Patrick Husson.

Now, instead of saying you're the shit, maybe you should upload videos of you singing, and let them speak by themselves? Kthxbye.

[NicolinoXVIII]

I guess you have been singing for thousand years ahah I have only started from CERO 1 year ago haha if you want to listen to me,

there you go

myspace/koshmusik

see ya

I want to hear your nice non falsetto with depth, naturality and musical delicate expressiveness and dramatical brave sweetness-yet angelical and innocent MEZZOSOPRANO , may I?? :)

[civileso]

I heard you on your myspace. Now cut this angelic crap and learn to sing first. All this "non falsetto with depth, naturality and musical delicate expressiveness and dramatical brave sweetness-yet angelical and innocent MEZZOSOPRANO" you talk about DOES NOT come through in your whiny weakling squeal. I do "sing". I'm not a great singer but at least I don't pretend to be special or angelic or whatever the hell you call your non-voice. Good luck finding a listener, you are a weirdo my friend.

[NicolinoXVIII]

I did NOT say I am that! I said HE was that haha but ironicaly, im not mezzo Im "natural" sopranist

Male soprano is the same range as female mezzo =P

Male mezzo is quite lower. I cant do that

As for my singing, I have started 1 YEAR AGO.

AND YOU?5 YEARS?10?

[civileso]

No, last year. And all by myself without a friggin "bel canto" teacher.

[MehdiCaps]

Male soprano = female mezzo? What are you saying? (Stop smoking, and stop yelling, please.)

I said high B flat: is it lower than a female mezzo's highest note for you? I can sing any soprano aria without a high C (in other words: most of them). Only I don't, because I'm a baritone and don't pretend to be a natural alto or soprano like some deluded kids.

[Counterten0r]

I'm going waste my time arguing about your...Theories, in short I agree mostly with Civileso and Mehdicaps.

But, I feel you need to be educated; you are using a compressed falsetto mechanism, which produces a stretched sound. I'd suggest relaxing your larynx when singing, because you're going to cause yourself internal damage. Noticed how you can't sustain your voice for long and can't sing the full arias/songs? Get used to it if you keep to your current techniques. I agree; wobble.

[Thrax1982]

Add Medina to that list, he is basically a castrato, the surgeons knife just happened to be chemical in his case.

[civileso]

Geez, Nicolino! Get a grip and a dictionary! There was an archeological dig where they found a castrato larynx? Sure. What an illusion! Technique is always the same, only thing that changes is how well you execute it. No matter what you sing, with what kind of voice you sing it. There are those who suck at it, those who excel and those who pretend to know when they don't. That's all. About teachers: those who can't do, teach. Don't trust them with your vocal chords too much. And stop yelling!

[NicolinoXVIII]

of course , they found a castrato skellet, and farinell's too! where do you live? in a cage?

A spanish castrato was found besides the intention of finding a famous old tenor.

the larynx(or the chords i dont remember now) was that of a boy, a bit bigger than of a female.

DID YOU EVEN KNO...ok did you even know that castrati where first in spain? in year 1500?

and they where called CAPONES or CANTORES CASTRADOS and not castrati, of course.

and the last was until 1880.

[MehdiCaps]

Couldn't be the chords. They're not made of bones.

[NicolinoXVIII]

and there are ppl who are learning to sing, there are ppl who are teachers, and there are falsettist, and there are ppl WHO JUST TALK

Technique is not the same...there is falsetto and there is NON FALSETTO haha. sorry.

There is bel canto and there is IN MASCHERA/NASAL alias SCHOLL haha.

and there is female techique or there is male soprano...that is a new thing I have to mix.

What can YOU do Civileso???

What can Mehdicaps do?? Can HE SING in falsetto with no depht screaming mezzo? hahah

[MehdiCaps]

I've now heard you sing (I mean, wobble) on MySpace.

1) Terrible. Nella-Anfusesque, with some Florence-Foster-Jenkinesque aspects.

2) Falsetto (in any sense you want to give to the word).

Now, think you're Marian if you want, but sincerely you're going nowhere like this.

[NicolinoXVIII]

but as i said, IF YOU LIKE SCHOLL, LIKE HIM, LOVE HIM!! DO IT!!!

but dont tell me ITS MY THEORY! IT IS LIKE THAT, IT IS ON TEACHER'S KNOWLEDGE = FALSETTO IS FALSETTO haahha. sorry...

[NicolinoXVIII]

OK perhaps they call it falsetto for males because they are suposed to be non natural altos or sopranists,and they are on their top and they dont sound good.

But some males have head voice,and are natural altos or sopranists.I'm natural sopranist/mezzo

Mehta is natural alto.Daniels is too.Because he HAS HEAD VOICE,like female or child ,not falsetto

But you can become that FROM TRAINING also, its not only PURE GIFT

ITS NOT A THEORY OF MINE, I HAVE A SOPRANO BEL CANTO TEACHER,DO YOU HAVE ANY?

