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Christopher Hitchens..........A hero among free thinking, logically minded good and decent people. The tea party.....so full of hate. Just like relgious fundies.
Hitchens, the brash ignoramus Brit who thinks he has a better grasp on American politics than...Americans. Hitchens is the worst kind of 'expert' on such affairs and is a pathetic little panderer of the Communist 3rd rail, and should have his ass ran out of our country for being the weasely, seditious, little prick he really is...
@dloloa He was American. He became a citizen, lived here for years. Not to mention that he was an investigative journalist: he spent more time in D.C. than I presume you or I have, so I figure his opinions are just as valid, if not more informed. And just going by the content, eloquence, and sheer rationality -- not to mention humor, of both his written work and his spoken word, I find it more worthwhile to consider his arguments than your anger at your own relative irrelevance.
Hitchens many have been an American 'on paper'. Nothing more. On his 'intellegence', have you ever wondered why he chooses the 'scientifc' debate over the political (e.g. Divine Birth) ? It's because it's the LEAST relevant, just like his followers. Were he to be challenged on the political significance of such matters, he'd tuck his tail between his commie ass cheeks and run for cover. You see, some of us actually know his game. If you don't, then its above you. Move on.
@dloloa Tough, nearly schizophrenic talk. But the Cold War is long over and you sound confused and bitter. Hitchens spoke of ideas, and was not only a frequent guest on political panels, but did the majority of his reporting on world issues, politics and society. He chose a rational, scientific viewpoint because that it the approach one adopts when they want to understand the world. Clinging to dying ideas might help you slip quietly into the night, but the optimal word there is quiet.
Again, it's above you. One clings to scientific viewpoints (only) when they best serve ones needs. Attempting to bring mankind down to a purely scientific level, devoid of exploring moral impratives was his goal. Once you understand that world affairs are rooted in moral vs immoral, it becomes obvious that omission is impossible. Someone's value system always prevails over another. Science is an afront, like Hitchens fans, to this. The optimal word here is...afront.
@dloloa Your supercilious, patronizing retorts are comedy. Truly, there is a moral imperative to much of the human world, but science does not validate all, for it demands univeral truths. You still cling to outmoded historical dogma, which, ultimately, serves only to oppress. Hitchens worked for good by serving pathetic shills such as yourself the truth that neutralizes your ugly need for control via misinformation. You are increasingly powerless and irrelevant, and flailing hard.
More drivel from the peanut gallery. Sorry St Nic, but religion and government are linked systems. Hitchens, worked to enrichen himself at the expense of shallow little twits, who are incapable of deciphering more than one throught-train at a time. Hitchens arguments would make any 3rd grader proud, since it all boils down to 'you can't prove it, nah, nah, nah.' BTW, saw a great movie tonight, by Clint Eastwood; "Afterlife" was excellent and more entertaining that Hitch ever was.
@AndyAce83 I am not sure what rule you are referencing but all the nations I listed are not minor exceptions to the use of religion. Go back to ancient Egypt and you will see how state and religion have been intertwined.
@AndyAce83 I agree that capitalism is a better system. What I am saying is that Marxism as it was theorized is different than what has been practiced by the USSR. Marxism in theory gives control of production to workers who vote on decisions and elect the managers. By stateless I mean no state, no government, no nation, none. That's the theory of Marxism.
@JasonCIAHudson Listen. To use a marxist quote: Everything solid melts into air. Why are you splitting hairs? They don´t. They want things to float into eachother, but for opposite effect. To cause confusion. I just want to simplify. They are all the same ideology of the state Takin' Ova with the promise of safety. And my original post mention all (or many atleast) deviant branches of Marxism. But they are all the same. Like Catholicism, Lutheran and Baptist are all Christian.
Sorry pal, but you need to brush up on your reading. Catholicism is not the same thing as Christian. There's no doubt the Catholic church revels in such cliam, just like the crowd that claims Jesus was the "son" of a Jewish carpenter. Jesus was the Son of God, and Christianity was never melded into a cross-secular belief system whereby everyone opposing it can lay claim to holding dominion over it. Christianity is a stand alone system, devoid of paganistic 'man gods'. Read Up!
It appears engaging you on facts doesn't work well either... You wanna piece of me. Bring you a game. I don't engage in simple(ton) cliches. Your statement of the 'many deviant branches of marxism' tell me you don't know shit. Karl Marx was the father of the communist movement - a movement that was forced on Russian citizens during the "Russian Revolution" (the second attempt). If you know so much about communism, of what religion was Karl Marx ? Hint - the Czar was Catholic...
No Andy, that's not the intent. However, since this board is all about 'bashing' religion, I'm dying to see how many here will show "parity" and inform us about all the evils of Judaism. Are you an expert in that area?
@dloloa No, but I am fascinated by conspiracy theories so I have read some articles and viewed some videos on youtube about the subject. Is it just me or do we get fewer signs on this video?
If you're referencing the 'abbreviated' responses, I've experienced that over the past couple days. It's intended stifle effective communication between members. Add to that my misspelling of the 'security' words and it gets pretty annoying. It's cleared up today, after I blamed the mod for invoking such. Anyway, don't go native on me. There's nobody more open minded than me and I'm willing to listen to everyone's argument. I just can't stand pettiness. Let's keep the depth. OK?
The other thing to remember is; "They're only theories, if you inhibit yourself from researching and establishing for YOURSELF whether or not they are "just theories".
@AndyAce83 You really do not know what Marxism is. All socialist ideology is the belief that the means of production should be in the hands of the public. This includes communes, labor unions, worker control of industry, local government control, community organizations, as opposed to private companies and businesses. Some ideologies think the state should control business, some believe community organization can do it. You realize that there is such a thing as state capitalism.
@JasonCIAHudson Okay. Fine. I think it's time to quite. You can have your world view, I don't care. But everyone with half a brain know that there is connotation, clear influence, dangerous similarities (collective thinking, power to a central state) between them all and Marxism was the genesis for all those bloody revolutions and countless years of suppression. All Marxist say "[those who disagree] got it wrong". But I think I know best ;-) But fine, you believe Marx is more.
@AndyAce83 I am not a Marxist. I do not share his world view but I at least understand it and know the difference between Marxist theory and the communist states we see today. Centralization of the state is a trend that is common in ALL major powers including the US. Remember that the US became more centralized as a result of the Constitution as opposed to the decentralized confederacy of the Articles of Confederation.
@JasonCIAHudson I understand it perfectly Mr. Jason. I even quoted "The Communist Manifesto" written by... guess who? Come on. Guess. Who wrote "The Communist Manifesto"? Marxism isn't communism. Nonsense!
But even though I won now. My main point was that communism is one of two roads of atheism (the other being nihilism). A well reflected (that means not just saying, but thinking like an atheist) becomes one of those. I repeat that because that is a far more interesting point.
@AndyAce83 Just because you use a quote from an author without knowing what it means does not make you an expert. I am saying the way communism has been implemented in the USSR, Cuba, China, and Vietnam is different from the way Karl Marx envisioned. Atheism absolutely does not lead to communism or nihilism. I guess Thomas Paine, Leonardo Di Vinci, Voltaire, and even Thomas Jefferson are nihilist commies since they either supported atheism or the separation of church and state.
@JasonCIAHudson First of; You are right. I am no expert. I have no degree in ideological history or understanding. Secondly, I do however know very well what that quote means at it´s a very important quote about modernism. It´s about estrangement from the cultural one is living in. It´s basically an ideological celebration to anomie. The marxist want to create a culture with no law, so they can become the only law. They are the solution to their own created culture of void.
@JasonCIAHudson Atheism does lead to nihilism or socialism. There is of course objectivtivism which also is a non nihilistic, highly polarized (extreme) world view that was created by an atheist but I don´t know enough about the bases for how it can defend atheism and still believe in "truth". Basically, what it means is that an atheist either belives in nothing, or he has a religious belief in himself (objektivism) or state (soscialism). Both are very materialistic and ugly.
@AndyAce83 - This has to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard. It's pretty obvious that you don't actually know any atheists. It's the same self-insulation which always enables uninformed bias. Atheists are simply critically thoughtful people who have more optimism for humanity's potential than to see it as a farcical diversion for a neurotic god. All non-theists are actually ethically evolved, because they don't require divine threats or subservience to be good people.
@TheWanderingPrimate Oh, u are such a fooool. I don´t know any atheist? Oh, God! Stupid, stupid, stupid. But what is more fascinating is the mob mentality. How u atheist have this compulsive need to try to serve people, but it´s always you who get F´ed in the A.
Why? Here´s some clues for the clueless. 1) Few atheist have a sense of humor (they believe smugness is the same), 2) no understanding of what is human 3) preaches theories as fact to people who know the difference.
@TheWanderingPrimate 3) the semiophobia of everything that shows an ounce of being "holy", 4) the meme-ish re-gurgle of quotes and slogans from better, more bright atheist, 5) the belief that atheism is the only logical conclusion, when it´s far from logical as we observe the universe, 6) the often hypocritical defense of Islam as some sort of victim to the big bad Christian religion, 7) the complete misinterpretation of history that in sum is Christianity kept us down.
@AndyAce83 4) Sloganeering is a simplistic tact used by ALL ideologues, and theists certainly invented it. Atheism and its relatives have only existed a fraction of the time religions have. 5) Atheism is the only logical conclusion because civilization depends on empirical process. If you use words like "logic", you are adhering to this mandate. 6) I have not heard atheists defend Islam. If it is such experiences that are informing, I understand your point. But it's atypical.
