Bottom line there is no one that has filled the shoes left behind by Michael Jordan up until today!!!!!! and no kobe or anyother weenie is going to do it !!!! Hopefully the future will bring us one because he was awesome too watch!!! Thanks MJ from a childhood fan!!!!!!!
@antav9 Are you stupid? Michael Jordan averaged 31 points a game, he also retired in the middle of his career for three years. Kobe has never been able to block like Michael, dunk like michael, putback shots like michael, and is definitely not able to do the incredible things michael did. Michael has broken through double teams and still make clutch shots that kobe has trouble doing. Michael also is notorious for making shots even though he has been brutally fouled. You are joking right?
@TheKagutsuchi100 Jordan averaged 30.1 ppg for his career not 31. You didn't ask me if I'm stupid then post a non-fact right afterwards??? I'll assume you were not talking about his career average, ok?Jordan also led the NBA in "Field Goal Attempts per Game" for 9 years, more than any player in history (a fact I never hear the Jordan lovers mention). As far as Kobe doing what MJ did there are plenty of examples, look at youtube video "MJ/Kobe What's the difference" if you care to.
@antav9 MJ took a ton of shots over the course of his career, but why not if he's going to shoot nearly 50% and basically score at will. What most people fail to mention when they look at both players' careers is the defensive end of the floor, where MJ was one of the best ever with three steals titles, a DPOY award, and the most blocks by a guard in NBA history. His playoff numbers are sick when you consider the competition is consistently tougher than the reg. season - highest pt avg all-time.
while i completely agree with you on the chamberlain/russell thing, i can't say yes on the shaq thing because he falls to the same circumstances. shaq is 7'1 and HUGE. he dwarfed every center he played against even if they were the same height. he just used power, not so much basketball skill to dominate. i still lean towards Kareem as the greatest with Shaq and Russell either second or third
@NATEakaScooter see thats an issue if you are forgetting somebody in the discussion of best all time, you never leave out MJ's name. Who says "oh yeah, i forgot about michael." It doesnt happen!
@markamoreno1 because it's MICHAEL JORDAN. Hakeem was a great center, but is also forgettable in the grand scheme of things. he didn't dominate the position, let alone the sport. he had equals during his time. MJ had no equal and still doesn't. I think Hakeem is a great player, but you can't get upset about me forgetting about him. shit, HE probably forgot about him, lol
In all respect to Michael Jordan, I don't really think he is the best of ALL TIME but the best of his time Think about it. He has never played against those against before him(but we all know he's better than everyone who plays now). He was the dominate force of his time. But that doesn't make him the "best". If that was the case in a few years people will be saying guys like Derrick Rose, LeBron James(even though I dislike him) etc will the the "best" of all time. Just something to think about.
@KingKinfo yeah douche but the difference is Jordan was playing back when you could still play defense in the NBA now a days they call everything, its a joke.NEVER SPEAK SUCH BLASPHEMOUS WORDS
@KingKinfo If you like to really think about it, you will find that it's the other way around. You can't really call any of the old school guys the greatest because the competition back then was weaker. Some people say Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain are best centers of all time, but they were playing against 6'5'' or 6'6'' white guys. in my opinion, Shaq is the greatest center of all time for that reason.
For MJ, I can't really think of one rational reason to argue that he isn't the greatest.
who was better? the ultimate warrior or hulk hogan? see, that is an example of something that you can debate. You cannot debate whether anybody is better then jordan because he was that great. I saw him play and I have seen these young idiots play and it is OBVIOUS!
@0122148077 im 5'8 now and i was dunking at that 5'5 or shorter (age 14).. its not surprising anymore... i think the best jumper in the league is derrick rose.. watchu think??
there is only 1 person that could be not would be like Michael air jordan. he has alot of skills and is only 11. look up on youtube "the future michael jordan". all im saying is that he could be not would be like mike. like this if you think that kid has skills
Play Requiem for a Dream behind this. Epic is an understatement. Also look up Kobe Bryant Will Never be Michael Jordan. Thats a great way to shut Kobe fans up with all these ridiculous comparisons.
GEEKS stop arguing u either wach the game and enjoy it,hav ur own opinions but y r u guys sad enough to have big long arguments on whose the best over youtube,u guys or girls got waaay too much time on your hands
It seems to be that to prove a point there are only take the stats or facts that suport your point leaving out the overall equation adding up all aspects of any player that you may choose but then again I gess you prove your point ? ////// good job keep it up and to my point MJ is as of now the grates basquet ball player overall as a player and as a human been
There is NO different era here. Michael is regarded as the greatest of all time. Everybody else, take a seat in the back. It's as simple as that. There is Muhammad Ali and then there is Roy Jones and Tyson. There is Michael Jordan and then there is Kobe and Lebron. Greatest means exactly that.
He will always be in MJ's shadow of all time as it were, but people want to even take away this mans era. since 2000 Kobe has been that next player after MJ and he will forever have this era. No disrespect to MJ.
Look man... We all know when Kobe caught that court case that was it. He was not going win multiple mvp's even though he was playing at a very high level. We all know he was rob of at least two other mvp's. MJ had the personality and the swagger the media and NBA liked. If MJ treated the media like he did his team mates in practice he would not have all those mvp's. We all know Kobe has had these ridiculour skills for years and only 1 MVP? The media does not like Kobe and that is why.....
The ccomparison's need to stop they are two great players from two different era's. MJ was the greatest in his era Kobe is the greatest in his era. I think people who call Kobe a rapist they are the one's who we should ignore the most. They don't really watch sports they just watch the e-channel and listen to the gossip.
@imfreeinfinity True diffrent era's.. But ,Jordan all time scoring avg, all time playoff scoring avg, all time most points in playoff's, all time fg percentage, all time all star scoring avg, all time final's scoring avg, "10 scoring titles league record" best team record 72-10 stop the comparison there is none kobe 81 points' and 2 scoring titles 1 mvp, 2 finals mvp, shaq 3 finals mvp ,Jordan 6 finals Mvp enough said #23 never lost in the finals kobe lost twice!! Jordan GOAT!!
@imfreeinfinity I don't think it is as simple as you put it. MJ was above and beyond The greatest of all time, Not simply of his generation, but of all time. Kobe has been the best player in the world without any doubts the last 5 or so years. Kobe is not even the best player of the past decade, let alone the greatest. MJ was winning MVPs, Finals MVPs and scoring tittles at the age of 35. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Kobe is entering his 14th season and has ONE LEAGUE MVP. ONE. ENOUGH SAID.
@kanguesso Dude don't waste your time debating me. This is a new era and unless you got a time machine to bring the young MJ in this era and play against this generation of athletes your comment doesn't mean nothing to me. Your stuck in the past. I suggest you get marty and create a flux capictor for the delorian, kidnap MJ and bring him here. Kobe is the best in this era. MJ will never have this era. This era belongs to Kobe not MJ I'm sorry to disappoint you. I don't care about the stats.
@imfreeinfinity If i am stuck in the past for saying that MJ is the GOAT then at least 85% of the basketball world is stuck in the past. I can live with that. Many Networks including ESPN, sports writers, and basketball fans around the world have voted OVERWHELMINGLY for MJ as the GOAT especially when kobe is being compared to him. So, as you say, i won't waste anymore time debating you.
@imfreeinfinity "stuck in the past" lmao...the Jordan Era would have bent the Kobe era over their knees and paddled their asses for even THINKING about playing on the same court.
@imfreeinfinity What do u say to Mj at age 38-41 scoring 40+ - 50+ games on this new era and getting 22ppg as a 38 year old?! Against the likes of Duncan, Iverson, Shaq and Kobe with a team that was near utter garbage besides Rip Hamilton and Stackhouse, who both were still not the #1 option when MJ was there?! MJ even beat the Kobe Shaq Lakers in a game at that age with a garbage team at the age 0f at least 38. And also, realize that the #1 option for the 3peat was SHAQ, NOT KOBE!!!!
Even if the NBA folded, that doesn't mean professional basketball disappears. The ABA lasted for years. So maybe today we're watching the professional basketball league called the "ABA" instead of the "NBA". That doesn't mean Jordan and Kobe don't come along.
Dude. You are posting a tribute to Michael Jordan titled "Stop the Comparisons", yet you say you believe that maybe Kobe Bryant will be considered the greatest to ever play the game of basketball. You need to take another look. Michael Jordan's career: 13 full years; 10 scoring titles, 5 MVP, career win shares per 48 minutes: 1st; Kobe Bryant's career: 14 full years; 2 scoring titles, 1 MVP, career win shares per 48 minutes: 28th. What is so tough to understand?!
all my god r u fucking serious u did not say byron russell is better fefender then pierce allen hamilton billups prince kidd jefferson those are players that kobe faced in the finals and iverson is way better then any 1 that guarded jordan in the finals and not to mention the western conference kobe had 2 go threw the spuurs is better then any team jordan faced flatt out in his career except maybe the 80's lakers cuz dont even say the celtics or pistions 80's were better cuz there not
Why hasnt kobe been able to dominate the game like JORDAN did why why why does kobe only have 2 scoring titles and lost twice in the FINALS why why why the ANSWER HE IS NOT LIKE MIKE UNDEFEATED IN 6 NBA FINALS 10 SCORING TITLES JORDAN #23 GOAT!ENOUGH SAID KID!!!!!!
@chinesedevildog ok answer me this. how many rings did he win without pippen? dont worry ill wait. the answer is ZERO. and how many rings did he win without phil jackson? that answer is also ZERO
@MrGmack24 How many players won rings without team mates ? How many rings did Pippen win without MJ ? And as far as the coach...Bill Russell was the only player to win a title without a coach. HE was the player/coack...lol dont be hatin' :)
@MrGmack24 how many rings does kobe have with shaq? how many rings does he have with gasol? how many losses does kobe have in the finals 2 how many does JORDAN and PIPPEN have no losse's UNDEFEATED when it counts!! JORDAN GOAT! and you can take that to the bank kid!!!!