[civileso]

This pseudo-scientific castrati technique/larynx speech is a lot of nonsense. They apparently had a totally different sound which we can never know how they produced precisely. All we know is that they had a different physical/hormonal disposition which nobody has now. All accounts indicate that they didn't sound like a woman or a child, but stronger, brighter and more resonant. This is something no male soprano or alto can even pretend to have, whether they mix it with head voice or pixie dust

[NicolinoXVIII]

OMG!! havent you heard of JAVIER MEDINA??

listen to him on youtube

HE HAD TO BE CASTRATED AT CHILDHOOD BECAUSE OTHERWISE HE WOULD HAVE DIED!! HE HAD A DISEASE!!

HE LIVED IN MEXICO IN A POOR ZONE, GUESS thats why they did that.. I know another guy from venezuela, they did that to him too, they kept doing castrations for medical purpouses nowadays in poor 3rd world countries. IM FROM ARGENTINA! so I know this crap.

You really dont know Sh*t Ma'am... =)

[NicolinoXVIII]

and there are cases of non fully developed males, natural sopranists or altos, like daniels, mehta, maniaci, AND ME!

You can hear my speaking voice in my space

there is another called Arturo escorza, from mexico, haute contre, listen to his speaking on youtube.

Daniels was examined while singing HIGH, HIS FULL CHORDS SURFACE WHERE USED,HE COULD NOT BELIEVE IT AND HE DENIED IT!

you cant even NOTICE IN SOUND?? ARE YOU DEAF??

you anglosaxons are crazy.daniels would not accept he is special.

[MehdiCaps]

Alas, I have already heard Arturo Escorza singing. Very annoying voice. He says "haute-contre": another misused word. Hautes-contre are light tenors using head voice for the higher register. So they're certainly not high voices using chest, they're exactly the contrary.

Now maybe as a Frenchman, I'm allowed by Your Majesty to talk about hautes-contre? ;)

[MehdiCaps]

Yes, Nicolino. Do you really pretend to sound anything like a castrato with your technique? You're fooling yourself. Castrati were WAY more impressive than the most impressive female sopranos. Good luck. Let women sing their roles, maybe? Thanks in advance.

[NicolinoXVIII]

Children, females and counters/sopranists use chest voice also on lower octave, but mixed, with head voice, ok classic old school counters like scholl mix it with FALSETTO . not HEAD VOICE.

If males use pure chest voice, it goes to tenor, or baritone etc.

Children or female cant do that.

Falsetto also sounds like A WEAK head voice.

what females do from c6, is not falsetto, it is called another thing, that is above head voice, head voice is the notes from c5 to c6, up from there its wistle.

[NicolinoXVIII]

I know this technique Scholl uses is much very older, like from middle age, in whole Europe, the official countertenors...

But then came castrati, and hade different voices, and now some Male are learning and DO sing like female/child because now they CANT CASTRATE ahah, and also, because Now there are better knowledge of techniques that in S.XVIII where not known. ( because they did not even let women sing )

And this is an aria FOR CASTRATO!!

but whatever....tastes are tastes...

[NicolinoXVIII]

I know Manzotti sings very bad, but his voice technique is just right. Too bad he has bad singing ear haha.

And...Also in head voice, mixing with chest bellow c5, like a female or child does, you get FULL HARMONICS sounds, like a real person, not like a PLAIN AMPLIFIED SOUND, like it was a ... FLUTE? hah lol. You get harmonics like you where a tenor or bass or a female or a castrato. or a superb wonder child because you use all the surface of chords, NOT ONLY BORDER= falsetto.

[shinjitsu85]

OMG!!! His runs are soooooo freaking clean. WOW!!!

[NicolinoXVIII]

this is just how one must NOT do it :)

[gehaktmolen]

NOT? Hahah, i think he knows better than you how to sing old music. He is one of a kind.

[NicolinoXVIII]

pffffff

He surely knows how to READ music( and hit notes) better than me, but not how to SING music, and of course he can sing Old music (That means ENGLISH FALSETTO COUNTERS) and not ANTICHE CASTRATI REPERTOIRE TECHINQUE) READ= non falsetto)

and that I can do better for sure..I can show you If you want..Others do also, like Daniels, Mehta, Dumaux, etc...

He is one of a kind= How does he dare to sing castrati opera in FALSETTO?? for god's sake.

KEEP TO PURCELL!! KEEP TO BACH!!

Greetings !

[gehaktmolen]

So you think these aria's shouldn't be sung? Because there are no castratos anymore.. That would be a pitty. I'm happy Scholl wants to sing this. I don't care about the fucking official technique, i care about the music itself..

[NicolinoXVIII]

Also....In falsetto, the whole lenght of the chords are used, so its sounds with adult sound, like a male child, in head voice mixing with chest or not, the chords are shortened, and it rather sounds child/woman.Like castrato.

Example: The counters I said, that have to be baritone to be altos, or, Angelo manzotti, Max Cencic, Randall Wong, etc, in sopranists.

But not Jaroussky or Christofellis.

And the music Itself should sound NICE , Scholl himself is only specialized in bach and sacred...

[NicolinoXVIII]

I know Manzotti sings very bad, but his voice technique is just right. Too bad he has bad singing ear haha.

