DEBATE: Lee Harvey Oswald vs. Carlos Bringuier & Ed Butler 1

[TheEmachines22]

He should have pulled out his revolver and shot that annoying fucking Spick instead

[ThrilloVanHouten]

Good stuff, but the Windows sound clicks are annoying.

[normanjbertram]

It is remarkable how well-spoken and apparently intelligent Oswald was. How tragic that these attributes were not put to positive, long-term use in the ongoing struggle for justice in the world. It is painful to reflect that this man became a notorious assassin. How can it have happened?

[bucknorm]

propaganda? this whole show is propaganda.

[bucknorm]

I'm sorry but this is hilarious,

[bucknorm]

Wow, how did the CIA pull this off? How did they program him to spew out this jibberish nonsense? Bill Harvey! You were a madman!!

[agamemnon419]

@bucknorm  Not program but coached LHO !

[CubanCheGuevara]

Carlos Bringuer has the typical Miami Cuban Exile mentality; they speak loudly of what Castro did without any regard for how the USA and Spain interfered with Cuban sovereignty. Today, your word for this interference would be called TERRORISM.

While Carlos is correct in summarizing the conveniences and luxuries Cubans enjoyed before the communist takeover, they ALWAYS fail to mention at what COST. Over 80% of Cuban land and corporations were owned by WHITE AMERICANS. Cuba belongs to Cubans.

[colefernandez47]

You say there is "no proof he fired the rifle". His palm prints are on it, his wife and Ruth Paine went to Paine's garage where he kept it and it wasn't in the rug where he hid it. He got a ride to work with a man that day, he had a long brown envelope which he said was "curtain rods". The bullets (6.5mm) match his gun. What more do you want? It's possible the mafia came to him acting like the Cubans and gave him this idea and it is also possible he did it all on his own, either way he did it.

[TheGatorfan93]

Actual evidence?Like testing negative with the parrafin tests?Like the guy who said he carried this envelope,even though his own claim,proves it wasn't the right size?

[ZEITGEISTism]

NO he didnt "DO IT " israel did THEY had the most to gain from JFKs death they got NUKES and kennnedy told israel NO NUKES FOR ISRAEL EVER not on my watch JFK wanted a balance of power in the middle east He also investigated AIPAC and was SHUTTING IT DOWN when he was conveniently killed

[Exiles800]

Give them the name of the book: 'Final Judgment' by Michael Collins Piper. I suggest anyone interested in the Assassination read this book it will open your eyes. There's evidence everyone at CIA and the military hated Kennedy but it was Israel's trigger that got him shot. There's credible challenges to everything cole writes above including a double with Oswald's ID at a nearby convenience store a little while before the shooting. Not to mention pointed bullets found at Parkland.

[ZEITGEISTism]

Exiles800

thanks I havent read that book but will now and Apart from that kennedy in the SAME year he was killed also signed Executive order 111110 which gave the govt back the power to print its own money He wanted to SHUT DOWN The privately owned federal bank he issued $ 400,000silver backed dollars in 1963 the year he was KILLED

[TheGatorfan93]

either way he did it?

Dallas police chief jesse curry: ''we could never prove oswald was in that window,firing that rifle''

[ensconse]

@TheGatorfan93

Well-put.

[SuperBandstand]

if you want to blame blame johnstone

[Exiles800]

97camiro is smart and knows his Assassination background. I noticed that right away as well. Oswald makes a Freudian slip when he says "I was under the protection of the US gov't" while in Russia. He then says "ahh, ehm" and corrects it to "I was NOT under the protection of the US gov't". Oswald was a false defector working on some kind of assignment. Maybe to expose a mole back at CIA as a sort of dye marker to see where his info popped back up and from whom. Read Newman's 'Oswald & The CIA'.

