Clyde Beatty, biggest animal trainer, in his book from 1939, said that lions killed 25 tigers in the cirsus fights, while there was NO SINGLE LION killed by tigers { book you can find on google- Clyde beatty lion vs tiger } !
He also states that lion kills tiger in 9 out of 10 cases !
lol actually all of this footage is from stupid films -.- if you wanna see a real fight not a clip from films , search tiger vs lion in asian parks , tiger always rapes the lion in the end
Ok guys... let's put the analogy like this. Tigers are like ninjas, they hide and sneak up on the enemy and attack from behind. Lions are like samurais, they are skilled in a head to head confrontation.
@nazirdjon I know actually Siberians are less aggressive too. Many of the lions in Everland aren't that big either, or at least the clips they show. Lions are proven to be the most aggressive cat.
@z0ltanz0ltan And you ahhh, expect me to listen to you, try giving orders to your self to not be such a dufus. Speaking of polluting your the one with the sick comment, go over to youboob, that site fits you more.
Why is this my opinion only? As I told you, lions don't have the fundamentals necessary to be the top fighters. Insufficient physique, not cunning enough, fight in a simplistic style as dogs as you agreed. People need to pick smaller tigers for a match. You mentioned a lion fight many tiger cubs. When big cats fight, don't think lions throat is protected by manes, while tigers don't. Hardly any cats die of throat bite. Few people don't believe that manes provide enough protection for lions.
@BillD2012 Because you dont get it, cheetahs are made for running so there legs are super thin, wolves are made to run so there legs are straighter not bulky and thin, but wolves are very tough. Lions have thinner longer legs designed to run longer and better then tigers. Tigers have bulkier heavier legs designed to jump, drag prey, and stalk. But it dosen't just mean there tougher. Lions are more like dogs, dogs are tougher by nature then the cat family.
@Dalen77 Is lion known to run longer? Isn't it funny? I watched so many video, never seen one run over 400yds. Wolves can run longer distance, as I said before, for longer distance, plus they take turns in a chase, to exhause their prey. A cheetah coalition sometimes take turns to chase their prey, and it's far easier for them to catch a prey. Dogs are tougher only when they have numbers, plus, backed by human.
@BillD2012 you can walk into a room wearing a silver shiny suit, and all the tigers will be spooked, the lions will not. You can play loud rock music, the tigers will be spooked, the lions don't care. No single dogs are very tough by nature, why do think that people use them as watch dogs, dogs don't spook as easily. The point is is that cheetahs are designed to run, this is why the legs are thinner. So is the same with the lion, its all by design. Look it up.
@Dalen77 This is a strange observation. I don't have any reference for this, nor is it critical. It only shows that tigers may be more alert. Because their brains process more information.
@BillD2012 Look at the red fox, its a stunning animal, it has everything, cunning cat like intelligence instinct, agility, it can fall of ledges and not be hurt. Its eyes are slits and see in the night. Its claws are partly retractable. Its back and spine are long and flexible like a cat, But it is also has the learning intelligence of the dog family, the running legs, and the loyalty, the ability to advance and build on knowledge.
@BillD2012 Ok then you have the spine and back, the cats back even your house cat, is very long, it curves up, many people attribute cats like a female species, like cat women, the curves are part of that. The spine is longer then dogs it dips down then goes to the hind quarters. Lions the spine is the opposite, it is like a dog, it dips down big time, no other cat is like this, and it is shorter like a dog, and the hindquarters smaller and shorter too, like canines.
@Dalen77 Fox is not the most intelligent wild animals. That tittle belongs to man's closest kin, chimps. As of the rest, I don't know. Maybe what you said is true. If I don't know I don't make judgements.
@BillD2012 No Dalen is on the account, I was born in 78. Ive been doing some research on anatomy, on cats for art, that's what led me on to these pages. I didn't start out a lion fan, nor am I one really I was more in favor of the tiger, but I saw both having amazing strength but with different skills, the lion is in some ways more interesting because there is something about cats that seem almost distant or less connected to humans, but lions almost seem to connect more like dogs.
@Dalen77 Well, I've never heard that red foxes are the most successful. I am afraid that you went to the extreme again. Most agile? I doubt that is the case. It is slower, but being slower makes it turn better. That is why the fastest cheetah hardly catches jackals. But leopard prey on them. Jackals are known to be agile too. The fall mostly to leopards only. These two resemble each other.
Red foxes are preyed upon by felines, coyotes, wolves. If not for human, leopards would be most successful
@BillD2012 Um go look it up, I don't know what is with you, you always put your foot in your mouth, yes look it up, they are I repeat the most successful carnivore in the world, they cover the widest range, look it up. And yes sorry, but the redfox is more agile than any carnivore, and it is capable of being the fastest too, it is much smaller than a coyote but can reach the same top speeds of 45 mph. This is amazing for such a small animal. It is also the most clever animal.
@Dalen77 Well, redfoxes are "least concerned", I know about that but again, don't go to the extreme. Then it is easy for others to find your fault. Don't say most cleverest animal. That belongs to human. Don't forget human are animals too. And foxes don't outsmart chimps, either. And, human in biology are beasts too, just not wild.
@BillD2012 You have no clue what your talking about, depending upon its size on a flat out gallop yes the coyote can always reach speeds of 45 mph, but not all red foxes can depending upon there size and strength, some can, but all of them can turn on a dime like lighting, much faster than any cat or coyote or any animal there size for that matter. they have partly retractable claws too. You need to study some tapes and watch them in action.
@Dalen77 I got my clue from wiki. Look it up in "competitor and enemies" for redfox. And my point is, it is not faster than any cat(cheetah too?)
Redfox are less likely hunted by human because the pose little danger to human compared with big cats. In addition both tigers and leopards have attractive coats, plus many other reasons. Leopards are the most widespread cats, big or small. Wolves is most dangerous to redfoxes. I raised the leopards vs jackals. Leopard hunt redfoxes too!
@BillD2012 Redfoxes were hunted by everyone and still are for there coats, they have the widest range out of any canine, thats the most successful, of coarse bigger animals are going to hunt them, it doesn't mean there going to succeed, believe me wolfs do not feast of of redfoxes trust me, they don't even have much meat to eat. Leopards, what, redfoxes don't live where leopards are.
@Dalen77 I am not saying redfox are not successful. But I hardly agree they are the ones most successful. For anything to the extreme, it is easy to come up with an exception, then it is just false. Just as ancient Europeans crowned the lion "king" then it aroused current debate, it is easy to find that tiger can consistently beat them, w/o involving the biggest Siberian.
You said redfoxes're everywhere. But leopard are almost everywhere. They overlap in Asia at least.
@BillD2012 Its not and opinion its fact, they have the widest range I'm sorry but they do, and yes the are very intelligent, and they have tons of built in tricks that they do, this is why hunters enjoyed hunting them so much, because it was such a challenge, it is not so hard to hunt tigers. They also have incredible endurance and can run forever.
@Dalen77 Unfortunately you still went to the extreme. Hunting tigers is the most dangerous game, even if you've got weapons. Many Russians tried and got hunted by tigers instead. You'd need an experienced group with solid alliance, and dogs too to provide advanced warning. And being elusive, tiger are very hard to find. Because it is more likely they find you first. So for leopards. Not much so for lions, because they're less quiet. Hunting foxes? Pure fun. I am not afraid even w/o weapon.
@BillD2012 Here's some detail there is a reason you can't train your house cat to do what your seeing eye dog can do. That's why if the tiger wants to kill you, its going to, because its is more of an instinct animal. Most of its intelligence is instinct, where as the dog family learns more new things. Lions have some of that aspect and loyalty. Lions paws are partly retractable. There fighting movements and stances are similar to dogs, Clyde Beatty mentioned this.
@Dalen77 Mistake! Lions claws are almost like those of tigers, 100% retractable. As you stated you're a lion fan, why did you screw up on this one? Except lions paws are narrower than those of tigers, and claws are less sharp. Cheetah's claws are partly retractable. Are you confused somehow? LOL.
I am interested in raising a tiger cub too, but I am 100% sure it is illegal where I live. If you hand raise one it will be loyal, at least when it is well fed. When hungry, I'm not sure.
@BillD2012 Ok thats not what I read, I read tigers claws retracted more, I'm not joking I'll have to look this up again, I know I saw this, the claws are a little shorter I think, there limbs are not as flexible as tigers I know that. Lions have more stamina for running Ive seen that, as for who is the fastest in spurts they might be similar, but most of the prey lion has he has to chase down, tigers tire easily ive read, and the stalk most of there prey.
@Dalen77 Well you can improve by reading more, but try to remember well. Your alltitude is not bad. Only this way you improve faster. And, I can conclude that you're not insane.
Lions don't have more stamina. Lions' hearts are relatively smaller than those of tigers. Wolves have bigger hearts relatively, than cats, hence more stamina.
@BillD2012 Ok but I already looked this up, and experts said the lion has more stamina, tigers tire easily. I saw this on multiple sources. And I can't find where it says a tiger runs 50 mph, it says 35 mostly and only for a few seconds.
@BillD2012 Your wrong I just looked it up, its not a mistake, the tiger can independently articulately retract each claw like a conveyer belt, the lion can not do this, I just read it..
@BillD2012 Even house cats are very flexible and muscly, the dog way less, a dog will break its legs if it falls off a house. But dogs run well, the lion is less flexible then the tiger, thinner lower limbs, this hurts its agility but again it is more like the dog family and helps it run better. Dogs lower limbs and feet are always thin, Tigers are thicker and there paws are puffier and larger. Cats have lots of muscle in the hind quarters, dogs less, lions have less, tigers more.
@Dalen77 Mistake 2: lions run slower than tigers, because their weaker legs. This is a less obvious mistake as compared with "lions' semi-retractable claws" in your other comments.
