onemarktwoyou- have you ever tried thinking for yourself. There is not one shred of evidence for any person called Jesus outside of the bible. It is a massive delusion, you can live a life free from this fairy tale, and trust me you will be happier for it. Merry Xmas
Certainly George Fox would had seen himself as a Christian but what was distinctive about his teaching was that he believed each person could be guided by the "light of Christ" without the need for a priest. That infers individual interpretation of "the things of God" and that is what the Quakers on this video are doing. They are not trying to be "Fox clones".
If anyone has ever taken the time to read the actual writings of George Fox himself, then there can be no doubt that Fox was indeed a Christian. His basic beliefs closely resemble that of the early Pentecostal Holiness movement of the early 1900s. - It's very clear that most modern Quakers, with the exception of possibly Evangelical Quakers, are not Christian. Their views tend to parallel that of Buddhists, finding the light or God within yourself, which is not what George Fox taught at all.
@froberts7 I disagree to an extent because you are being very exclusive , as a Quaker I believe Jesus was the son of God in the same way I am the son of God and every personal alive is either the son or daughter of God. I believe that Jesus was a teacher inspired by God to teach what he thought was the best way to God and bring people closer to God. I think his crucifixion was not to save us but to show how selflessness is a way to God. He was selfless insofar he could have turned away and done
Either or; black white; in out; perfect examples of dual thinking. I think most British Quakers probably do see Jesus as divine but then they look for the "spark of God" in all people.
Either you accept that Jesus is the Son of God or you do not. It is impossible to be a Quaker and reject the Divinity of Christ. All Quakers begin with an understanding of Jesus as the Son of God. It is at that point that we begin our journey to God. Jesus is the only pathway to God. This is so because He said so. Being a Quaker and denying Christ is the same as being Muslim and yet denying the importance of Muhammad.
@ParadigmShiftr My reading of the gospels skows me that Jesus was more interested in how people lived rather than the labels they wore or what they professed to believe.
@srekauq You need to re-read the Gospels, there are many examples of when Jesus has asked for people to believe. Belief and faith are very clearly important as far as God is concerned, to believe otherwise is to fool yourself
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one cometh to the Father but by me". No one can get to heaven without having Jesus as their personal saviour. Denying the deity of Christ is a rejection of God, and therefore Christianity.
your view is too narrow-minded. Jesus and God are the same thing. " God, considered in terms of his eternal Idea, has to generate the Son, has to distinguish himself from himself; he is the process of differentiating, namely, love and Spirit "(by Hegel) if you accept existence of GOD(love and spirit) then you accept the deity of Jesus, although a few quakers may deny the deity of Christ in their mind, but when they let their spirit fly free they are connecting with God (or Jesus)
@truthinlifeful Yes, true, I believe every person has the same capacity for good within them. My only reasons for not liking fundamentalism is when it conflicts with that basic goodness. For example; not allowing blood transfusions, killing and physical harm or when particular people are devalued. When people try to justify these actions, that's when it becomes truely evil. I wouldn't call it a disease per se, but It does tend to leave one run down and lethargic.
@truthinlifeful I'm sorry you feel that way. I just don't think fundamentalism benefits humanity in any form. You seem somewhat passive agressive if you don't mind me saying. I don't agree with atheists on the matter of a deity but would never call them "not much of anything". I do however think a lot of them have a much better grasp on the philosophy of morality than most fundamentalists.
Oh fuck me, look at all the religious zealots battling it out with these comments. Oh, and in this corner we have the Catholics and in the other corner the Christians, Any Muslims? You all sprout your righteous rhetoric like verbal diarrhea. At least the Quakers seem a little more reasonable and open-minded than fuckwitted Christain bigots - who the world would be better off without. When us atheists come accross this idiocity, we laugh, 'cause it's all so fucking stupid. Don't you think?
@clumpft As a quaker, I identify more with atheists than any religious fundamentalist. At least you generally seem to have made an informed decision. At the end of the day, i see quakerism as a set of ideals around which i live my life. Whether or not i choose to believe there is a divine hand guiding the maths at the heart of the universe is superfluous.
Speaking from a historical standpoint. Quakers have one of the higher (if not the highest) percentile of positive social impact. They've stood up against inhumanity....pure inhumanity (not selective) against mistreatment..Christianity is mostly railroaded by politically votes and money..I would go as far as to say that there probably are not any Quaker people in prison..and that says a bunch. Freedom to love GOD in silence as an individual is the highest form of freedom. That has to feels good.
I belong to the Church of England The Anglican Catholic Church. Fr. Godfrey said to me that the quakers would not exist without the church. In my view it is far-too liberal and they DO NOT fix their eyes on Jesus. Without a creed there is no foundation. This is why it is sinking. However, I think that there concept of Jesus coming to earth again is fantastic! But the bible is Gods word & it is a book which we should live by. I would like to come to one of your meetings.
I belong to the Church of England The Anglican Catholic Church. Fr. Godfrey said to me that the quakers would not exist without the church. In my view it is far-too liberal and they DO NOT fix there eyes on jesus. Without a creed there is no foundation. This is why it is sinking. However, I think that there concept of Jesus coming to earth to earth again is fantastic! But the bible is Gods word & it is a book which we should live by. I would like to come to one of your meetings.
I attended my first Quaker meeting last week after thinking for the last two years I agree with all the main concepts of Quakers.. While Quakers started out from a Christian belief system, you do not need to believe in any particular ideology. You just need to realise the light of God is in everyone and we are all equal. There are so many contradictions in the Bible which was controlled and rewritten by the Catholic church and the Pope, who is after all the historical rep of Ceasar not God!
Personally. I think Jesus being the son of god, might just be a way of explaining us all. Jesus, was perhaps just a well informed son of god. : )
I believe Jesus preached a message of kindness, of Love. I accept Jesus as a man, or even a fictional character, who is to be sure? I accept Jesus as a wise person giving an opinion. AN opinion about love, and life, and equality.
I have lived my life as an unreligous Catholic. But I think I might be Quaker. I'd like to go to one of the meetings.
@mickeymoo26 Jesus is the only way to God! John 14:6~ Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
@dis00612 Yes stay Catholic. One thing you can do is go to your local Catholic Church and attend "faith formation" classes (they only run about 6 weeks, maybe 2 hours max). You'll learn the HISTORY of the Catholic Church, among other things, and leave knowing you belong to the true Church.
I think what the elderly woman said sums it up best: there is the eternal Christ, and the historical Christ. The concept of being a good, gentle, forgiving person like Christ is eternal.
@foxthequaker You cannot be the Quaker and be an atheist you are extremely confused . Quakers are children of GOD and worship in the spirit and deny themselves ...don't claim to be a Quaker and deny Christ . Just because you may like there life style or whatever reason you call yourself a Quaker there is only one way to be a child of GOD and that is through Jesus Christ which all true Quakers believe is LORD and KING
Quakers may be Christian but that is obviously up to the single person. To deny the Credo, deny that Jesus is God and Man, and the only path to salvation is through him, that is not to be Christian.
If you are considering joining the Quakers, are you also planning on leaving Islam which denies that Christ is our Savior and the Son of God? Quakerism is a Christian faith and was intended to be "primitive Christianity revived"? The Bible says one cannot serve two masters. You're welcome to join the Quakers but please realize you can't be both a Muslim and a Quaker at the same time.
If you attend a Meeting already you are already a Friend! If you are interested in becoming a member have a word with an Elder or Clerk at the Meeting you attend. Quakers are not required to agree with any particular creed, as I expect you know.
Do liberal Quakers celebrate Christmas? I know that historically Friends were very opposed to it but I'm curious about their feelings today, specifically among the liberal Quakers.
The ODD IRONY is the fact that JESUS NEVER MENTIONED CHRISTIANITY NOR DID HE EVER REQUIRE THE DISCIPLES TO CALL THEMSELVES THAT ABOVE DOING THE WORKS THAT JESUS TAUGHT.........TRADITIONS OF MEN NEVER CEASE TO CLOUD ORIGINAL DOCTRINE
pathoftruth, the problem is that JESUS never SANCTIONED A FORMAL NAME AS A CRITERION.........JESUS DIDNT DEAL IN FANCY NAMES AND LABELS....JESUS DEALT IN GOOD AND RIGHTEOUS WORKS......TALK WAS NEVER BIG WITH JESUS....JESUS EVEN QUOTED ISAIAH WHEN HE SAID THAT "THESE PEOPLE ARE NEAR ME WITH THEIR MOUTHS BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME".
SATAN TAKES THE ALLEGED GOOD WILL OF MAN OUTSIDE THE DIRECTION OF GOD AND TURNS THEM AGAINST GOD AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED
For physical evidence of God.... To the calmly curious- For physical evidence of a second intelligence within yourself-Vivid Dreams onset, plus repeatable handtingles- search YouTube on LAY GNOSIS 1 BEGIN HERE site truebluehealerDOTcom-Regardless of beliefs-Even atheist testimonials, including doctors from 4 countries. 10-12 mins gets you started. A growing list of triggered 12 month gnostic veterans contactable. And its FREE
A way of understanding the truth by which Quakers are is the example found in Luke7:20-23 in which Jesus is asked by John's disciples if he is the one to come? Jesus indicates the works that he has done. So too with Quakers, we show ourselves in our works,in their integrity, whatever their scale. Works as mindful worship. Works as revelatory.What we do is the outpouring of the Light which animates us.