[Exiles800]

Morbid has no idea of what he is talking about. Read some of James DiEugenio's articles in 'Probe' on the CTKA website. There's no doubt what so ever Oswald was a gov't infiltrator and agent provocateur as witnessed by many. There were many witnesses to Banister and Oswald together at 544 Camp St and Banister saying "He's [Oswald] one of us". The radio and TV station were right-wing connected and just so happened to be there when Oswald was agitating. U-Tube 'Oswald At Mancusos'. Oswald was CIA

[carveawoodeneye]

why would the guy who killed jfk debate Dinky the taco bell chiwawa? this audio raises many questions in my mind!! 1. would lee harvey oswald vote for obama ? sounds like he would !!2. why is a mexican dog so focused on cuba?3. why no mention at all about the deadly swine flu or 911? it's almost like they avoided these subjects, like it was planed!! i'll have to conduct farther scientific investigation into this!!

[morbid301]

oswald was no patsy or victim. his "chapter" of the FPFCC was never an official one and in all likelihood he was the only member. the guy was a nobody wanna-be-somebody. if it hadn't of been kennedy would have been colonel walker. the guy hated living in stupid texas being a bright guy that could barely support his family and he'd take it out on anybody. the assassination was a pseudo-political columbine, no more, no less.

[MrFred92455]

I think its amazing that Oswald was a local celebrity on the radio . I think Oswald was what he said a patsy.

My question is who changed the motorcade route to pass the "snipersnest" and why did they use a convertible automobile? Really sounds like a setup. Retracing the events by who , what , when and where maybe we can find the truth.

[97camiro]

I believe oswald was a victim, and under an assignment to make everyone believe he was a communist. And he did a great job. After oswalds arrest SS abraham bolden stated oswald was shouting "ruby hired me!" when ruby was arrested, he told the camera men "johnson did it" . theres no dought that oswalds communists views were a cover, and he walked right into a trap. but of course when you look at it, there is no concrete evidence to support the notion that oswald did the murders.

[colefernandez47]

Yes, there is no dought [sic] that you can't spell for shit. As for concrete evidence, there is no point in arguing with you conspiracy theorists (those of you who can spell or can't), you don't want to believe that he did it. But he did, by himself and he did what any criminal who has just been arrested does and that is deny the accusations. The gun, the trajectory of the bullets, and the countless experiments that conclude Oswald acted alone; he did it, Kennedy's dead, Oswald's dead let it go.

[Exiles800]

Yeah, and if you could just ignore the undeniable CIA anti-Castro connections he had through the Banister/Ferrie/Shaw network in New Orleans that might fly. Anyone who has done any serious looking in to this knows Oswald was a false defector in the Soviet Union and agent provocateur in the streets of New Orleans. Jim Garrison was right and the evidence is overwhelming. The two men who found the magic bullet at Parkland said the one they found was a pointed hunting round and not the one shown.

[colefernandez47]

I suggest all of you read Norman Mailer's "Oswald's Tale" he did extensive interviews with Oswald's Russian friends and had access to KGB notes on him as well. The guy was an average Joe, nothing special about him. One could even say he was pedestrian and boring, cheap and reserved. He was far, far from being a "spy" or an operative for the CIA, it's a 780 page book that details his mundane life and just how pathetic it truly was, try reading that instead of watching youtube videos.

[Exiles800]

Right a regular boring guy and loner nut who just so happened to defect to the Soviet Union and return untouched (because he was so boring) and then become one of the most famous people in US history. You would almost think your classic character defamation would be good enough to cover-up the reams of evidence Warren Commission ignored. Like Oswald's file being witnessed in the New Orleans FBI office under the paid informant file. Or people who witnessed him with Banister - something WC denied.

[ensconse]

@colefernandez47

I don't know if he was a Spy but a good spy will absolutely *blend in* with the mainstream.'

[colefernandez47]

Furthermore, try reading actual books or the Warren Report itself instead of watching Oliver Stone's "JFK". That movie was great if you have no concern for historical accuracy. He took his gun to work that day, he left his wedding ring with his wife and he killed officer JD Tippit after he assassinated JFK. He tried killing General Walker months before. He was a colossal failure who managed for one brief moment to succeed and now he forever lives in infamy, period.

[Exiles800]

It's you who needs to read some stuff. Like DiEugenio's 'Probe' on the CTKA website. Or John Newman's book 'Oswald And The CIA' which traces the file routing of Oswald's files through CIA to show he was deliberately kept beneath the radar in order not to trigger flags. Oswald was said to have frequented the spy bars at Atsugi. His fellow Marines said he was the only one allowed into the off-limits area with the spy prostitutes. He somehow had the $ to afford this even though his salary was low.