OK, you seem to have acknowledged some facts. Amurs are less agressive, but once forced to fight, they will beat any other cats. When you mention Rome times tigers were less willing to fight, to omitted that Romans said when the fights started tigers are much better.
Some lion trainers got famous for taming lions. Too many have done for tigers. To strike some points, obviously they wanted to brag. I am not surprised at all. That would boost their income. When you sell sth, you'd do the same.
but the fact remains that the tiger is the biggest and strongest of all the big cats............capable of killing adult bull gaur alone............what do lions do.. they hunt in pride
@MyBuntysharma Lions are less afraid and the leaders of the pride are the biggest toughest cats. On average maybe some tigers will be a little larger heavier, but the leaders of the pride are bread to be the toughest with most fighting experience and nature.
@Dalen77 False. Lions are tough to lionesses at dinner time. But when faced intruders, they'd flee eventually, without giving a fight. They can't hunt effectively w/o a pride, and survive a little longer by scavenging. Die and eaten by hyenas. When the father of the cubs is ousted by new conquerors, only the females came up to protect their young. There is such a video, the newly ousted was scared, watching a fight between lionesses and invaders from a distance. Tigers aren't this timid
@BillD2012 Your just wrong you haven't worked with the animals them selfs you have to get your info from trainers not just from scientific knowledge of how heavy the tiger is or how long, both animals are built differently. Roy Horn from Siegfried and Roy, has said the tiger is flexible and forgets easier to train, then he said, but the lion is tough, and he never forgets anything. Clyde Beatty said the lions were tougher, and they fought like dogs, tigers fought defensively.
@Dalen77 Male tigers in India can fight each other for very long time, hardly bite the throat of the enemy, Both know how to defend themselves. Lions vs big tigers would not last. Why. Lions are weaker and poor defenders. It is well known that tigers' bites are much stronger, and they can sustain minor injuries. Why are lions tougher? Their skins aren't thicker, and bones thinner. Well you'd argue that they've got manes for passive protection. But for big tigers that would not be enough.
@Dalen77 In animal shows, lions are asked to do less, like Walking on a narrow beam, jumping over a gap a few meters apart, swimming, find food under water, tree climbing, stand tall on hind feet only. jump high up and catch something in the air, flying through a huLa ring on fire...
Why? Because lions can't do these like tigers. A lion only show would be so boring that people would not want to watch. I judge them by merits. You judge by bias. So, you are a lion fanatic and you don't realize.
@BillD2012 I said trainers, hellooo, get me some trainers quotes ok. Can you argue with Siegfried and Roy? I really hope not, but I'm sure you can, this discussion is really over just by me mentioning Siegfried and Roy, you shouldn't argue with Roy.
@Dalen77 Who cares who they were, they didn't last. People care about facts. Facts can always be verified. Just like physicists, they can verify if Newton was right or wrong. Even if some are right he still could be wrong. The same applies to Einstein. Can you make sound, intelligent judgements?
@BillD2012 Bill if you can't understand natural selection and how environment shapes creatures than your not going to get this, the tiger does not have to fight off an entire pride and beat an alpha male to finally mate, a lion does, this my friend is the difference.
@Dalen77 See, you just make another obvious mistakes and you think it is fact. Lions don't fight an entire pride. Males of different coalitions kick each other out. Male and female don't fight unless for cubs, I've see on TV when lionesses reject a male, the lion(s) would retreat, out numbered! A solo lion can't fend off that many hyenas. Much less lionesses on a united front! Tigers would also retreat when the number of intruding pack animals is big. That is smart. Lions also retreat
@Dalen77 Your knowledge is false and declaring that the lions are the biggest. Spend a little more time. Don't just quote some trainers. It doesn't who they were. They could not change facts. If they stated so, you need to think again if they had some other hidden intention. Check online, and also there are many books about them. These experts could easily mislead somebody like you, but not the rest of the world. You don't realize that you been fooled, and thought you were the smartest.
@BillD2012 Bill no there not the biggest there are certain kinds that are huge though like the crater lion that would rival a Bengal in size your splitting hair here, also the lion does stand taller in the front and its head it bigger not counting the mane.
@Dalen77 See, it is common sense tigers are the biggest living cats! Bengals are not the biggest, and people have skulls of animals. And the brain volume of tiger is also bigger, and that confirms tigers are smarter.
One exception: "American lion" were bigger, only fossiles are found. People guessed that they were lions, but their fur or anthing else can't be found. You kept raising wrong examples, and for this I am actually helping you.(not cougars). Lions canines are shorter too.
@Dalen77 Most lion fans think lions fight more. Hardly the case. Lions hardly fight but intimidate by roaring, etc. They fight to certain degree, rarely, and would stop when one side disengages, and neither one is injured in most cases. When the incumbent senses that he's overpowered, he'd rather run for his life than give it a try. But both genders of tigers far more agressive, fight a lot more, and 30% of males die in such fights. Many tigers were found dead with injuries in India.
@BillD2012 I'm sorry but I don't have a bias, I looked up info, and what your saying is wrong, your a tiger fanatic, I'm just someone who wanted to know which was tougher, and I researched it and found out, your wrong sorry.
@Dalen77 Lions' toughness=audacity. To some animals like hyenas that can't fight back without biting, they look awesome. But not with cats fight defensively. In the "Big Cage", the lion kept biting, ending up in the tiger's jaws everytime, 4 times total. That's because they don't know how to block the tiger, and avoid getting bitten. That is why people don't believe lions have a chance against bears, because they'd charge forward. It happened in CA. I judge objectively. Don't be a lion fanatic.
@BillD2012 In the wild there really is no limit to how adapted these lions would be to have bred in abilities to fight, and they do. Admitted by the trainers more so than the tiger. The tiger does not have this DNA, nor does he have this cycle of alpha male with a lion harem to fight for and spread the fighting DNA to all the next generations of cubs. they only get stronger. Tigers do not have this kind of life, they can live and hunt on there own without fighting other cats.
@Dalen77 What stupid comments! Tigers don't have this DNA? Who told you this? The more I read, The more I think you're just simply studpid, and I am wasting my time. Tiger don't fight other cats? They are territorial, which means the don't allow other predator in their back yard. They enforce this by force. The more you say like this, more stupid you sound! Don't let other people laugh at you. Tiger start playfighting when they are still cubs, they may fight against their closest relatives!
@Dalen77 Lions look audacious at the beginning of the fights, but would turn cowards when they learned that tigers claws and jaws and paws are tougher than their corresponding parts. You're mostly see thing superficial, and hardly the whole picture. Lions feel tigers are smaller because tiger's got ruffs, almost the same as male youngster lions. And would start aggression at the first sight, one on one. But adult tigers have more power, and lions will feel it soon after engagement.
@BillD2012 This is not what the trainers say ok, it just isn't I know what your talking about there is more muscle in some places but it doesn't mean the tiger is going to win against the lion.
here is one >>> Tiger kills lion in Turkish zoo Six tigers remain in an enclosure at Ankara Zoo A Bengal tiger has killed a lion at Ankara Zoo after finding a gap in the fence separating their cages, say zoo officials in the Turkish capital.
The tiger severed the lion's jugular vein in a single stroke with its paw, leaving the animal dying in a pool of blood, officials said.
@MyBuntysharma the tiger is a cute pussycat beautiful coat and shit not fit for fighting..look at this video..show me tiger owning the lion ahahahahaha
@BrokenChinglish i think u r not having sufficent knowledge about big cats....tigers are the bigges cats on the eart.... and in a fight between an adult lion and an adult tiger..tiger has 70 percent chances of winning.....
@BrokenChinglish the tiger is not only beautiful...but notorious for its aggression and awsome physical powers....if u dont believe..see the video on utube when a tigress attacks on a man sittiing on the elephant..and man loses his three fingers....male tigers are even more aggresive than females...then there is another video in which a tigress kill and pull an adult gaur.......see it to believe it...
@MyBuntysharma no dude you are wrong, im just repeating what the experts in big cat biology say, ur opinion is ur opinion and is irrelevant since u have zero degree in big cat biology youre just following ur heart and the experts broke ur heart when in TIGER vs LION = lion won AND BEAR vs TIGER = BEAR WON hahahahahahahahahaha the tiger hasent win a fight hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
@BrokenChinglish Wow! As a fighter in the feline family, pound for pound, lion is only better than cheetah. And cheetah is unique, not design for fights.
@azmagaref the tiger in this video looks so small, it seems as if that is a sumatran tiger or a tigeress,,, a lion stands no chance against an adult bengal or an adult siberain tiger...
This is another thing I noticed as well, the mussle on the lion around its nose and mouth to me appears bigger, I dont mean the mane, I man the the mouth and the face, it appears longer and bigger, could the lion have a bigger head, not sure some say no, but to me, the lions head looks like its designed differently then the tiger, the tigers head looks more house cat like, so perhaps that intimidates the tiger, don't know.
@16JAM77 Actually Ive been watching this stuff even more, and I noticed too, that the Lion has built boxing skills the Tiger doesn't have designed to fight other Lions. The tiger fights like your house cat with quick swipes, the lion will dodge and evade those swipes before they even strike, anticipation, the tiger swipes are like jabs, but the lion's swipes are like knockout punches, they take down the opponent, ive seen this repeatedly, the lion taking down the tiger.
@Dalen77 No! Those are not swipes, tigers are trying to use their claws out of the sheaths to inflict injuries this way. They paw are heavier, with significantly stronger forelimbs, that can instantly kill smaller animals, and make lions dizzy.
@BillD2012 ahahahahahaha @ 4:45 the three tigers didnt want nothing to do with that lion. bill you think male lions are small? have u ever seen a fully grown male lion next to a person? lol
@BrokenChinglish This was the clip you'd wanted to show me. You see, in the BW portion, mostly are small tigers, but lions could not kill them. In fact, a solo lion can't finish a leopard. Prove to me otherwise. Yes equipped with manes, lions can't be easily killed by the SMALL tigers, because tiny tigers can inflict scratches but hard for them to overpower lions. People in Thailand did an experiment. Once shaved off manes, lions get killed by those small tigers, all of them.