@TheWanderingPrimate 8) the need to make every argument be about "logic" in the most narrow of sense, often with the need to draw in some Latin phrase in hope that the other debater hasn´t heard of wikipedia, 9) the neurotic need to deny and ask for proof and the psychotic melt down that follow the quid pro quo. I mean the list is endless. So many atheist are dull argumentative people who just think that to say "this is stupid" is debunking the opponent.
@AndyAce83 - Oh good... a list. Let's see: 1) That's ad-hominen nonsense. Theism is literally defined by its suppression of nature, impulse, and by arguable association, FUN. History is on my side. 2) Atheists are a rung on the ladder of philosophical (read: critical) thinking. Explain how theism better "understands" humanity, if it is unable to evolve alongside it 3) Holiness is a sensation, and it can come as easily from Newton, Feinman, Jesus, or the Dalai Lama.
@TheWanderingPrimate@TheWanderingPrimate So now when you "take me to school" about my many "fallacies" like a nevrotic counting tiles so their mother won´t die, I can point out the many different atheist cliches you are putting to use while "rebutting" my list. It took one sentence before an "ad hoc" latin logic phrase deprived from any humor or self-irony. So far from any self-awarnes that you do not even see that by even bothering to answer just proves my many points.
@AndyAce83 7) History is dynamic. That is, our understanding of it will always change. The Church has actually done many positive things for science and the arts, and still commits humanitarian efforts. However, there is no real denying that the Christian European "dark ages" after Constantine were a period of cultural and scientific stagnation. Specifically, the problem has ALWAYS been the alliance between church and state, more than religion itself (which has its own baggage).
@TheWanderingPrimate I think u better stop listening to the memes. Dark Ages was not the Christians fault, but was the period in European chaos after the fall of the Roman Empire (that fell because of great expansions and politics, NOT religion). The chaos, war, etc caused the written language, and the preservation of culture to fall. Thus no written record from the dark ages exist. Christian munks pulled us out. The middle ages, are the time when Christianity ruled Europe.
@AndyAce83 8) This seems to just be an anti-intellectual rant, not worth responding to. 9) This also is more ad hominen irrelevance. Atheists I know and have known are reasonable and thoughtful people. You either have had some extremely unusual experiences, or you are just inventing them for your argument. I agree that ideologies, including atheism, can be restraining absolutes. But the point is to engage critically with what we are presented. To use reason before faith.
@TheWanderingPrimate if you can´t see the trouble with casting out Latin phrases seems ad random then I can´t explain it. But I would like to know how come so many atheist feel the need to brag about it. Does the American college ed. prog. have a mandatory rhetoric class or do just every atheist who loves to quarrel participate in it or do you just read the wiki articles?
@AndyAce83 - I didn't go to college. I'm just well-read and reasonably intelligent. I don't see how knowing some VERY common latin phrases has anything to do with any of my actual points. It's an insecure and irrelevant rebuttal.
I don't listen to memes. I read. A lot. You should too, because you don't have a very good grasp on the history of Europe. Rome was 3/4s fallen by the time of Constantine - it's irrelevant. The Church became the prime authority equaled only (cont.)
@TheWanderingPrimate First of there is nothing common about latin, just as there is nothing common Sumerian. Both are dead languages. But this is a fascinating discover. From now on I will ask that question to all "freethinkers" I am discussing from the first time they drop the "logical fallacy Latin"-bomb. This I need to find out. Why? Is it a hand-book for atheist with one of the steps being "#X) Learn them Latin phrases, be shutting them bitches theist right up"?
@AndyAce83 Yes, Latin is dead. But language is flexible, and certain phrases remain in use. This needs to be explained to you? You know, you have yet to actually refute anything I have said. All I see is whining about my vocabulary and completely irrelevant (and baseless) assumptions about my education.
When seeming educated and intelligent becomes a liability, you know the end is on its way. I'm done here, good luck in life. Try to keep an open mind - you'll be happier for it.
@TheWanderingPrimate I never said you "seemed educated and intelligent". I was just musing about the atheist need for Latin phrases to spice up the debate. Calling this and that "ad aliquid aut aliis". I am more of a Latin beat sort of guy. You know SALSA!
@AndyAce83 by the Crown. This alliance DID create what we call the dark ages - the efforts to maintain orthodoxy and hierarchy called for suppression of critical debates and philosophy (direct threats to the Church), opposition to science, demonization of diversity and sexuality and all manner of "heresy", ie., any deviation from the Church's rule (which often had little to do with actual doctrine, and had no trouble rewriting such when necessary). Again, the issue is church+state.
@TheWanderingPrimate Nonsense and lies. It´s a meme. Bits of "facts" (lies) told enought times to a wanting audience and then it becomes true. Tell me do you believe it was called the "dark ages" because it was dark or because we are kept in the dark?
But you go right ahead and believe what you want to believe. A "critical thinker" like yourself can find it our for yourself ;-)
@AndyAce83 ...We agree, you are no expert. The quote in the Communist Manifesto was about the self destructive tendencies of capitalism. You must be referring to Marshal Berman's "All that is Solid Melts into Air."
IGNORANCE ALERT! Better do some research there... Oh, to hell with it. I quote wikipedia: "The title of the book is taken from the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels." SCHOOLED!
@AndyAce83 Objectivism was created by Ann Rand who was a laissez-faire believer of markets who is admired by many conservatives and Republicans. Atheists do have values and believes, they just aren't in god. They believe in strong ethics and moral values. A study by Phil Zuckerman actually showed that non-religious people prove to be less nationalistic, less prejudiced, less anti-Semitic, less racist, less dogmatic, less ethnocentric, less close-minded, and less authoritarian.
@JasonCIAHudson "do have values and believes". Yes, and they are hallow. An atheist can defend infanticide ( watch?v=YWkJ6cZ0FY8 ), cannibalism (watch?v=PWGVCtGgqIA), pedophilia (watch?v=w02Mgwbv3tg), rape (/watch?v=d-jldQErbqs) etc. The point is that yes you do have values, if you behave like Christians, but when you really go down and reflect you either become a nihilist ("I had a really nihilistic day that day") or socialist or some other horrible freak like on those videos ;)
Using four random videos does not negate factual, scientific research. For one thing Richard Dawkins discussion of cannibalism was more of posing a question to his interviewer, not an endorsement.
While I don't support his view on infanticide he was simply arguing that killing a child in the knowledge that he will suffer from a disease is more moral than letting him live in pain.
I am not even going to respond to the pedophile question for two reasons. First, this man is a well respected or reputable atheist and does not represent most views.
@JasonCIAHudson I think that perverted man is a great example of a "freethinker". Objectively sound arguments. On a subjective, emotional level (like I feel there is a God) and humane level I hate every word he says, but it seems logically sound.
@AndyAce83 That one man does not resemble atheism anymore than the people who say "god hates fags" resemble christians. Now of course the church isn't going to say that pedophilia is their policy but when you don't prosecute the criminals and just transfer them, you are allowing this epidemic to continue. Also that "source" you cite is probably reliable.
Secondly, I don't even have to mention the thousands of cases of pedophilia that have been rampant in the Catholic Church to make apparently clear how idiotic you are on this topic.
@JasonCIAHudson Oh, yes. Let´s not forget those perverted priests. Do you think the Catholic church or any other church condones pedophilia like that mad nihilistic atheist guy in that video? Do you think you ever will hear that? No! Christian practice does not condone that.
Secondly, I heard somewhere that although there is unfortunately lots of sex.abus in churches there are LESS of it than in the "secular" world. It just gets more publicity when it happens. Which is natural.
The final video is misleading because the man says in a clearly hypothetical situation where if he absolutely knew his actions would save lives, he would. Again, not an endorsement.
@JasonCIAHudson No, is logical reasoning. It´s atheist ethics. It´s utilitarian (Spock´s need of the many) ethics. Lot´s of people talk in hypothetical and do complete opposite. When Christians does it we call them hypocrites. But atheist lower the bar when they speak in hypothetical. So when they "fall from grace", they really, really do ;-)
We say "be not unfaithful", atheist say "do not get caught". We say "rape is wrong", you "well okay. If I want to or have to. Whatever."
@AndyAce83@JasonCIAHudson The only thing atheism requires is that I don't believe in a god. What any atheist does outside of not believing in a god has nothing to do with me. There are no "Atheist ethics" every atheist decides what they think is right or wrong on their own and if you need to fear some god to be nice you really weren't a very good person in the first place.
@AndyAce83 When we talk about hypothetical they are in fact hypothetical. That man would never rape anyone. Atheists do believe rape is wrong and killing in the name of anything is wrong. That study does show atheists have higher morals than Christians in reality while Christians defend themselves by saying "I believe all life is sacred...except all those people we killed over the centuries.
@JasonCIAHudson Atheism has killed more people in the last century than any 2000 years of Christianity. AND YES: atheism have to stand responsible for communism if I have to stand accountable for Catholics and jews...
@AndyAce83 The only thing atheism requires is that I don't believe in a god. What any atheist does outside of not believing in a god has nothing to do with me. The reason why people are blamed for what their religion does is the fact that it was done in the name of religion. Atheism has nothing to do with communism. There is no link between them. I would also like to point out that Hitler was a christian since I'm sure you're using this as an example.