[Exiles800]

State Department agent Otepka made a demand for Oswald's file at CIA. He quickly had pressure put on him to transfer and when he refused he suddenly found his career ruined. His safe with Oswald's file was broken into in his office. Oswald's trip to Mexico is full of clues as to his CIA status. The wiretaps and surviellance photos are all direct proof Oswald was being kept undercover and painted as a KGB/Cuban agent 6 weeks prior to the assassination. CIA lied about not knowing who he was.

[Exiles800]

What you are asking us to believe is loser Oswald decided to go out on the streets of N.O. and agitate for Castro on his own - despite his witnessed associations with Guy Banister who was revealed by some of the people he hired to be running infiltrator operations of the type Oswald was doing. O had an office in his building. Shaw worked for a CIA black-op front Permindex corp of Rome. O's a classic false defector and CIA agent provocateur. Do you believe Ruby was an honor killer for Jackie?

[ensconse]

@colefernandez47

zero evidence he tried to assassinate Walker - although the blueprint *for* an assassination was found in his effects, I assume in his handwriting. A witness said 2 people *drove away* in 2 cars from the scene & I understand LHO could not drive.

zero evidence of killing Tippitt.

You're connecting dots for a Hollywood B-movie.

[colefernandez47]

Jim Garrison was so right he made an ass out of himself in a court of law and Shaw was acquitted. 46 years later and still no proof that Oswald did not do it, that speaks for itself. The man fronted his fake FPCC membership/charter in order to gain favor with the Cuban gov't, which he hoped would take him in and he could be a "revolutionary". You theorists ignore his assassination attempt on Gen. Walker, ignore the guns he took to work, ignore he killed Tippit, etc., it's pathetic, accept truth

[Exiles800]

If Jim Garrison's case was so pathetic then why did CIA get their NBC man Walter Sheridan to work on the inside to destroy Garrison's case? Why did they smear Garrison in the media? Why did they plant spies in his staff? All you are doing is returning to the same old pathetic official story over and over. THAT is what is pathetic. Anyone who reads the real sleuthing done by DiEugenio and others would see how laughable your official story is compared to the REAL unaswered questions and evidence.

[Exiles800]

Cole, your answer omits so much proven fact it is laughable. Oswald was a paid informant and infiltrator. He was witnessed taking a pay envelope from an FBI man in the garage. His Fair Play activity was classic infiltrator work documented many times in many places with other persons than Oswald. Oswald worked under Banister as a provocateur. Read Michael Collins Piper's 'Final Judgment' & DiEugenio on the CTKA website. All the people who witnessed the proof were blocked by the gov't that did it.

[TheGatorfan93]

no proof oswald did not do it

except, the absence of proof he fired the rifle,and a credible witness who can place him in the window.Talk about pathetic..learn the facts before you get embarrassed again clown.

[colefernandez47]

They actually had his prints on the rifle, proof that it was his rifle and they matched fibers in the butt plate of the gun to the fibers on the shirt he was wearing. Let's assume he didn't shoot the gun though, explain why he ran from the building. It doesn't make sense, I'm done responding, you people will never be satisfied.

[TheGatorfan93]

The fibers DID NOT match the shirt oswald wore to work.And why did he run?I have no idea,but he seemed stunned when baker had the gun on him,just over a minute after jfk got whacked out.Truly: (describing the baker/oswald encounter) ''he looked surprised,like anyone would if they had a gun on them''.So,from this moment on oswalds actions are strange,like a guy who is scared and confused and seems to be running around without any plan.Like a guy who just realized he's been set up.Just my opinion

[colefernandez47]

Here is actual evidence, rather than an opinion, if you are going to say the fibers DID NOT match, you should offer actual evidence. This is from the Warren Report, aarclibrary(dot)org/publib/jfk­/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0074b(dot­)htm

And your explanation of why he ran is correct, you have no idea. No one else from the building ran, and there were several witnesses on the fifth floor that heard shots above. So you are saying 2 mins after the shooting, he realized he was set up? What a fast thinker.

[ensconse]

@TheGatorfan93

"Place him in the window"? Do you think that could be presented in a courtroom?