@leia072306 WOW U CAN ASK THE EXPERTS THE CELTICS AND PISTONS WAS WAY BETTER THEN ANY OF THE TEAMS JORDAN FACED IN THE FINALS AND LOOK AT WHO GUARDED JORDAN FUCKING BUMS LIKE HORNACEK MAJERLE RUSSELL NATE MCMILLIAN THE ONLY GOOD 1 WAS DREXLER BUT THE LAKERS HAD MAGIC WITCH DIDNT GUARD MJ TERRY TEAGLE DID AND IF U REMEMBER BYRON SCOTT AND WORHTY WITCH WAS INJURED AND MISSED A COUPLE OF GAMES AND SCOTT WAS ONLY6-3 KOBE'S FACED WAY BETTER PLAYERS MY OPINION KOBE'S SLIGHTLY BETTER WHEN KOBE RETIRES
Bryon russelis a better defender then any of those guys you had to have watched the games to judge numb nuts.
dumars,payton,worthy, drexler, those are defenders, and when they were aloud to defend with hand checking, kobe can only get away with his stupid moves cause he cant get hand checked, back then he would have been stripped every time
people keep saying jordan is better because his name is stuck on their heads. come on its 2010 and kobe is almost there next to jordan. for the record. kobe scores 81 points jordan never make it. KOBE chants MVP in NY..Boston and ATL ...Jordan never.. Kobe scores more than MJ in NY. PLus KObe is more clutch. fck u jordan lovers..
@vincesaidyoo Does Kobe have 10 Scoring Titles? No. Does Kobe have 6 Finals MVPs? No. Does Kobe have 5 League MVP's? No. Jordan averaged 30 a game what does Kobe Average?
@vincesaidyoo 81 is nothing these days with all the changes in the rule book,
i guess you only started to watch NBA recently? If Kobe were to play as the same time as Bird/Magic/Jordan Era, he would have never gotten 81.. lets just leave it at that.
NBA is a business...Jordan was marketable...phantom fouls, push offs, sorry All-Time goes to Kareem, Wilt, Magic, even Doc revolutionized the game more than Jordan. Were ESPN as huge prior to Jordan, the sheep that are Jordan fans would have a different opinion. Coincidence that Jordan was so big at ESPN and ESPN was full of UNC alum. Don't believe what you a programmed to believe. Open your eyes and mind. You might discover others without the media machine behind them(Bernard King or Jerry West
Hey dumbass, any more players you want to mention that already admitted Jordan was the greatest?
By the way, I wasn't a Jordan fan by MEDIA. I actually WITNESSED his games first-hand, and they were amazing. Watching Jordan's games, to the championship, had nothing to do with "oh, the media told he was great."
Go fuck yourself. Let gay marriage be banned with faggots such as yourself.
An expletive laden reply(sorry for using vocabulary beyond your comprehension) usually speaks to the intelligence(or lack there of) of the person. The players who commented on Jordan have merely shown more class & humility than 100 Jordans could ever display. Simple fact: there are guards with a higher FG%(Magic ranks outside of top 100 in FGA, but ranks in top 70 in points). Jordan was marketable, but I'm sure with no media influence, there would still be as many MJ fans. sarcasm
@itsokayright Credence is added to your argument with your last 2 sentences. Then again, maybe I've lowered myself by replying to you. Just hoping that by pointing this out to you, maybe, just maybe, it will motivate you to dissent in a rational manner to those with different opinions. By going with that course, it is possible that you could sway someone to your opinion. Baseless insults demean your position.
@itsokayright I think what you mean to say is: 'I cannot comprehend any comments you make as rational thought and a simple grasp of the English language is well beyond me.' You are welcome for the simpleton to English translation.
get over it. MJ is the best. everyone says so. you can KEEP lying to yourself and say o no he isn't he had blah and blah but everyone knows that he was.Honestly it's not how many championships he had or his team mates. ITS based on how well he played the game. and everyone Knows that YES MJ played it best. so seriously stop.
~Most these retards didn't live during his time to know how well he played so they are talking out of their asses liek they know shit.
jordan had pippen kukoc rodman lets be real he had a team around him as did kobe if kobe needed shaq then jordan needed pippen every one needs a TEAM to win...lets all end the arguement and agree that phil jackson is the best coach in all of professional sports
Ok well the stats do mean something when your trying to say whos the best. I look at it like this we can say who we think is the best but were not his peers. the Player from the past and present i think are the people whos option matters most and sorry but more then 90% say jordan. 9 out of 10 or 6 out of ten, bottom line jordan will never lose his place as "the best" kobe is a beast but not the best.
@paypatone Jordan stopped legends from getting rings. Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Peyton, and Shawn kemp to name a few. Jordan scored 63 points on LARRY BIRD and the celtics. Kobe scored 81 on the Raptors when they were they were the worst team in the league. Kobe needed Shaq for his first 3-Peat. Jordan had Scottie Pippen, at the time no one knew Scottie Pippen. he didn't pick up a basketball until college. Kobe had a team full of vets around him the first go around.NO COMPARISON
There is no comparison between Jordan and Kobe- This is an insult to Jordan. Millions of us have seen the total careers of both players and I can tell you RIGHT now. I would take a rookie or 2nd year Jordan over a 30 year old Kobe!
@jimboedwardlee There's no comparison? That's a joke of a statement. Kobe's a top 10 player of all-time. You can't say "there's no comparison" between any of the top 10 players of all-time. You taking 2nd year Jordan over 30 year old Kobe shows that you would be a terrible GM. You obviously don't know that much about the early part of MJ's career, if you think he was as good as a prime Kobe. Not as smart, not as efficient. High stats should never be favored over an understanding of the game.
@garubek How is Kobe a top 10 player of all-time when he is 28th by career win shares per 48 minutes?! He never even led the NBA in win shares once; Michael Jordan led the NBA in win shares NINE times!
@idster7 Win shares? Really? That's your basis? Nowitzki was the win share leader in '06. You think that makes Nowitzki better than Kobe? If you do, that is astonishingly retarded. There's not a person, who knows anything about basketball, that would put Nowitzki above Kobe. Not even close. How accurate is win shares, really? You're telling me that Nowitzki helped a 60-win Mavs team more than Kobe helped the 45-win Lakers? That's a joke.
@garubek Yes, win shares. Win shares take into account things that most unsophisticated basketball fans do not, such as FG% (.497 to .455), rebounds (6.2 to 5.3), assists (5.3 to 4.7), steals (2.3 to 1.5), blocks (0.8 to 0.6). MJ's numbers on each dwarf Kobe's, in addition to PPG (30.1 to 25.3). The unsophisticated fans take a cursory view and see Kobe's moves and dunks, and they don't look more deeply into the action and see who helps their teams more.
@idster7 Here's the difference in the stat line you just listed: 0.9 reb, 0.6 ast, 0.8 reb, 0.2 blocks. Dwarf? If Kobe had a better stat line, it would pretty much be the same as Jordan. You throw out stats (like I've never seen those) to imply you're sophisticated. Do you really know the stats? Did you know if you took out Kobe's 2 years as a backup and MJ's 2 years as a Wizard that their stat line is even closer than the one you mentioned?
@garubek over a career, that statistical difference is significant, and keep in mind that it is jordan who exceeds bryant in EACH of those statistics--pts, rbs, assists, blocks, steals per game. I'm glad you'd take out Jordan's two years as a Wizard because those were his two worst full seasons for FG %. jordan's FG% over bryant for career is .042. that is a HUGE difference.
@idster7 That's not a HUGE difference. The difference in PPG comes from shot attempts, not from FG%. Again, if they shot the same amount, there would be less than 1 ppg difference between them. That is anything but huge. Jordan is better, but the statistical difference is not very much.
@garubek You make a lot of good points and you've definitely done your homework on stats. Whats your response to Jordan's better overall shooting percentage, 0.497 to Kobe's 0.455?
@pheeeel17 I think it's overblown. As I said, their PPG is not that different despite the gap in FG%. Jordan attempted 22.9 FG's per game, and made 11.4 (.497). If Kobe attempted 22.9 FG's per game, he would make 10.4 (.455). So it comes down to matching Jordan shot for shot, minus one.
@garubek Have you thought about being a politician? You're so good with stats, that you almost have me convinced. Yes, 11.4 shots made a game vs. 10.4 if both players were taking 22.9 FGs a game doesn't sound like very much. But a player who shoots 40% would be making 9.16 shots a game, and you could say that ALSO is pretty close to Jordan. But we both know there's a big different between 49.7% and 40% , especially over the course of a career.
@pheeeel17 For the record, I was speaking in generalizations for the illustration of a broad point. I don't think MJ lacked any type of shot, and only played within 10 ft. to the basket. As far as FG%, I don't think 9.16 is close to 11.4. You've effectively doubled the shots missed from 1 per game to 2 per game. That's not as close. And by itself, 10.4 to 11.4 isn't necessarily close. What makes it close is Kobe 3PT shooting etc, that allows him to make up the gap in scoring.
@pheeeel17 The thing to consider is that Kobe's FG% isn't just 2 pointers. If he was missing one shot more per game, then his PPG would be 2 points lower than Jordan. But it's not, because he scores more with his 45%. It's not a straight comparison. Like Jordan takes 1,000 shots and makes 500 and Kobe makes 450. If the shots Kobe makes are worth more (3s), then it lessens the distance. That's why I point to PPG. Who cares what the FG% is, if Kobe averages less than 1 PPG difference than MJ?