1/2 @dilt4 (rhetorical nonsense to make a very real cultural movement untouchable. How can go against something that changes shape and definitions like a borg-shield. I have no trouble with people "who just don´t believe in a god" (what you define as atheist, but there are VERY FEW off) I am talking and always have about the religious-cultural atheist. The one who listens to the prophets of Dawkins and Hitchens. Who want to redefine atheism however they feel like.
@AndyAce83 No there isn't. Atheism by definition is to reject the claim that there is a god. That's it, nothing more and nothing less. When people say that atheist nations are less violent they mean that it's less violent because of the fact that religion is not an issue there. I'll say it again athiesm requires nothing more than rejecting the idea of a god. Me sharing the same view as another atheist doesn't mean that we share that view because of atheism.
@AndyAce83 I also can't understand how atheism would lead to more suicides. In my case and in many others I know atheism has caused me to have a greater value for life than I had when I was a Christian. If someone kills themself knowing that they have one chance at things they were probably prone to suicide in the first place. It's ridiculous to claim that we require Christian ethics to know that we should not kill. If that was the case we would be all dead by now.
@dilt4 Well it doesn´t matter that u "understand" its still statistical "fact". Here have a look: bit.ly\zY8hiv
I can´t understand what the difficulty in understanding that meaning 2 an atheist is pleasure & when pleasure disappears (i.e terminal diseases, loss of someone they F´d alot, financial loss that will lead to not affording iPhone 4S) then life is something to waste. Not everybody fines the beauty in looking up at the stars & thinking "I am a part of that void. I am stardust"
@AndyAce83 It's not a bloody fact and for your information I find so much more beauty in the universe than I do in some sadistic dictator god. It was my science books and my mind that kept me going while I was beat every day and night by my religious family as a child. By your logic if the only reason for living is God why do you do anything but devote your life to the church? Isn't that all as meaningless? Is the fact that your bible says that you can't kill yourself the only reason you live?
@dilt4 No, it´s not a fact, just as evolution is not a fact. But it is good science.
Thank you for playing atheist. You lost. They don´t call me the atheist slayer for nothing. ("They don´t call you the atheist slayer". OH, SHUT UP!) Them "freethinkers" tremble when I enter a thread. You see I have a secret weapon that few other theist have. I get down and dirty just as the atheist do. Stories will be told of my heroism; like "the song of Dilt4; the nerd who believed he could!"
@AndyAce83 What is wrong with you? Is it that hard for you to have a good debate without acting like an ass. You don't "win" anything and you failed to answer my question.
@AndyAce83 As you can see, the church and state have always been one and used each other to suppress and control. If you love that than say so, "I love the state."
@AndyAce83 I don't see how one study is fact ethier. That's not how this works. There are so many things to consider when doing a study like this that it's impossible to say that ethier side has a higher suicide rate.
@dilt4 I understand that study hurt you & it´s natural for an atheist to try to suppress it. Because science tells us that few atheist are in jail, but it´s only a study when more atheist jump over bridges. Yes, that is right. I believe you lost the argument & now fog talk to pretend everything is okay. As I have always said: atheism is just plain unreflected nonsense. "It´s okay, it´s okay. 42. 42. Haha. Ain´t that the truth. Stupid religion. Haha. Me smart, them be all like SPAGHETTI!"
@AndyAce83 How do you regress from having a semi-intelligent debate to putting your head this far up your own ass? You somehow managed to dodge the ridiculous bullshit that athiesm is anything but rejecting the claim that there is a god and you're now running off with your bogus suicide study as some sort of victory for creationism. I don't see how this solves anything or ends the debate.
@dilt4 Oh, well isn´t his nice. You can´t accept defeat can you. Now the link I gave you is not only "just a study" now it´s bogus. "Freethinker" go back to your lair! I have vanquished you! Go bother some other, less intelligent theist. You are way out of your league!
@MrAlsfan5 fool, and I pitty you. But feel free to contact me if you ever feel suicidal. I´ll try to talk you out of it. Maybe I´ll even share my love of Christ with you.
Don´t commit suicide "freethinker", there´s always hope, love and faith even if your friends have deconstructed the terms. Something is, beyond cultural relative social construct.
@AndyAce83 Like I said, too stupid to realize that you've had your ass kicked. You're like a looped tape, programmed to repeat the same shit over and over again. No thought, just the same crap. That is why you are such a loser.
@MrAlsfan5 You go ahead and tell yourself that. But my offer stands. If you want to kill yourself, I will look past your angry attitude now (I know it´s atheist pathology and I forgive you for it) and try to help you if just existing for no reason becomes to unbearable :-)
I will stay on youtube, so just write down my nick and will talk. There is always a reason for living. God has a plan for you to :-)
@AndyAce83 LMFAO! Me listen to a bible thumper? That is a joke and so are you. Suicide seems more an option of someone who is sure of meeting his maker and since you believe in a god than go for it, please. One less bible thumper is always a refreshing thought.
@MrAlsfan5 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 4 Leave them; they are blind guides leading the blind. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
2/2 @dilt4 i.e atheism follows your definition; "don't believe in a god." when there is critical arguments to be had (like communism killed more than any theist religion or atheist are more pron to suicide or atheist are untrustworthy people who either has adapted christian ethics or are without one). But when their is praise to be had: i.e atheist are smarter, atheist nations are less violent then ATHEISM IS A CLEAR COLLECTIVE GROUP. There is more to atheist than not believing in a god.
@AndyAce83 I am not saying that Christians have to be accountable for what happened in the name of their religion. But to pretend that their philosophical views are morally superior to atheists and that atheists automatically have no morals, than I will bring up your past. Yes the USSR and communist states were secular but it was there totalitarian beliefs that made them brutal. You forget that most Western nations today have no state religion and are secular.
@AndyAce83 You also forget that their are more religions that Christianity. While Christian nations have been responsible for all of Europe's wars before the 19th century, the inquistions, persecution of non-believers, the destruction of whole nations, religion has been used the same for Islam, Hinduism, and various other religions used in Ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt, Persia etc.
Since you fail to the role that church and state play than I take it you agree and see how idiotic your views are. Please don't respond unless you have new evidence.
@JasonCIAHudson I don´t get this last what. Since you fail to the role of wha..? Are you talking about secularism or what? Bah, what do I care. I took you to school... Showed you how perverted a well reflected atheist can be. At least we Christians try to be good. We don´t applaud pedofile even when it happens in our midst. We do not accept rape. We are the true idealist. Atheist is... Something ugly in disguise (can´t show it yet. To weak). When you rule, humanity dies!
@AndyAce83 His study also showed that in the US, in states with the highest percentages of atheists, the murder rate is lower than average. In the most religious US states, the murder rate is higher than average. Now of course I can tell from your other responses you do not believe in facts and logic so let's just disregard this
@JasonCIAHudson Have you seen the movie Robe by Hitchcook? You should.
Fun Fact: atheist commit suicide at a faster rate than any theist. I think it has to do with the level of reflection vs hardship. Most people who suffer are religious (being in jail, poor etc) those who are rich and well educated moves away from those "fairytale" cuz they be better than that. Then suffering struck. Nothing to live 4. Goodbye.
@AndyAce83 Let's go back to examining the role of the state. Atheists do not automatically put their faith in the state. In fact history has proven that religion has allied its power to the state. In EVERY SINGLE DICTATORSHIP, EMPIRE, NATION STATE, AND GREAT POWER BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE UNITED STATES COMBINED THE CHURCH AND STATE. Communism is the ONLY exception to this rule. In fact countries that are secular like the US and European countries are less authoritarian.
@JasonCIAHudson First most dictatorships have been Communist. The only theist dictatorship was Nazi Germany (and much evidence seem to indicate that Hitler used some religions as allies (i.e Catholicism) and others he tried to exterminate (jews, Lutherans). The reasons was that some religions are more focused on a leader than others (i.e the pope of Catholicism). As for pre 20th century; theocracy (kings and feudal lords) is not a dictatorship (especially pre-democrazy).
@AndyAce83 But you are just going to continue to disagree so let's not bother continuing this ignorant conversation. BTW I noticed you complained about how atheists complain that Islam is oppressed by Christians. Have you seriously never listened to Christopher Hitchens or Bill Maher. They HATE Islam. They call it a totalitarian, authoritarian, backwards religion. You should really learn more about a person before you make idiotic comments.
Actually, that's no surprise at all. All parasites must seek out 'new opportunities'. He wasn't a socialist, he was a friggin' commie. Plain and simple.
Fun Fact: Christopher Hitchens is a socialist who believes 1984 is about religion. Also he is dead. So I don´t think his opinion matters in any way you look at it.
@punkuddha I guess it´s relative. But since you people need evidence for any claim hows about this gem: Her Hitchens talks about 1984 as it was about RELIGION: watch?v=F3HV9xko8ME
@AndyAce83 Here's a fun quote from him: "I am no longer a socialist, but I still am a Marxist." By your logic we shouldn't listen to the opinions of Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington...because they're dead. I don't believe he said 1984 is specifically about religion but about totalitarianism in general.
@JasonCIAHudson You really want to discuss this? I was just making fun of a horrible atheist. And being a Marxist is basically the same as a socialist. Marxist is just what they called it before it became Socialism, Bolshevism, Leninism, Stalinist and Communism. They all want to replace God with State and to replace the individual with the hive.
Just because he want to call himself something else does not make it different.
@MrAlsfan5 Haha. I win! Cuz you be dropping names. Atheist be so so stupid. And the irony is they be thinking they be sooo smart. Haha. Whooo.... See ya.