I understand that the supposed witness mentioned Oswald's *height*. Interesting.

[TheGatorfan93]

@ensconse Howard brennan was never credible.Its interesting he got oswalds height,when he never saw this man in the window stand up,only kneeling!LOL,he also didn't identify him in the first lineup,only the second time,after he had seen oswald on t.v!That wont work in a trial.The warren commision use as their star witness,a man,who should have been telling his story while roasting marshmellows.Now i agree conspiracy witnesses,like oliver and hill are full of shit,but no bigger than brennan.

[supreme12]

This is a question no one has seemed to answer. If Oswald killed Kennedy why did he deny it after he was caught. If he killed Kennedy to make a political statement why didnt he spew his communist rhetoric when he was captured. He clearly could of said he killed the president because of what he stood for but he didnt he was talking about how he was a patsy. In my opinion he was government intelligence. Whether he shot the president I dont know but I seriously doubt it.

[leachdan]

good call

[smithnya]

He had anti-communist ideas just as much as anti-capitalist ideas. Read some of the stuff he wrote and you'll know what I mean. He recognized some Americans might listen to his political ideas as the President's assassin, but they would be repelled by a gunman who shot a cop and a family man. He became just another punk; another cop-killer. And his new defense? Not the oracle of history he thought he would be. Not an exposition of his so-called "Atheian System" but "I'm a patsy."

[kubrickfan21]

he became just another punk

quit taking mailers theories and making them your own.

[TELEVISIONARCHIVES]

Lee Harvey was a loser. A man who wanted to be somebody . That's the reason he killed Kennedy. That's the only reason

[smithnya]

yup. An inconsequential little being who had delusions of grandeur. He got lucky, he go his shot, and he took it.

[TELEVISIONARCHIVES]

True, In fact before he had the chance to kill Kennedy he tried to kill a judge. Some people want to believe it was some big conspiracy instead of a man who indeed did get lucky and killed him.

[smithnya]

I think you're mistaken though. He did try to kill someone, but it was some former Army General, Edwin Walker.

[TELEVISIONARCHIVES]

Yes. It was the Army General. I stand corrected

[leachdan]

smithnya - it seems like you shoot down everyones opinions pretty quickly and rebut them with your own opinions as if they were facts. Lets face it- we know nothing. we all have our opinions. I think you should take it all objectively. But you do come off as being a very head strong opinionated know-it-all - which is lame.

[smithnya]

Uuhh... ok, so I shot down somebody's opinion by giving mine, and in your opinion that makes me 'lame'. So then by judging me as such, which I assume you implied I did to other people by 'shooting down' their opinions, wouldn't that make you 'lame' as well? Just some food for thought..

[leachdan]

No, you're the only one who is lame. I read everyone's comments and think of different perspectives, you read everyone's comments in hopes you can argue with them somehow. in conclusion. you are lame. please, dont respond to this. it's youtube, no one cares. peace.

[smithnya]

Ok, I see. You simply wanted to do a drive-by, back-handed comment to "put me in my place", so to speak. You picked the wrong one for that. If you don't wanna hear from me, then you can start by being quiet, otherwise, I'll be back here answering your posts.

[ensconse]

@smithnya

What absolute proof do U have?

[smithnya]

@ensconse Sorry, but the last tie I posted anything here was over a year ago. What absolute proof do I have regarding what?

[ensconse]

@smithnya

Sorry about the cryptic post. I'm trying to sort out what I actually meant - I beleive it's about Oswald's supposed assassination attempt at General Walker. Do you have proof of that? Thanks.

[smithnya]

@ensconse Marina testified that Oswald returned home one night stating that he had taken a shot at Walker in his home. Marina had become worried about Oswald that night because he had left a note with instructions to Marina regarding what to do in case he couldn't return. I am assuming those items are in possession of the national archives at this point. I can't post links, but google "attempted assassination of General walker by Lee Harvey Oswald" and click on the first search result.

[ensconse]

@smithnya

Thanks. Very persuasive that LHO was no innocent person but it does imply that he was part of some "team". Walker was an enemy of JFK so it can be wildly speculated that LHO was under some kind of orders from malevolent rogue elements.