What an eloquent expression of the meaning of faith in action, letting lives speak - unifying for Quakers and spiritually outreaching to others of diferent faith or none. Thanks.
Our being Christian is not one of static alignment with an external creed, a dead word.
We worship a Living Word, an intimate and vital Word that animates who we are.
For Quakers, we are grounded within the Living Word. We do not exclusively contain such Living, we cannot conceptually entrap such Living, that is impossible for us, but insofar as we attentively give ourselves to our true Source do we manifest that of Christ within, speaking Christ in the acts that flow from such a ground.
You also believe Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to salvation and follow His teachings. If you reject Christ how can you say you are a Christian?
I work with a Quaker meeting and while I respect them for their social outreach and community mindedness their avoidance of confessing Christ as their Lord and Savior by definition precludes them from being true Christians..many of them become anxious at any religious reference..they are like the seeds sewn in shallow ground.
The members of the Quaker meeting of which I'm a member would not hesitate to confess that Christ is their Lord and Savior. I"m not sure of what meeting you work with but it does not sound like a true Quaker meeting to me.
Are there not also those who claim Christ as their Lord and Saviour but become anxious at any reference to faith in action. I respect Christians and any who let their lives speak more than their aspirations for personal salvation.
One thing I will say, if you want to know anything about early quaker doctrine, the last place you should go is a quaker meeting. People dont know there. At most you'll get 'it depends on the quaker' or what has become our cliche`line 'that of god in everyone'(without understanding its original meaning. Quakerism today has become too humanist, and for the sake of being 'open minded' lost its original identity and values. Best to look quakerism on the net.
The early quakers would only ever take on a social cause if they felt moved to by the Lord because only then would one's actions be sanctified.Today it seems as ifbeing involved in political and social reforms and protests is an unspoken creedal obligation. Quakerism isnt activism. The definition of 'evil' for the early quaker christians wasnt 'war' but the egotism and ignorance caused by original sin.Our only true obligation as quakers is to submit ourselves to the light and be cleansed of sin
I am a member of Bangor meeting in wales. While I am definately not an orthodox christian I would have to say that quakers if they are not christian then they are not quakers. Quakers trembled before the word of the lord and waited on an eternal inward christ which played a real part in time. Today most quakers are just activists and uncertain spiritual philosophers . Most quakers I know today are more concerned about climate change than they are about being an instrument of God.
One thing's for sure about this video...hardly anybody in this video is absolutely sure about what he or she believes in. I'm wondering why it's so difficult for people to take a stand for Christ instead of engaging in a form of religious waffling. Either we accept Christ as the Son of God who died for our sins or we reject him. The choice is clear. There's no in-betweens. As Jesus says in Luke 11:23: "He who is not with me is against me." How much clearer does it have to get?
It is up to each individual to decide what being 'with Christ' means. Quakers often campaign against wars and for social support. This, for me, is more 'with Christ' than what most Churches do. Sola fide is a complicated concept. We must understan that real faith will elicit real transformation, and we can see this in some churches and not others. Faith without action is a lie used to cement social status or to salve guilty consciences.
"stampguy01", Quakers do not have a problem knowing that they believe. Each person listens to God on his or her own. Each person comes away with that unique experience. No one speaks for the rest. That is why Quakers do not state what all other Quakers believe.
As for "Luke", "Luke" is the word of Luke, not the word of God.
@stampguy01 Spirituality is about asking difficult questions; not about accepting easy answers. The point of Quakerism is to unite people; not divide them by making rigid and arbitrary distinctions about their beliefs or superstitions. There is an overwhelming consensus within Quakerism that we are all welcome, regardless of what beliefs we can swallow. In this sense, we are united. Love God and love your neighbor. "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Pretty clear. :)
@stampguy01: Your absolutism verging on dogmatism I find more questionable than honest and articulate enquiry from those interviewed. Many Quakers would not claim an apriori knowledge of an object through a faith you seem to blindly be suggesting. If you are absolutely sure of your position the emphases rest with you to become an apologist for your faith and evidence your position... Quakers will say,unlike you, we do not claim to know all the answers and this is more intellectually honest.
George Fox, founder of the Quakers, wrote, "This Jesus, who was the foundation of the holy prophets and apostles, is our foundation; and we believe that there is no other foundation to be laid than that which is laid, even Christ Jesus; who tasted death for every man, shed his blood for all men, and is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." So walkerorr, do the so-called "new Quakers" believe or deny what Fox said?
Anyone who says he's a Quaker but doesn't follow Christ is not a true Quaker. From the start, Quakerism was referred to as "Primitive CHRISTIANITY REVIVED." Why are we called the Religious Society of Friends? That name comes from John 15:14, when Jesus said, "Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you." Dear viewers, please do not be deceived by these people who call themselves Quakers. They have nothing to do with true Quakerism. Research the history of Quakerism for the truth.
I know somebody in the US who is a Quaker, and he claims to be an orthodox Christian in belief. I think there is a liberal/conservative split. I get the sense that Quakers in some parts are sort of like Unitarians- the place where vaguely spiritual people go to when they feel like other churchers aren't for them?
Anyone who is not Christian is NOT Quaker!!! Quakerism was founded upon beliefs that we, Quakers, could find Christ wilthout the anglican church. Christ lives within if you are a true Quaker. Quakerism was started so that you could go to Jesus Christ directly and not through a priest. This idea of not Christian Quakers is a spit in the face of George Fox and a spit in the face of GOD!!!
We do not accept them as true Quakers for they have no Faith in the one thing that binds all Quakers, they have no faith in Christ Jesus and thus no faith in God. They are false in all senses and not accepted by True Quakers. I will always stand up for my Lord, Christ. I ask you to do some research on early Quakers. I cannot deny you of your opinions but i can deny your claim of being Quaker for you are not of true Quaker belief if you speak out against Christ or stand up for other false Quakers
RyanBeeson's statement is completely true and accurate. Dear walkerorr, please read the Journal of George Fox (the founder of Quakerism). Read about how he spoke out for Christ and proclaimed Jesus the Lord of the World! Quakerism is "primitive Christianity revived" and I would strongly recommend anyone interested in learning more to read the earliest writings of Friends like George Fox, Robert Barclay, William Penn, Isaac Pennington and others. Their writings can easily be found online.
well obviously some sects have different beiliefs on the matter. you might bellive the old ways of quakerism. while i and everyone at my meeting house believes the new quakerism.
There is no such thing as "the new Quakerism." You and a few others- yes, I mean a few- and the statistics will show that to be a fact- have invented another religion that you can call "new Quakerism" all you want until you turn red in the face, but it's not. It's simply just another form of univeralism/secular humanism that offers no hope to anybody because it's not rooted in Christ. Look at BYM's Faith and Practice- it's all over the place with no consistency and tons of human opinions.
I am a multi-generational Friend but not a Christian. That's not to say I don't think he had some great thoughts.
It isn't all about George Fox. Margaret Fell, who became his wife reformed the prison system in England. That's my version of Quakerism. Activism brought on my the Inner Light.
I am Quaker & Christian. Without Christ the Quakers would not be. Where did the idea ever come from? The inner light? While I am a universalist I also will never run away from Christ.
prayforbob-When Jesus came inside me it felt like a Body my perfect size coming in, thats God inside me, he told me persecution is him trying to make me loose my salvation, torturing, things like, electricity on scalp causing itching, electriity spiking caressing penus, gum desease, face muscles tighten when used like winking, causing tearing, I see Jesus in visions and he laughs at me, says, I want you to comit sin in front of those you witnessed to, keep falling, keep slipping, run from me
The term Christian refers to hundreds of churches, which in general, believe that their own is the only correct way to God. Quakers are not so ignorant as to have such a belief. This is why there is no outward baptism or communion etc. Therefore, using the modern term Christian does not apply to Quakerism, unless you are Evangelical Friends ... It is a Universalist Faith because we do not need to be saved, we simply need to be silent and to know! 'Be still and know that I am God'
or you are in the roots of George Fox? He was a friend of Jesus, and not o friend of every religion and philosophy in a world. I feel much sadnees in me, when I see the quakers today.....
In 17C England Fox probably did not encounter much non-Christian religion or philosophy. He did face persecution from Christian authorities fearful of the radical egalitarian message of his teaching - that everyone can have a direct relationship with God without the mediation of hierarchies and that all (including those of other religions or none) have that of God within us to which we can speak and respond in each other. This teaching endures today - a reason for hope rather than sadness.
Yet, there are those who want to call themselves Quakers while not giving a moments reflection to the distinctions between one's conscience and one's emotions, the light within and our responses to the marketing without.
The loss of the values and traditions of simplicity and plainness hurt me too when I attend a meeting for worship.
I've been to silent meetings in which there was no silence, only the babbling of unquiet minds. But this is American culture, to be without reflection, and has nothing to do with other religions or doctrines, but more to do with a lack of education about Quaker practice and the religious philosophy behind it.