@garubek First, your calculations are incorrect. If Kobe took shots at the same rate as MJ (22.88) a game, he averages 29.8 pts/gm to MJ's 31.5 (I did subtract all stats from Kobe's first two seasons and MJs wizards years). Msg me if you want to see the work. Wasn't sure how to factor in free throws in this hypthetical Kobe career, so I just kept them the same. Leading me to a bigger point which is that your entire argument is based on speculation, so its completely silly
@pheeeel17 You're right. My original calculation was "shots taken". I forgot to account for the difference in games played. Regardless, I still don't think 1.7 ppg is significant. Yes it's hypothetical, but I think it's pretty accurate. We didn't project stats from a 1 or 2 year career of what could've been. Our sample size is almost 1,000 games and over 20,000 shots. All I'm trying to point out to people is that the gap in scoring isn't strictly FG%. It also is the amount of shots taken.
@pheeeel17 The difference for Kobe at 35 and MJ at 35 is mileage. Kobe's played more minutes by 31 than MJ had when he retired in '98. Statistically, their careers can't be compared straight up because of the circumstances (how much each shot, how much mileage etc.). I'm just trying to point those things out, and that Kobe isn't far behind Jordan. All I'm saying is that they are pretty darn close. Kobe will never be Jordan, but who cares. He's a top 8 player all-time. That's good enough.
@garubek Nevertheless, let's compare offensive numbers for Jordan's real career(minus wizards years) and Kobe's hypothetical year where he shoots as much as MJ(minus first two seasons). PPG: MJ-31.5; KB-29.8. FG% MJ-50.6% KB-45.6%. Okay, so the ppg difference is 1.7. Its still interesting point you're making, but again I say that this is all speculation. Also,lets see how this pans out when Kobe reaches 35. MJ's PPG and FG% were declining last 3 years with Bulls as well
@pheeeel17 Also, I confirmed that Phil Jackson did say Kobe's a better shooter and that he's more skilled than Jordan. And Steve Kerr said the exact same things on Bill Simmons' podcast (more skilled: better jump shooter, better ball handler).
@garubek Lol, its not a consensus. Jackson said Kobe is a better "outside shooter" which I assume he meant 3 pt FGs. Yea, he did say Kobe has more basketball skills, after a long pause and a sigh, and then proceeding to list all the things MJ did better. Perhaps he said that because he still coaches Bryant? Regardless, you're all over the place now. We were talking about the significance of PPG and FG% and now you're taking this to who's a better player, and I lack the energy to go there
@pheeeel17 All over the place? In the past, you said you didn't get why people said Kobe's a better shooter. I just provided quotes that all say Kobe's a better shooter. It's not a consensus? Regardless of the quotes I just showed you, I've ALWAYS seen that Kobe's a better shooter. I've never seen one quote contrary to that. You're acting like I never addressed FG% and went straight to quotes. I addressed that point, then re-addressed a point with proof that you had brought up earlier.
@garubek yeah, kobe has an 80 point game but he also has game 7 last year when he couldn't buy a basket. If u want to compare players all u really need to do is compare the state of the NBA. When Magic, Larry, Michael, etc. were winning rings, the league was in great financial condition. Now Kobe, Lebron, etc. are in their prime and the league is losing money, closing or moving franchises, and has yet ANOTHER lockout coming.......
@PrinceApocalypse Maybe we can overlook Kobe's 6 for 24 performance like people overlook Jordan's 5 for 19 and 6 for 19 performances in the '96 Finals. I'd rather shoot 6 for 24 in one game than 11 for 38 in two games. The financial state of the NBA has nothing to do with comparing players. There's actually speculation that the league isn't losing money, so a looming lockout isn't proof. Is Kobe, LeBron etc. the reason why a lockout is looming in the NFL?
@PrinceApocalypse Regardless your whole claim is illogical. Fan response to the league has ZERO significance to the judgment of players. If more people than ever were watching Kobe and LeBron, and the league had the most money it's ever had, that wouldn't make them better than Bird, Magic, Jordan etc. Whether or not 10 people or 10 million people are watching has nothing to do with how good of a basketball player someone is.
@garubek zero? tell that to jerry buss when he cuts a paycheck...better yet tell the nba to stop a count of the best selling jerseys. Alot of athletes can put together impressive highlight reels. And hell if your argument is based on just stats and ability, Chamberlain and Russell would be untouchable. Ratings and reveune is most important because without it, these guys would be like every other streetball legend and past time great.....and how many of those do u debate about on youtube?????????
@PrinceApocalypse Tell that to Jerry Buss? Does he claim fan response is what determines the quality of a player? Your points are completely nonsensical. Jersey sales have NOTHING to do with the quality of a player. Most jersey sales does not equal best player. Derrick Rose's jersey sales are higher than Wade. Does that make him better? Absolutely not. Why? Because jersey sales have NOTHING to do with the measurement of the quality of a player.
@PrinceApocalypse Chamberlain and Russell are not untouchable. You have to examine their achievements, as well as the context in which they happened. Chamberlain was traded twice in his career. He was so untouchable, the teams he was on didn't want to touch him. Ratings and revenue provide a place for them to compete. The height of those ratings and revenue doesn't prove someone's better.
@garubek i didn't say it was the only aspect....but again i gotta ask how many ppl are on youtube talking about wilt chamberlain and bill russell???? Go count and come back and tell me ratings and revuenue don't mean anything. If it didn't, you would be talking about George Mikan and Kareem instead of Kobe Bryant....period!
@PrinceApocalypse You focus on too much on what people talk about. It doesn't matter if 10 million casual basketball fans think Shaq's the greatest center of all-time. He either is or he isn't. If you can't give an educated, informed reason for why Shaq is better than Russell, than your opinion is irrelevant. Kobe's talked about because he's current, and is easily compared to Jordan. If Dwight Howard takes over the NBA, people will probably talk about Shaq/Russell/Wilt/Kareem.
@garubek no buddy....kobe is talked about because he has the highest selling jersey and is one of the biggest tv markets in the country.....anybody can make an argument for kobe or jordan as the greatest. But the only reason they still talk about either is the fact that so many ppl watched them...You saying Kobe is better than jordan is like saying Jason Kidd is better than Oscar Robertson....
@PrinceApocalypse My basketball opinions aren't formed by "popularity". They're informed by people who know the game. Besides, talking about Magic, Bird and Jordan has more to do with the time period. In 20 years, people are probably going to talk about how Superstar X compares to LeBron and maybe Durant, not Magic and Bird.
@PrinceApocalypse Also, I would never talk about Mikan over Kobe, because he's not in Kobe's league. And who's going to discuss Kareem, Wilt and Russell on a "Kobe vs. Jordan" video. That's why I'm talking about Kobe.
@garubek WHAT!!!! Without George Mikan there wouldn't even be an NBA for Kobe or Jordan to play in....do you watch sports? Really, do you know what you are talking about at all?
@PrinceApocalypse First of all, there's no way you can say "without Mikan, the NBA doesn't exist." Being the first superstar doesn't mean the NBA would have gone bankrupt without him. Second of all, paving the way doesn't make you better. Jackie Robinson isn't better than Willie Mays, just cause he opened the door. That's an asinine statement.
@garubek what!! russell has 10 rings....if thats not untouchable i would say its pretty damn close.... Have you even seen Chamberlain's career averages???? As a rookie he average 37 points and 27 rebounds!!! How many players can do that now??? Are you a basketball fan or do u just like to go on rants???!!!!
@PrinceApocalypse I'm a huge basketball fan. I'm just not clueless enough to think that the 60's players translate to today. 20 rebounds in the 60's is not the same thing as 20 rebounds today. Let me ask you this...outside of Russell, name Chamberlain's competition.
@garubek you can't be a basketball fan because u don't know who george mikan is. Not only that but you don't understand that the NBA was about to go out of business when Mikan saved it and got ppl to tune in....please stop arguing and go catch up on your sports history before you discuss it again. Go to wikipedia like now...lol....
@pheeeel17 And here's a quote from an old Daily Dime article from ESPN: "But some coaches, executives and scouts within the league believe that Kobe is equal to if not better than Jordan. They say he's a better shooter and ball handler. One of Jordan's former teammates once strongly implied to me that Kobe was MJ's superior.
'All I know is Mike never scored 81 points in a game,' he said. 'And believe me, he tried.'"
So I would say that it's consensus that Kobe's a better shooter than MJ was.
@garubek Goodness, is that what this has come to, quoting other people's opinions? Should I now compile a list of quotes from players and coaches proclaiming MJ as the greatest ever? Cuz if you want to reduce this to "well i'm right because more people agree with me" thing, you're gonna lose in a Kobe-MJ debate
@pheeeel17 When did I ever make this a "Kobe's better than MJ" debate? In fact, I literally stated my opinion on that. Apparently you missed it the first time, so here it is again: Kobe is not as good as MJ, but he is damn close.
@garubek Last question, what makes you think you really have a grasp on someone's game that you never really saw play? You're 24, so that means you were about 6 yrs old when MJ won his first title, so I suspect you never even saw a full season of games. Thats a bit like me talking about Wilt Chamberlain's game based on stats and clips. Not possible so I don't do it
@pheeeel17 My knowledge comes from learning. What I lack in first-hand experience, I make up for with reading. I own the Chicago Bulls Dynasty DVD, and many other basketball DVDs, and multiple books. Stats and clips aren't the only access to history. "The Book of Basketball" and "Who's Better, Who's Best in Basketball?" both are extensive books in ordering the the top basketball players of all-time.
@pheeeel17 How am I, knowing the opinions of basketball experts, less qualified than someone who's "eye witness" account is the extent of their basketball knowledge? Watching Jordan doesn't make someone an expert. I rely on information from people who did see Jordan or Bird or Chamberlain, and that are actually experts on basketball.
@pheeeel17 How many people saw Jordan and the Bulls play? A lot. And how many of those people would accurately know the extent of his game vs. the extent of Pippen's game? I would argue very few. Here's some quotes from "The Book of Basketball": “Only Jordan was a better all-around player [than Pippen] in the nineties…and that was debatable.”