@MrAlsfan5 Dra til helvete din gudløse styggdom. Bare et selvhøytidlig fjols som deg kan kaste bort så mye tid på en tullete kommentar om et idiotisk lik som nå er så råtten at ikke engang hans barn vil gjenkjenne han. Mannen var, som alle ateister, ond. Han drakk, var stygg i kjeften og var frekk mot til og med de som likte han. Håper du bruker en oversetter for å finne ut hva jeg nå skrev, for da er du en jævla taper :-)
@AndyAce83 Socialism is a very broad system of economics that is simply where the means of production are controlled by the public. Marxism is an economic and sociopolitical world view that the human history is the history of class struggle. Communism as Marx originally conceptualized would result in a classless, stateless society where there is free access to all individuals to produce. This is different from how communism has operated in the Soviet Union, Cuba, and Vietnam.
@JasonCIAHudson I don´t agree and yet I agree and ironically fine your entire post highly cultural-marxist in it´s expressions. What you now have done is corrected me by deconstructing, complicating and pointing out the differences between A, B and C when I said they are all letters. Socialism, Marxism and communism may differ on some part, but they are THE SAME where it COUNTS. They are the same where freedom, liberty etc get´s stolen. They are the same in their lies of history.
@AndyAce83 I'm not endorsing his ideas, I'm just saying there is a distinction between Marxism, Communism as we know it, Leninism, Trotskyism, and Socialism. It's the same distinction between Mercantilism, free market capitalism, social market economy, state capitalism, corporatism, and a mixed economy. He doesn't want to replace God with anything, he just wants God gone.
@JasonCIAHudson There are two logical -isms that follows atheism. If we see atheism as a social cavity that needs to be filled with some other -ism to not make it so hallow it can only logically be filled with nihilism (nothing means anything) or socialism (the state or "we") decide what is and what isn´t. Cultural-relativism is the way to either.
As is my mantra: "Atheism is just unreflected nihilism"... but I could add "or socialism"
@AndyAce83 Again your interpretation that communism, socialism, and Marxism as theories subvert freedom by placing the state in charge is not true. Marx's communist theory leads to a stateless society where there is no state and all decisions are made collectively by the people. Whether this is practical is irrelevant. Capitalism is not immune to the state either. Capitalists systems have given rise to authoritarian regimes such as in Chile or Indonesia.
@JasonCIAHudson If by "stateless" you mean "worldstate" then yes Marxism is that. And if you mean collective decisions are made by an elite then right again. Although, you do not seem to state that, but instead give a strange interpretation of Marxism as a kind of democracy, which it is not.
As for capitalism, like democracy, is not perfect. But it does the least bit harm to existence.
@AndyAce83 Fella, you don't know a thing about Marxism - so I figure you don't know history, or even the capitalism you tout. You embarass yourself by proffering opinion on something you know nothing about, while bandying terms that reduce your argument to fallacy "Worldstate?". That's the backwards fear-the-world ideology that is peddled in the media that mendaciously packages up important ideas with facile fear-words so you can ignore it. Don't talk out your ass. It's ugly.
@niclasjt Oh, I bet you do. Probably a Marxist yourself, and that makes you an expert. Just as a member of Scientology knows more about the E-meter. So tell me mr Smartypants who want to take others to school: What is Gulag? Tell me about SMERSH. What was CPSU Central Committee stand on slaughter of Christians?
People who claim ignorance should learn abit about history, you fuck. Soviet expanded because of ideology. What do you think the cold war was about?
@AndyAce83 There is no logic that socialism or a powerful state will rise from atheism. Authoritarian states have used religion as a means to accumulate power and control masses of people for most of human history (Roman Empire, Islamic Caliphates, British Empire, French Empire, Spanish Empire, Holy Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Dutch Empire, Portuguese Empire). Society's choice is not between Atheism and Statism.
@JasonCIAHudson All of those red left ideologies is filled with "freethinking" atheism. I know that you know can bring forth Christian socialism etc. etc. But the point is that exceptions to the rule does not destroy the rule although that is what cultural Marxism and deconstruction wish. I am not an anarchist so I have no problem with authority but I want to control who is in control (democracy).
@Leinster4life13 Hispanic means mix between Spanish and South/Central American, so it's not the same as a Spanish person. There are way more Hispanics than Spanish people in America, so I imagine any person speaking Spanish is assumed to be Hispanic.
@Leinster4life13 They killed many, certainly, but not anywhere close to all of them. The fact that there are so few "pure" natives today is because of centuries of integration.
@yurismir1 uh, to take that a step farther, the term "Hispanic" was invented by the US government, and is not really used outside of the USA. also Latino's (or Latin Americans in a broad sence) in centeral and south american are considered white buy the natives... which is fair, because they are caucasoids... basically, the US government (to my understanding, as a canadian) uses this term tfor anyone they think is "browner" than whites. had nothing to do with laugauge.
@yurismir1 "The term has also been used to denote the culture and people of Spanish colonization of the Americas countries formerly ruled by the Spanish Empire, usually with a majority Hispanophone population."
Who can listen to the zeroes in the TeaBag "Movement"? A collection of fringe crackpots, anti-immigrant paranoids, conspiracy theorists, sociopathic "libertarians", and other cranks.
They get FHA loans, use food stamps, cash disability checks and get medicare but want the "socialist" government "off their backs". They could vote for useless ignoramus bubble-heads Christine O'Donnell but hysterically hate "Kenyan, Maoist, Muslim" Obama.
I dont like how hitchens tried to discredit truthers, birthers and tea party people. maybe im just a conspiracy fuck, but people who label the tea party as racist to me just epitomize mainstream corporate establishment hacks working against the interests of the common american.
@manthasagittarius kinda interesting to have this discussion now, considering that iran just said they wanted to kill the jews. well its a generalization against a group for a invalid reason, no tea party leader claims to be rascist so to accuse the group of said claim is is just hollow slander. maybe some r racist but so r some dems and republicans. would u accept the criticism that your party is more racist than another based on someones dishonest establishment slant?
The Tea Party is focused on one general political/economic message: limited government. That everyone else extrapolates a racial component is bizarre and I think revealing of those who claim a racial element. Why is this not a bash against OWS as well? OWS in New York has over 80% white, higher than the national average (let alone metropolitan). Racist claims against he Tea Party is a projection, because it can't be an observation.
@steele967 If you really believe that then answer me this. Would anyone be accusing Barack Obama of being a Muslim or of not being born in America if he was a white man named John Smith? I didn't think so. Tea party members might dislike him for his political views but they would not have taken it so far without the underlying racial distrust.
"Wikipedia: Hitchens has written of his homosexual experiences when in boarding school in his memoir, "Hitch-22." These experiences continued in his college years when he allegedly had relationships with two men who eventually became a part of the Thatcher government.
Was sodomite Christ' Hitchens' hollow death an early Christmas gift, or retribution for the total-war that he endorsed against the mothers & children of the Arab sphere?
he looks like darth vader
jopsakka 1 day ago
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tigersforchrist 1 week ago
I loved this man!!!!
watchulla 1 week ago
Christopher Hitchens..........A hero among free thinking, logically minded good and decent people. The tea party.....so full of hate. Just like relgious fundies.
MrHaggis03 1 week ago
Belief in God is nothing but a silly superstition, and this superstition leads a significant portion of the population to be delusional.
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awhitesoul2012 1 week ago
Hitchens, the brash ignoramus Brit who thinks he has a better grasp on American politics than...Americans. Hitchens is the worst kind of 'expert' on such affairs and is a pathetic little panderer of the Communist 3rd rail, and should have his ass ran out of our country for being the weasely, seditious, little prick he really is...
dloloa 1 week ago
@dloloa He was American. He became a citizen, lived here for years. Not to mention that he was an investigative journalist: he spent more time in D.C. than I presume you or I have, so I figure his opinions are just as valid, if not more informed. And just going by the content, eloquence, and sheer rationality -- not to mention humor, of both his written work and his spoken word, I find it more worthwhile to consider his arguments than your anger at your own relative irrelevance.
niclasjt 1 week ago
@niclasjt
Hitchens many have been an American 'on paper'. Nothing more. On his 'intellegence', have you ever wondered why he chooses the 'scientifc' debate over the political (e.g. Divine Birth) ? It's because it's the LEAST relevant, just like his followers. Were he to be challenged on the political significance of such matters, he'd tuck his tail between his commie ass cheeks and run for cover. You see, some of us actually know his game. If you don't, then its above you. Move on.
dloloa 1 week ago
@dloloa Tough, nearly schizophrenic talk. But the Cold War is long over and you sound confused and bitter. Hitchens spoke of ideas, and was not only a frequent guest on political panels, but did the majority of his reporting on world issues, politics and society. He chose a rational, scientific viewpoint because that it the approach one adopts when they want to understand the world. Clinging to dying ideas might help you slip quietly into the night, but the optimal word there is quiet.
niclasjt 1 week ago
@niclasjt
Again, it's above you. One clings to scientific viewpoints (only) when they best serve ones needs. Attempting to bring mankind down to a purely scientific level, devoid of exploring moral impratives was his goal. Once you understand that world affairs are rooted in moral vs immoral, it becomes obvious that omission is impossible. Someone's value system always prevails over another. Science is an afront, like Hitchens fans, to this. The optimal word here is...afront.