Yes, the name "Religious Society of Friends" is based on John 15:14 where Jesus says, "Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you." Being a Quaker means being a friend of Christ and one who follows Christ's teachings. Also it means accepting and believing that Christ died for our sins.
denominations... they remind me of the corinthian book. Paul express his disapproval towards the corinthians when they start forming their little "groups" and calling them by names I cor. 1:10=17. I follow no denomination. I say like Paul said: I belong to Christ. He is my Father, My Friend. He wrote a very detailed love letter for those who truly love Him: the Bible. He gives me strength,Faith for by grace I was saved. I strive to walk in the footsteps he left for us to follow.
Interesting question, as a Quaker myself I do call myself a Christian but I do sometimes cringe at that knowing what great damage has been done in the name of Christianity. Still, I am drawn to the cross and the words of Jesus. If other Quakers believe differently I can respect that and enjoy learning from them as I hope they do with me. I believe God dwells in us all so perhaps the labels are not important.Peace to all everywhere.
"There is a principle which is pure, placed in the human mind, which in different places and ages hath different names: it is, however, pure and proceeds from God. It is deep and inward, confined to no form of religion nor excluded from any, where the heart stands in perfect sincerity." -- John Woolman
"The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious, and devout souls are everywhere of one religion, and when death takes off the mask, they will know one another though the diverse liveries they wear here make them strangers." -- William Penn
For me the essence of the divine is within each person and does not derive from a supernatural being or the words of those who wrote the scriptures. Spiritual unity (like peace) can never be absolute but is something we seek through communion, in worship and daily life, with the divine in each and all of our fellows. This is what makes the gathered silence of Quaker worship meaningful to me. Jesus' life and teachings are an inspiration and whether I call myself a Christian or not is secondary.
The simple fact is that you don't have to be a Christian to be a Quaker anymore. During meeting I met some 'Quakers' who were atheists and some who told me they were Christian then in the next breath told me they did not believe Jesus was resurrected or that he was the Son of God...very odd
Wow! How great is your apostasy from our Faith. Fox said EVEN ONE CHRIST JESUS SPOKE, in old English that EVEN means ONLY. For a Quaker only one can speak to the human condition Christ Jesus our God. If you deny that you are not Quakers, you might use the name but you are not telling the truth.
What the liberal "Quakers" are doing is this - they cannot actually build an institution or church themselves, so instead they take over and "transform" other institution or churches, and remake them into their own image.
The most famous example in the USA is the Unitarian-Universalist church. These "liberal Quakers" sound exactly the same.
Nonsense. I've noticed a great difference between the hodgepodge (a lovely hodgepodge) of UU services and Quaker meeting for worship.
The taking over, I believe, is only God taking over the hearts of worshipers.
I am a Quaker educated convert to Islam. I was just guided that way. The really funny thing is that the more I practice, and "clean the rust from my heart", the more I feel like a Quaker on a prayer rug. I think we are all Friends in our souls, once we get to our souls.
"A Quaker educated convert to Islam"? You never indicated if you were ever a Quaker. But one thing is for sure, being a Muslim you deny that Jesus is the Son of God.
It is not me that describe these people as Quakers but themselves.
I attend meetings & I am 100% Christian. I believe Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to salvation
In the UK Quakerism is dying. The number of people attending meetings is getting lower and lower because they admit anyone to membership irrespective of what they believe. My personal view is that if you do not accept Jesus as your saviour you are not a Quaker BUT who am I to judge? "Thou Shalt not Judge" said Christ
Being inclusive and nonjudgmental was certainly not the point of Quakerism in the time of George Fox. George Fox was exclusive to a fault, thinking Baptists, Independants, etc. had to leave their groups and joine the Quakers, and that his group was the real Christians. Naylor disagreed in a series of letters. The historical Jesus IS the eternal Christ. Trying to separate the Lord Jesus like that is foolishness.
What's the point of being a Quaker if you aren't going to be a Christian? Why go to a Quaker meeting for felloship where other people there don't consider themselves Christians? I can imagine Fox, or at least Margaret Fox calling such Quaker meetings a part of 'Babylon.'
Universalism is not the way to go--if you're not for creedalism and the sacraments, that's fine. However, the Society of Friends was founded by a Christian, who believed wholly the Christian Bible, and as such, all true Quakers are Christians. In their attempts to find a more personable God, the more liberal Quakers have tried to create God in their own image.
Quakerism is a faith that is growing and changing all the time. 21st Century Quakerism is not 17th Century Quakerism. The statement 'all true Quakers are Christians' is erroneous. However many Quakers still consider themselves Christians.
No its not. It is dishonest to call yourself after a Faith founded on the revelation of Jesus and pervert it. Our worthy predecessors would have never recognize your liberal meetings as Quaker. And tell your Friends to stop posting insulting comments on my videos unless you want to prove that you are out of the Light completely.
Can I ask how you justify posting 8 comments on this video while not allowing any comments on your own? And how can I or anyone else know who is posting comments on your video or whether what they are saying is rude or insulting if you dont show them? If you are secure in your faith why do you need this censorship?
1. The up loader of this video allows comments without approving them so he gives me the right to post here. 2. I am not a liar, and if I ever really need to I can prove everything I wrote. 3. There is no censorship on You tube since you can reply on your own channel. You have no right telling others how to run their channels. Thanks.
Anyway, thinking about it again....maybe you have a point. Maybe it was a mistake to send all these comments here. I apologize. You can delete them, I don't mind.
Themistoklisp I am not the uploader of this video and would not want to delete your comments even if I was. I have not accused you of being a liar but you have accused unidentified 'Liberal Quakers' of posting rude, insulting comments without substantiating this in any way. I think it would be confusing and inappropriate to use the comments section here to reply to a different video. This is why I regret your 'editing out' of comments (including mine) on your own video.
When sending a Declaration to the King in 1660 concerning the Peace Testimony, early Quakers wrote that what God reveals to be true CANNOT change. Anyone can claim to be whatever they want the fact is that if you differ in the essentials to your founders, you have founded a different group. And it is erroneous to say that "Quakerism is a faith ...changing" while Conservative Quaker Meetings are springing out of nowhere around the world like a secret revival.
The very fact that some of the Quakers in this video say 'no, we aren't Christian' should be a good indication that they don't all consider themselves Christian...wouldn't you agree?
That is one reasonable interpretation. Another reasonable interpretation might be that certain persons are falsely claiming to be Quakers without addressing the essential characteristics of their claim.
It appears as though some Friends are equivicating unduly from a lack of investment in the works of Robert Barclay (An Apology for the True Christian Divinity), Job Scott (Essays on Salvation by Christ) and reading scripture devotionally and inductively. I fear that this is to the detriment of the Society (corporate and individual) spiritual vitality. The result are false and misleading statements such as some of the un-Christian assertions above.
I am not presently persuaded that such is either a "fact" or "important to remember". To the contrary such an assertion is, to my mind, akin to a claim that certain dogs are actually geese. The onus of proving the validity of the statement lies with the party making the claim, and there are significant impediments to persuading others of its veracity.
As I understand history, Friends have consistently asserted axiomatically that the Quaker experience is nothing more, nor less, than the most pure and simple expression of the Gospel. It is the detractors and opponents of the Society that were making the claims that Quakerism was not Christian, or that its Christian vitality could not be maintained in the absence of a rigid hierarchical administrative structure.
Examples of this attitude should be readily evident by any reading of Fox's Journal or the early Quaker writings. I cannot speak for LYM, but all of the early American disciplines made it clear that explicit profession of faith in Christ is requisite to be full member of the Society. I was unaware that there was a sense that Christ has been leading elsewhere. It seems that such a would be germain to understanding the basic identity of the Society.
Perhaps the American Quakers have a different stance on Jesus than British Quakers. Have you been to meetings and met Quakers? They have no written creed. There is no dogma, creed or set of beliefs that 'must' be obeyed. The very essence of Quakerism is set against dogma. They do not deal in absolutes.
I am unsure how one can address religious assumptions about the purpose and meaning of the world, our place in it and our relationships with others, without establishing apriori assumptions that serve as "absolutes" for day to day living.
If I am not mistaken, the Valiant 60, Penn, Fox and Barclay were all British.
Quakers have united on certain important issues such as homosexuality, the importance of telling the truth, womens rights, slavery, pacifism, gambling. The list goes on but on some issues they are (for want of a better word) divided and still disagree. They believe that Christianity is not the only religion that can teach us. We can learn from other faiths too. Yes those guys were all British Quaker pioneers and were persecuted for their beliefs
Quakers are not united on the subject of homosexuality. Evangelical Friends (including many from FUM) consider it a sin while many Liberals don't. Conservative Friends also consider it wrong. I think you have a very limited understanding of Quakerism and all rooted in Liberal Friends which worldwide are a minority (FUM is the majority). By the way there are 3 different Quaker traditions in the UK today Liberal (BYM), Conservative and Evangelical (according to EFI website).
"Evangelical Friends missions effort in Europe currently consists of several churches in Ireland, Romania, Great Britain, and Hungary. Please pray for the continued ministry in this area." (see EFI site: Europe).
Conservative Friends in the UK have Meetings in Britain, Scotland and Ireland.