And...Also in head voice, mixing with chest bellow c5, like a female or child does, you get FULL HARMONICS sounds, like a real person, not like a PLAIN AMPLIFIED SOUND, like it was a ... FLUTE? hah lol. You get harmonics like you where a tenor or bass or a female or a castrato. or a superb wonder child because you use all the surface of chords, NOT ONLY BORDER= falsetto.

[MehdiCaps]

The only borderline thing there is your theory.

[MehdiCaps]

"Also....In falsetto, the whole lenght of the chords are used, so its sounds with adult sound, like a male child, in head voice mixing with chest or not, the chords are shortened, and it rather sounds child/woman.Like castrato."

Maybe you should learn English before trying to explain anything in this language? Just a suggestion.

"Scholl himself is only specialized in bach and sacred."

Yeah, his Handel cantatas and arias are so Bach and so sacred. Not to mention his Dowland songs.

[MehdiCaps]

Your excellency Nicolino XVIII, please tell us how you know that the castrati did not use falsetto for their higher register? They probably did, just like female sopranos do.

[NicolinoXVIII]

OMFG!! i cant read about this IGNORANCE!! hahha lol hahaha...

Castrati did not have FALSETTO neither have female! HAHAH..because they have no B*LLS!!! hahah

so they dont have voice break to male voice hahah. And counters like mehta or daniels, dont use falsetto but head voice with chest voice, wich is, what castrati and woman have, head voice is the child voice, the unbroken voice, falsetto is a weak head false voice, in wich you use only the border of your chords and not the whole surface..

[MehdiCaps]

Hmm, yeah, right, in your theory. Falsetto is simply head voice, period. All other theories are far fetched to me. To produce a high C, a soprano has to use falsetto, that is to say head voice. The fact that the term falsetto is mostly (but not only) used for male singers doesn't change the fact that women also use it.

And about castrati, how do you know that? We simply have no way to know exactly what they did. Do you have the larynx of a castrato in a bottle, or something?

[NicolinoXVIII]

OMG you dont even know the difference between falsetto and head voice hah, try to look for it in a book. or ask a teacher.

And then read again what I wrote.

Falsetto is what i said it was.

Women cant do falsetto as they dont have male PURE CHEST voice. Head voice is the child voice that have boys and females at all age. Castrati technique counters and sopranists use the child voice/head voice not falsetto.

[MehdiCaps]

"you dont even know the difference between falsetto and head voice"

No, you give to "falsetto" a meaning it has not. Falsetto is Italian for the 12th-century French word Fausset, which only means the voice of a man imitating a woman WITH WATHEVER TECHNIQUE ("Fausset. C'est cette espèce de voix par laquelle un homme, sortant à l'aigu du diapason de sa voix naturelle, imite celle de la femme." - Jean-Jacques Rousseau, 1767).

[MehdiCaps]

I know there are theories that differentiate two kinds of countertenor techniques, but calling one "head voice" and the other one "falsetto" is simply bad use of historical terms. Call them "bad falsetto" and "good falsetto", maybe? Even Radu Marian uses falsetto for his highest notes. Yes, you know, "fausset" in the meaning it had for 9 centuries until you came to enlighten us. ;) Even castrati, for Handel's sake, because they didn't completely keep their child voice.

[MehdiCaps]

"Head voice is the child voice that have boys and females at all age."

They resort to it for high register only. It's not their natural voice. Of the two octaves of the soprano, the lowest one is not produced with head voice.

[CountertenorJ]

I hate to interject into a very long-dead argument, but technically falsetto is not head voice. Falsetto, as it is currently known, is a male-only vocal phenomenon where the full adduction of circothyroid muscles do not happen, resulting in slightly bowed-looking cords. This allows the escape of much air and is a primary reason countertenors have less resonance and breath longevity when compared to "full voiced" male singers. Falsetto, in the past, was a tonal term. It is now technical.

[CountertenorJ]

Females, as it has been studied thusly, do not exhibit signs of falsetto. Their cords fully adduct in all parts of their voice (assuming adequate training). The one exception that I could postulate would be in the female whistle register, though I have not dove too far into that due to the supreme lack of women who can consistently utilize said register.

[Heartlessiceboy]

Well actually "countertenorJ" you are talking about a untrained falsetto a countertenor with a good technique have more resonance that a tenor,bariton or bass with less fiato. So a "full voiced" tenor needs more fiato to full a concert hall that a countertenor...and if you say that falsetto make vocal chords to let air escape thats because your chords are not sealing well but that is not normal,maybe you push too much air or have a vocal chord lesion

[Heartlessiceboy]

There are like so may myths and prejudices about countertenors(that many times are even from sing teachers...specially old ones) the air escaping and the little sound just to be like my most terrible vocal problem,in my case was psycholigical thing cause i was afraid all the time to not have enough volume so i pushed too much air and a countertenor doesn't need that much air our lungs are bigger and our bones are bigger too than a mezzo or a contralto and the excess of air don't let the chords

[Heartlessiceboy]

to seal ok,from the air you usually use for a certain aria you only need the half of that air you normally use.

So it is fake that a countertenor have less resonance and fiato that any other singer.

[kiokioyt]

magnifique

[k0229071]

His voice is just unbelieveable. I love it.