dloloa 1 week ago
@dloloa Your supercilious, patronizing retorts are comedy. Truly, there is a moral imperative to much of the human world, but science does not validate all, for it demands univeral truths. You still cling to outmoded historical dogma, which, ultimately, serves only to oppress. Hitchens worked for good by serving pathetic shills such as yourself the truth that neutralizes your ugly need for control via misinformation. You are increasingly powerless and irrelevant, and flailing hard.
niclasjt 1 week ago
@niclasjt
More drivel from the peanut gallery. Sorry St Nic, but religion and government are linked systems. Hitchens, worked to enrichen himself at the expense of shallow little twits, who are incapable of deciphering more than one throught-train at a time. Hitchens arguments would make any 3rd grader proud, since it all boils down to 'you can't prove it, nah, nah, nah.' BTW, saw a great movie tonight, by Clint Eastwood; "Afterlife" was excellent and more entertaining that Hitch ever was.
dloloa 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 I am not sure what rule you are referencing but all the nations I listed are not minor exceptions to the use of religion. Go back to ancient Egypt and you will see how state and religion have been intertwined.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 I agree that capitalism is a better system. What I am saying is that Marxism as it was theorized is different than what has been practiced by the USSR. Marxism in theory gives control of production to workers who vote on decisions and elect the managers. By stateless I mean no state, no government, no nation, none. That's the theory of Marxism.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson Listen. To use a marxist quote: Everything solid melts into air. Why are you splitting hairs? They don´t. They want things to float into eachother, but for opposite effect. To cause confusion. I just want to simplify. They are all the same ideology of the state Takin' Ova with the promise of safety. And my original post mention all (or many atleast) deviant branches of Marxism. But they are all the same. Like Catholicism, Lutheran and Baptist are all Christian.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83
Sorry pal, but you need to brush up on your reading. Catholicism is not the same thing as Christian. There's no doubt the Catholic church revels in such cliam, just like the crowd that claims Jesus was the "son" of a Jewish carpenter. Jesus was the Son of God, and Christianity was never melded into a cross-secular belief system whereby everyone opposing it can lay claim to holding dominion over it. Christianity is a stand alone system, devoid of paganistic 'man gods'. Read Up!
dloloa 1 week ago
@dloloa what the hell are you talking about? Divide and conquer tactics don't work on me.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83
It appears engaging you on facts doesn't work well either... You wanna piece of me. Bring you a game. I don't engage in simple(ton) cliches. Your statement of the 'many deviant branches of marxism' tell me you don't know shit. Karl Marx was the father of the communist movement - a movement that was forced on Russian citizens during the "Russian Revolution" (the second attempt). If you know so much about communism, of what religion was Karl Marx ? Hint - the Czar was Catholic...
dloloa 1 week ago
@dloloa it appears "facts" are whatever you spew out.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83
Again, bring you A game sweet pea. I asked you simple question. Can you answer it, or not ?
dloloa 1 week ago
@dloloa If you want me to get mixed into some sionist conspiracy I will not, but Marx was a jew.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83
No Andy, that's not the intent. However, since this board is all about 'bashing' religion, I'm dying to see how many here will show "parity" and inform us about all the evils of Judaism. Are you an expert in that area?
dloloa 1 week ago
@dloloa No, but I am fascinated by conspiracy theories so I have read some articles and viewed some videos on youtube about the subject. Is it just me or do we get fewer signs on this video?
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83
If you're referencing the 'abbreviated' responses, I've experienced that over the past couple days. It's intended stifle effective communication between members. Add to that my misspelling of the 'security' words and it gets pretty annoying. It's cleared up today, after I blamed the mod for invoking such. Anyway, don't go native on me. There's nobody more open minded than me and I'm willing to listen to everyone's argument. I just can't stand pettiness. Let's keep the depth. OK?
dloloa 1 week ago
@dloloa Now I got the full number of signs again:-)
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83
The other thing to remember is; "They're only theories, if you inhibit yourself from researching and establishing for YOURSELF whether or not they are "just theories".
dloloa 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 You really do not know what Marxism is. All socialist ideology is the belief that the means of production should be in the hands of the public. This includes communes, labor unions, worker control of industry, local government control, community organizations, as opposed to private companies and businesses. Some ideologies think the state should control business, some believe community organization can do it. You realize that there is such a thing as state capitalism.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson Okay. Fine. I think it's time to quite. You can have your world view, I don't care. But everyone with half a brain know that there is connotation, clear influence, dangerous similarities (collective thinking, power to a central state) between them all and Marxism was the genesis for all those bloody revolutions and countless years of suppression. All Marxist say "[those who disagree] got it wrong". But I think I know best ;-) But fine, you believe Marx is more.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 I am not a Marxist. I do not share his world view but I at least understand it and know the difference between Marxist theory and the communist states we see today. Centralization of the state is a trend that is common in ALL major powers including the US. Remember that the US became more centralized as a result of the Constitution as opposed to the decentralized confederacy of the Articles of Confederation.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson I understand it perfectly Mr. Jason. I even quoted "The Communist Manifesto" written by... guess who? Come on. Guess. Who wrote "The Communist Manifesto"? Marxism isn't communism. Nonsense!
But even though I won now. My main point was that communism is one of two roads of atheism (the other being nihilism). A well reflected (that means not just saying, but thinking like an atheist) becomes one of those. I repeat that because that is a far more interesting point.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Just because you use a quote from an author without knowing what it means does not make you an expert. I am saying the way communism has been implemented in the USSR, Cuba, China, and Vietnam is different from the way Karl Marx envisioned. Atheism absolutely does not lead to communism or nihilism. I guess Thomas Paine, Leonardo Di Vinci, Voltaire, and even Thomas Jefferson are nihilist commies since they either supported atheism or the separation of church and state.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson First of; You are right. I am no expert. I have no degree in ideological history or understanding. Secondly, I do however know very well what that quote means at it´s a very important quote about modernism. It´s about estrangement from the cultural one is living in. It´s basically an ideological celebration to anomie. The marxist want to create a culture with no law, so they can become the only law. They are the solution to their own created culture of void.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson Atheism does lead to nihilism or socialism. There is of course objectivtivism which also is a non nihilistic, highly polarized (extreme) world view that was created by an atheist but I don´t know enough about the bases for how it can defend atheism and still believe in "truth". Basically, what it means is that an atheist either belives in nothing, or he has a religious belief in himself (objektivism) or state (soscialism). Both are very materialistic and ugly.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 - This has to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard. It's pretty obvious that you don't actually know any atheists. It's the same self-insulation which always enables uninformed bias. Atheists are simply critically thoughtful people who have more optimism for humanity's potential than to see it as a farcical diversion for a neurotic god. All non-theists are actually ethically evolved, because they don't require divine threats or subservience to be good people.
TheWanderingPrimate 1 week ago
@TheWanderingPrimate Oh, u are such a fooool. I don´t know any atheist? Oh, God! Stupid, stupid, stupid. But what is more fascinating is the mob mentality. How u atheist have this compulsive need to try to serve people, but it´s always you who get F´ed in the A.
Why? Here´s some clues for the clueless. 1) Few atheist have a sense of humor (they believe smugness is the same), 2) no understanding of what is human 3) preaches theories as fact to people who know the difference.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@TheWanderingPrimate 3) the semiophobia of everything that shows an ounce of being "holy", 4) the meme-ish re-gurgle of quotes and slogans from better, more bright atheist, 5) the belief that atheism is the only logical conclusion, when it´s far from logical as we observe the universe, 6) the often hypocritical defense of Islam as some sort of victim to the big bad Christian religion, 7) the complete misinterpretation of history that in sum is Christianity kept us down.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 4) Sloganeering is a simplistic tact used by ALL ideologues, and theists certainly invented it. Atheism and its relatives have only existed a fraction of the time religions have. 5) Atheism is the only logical conclusion because civilization depends on empirical process. If you use words like "logic", you are adhering to this mandate. 6) I have not heard atheists defend Islam. If it is such experiences that are informing, I understand your point. But it's atypical.
TheWanderingPrimate 1 week ago
@TheWanderingPrimate 8) the need to make every argument be about "logic" in the most narrow of sense, often with the need to draw in some Latin phrase in hope that the other debater hasn´t heard of wikipedia, 9) the neurotic need to deny and ask for proof and the psychotic melt down that follow the quid pro quo. I mean the list is endless. So many atheist are dull argumentative people who just think that to say "this is stupid" is debunking the opponent.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 - Oh good... a list. Let's see: 1) That's ad-hominen nonsense. Theism is literally defined by its suppression of nature, impulse, and by arguable association, FUN. History is on my side. 2) Atheists are a rung on the ladder of philosophical (read: critical) thinking. Explain how theism better "understands" humanity, if it is unable to evolve alongside it 3) Holiness is a sensation, and it can come as easily from Newton, Feinman, Jesus, or the Dalai Lama.
TheWanderingPrimate 1 week ago
Comment removed
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@TheWanderingPrimate @TheWanderingPrimate So now when you "take me to school" about my many "fallacies" like a nevrotic counting tiles so their mother won´t die, I can point out the many different atheist cliches you are putting to use while "rebutting" my list. It took one sentence before an "ad hoc" latin logic phrase deprived from any humor or self-irony. So far from any self-awarnes that you do not even see that by even bothering to answer just proves my many points.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 7) History is dynamic. That is, our understanding of it will always change. The Church has actually done many positive things for science and the arts, and still commits humanitarian efforts. However, there is no real denying that the Christian European "dark ages" after Constantine were a period of cultural and scientific stagnation. Specifically, the problem has ALWAYS been the alliance between church and state, more than religion itself (which has its own baggage).