[eyewitness043]

Lee Harvey wasn't innocent, he just took the fall. If he was as smart as he thought he was he wouldn't have got bucked on national TV just like the Kennedy brothers.

Seems like Lee Harvey was a low life KGB/CIA double agent who only used "cuba" as Red Herring to mislead the Cubans while ploting against America.

In Lt. Corso's "The Day after Roswell" he mentions that the CIA and KGB where more loyal to each other than to the countries they were supposed to represent.

I could be wrong.

[smithnya]

"I could be wrong."

let me reassure you: you are wrong.

[eyewitness043]

You better hope so.

[ensconse]

@eyewitness043

LHO was murdered so he would not go to trial - unless you believe Ruby "wanted to spare Jackie and the kids" such an experience.

How do U know he was not innocent?

[eyewitness043]

@ensconse - He was guilty of association if nothing else. He was a CIA. All CIA are dirty. If he wasn't dirty his wife wouldn't live in fear today. He was a snitch. A dirty rat.

[eyewitness043]

@ensconse - Jessie Ventura just dealt with this on 'conspiracy theory' (11/2010) showing Lee Harvey Oswald's connection with Nixon's "Operation 40" used to destabilize elements of Latin America. As we see Oswald in this video - he had multiple uses as an operative.

[joeyinempirestate]

Oswald missed the fascist ultra- right winger Edwin Walker in the spring of '63 by inches with the Mannlicher Carcano, then reused it successfully in November.

[AntonBatey]

Too bad Oswald missed hitting Walker.

[joeyinempirestate]

You may be right, he might have satisfied his need for ego-boost or been arrested and JFK might've lived.

[MrRebuttal]

@AntonBatey

I KNOW ANTON. THIS HAS BOTHERED ME SOOOO MUCH! Why COULDN'T THAT FOOL OSWALD NOT SUCCEED THE 1ST TIME! OSWALD WOULD'VE BEEN A HERO TO ME! Damn life isn't fair!

[agamemnon419]

@joeyinempirestate LHO had nothing to do with the Walker incident !

[ensconse]

@agamemnon419

It was reported that two people

b drove away from the Walker home after the assassination attempt. A picture is supposed to exist which shows the two cars but with one with a"gauzed over" license plate.

It's been said that LHO *did not drive*.

[lt1bird348]

@joeyinempirestate Oswald missed Walker (a stationary target) and did not shoot again while Walker looked around to see what the noise was. Then he made 3 world class moving target shots at JFK? Please!

[deltapunk21]

Castro was a communist way before that, he recevived aid from the CAIa dn other barnwall jackasses through intel, sabotage of Batista, and oh yeah even FINANCIAL AID the embargo was not imposed until way ater his totalitarian regime took power.

[deltapunk21]

Oswald lied, USSR had not gone soft on communism...Oswald wasn't an "idealist" Oswald was a sick mass murdering little faggot who was provided a forged diary and a line the USSR after training him for a year a sabotage agent had him spew to anybody who asked. Kennedy was killed by the Soviet for political theater reasons. The Kennedys ahd done everything the USSR had wanted them to do, but LBJ worked a deal with them and the USSR sat back made LBJ President so they could get the TVA known as Nam

[97camiro]

.. to say oswald was employed full-time by the CIA, wilcots testimoney was so damaging his testimoney was omitted from the HSCA files. Another blunder was the fact that when oswald was handing out his phoney f.p.f.c. leflets he accidently gave the address of 544 camp street belonging to the offices of guy bannister leader of the anti-communist league funded and sponsored by the CIA. In other words this is the last place a marxist- communist would set up head quaters at a anticommunist office..

[joeyinempirestate]

Well said 97, you know your stuff, but as time went on, Lee became too unstable to be of use to anyone...CIA, Russia or Cuba, even the beard wanted no part of this kid.

[n0gar]

Oh, so that's what it is now? He WAS CIA or something else, but went on his own because he becamse unstable? After he got captured, he did not seem unstable.

[97camiro]

...his russian born bride into the states with no problems, and the state department lends oswald money to travel. It's as if the cold war froze over to thaw. If i had done this i'd be arrested and hanged for being a spy! I keep looking back at the testimoney of james wilcott to the HSCA when he stated that he personally financed the "oswald project" he stated that oswalds assignment in russia was a "double agent assignment" which would explain why no action was taken on oswald, wilcot went on..