Continued; they are very liberal as Christians go (although some Quakers argue they aren't Christians) Quakers believe in equality of the sexes, homosexual relationships (involving love) are not wrong, alcohol & tobacco are not sinful (in moderation) Quakers tell the truth at all times, they are pacifists & detest violence. They have 'guidelines' for living as they don't like dogma. I hope this answer helps but if you have more questions get in touch with the Quakers and they will send you info
Quakers don't have a set 'creed' as it were so its not easy to sum up as their views differ but basically; God's love & light exists in each and every person regardless of their creed, colour or culture. God is with us at all times. Dogma is a big no-no. Quakers think Religious leaders & scripture are un-necessary to have a relationship with God. They worship in silence without sermons or hymns. They believe the Holy Spirit moves them to stand and give 'ministry' during the silent worship.
Interesting. Here in America there are "Christian" meetings and...well..more liberal ones. I am part of a Christ centered yet progressive gay friendly meeting but I can't say there are many like us...it seems most Christ centered are not very progressive...
Quakerism is a faith based on Christianity but I feel it has come further than that. Not all Christians are Quakers, not all Quakers are Christians. At this year's NYFSG, only about three out of ten people in my discussion group classified themselves as Christians but we all said we're Quakers. So I think to be a Quaker, you just have to believe in "that of God in everyone", not necessarily in the literal existance of God. I don't believe in God, but I still consider myself a Quaker.
saosina, as a Quaker who doesn't believe in the literal existence of God, what is the nature of "the God in everyone" you and many other Quakers speak of? Just curious.
I would say that the "God" is a metaphor for the potential and seed of good that we all bear. To me at least, I would take that to mean that nobody is purely bad, and everyone deserves to be treated accordingly, hence my pacifism and my objection to capital punishment.
Interesting. Many critics of the Bible have said that the god described in that is metaphorical and that the Holy Book itself was never intended to be taken literally (particularly evident in the use of language). Do you think one can object to pacifism (NB: that does not equate promotion of violence) and still be a Quaker? What are your views on abortion in relation to being a Friend?
I'm not sure about the pacifist side of Quakerism, really. All the Quakers I know are pacifists, but that doesn't necessarily mean you must be a pacifist to be Quaker. Hmmm...I think you can object to pacifism in the form of passive resistance, if that's what you mean. As for the abortion issue, I can't give you my stance as a Friend, since I don't know how I'd feel if I wasn't a Friend. I've been Quaker all my life. But personally I'm pro-choice.
As an agnostic searching for the meaning of life, I would fit into Quakerism very well indeed. It is obvious that Quakers are not INHERENTLY Christians, as this and the other videos show, but MOST Quakers are Christians, thus giving Christianity a major role. Non-theist and non-Christian Friendsalso exist.
diuint, Quakers are not inherently Christians by the simple fact that they have no set creed and belief in God, let alone Christianity, is not essential to adherence to Quakerism. Inexorably however, Quakers have a long history tied to Christian roots.
Read Barclay's Confession of Faith which all Quakers used to subscribe too. Actually before the 20th century all Quakers considered themselves Christians. Christianity is not a Creed but a following and obeying the Light, Jesus Christ.
You're right, but I am speaking of modern-day Quakers. The simple fact that one can be a atheist and a Friend, a Muslim and a Friend etc. show that faith in a literal deity, let alone Christianity, is not an integral part of Quakerism. Only three out of ten Quakers identify as Christians.
Friends United Meeting claim to be the largest Quaker body worldwide and they are Christians. Evangelical Friends International have Meetings even in Europe and they are Christian, Conservative Friends have Meetings worldwide and they are Christians. Liberal Meetings have Quakers who identify as Christians so who are the 3 out of 10? Are you talking about Quakerism worldwide or in a particular country (lets say Britain Yearly Meeting in the UK)?
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was referring to Quakers in the UK, using their official site. Regardless, Quakerism is based on individuality and I re-iterate, theism is not an inextricable belief to being a Quaker, thus it isn't inherently Christian (and cannot be classed in theory as a Christian sect), although it may be that most Friends wordlwide consider THEMSELVES (as individuals) to be Christians. I am not denying the link. I.e. Catholics ARE inherently Christians.
Well then I can see that Quakers in the UK must be false Quakers according to your statements of Quakers! I think before you can make such vague and vulgar statements you need to research Quakerism in its entirety and not the mondern day crap. My family came to America with William Penn to escape English persecution so they could worchip Jesus through His spirit in us all and not through a priest!
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onemarktwoyou- have you ever tried thinking for yourself. There is not one shred of evidence for any person called Jesus outside of the bible. It is a massive delusion, you can live a life free from this fairy tale, and trust me you will be happier for it. Merry Xmas
24414330 2 months ago
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I can understand denying the trinity, but to deny Christ!
You are not a christian if you do not believe Jesus's divinity.
onemarktwoyou 2 months ago
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fuck me in my ass
Eric2827 3 months ago
Certainly George Fox would had seen himself as a Christian but what was distinctive about his teaching was that he believed each person could be guided by the "light of Christ" without the need for a priest. That infers individual interpretation of "the things of God" and that is what the Quakers on this video are doing. They are not trying to be "Fox clones".
srekauq 3 months ago
If anyone has ever taken the time to read the actual writings of George Fox himself, then there can be no doubt that Fox was indeed a Christian. His basic beliefs closely resemble that of the early Pentecostal Holiness movement of the early 1900s. - It's very clear that most modern Quakers, with the exception of possibly Evangelical Quakers, are not Christian. Their views tend to parallel that of Buddhists, finding the light or God within yourself, which is not what George Fox taught at all.
NazariteNation 3 months ago
ConchurMacUait1 Well put.
srekauq 4 months ago
@froberts7 I disagree to an extent because you are being very exclusive , as a Quaker I believe Jesus was the son of God in the same way I am the son of God and every personal alive is either the son or daughter of God. I believe that Jesus was a teacher inspired by God to teach what he thought was the best way to God and bring people closer to God. I think his crucifixion was not to save us but to show how selflessness is a way to God. He was selfless insofar he could have turned away and done
ConchurMacUait1 4 months ago
Either or; black white; in out; perfect examples of dual thinking. I think most British Quakers probably do see Jesus as divine but then they look for the "spark of God" in all people.
srekauq 4 months ago
Either you accept that Jesus is the Son of God or you do not. It is impossible to be a Quaker and reject the Divinity of Christ. All Quakers begin with an understanding of Jesus as the Son of God. It is at that point that we begin our journey to God. Jesus is the only pathway to God. This is so because He said so. Being a Quaker and denying Christ is the same as being Muslim and yet denying the importance of Muhammad.
froberts7 4 months ago
"Yes they're Christians. That doesn't mean, necessarily, Christ was divine..."
Being a Christian is defined by the belief that Christ was divine; God's son.
"Personally, no."
Then you're not a Quaker.
"There's room for people struggling with the idea of God."
There is? Then this isn't Quakerism.
"...he was offended if you thought he was Christian."
Then he's not a Quaker. These people can't even agree if they're Atheists or not. Fox is turning in his grave.
ParadigmShiftr 4 months ago
@ParadigmShiftr My reading of the gospels skows me that Jesus was more interested in how people lived rather than the labels they wore or what they professed to believe.
srekauq 4 months ago 2
@srekauq You need to re-read the Gospels, there are many examples of when Jesus has asked for people to believe. Belief and faith are very clearly important as far as God is concerned, to believe otherwise is to fool yourself
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
Bronzewhaler82 3 months ago
@ParadigmShiftr Here here
Bronzewhaler82 3 months ago
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one cometh to the Father but by me". No one can get to heaven without having Jesus as their personal saviour. Denying the deity of Christ is a rejection of God, and therefore Christianity.
rapidrcs4593 6 months ago
@rapidrcs4593
your view is too narrow-minded. Jesus and God are the same thing. " God, considered in terms of his eternal Idea, has to generate the Son, has to distinguish himself from himself; he is the process of differentiating, namely, love and Spirit "(by Hegel) if you accept existence of GOD(love and spirit) then you accept the deity of Jesus, although a few quakers may deny the deity of Christ in their mind, but when they let their spirit fly free they are connecting with God (or Jesus)
roboticsun 6 months ago
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TSVictoria1 10 months ago
This video is soooo Quaker. If you ask 10 Quakers on any creedal issues, you get 20 answers.
TSVictoria1 10 months ago
@TSVictoria1 ?
gtube83 5 months ago
@truthinlifeful Yes, true, I believe every person has the same capacity for good within them. My only reasons for not liking fundamentalism is when it conflicts with that basic goodness. For example; not allowing blood transfusions, killing and physical harm or when particular people are devalued. When people try to justify these actions, that's when it becomes truely evil. I wouldn't call it a disease per se, but It does tend to leave one run down and lethargic.
foxmcloud555 10 months ago
@truthinlifeful I'm sorry you feel that way. I just don't think fundamentalism benefits humanity in any form. You seem somewhat passive agressive if you don't mind me saying. I don't agree with atheists on the matter of a deity but would never call them "not much of anything". I do however think a lot of them have a much better grasp on the philosophy of morality than most fundamentalists.
foxmcloud555 10 months ago
This is the American Religious Liberties Union.