TheWanderingPrimate 1 week ago
@TheWanderingPrimate I think u better stop listening to the memes. Dark Ages was not the Christians fault, but was the period in European chaos after the fall of the Roman Empire (that fell because of great expansions and politics, NOT religion). The chaos, war, etc caused the written language, and the preservation of culture to fall. Thus no written record from the dark ages exist. Christian munks pulled us out. The middle ages, are the time when Christianity ruled Europe.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 8) This seems to just be an anti-intellectual rant, not worth responding to. 9) This also is more ad hominen irrelevance. Atheists I know and have known are reasonable and thoughtful people. You either have had some extremely unusual experiences, or you are just inventing them for your argument. I agree that ideologies, including atheism, can be restraining absolutes. But the point is to engage critically with what we are presented. To use reason before faith.
TheWanderingPrimate 1 week ago
@TheWanderingPrimate if you can´t see the trouble with casting out Latin phrases seems ad random then I can´t explain it. But I would like to know how come so many atheist feel the need to brag about it. Does the American college ed. prog. have a mandatory rhetoric class or do just every atheist who loves to quarrel participate in it or do you just read the wiki articles?
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 - I didn't go to college. I'm just well-read and reasonably intelligent. I don't see how knowing some VERY common latin phrases has anything to do with any of my actual points. It's an insecure and irrelevant rebuttal.
I don't listen to memes. I read. A lot. You should too, because you don't have a very good grasp on the history of Europe. Rome was 3/4s fallen by the time of Constantine - it's irrelevant. The Church became the prime authority equaled only (cont.)
TheWanderingPrimate 1 week ago
@TheWanderingPrimate First of there is nothing common about latin, just as there is nothing common Sumerian. Both are dead languages. But this is a fascinating discover. From now on I will ask that question to all "freethinkers" I am discussing from the first time they drop the "logical fallacy Latin"-bomb. This I need to find out. Why? Is it a hand-book for atheist with one of the steps being "#X) Learn them Latin phrases, be shutting them bitches theist right up"?
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Yes, Latin is dead. But language is flexible, and certain phrases remain in use. This needs to be explained to you? You know, you have yet to actually refute anything I have said. All I see is whining about my vocabulary and completely irrelevant (and baseless) assumptions about my education.
When seeming educated and intelligent becomes a liability, you know the end is on its way. I'm done here, good luck in life. Try to keep an open mind - you'll be happier for it.
TheWanderingPrimate 1 week ago
@TheWanderingPrimate I never said you "seemed educated and intelligent". I was just musing about the atheist need for Latin phrases to spice up the debate. Calling this and that "ad aliquid aut aliis". I am more of a Latin beat sort of guy. You know SALSA!
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 by the Crown. This alliance DID create what we call the dark ages - the efforts to maintain orthodoxy and hierarchy called for suppression of critical debates and philosophy (direct threats to the Church), opposition to science, demonization of diversity and sexuality and all manner of "heresy", ie., any deviation from the Church's rule (which often had little to do with actual doctrine, and had no trouble rewriting such when necessary). Again, the issue is church+state.
TheWanderingPrimate 1 week ago
@TheWanderingPrimate Nonsense and lies. It´s a meme. Bits of "facts" (lies) told enought times to a wanting audience and then it becomes true. Tell me do you believe it was called the "dark ages" because it was dark or because we are kept in the dark?
But you go right ahead and believe what you want to believe. A "critical thinker" like yourself can find it our for yourself ;-)
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 ...We agree, you are no expert. The quote in the Communist Manifesto was about the self destructive tendencies of capitalism. You must be referring to Marshal Berman's "All that is Solid Melts into Air."
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson Hehe. This I have to spell in capslock.
IGNORANCE ALERT! Better do some research there... Oh, to hell with it. I quote wikipedia: "The title of the book is taken from the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels." SCHOOLED!
AndyAce83 1 week ago
(Sign) Berman's article discussed modernism and used that quote which in its original context was talking about the self destruction of capitalism.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Objectivism was created by Ann Rand who was a laissez-faire believer of markets who is admired by many conservatives and Republicans. Atheists do have values and believes, they just aren't in god. They believe in strong ethics and moral values. A study by Phil Zuckerman actually showed that non-religious people prove to be less nationalistic, less prejudiced, less anti-Semitic, less racist, less dogmatic, less ethnocentric, less close-minded, and less authoritarian.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson "do have values and believes". Yes, and they are hallow. An atheist can defend infanticide ( watch?v=YWkJ6cZ0FY8 ), cannibalism (watch?v=PWGVCtGgqIA), pedophilia (watch?v=w02Mgwbv3tg), rape (/watch?v=d-jldQErbqs) etc. The point is that yes you do have values, if you behave like Christians, but when you really go down and reflect you either become a nihilist ("I had a really nihilistic day that day") or socialist or some other horrible freak like on those videos ;)
AndyAce83 1 week ago
Using four random videos does not negate factual, scientific research. For one thing Richard Dawkins discussion of cannibalism was more of posing a question to his interviewer, not an endorsement.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
While I don't support his view on infanticide he was simply arguing that killing a child in the knowledge that he will suffer from a disease is more moral than letting him live in pain.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
I am not even going to respond to the pedophile question for two reasons. First, this man is a well respected or reputable atheist and does not represent most views.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson I think that perverted man is a great example of a "freethinker". Objectively sound arguments. On a subjective, emotional level (like I feel there is a God) and humane level I hate every word he says, but it seems logically sound.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 That one man does not resemble atheism anymore than the people who say "god hates fags" resemble christians. Now of course the church isn't going to say that pedophilia is their policy but when you don't prosecute the criminals and just transfer them, you are allowing this epidemic to continue. Also that "source" you cite is probably reliable.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
Secondly, I don't even have to mention the thousands of cases of pedophilia that have been rampant in the Catholic Church to make apparently clear how idiotic you are on this topic.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson Oh, yes. Let´s not forget those perverted priests. Do you think the Catholic church or any other church condones pedophilia like that mad nihilistic atheist guy in that video? Do you think you ever will hear that? No! Christian practice does not condone that.
Secondly, I heard somewhere that although there is unfortunately lots of sex.abus in churches there are LESS of it than in the "secular" world. It just gets more publicity when it happens. Which is natural.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
The final video is misleading because the man says in a clearly hypothetical situation where if he absolutely knew his actions would save lives, he would. Again, not an endorsement.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson No, is logical reasoning. It´s atheist ethics. It´s utilitarian (Spock´s need of the many) ethics. Lot´s of people talk in hypothetical and do complete opposite. When Christians does it we call them hypocrites. But atheist lower the bar when they speak in hypothetical. So when they "fall from grace", they really, really do ;-)
We say "be not unfaithful", atheist say "do not get caught". We say "rape is wrong", you "well okay. If I want to or have to. Whatever."
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 @JasonCIAHudson The only thing atheism requires is that I don't believe in a god. What any atheist does outside of not believing in a god has nothing to do with me. There are no "Atheist ethics" every atheist decides what they think is right or wrong on their own and if you need to fear some god to be nice you really weren't a very good person in the first place.
dilt4 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 When we talk about hypothetical they are in fact hypothetical. That man would never rape anyone. Atheists do believe rape is wrong and killing in the name of anything is wrong. That study does show atheists have higher morals than Christians in reality while Christians defend themselves by saying "I believe all life is sacred...except all those people we killed over the centuries.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
The millions upon millions of people who have died in the name of religion will greatly disagree with your assertion that Christians are more moral.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson Atheism has killed more people in the last century than any 2000 years of Christianity. AND YES: atheism have to stand responsible for communism if I have to stand accountable for Catholics and jews...
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 The only thing atheism requires is that I don't believe in a god. What any atheist does outside of not believing in a god has nothing to do with me. The reason why people are blamed for what their religion does is the fact that it was done in the name of religion. Atheism has nothing to do with communism. There is no link between them. I would also like to point out that Hitler was a christian since I'm sure you're using this as an example.
dilt4 1 week ago
1/2 @dilt4 (rhetorical nonsense to make a very real cultural movement untouchable. How can go against something that changes shape and definitions like a borg-shield. I have no trouble with people "who just don´t believe in a god" (what you define as atheist, but there are VERY FEW off) I am talking and always have about the religious-cultural atheist. The one who listens to the prophets of Dawkins and Hitchens. Who want to redefine atheism however they feel like.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 No there isn't. Atheism by definition is to reject the claim that there is a god. That's it, nothing more and nothing less. When people say that atheist nations are less violent they mean that it's less violent because of the fact that religion is not an issue there. I'll say it again athiesm requires nothing more than rejecting the idea of a god. Me sharing the same view as another atheist doesn't mean that we share that view because of atheism.
dilt4 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 I also can't understand how atheism would lead to more suicides. In my case and in many others I know atheism has caused me to have a greater value for life than I had when I was a Christian. If someone kills themself knowing that they have one chance at things they were probably prone to suicide in the first place. It's ridiculous to claim that we require Christian ethics to know that we should not kill. If that was the case we would be all dead by now.
dilt4 1 week ago
@dilt4 Well it doesn´t matter that u "understand" its still statistical "fact". Here have a look: bit.ly\zY8hiv
I can´t understand what the difficulty in understanding that meaning 2 an atheist is pleasure & when pleasure disappears (i.e terminal diseases, loss of someone they F´d alot, financial loss that will lead to not affording iPhone 4S) then life is something to waste. Not everybody fines the beauty in looking up at the stars & thinking "I am a part of that void. I am stardust"
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 It's not a bloody fact and for your information I find so much more beauty in the universe than I do in some sadistic dictator god. It was my science books and my mind that kept me going while I was beat every day and night by my religious family as a child. By your logic if the only reason for living is God why do you do anything but devote your life to the church? Isn't that all as meaningless? Is the fact that your bible says that you can't kill yourself the only reason you live?
dilt4 1 week ago
@dilt4 No, it´s not a fact, just as evolution is not a fact. But it is good science.