@BillD2012 i show u clips of single male lions chasing leopards up a tree, leopards spend most of their lives up trees cause they fear lions @ the end of the clip the tigers @ everland r 600/700+ siberians they will never dwarf a male lion cause lions have giant heads u failed to show me a lion killed by a tiger i can show u link of siberian tiger killed by male lion this isnt vintage bs or statement from people with bias it happened as recent as 2006
@BrokenChinglish Read it carefully, I said not by a SINGLE lion. Leopard typically would run, because when one lion appears, others would soon show up. Leopard don't want to confront two hyenas. Because it is harder to defend that way.
If a leopard sees only one lion, it would not hurry. In fact, a leopard can hold off a tiger too. Unless the tiger is determined to kill.
Lions' skulls are significantly smaller than those of tigers. Nobody can change this solid fact. Proven.
@BrokenChinglish For bigger tigers, it would be very different. Tigers would overpower lions by wide margin, the limited protection provided by the manes is not able to save them from tigers' much bigger jaws. That is why in those old movies, no big tigers. Actually they tried, but lions wouldn't last. To boost the positive image of the lions, small tigers're used instead.
And as of 3 tigers against lion, there is not a fight, and I am not sure what the point is, The lion won?
@Dalen77 The only cat not design for fight is cheetah. Nobody said tiger is not designed for fight. Pound for pound, lions are only better than cheetah. All other solitary cats fight better.
You know lions fight like dogs, are dogs good fighters, compared with cats, big or small?
@Dalen77 The only cat not design for fight is cheetah. Nobody said tiger is not designed for fight. Pound for pound, lions are only better than cheetah. All other solitary cats fight better.
You know lions fight like dogs, are dogs good fighters, compared with cats, big or small?
@Dalen77 The only cat not design for fight is cheetah. Nobody said tiger is not designed for fight. Pound for pound, lions are only better than cheetah. All other solitary cats fight better.
You know lions fight like dogs, are dogs good fighters, compared with cats, big or small?
@Dalen77 If the lions mouth looks bigger, that means the tiger is a small one. Adult tigers skulls are significantly bigger, and canines longer. Lions look big only because of their hairy manes. That is why you need to go somewhere else to make the comparison to gauge the true size difference. Mouths are one area to examine.
In order to give the lion a chance, the smaller tiger was picked. That was how.
@Dalen77 Lions have longer snout, hence less bite force. The bite force quotient is lower, next to jaguar and tiger. Given the highest weight, tigers' bite force is the strongest. Your observation is poor. Judgement is way off. Look up at the web and compare BTQ's of various predators.
@BillD2012 Its not that much, ok the lions have a harder blow to the head, the swing like a right hand boxers blow, the tiger throws more quick lighter jabs and scratches more like a cat, and bites less, the lions bite more like a dog, you can't argue with Clyde Beatty, I have no bias, ive actually liked tigers more for some time and like the Siberian tigers, but I researched this and found out the trainers say the lion would win.
But is the tiger built stronger, yes, its built like a jaguar, so it can do its solitary hunting, and drag a huge water buffalo up a hill. Lions live on flat land and they work together. They don't have to hunt by themselves nor do they have to drag any prey any where. So the muscles are different. So could the tiger win in a fight, maybe if someone told it, it could. But again by nature the lion is designed to fight other lions, the tiger doesn't have the instinct to fight as much.
Tigers are design to fight, no mentality to share, when grown up, except between mother and cubs. That is the weakness of the biggest cat.
Lionesses in the same pride take care of each others young, even suckle. They have something similar like kindergarten. A little like human. These social behaviors are lions' advantage, because it make lions' lives easier. It's harder for a tigress to raise her young all alone. It requires tigress to be better.
@BillD2012 When the weaker lion is run out of course its on its own and yes it will die if it cant beat another lion out of its pride, duhhh. Its called natural selection dufus. And this is precisely why the wild lions would kill a tiger, not just the ones in captivity, because in the wild, the weaker lions die, and the tougher ones take over mating with all the females creating constantly new bigger genetically tougher better fighters.
@Dalen77 Lions kill tigers, sound easy. As I pointed out, social characteristics makes lion as species prosper, not individual strength. Can you get this point? We are debating about individuals. That is not on lions' side. If you compare physical capabilities of lions with any other solitary felines, in terms of fighting, they are just better than cheetahs.That is it. Do so with housecats, cougars, leopards, jaguars and finally, tigers, in terms of paws/jaws/claws usage and jumping, running.
@BillD2012 the individual ability to hunt well does not mean individual ability to fight another big cat well, especially fight for a living well and fight to protect the pride well and females. No your twisting physical capabilities of teeth and claws, muscles to drag a buffalo up a hill, that is for solitary hunting, it doesn't mean that equals or transfers into a fighting mind and ability to fight other cats. Also your forgetting the Barbary lion, this lion was solitary.
@BillD2012 Barbary lions had the biggest mane of any lion covering its underside even, like sheep wool. this lion hunted alone or in pairs. It was also big, and lower to the ground like a tiger, but still a lion. This lion was perfectly successful and was used in Rome and may thought it was the greatest fighter there.
@Dalen77 This kind of lion was in the "Big Cage". So what? how arkward! It has all the characterics as other lions, except bigger, to summerize again, they are weaker in legs, poorer in body balance, slower in reaction time, audacious as all the other lions, unable to defend using forelimbs, and, no match for the tiger.
There were best fighters in Roman times? Are you rewriting the history or what? Don't spread rumors, I am no biginner on felines!
@BillD2012 Ive looked into the whole Roman times thing, there are also reports of Lions winning at this time more than tigers, and many reports of tigers running away and not cooperating in the fights. I believe in God yes, you'd have to be an idiot to think animals as complex as this could some how evolve. I do believe in breeding, and the strongest survive. Whats your problem. You cant argue with zoo keeper of Everland, or Roy Horn, or Clyde Beatty.
@Dalen77 Not only have you denied evolution but Roman records. Enough is enough! You just showed what an stubborn idiot you're. One thing for sure, arguing in favor of lions is just stupid. Only someone like you would insist and spend so much time.
I agree with the tigers in Roman avoided fights, so did those gladiators! and they came up revolting, Dumbass!
@BillD2012 Bill there are Roman records that say the tigers were cowards and that gladiators got the highest rewards for defeating a lion. What is your Facebook?
@Dalen77 You can belittle tigers, but it would change the fact that they are better fighters. For no reason, why should they fight? Tiger are unwilling to fight each other too, for no reasons. And tigers are elusive, which means they are shy of the audience. So are leopards.
Gladiators don't want to fight either. As I said earlier. They were forced.
@BillD2012 You can open up a quick account for fun and use it under any name, it makes it easier, look I'm actually trying to study these animals, and I'm interested in the truth here, I have seen plenty of tigers take a quick swat on a lion at Everland, but I have seen tons of clips where the lions dominate even one on one, and the tigers go into submission. You can see other clips how the lion is able to dodge the tigers blows, especially the strong ones
@BillD2012 So you don't want to give me your Facebook page, if you dont have one just create a random one, you have to be able to copy and paste to prove your argument. I don't no how you can argue with the zoo keeper at Everland, I really don't, but I know what your going to say, tigers are bigger but there stronger but there teeth are longer, ok ok ok, we know that, but again it doesn't mean the tiger is better in a fight ok, there is other factors that go into this.
@Dalen77 Many lion fans don't think tigers fight, but in the latest comment you said the Bengals are most agressive! See, obvious contradiction. Because they are aggressive, more likely they fight to deaths. Lions hardly go that far. You might have read what I had posted about these before, about the ferocity of the Bengals. Few people have caught tigers fighting on tapes, because they are as elusive as leopards, so people had an illusion that tigers don't fight. They earn the right to mate.
@BillD2012 No to proove my point I mentioned an enviroment that caused more fighting up in Nepal, where the large Bengals lived, this eviroment caused the more passive nature of the tiger to be changed because it fought more. These tigers yes I read beat lions, the other didn't. This proves my point about the environment of the LIon its more of a fighting one then the normal tiger which causes it to be more adapted mentally for combat.
@Dalen77 Siberian tigers are unbeatable, not by Bengals. It is less willing to fight. Search for " Amur Bengal" you'd find a clip between the 2. It's obvious that the Siberian wanted to retreat, even it beat the Bengal easily. Tiger B was very aggressive, even it might lose its life it kept on fighting, while Tiger S maintained superiority. This proves the S is strong. As far the lions, the Siberian will kill every one of them, given a cause, such as food, territory, anything essential.
@BillD2012 Siberian tigers are not unbeatable, Beatty has had lions beat Siberians, and actually reading more about Beatty it seemed he felt bad about the tigers he lost over the years to lions. I also just a heard a first hand account from someone who new a professor, that did some research at a zoo in Canada. There was a lion that used to fight all the tigers and hold his own against all of them.
@Dalen77 Many lion fanatic argue when a lion chases around a small tiger that is the victory they are looking for. Depending on the stage of a tiger, it can be beaten by housecat, dogs, leopards, lions,... until they reach full adulthood. Still, after their decline at an age approaching death they can be beaten by lions, leopards, dogs, housecat, until they die becaues of hunger. I am not sure why people don't realize for a fair comparison they have to be health, full grown adults, one on one.
@BillD2012 Ive also seen videos of dogs chasing down big Siberians and the Siberian tiger was running away scared. then I saw the hunters kill it. then I saw a few vids of single lions charging armed men with guns full steam and getting shot mid air as they were about to kill the men.