Check out the video and the Website.
Thanks.
AmericanReligiousLib 10 months ago
Oh fuck me, look at all the religious zealots battling it out with these comments. Oh, and in this corner we have the Catholics and in the other corner the Christians, Any Muslims? You all sprout your righteous rhetoric like verbal diarrhea. At least the Quakers seem a little more reasonable and open-minded than fuckwitted Christain bigots - who the world would be better off without. When us atheists come accross this idiocity, we laugh, 'cause it's all so fucking stupid. Don't you think?
clumpft 1 year ago
@clumpft As a quaker, I identify more with atheists than any religious fundamentalist. At least you generally seem to have made an informed decision. At the end of the day, i see quakerism as a set of ideals around which i live my life. Whether or not i choose to believe there is a divine hand guiding the maths at the heart of the universe is superfluous.
foxmcloud555 1 year ago
Do the quakers even follow The Bible?
66thPsalm 1 year ago
@66thPsalm How do you mean follow?
I don't belive slavery is ok.
I don't belive i should stone my neighbour to death for working on sundays.
I don't believe animals not of cloven hoof are unclean.
I do believe that every lesson jesus taught in the new testament was good and true.
foxmcloud555 1 year ago
Speaking from a historical standpoint. Quakers have one of the higher (if not the highest) percentile of positive social impact. They've stood up against inhumanity....pure inhumanity (not selective) against mistreatment..Christianity is mostly railroaded by politically votes and money..I would go as far as to say that there probably are not any Quaker people in prison..and that says a bunch. Freedom to love GOD in silence as an individual is the highest form of freedom. That has to feels good.
tim23tom23 1 year ago 2
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I belong to the Church of England The Anglican Catholic Church. Fr. Godfrey said to me that the quakers would not exist without the church. In my view it is far-too liberal and they DO NOT fix their eyes on Jesus. Without a creed there is no foundation. This is why it is sinking. However, I think that there concept of Jesus coming to earth again is fantastic! But the bible is Gods word & it is a book which we should live by. I would like to come to one of your meetings.
pipeorgan09 1 year ago
I belong to the Church of England The Anglican Catholic Church. Fr. Godfrey said to me that the quakers would not exist without the church. In my view it is far-too liberal and they DO NOT fix there eyes on jesus. Without a creed there is no foundation. This is why it is sinking. However, I think that there concept of Jesus coming to earth to earth again is fantastic! But the bible is Gods word & it is a book which we should live by. I would like to come to one of your meetings.
pipeorgan09 1 year ago
I attended my first Quaker meeting last week after thinking for the last two years I agree with all the main concepts of Quakers.. While Quakers started out from a Christian belief system, you do not need to believe in any particular ideology. You just need to realise the light of God is in everyone and we are all equal. There are so many contradictions in the Bible which was controlled and rewritten by the Catholic church and the Pope, who is after all the historical rep of Ceasar not God!
c23e 1 year ago
Personally. I think Jesus being the son of god, might just be a way of explaining us all. Jesus, was perhaps just a well informed son of god. : )
I believe Jesus preached a message of kindness, of Love. I accept Jesus as a man, or even a fictional character, who is to be sure? I accept Jesus as a wise person giving an opinion. AN opinion about love, and life, and equality.
I have lived my life as an unreligous Catholic. But I think I might be Quaker. I'd like to go to one of the meetings.
mickeymoo26 1 year ago
@mickeymoo26 I am sure you would find a warm welcome.
srekauq 1 year ago
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@mickeymoo26 Jesus is the only way to God! John 14:6~ Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
66thPsalm 1 year ago
@mickeymoo26 no stay catholic. you are on th right path. :)
dis00612 1 year ago
@dis00612 Yes stay Catholic. One thing you can do is go to your local Catholic Church and attend "faith formation" classes (they only run about 6 weeks, maybe 2 hours max). You'll learn the HISTORY of the Catholic Church, among other things, and leave knowing you belong to the true Church.
FFFFbody 1 year ago
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quakers are cultists, just like mormons and scientologists
agricola 1 year ago
@agricola This statement is plainly erroneous.
srekauq 1 year ago 9
@agricola ' Cultists': Explain please?
wycliffe35 1 year ago
@agricola u mean heretical in the traditional Christian way.
djyk777 1 year ago
I think what the elderly woman said sums it up best: there is the eternal Christ, and the historical Christ. The concept of being a good, gentle, forgiving person like Christ is eternal.
TheVoidist 1 year ago
not all of us are Christians i'm an atheist quaker
foxthequaker 1 year ago
@foxthequaker You cannot be the Quaker and be an atheist you are extremely confused . Quakers are children of GOD and worship in the spirit and deny themselves ...don't claim to be a Quaker and deny Christ . Just because you may like there life style or whatever reason you call yourself a Quaker there is only one way to be a child of GOD and that is through Jesus Christ which all true Quakers believe is LORD and KING
Cartoonistforjesus 1 year ago
I believe that the practice of being compassionate to one's neighbor is good. I commend the Quakers for actively following that philosophy.
CoastakaMichael 2 years ago
Quakers may be Christian but that is obviously up to the single person. To deny the Credo, deny that Jesus is God and Man, and the only path to salvation is through him, that is not to be Christian.
karpov89 2 years ago
I'm not gonna watch this video. The title says enough. Ofcourse they can be christian. They can play any game they want as far as i'm concerned.
Drelaz 2 years ago
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I want to fuck the old duck's mouth so amazingly hard it's not funny! Check her out 0.24
cuntarsecunt 2 years ago
Pogman, it wasn't a waste of time on anybody's part. I wanted to make sure you were clearly informed about this matter. Have a good day.
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
If you are considering joining the Quakers, are you also planning on leaving Islam which denies that Christ is our Savior and the Son of God? Quakerism is a Christian faith and was intended to be "primitive Christianity revived"? The Bible says one cannot serve two masters. You're welcome to join the Quakers but please realize you can't be both a Muslim and a Quaker at the same time.
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
If you attend a Meeting already you are already a Friend! If you are interested in becoming a member have a word with an Elder or Clerk at the Meeting you attend. Quakers are not required to agree with any particular creed, as I expect you know.
srekauq 2 years ago
Do liberal Quakers celebrate Christmas? I know that historically Friends were very opposed to it but I'm curious about their feelings today, specifically among the liberal Quakers.
MassLiberal1 2 years ago
The ODD IRONY is the fact that JESUS NEVER MENTIONED CHRISTIANITY NOR DID HE EVER REQUIRE THE DISCIPLES TO CALL THEMSELVES THAT ABOVE DOING THE WORKS THAT JESUS TAUGHT.........TRADITIONS OF MEN NEVER CEASE TO CLOUD ORIGINAL DOCTRINE
VisibleEnigma 2 years ago
Jesus said for us to follow him and to obey his commandments. A Christian is one who follows Christ. There's nothing difficult to understand here.
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
pathoftruth, the problem is that JESUS never SANCTIONED A FORMAL NAME AS A CRITERION.........JESUS DIDNT DEAL IN FANCY NAMES AND LABELS....JESUS DEALT IN GOOD AND RIGHTEOUS WORKS......TALK WAS NEVER BIG WITH JESUS....JESUS EVEN QUOTED ISAIAH WHEN HE SAID THAT "THESE PEOPLE ARE NEAR ME WITH THEIR MOUTHS BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME".
SATAN TAKES THE ALLEGED GOOD WILL OF MAN OUTSIDE THE DIRECTION OF GOD AND TURNS THEM AGAINST GOD AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED
VisibleEnigma 2 years ago
Thanks for clarifying. I understand what you mean.
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
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For physical evidence of God.... To the calmly curious- For physical evidence of a second intelligence within yourself-Vivid Dreams onset, plus repeatable handtingles- search YouTube on LAY GNOSIS 1 BEGIN HERE site truebluehealerDOTcom-Regardless of beliefs-Even atheist testimonials, including doctors from 4 countries. 10-12 mins gets you started. A growing list of triggered 12 month gnostic veterans contactable. And its FREE
kimbo99 2 years ago
A way of understanding the truth by which Quakers are is the example found in Luke7:20-23 in which Jesus is asked by John's disciples if he is the one to come? Jesus indicates the works that he has done. So too with Quakers, we show ourselves in our works,in their integrity, whatever their scale. Works as mindful worship. Works as revelatory.What we do is the outpouring of the Light which animates us.
aussiewasteland 2 years ago 2
What an eloquent expression of the meaning of faith in action, letting lives speak - unifying for Quakers and spiritually outreaching to others of diferent faith or none. Thanks.
bangura4uk 2 years ago
Our being Christian is not one of static alignment with an external creed, a dead word.
We worship a Living Word, an intimate and vital Word that animates who we are.
For Quakers, we are grounded within the Living Word. We do not exclusively contain such Living, we cannot conceptually entrap such Living, that is impossible for us, but insofar as we attentively give ourselves to our true Source do we manifest that of Christ within, speaking Christ in the acts that flow from such a ground.
aussiewasteland 2 years ago
LEAVE QUAKERS ALONE!! Who cares if they believe in God. God is divine, and you believe that if your christian.