Thank you for playing atheist. You lost. They don´t call me the atheist slayer for nothing. ("They don´t call you the atheist slayer". OH, SHUT UP!) Them "freethinkers" tremble when I enter a thread. You see I have a secret weapon that few other theist have. I get down and dirty just as the atheist do. Stories will be told of my heroism; like "the song of Dilt4; the nerd who believed he could!"
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 What is wrong with you? Is it that hard for you to have a good debate without acting like an ass. You don't "win" anything and you failed to answer my question.
dilt4 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 As you can see, the church and state have always been one and used each other to suppress and control. If you love that than say so, "I love the state."
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 But don't pretend that all atheists want to rid religion in order to place the state in power. That's nonsense.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 I don't see how one study is fact ethier. That's not how this works. There are so many things to consider when doing a study like this that it's impossible to say that ethier side has a higher suicide rate.
dilt4 1 week ago
@dilt4 I understand that study hurt you & it´s natural for an atheist to try to suppress it. Because science tells us that few atheist are in jail, but it´s only a study when more atheist jump over bridges. Yes, that is right. I believe you lost the argument & now fog talk to pretend everything is okay. As I have always said: atheism is just plain unreflected nonsense. "It´s okay, it´s okay. 42. 42. Haha. Ain´t that the truth. Stupid religion. Haha. Me smart, them be all like SPAGHETTI!"
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 How do you regress from having a semi-intelligent debate to putting your head this far up your own ass? You somehow managed to dodge the ridiculous bullshit that athiesm is anything but rejecting the claim that there is a god and you're now running off with your bogus suicide study as some sort of victory for creationism. I don't see how this solves anything or ends the debate.
dilt4 1 week ago
@dilt4 Oh, well isn´t his nice. You can´t accept defeat can you. Now the link I gave you is not only "just a study" now it´s bogus. "Freethinker" go back to your lair! I have vanquished you! Go bother some other, less intelligent theist. You are way out of your league!
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 And don't say "I vanquished you." You are not that intelligent and don't understand history.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Christ you're stupid. You've had your ass kicked again and again but are too dumb to do anything but repeat the same boring crap.
MrAlsfan5 1 week ago
@MrAlsfan5 fool, and I pitty you. But feel free to contact me if you ever feel suicidal. I´ll try to talk you out of it. Maybe I´ll even share my love of Christ with you.
Don´t commit suicide "freethinker", there´s always hope, love and faith even if your friends have deconstructed the terms. Something is, beyond cultural relative social construct.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Like I said, too stupid to realize that you've had your ass kicked. You're like a looped tape, programmed to repeat the same shit over and over again. No thought, just the same crap. That is why you are such a loser.
MrAlsfan5 1 week ago 4
@MrAlsfan5 You go ahead and tell yourself that. But my offer stands. If you want to kill yourself, I will look past your angry attitude now (I know it´s atheist pathology and I forgive you for it) and try to help you if just existing for no reason becomes to unbearable :-)
I will stay on youtube, so just write down my nick and will talk. There is always a reason for living. God has a plan for you to :-)
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 LMFAO! Me listen to a bible thumper? That is a joke and so are you. Suicide seems more an option of someone who is sure of meeting his maker and since you believe in a god than go for it, please. One less bible thumper is always a refreshing thought.
MrAlsfan5 1 week ago 5
@MrAlsfan5 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 4 Leave them; they are blind guides leading the blind. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah.
MrAlsfan5 1 week ago
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@MrAlsfan5 I spit in your general direction!
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 *Isn't everything just as meaningless for you? Is what I meant instead of Isn't that all as meaningless.
dilt4 1 week ago
2/2 @dilt4 i.e atheism follows your definition; "don't believe in a god." when there is critical arguments to be had (like communism killed more than any theist religion or atheist are more pron to suicide or atheist are untrustworthy people who either has adapted christian ethics or are without one). But when their is praise to be had: i.e atheist are smarter, atheist nations are less violent then ATHEISM IS A CLEAR COLLECTIVE GROUP. There is more to atheist than not believing in a god.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 I am not saying that Christians have to be accountable for what happened in the name of their religion. But to pretend that their philosophical views are morally superior to atheists and that atheists automatically have no morals, than I will bring up your past. Yes the USSR and communist states were secular but it was there totalitarian beliefs that made them brutal. You forget that most Western nations today have no state religion and are secular.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 You also forget that their are more religions that Christianity. While Christian nations have been responsible for all of Europe's wars before the 19th century, the inquistions, persecution of non-believers, the destruction of whole nations, religion has been used the same for Islam, Hinduism, and various other religions used in Ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt, Persia etc.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
Since you fail to the role that church and state play than I take it you agree and see how idiotic your views are. Please don't respond unless you have new evidence.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson I don´t get this last what. Since you fail to the role of wha..? Are you talking about secularism or what? Bah, what do I care. I took you to school... Showed you how perverted a well reflected atheist can be. At least we Christians try to be good. We don´t applaud pedofile even when it happens in our midst. We do not accept rape. We are the true idealist. Atheist is... Something ugly in disguise (can´t show it yet. To weak). When you rule, humanity dies!
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 His study also showed that in the US, in states with the highest percentages of atheists, the murder rate is lower than average. In the most religious US states, the murder rate is higher than average. Now of course I can tell from your other responses you do not believe in facts and logic so let's just disregard this
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson Have you seen the movie Robe by Hitchcook? You should.
Fun Fact: atheist commit suicide at a faster rate than any theist. I think it has to do with the level of reflection vs hardship. Most people who suffer are religious (being in jail, poor etc) those who are rich and well educated moves away from those "fairytale" cuz they be better than that. Then suffering struck. Nothing to live 4. Goodbye.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Let's go back to examining the role of the state. Atheists do not automatically put their faith in the state. In fact history has proven that religion has allied its power to the state. In EVERY SINGLE DICTATORSHIP, EMPIRE, NATION STATE, AND GREAT POWER BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE UNITED STATES COMBINED THE CHURCH AND STATE. Communism is the ONLY exception to this rule. In fact countries that are secular like the US and European countries are less authoritarian.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson First most dictatorships have been Communist. The only theist dictatorship was Nazi Germany (and much evidence seem to indicate that Hitler used some religions as allies (i.e Catholicism) and others he tried to exterminate (jews, Lutherans). The reasons was that some religions are more focused on a leader than others (i.e the pope of Catholicism). As for pre 20th century; theocracy (kings and feudal lords) is not a dictatorship (especially pre-democrazy).
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 But you are just going to continue to disagree so let's not bother continuing this ignorant conversation. BTW I noticed you complained about how atheists complain that Islam is oppressed by Christians. Have you seriously never listened to Christopher Hitchens or Bill Maher. They HATE Islam. They call it a totalitarian, authoritarian, backwards religion. You should really learn more about a person before you make idiotic comments.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
Neocon warmongering jew drop dead. oh never mind, done
BornToDie90 1 week ago
Too sum up Hitchens as a socialist is quite the claim. Especially being that he left Europe for the United States.
zacwheaties 2 weeks ago
@zacwheaties
Actually, that's no surprise at all. All parasites must seek out 'new opportunities'. He wasn't a socialist, he was a friggin' commie. Plain and simple.
dloloa 1 week ago
Fun Fact: Christopher Hitchens is a socialist who believes 1984 is about religion. Also he is dead. So I don´t think his opinion matters in any way you look at it.
AndyAce83 2 weeks ago
@AndyAce83 not fun and not a fact
punkuddha 2 weeks ago
@punkuddha I guess it´s relative. But since you people need evidence for any claim hows about this gem: Her Hitchens talks about 1984 as it was about RELIGION: watch?v=F3HV9xko8ME
AndyAce83 2 weeks ago
@AndyAce83 I watched it. There was nothing about religion. I did not even hear one word about religion. Thanks for sharing though.
punkuddha 2 weeks ago
@punkuddha You´re right.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Here's a fun quote from him: "I am no longer a socialist, but I still am a Marxist." By your logic we shouldn't listen to the opinions of Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington...because they're dead. I don't believe he said 1984 is specifically about religion but about totalitarianism in general.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson You really want to discuss this? I was just making fun of a horrible atheist. And being a Marxist is basically the same as a socialist. Marxist is just what they called it before it became Socialism, Bolshevism, Leninism, Stalinist and Communism. They all want to replace God with State and to replace the individual with the hive.
Just because he want to call himself something else does not make it different.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Lol. Wow, are you ever stupid. Either you're totally misinformed, or just an idiot.
MrAlsfan5 1 week ago
@MrAlsfan5 Haha. I win! Cuz you be dropping names. Atheist be so so stupid. And the irony is they be thinking they be sooo smart. Haha. Whooo.... See ya.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Your grammar is so poor as to be almost beyond understanding and you think Atheists are stupid? What a moron. Go spout your bible crap.