@pheeeel17 “Ron Harper to SI in ’99, ‘Everybody talks about MJ first, but Pip had a more all-around game. Defense, offensive rebounds, defensive boards: Pip made the game easier for us to play.’” I would be there's people out there who would laugh at Ron Harper's statement. Why? Because they watched Jordan play? That makes them experts? More than a guy who actually played on the team with both me? I don't think so.
@pheeeel17 I actually read what experts think. I don't rely on my own knowledge. Look at Kobe vs. LeBron. How many fans have been saying LeBron's better than Kobe? A ton. And they say it "because they watch the games." Who cares what people think by watching basketball? Jordan himself has said Kobe's better than LeBron. So people can think they know everything from what they've seen. I'll continue to learn what true experts say about basketball.
@pheeeel17 But because Kobe's a better shooter (.340 3P% to .327 3P%), Kobe makes up grounds on points. Again, if Kobe attempted the same amount of shots as Jordan, his PPG would be less than 0.6 points less. That's it. If you took out MJ's 2 Wizards years, his PPG would be 31.5. If you took out Kobe's 2 years as a backup, and he shot as much as MJ, his PPG would be 31.3. So I don't think it's that big of a deal.
@garubek You do also realize that the logic you're using can be applied to any player. For example, If Joe Shmoe who shoots 44% and averages 10 pts a game would just shoot the ball more, he could also average 30 pts a game. But we know it doesn't work that way
@pheeeel17 That's not exactly true; it can't be applied to any player. J.J. Redick shooting 44% is strategic setups is not the same as Kobe shooting 45%, while shouldering the scoring burden. Not all players are capable of that. And Kobe is no Joe Shmoe. He's proven he can score; so it's not unreasonable to assume he would continue to score, if given more opportunity. We've seen Kobe be consistent, even when shooting more. In '06, he avg. 27 FGA per game and still had a .450 FG%.
@garubek You still really haven't addressed why Kobe shoots considerly worse percentage-wise. Kobe is a slightly better 3 pt-shooter, but that doesn't make him a "better shooter." Jordan had an incredible mid-range jumper thats pretty much non-existant in the league today, along with the bank shot and the hook shot. I don't know how people can argue that Kobe is a better shooter, when Jordan was shooting the same pct as him even in his twilight years when he shot all fadeaways
@pheeeel17 I don't think Kobe's lower percentage is worse shooting, it's shot selection. Jordan was a lower post player and a driver, so he took higher percentage shots. I believe it's a consensus that Kobe's a better shooter (I believe Phil said as much). Kobe can be a better shooter, because he's making 45% of shots that are further out. Making 45% from 15 ft is a better shooter than 49% from 10 ft.
@garubek read and analyze kobe is # 28th considering 14 years on the nba as well as MJ 12 years and you are comparing only one season with Nowitzki and kobe ...... do I really have to say anything else???? then there is no hope for the truth at all
@esteeselbeto82 28th in what? And if you're talking about win shares, I used the Kobe-Nowitzki year as an illustration that it's a bogus stat. To prove my point, I'll leave Kobe out (as to not bias your view of the example): If win shares prove you're better, than Karl Malone is better than Michael Jordan. And Artis Gilmore is better than Bill Russell. Are those true? Or is win shares a bogus way to judge people?
@idster7 Nowitzki had Terry, Howard, Harris, Stackhouse, Dampier, and Daniels. Kobe had Odom, Smush Parker, Brian Cook, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Devean George, and Luke Walton. Without Kobe Bryant, that team wins less than 27 games. There's NO way Kobe was responsible for less than 18 wins that year. I don't know how Dirk won, but '06 Lakers minus Kobe are not a 28+ win team.
@garubek The 06 Lakers were also coached by a HOF coach; the 06 Mavs were coached by Avery Johnson. That 06 Mavs team isn't that good. And Lamar Odom is a good player. Kobe Bryant scored 35 PPG, but he had the worst points per shot percentage of any player in the Lakers starting five. Hell yes, I would take Dirk over Kobe that year.
@idster7 You throw out stats without any context. Do you realize Jordan scored more because he took more shots? Do you realize that if they had the same amount of FGA's that Kobe's PPG would rise to 29.5. That would be 0.6 ppg difference. That's impressive, because that includes his first 2 years in the league (when he played 15.5 mpg and 26 mpg). And that would be if all his additional FGA's were only 2's. Add in 3's and the gap becomes minimal, if not non-existent.
@idster7 You know what stats don't measure? Intangibles. There's no stat that says Kobe is clutch, and Dirk collapses in fear. Kobe impacted the Lakers WAY more than Dirk impacted the Mavs. Points per shot percentage? What the hell is that? I don't even know why I responded to everything. I should've just quoted you saying you'd take Dirk over Kobe and ended it right there. What an absolutely ridiculous statement to make. Dirk would take Kobe over himself.
@idster7 Oh and something else, if win shares are so accurate, then how do you explain Jordan's '93 win shares? According to that, he was responsible for over 17 wins. Then how do you explain the Bulls only losing two more games the next year when Jordan left? Shouldn't they have lost around 17? Unless you think Pete Myers starting in Jordan's place, with Kerr and Kukoc now coming off the bench, accounts for 15 wins. Oh yeah, and Pippen missed 10 games that year.
hahaha kobe is no where near MJ... no one is
tonyninja2 1 week ago
ON MY CHANNEL SITE THE REAL AND (((UNTOLD)))) STORY OF JORDAN VS KOBE! THE COMPARISONS WILL STOP! A MUST SEE!!!!!!!!
tiger1649 1 week ago
as much as i love kobe, no one can be close to MJ
FreakishSalmon 1 month ago
Bottom line there is no one that has filled the shoes left behind by Michael Jordan up until today!!!!!! and no kobe or anyother weenie is going to do it !!!! Hopefully the future will bring us one because he was awesome too watch!!! Thanks MJ from a childhood fan!!!!!!!
Rbby316 1 month ago
@Rbby316 while their will never be another michael jordan hopefully god will bring us somebody better
cell196 1 month ago
TF why isnt it any music dumb bitches!!
ESPNMekD 1 month ago
i thought i went def for a second
YoungPhaseDGAF 2 months ago
mj is the best of all time. no joke
1725frog 2 months ago
Kobe's highlights are just as impressive. More so if you consider Kobe's long range shooting.
antav9 3 months ago
@antav9 Are you stupid? Michael Jordan averaged 31 points a game, he also retired in the middle of his career for three years. Kobe has never been able to block like Michael, dunk like michael, putback shots like michael, and is definitely not able to do the incredible things michael did. Michael has broken through double teams and still make clutch shots that kobe has trouble doing. Michael also is notorious for making shots even though he has been brutally fouled. You are joking right?
TheKagutsuchi100 2 months ago
@TheKagutsuchi100 Jordan averaged 30.1 ppg for his career not 31. You didn't ask me if I'm stupid then post a non-fact right afterwards??? I'll assume you were not talking about his career average, ok?Jordan also led the NBA in "Field Goal Attempts per Game" for 9 years, more than any player in history (a fact I never hear the Jordan lovers mention). As far as Kobe doing what MJ did there are plenty of examples, look at youtube video "MJ/Kobe What's the difference" if you care to.
antav9 2 months ago
@antav9 MJ took a ton of shots over the course of his career, but why not if he's going to shoot nearly 50% and basically score at will. What most people fail to mention when they look at both players' careers is the defensive end of the floor, where MJ was one of the best ever with three steals titles, a DPOY award, and the most blocks by a guard in NBA history. His playoff numbers are sick when you consider the competition is consistently tougher than the reg. season - highest pt avg all-time.
hoopfan71 2 months ago
WMG MY ASS
andreaaa8000 3 months ago
Hey!
We have released the third teaser for the film. What do you think of the Toronto Maple Leafs' current ticket prices?
Unbeleafablefilm
..
unbeleafablefilm 4 months ago
@unbeleafablefilm wat?
OneMillionDunks 3 months ago
Michael Jordan makes Kobe look white!!
...hell, Michael Jordan makes every basketball player look white!
vamonoooo 4 months ago 3
can you please just upload it again somewhere else? or send us the music you used because it probably isnt as cool without it!!
Kkitsjon 4 months ago in playlist More videos from theperson18
while i completely agree with you on the chamberlain/russell thing, i can't say yes on the shaq thing because he falls to the same circumstances. shaq is 7'1 and HUGE. he dwarfed every center he played against even if they were the same height. he just used power, not so much basketball skill to dominate. i still lean towards Kareem as the greatest with Shaq and Russell either second or third
NATEakaScooter 4 months ago
@NATEakaScooter no Hakeem?
for me its Hakeem, Russell, then Shaq or Wilt
alexsean3000444 3 months ago
@alexsean3000444 yea i totally forgot about Hakeem. aight, kareem, russell, hakeem
NATEakaScooter 2 months ago
@NATEakaScooter see thats an issue if you are forgetting somebody in the discussion of best all time, you never leave out MJ's name. Who says "oh yeah, i forgot about michael." It doesnt happen!
markamoreno1 1 month ago in playlist More videos from theperson18
@markamoreno1 because it's MICHAEL JORDAN. Hakeem was a great center, but is also forgettable in the grand scheme of things. he didn't dominate the position, let alone the sport. he had equals during his time. MJ had no equal and still doesn't. I think Hakeem is a great player, but you can't get upset about me forgetting about him. shit, HE probably forgot about him, lol
NATEakaScooter 1 month ago
people say "nobody is perfect" but then michael jordan came into basketball and changed it to "practice makes perfect"
pinhead241 5 months ago
@kingkinfo Michael jordan would be much better than anyone because when he played handchecks were allowed.
cantstopme0311 5 months ago
hhaha its funny how mj does his lay ups with 2 hands..
jrrussell29 5 months ago
Read the title...
m5guan10 5 months ago
In all respect to Michael Jordan, I don't really think he is the best of ALL TIME but the best of his time Think about it. He has never played against those against before him(but we all know he's better than everyone who plays now). He was the dominate force of his time. But that doesn't make him the "best". If that was the case in a few years people will be saying guys like Derrick Rose, LeBron James(even though I dislike him) etc will the the "best" of all time. Just something to think about.