ProConstitutioner 2 years ago
You also believe Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to salvation and follow His teachings. If you reject Christ how can you say you are a Christian?
Bronzewhaler82 2 years ago
I work with a Quaker meeting and while I respect them for their social outreach and community mindedness their avoidance of confessing Christ as their Lord and Savior by definition precludes them from being true Christians..many of them become anxious at any religious reference..they are like the seeds sewn in shallow ground.
ghg1976 2 years ago
The members of the Quaker meeting of which I'm a member would not hesitate to confess that Christ is their Lord and Savior. I"m not sure of what meeting you work with but it does not sound like a true Quaker meeting to me.
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
Are there not also those who claim Christ as their Lord and Saviour but become anxious at any reference to faith in action. I respect Christians and any who let their lives speak more than their aspirations for personal salvation.
bangura4uk 2 years ago
One thing I will say, if you want to know anything about early quaker doctrine, the last place you should go is a quaker meeting. People dont know there. At most you'll get 'it depends on the quaker' or what has become our cliche`line 'that of god in everyone'(without understanding its original meaning. Quakerism today has become too humanist, and for the sake of being 'open minded' lost its original identity and values. Best to look quakerism on the net.
blackplato 2 years ago
The early quakers would only ever take on a social cause if they felt moved to by the Lord because only then would one's actions be sanctified.Today it seems as ifbeing involved in political and social reforms and protests is an unspoken creedal obligation. Quakerism isnt activism. The definition of 'evil' for the early quaker christians wasnt 'war' but the egotism and ignorance caused by original sin.Our only true obligation as quakers is to submit ourselves to the light and be cleansed of sin
blackplato 2 years ago
I am a member of Bangor meeting in wales. While I am definately not an orthodox christian I would have to say that quakers if they are not christian then they are not quakers. Quakers trembled before the word of the lord and waited on an eternal inward christ which played a real part in time. Today most quakers are just activists and uncertain spiritual philosophers . Most quakers I know today are more concerned about climate change than they are about being an instrument of God.
blackplato 2 years ago
A very true post, well done
Bronzewhaler82 2 years ago
One thing's for sure about this video...hardly anybody in this video is absolutely sure about what he or she believes in. I'm wondering why it's so difficult for people to take a stand for Christ instead of engaging in a form of religious waffling. Either we accept Christ as the Son of God who died for our sins or we reject him. The choice is clear. There's no in-betweens. As Jesus says in Luke 11:23: "He who is not with me is against me." How much clearer does it have to get?
stampguy01 2 years ago 4
Didn't he also say he who is not against me is with me?
wookie72 2 years ago
It is up to each individual to decide what being 'with Christ' means. Quakers often campaign against wars and for social support. This, for me, is more 'with Christ' than what most Churches do. Sola fide is a complicated concept. We must understan that real faith will elicit real transformation, and we can see this in some churches and not others. Faith without action is a lie used to cement social status or to salve guilty consciences.
wid85 2 years ago
"stampguy01", Quakers do not have a problem knowing that they believe. Each person listens to God on his or her own. Each person comes away with that unique experience. No one speaks for the rest. That is why Quakers do not state what all other Quakers believe.
As for "Luke", "Luke" is the word of Luke, not the word of God.
AntacidForTheMind 2 years ago
@stampguy01 Spirituality is about asking difficult questions; not about accepting easy answers. The point of Quakerism is to unite people; not divide them by making rigid and arbitrary distinctions about their beliefs or superstitions. There is an overwhelming consensus within Quakerism that we are all welcome, regardless of what beliefs we can swallow. In this sense, we are united. Love God and love your neighbor. "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Pretty clear. :)
Valerian1 1 year ago 2
@stampguy01: Your absolutism verging on dogmatism I find more questionable than honest and articulate enquiry from those interviewed. Many Quakers would not claim an apriori knowledge of an object through a faith you seem to blindly be suggesting. If you are absolutely sure of your position the emphases rest with you to become an apologist for your faith and evidence your position... Quakers will say,unlike you, we do not claim to know all the answers and this is more intellectually honest.
wycliffe35 1 year ago
George Fox, founder of the Quakers, wrote, "This Jesus, who was the foundation of the holy prophets and apostles, is our foundation; and we believe that there is no other foundation to be laid than that which is laid, even Christ Jesus; who tasted death for every man, shed his blood for all men, and is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." So walkerorr, do the so-called "new Quakers" believe or deny what Fox said?
stampguy01 2 years ago 3
Terrible Video!! False statments made about Quakers!!! ALL TRUE QUAKERS ARE CHRISTIAN!!!!
RyanBeeson 2 years ago 3
Anyone who says he's a Quaker but doesn't follow Christ is not a true Quaker. From the start, Quakerism was referred to as "Primitive CHRISTIANITY REVIVED." Why are we called the Religious Society of Friends? That name comes from John 15:14, when Jesus said, "Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you." Dear viewers, please do not be deceived by these people who call themselves Quakers. They have nothing to do with true Quakerism. Research the history of Quakerism for the truth.
stampguy01 2 years ago 2
I know somebody in the US who is a Quaker, and he claims to be an orthodox Christian in belief. I think there is a liberal/conservative split. I get the sense that Quakers in some parts are sort of like Unitarians- the place where vaguely spiritual people go to when they feel like other churchers aren't for them?
Magnulus76 2 years ago
You're referring to people who are described as "liberal" Quakers. True Quakers are rooted in Christ and Christianity. Thanks for the observation.
stampguy01 2 years ago 2
Good question. One better: Are most self-professing Christians really Christian?
rmlrobl 2 years ago
Anyone who is not Christian is NOT Quaker!!! Quakerism was founded upon beliefs that we, Quakers, could find Christ wilthout the anglican church. Christ lives within if you are a true Quaker. Quakerism was started so that you could go to Jesus Christ directly and not through a priest. This idea of not Christian Quakers is a spit in the face of George Fox and a spit in the face of GOD!!!
RyanBeeson 2 years ago 2
while most quakers are christains, some are not. but we accept them. i myself question the vadility of god, and/or christ.
walkerorr 2 years ago
We do not accept them as true Quakers for they have no Faith in the one thing that binds all Quakers, they have no faith in Christ Jesus and thus no faith in God. They are false in all senses and not accepted by True Quakers. I will always stand up for my Lord, Christ. I ask you to do some research on early Quakers. I cannot deny you of your opinions but i can deny your claim of being Quaker for you are not of true Quaker belief if you speak out against Christ or stand up for other false Quakers
RyanBeeson 2 years ago 2
that whole statement is against what we stand for. quakers belive in accepting all.
walkerorr 2 years ago
RyanBeeson's statement is completely true and accurate. Dear walkerorr, please read the Journal of George Fox (the founder of Quakerism). Read about how he spoke out for Christ and proclaimed Jesus the Lord of the World! Quakerism is "primitive Christianity revived" and I would strongly recommend anyone interested in learning more to read the earliest writings of Friends like George Fox, Robert Barclay, William Penn, Isaac Pennington and others. Their writings can easily be found online.
stampguy01 2 years ago
well obviously some sects have different beiliefs on the matter. you might bellive the old ways of quakerism. while i and everyone at my meeting house believes the new quakerism.
walkerorr 2 years ago
There is no such thing as "the new Quakerism." You and a few others- yes, I mean a few- and the statistics will show that to be a fact- have invented another religion that you can call "new Quakerism" all you want until you turn red in the face, but it's not. It's simply just another form of univeralism/secular humanism that offers no hope to anybody because it's not rooted in Christ. Look at BYM's Faith and Practice- it's all over the place with no consistency and tons of human opinions.
stampguy01 2 years ago 2
"tons of human opinions" a bit like the bible then? (but with a lot fewer different contributors than the bible has had over the centuries)
bangura4uk 2 years ago
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9Fabian 2 years ago
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9Fabian 2 years ago
very wise words here. 0:47
dellerbasalvtore 2 years ago
I am a multi-generational Friend but not a Christian. That's not to say I don't think he had some great thoughts.
It isn't all about George Fox. Margaret Fell, who became his wife reformed the prison system in England. That's my version of Quakerism. Activism brought on my the Inner Light.
couziers 2 years ago
I am Quaker & Christian. Without Christ the Quakers would not be. Where did the idea ever come from? The inner light? While I am a universalist I also will never run away from Christ.
boomac62 3 years ago
prayforbob-When Jesus came inside me it felt like a Body my perfect size coming in, thats God inside me, he told me persecution is him trying to make me loose my salvation, torturing, things like, electricity on scalp causing itching, electriity spiking caressing penus, gum desease, face muscles tighten when used like winking, causing tearing, I see Jesus in visions and he laughs at me, says, I want you to comit sin in front of those you witnessed to, keep falling, keep slipping, run from me
turturedservant 3 years ago
The term Christian refers to hundreds of churches, which in general, believe that their own is the only correct way to God. Quakers are not so ignorant as to have such a belief. This is why there is no outward baptism or communion etc. Therefore, using the modern term Christian does not apply to Quakerism, unless you are Evangelical Friends ... It is a Universalist Faith because we do not need to be saved, we simply need to be silent and to know! 'Be still and know that I am God'
Rock On ; )
jamzmagick 3 years ago
You are a club of philosophy,
or you are in the roots of George Fox? He was a friend of Jesus, and not o friend of every religion and philosophy in a world. I feel much sadnees in me, when I see the quakers today.....