MrAlsfan5 1 week ago
@MrAlsfan5 You be a stupid mo fo fo sho! I be all like streetwize yo feel me, bitch! I busted you! PAWND! FACE!
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Try it again in english.
MrAlsfan5 1 week ago
@MrAlsfan5 Dra til helvete din gudløse styggdom. Bare et selvhøytidlig fjols som deg kan kaste bort så mye tid på en tullete kommentar om et idiotisk lik som nå er så råtten at ikke engang hans barn vil gjenkjenne han. Mannen var, som alle ateister, ond. Han drakk, var stygg i kjeften og var frekk mot til og med de som likte han. Håper du bruker en oversetter for å finne ut hva jeg nå skrev, for da er du en jævla taper :-)
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Well, I suppose I shouldn't have asked you to try it in english as you obviously don't understand english.
MrAlsfan5 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Socialism is a very broad system of economics that is simply where the means of production are controlled by the public. Marxism is an economic and sociopolitical world view that the human history is the history of class struggle. Communism as Marx originally conceptualized would result in a classless, stateless society where there is free access to all individuals to produce. This is different from how communism has operated in the Soviet Union, Cuba, and Vietnam.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson I don´t agree and yet I agree and ironically fine your entire post highly cultural-marxist in it´s expressions. What you now have done is corrected me by deconstructing, complicating and pointing out the differences between A, B and C when I said they are all letters. Socialism, Marxism and communism may differ on some part, but they are THE SAME where it COUNTS. They are the same where freedom, liberty etc get´s stolen. They are the same in their lies of history.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 I'm not endorsing his ideas, I'm just saying there is a distinction between Marxism, Communism as we know it, Leninism, Trotskyism, and Socialism. It's the same distinction between Mercantilism, free market capitalism, social market economy, state capitalism, corporatism, and a mixed economy. He doesn't want to replace God with anything, he just wants God gone.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson There are two logical -isms that follows atheism. If we see atheism as a social cavity that needs to be filled with some other -ism to not make it so hallow it can only logically be filled with nihilism (nothing means anything) or socialism (the state or "we") decide what is and what isn´t. Cultural-relativism is the way to either.
As is my mantra: "Atheism is just unreflected nihilism"... but I could add "or socialism"
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Again your interpretation that communism, socialism, and Marxism as theories subvert freedom by placing the state in charge is not true. Marx's communist theory leads to a stateless society where there is no state and all decisions are made collectively by the people. Whether this is practical is irrelevant. Capitalism is not immune to the state either. Capitalists systems have given rise to authoritarian regimes such as in Chile or Indonesia.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson If by "stateless" you mean "worldstate" then yes Marxism is that. And if you mean collective decisions are made by an elite then right again. Although, you do not seem to state that, but instead give a strange interpretation of Marxism as a kind of democracy, which it is not.
As for capitalism, like democracy, is not perfect. But it does the least bit harm to existence.
AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 Fella, you don't know a thing about Marxism - so I figure you don't know history, or even the capitalism you tout. You embarass yourself by proffering opinion on something you know nothing about, while bandying terms that reduce your argument to fallacy "Worldstate?". That's the backwards fear-the-world ideology that is peddled in the media that mendaciously packages up important ideas with facile fear-words so you can ignore it. Don't talk out your ass. It's ugly.
niclasjt 1 week ago
@niclasjt Oh, I bet you do. Probably a Marxist yourself, and that makes you an expert. Just as a member of Scientology knows more about the E-meter. So tell me mr Smartypants who want to take others to school: What is Gulag? Tell me about SMERSH. What was CPSU Central Committee stand on slaughter of Christians?
People who claim ignorance should learn abit about history, you fuck. Soviet expanded because of ideology. What do you think the cold war was about?
AndyAce83 1 week ago
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AndyAce83 1 week ago
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AndyAce83 1 week ago
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AndyAce83 1 week ago
@AndyAce83 There is no logic that socialism or a powerful state will rise from atheism. Authoritarian states have used religion as a means to accumulate power and control masses of people for most of human history (Roman Empire, Islamic Caliphates, British Empire, French Empire, Spanish Empire, Holy Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Dutch Empire, Portuguese Empire). Society's choice is not between Atheism and Statism.
JasonCIAHudson 1 week ago
@JasonCIAHudson All of those red left ideologies is filled with "freethinking" atheism. I know that you know can bring forth Christian socialism etc. etc. But the point is that exceptions to the rule does not destroy the rule although that is what cultural Marxism and deconstruction wish. I am not an anarchist so I have no problem with authority but I want to control who is in control (democracy).
AndyAce83 1 week ago
Its Bruce Willis!!!!
KnivesOfTheRound 2 weeks ago
bless you chris you were and are in a better place than we are we are all one
OtherTwin 3 weeks ago
How ashamedly ignorant.
Stammon 3 weeks ago
If he didn't like last election, at least he doesn't have to see this religious spewing festival, uhh i mean, election.
3xAmigosProductions 3 weeks ago
Its funny,In Europe Spanish people are considered white,yet in America,they are considered a separate race."Hispanics",why?
Leinster4life13 3 weeks ago
@Leinster4life13 Hispanic means mix between Spanish and South/Central American, so it's not the same as a Spanish person. There are way more Hispanics than Spanish people in America, so I imagine any person speaking Spanish is assumed to be Hispanic.
PoliticsStudent 3 weeks ago
@PoliticsStudent but surely they are all of Spanish/European descent anyway,Didn't the conquistadors/settlers kill all the natives?
Leinster4life13 3 weeks ago
@Leinster4life13 They killed many, certainly, but not anywhere close to all of them. The fact that there are so few "pure" natives today is because of centuries of integration.
PoliticsStudent 3 weeks ago
@PoliticsStudent You're wrong. "Hispanic" actually just refers to people from Spanish-speaking countries.
yurismir1 2 weeks ago
@yurismir1 uh, to take that a step farther, the term "Hispanic" was invented by the US government, and is not really used outside of the USA. also Latino's (or Latin Americans in a broad sence) in centeral and south american are considered white buy the natives... which is fair, because they are caucasoids... basically, the US government (to my understanding, as a canadian) uses this term tfor anyone they think is "browner" than whites. had nothing to do with laugauge.
GreaseStain 2 weeks ago
@GreaseStain Also Spanish people are from Spain.... lol
GreaseStain 2 weeks ago
@yurismir1 "The term has also been used to denote the culture and people of Spanish colonization of the Americas countries formerly ruled by the Spanish Empire, usually with a majority Hispanophone population."
PoliticsStudent 2 weeks ago
from the thumbnail I thought it was Bruce Willis
TheReecerPiecer 3 weeks ago 2
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Who can listen to the zeroes in the TeaBag "Movement"? A collection of fringe crackpots, anti-immigrant paranoids, conspiracy theorists, sociopathic "libertarians", and other cranks.
They get FHA loans, use food stamps, cash disability checks and get medicare but want the "socialist" government "off their backs". They could vote for useless ignoramus bubble-heads Christine O'Donnell but hysterically hate "Kenyan, Maoist, Muslim" Obama.
SocialDemocrats 3 weeks ago
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SocialDemocrats 3 weeks ago
I dont like how hitchens tried to discredit truthers, birthers and tea party people. maybe im just a conspiracy fuck, but people who label the tea party as racist to me just epitomize mainstream corporate establishment hacks working against the interests of the common american.
Hadesofthe07 3 weeks ago
@Hadesofthe07 What if it's true, though? Just a thought.
manthasagittarius 3 weeks ago
@manthasagittarius kinda interesting to have this discussion now, considering that iran just said they wanted to kill the jews. well its a generalization against a group for a invalid reason, no tea party leader claims to be rascist so to accuse the group of said claim is is just hollow slander. maybe some r racist but so r some dems and republicans. would u accept the criticism that your party is more racist than another based on someones dishonest establishment slant?
Hadesofthe07 3 weeks ago
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Hadesofthe07 3 weeks ago
This guy is such a fucking retard.
EODtchwon 3 weeks ago
bruce willis ? what happend to your accent?
YsnBrk1 4 weeks ago
Brilliant man. But reminds me of the General from Stargate SG-1 when he's bald.
agnosticChurchworker 4 weeks ago
@agnosticChurchworker Pffff Balderdash!!! He was no more than a psuedo-aphorist
CazUnlimited 3 weeks ago
Hitch, we are so much worse off without your wisdom, we need you to bring the common sense to the party
tattyboo83 4 weeks ago
The Tea Party is focused on one general political/economic message: limited government. That everyone else extrapolates a racial component is bizarre and I think revealing of those who claim a racial element. Why is this not a bash against OWS as well? OWS in New York has over 80% white, higher than the national average (let alone metropolitan). Racist claims against he Tea Party is a projection, because it can't be an observation.
steele967 4 weeks ago
@steele967 If you really believe that then answer me this. Would anyone be accusing Barack Obama of being a Muslim or of not being born in America if he was a white man named John Smith? I didn't think so. Tea party members might dislike him for his political views but they would not have taken it so far without the underlying racial distrust.
OrderedChaos010 3 weeks ago
@lifeschild1 well said
crueltyfreeme 1 month ago
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"Wikipedia: Hitchens has written of his homosexual experiences when in boarding school in his memoir, "Hitch-22." These experiences continued in his college years when he allegedly had relationships with two men who eventually became a part of the Thatcher government.
Was sodomite Christ' Hitchens' hollow death an early Christmas gift, or retribution for the total-war that he endorsed against the mothers & children of the Arab sphere?