KingKinfo 5 months ago
@KingKinfo yeah douche but the difference is Jordan was playing back when you could still play defense in the NBA now a days they call everything, its a joke.NEVER SPEAK SUCH BLASPHEMOUS WORDS
scrappyjaunk 5 months ago
@KingKinfo
It is highly unlikely that people will be saying Lebron was the best of all time. Kobe has a better chance...
itsokayright 5 months ago
@KingKinfo If you like to really think about it, you will find that it's the other way around. You can't really call any of the old school guys the greatest because the competition back then was weaker. Some people say Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain are best centers of all time, but they were playing against 6'5'' or 6'6'' white guys. in my opinion, Shaq is the greatest center of all time for that reason.
For MJ, I can't really think of one rational reason to argue that he isn't the greatest.
kpopboi217 4 months ago
who was better? the ultimate warrior or hulk hogan? see, that is an example of something that you can debate. You cannot debate whether anybody is better then jordan because he was that great. I saw him play and I have seen these young idiots play and it is OBVIOUS!
maniac9565 6 months ago
just stop the comparison all of you Motha fucker...cause MJ is the greatest of all time...
kenelyn1000 6 months ago
just stop the comparison all of you Motha fucker...cause MJ is the greatest of all time...
kenelyn1000 6 months ago
Stop the comparisons, bitches.
josesince82 6 months ago
@0122148077 im 5'8 now and i was dunking at that 5'5 or shorter (age 14).. its not surprising anymore... i think the best jumper in the league is derrick rose.. watchu think??
mishunman324 8 months ago
Jordan.
End of story.
GunGemini 8 months ago
MJ is goat
2pacisthebest90 10 months ago
This video is pointless.
In all my life I have NEVER witnessed someone comparing himself to MJ.
That would be delusional + Blasphemy. LOL
Let's face it. He's the Muhammad Ali of basketball.
GREATEST OF ALL TIME.
megatroll 10 months ago 2
@megatroll no hes better than the muhammad ali of basketball...hes in his own league of greatness
switchflipcease 9 months ago
Please stop the comparisons..
RacerNight86 10 months ago
i say continue with the comparions...lol
look up "kobe bryant - there is no comparison"
brunolrhl 11 months ago
where the hell is the musiq?
thefuture067 1 year ago
I hate WMfuckingG...
TdubVids 1 year ago
because there's no equal.
illusionmofo 1 year ago
same played out circus shots we've seen over and over
realdealx08 1 year ago
IF-YOU-GOT-TIME-FOR-A-LOCAL-ARTIST-CHECK-OUT-MY-DEDICATION-SONG-TO-MICHAEL-JORDAN-ITS-CALLED-MJ-[-GIVE-YOUR-BOY-A-CHANCE-]
fredthomaas17 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
AYE-IF-YOU-GOT-TIME-FOR-A-LOCAL-ARTIST-CHECK-OUT-MY-DEDICATION-SONG--CALLED-MJ-ITS-A-DEDICATION-TO-THE-GREAT-MAN-HIMSELF-[-GIVE-YOUR-BOY-A-CHANCE-=]JUST-CHECK-OUT-THE-FIRST-30-SECS
fredthomaas17 1 year ago
it's only one air-AIR JORDAN!!!
TheGeras111 1 year ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
there is only 1 person that could be not would be like Michael air jordan. he has alot of skills and is only 11. look up on youtube "the future michael jordan". all im saying is that he could be not would be like mike. like this if you think that kid has skills
Godowar337 4 minutes ago
Godowar337 1 year ago
Michael Jordan was the Rock Star of Basketball.
cmh522 1 year ago
@cmh522 wtf is that suppose to mean? rockstar is like a ball star.
chuckywoodstudios 1 year ago
Michael Jordan-God.
Kobe Bryant-Jesus Christ.
RTR9 1 year ago 2
Put another song here please!!
AtilaCarneiro 1 year ago
Fuck you WMG ... I'm gonna specifically pirate music from you assholes...
pubuman 1 year ago 376
@pubuman
Yeah dude ! + 1000 000
riiad 1 year ago
@pubuman HAHAHAHAHAAHAHHA
TheKayage1 7 months ago
@pubuman ARRGGGHH!
LordRumple 5 months ago
Cant hear it anymore
warriorfire8103 1 year ago
amen!!!!!
ThePistolp23 1 year ago
Great vid. Only one MJ ever.
gip1279 1 year ago 2
Play Requiem for a Dream behind this. Epic is an understatement. Also look up Kobe Bryant Will Never be Michael Jordan. Thats a great way to shut Kobe fans up with all these ridiculous comparisons.
NotQuickEnough 1 year ago 2
keyboard warriors lmao
KoretiGuy95 1 year ago 44
@KoretiGuy95
you are by far the toughest keyboard warrior
i wouldn't want to mess with you
RayWilliamJohansen 1 year ago
@KoretiGuy95 LOL
lightsw0rd 9 months ago
@theperson18 I respect the fact that you're a lakers fan who admits jordan is better than kobe. sometimes laker fans are illogical.
Alverion 1 year ago
GEEKS stop arguing u either wach the game and enjoy it,hav ur own opinions but y r u guys sad enough to have big long arguments on whose the best over youtube,u guys or girls got waaay too much time on your hands
bilal1jordon 1 year ago
It seems to be that to prove a point there are only take the stats or facts that suport your point leaving out the overall equation adding up all aspects of any player that you may choose but then again I gess you prove your point ? ////// good job keep it up and to my point MJ is as of now the grates basquet ball player overall as a player and as a human been
esteeselbeto82 1 year ago 3
There is NO different era here. Michael is regarded as the greatest of all time. Everybody else, take a seat in the back. It's as simple as that. There is Muhammad Ali and then there is Roy Jones and Tyson. There is Michael Jordan and then there is Kobe and Lebron. Greatest means exactly that.
jkoruty 1 year ago
He will always be in MJ's shadow of all time as it were, but people want to even take away this mans era. since 2000 Kobe has been that next player after MJ and he will forever have this era. No disrespect to MJ.
imfreeinfinity 1 year ago
@imfreeinfinity no cmon... that's shaq and duncan's era... omg please man when was the first time kobe get his mvp... after his 12th year damn
guitarer 1 year ago
Look man... We all know when Kobe caught that court case that was it. He was not going win multiple mvp's even though he was playing at a very high level. We all know he was rob of at least two other mvp's. MJ had the personality and the swagger the media and NBA liked. If MJ treated the media like he did his team mates in practice he would not have all those mvp's. We all know Kobe has had these ridiculour skills for years and only 1 MVP? The media does not like Kobe and that is why.....
imfreeinfinity 1 year ago
The ccomparison's need to stop they are two great players from two different era's. MJ was the greatest in his era Kobe is the greatest in his era. I think people who call Kobe a rapist they are the one's who we should ignore the most. They don't really watch sports they just watch the e-channel and listen to the gossip.
imfreeinfinity 1 year ago
@imfreeinfinity True diffrent era's.. But ,Jordan all time scoring avg, all time playoff scoring avg, all time most points in playoff's, all time fg percentage, all time all star scoring avg, all time final's scoring avg, "10 scoring titles league record" best team record 72-10 stop the comparison there is none kobe 81 points' and 2 scoring titles 1 mvp, 2 finals mvp, shaq 3 finals mvp ,Jordan 6 finals Mvp enough said #23 never lost in the finals kobe lost twice!! Jordan GOAT!!
leia072306 1 year ago 3
@imfreeinfinity I don't think it is as simple as you put it. MJ was above and beyond The greatest of all time, Not simply of his generation, but of all time. Kobe has been the best player in the world without any doubts the last 5 or so years. Kobe is not even the best player of the past decade, let alone the greatest. MJ was winning MVPs, Finals MVPs and scoring tittles at the age of 35. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Kobe is entering his 14th season and has ONE LEAGUE MVP. ONE. ENOUGH SAID.
kanguesso 1 year ago
@kanguesso Dude don't waste your time debating me. This is a new era and unless you got a time machine to bring the young MJ in this era and play against this generation of athletes your comment doesn't mean nothing to me. Your stuck in the past. I suggest you get marty and create a flux capictor for the delorian, kidnap MJ and bring him here. Kobe is the best in this era. MJ will never have this era. This era belongs to Kobe not MJ I'm sorry to disappoint you. I don't care about the stats.
imfreeinfinity 1 year ago
@imfreeinfinity If i am stuck in the past for saying that MJ is the GOAT then at least 85% of the basketball world is stuck in the past. I can live with that. Many Networks including ESPN, sports writers, and basketball fans around the world have voted OVERWHELMINGLY for MJ as the GOAT especially when kobe is being compared to him. So, as you say, i won't waste anymore time debating you.
kanguesso 1 year ago 2
@imfreeinfinity "stuck in the past" lmao...the Jordan Era would have bent the Kobe era over their knees and paddled their asses for even THINKING about playing on the same court.
EndersGamez 1 year ago 3
@EndersGamez it's useless. LOL! I'll leave at that. You have your opinion and I have mine.
imfreeinfinity 1 year ago
@imfreeinfinity What do u say to Mj at age 38-41 scoring 40+ - 50+ games on this new era and getting 22ppg as a 38 year old?! Against the likes of Duncan, Iverson, Shaq and Kobe with a team that was near utter garbage besides Rip Hamilton and Stackhouse, who both were still not the #1 option when MJ was there?! MJ even beat the Kobe Shaq Lakers in a game at that age with a garbage team at the age 0f at least 38. And also, realize that the #1 option for the 3peat was SHAQ, NOT KOBE!!!!
