Dan Savage at Whitman College - Is bi-sexuality real in men?

[brandongb93]

i use to be bi when i was like 6 to 12 years old, then for some reason i now am just straight. kinda sucks, i want to like everything but i really am not attracted to guy anymore, at all. girls are sexy af and i dont think ill ever be bi again but w/e

[dROUFrank]

I think what he's saying is that the problem here is heteronormativity, which works in part by setting up resistance gradients. The fact that it's socially easier to be bisexual, not just in the white picket fence way, but in the terms of sexual subjectivity, means that, except in cases of extremely entrenched cultural resistances like right-wing homophobia, heteronormativity acts by bleeding bisexuality into a sort of "auxiliary" heterosexuality, an exception that proves the rule.

[lisambofoh]

I'm a bi girl dating a bi guy. Can't wait until we get to threesomes!

[GodofReapers]

God, everyone makes it very hard to be bi. What I've always said, "Yes, I'm bi. I'm bi, I'm bi, I'm bi -- and if you don't believe me, bring your boyfriend/girlfriend over here and let's dance!" I'm looking for women mostly, because I want to have my own biological child -- that also does not make me straight, 'cause, again, that dance you owe me, sir. The ONLY thing that makes you truly, actually gay/bi/straight, is what you're attracted to. That's IT!

[GaaraSabuka]

As a gay teen who came out firstly as a bisexual, it's as Dan says its kinda like a safety net because you can't predict how someone is going to react and by saying your bi you get this security that you can't be 100% rejected because the person your telling will feel a sense of 'normality' about you---moreover it all comes down to acceptance, until you feel secure enough to fully accept yourself, then there is no way your gunna be ready to handle not being accepted by others -or thats just me:/

[epicmeade]

I think the reason most bisexual people don't come out is that they simply are following the human urge not to want to be ghetto'ised into being part of a minority group if they don't have too. after all, it takes a lot of courage to openly express who you are, regardless of what other peoples reaction in your community will be. so most Bi guys just get married to a girl and then fool around with their male friends in the parking lot of the bowling ally. I'm sure Larry Craig did.

[epicmeade]

as a straight man who lived in the castro for several decades with many gay,straight and bi friends,I've come to the conclusion that IMO the real ratio in this country is more like 15 % straight, 15 % gay, and the other 70 % bi, to some degree or another. which I think is the key problem that keeps religious conservatives thinking that homosexualty is a choice. because for a lot of conservative people IT IS. which leaves the truly GAY people struggling to explain that, No, for them,it isn't.

[salsburyp]

@epicmeade Absolutely! Well said, and the 5/7ths of the Kinsey Scale seem to agree with you. I've felt this way, too. There's WAY too much sex between supposedly "straight" men to be explained away as one-off aberrations. I think that most of them just haven't really examined their behaviors & thoughts, and are fooling themselves with comforting stories while ignoring what they actually DO.

[watchout8433]

Bisexual males tried to be friends to the gay male community and the gay male community lashed out at us with hate...bit us in the face to thank us for our outreach and our efforts...Okay then...If that's how you want it then you're on your own. 

[watchout8433]

Maybe the bisexuals who "disappear" into hetero relationships are trying to escape from judgemental gay fucks like Dan.

[BiPaganMan]

Many Bi people quit correcting people about their orientation when they are in relationships because of the number of people who claim that there are no bisexuals.

What Dan Savage doesn't seem to understand is that his attitude that most bis "become" gay or "disappear" in the straight community adds to this problem.

[FrankDaTank1218]

Bisexuality is okay, so is saying all republicans should die, so is saying you should drag a man behind a truck until he dies for accepting funds from people you disagree with, its also okay to cheat on your spouse, and to want to rape a government official. Dan Savage, a hate-mongering gay man who feigns being the victim of hate-mongering. Don't know what I'm saying? Look it up.

[yentalin12345]

It makes sense that most bisexuals would end up in hetero relationships because if a girl is bisexual she 90% of the guys she meets will be attracted to her but only 10% of the woman she meets will be attracted to her.

[epicmeade]

I personally am under the impression that what's really going on is that most people are bisexual to some degree and that the real percentage in this country would be, oh, say 20% straight, 10% gay,and the other 70% Bi with varying degrees within the bisexual spectrum. this would tend to explain why so many people think being gay or being straight is a choice. because for them it is.

[Fireflygamer]

@epicmeade I agree that to a certain extent you are right, everyone is bi, even Dan has admitted to being attracted to women, very few but some. The question in my mind is are you bi enough to act on it. if that's the standard i would say the numbers are closer to 50% straight 40% Bi and 10% gay, give or take a few %, but I agree we are all bi to a degree its just how much, just like we are all masculine and feminine in varying degrees.

[salsburyp]

@Fireflygamer Agreed. I have a quick rule-of-thumb method for men to determine a rough idea of their Kinsey scale easily...by looking at the kind of pr0n they watch.

Find stuff that you REALLY enjoy, and count the number of penises. (Don't count yours. :-) ) If there are 0 penises, and there never are, then hey! You're straight! If there is 1 penis you're watching while getting off, you score a 1. 2 is 2, and so on...

If there are 6 or more...you're not really watching it for the women... ;-)

[Rosethecomposer]

I agree with Dan about the stepping-stone thing, but I think it should be acknowledged that not all bisexuals who "disappear" into opposite-sex relationships do it out of their own choice. It's not even about pressure from straight people to hide that queer side - it's often about the rejection that they get from gays and lesbians who want nothing to do with us once we're in opposite-sex relationships. I'm not accusing Dan, he's not the problem here. But he should call out the gays who are.

[blueboyblue]

"Is bi-sexuality real in men or is it just a stepping stone to being gay?"