@Dalen77 Tigers are not afraid of dogs but the hunters behind. Dogs run fast and endure better that make the tiger tired. I have seen it already. There is another one that a tiger was caught alive.
@BillD2012 When the lion was older, he still continued to take on all the tigers, he didn't care about his age he was unafraid. He kept fighting the biggest young tigers, until finally they ganged up on him, he continued to fight and still didn't loose. But after the fights, his wounds got infected and he finally passed away because of that. You have to listen to trainers, not just people saying the tiger is heavier so there for it makes it tougher, this is not true.
@Dalen77 When tigers gang up against a single lion, then lion just get bitten and beaten. When lions gang up aginst a solo tiger, the tiger gets away easily. You can see in a different situation, both unfair, tigers can handle it better.
There is a video on NatGeoWild, lionesses of one pride ganged up against another one, the lioness was encircled and she couldn't break out, and eventually killed. Many times a lioness is surrounded by hyenas, and could not get out of it.
@BillD2012 In the bible which is a historic document to say the least, in proverbs 30 30, its says, A lion which is mightiest among beast, and does not turneth away from any.
@Dalen77 It seems you've quoting bibles now. I realized that your belief of lion being the best/strongest cat is also religious rather than factual. The way you and other lion fanatic argue, really sound religious. The established fact tiger being the strongest is because the physical comparisons, in terms of muscle strength, weight, agility, balancing, intelligence, anatomy comparison for canine, skull bone size, bone density. Except the passive defense mechanism of the mane. Many more areas
@BillD2012 Actually wrong becuase in many ways i think the tiger is a more beautigul animal. You say the tiger can beat a lion based on its weight muclses, and everything else, but what you fail to mention is what the trainers say, about the lions built in nature and instinct stronger paw swipes, ability to dodge and duck as swipes come more than the tiger, the fact that its stands 4 feet tall in the front higher than the lion, the fact that it doesn't spook as easily as a tiger.
@Dalen77 Those advantages of tigers are fundamental, and decisive. Tigers' forelimbs are stronger, but they want to scratch more, since their claws are very sharp. Leopards scratch too, at much faster pace. This technique upsets the enemy hard. You don't know human can't withstand it at all. Lion claws are less sharp, so the males don't climb very well. They are so many vid clips that showed the lions fight skill is deficient, but audacious. They often get in deep danger, don't know enemy well
@Dalen77 Lions are slightly taller, but a higher center of weight make them easy to fall. I have seen so many lions fall in fight vs tigers. Their weaker legs are another reason for this to happen. Compared with tigers, it is harder for lions to get up.
Smaller cats are prettier, their eyes are relatively bigger. I'd rank margay, ocelot first, leopards clouded leopard, then tiger. lioness. Cheetah probably look worst. Lions have long face. They don't take shower, make their manes look dirty.
@BillD2012 Again though this is your opinion, I'm still going on many trainers. Even the Everland Zoo keeper. Most of all your opinion comes from looking at physique not the instinct the animal is born with. Lions are taller up front because they adapted that way to fight other lions. The Barbary lion is lower like the tiger and more adapted to hunting on its own. Ive have looked at so many videos and I have seen many clips of the lions over powering the tigers.
@Dalen77 Giraffes are the tallest animals, but once they fall they can't get up. You see long legs did not help. Big cats fight with front paws, they stand up tall, on hind legs. Lions can't do it well.(the other is cheetah). That is why the technique of lions is poor. Fighting this way is active defense while attacking. That is why a much bigger dog can't beat a much smaller cat. A couple of clouded leopard kittens ate a stray dog much bigger. The dog could not defend, just bit, much slower.
@BillD2012 Some of the best clips ive seen of the tigers winning against the lion are more that they swat more quickly but don't have much force. You can look at many clips too of the lion bobbing its head from side to side like a trained boxer ducking evading swipes from the tiger. Then you see the lion come in with a hard swat that knocks the hands out of the way and forces the tiger on the ground. Beatty him self said the tiger fights defensively, and it does.
@Dalen77 I have seen the videos. Tigers scatch, such scatches are very strong, far beyond human tolerance. Lions can do better, but scratches cause a lot of pain and distraction, and a lot of times stops the enemy from further engagement. That is what leopards do to a solo lion. More effective than you think. Such scratch can sometimes kill, given the right spot. That is what happened at Ankara Zoo. Tigers slap too, with stronger paws, they easily knock lions off balance.
@BillD2012 By the way Barbary lion looks amazing and its mane is like sheep wool, there is a huge 700 pound one living in a zoo. I think its name is Zamba look it up.
@Dalen77 The one in "the Big Cage" is a Barbary lion. It's performance was poor. Somehow Clyde Beatty declared that this lion was the winner. Unfornately nobody could verify it, except Mabel Stark chanlleged his lions with her tigers, Clyde refused. That is why I told you he's not trustworthy, because his label is Lion Trainer, also he handles tigers. According to him he let the two fight on to death. Then he didn't care about the lives of his cats, why not face Mabel's challenge? How 2 explain?
@Dalen77 There is a vid showing a lion vs a cattle. It does not know that the horns are deadly, and before long it was gored to the ground. There is also a fight in CA long time ago, the lion simply charged straight forward toward a grizzly and got killed quickly.. That is why I have doubt if lions can beat big bears. If they use similar strategy as that of tigers, they still could beat bears. Lions do this to tigers without realizing that tigers have strength advantage. They think t'r maneless.
@BillD2012 I know Ive seen that, the lion was unafraid, a tiger would of been running. They don't say have the courage of a Lion for nothing. BTW not all tigers a huge, ive seen many tigers that narrow and look light more like a mountain lion with stripes, the best chance a tiger would have to beat a lion was if it was a really large one. But again you have to look at the trainers, Beatty him self felt bad all the tigers he lost to lions over the years.
@Dalen77 I know the smaller tigers subspecies. At half weight tigers can match lions. Over 300Ibs the balance tips towards tigers. W/o manes, all lions would fall to tigers jaws even the small ones. People in Thailand did experiment like this. Lions really have deficiency with their fight. Partly because physically they are weaker. Many people don't believe lions can beat jaguars. W/o mane they'd surely die. Jaguars the weight half as much as Lions. If leopards weighed twice as much, they'd win.
@BillD2012 BTW, if you look at this video here, at about 2 minutes in the lion is clearly winning and the Tiger doesn't want any more of it, he eventually runs out of the arena and jumps up on top of the tent and falls through it. You can see in that black and white clip to the way lion is able to hold off the tigers fast paw swiped by knocking them down with his stronger swipe. Clearly the lion was the aggressor, Ive seen so many tigers running from Lions in fights.
@Dalen77 You judgement of winning is hardly sound. Lions fall a lot of times. They would last longer vs small tigers. Facing a big, healthy male tigers, no chance at all. That is why people let tigress fight male lions. Why is that?
@BillD2012 This is your opinion, but again Ive heard many animal trainers say the complete opposite. Ive even heard the zoo keeper at Everland say if people think the tiger can easily beat a lion, there living in a fairytale.
@Dalen77 Why is this my opinion only? Lions don't have the fundamentals necessary to be the top fighters for its size. Insufficient physique, not cunning enough, fight in a simplistic style as dogs as you agreed. People need to pick smaller tigers for a match. You mentioned a lion fight many tiger cubs. When big cats fight, don't think lions throat is protected by manes, while tigers don't. Hardly any cats die of throat bite. Few people don't believe that manes provide enough protection.
@Dalen77 As of Everland, I read more reports, is that initially tigers dominated for 3 years, then for many years, lions teamed up against tigers, so it appears that lions are more aggressive. But this doesn't mean much. Put enough hyenas or wolves there, they'd dominate too. The picture is simple, somehow you can't tell what a fair fight is. Only fair fight tells which animal is stronger individually.
Again, people don't pit big tigers vs lions. The result is too obvious. This is verified!
@BillD2012 Bill I'm sorry but I looked at many of the everland clips, and I saw the lions one on one beat tigers boldly making them submit, long videos like the one were looking at here. I have seen more one on one wins with lions than tiger, I have, and trust me Ive looked hard because I want to find the truth. I have seen some quick swipes or scratches on the lions face in a few videos, but lion wasn't really engaged and it didn't care. Give me some links if you gut some.
@Dalen77 As I said before, your judgement is seriously impaired, somehow you keep drawing conclusion in the wrong direction. When I mentioned that housecat/dog/leopard/lion could beat a tiger at different stages of a tiger life, you mentioned that a video clip that some people hunt a tiger, in which you said the tiger was afraid of the dog! You went to such extreme that you make people laugh. It was afraid of the hunters behind the dogs! Why are you so far off? That's called insane!
@BillD2012 Because that is the difference with lion, the lion would not run from dogs or men, you can see clips of lions charging men and getting shot in the head. It is a known thing by many experts that lions have less fear than tigers. My judgement is not impaired, ive looked at years of pages of threads on this from people who are way to into this. Some of the people have every document on lions and tigers printed.
@Dalen77 Your conclusion is very incomplete. As I told you a lion w/o fear is a stupid lion. That is the exact reason it'd lose to a cattle and bear, and as you said here, to human. Fear is a mechanism built in animals for self protection. Plants don't have it. I have seen when a lion cub is killed by an intruder, it didn't run but stayed there, and before long it was also killed. With such obvious danger, the cub could not pick up the msg. That is why people think leopards are smarter.
@BillD2012 So your saying the tiger cub would of run, so many cubs are helpless what are you talking about, you act like lions are some cursed species from mars, you know they are closely related to tigers.
@Dalen77 The differences between lions and tigers are a few millions yrs already. You don't realize human and chimps are also just a couple of millions year away from each other. Actually leopards are related to lions more closely.
What I said is from NatGeoWild, I don't hate lions, I make observations, and I tell truth. My judgement is sound, because I have more people on my side. As I said, you believed that lions are bigger, but I read your comments that you thought S tigers're huge!