Shermstyle23 1 year ago
Even if the NBA folded, that doesn't mean professional basketball disappears. The ABA lasted for years. So maybe today we're watching the professional basketball league called the "ABA" instead of the "NBA". That doesn't mean Jordan and Kobe don't come along.
garubek 1 year ago
To answer your question, no I've never really considered being a politician.
garubek 1 year ago
Dude. You are posting a tribute to Michael Jordan titled "Stop the Comparisons", yet you say you believe that maybe Kobe Bryant will be considered the greatest to ever play the game of basketball. You need to take another look. Michael Jordan's career: 13 full years; 10 scoring titles, 5 MVP, career win shares per 48 minutes: 1st; Kobe Bryant's career: 14 full years; 2 scoring titles, 1 MVP, career win shares per 48 minutes: 28th. What is so tough to understand?!
idster7 1 year ago
Amen.
j69confessional 1 year ago
all my god r u fucking serious u did not say byron russell is better fefender then pierce allen hamilton billups prince kidd jefferson those are players that kobe faced in the finals and iverson is way better then any 1 that guarded jordan in the finals and not to mention the western conference kobe had 2 go threw the spuurs is better then any team jordan faced flatt out in his career except maybe the 80's lakers cuz dont even say the celtics or pistions 80's were better cuz there not
ShawgDawg101 1 year ago
Why hasnt kobe been able to dominate the game like JORDAN did why why why does kobe only have 2 scoring titles and lost twice in the FINALS why why why the ANSWER HE IS NOT LIKE MIKE UNDEFEATED IN 6 NBA FINALS 10 SCORING TITLES JORDAN #23 GOAT!ENOUGH SAID KID!!!!!!
leia072306 1 year ago
"lots of guys are good and lots of guys have skill but ONLY ONE has this level of ARTISTRY" "THY NAME IS MICHAEL #23 " THE GOAT!!!
leia072306 1 year ago
Stop comparing other players to michael jordan, there is no one better than him, he was still outstanding in his last 3 seasons
sman6501 1 year ago
@chinesedevildog ok answer me this. how many rings did he win without pippen? dont worry ill wait. the answer is ZERO. and how many rings did he win without phil jackson? that answer is also ZERO
MrGmack24 1 year ago
@MrGmack24 How many players won rings without team mates ? How many rings did Pippen win without MJ ? And as far as the coach...Bill Russell was the only player to win a title without a coach. HE was the player/coack...lol dont be hatin' :)
cotadog 1 year ago
@MrGmack24 how many rings does kobe have with shaq? how many rings does he have with gasol? how many losses does kobe have in the finals 2 how many does JORDAN and PIPPEN have no losse's UNDEFEATED when it counts!! JORDAN GOAT! and you can take that to the bank kid!!!!
leia072306 1 year ago
@leia072306 WOW U CAN ASK THE EXPERTS THE CELTICS AND PISTONS WAS WAY BETTER THEN ANY OF THE TEAMS JORDAN FACED IN THE FINALS AND LOOK AT WHO GUARDED JORDAN FUCKING BUMS LIKE HORNACEK MAJERLE RUSSELL NATE MCMILLIAN THE ONLY GOOD 1 WAS DREXLER BUT THE LAKERS HAD MAGIC WITCH DIDNT GUARD MJ TERRY TEAGLE DID AND IF U REMEMBER BYRON SCOTT AND WORHTY WITCH WAS INJURED AND MISSED A COUPLE OF GAMES AND SCOTT WAS ONLY6-3 KOBE'S FACED WAY BETTER PLAYERS MY OPINION KOBE'S SLIGHTLY BETTER WHEN KOBE RETIRES
ShawgDawg101 1 year ago
@ShawgDawg101 who has gaurded kobe ray allen??
Paul pierce ??
rip hamilton???
Bryon russelis a better defender then any of those guys you had to have watched the games to judge numb nuts.
dumars,payton,worthy, drexler, those are defenders, and when they were aloud to defend with hand checking, kobe can only get away with his stupid moves cause he cant get hand checked, back then he would have been stripped every time
aaronhare 1 year ago
people keep saying jordan is better because his name is stuck on their heads. come on its 2010 and kobe is almost there next to jordan. for the record. kobe scores 81 points jordan never make it. KOBE chants MVP in NY..Boston and ATL ...Jordan never.. Kobe scores more than MJ in NY. PLus KObe is more clutch. fck u jordan lovers..
vincesaidyoo 1 year ago
@vincesaidyoo Does Kobe have 10 Scoring Titles? No. Does Kobe have 6 Finals MVPs? No. Does Kobe have 5 League MVP's? No. Jordan averaged 30 a game what does Kobe Average?
TwoTimesForYourMind 1 year ago
@vincesaidyoo 81 is nothing these days with all the changes in the rule book,
i guess you only started to watch NBA recently? If Kobe were to play as the same time as Bird/Magic/Jordan Era, he would have never gotten 81.. lets just leave it at that.
JanMarttinen 1 year ago
NBA is a business...Jordan was marketable...phantom fouls, push offs, sorry All-Time goes to Kareem, Wilt, Magic, even Doc revolutionized the game more than Jordan. Were ESPN as huge prior to Jordan, the sheep that are Jordan fans would have a different opinion. Coincidence that Jordan was so big at ESPN and ESPN was full of UNC alum. Don't believe what you a programmed to believe. Open your eyes and mind. You might discover others without the media machine behind them(Bernard King or Jerry West
BobLoomerhead 1 year ago
@BobLoomerhead
Hey dumbass, any more players you want to mention that already admitted Jordan was the greatest?
By the way, I wasn't a Jordan fan by MEDIA. I actually WITNESSED his games first-hand, and they were amazing. Watching Jordan's games, to the championship, had nothing to do with "oh, the media told he was great."
Go fuck yourself. Let gay marriage be banned with faggots such as yourself.
itsokayright 1 year ago
@itsokayright
An expletive laden reply(sorry for using vocabulary beyond your comprehension) usually speaks to the intelligence(or lack there of) of the person. The players who commented on Jordan have merely shown more class & humility than 100 Jordans could ever display. Simple fact: there are guards with a higher FG%(Magic ranks outside of top 100 in FGA, but ranks in top 70 in points). Jordan was marketable, but I'm sure with no media influence, there would still be as many MJ fans. sarcasm
BobLoomerhead 1 year ago
@itsokayright Credence is added to your argument with your last 2 sentences. Then again, maybe I've lowered myself by replying to you. Just hoping that by pointing this out to you, maybe, just maybe, it will motivate you to dissent in a rational manner to those with different opinions. By going with that course, it is possible that you could sway someone to your opinion. Baseless insults demean your position.
BobLoomerhead 9 months ago
@BobLoomerhead
You are a faggot, nothing you say even matters.
itsokayright 5 months ago
@itsokayright I think what you mean to say is: 'I cannot comprehend any comments you make as rational thought and a simple grasp of the English language is well beyond me.' You are welcome for the simpleton to English translation.
BobLoomerhead 4 months ago
big kobe bryant fan...but jordan is THE BEST
BLAcK0ppZ 1 year ago
If ur a kobe fan, check out my song BITCH I'M KOBE BRYANT on my page
TheProlificSoGifted 1 year ago
stupid. no fucking music FUCK THE COPYRIGHT SHIT!!!
good vid though 5/5
Reptarr69 1 year ago
Dude are we really arguing???????
get over it. MJ is the best. everyone says so. you can KEEP lying to yourself and say o no he isn't he had blah and blah but everyone knows that he was.Honestly it's not how many championships he had or his team mates. ITS based on how well he played the game. and everyone Knows that YES MJ played it best. so seriously stop.
~Most these retards didn't live during his time to know how well he played so they are talking out of their asses liek they know shit.
librafools12 1 year ago
jordan had pippen kukoc rodman lets be real he had a team around him as did kobe if kobe needed shaq then jordan needed pippen every one needs a TEAM to win...lets all end the arguement and agree that phil jackson is the best coach in all of professional sports
247Dumbcomments 1 year ago
MJ for Ever The GREATEST OF ALL...period (Hail from Greece)
athinaiou 1 year ago
Ok well the stats do mean something when your trying to say whos the best. I look at it like this we can say who we think is the best but were not his peers. the Player from the past and present i think are the people whos option matters most and sorry but more then 90% say jordan. 9 out of 10 or 6 out of ten, bottom line jordan will never lose his place as "the best" kobe is a beast but not the best.
paypatone 1 year ago
@paypatone Jordan stopped legends from getting rings. Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Peyton, and Shawn kemp to name a few. Jordan scored 63 points on LARRY BIRD and the celtics. Kobe scored 81 on the Raptors when they were they were the worst team in the league. Kobe needed Shaq for his first 3-Peat. Jordan had Scottie Pippen, at the time no one knew Scottie Pippen. he didn't pick up a basketball until college. Kobe had a team full of vets around him the first go around.NO COMPARISON
robslimm 1 year ago
There is no comparison between Jordan and Kobe- This is an insult to Jordan. Millions of us have seen the total careers of both players and I can tell you RIGHT now. I would take a rookie or 2nd year Jordan over a 30 year old Kobe!
jimboedwardlee 1 year ago
@jimboedwardlee There's no comparison? That's a joke of a statement. Kobe's a top 10 player of all-time. You can't say "there's no comparison" between any of the top 10 players of all-time. You taking 2nd year Jordan over 30 year old Kobe shows that you would be a terrible GM. You obviously don't know that much about the early part of MJ's career, if you think he was as good as a prime Kobe. Not as smart, not as efficient. High stats should never be favored over an understanding of the game.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek How is Kobe a top 10 player of all-time when he is 28th by career win shares per 48 minutes?! He never even led the NBA in win shares once; Michael Jordan led the NBA in win shares NINE times!
idster7 1 year ago
@idster7 Win shares? Really? That's your basis? Nowitzki was the win share leader in '06. You think that makes Nowitzki better than Kobe? If you do, that is astonishingly retarded. There's not a person, who knows anything about basketball, that would put Nowitzki above Kobe. Not even close. How accurate is win shares, really? You're telling me that Nowitzki helped a 60-win Mavs team more than Kobe helped the 45-win Lakers? That's a joke.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek Yes, win shares. Win shares take into account things that most unsophisticated basketball fans do not, such as FG% (.497 to .455), rebounds (6.2 to 5.3), assists (5.3 to 4.7), steals (2.3 to 1.5), blocks (0.8 to 0.6). MJ's numbers on each dwarf Kobe's, in addition to PPG (30.1 to 25.3). The unsophisticated fans take a cursory view and see Kobe's moves and dunks, and they don't look more deeply into the action and see who helps their teams more.
idster7 1 year ago
@idster7 Here's the difference in the stat line you just listed: 0.9 reb, 0.6 ast, 0.8 reb, 0.2 blocks. Dwarf? If Kobe had a better stat line, it would pretty much be the same as Jordan. You throw out stats (like I've never seen those) to imply you're sophisticated. Do you really know the stats? Did you know if you took out Kobe's 2 years as a backup and MJ's 2 years as a Wizard that their stat line is even closer than the one you mentioned?