[97camiro]

..the protection of the united states government!" oswald almost blows his cover by reveling his role! the truth is he had to had have sponsorship by the U.S. government, it really bogles my mind that this kid decides to be a communist defect to russia reveal classified information about our radar networks, is given a clean bill of health by the U.S. embassy, comes back to the states, is never questioned about revealing classified information or arrested, oswald is even succesful on bringing...

[97camiro]

and your right! there will never be concrete evidence to fact that oswald was employed by the intelligence community. The interview is diffently interesting though of capitalism vs communism oswald in my opinion sounds very intellict. The question that beringuer asked oswald really took oswald by surprise and even myself, it was ammusing to me to hear oswald pause then stutter his answer his words were "uh..that..is..oh.. I was there under the protection of th...that is I was NOT there under...

[TheLeadSled]

you have pitty on him, wtf?? I bet you you wasn't even alive when all this went down in Nov. 1963, and no one killed JFK except the lone nut-job called Lee Harvey Oswald. Have you ever seen the interview with Oswalds brother, well he spoke with Lee in the jail the day he killed JFK and Off. JD Tippet; well he says "I looked into Lee's eyes and Lee said, brother you wont find anything there." His own brother knew then that Lee did it, & I'll take his brothers word over some nutjobs theory.....

[32nirvana]

I''ll take his brothers word over some nut-jobs theory

lol...kill yourself moron

[97camiro]

listen to the question that was asked. "who sponsered your trip in russia?" Oswald stutters remarkably, not knowing how to answer the question without blowing his cover! Oswald trip to russia was sponsered by our gvernment, and oswalds assignment was a double agent assignment!

[TroyOi]

I assume you're referring to the question at about 2:30 of part 2 of this interview, since it's not in this video.

Even if Oswald was a U.S. agent, your evidence for it is pretty flimsy. After all, if that's the case, wouldn't he have a cover story? You think his CIA handlers would have packed him off to Russia and told him, "Don't worry, Lee, those silly Russkies will never think to ask who paid for your trip"?

[PWitness]

Oliver Stone really dropped the ball on this one- in *JFK* he depicts Oswald as doing really badly in this debate (he confirms this in the commentary), implying his personal views were not socialist. I'm not a Castro fan myself, and Oswald may very well have been BSing at times in this debate, but he certainly handled himself well, to say the least.

[racing2803]

true mafia kills kennedy his brother was on charge for clean the nation on corruption theres how all stars

[clautrice07]

Kennedy was killed by the mafia working with elements of the CIA. Like they were working together during bay of pigs. The mafia is very powerful. Oswald was a patsy, and he was not supposed to get caught. That is why Ruby (who was part of the jewish mob) killed Oswald. Today's mainstream media, which is controlled by the right wing Neocons, is still trying to brainwash the American people Oswald was a commi. Oswald was being 'handled' by the Cia/ Guy Banister in particular.

[mattwarren85]

if anyone has doubts about oswald---please read "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner.

[32nirvana]

please read''case closed''

LMAO!!!!!!!!!

[mattwarren85]

Sorry about that. My dad wrote that because I certainly didn't.

[mdpk1]

There's no way Oswald killed JFK

[leachdan]

Lee is innocent. The Company obviously killed Kennedy. I respect Lee and his name; it was tarnished by the government. He has my sympathy, pitty and admiration.

[smithnya]

Do you have any evidence? or should we just assume that you buy into Summers, Marrs, and Garrison?

[kcsunshine64]

Considering the fact Oswald had very little formal education, he more than holds his own vs. these "journalists" and Bringuier.

[AntonBatey]

Well said. Speaking objectively as someone who does NOT support Castro's economic policies, Oswald definitely beat these clowns in the debate. In fact, Stuckey was so impressed, he invited Oswald out later this night and they stayed at a bar in the Quarter all night talking about Oswald's life in the USSR, politics, etc.

[AntonBatey]

Although I disagree with SOME of the things Oswald is saying, Oswald pwned Butler and Bringuier on this one...