@Dalen77 I heard him, in a audio recording, I recognize his voice, and I gave you credit for not making it up. But I heard this before, at least I rember the last word, "I don't want to get into a fight with either of them".
The problem is, you still draw the wrong conclusion. That is why I can't trust your judgement.
It is possible that S tiger may back away, as I told you earlier in "Amur Bengal" clip. Tiger S backed off, althought he could kill Tiger B.
This has been flagged as spam show
LION DESTROYS TIGERS, LT's AGREE ON ONE THING:
THE LION THROUGHT TIME DID'T HAVE THE NAME KING OF BEAST FOR NOTHING.
WHY THEY DIDN'T CALL THE TIGERS KING OF BEASTS??????
zakariadzboyz 1 day ago
This has been flagged as spam show
LION DESTROYS TIGERS, LT's AGREE ON ONE THING:
THE LION THROUGHT TIME DID'T HAVE THE NAME KING OF BEAST FOR NOTHING.
WHY THEY DIDN'T CALL THE TIGERS KING OF BEASTS??????
zakariadzboyz 1 day ago
LION DESTROYS TIGERS, LT's AGREE ON ONE THING:
THE LION THROUGHT TIME DID'T HAVE THE NAME KING OF BEAST FOR NOTHING.
WHY THEY DIDN'T CALL THE TIGERS KING OF BEASTS??????
zakariadzboyz 1 day ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Clyde Beatty, biggest animal trainer, in his book from 1939, said that lions killed 25 tigers in the cirsus fights, while there was NO SINGLE LION killed by tigers { book you can find on google- Clyde beatty lion vs tiger } !
He also states that lion kills tiger in 9 out of 10 cases !
nomadlion1985 3 days ago
oh and btw all of these clips were big lions vs young tigers... Siberian tigers can grow up to 800 pounds ( much bigger than a barbary lion)
dcwcwcw 6 days ago
@dcwcwcw Shut up with your exaggerated claims. Thats why tiger fans have a bad name along with making false videos
KINGARTHUR3341 10 hours ago
@dcwcwcw dummy...why are you under playing...Siberian can grow to anywhere from 500 to 1200 punds more than an African Elephant
hoyfanofboulder 3 hours ago
lol actually all of this footage is from stupid films -.- if you wanna see a real fight not a clip from films , search tiger vs lion in asian parks , tiger always rapes the lion in the end
dcwcwcw 6 days ago
Ok guys... let's put the analogy like this. Tigers are like ninjas, they hide and sneak up on the enemy and attack from behind. Lions are like samurais, they are skilled in a head to head confrontation.
catman1233 1 week ago
@GeneAlchemist7 Siberian tigers or not lion kills them all. no cat fucks with lions. in hunting though, nothing comes close to the tigers.
nazirdjon 2 weeks ago
@nazirdjon I know actually Siberians are less aggressive too. Many of the lions in Everland aren't that big either, or at least the clips they show. Lions are proven to be the most aggressive cat.
Dalen77 1 week ago
@BillD2012 and @Dalen77, you can both fuck off this channel and jerk each other in private. Stop polluting this comments section.
z0ltanz0ltan 2 weeks ago
@z0ltanz0ltan And you ahhh, expect me to listen to you, try giving orders to your self to not be such a dufus. Speaking of polluting your the one with the sick comment, go over to youboob, that site fits you more.
Dalen77 2 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Well done!
BillD2012 2 weeks ago
@z0ltanz0ltan We never drifted far away from big cats. So, you need to be polite, just to show us you've got class.
BillD2012 2 weeks ago
LOL Did the Tiger just play dead?
XxFinalFlashXx1 3 weeks ago
Why is this my opinion only? As I told you, lions don't have the fundamentals necessary to be the top fighters. Insufficient physique, not cunning enough, fight in a simplistic style as dogs as you agreed. People need to pick smaller tigers for a match. You mentioned a lion fight many tiger cubs. When big cats fight, don't think lions throat is protected by manes, while tigers don't. Hardly any cats die of throat bite. Few people don't believe that manes provide enough protection for lions.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Because you dont get it, cheetahs are made for running so there legs are super thin, wolves are made to run so there legs are straighter not bulky and thin, but wolves are very tough. Lions have thinner longer legs designed to run longer and better then tigers. Tigers have bulkier heavier legs designed to jump, drag prey, and stalk. But it dosen't just mean there tougher. Lions are more like dogs, dogs are tougher by nature then the cat family.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Is lion known to run longer? Isn't it funny? I watched so many video, never seen one run over 400yds. Wolves can run longer distance, as I said before, for longer distance, plus they take turns in a chase, to exhause their prey. A cheetah coalition sometimes take turns to chase their prey, and it's far easier for them to catch a prey. Dogs are tougher only when they have numbers, plus, backed by human.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 you can walk into a room wearing a silver shiny suit, and all the tigers will be spooked, the lions will not. You can play loud rock music, the tigers will be spooked, the lions don't care. No single dogs are very tough by nature, why do think that people use them as watch dogs, dogs don't spook as easily. The point is is that cheetahs are designed to run, this is why the legs are thinner. So is the same with the lion, its all by design. Look it up.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 This is a strange observation. I don't have any reference for this, nor is it critical. It only shows that tigers may be more alert. Because their brains process more information.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Look at the red fox, its a stunning animal, it has everything, cunning cat like intelligence instinct, agility, it can fall of ledges and not be hurt. Its eyes are slits and see in the night. Its claws are partly retractable. Its back and spine are long and flexible like a cat, But it is also has the learning intelligence of the dog family, the running legs, and the loyalty, the ability to advance and build on knowledge.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Not a bad example. I don't know foxes that well though compared with felines.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Ok then you have the spine and back, the cats back even your house cat, is very long, it curves up, many people attribute cats like a female species, like cat women, the curves are part of that. The spine is longer then dogs it dips down then goes to the hind quarters. Lions the spine is the opposite, it is like a dog, it dips down big time, no other cat is like this, and it is shorter like a dog, and the hindquarters smaller and shorter too, like canines.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Fox is not the most intelligent wild animals. That tittle belongs to man's closest kin, chimps. As of the rest, I don't know. Maybe what you said is true. If I don't know I don't make judgements.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 I said the Red Fox is the most clever animal in the wild, Dolphins are also arguably the most intelligent, yes chimps too.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 OK. I agree All in these in the last paragraph. I'm going to call it a day. You won't hear from my for a while. Keep writing as you wish.
I don't know where you live, West coast or Hawaii?
I guess your first name is Dale, and you're born in 1977?
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 No Dalen is on the account, I was born in 78. Ive been doing some research on anatomy, on cats for art, that's what led me on to these pages. I didn't start out a lion fan, nor am I one really I was more in favor of the tiger, but I saw both having amazing strength but with different skills, the lion is in some ways more interesting because there is something about cats that seem almost distant or less connected to humans, but lions almost seem to connect more like dogs.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Red Foxes are also the most agile carnivore, and they are the most successful carnivore in the world covering the widest rage.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Well, I've never heard that red foxes are the most successful. I am afraid that you went to the extreme again. Most agile? I doubt that is the case. It is slower, but being slower makes it turn better. That is why the fastest cheetah hardly catches jackals. But leopard prey on them. Jackals are known to be agile too. The fall mostly to leopards only. These two resemble each other.
Red foxes are preyed upon by felines, coyotes, wolves. If not for human, leopards would be most successful
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Um go look it up, I don't know what is with you, you always put your foot in your mouth, yes look it up, they are I repeat the most successful carnivore in the world, they cover the widest range, look it up. And yes sorry, but the redfox is more agile than any carnivore, and it is capable of being the fastest too, it is much smaller than a coyote but can reach the same top speeds of 45 mph. This is amazing for such a small animal. It is also the most clever animal.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Well, redfoxes are "least concerned", I know about that but again, don't go to the extreme. Then it is easy for others to find your fault. Don't say most cleverest animal. That belongs to human. Don't forget human are animals too. And foxes don't outsmart chimps, either. And, human in biology are beasts too, just not wild.
BillD2012 2 weeks ago
@BillD2012 You have no clue what your talking about, depending upon its size on a flat out gallop yes the coyote can always reach speeds of 45 mph, but not all red foxes can depending upon there size and strength, some can, but all of them can turn on a dime like lighting, much faster than any cat or coyote or any animal there size for that matter. they have partly retractable claws too. You need to study some tapes and watch them in action.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 I got my clue from wiki. Look it up in "competitor and enemies" for redfox. And my point is, it is not faster than any cat(cheetah too?)
Redfox are less likely hunted by human because the pose little danger to human compared with big cats. In addition both tigers and leopards have attractive coats, plus many other reasons. Leopards are the most widespread cats, big or small. Wolves is most dangerous to redfoxes. I raised the leopards vs jackals. Leopard hunt redfoxes too!
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Redfoxes were hunted by everyone and still are for there coats, they have the widest range out of any canine, thats the most successful, of coarse bigger animals are going to hunt them, it doesn't mean there going to succeed, believe me wolfs do not feast of of redfoxes trust me, they don't even have much meat to eat. Leopards, what, redfoxes don't live where leopards are.
Dalen77 2 weeks ago
@Dalen77 I am not saying redfox are not successful. But I hardly agree they are the ones most successful. For anything to the extreme, it is easy to come up with an exception, then it is just false. Just as ancient Europeans crowned the lion "king" then it aroused current debate, it is easy to find that tiger can consistently beat them, w/o involving the biggest Siberian.
You said redfoxes're everywhere. But leopard are almost everywhere. They overlap in Asia at least.
BillD2012 2 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Its not and opinion its fact, they have the widest range I'm sorry but they do, and yes the are very intelligent, and they have tons of built in tricks that they do, this is why hunters enjoyed hunting them so much, because it was such a challenge, it is not so hard to hunt tigers. They also have incredible endurance and can run forever.