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek over a career, that statistical difference is significant, and keep in mind that it is jordan who exceeds bryant in EACH of those statistics--pts, rbs, assists, blocks, steals per game. I'm glad you'd take out Jordan's two years as a Wizard because those were his two worst full seasons for FG %. jordan's FG% over bryant for career is .042. that is a HUGE difference.
idster7 1 year ago
@idster7 That's not a HUGE difference. The difference in PPG comes from shot attempts, not from FG%. Again, if they shot the same amount, there would be less than 1 ppg difference between them. That is anything but huge. Jordan is better, but the statistical difference is not very much.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek You make a lot of good points and you've definitely done your homework on stats. Whats your response to Jordan's better overall shooting percentage, 0.497 to Kobe's 0.455?
pheeeel17 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 I think it's overblown. As I said, their PPG is not that different despite the gap in FG%. Jordan attempted 22.9 FG's per game, and made 11.4 (.497). If Kobe attempted 22.9 FG's per game, he would make 10.4 (.455). So it comes down to matching Jordan shot for shot, minus one.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek Have you thought about being a politician? You're so good with stats, that you almost have me convinced. Yes, 11.4 shots made a game vs. 10.4 if both players were taking 22.9 FGs a game doesn't sound like very much. But a player who shoots 40% would be making 9.16 shots a game, and you could say that ALSO is pretty close to Jordan. But we both know there's a big different between 49.7% and 40% , especially over the course of a career.
pheeeel17 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 For the record, I was speaking in generalizations for the illustration of a broad point. I don't think MJ lacked any type of shot, and only played within 10 ft. to the basket. As far as FG%, I don't think 9.16 is close to 11.4. You've effectively doubled the shots missed from 1 per game to 2 per game. That's not as close. And by itself, 10.4 to 11.4 isn't necessarily close. What makes it close is Kobe 3PT shooting etc, that allows him to make up the gap in scoring.
garubek 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 The thing to consider is that Kobe's FG% isn't just 2 pointers. If he was missing one shot more per game, then his PPG would be 2 points lower than Jordan. But it's not, because he scores more with his 45%. It's not a straight comparison. Like Jordan takes 1,000 shots and makes 500 and Kobe makes 450. If the shots Kobe makes are worth more (3s), then it lessens the distance. That's why I point to PPG. Who cares what the FG% is, if Kobe averages less than 1 PPG difference than MJ?
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek First, your calculations are incorrect. If Kobe took shots at the same rate as MJ (22.88) a game, he averages 29.8 pts/gm to MJ's 31.5 (I did subtract all stats from Kobe's first two seasons and MJs wizards years). Msg me if you want to see the work. Wasn't sure how to factor in free throws in this hypthetical Kobe career, so I just kept them the same. Leading me to a bigger point which is that your entire argument is based on speculation, so its completely silly
pheeeel17 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 You're right. My original calculation was "shots taken". I forgot to account for the difference in games played. Regardless, I still don't think 1.7 ppg is significant. Yes it's hypothetical, but I think it's pretty accurate. We didn't project stats from a 1 or 2 year career of what could've been. Our sample size is almost 1,000 games and over 20,000 shots. All I'm trying to point out to people is that the gap in scoring isn't strictly FG%. It also is the amount of shots taken.
garubek 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 The difference for Kobe at 35 and MJ at 35 is mileage. Kobe's played more minutes by 31 than MJ had when he retired in '98. Statistically, their careers can't be compared straight up because of the circumstances (how much each shot, how much mileage etc.). I'm just trying to point those things out, and that Kobe isn't far behind Jordan. All I'm saying is that they are pretty darn close. Kobe will never be Jordan, but who cares. He's a top 8 player all-time. That's good enough.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek Nevertheless, let's compare offensive numbers for Jordan's real career(minus wizards years) and Kobe's hypothetical year where he shoots as much as MJ(minus first two seasons). PPG: MJ-31.5; KB-29.8. FG% MJ-50.6% KB-45.6%. Okay, so the ppg difference is 1.7. Its still interesting point you're making, but again I say that this is all speculation. Also,lets see how this pans out when Kobe reaches 35. MJ's PPG and FG% were declining last 3 years with Bulls as well
pheeeel17 1 year ago
@garubek So you're comparing a finished career of a man who retired at 35 to an unfinished career that hasn't reached its twilight stage yet.
pheeeel17 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 Also, I confirmed that Phil Jackson did say Kobe's a better shooter and that he's more skilled than Jordan. And Steve Kerr said the exact same things on Bill Simmons' podcast (more skilled: better jump shooter, better ball handler).
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek Lol, its not a consensus. Jackson said Kobe is a better "outside shooter" which I assume he meant 3 pt FGs. Yea, he did say Kobe has more basketball skills, after a long pause and a sigh, and then proceeding to list all the things MJ did better. Perhaps he said that because he still coaches Bryant? Regardless, you're all over the place now. We were talking about the significance of PPG and FG% and now you're taking this to who's a better player, and I lack the energy to go there
pheeeel17 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 All over the place? In the past, you said you didn't get why people said Kobe's a better shooter. I just provided quotes that all say Kobe's a better shooter. It's not a consensus? Regardless of the quotes I just showed you, I've ALWAYS seen that Kobe's a better shooter. I've never seen one quote contrary to that. You're acting like I never addressed FG% and went straight to quotes. I addressed that point, then re-addressed a point with proof that you had brought up earlier.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek yeah, kobe has an 80 point game but he also has game 7 last year when he couldn't buy a basket. If u want to compare players all u really need to do is compare the state of the NBA. When Magic, Larry, Michael, etc. were winning rings, the league was in great financial condition. Now Kobe, Lebron, etc. are in their prime and the league is losing money, closing or moving franchises, and has yet ANOTHER lockout coming.......
PrinceApocalypse 1 year ago
@PrinceApocalypse Maybe we can overlook Kobe's 6 for 24 performance like people overlook Jordan's 5 for 19 and 6 for 19 performances in the '96 Finals. I'd rather shoot 6 for 24 in one game than 11 for 38 in two games. The financial state of the NBA has nothing to do with comparing players. There's actually speculation that the league isn't losing money, so a looming lockout isn't proof. Is Kobe, LeBron etc. the reason why a lockout is looming in the NFL?
garubek 1 year ago
@PrinceApocalypse Regardless your whole claim is illogical. Fan response to the league has ZERO significance to the judgment of players. If more people than ever were watching Kobe and LeBron, and the league had the most money it's ever had, that wouldn't make them better than Bird, Magic, Jordan etc. Whether or not 10 people or 10 million people are watching has nothing to do with how good of a basketball player someone is.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek zero? tell that to jerry buss when he cuts a paycheck...better yet tell the nba to stop a count of the best selling jerseys. Alot of athletes can put together impressive highlight reels. And hell if your argument is based on just stats and ability, Chamberlain and Russell would be untouchable. Ratings and reveune is most important because without it, these guys would be like every other streetball legend and past time great.....and how many of those do u debate about on youtube?????????
PrinceApocalypse 1 year ago
@PrinceApocalypse Tell that to Jerry Buss? Does he claim fan response is what determines the quality of a player? Your points are completely nonsensical. Jersey sales have NOTHING to do with the quality of a player. Most jersey sales does not equal best player. Derrick Rose's jersey sales are higher than Wade. Does that make him better? Absolutely not. Why? Because jersey sales have NOTHING to do with the measurement of the quality of a player.
garubek 1 year ago
@PrinceApocalypse Chamberlain and Russell are not untouchable. You have to examine their achievements, as well as the context in which they happened. Chamberlain was traded twice in his career. He was so untouchable, the teams he was on didn't want to touch him. Ratings and revenue provide a place for them to compete. The height of those ratings and revenue doesn't prove someone's better.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek i didn't say it was the only aspect....but again i gotta ask how many ppl are on youtube talking about wilt chamberlain and bill russell???? Go count and come back and tell me ratings and revuenue don't mean anything. If it didn't, you would be talking about George Mikan and Kareem instead of Kobe Bryant....period!
PrinceApocalypse 1 year ago
@PrinceApocalypse You focus on too much on what people talk about. It doesn't matter if 10 million casual basketball fans think Shaq's the greatest center of all-time. He either is or he isn't. If you can't give an educated, informed reason for why Shaq is better than Russell, than your opinion is irrelevant. Kobe's talked about because he's current, and is easily compared to Jordan. If Dwight Howard takes over the NBA, people will probably talk about Shaq/Russell/Wilt/Kareem.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek no buddy....kobe is talked about because he has the highest selling jersey and is one of the biggest tv markets in the country.....anybody can make an argument for kobe or jordan as the greatest. But the only reason they still talk about either is the fact that so many ppl watched them...You saying Kobe is better than jordan is like saying Jason Kidd is better than Oscar Robertson....