1964HLX 3 years ago
In 17C England Fox probably did not encounter much non-Christian religion or philosophy. He did face persecution from Christian authorities fearful of the radical egalitarian message of his teaching - that everyone can have a direct relationship with God without the mediation of hierarchies and that all (including those of other religions or none) have that of God within us to which we can speak and respond in each other. This teaching endures today - a reason for hope rather than sadness.
bangura4uk 3 years ago
Yet, there are those who want to call themselves Quakers while not giving a moments reflection to the distinctions between one's conscience and one's emotions, the light within and our responses to the marketing without.
TheBadBandana 3 years ago
The loss of the values and traditions of simplicity and plainness hurt me too when I attend a meeting for worship.
I've been to silent meetings in which there was no silence, only the babbling of unquiet minds. But this is American culture, to be without reflection, and has nothing to do with other religions or doctrines, but more to do with a lack of education about Quaker practice and the religious philosophy behind it.
TheBadBandana 3 years ago
The essential teachings of Fox seemed, to me, to focus on the notion of God being found within, rather than focusing solely on the text of the Bible.
You have to consider the time he lived in though. Knowledge of other cultures or religions was rather vapid, to say the least.
In the modern era, with everything we know, you can follow Quakerism while not also being a Christian. The same concepts apply.
Arkalanos 3 years ago
Yes, the name "Religious Society of Friends" is based on John 15:14 where Jesus says, "Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you." Being a Quaker means being a friend of Christ and one who follows Christ's teachings. Also it means accepting and believing that Christ died for our sins.
stampguy01 2 years ago
denominations... they remind me of the corinthian book. Paul express his disapproval towards the corinthians when they start forming their little "groups" and calling them by names I cor. 1:10=17. I follow no denomination. I say like Paul said: I belong to Christ. He is my Father, My Friend. He wrote a very detailed love letter for those who truly love Him: the Bible. He gives me strength,Faith for by grace I was saved. I strive to walk in the footsteps he left for us to follow.
ymv1020 3 years ago
Interesting question, as a Quaker myself I do call myself a Christian but I do sometimes cringe at that knowing what great damage has been done in the name of Christianity. Still, I am drawn to the cross and the words of Jesus. If other Quakers believe differently I can respect that and enjoy learning from them as I hope they do with me. I believe God dwells in us all so perhaps the labels are not important.Peace to all everywhere.
1 cor. 10:31
boomac62 3 years ago
"There is a principle which is pure, placed in the human mind, which in different places and ages hath different names: it is, however, pure and proceeds from God. It is deep and inward, confined to no form of religion nor excluded from any, where the heart stands in perfect sincerity." -- John Woolman
kinksfan1 3 years ago
"The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious, and devout souls are everywhere of one religion, and when death takes off the mask, they will know one another though the diverse liveries they wear here make them strangers." -- William Penn
kinksfan1 3 years ago
Thank you.
TheBadBandana 3 years ago
Quaker theology is as unstable as water, much like brethrenism
FirebrandNIRE 3 years ago
If that was meant as a compliment, as a reflection upon the Tao of Quakerism, I am in wholehearted agreement.
TheBadBandana 3 years ago
One more thing, Quakers HAVE statements of Faith, see for an example the Catechism and Confession of Faith by ROBERT BARCLAY.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
The reason I posted here today is because I received two very rude and insulting comments on my videos from people claiming to be LIBERAL QUAKERS.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
For me the essence of the divine is within each person and does not derive from a supernatural being or the words of those who wrote the scriptures. Spiritual unity (like peace) can never be absolute but is something we seek through communion, in worship and daily life, with the divine in each and all of our fellows. This is what makes the gathered silence of Quaker worship meaningful to me. Jesus' life and teachings are an inspiration and whether I call myself a Christian or not is secondary.
bangura4uk 3 years ago
I would suggest you read John Wilbur's Letters to a Friend.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
The simple fact is that you don't have to be a Christian to be a Quaker anymore. During meeting I met some 'Quakers' who were atheists and some who told me they were Christian then in the next breath told me they did not believe Jesus was resurrected or that he was the Son of God...very odd
Bronzewhaler82 3 years ago
"'Quakers' who were atheists"
Wow! How great is your apostasy from our Faith. Fox said EVEN ONE CHRIST JESUS SPOKE, in old English that EVEN means ONLY. For a Quaker only one can speak to the human condition Christ Jesus our God. If you deny that you are not Quakers, you might use the name but you are not telling the truth.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
What the liberal "Quakers" are doing is this - they cannot actually build an institution or church themselves, so instead they take over and "transform" other institution or churches, and remake them into their own image.
The most famous example in the USA is the Unitarian-Universalist church. These "liberal Quakers" sound exactly the same.
AnonymousBChurch 3 years ago
Nonsense. I've noticed a great difference between the hodgepodge (a lovely hodgepodge) of UU services and Quaker meeting for worship.
The taking over, I believe, is only God taking over the hearts of worshipers.
I am a Quaker educated convert to Islam. I was just guided that way. The really funny thing is that the more I practice, and "clean the rust from my heart", the more I feel like a Quaker on a prayer rug. I think we are all Friends in our souls, once we get to our souls.
TheBadBandana 3 years ago
"A Quaker educated convert to Islam"? You never indicated if you were ever a Quaker. But one thing is for sure, being a Muslim you deny that Jesus is the Son of God.
stampguy01 2 years ago 15
It is not me that describe these people as Quakers but themselves.
I attend meetings & I am 100% Christian. I believe Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to salvation
In the UK Quakerism is dying. The number of people attending meetings is getting lower and lower because they admit anyone to membership irrespective of what they believe. My personal view is that if you do not accept Jesus as your saviour you are not a Quaker BUT who am I to judge? "Thou Shalt not Judge" said Christ
Bronzewhaler82 2 years ago
Being inclusive and nonjudgmental was certainly not the point of Quakerism in the time of George Fox. George Fox was exclusive to a fault, thinking Baptists, Independants, etc. had to leave their groups and joine the Quakers, and that his group was the real Christians. Naylor disagreed in a series of letters. The historical Jesus IS the eternal Christ. Trying to separate the Lord Jesus like that is foolishness.
SaudaraLink 3 years ago 4
Very true.
diuint 3 years ago
I agree with you Saudara which is why I no longer worship with the Quakers.
Bronzewhaler82 3 years ago
There are still Quaker groups in the UK (not affiliated with BYM) which uphold the Christian Quaker Faith.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
What's the point of being a Quaker if you aren't going to be a Christian? Why go to a Quaker meeting for felloship where other people there don't consider themselves Christians? I can imagine Fox, or at least Margaret Fox calling such Quaker meetings a part of 'Babylon.'
SaudaraLink 3 years ago 2
Universalism is not the way to go--if you're not for creedalism and the sacraments, that's fine. However, the Society of Friends was founded by a Christian, who believed wholly the Christian Bible, and as such, all true Quakers are Christians. In their attempts to find a more personable God, the more liberal Quakers have tried to create God in their own image.
AnHonestChristian 4 years ago 4
Quakerism is a faith that is growing and changing all the time. 21st Century Quakerism is not 17th Century Quakerism. The statement 'all true Quakers are Christians' is erroneous. However many Quakers still consider themselves Christians.
Bronzewhaler82 4 years ago
No its not. It is dishonest to call yourself after a Faith founded on the revelation of Jesus and pervert it. Our worthy predecessors would have never recognize your liberal meetings as Quaker. And tell your Friends to stop posting insulting comments on my videos unless you want to prove that you are out of the Light completely.
Thank you.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
Can I ask how you justify posting 8 comments on this video while not allowing any comments on your own? And how can I or anyone else know who is posting comments on your video or whether what they are saying is rude or insulting if you dont show them? If you are secure in your faith why do you need this censorship?
bangura4uk 3 years ago
1. The up loader of this video allows comments without approving them so he gives me the right to post here. 2. I am not a liar, and if I ever really need to I can prove everything I wrote. 3. There is no censorship on You tube since you can reply on your own channel. You have no right telling others how to run their channels. Thanks.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
Anyway, thinking about it again....maybe you have a point. Maybe it was a mistake to send all these comments here. I apologize. You can delete them, I don't mind.
Peace.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
Themistoklisp I am not the uploader of this video and would not want to delete your comments even if I was. I have not accused you of being a liar but you have accused unidentified 'Liberal Quakers' of posting rude, insulting comments without substantiating this in any way. I think it would be confusing and inappropriate to use the comments section here to reply to a different video. This is why I regret your 'editing out' of comments (including mine) on your own video.
bangura4uk 3 years ago
You are right. I was wrong to do that but I got upset. I'm sorry.