Dalen77 2 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Unfortunately you still went to the extreme. Hunting tigers is the most dangerous game, even if you've got weapons. Many Russians tried and got hunted by tigers instead. You'd need an experienced group with solid alliance, and dogs too to provide advanced warning. And being elusive, tiger are very hard to find. Because it is more likely they find you first. So for leopards. Not much so for lions, because they're less quiet. Hunting foxes? Pure fun. I am not afraid even w/o weapon.
BillD2012 2 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Here's some detail there is a reason you can't train your house cat to do what your seeing eye dog can do. That's why if the tiger wants to kill you, its going to, because its is more of an instinct animal. Most of its intelligence is instinct, where as the dog family learns more new things. Lions have some of that aspect and loyalty. Lions paws are partly retractable. There fighting movements and stances are similar to dogs, Clyde Beatty mentioned this.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Mistake! Lions claws are almost like those of tigers, 100% retractable. As you stated you're a lion fan, why did you screw up on this one? Except lions paws are narrower than those of tigers, and claws are less sharp. Cheetah's claws are partly retractable. Are you confused somehow? LOL.
I am interested in raising a tiger cub too, but I am 100% sure it is illegal where I live. If you hand raise one it will be loyal, at least when it is well fed. When hungry, I'm not sure.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Ok thats not what I read, I read tigers claws retracted more, I'm not joking I'll have to look this up again, I know I saw this, the claws are a little shorter I think, there limbs are not as flexible as tigers I know that. Lions have more stamina for running Ive seen that, as for who is the fastest in spurts they might be similar, but most of the prey lion has he has to chase down, tigers tire easily ive read, and the stalk most of there prey.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Well you can improve by reading more, but try to remember well. Your alltitude is not bad. Only this way you improve faster. And, I can conclude that you're not insane.
Lions don't have more stamina. Lions' hearts are relatively smaller than those of tigers. Wolves have bigger hearts relatively, than cats, hence more stamina.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Ok but I already looked this up, and experts said the lion has more stamina, tigers tire easily. I saw this on multiple sources. And I can't find where it says a tiger runs 50 mph, it says 35 mostly and only for a few seconds.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Your wrong I just looked it up, its not a mistake, the tiger can independently articulately retract each claw like a conveyer belt, the lion can not do this, I just read it..
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Even house cats are very flexible and muscly, the dog way less, a dog will break its legs if it falls off a house. But dogs run well, the lion is less flexible then the tiger, thinner lower limbs, this hurts its agility but again it is more like the dog family and helps it run better. Dogs lower limbs and feet are always thin, Tigers are thicker and there paws are puffier and larger. Cats have lots of muscle in the hind quarters, dogs less, lions have less, tigers more.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Mistake 2: lions run slower than tigers, because their weaker legs. This is a less obvious mistake as compared with "lions' semi-retractable claws" in your other comments.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
That's just rubbish statistically proven tiger will mold a lion easy at 950 pound siberian tiger and lion at 550 quite a difference here
MrMrkam 1 month ago
some lion fans r just pathetic liars
sunnychan0168 1 month ago
@sunnychan0168 I'd agree 1000%.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
OK, you seem to have acknowledged some facts. Amurs are less agressive, but once forced to fight, they will beat any other cats. When you mention Rome times tigers were less willing to fight, to omitted that Romans said when the fights started tigers are much better.
Some lion trainers got famous for taming lions. Too many have done for tigers. To strike some points, obviously they wanted to brag. I am not surprised at all. That would boost their income. When you sell sth, you'd do the same.
BillD2012 1 month ago
bullshit uploader ! the siberian tiger is the biggest cat in this planet
jimbodelachine 1 month ago
but the fact remains that the tiger is the biggest and strongest of all the big cats............capable of killing adult bull gaur alone............what do lions do.. they hunt in pride
MyBuntysharma 1 month ago
@MyBuntysharma Lions are less afraid and the leaders of the pride are the biggest toughest cats. On average maybe some tigers will be a little larger heavier, but the leaders of the pride are bread to be the toughest with most fighting experience and nature.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 False. Lions are tough to lionesses at dinner time. But when faced intruders, they'd flee eventually, without giving a fight. They can't hunt effectively w/o a pride, and survive a little longer by scavenging. Die and eaten by hyenas. When the father of the cubs is ousted by new conquerors, only the females came up to protect their young. There is such a video, the newly ousted was scared, watching a fight between lionesses and invaders from a distance. Tigers aren't this timid
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 Your just wrong you haven't worked with the animals them selfs you have to get your info from trainers not just from scientific knowledge of how heavy the tiger is or how long, both animals are built differently. Roy Horn from Siegfried and Roy, has said the tiger is flexible and forgets easier to train, then he said, but the lion is tough, and he never forgets anything. Clyde Beatty said the lions were tougher, and they fought like dogs, tigers fought defensively.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Male tigers in India can fight each other for very long time, hardly bite the throat of the enemy, Both know how to defend themselves. Lions vs big tigers would not last. Why. Lions are weaker and poor defenders. It is well known that tigers' bites are much stronger, and they can sustain minor injuries. Why are lions tougher? Their skins aren't thicker, and bones thinner. Well you'd argue that they've got manes for passive protection. But for big tigers that would not be enough.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@Dalen77 In animal shows, lions are asked to do less, like Walking on a narrow beam, jumping over a gap a few meters apart, swimming, find food under water, tree climbing, stand tall on hind feet only. jump high up and catch something in the air, flying through a huLa ring on fire...
Why? Because lions can't do these like tigers. A lion only show would be so boring that people would not want to watch. I judge them by merits. You judge by bias. So, you are a lion fanatic and you don't realize.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Neither have you. There are more experts favor tigers. Tiger fight smartly, lions fight hard, and less efficient.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 I said trainers, hellooo, get me some trainers quotes ok. Can you argue with Siegfried and Roy? I really hope not, but I'm sure you can, this discussion is really over just by me mentioning Siegfried and Roy, you shouldn't argue with Roy.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Who cares who they were, they didn't last. People care about facts. Facts can always be verified. Just like physicists, they can verify if Newton was right or wrong. Even if some are right he still could be wrong. The same applies to Einstein. Can you make sound, intelligent judgements?
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 Bill if you can't understand natural selection and how environment shapes creatures than your not going to get this, the tiger does not have to fight off an entire pride and beat an alpha male to finally mate, a lion does, this my friend is the difference.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 See, you just make another obvious mistakes and you think it is fact. Lions don't fight an entire pride. Males of different coalitions kick each other out. Male and female don't fight unless for cubs, I've see on TV when lionesses reject a male, the lion(s) would retreat, out numbered! A solo lion can't fend off that many hyenas. Much less lionesses on a united front! Tigers would also retreat when the number of intruding pack animals is big. That is smart. Lions also retreat
BillD2012 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Your knowledge is false and declaring that the lions are the biggest. Spend a little more time. Don't just quote some trainers. It doesn't who they were. They could not change facts. If they stated so, you need to think again if they had some other hidden intention. Check online, and also there are many books about them. These experts could easily mislead somebody like you, but not the rest of the world. You don't realize that you been fooled, and thought you were the smartest.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 Bill no there not the biggest there are certain kinds that are huge though like the crater lion that would rival a Bengal in size your splitting hair here, also the lion does stand taller in the front and its head it bigger not counting the mane.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 See, it is common sense tigers are the biggest living cats! Bengals are not the biggest, and people have skulls of animals. And the brain volume of tiger is also bigger, and that confirms tigers are smarter.
One exception: "American lion" were bigger, only fossiles are found. People guessed that they were lions, but their fur or anthing else can't be found. You kept raising wrong examples, and for this I am actually helping you.(not cougars). Lions canines are shorter too.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Most lion fans think lions fight more. Hardly the case. Lions hardly fight but intimidate by roaring, etc. They fight to certain degree, rarely, and would stop when one side disengages, and neither one is injured in most cases. When the incumbent senses that he's overpowered, he'd rather run for his life than give it a try. But both genders of tigers far more agressive, fight a lot more, and 30% of males die in such fights. Many tigers were found dead with injuries in India.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 I'm sorry but I don't have a bias, I looked up info, and what your saying is wrong, your a tiger fanatic, I'm just someone who wanted to know which was tougher, and I researched it and found out, your wrong sorry.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Lions' toughness=audacity. To some animals like hyenas that can't fight back without biting, they look awesome. But not with cats fight defensively. In the "Big Cage", the lion kept biting, ending up in the tiger's jaws everytime, 4 times total. That's because they don't know how to block the tiger, and avoid getting bitten. That is why people don't believe lions have a chance against bears, because they'd charge forward. It happened in CA. I judge objectively. Don't be a lion fanatic.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@Dalen77 I am not tiger fanatic, as you see I have pointed out the merit of lions too.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 In the wild there really is no limit to how adapted these lions would be to have bred in abilities to fight, and they do. Admitted by the trainers more so than the tiger. The tiger does not have this DNA, nor does he have this cycle of alpha male with a lion harem to fight for and spread the fighting DNA to all the next generations of cubs. they only get stronger. Tigers do not have this kind of life, they can live and hunt on there own without fighting other cats.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 What stupid comments! Tigers don't have this DNA? Who told you this? The more I read, The more I think you're just simply studpid, and I am wasting my time. Tiger don't fight other cats? They are territorial, which means the don't allow other predator in their back yard. They enforce this by force. The more you say like this, more stupid you sound! Don't let other people laugh at you. Tiger start playfighting when they are still cubs, they may fight against their closest relatives!