PrinceApocalypse 1 year ago
@PrinceApocalypse KOBE'S OVERRATTED AND MOLEST CHILDREN!!!!
TheMoparDrvr 1 year ago
@PrinceApocalypse My basketball opinions aren't formed by "popularity". They're informed by people who know the game. Besides, talking about Magic, Bird and Jordan has more to do with the time period. In 20 years, people are probably going to talk about how Superstar X compares to LeBron and maybe Durant, not Magic and Bird.
garubek 1 year ago
@PrinceApocalypse Also, I would never talk about Mikan over Kobe, because he's not in Kobe's league. And who's going to discuss Kareem, Wilt and Russell on a "Kobe vs. Jordan" video. That's why I'm talking about Kobe.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek WHAT!!!! Without George Mikan there wouldn't even be an NBA for Kobe or Jordan to play in....do you watch sports? Really, do you know what you are talking about at all?
PrinceApocalypse 1 year ago
@PrinceApocalypse First of all, there's no way you can say "without Mikan, the NBA doesn't exist." Being the first superstar doesn't mean the NBA would have gone bankrupt without him. Second of all, paving the way doesn't make you better. Jackie Robinson isn't better than Willie Mays, just cause he opened the door. That's an asinine statement.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek what!! russell has 10 rings....if thats not untouchable i would say its pretty damn close.... Have you even seen Chamberlain's career averages???? As a rookie he average 37 points and 27 rebounds!!! How many players can do that now??? Are you a basketball fan or do u just like to go on rants???!!!!
PrinceApocalypse 1 year ago
@PrinceApocalypse I'm a huge basketball fan. I'm just not clueless enough to think that the 60's players translate to today. 20 rebounds in the 60's is not the same thing as 20 rebounds today. Let me ask you this...outside of Russell, name Chamberlain's competition.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek you can't be a basketball fan because u don't know who george mikan is. Not only that but you don't understand that the NBA was about to go out of business when Mikan saved it and got ppl to tune in....please stop arguing and go catch up on your sports history before you discuss it again. Go to wikipedia like now...lol....
PrinceApocalypse 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 And here's a quote from an old Daily Dime article from ESPN: "But some coaches, executives and scouts within the league believe that Kobe is equal to if not better than Jordan. They say he's a better shooter and ball handler. One of Jordan's former teammates once strongly implied to me that Kobe was MJ's superior.
'All I know is Mike never scored 81 points in a game,' he said. 'And believe me, he tried.'"
So I would say that it's consensus that Kobe's a better shooter than MJ was.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek Goodness, is that what this has come to, quoting other people's opinions? Should I now compile a list of quotes from players and coaches proclaiming MJ as the greatest ever? Cuz if you want to reduce this to "well i'm right because more people agree with me" thing, you're gonna lose in a Kobe-MJ debate
pheeeel17 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 When did I ever make this a "Kobe's better than MJ" debate? In fact, I literally stated my opinion on that. Apparently you missed it the first time, so here it is again: Kobe is not as good as MJ, but he is damn close.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek Last question, what makes you think you really have a grasp on someone's game that you never really saw play? You're 24, so that means you were about 6 yrs old when MJ won his first title, so I suspect you never even saw a full season of games. Thats a bit like me talking about Wilt Chamberlain's game based on stats and clips. Not possible so I don't do it
pheeeel17 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 My knowledge comes from learning. What I lack in first-hand experience, I make up for with reading. I own the Chicago Bulls Dynasty DVD, and many other basketball DVDs, and multiple books. Stats and clips aren't the only access to history. "The Book of Basketball" and "Who's Better, Who's Best in Basketball?" both are extensive books in ordering the the top basketball players of all-time.
garubek 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 How am I, knowing the opinions of basketball experts, less qualified than someone who's "eye witness" account is the extent of their basketball knowledge? Watching Jordan doesn't make someone an expert. I rely on information from people who did see Jordan or Bird or Chamberlain, and that are actually experts on basketball.
garubek 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 How many people saw Jordan and the Bulls play? A lot. And how many of those people would accurately know the extent of his game vs. the extent of Pippen's game? I would argue very few. Here's some quotes from "The Book of Basketball": “Only Jordan was a better all-around player [than Pippen] in the nineties…and that was debatable.”
garubek 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 “Ron Harper to SI in ’99, ‘Everybody talks about MJ first, but Pip had a more all-around game. Defense, offensive rebounds, defensive boards: Pip made the game easier for us to play.’” I would be there's people out there who would laugh at Ron Harper's statement. Why? Because they watched Jordan play? That makes them experts? More than a guy who actually played on the team with both me? I don't think so.
garubek 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 I actually read what experts think. I don't rely on my own knowledge. Look at Kobe vs. LeBron. How many fans have been saying LeBron's better than Kobe? A ton. And they say it "because they watch the games." Who cares what people think by watching basketball? Jordan himself has said Kobe's better than LeBron. So people can think they know everything from what they've seen. I'll continue to learn what true experts say about basketball.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek MJ said that as of now kobe has done more than Lebrone but he also said that Lebrone has the potential of doing more than kobe
esteeselbeto82 1 year ago
@esteeselbeto82 "Lebrone"....really??
ItsDaRoc451 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 But because Kobe's a better shooter (.340 3P% to .327 3P%), Kobe makes up grounds on points. Again, if Kobe attempted the same amount of shots as Jordan, his PPG would be less than 0.6 points less. That's it. If you took out MJ's 2 Wizards years, his PPG would be 31.5. If you took out Kobe's 2 years as a backup, and he shot as much as MJ, his PPG would be 31.3. So I don't think it's that big of a deal.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek You do also realize that the logic you're using can be applied to any player. For example, If Joe Shmoe who shoots 44% and averages 10 pts a game would just shoot the ball more, he could also average 30 pts a game. But we know it doesn't work that way
pheeeel17 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 That's not exactly true; it can't be applied to any player. J.J. Redick shooting 44% is strategic setups is not the same as Kobe shooting 45%, while shouldering the scoring burden. Not all players are capable of that. And Kobe is no Joe Shmoe. He's proven he can score; so it's not unreasonable to assume he would continue to score, if given more opportunity. We've seen Kobe be consistent, even when shooting more. In '06, he avg. 27 FGA per game and still had a .450 FG%.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek You still really haven't addressed why Kobe shoots considerly worse percentage-wise. Kobe is a slightly better 3 pt-shooter, but that doesn't make him a "better shooter." Jordan had an incredible mid-range jumper thats pretty much non-existant in the league today, along with the bank shot and the hook shot. I don't know how people can argue that Kobe is a better shooter, when Jordan was shooting the same pct as him even in his twilight years when he shot all fadeaways
pheeeel17 1 year ago
@pheeeel17 I don't think Kobe's lower percentage is worse shooting, it's shot selection. Jordan was a lower post player and a driver, so he took higher percentage shots. I believe it's a consensus that Kobe's a better shooter (I believe Phil said as much). Kobe can be a better shooter, because he's making 45% of shots that are further out. Making 45% from 15 ft is a better shooter than 49% from 10 ft.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek read and analyze kobe is # 28th considering 14 years on the nba as well as MJ 12 years and you are comparing only one season with Nowitzki and kobe ...... do I really have to say anything else???? then there is no hope for the truth at all
esteeselbeto82 1 year ago
@esteeselbeto82 28th in what? And if you're talking about win shares, I used the Kobe-Nowitzki year as an illustration that it's a bogus stat. To prove my point, I'll leave Kobe out (as to not bias your view of the example): If win shares prove you're better, than Karl Malone is better than Michael Jordan. And Artis Gilmore is better than Bill Russell. Are those true? Or is win shares a bogus way to judge people?
garubek 1 year ago
@idster7 Nowitzki had Terry, Howard, Harris, Stackhouse, Dampier, and Daniels. Kobe had Odom, Smush Parker, Brian Cook, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Devean George, and Luke Walton. Without Kobe Bryant, that team wins less than 27 games. There's NO way Kobe was responsible for less than 18 wins that year. I don't know how Dirk won, but '06 Lakers minus Kobe are not a 28+ win team.
garubek 1 year ago
@garubek The 06 Lakers were also coached by a HOF coach; the 06 Mavs were coached by Avery Johnson. That 06 Mavs team isn't that good. And Lamar Odom is a good player. Kobe Bryant scored 35 PPG, but he had the worst points per shot percentage of any player in the Lakers starting five. Hell yes, I would take Dirk over Kobe that year.
idster7 1 year ago
@idster7 You throw out stats without any context. Do you realize Jordan scored more because he took more shots? Do you realize that if they had the same amount of FGA's that Kobe's PPG would rise to 29.5. That would be 0.6 ppg difference. That's impressive, because that includes his first 2 years in the league (when he played 15.5 mpg and 26 mpg). And that would be if all his additional FGA's were only 2's. Add in 3's and the gap becomes minimal, if not non-existent.
garubek 1 year ago
@idster7 You know what stats don't measure? Intangibles. There's no stat that says Kobe is clutch, and Dirk collapses in fear. Kobe impacted the Lakers WAY more than Dirk impacted the Mavs. Points per shot percentage? What the hell is that? I don't even know why I responded to everything. I should've just quoted you saying you'd take Dirk over Kobe and ended it right there. What an absolutely ridiculous statement to make. Dirk would take Kobe over himself.
garubek 1 year ago
@idster7 Oh and something else, if win shares are so accurate, then how do you explain Jordan's '93 win shares? According to that, he was responsible for over 17 wins. Then how do you explain the Bulls only losing two more games the next year when Jordan left? Shouldn't they have lost around 17? Unless you think Pete Myers starting in Jordan's place, with Kerr and Kukoc now coming off the bench, accounts for 15 wins. Oh yeah, and Pippen missed 10 games that year.
garubek 1 year ago