The answer is Yes and Yes. Some men really & truly are bi-sexual. Given the common variation in life and likes, bi-sexuality seems perfectly logical.

Other men claiming to be bi-sexual as a transition phase to saying they are full gay.There is still a stigma to being gay. To lessen the resistance & risk, saying your BI is like saying you are gay but it is OK cause you still like girls. It softens the blow in a sense

[salsburyp]

@blueboyblue A great answer, and it makes me realize that the troublesome word in the question is "or".

The question reads better as: "Is bi-sexuality real in men AND is it just a stepping stone to being gay?"

The "or" makes it into a false-dichotomy (look it up in Wikipedia if you're unfamiliar, and most people are...) and this gives rise to the either/or, black/white, gay/straight, with-us/with-the-terrorists type of thinking you find all over the place.

People need to break out of this.

[PharaohNefertiti]

So if a bisexual enters into a homosexual relationship (as opposed to a heterosexual relationship), do they "disappear" and become gay? No. They're a bisexual in a same-sex relationship. And if/when that relationship ends, they might later be a bisexual who enters into an opposite-sex relationship. But they never stop being bisexual.

[HaploidCell]

How come I learned more about relationships from a 40-something-year-old gay guy on the internet then from living with my parents for 20+ years?

. . . . . .

When I look back on this question it sounds slightly incriminating XD

[cvillasenor2]

as a fluid aka bisexual female, although i agree w/ what he's saying there are also bisexual people who are in opposite relationships and still identify as bisexual but get harrassed about it because people want to check you off in the straight box. I am in mostly heterosexual relationships, especially in recent years, but would i have a relationshp w/ a woman? YES! would i fuck a woman? YES! so let me be and everyone else who defines ourselves for ourselves and no one else.

[minimonsterism]

@cvillasenor2 totally agree!

[NotBadConrad]

Dan nails it on the head again! Had experiences with a bi guy. Totally in the closet. At least in his case he brings bi invisibility on himself.

[SapphireH]

As a bisexual woman married to a bisexual man, I think there's something our gay & lesbian siblings need to remember - just because we aren't currently boffing someone of the same-sex, it doesn't change our inherent orientation, any more than YOUR orientation is changed when you aren't currently boffing someone. You don't stop being gay/lesbian just because you're single, do you? Your orientation is immutable... so...is...ours.

[Fireflygamer]

@Sapph I agree, I think the problem is with straight and gay people that claim they are bi, because they think its cool or they don't want to admit they are gay. These dose a huge disservice to the Bi community because it makes bi people seem disingenuous, which is not true, but its the impression people get. its why when people first say they are bi many in the gay community say "ok we will see". its unfortunate and not bi peoples fault but it seems to be the reality of the situation

[FAYZER0]

@SapphireH Well, I agree with you, but I don't think Dan disagrees with you. He's just saying there are some gay men who identify as bi because they feel less pressured by others identifying that way, just as some bisexuals identify as gay or straight to express a general leaning rather then be burdened by peoples ignorant assumptions about what being bisexual means. The point being it's hard to really answer the question "does bisexuality exist" because identity often doesn't match reality.

[Premiess80]

@SapphireH Yes that's true, people are also Bisexual or Gay for different reasons I think as well.

[warrenjames38]

I fell for a bi guy but I decided not to let things go further because what's the point of a relationship that will definitely have to end when he decides to get married to the opposite sex, which they always do. I know not all bi people are the same but generally speaking there is a pattern and I refuse to be someone's sex toy when they feel like it.

[RT83]

@warrenjames38

"when he decides to get married to the opposite sex, which they always do."

"I know not all bi people are the same"

Slight contradiction there :p

If you know that not all bi people aren't the same, then don't act on the assumption that they are.

[warrenjames38]

@RT83

I think I could have phrased it better. What I was trying to say is that it is a fact that bisexual people generally end up in heterosexual relationships. This is off putting for me because when you are in a relationship with someone you say all the lovey dovey stuff (though naive) like we will spend the rest of our lives together etc but Its much harder to see it that way when you are with a Bi guy because you know that it is even more unlikely. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

[mentalrectangle]

@warrenjames38 Perhaps you've answered your own question as to why bisexuals usually end up in heterosexual relationships. "I fell for a bi guy but I decided not to let things go further". They don't because of people like you, pretty much.

[salsburyp]

@warrenjames38 Honestly, everyone says the lovey dovey stuff, and the divorce rate is more than 50%, so the majority of people don't get it right, apparently.

Perhaps examining why everyone believes in the fairy-tale "we will spend the rest of our lives together" is a better place to start...

The marriages that last a lifetime are people who live each day looking forward and making it good. The ones that fail seem to be people who went in believing in "forever", and getting disillusioned.

[fivesilvercoins]

@warrenjames38 what is it with all the prejudice against bisexuals? how does finding both sexes attractive equal disingenuous behaviour and inevitable cheating? bisexuality does not mean polygamy, or even an affinity to it. bisexuals are just as likely as straight and gay people to stay loyal and true to their partners. it's a question of personality, not sexual preference. please stop generalising, and if you love him, go after him, silly! you will never find The One without a little bravery.

[OtherGonzo]

couple of things. 1. on Dan's blog he linked to a new study that showed that Bi's do exists and told us to wave it in people's faces (consider it waved)

2. Dan, I have known several Trans people who, for awhile, identified as gay. Should I bring that up every time someone comes out as gay? Then why do you bring up the gays who identify as bi every time the subject comes up?

[Sc4r4byte]

well, a straight man can't be enemies with a gay man.

Gay men don't steal a straight man's woman away.

and a paranoid straight man can have a gay man nearby to prevent other gay men from hitting on them.

[ODiTee]

"I've fucked some of them, I know" lol