BillD2012 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Lions look audacious at the beginning of the fights, but would turn cowards when they learned that tigers claws and jaws and paws are tougher than their corresponding parts. You're mostly see thing superficial, and hardly the whole picture. Lions feel tigers are smaller because tiger's got ruffs, almost the same as male youngster lions. And would start aggression at the first sight, one on one. But adult tigers have more power, and lions will feel it soon after engagement.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 This is not what the trainers say ok, it just isn't I know what your talking about there is more muscle in some places but it doesn't mean the tiger is going to win against the lion.
Dalen77 1 month ago
here is one >>> Tiger kills lion in Turkish zoo Six tigers remain in an enclosure at Ankara Zoo A Bengal tiger has killed a lion at Ankara Zoo after finding a gap in the fence separating their cages, say zoo officials in the Turkish capital.
The tiger severed the lion's jugular vein in a single stroke with its paw, leaving the animal dying in a pool of blood, officials said.
nakhan69 1 month ago
I can give u some link that tiger eating lion for breakfast
nakhan69 1 month ago
lol the bengle TIGERRRRRRRRRRRR eat lion for breakfast
nakhan69 1 month ago
Tigers got balls though. Except the white ones. White ones are pussy.
westerlin01 1 month ago
In the colosseum when the romans pitted tiger against lion, tiger killed the lion everytime.
Rej811 1 month ago
all you lion haters come on , the tiger looks like my cat only bigger while the king of beasts is beautiful powerful and wild ...
azmagaref 1 month ago
@azmagaref Yes the tiger is all cat, the lion has attributes of the dog family with social intelligence and a fearless nature like wolfs.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 This sounds more rational, and point out the merit of the lions.
BillD2012 1 month ago
lions are the king of beast..fuck you tiger fans -gives them the middle finger-
BrokenChinglish 1 month ago
@BrokenChinglish and the tiger is the king of kings
MyBuntysharma 1 month ago
@MyBuntysharma the tiger is a cute pussycat beautiful coat and shit not fit for fighting..look at this video..show me tiger owning the lion ahahahahaha
BrokenChinglish 1 month ago
@BrokenChinglish i think u r not having sufficent knowledge about big cats....tigers are the bigges cats on the eart.... and in a fight between an adult lion and an adult tiger..tiger has 70 percent chances of winning.....
MyBuntysharma 1 month ago
@BrokenChinglish the tiger is not only beautiful...but notorious for its aggression and awsome physical powers....if u dont believe..see the video on utube when a tigress attacks on a man sittiing on the elephant..and man loses his three fingers....male tigers are even more aggresive than females...then there is another video in which a tigress kill and pull an adult gaur.......see it to believe it...
MyBuntysharma 1 month ago
@MyBuntysharma no dude you are wrong, im just repeating what the experts in big cat biology say, ur opinion is ur opinion and is irrelevant since u have zero degree in big cat biology youre just following ur heart and the experts broke ur heart when in TIGER vs LION = lion won AND BEAR vs TIGER = BEAR WON hahahahahahahahahaha the tiger hasent win a fight hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
BrokenChinglish 1 month ago
@MyBuntysharma BrokenChinglish is insane. This person just couldn't tell why tigers are stronger, most stupid I've ever seen.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BrokenChinglish Wow! As a fighter in the feline family, pound for pound, lion is only better than cheetah. And cheetah is unique, not design for fights.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BrokenChinglish See, this guy turned mad. I've suggest that he go to see a doctor.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 did u see the three tigers submitting to the one lion? lmao
BrokenChinglish 1 month ago
tigers dont stand a chance against a true african lion
azmagaref 1 month ago
@azmagaref the tiger in this video looks so small, it seems as if that is a sumatran tiger or a tigeress,,, a lion stands no chance against an adult bengal or an adult siberain tiger...
MyBuntysharma 1 month ago
@MyBuntysharma its not only one tiger in this video , looks like you haven't watched the whole video
azmagaref 1 month ago
There 99% the same animal, who cares who can fight who
miggysss1 1 month ago
This is another thing I noticed as well, the mussle on the lion around its nose and mouth to me appears bigger, I dont mean the mane, I man the the mouth and the face, it appears longer and bigger, could the lion have a bigger head, not sure some say no, but to me, the lions head looks like its designed differently then the tiger, the tigers head looks more house cat like, so perhaps that intimidates the tiger, don't know.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77
smart dude, what u have said makes sense.
16JAM77 1 month ago
@16JAM77 Actually Ive been watching this stuff even more, and I noticed too, that the Lion has built boxing skills the Tiger doesn't have designed to fight other Lions. The tiger fights like your house cat with quick swipes, the lion will dodge and evade those swipes before they even strike, anticipation, the tiger swipes are like jabs, but the lion's swipes are like knockout punches, they take down the opponent, ive seen this repeatedly, the lion taking down the tiger.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 No! Those are not swipes, tigers are trying to use their claws out of the sheaths to inflict injuries this way. They paw are heavier, with significantly stronger forelimbs, that can instantly kill smaller animals, and make lions dizzy.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 ahahahahahaha @ 4:45 the three tigers didnt want nothing to do with that lion. bill you think male lions are small? have u ever seen a fully grown male lion next to a person? lol
BrokenChinglish 1 month ago
@BrokenChinglish This was the clip you'd wanted to show me. You see, in the BW portion, mostly are small tigers, but lions could not kill them. In fact, a solo lion can't finish a leopard. Prove to me otherwise. Yes equipped with manes, lions can't be easily killed by the SMALL tigers, because tiny tigers can inflict scratches but hard for them to overpower lions. People in Thailand did an experiment. Once shaved off manes, lions get killed by those small tigers, all of them.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 i show u clips of single male lions chasing leopards up a tree, leopards spend most of their lives up trees cause they fear lions @ the end of the clip the tigers @ everland r 600/700+ siberians they will never dwarf a male lion cause lions have giant heads u failed to show me a lion killed by a tiger i can show u link of siberian tiger killed by male lion this isnt vintage bs or statement from people with bias it happened as recent as 2006
BrokenChinglish 1 month ago
@BrokenChinglish Read it carefully, I said not by a SINGLE lion. Leopard typically would run, because when one lion appears, others would soon show up. Leopard don't want to confront two hyenas. Because it is harder to defend that way.
If a leopard sees only one lion, it would not hurry. In fact, a leopard can hold off a tiger too. Unless the tiger is determined to kill.
Lions' skulls are significantly smaller than those of tigers. Nobody can change this solid fact. Proven.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BrokenChinglish For bigger tigers, it would be very different. Tigers would overpower lions by wide margin, the limited protection provided by the manes is not able to save them from tigers' much bigger jaws. That is why in those old movies, no big tigers. Actually they tried, but lions wouldn't last. To boost the positive image of the lions, small tigers're used instead.
And as of 3 tigers against lion, there is not a fight, and I am not sure what the point is, The lion won?
BillD2012 1 month ago
@Dalen77 The only cat not design for fight is cheetah. Nobody said tiger is not designed for fight. Pound for pound, lions are only better than cheetah. All other solitary cats fight better.
You know lions fight like dogs, are dogs good fighters, compared with cats, big or small?
BillD2012 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Dalen77 The only cat not design for fight is cheetah. Nobody said tiger is not designed for fight. Pound for pound, lions are only better than cheetah. All other solitary cats fight better.
You know lions fight like dogs, are dogs good fighters, compared with cats, big or small?
BillD2012 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Dalen77 The only cat not design for fight is cheetah. Nobody said tiger is not designed for fight. Pound for pound, lions are only better than cheetah. All other solitary cats fight better.
You know lions fight like dogs, are dogs good fighters, compared with cats, big or small?
BillD2012 1 month ago
@Dalen77 If the lions mouth looks bigger, that means the tiger is a small one. Adult tigers skulls are significantly bigger, and canines longer. Lions look big only because of their hairy manes. That is why you need to go somewhere else to make the comparison to gauge the true size difference. Mouths are one area to examine.
In order to give the lion a chance, the smaller tiger was picked. That was how.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Lions have longer snout, hence less bite force. The bite force quotient is lower, next to jaguar and tiger. Given the highest weight, tigers' bite force is the strongest. Your observation is poor. Judgement is way off. Look up at the web and compare BTQ's of various predators.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 Its not that much, ok the lions have a harder blow to the head, the swing like a right hand boxers blow, the tiger throws more quick lighter jabs and scratches more like a cat, and bites less, the lions bite more like a dog, you can't argue with Clyde Beatty, I have no bias, ive actually liked tigers more for some time and like the Siberian tigers, but I researched this and found out the trainers say the lion would win.
Dalen77 1 month ago
But is the tiger built stronger, yes, its built like a jaguar, so it can do its solitary hunting, and drag a huge water buffalo up a hill. Lions live on flat land and they work together. They don't have to hunt by themselves nor do they have to drag any prey any where. So the muscles are different. So could the tiger win in a fight, maybe if someone told it, it could. But again by nature the lion is designed to fight other lions, the tiger doesn't have the instinct to fight as much.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Make sense and mostly true.
Tigers are design to fight, no mentality to share, when grown up, except between mother and cubs. That is the weakness of the biggest cat.