God Bless!
themistoklisp 3 years ago
When sending a Declaration to the King in 1660 concerning the Peace Testimony, early Quakers wrote that what God reveals to be true CANNOT change. Anyone can claim to be whatever they want the fact is that if you differ in the essentials to your founders, you have founded a different group. And it is erroneous to say that "Quakerism is a faith ...changing" while Conservative Quaker Meetings are springing out of nowhere around the world like a secret revival.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
The very fact that some of the Quakers in this video say 'no, we aren't Christian' should be a good indication that they don't all consider themselves Christian...wouldn't you agree?
Bronzewhaler82 4 years ago
That is one reasonable interpretation. Another reasonable interpretation might be that certain persons are falsely claiming to be Quakers without addressing the essential characteristics of their claim.
Starbuck1954 4 years ago 3
Ah but now you are entering the territory of 'what makes a Quaker' a whole other discussion :o)
Bronzewhaler82 4 years ago
No, its not. That is the true discussion.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
No. Their roots are Christian.
diuint 3 years ago 2
It appears as though some Friends are equivicating unduly from a lack of investment in the works of Robert Barclay (An Apology for the True Christian Divinity), Job Scott (Essays on Salvation by Christ) and reading scripture devotionally and inductively. I fear that this is to the detriment of the Society (corporate and individual) spiritual vitality. The result are false and misleading statements such as some of the un-Christian assertions above.
Starbuck1954 4 years ago
Not all Quakers consider themselves Christian which is an important fact to remember.
Bronzewhaler82 4 years ago
I am not presently persuaded that such is either a "fact" or "important to remember". To the contrary such an assertion is, to my mind, akin to a claim that certain dogs are actually geese. The onus of proving the validity of the statement lies with the party making the claim, and there are significant impediments to persuading others of its veracity.
Starbuck1954 4 years ago
As I understand history, Friends have consistently asserted axiomatically that the Quaker experience is nothing more, nor less, than the most pure and simple expression of the Gospel. It is the detractors and opponents of the Society that were making the claims that Quakerism was not Christian, or that its Christian vitality could not be maintained in the absence of a rigid hierarchical administrative structure.
Starbuck1954 4 years ago
Examples of this attitude should be readily evident by any reading of Fox's Journal or the early Quaker writings. I cannot speak for LYM, but all of the early American disciplines made it clear that explicit profession of faith in Christ is requisite to be full member of the Society. I was unaware that there was a sense that Christ has been leading elsewhere. It seems that such a would be germain to understanding the basic identity of the Society.
Best regards from across the "Pond".
Starbuck1954 4 years ago
Perhaps the American Quakers have a different stance on Jesus than British Quakers. Have you been to meetings and met Quakers? They have no written creed. There is no dogma, creed or set of beliefs that 'must' be obeyed. The very essence of Quakerism is set against dogma. They do not deal in absolutes.
Bronzewhaler82 4 years ago
I am unsure how one can address religious assumptions about the purpose and meaning of the world, our place in it and our relationships with others, without establishing apriori assumptions that serve as "absolutes" for day to day living.
If I am not mistaken, the Valiant 60, Penn, Fox and Barclay were all British.
Starbuck1954 4 years ago 2
Quakers have united on certain important issues such as homosexuality, the importance of telling the truth, womens rights, slavery, pacifism, gambling. The list goes on but on some issues they are (for want of a better word) divided and still disagree. They believe that Christianity is not the only religion that can teach us. We can learn from other faiths too. Yes those guys were all British Quaker pioneers and were persecuted for their beliefs
Bronzewhaler82 4 years ago
Quakers are not united on the subject of homosexuality. Evangelical Friends (including many from FUM) consider it a sin while many Liberals don't. Conservative Friends also consider it wrong. I think you have a very limited understanding of Quakerism and all rooted in Liberal Friends which worldwide are a minority (FUM is the majority). By the way there are 3 different Quaker traditions in the UK today Liberal (BYM), Conservative and Evangelical (according to EFI website).
themistoklisp 3 years ago
"Evangelical Friends missions effort in Europe currently consists of several churches in Ireland, Romania, Great Britain, and Hungary. Please pray for the continued ministry in this area." (see EFI site: Europe).
Conservative Friends in the UK have Meetings in Britain, Scotland and Ireland.
themistoklisp 3 years ago
Very informative. Thanks
2255661 4 years ago
Continued; they are very liberal as Christians go (although some Quakers argue they aren't Christians) Quakers believe in equality of the sexes, homosexual relationships (involving love) are not wrong, alcohol & tobacco are not sinful (in moderation) Quakers tell the truth at all times, they are pacifists & detest violence. They have 'guidelines' for living as they don't like dogma. I hope this answer helps but if you have more questions get in touch with the Quakers and they will send you info
Bronzewhaler82 4 years ago
Would someone please tell me what the Quakers "Believe in". Thanks
2255661 4 years ago
Quakers don't have a set 'creed' as it were so its not easy to sum up as their views differ but basically; God's love & light exists in each and every person regardless of their creed, colour or culture. God is with us at all times. Dogma is a big no-no. Quakers think Religious leaders & scripture are un-necessary to have a relationship with God. They worship in silence without sermons or hymns. They believe the Holy Spirit moves them to stand and give 'ministry' during the silent worship.
Bronzewhaler82 4 years ago
Interesting. Here in America there are "Christian" meetings and...well..more liberal ones. I am part of a Christ centered yet progressive gay friendly meeting but I can't say there are many like us...it seems most Christ centered are not very progressive...
boomac62 4 years ago
Quakerism is a faith based on Christianity but I feel it has come further than that. Not all Christians are Quakers, not all Quakers are Christians. At this year's NYFSG, only about three out of ten people in my discussion group classified themselves as Christians but we all said we're Quakers. So I think to be a Quaker, you just have to believe in "that of God in everyone", not necessarily in the literal existance of God. I don't believe in God, but I still consider myself a Quaker.
saosina 4 years ago
saosina, as a Quaker who doesn't believe in the literal existence of God, what is the nature of "the God in everyone" you and many other Quakers speak of? Just curious.
Kypros 4 years ago
I would say that the "God" is a metaphor for the potential and seed of good that we all bear. To me at least, I would take that to mean that nobody is purely bad, and everyone deserves to be treated accordingly, hence my pacifism and my objection to capital punishment.
saosina 4 years ago 2
Interesting. Many critics of the Bible have said that the god described in that is metaphorical and that the Holy Book itself was never intended to be taken literally (particularly evident in the use of language). Do you think one can object to pacifism (NB: that does not equate promotion of violence) and still be a Quaker? What are your views on abortion in relation to being a Friend?
Kypros 4 years ago
I'm not sure about the pacifist side of Quakerism, really. All the Quakers I know are pacifists, but that doesn't necessarily mean you must be a pacifist to be Quaker. Hmmm...I think you can object to pacifism in the form of passive resistance, if that's what you mean. As for the abortion issue, I can't give you my stance as a Friend, since I don't know how I'd feel if I wasn't a Friend. I've been Quaker all my life. But personally I'm pro-choice.
saosina 4 years ago
As an agnostic searching for the meaning of life, I would fit into Quakerism very well indeed. It is obvious that Quakers are not INHERENTLY Christians, as this and the other videos show, but MOST Quakers are Christians, thus giving Christianity a major role. Non-theist and non-Christian Friendsalso exist.
Kypros 4 years ago
Quakers are INHERENTLY Christians. See early Quaker history.
diuint 4 years ago
diuint, Quakers are not inherently Christians by the simple fact that they have no set creed and belief in God, let alone Christianity, is not essential to adherence to Quakerism. Inexorably however, Quakers have a long history tied to Christian roots.
Kypros 4 years ago
Read Barclay's Confession of Faith which all Quakers used to subscribe too. Actually before the 20th century all Quakers considered themselves Christians. Christianity is not a Creed but a following and obeying the Light, Jesus Christ.
diuint 4 years ago 2
Also Quaker founder George Fox said that God spoke to him, Christ Jesus.
diuint 4 years ago
You're right, but I am speaking of modern-day Quakers. The simple fact that one can be a atheist and a Friend, a Muslim and a Friend etc. show that faith in a literal deity, let alone Christianity, is not an integral part of Quakerism. Only three out of ten Quakers identify as Christians.
Kypros 4 years ago
Friends United Meeting claim to be the largest Quaker body worldwide and they are Christians. Evangelical Friends International have Meetings even in Europe and they are Christian, Conservative Friends have Meetings worldwide and they are Christians. Liberal Meetings have Quakers who identify as Christians so who are the 3 out of 10? Are you talking about Quakerism worldwide or in a particular country (lets say Britain Yearly Meeting in the UK)?
diuint 4 years ago
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was referring to Quakers in the UK, using their official site. Regardless, Quakerism is based on individuality and I re-iterate, theism is not an inextricable belief to being a Quaker, thus it isn't inherently Christian (and cannot be classed in theory as a Christian sect), although it may be that most Friends wordlwide consider THEMSELVES (as individuals) to be Christians. I am not denying the link. I.e. Catholics ARE inherently Christians.
Kypros 4 years ago
Well then I can see that Quakers in the UK must be false Quakers according to your statements of Quakers! I think before you can make such vague and vulgar statements you need to research Quakerism in its entirety and not the mondern day crap. My family came to America with William Penn to escape English persecution so they could worchip Jesus through His spirit in us all and not through a priest!
RyanBeeson 2 years ago