Lionesses in the same pride take care of each others young, even suckle. They have something similar like kindergarten. A little like human. These social behaviors are lions' advantage, because it make lions' lives easier. It's harder for a tigress to raise her young all alone. It requires tigress to be better.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 When the weaker lion is run out of course its on its own and yes it will die if it cant beat another lion out of its pride, duhhh. Its called natural selection dufus. And this is precisely why the wild lions would kill a tiger, not just the ones in captivity, because in the wild, the weaker lions die, and the tougher ones take over mating with all the females creating constantly new bigger genetically tougher better fighters.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Lions kill tigers, sound easy. As I pointed out, social characteristics makes lion as species prosper, not individual strength. Can you get this point? We are debating about individuals. That is not on lions' side. If you compare physical capabilities of lions with any other solitary felines, in terms of fighting, they are just better than cheetahs.That is it. Do so with housecats, cougars, leopards, jaguars and finally, tigers, in terms of paws/jaws/claws usage and jumping, running.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 the individual ability to hunt well does not mean individual ability to fight another big cat well, especially fight for a living well and fight to protect the pride well and females. No your twisting physical capabilities of teeth and claws, muscles to drag a buffalo up a hill, that is for solitary hunting, it doesn't mean that equals or transfers into a fighting mind and ability to fight other cats. Also your forgetting the Barbary lion, this lion was solitary.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@BillD2012 Barbary lions had the biggest mane of any lion covering its underside even, like sheep wool. this lion hunted alone or in pairs. It was also big, and lower to the ground like a tiger, but still a lion. This lion was perfectly successful and was used in Rome and may thought it was the greatest fighter there.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 This kind of lion was in the "Big Cage". So what? how arkward! It has all the characterics as other lions, except bigger, to summerize again, they are weaker in legs, poorer in body balance, slower in reaction time, audacious as all the other lions, unable to defend using forelimbs, and, no match for the tiger.
There were best fighters in Roman times? Are you rewriting the history or what? Don't spread rumors, I am no biginner on felines!
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 Ive looked into the whole Roman times thing, there are also reports of Lions winning at this time more than tigers, and many reports of tigers running away and not cooperating in the fights. I believe in God yes, you'd have to be an idiot to think animals as complex as this could some how evolve. I do believe in breeding, and the strongest survive. Whats your problem. You cant argue with zoo keeper of Everland, or Roy Horn, or Clyde Beatty.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Not only have you denied evolution but Roman records. Enough is enough! You just showed what an stubborn idiot you're. One thing for sure, arguing in favor of lions is just stupid. Only someone like you would insist and spend so much time.
I agree with the tigers in Roman avoided fights, so did those gladiators! and they came up revolting, Dumbass!
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 Bill there are Roman records that say the tigers were cowards and that gladiators got the highest rewards for defeating a lion. What is your Facebook?
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 You can belittle tigers, but it would change the fact that they are better fighters. For no reason, why should they fight? Tiger are unwilling to fight each other too, for no reasons. And tigers are elusive, which means they are shy of the audience. So are leopards.
Gladiators don't want to fight either. As I said earlier. They were forced.
I don't use facebook/twitter.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 You can open up a quick account for fun and use it under any name, it makes it easier, look I'm actually trying to study these animals, and I'm interested in the truth here, I have seen plenty of tigers take a quick swat on a lion at Everland, but I have seen tons of clips where the lions dominate even one on one, and the tigers go into submission. You can see other clips how the lion is able to dodge the tigers blows, especially the strong ones
Dalen77 1 month ago
@BillD2012 So you don't want to give me your Facebook page, if you dont have one just create a random one, you have to be able to copy and paste to prove your argument. I don't no how you can argue with the zoo keeper at Everland, I really don't, but I know what your going to say, tigers are bigger but there stronger but there teeth are longer, ok ok ok, we know that, but again it doesn't mean the tiger is better in a fight ok, there is other factors that go into this.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Many lion fans don't think tigers fight, but in the latest comment you said the Bengals are most agressive! See, obvious contradiction. Because they are aggressive, more likely they fight to deaths. Lions hardly go that far. You might have read what I had posted about these before, about the ferocity of the Bengals. Few people have caught tigers fighting on tapes, because they are as elusive as leopards, so people had an illusion that tigers don't fight. They earn the right to mate.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 No to proove my point I mentioned an enviroment that caused more fighting up in Nepal, where the large Bengals lived, this eviroment caused the more passive nature of the tiger to be changed because it fought more. These tigers yes I read beat lions, the other didn't. This proves my point about the environment of the LIon its more of a fighting one then the normal tiger which causes it to be more adapted mentally for combat.
Dalen77 1 month ago
@Dalen77 Siberian tigers are unbeatable, not by Bengals. It is less willing to fight. Search for " Amur Bengal" you'd find a clip between the 2. It's obvious that the Siberian wanted to retreat, even it beat the Bengal easily. Tiger B was very aggressive, even it might lose its life it kept on fighting, while Tiger S maintained superiority. This proves the S is strong. As far the lions, the Siberian will kill every one of them, given a cause, such as food, territory, anything essential.
BillD2012 1 month ago
@BillD2012 Siberian tigers are not unbeatable, Beatty has had lions beat Siberians, and actually reading more about Beatty it seemed he felt bad about the tigers he lost over the years to lions. I also just a heard a first hand account from someone who new a professor, that did some research at a zoo in Canada. There was a lion that used to fight all the tigers and hold his own against all of them.
Dalen77 4 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Many lion fanatic argue when a lion chases around a small tiger that is the victory they are looking for. Depending on the stage of a tiger, it can be beaten by housecat, dogs, leopards, lions,... until they reach full adulthood. Still, after their decline at an age approaching death they can be beaten by lions, leopards, dogs, housecat, until they die becaues of hunger. I am not sure why people don't realize for a fair comparison they have to be health, full grown adults, one on one.
BillD2012 4 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Ive also seen videos of dogs chasing down big Siberians and the Siberian tiger was running away scared. then I saw the hunters kill it. then I saw a few vids of single lions charging armed men with guns full steam and getting shot mid air as they were about to kill the men.
Dalen77 4 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Tigers are not afraid of dogs but the hunters behind. Dogs run fast and endure better that make the tiger tired. I have seen it already. There is another one that a tiger was caught alive.
BillD2012 4 weeks ago
@BillD2012 When the lion was older, he still continued to take on all the tigers, he didn't care about his age he was unafraid. He kept fighting the biggest young tigers, until finally they ganged up on him, he continued to fight and still didn't loose. But after the fights, his wounds got infected and he finally passed away because of that. You have to listen to trainers, not just people saying the tiger is heavier so there for it makes it tougher, this is not true.
Dalen77 4 weeks ago
@Dalen77 When tigers gang up against a single lion, then lion just get bitten and beaten. When lions gang up aginst a solo tiger, the tiger gets away easily. You can see in a different situation, both unfair, tigers can handle it better.
There is a video on NatGeoWild, lionesses of one pride ganged up against another one, the lioness was encircled and she couldn't break out, and eventually killed. Many times a lioness is surrounded by hyenas, and could not get out of it.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 In the bible which is a historic document to say the least, in proverbs 30 30, its says, A lion which is mightiest among beast, and does not turneth away from any.
Dalen77 4 weeks ago
@Dalen77 It seems you've quoting bibles now. I realized that your belief of lion being the best/strongest cat is also religious rather than factual. The way you and other lion fanatic argue, really sound religious. The established fact tiger being the strongest is because the physical comparisons, in terms of muscle strength, weight, agility, balancing, intelligence, anatomy comparison for canine, skull bone size, bone density. Except the passive defense mechanism of the mane. Many more areas
BillD2012 4 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Actually wrong becuase in many ways i think the tiger is a more beautigul animal. You say the tiger can beat a lion based on its weight muclses, and everything else, but what you fail to mention is what the trainers say, about the lions built in nature and instinct stronger paw swipes, ability to dodge and duck as swipes come more than the tiger, the fact that its stands 4 feet tall in the front higher than the lion, the fact that it doesn't spook as easily as a tiger.
Dalen77 4 weeks ago
@Dalen77 I meant to say beautiful animal.
Dalen77 4 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Those advantages of tigers are fundamental, and decisive. Tigers' forelimbs are stronger, but they want to scratch more, since their claws are very sharp. Leopards scratch too, at much faster pace. This technique upsets the enemy hard. You don't know human can't withstand it at all. Lion claws are less sharp, so the males don't climb very well. They are so many vid clips that showed the lions fight skill is deficient, but audacious. They often get in deep danger, don't know enemy well
BillD2012 4 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Lions are slightly taller, but a higher center of weight make them easy to fall. I have seen so many lions fall in fight vs tigers. Their weaker legs are another reason for this to happen. Compared with tigers, it is harder for lions to get up.
Smaller cats are prettier, their eyes are relatively bigger. I'd rank margay, ocelot first, leopards clouded leopard, then tiger. lioness. Cheetah probably look worst. Lions have long face. They don't take shower, make their manes look dirty.
BillD2012 4 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Again though this is your opinion, I'm still going on many trainers. Even the Everland Zoo keeper. Most of all your opinion comes from looking at physique not the instinct the animal is born with. Lions are taller up front because they adapted that way to fight other lions. The Barbary lion is lower like the tiger and more adapted to hunting on its own. Ive have looked at so many videos and I have seen many clips of the lions over powering the tigers.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Giraffes are the tallest animals, but once they fall they can't get up. You see long legs did not help. Big cats fight with front paws, they stand up tall, on hind legs. Lions can't do it well.(the other is cheetah). That is why the technique of lions is poor. Fighting this way is active defense while attacking. That is why a much bigger dog can't beat a much smaller cat. A couple of clouded leopard kittens ate a stray dog much bigger. The dog could not defend, just bit, much slower.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Some of the best clips ive seen of the tigers winning against the lion are more that they swat more quickly but don't have much force. You can look at many clips too of the lion bobbing its head from side to side like a trained boxer ducking evading swipes from the tiger. Then you see the lion come in with a hard swat that knocks the hands out of the way and forces the tiger on the ground. Beatty him self said the tiger fights defensively, and it does.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 I have seen the videos. Tigers scatch, such scatches are very strong, far beyond human tolerance. Lions can do better, but scratches cause a lot of pain and distraction, and a lot of times stops the enemy from further engagement. That is what leopards do to a solo lion. More effective than you think. Such scratch can sometimes kill, given the right spot. That is what happened at Ankara Zoo. Tigers slap too, with stronger paws, they easily knock lions off balance.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 By the way Barbary lion looks amazing and its mane is like sheep wool, there is a huge 700 pound one living in a zoo. I think its name is Zamba look it up.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 The one in "the Big Cage" is a Barbary lion. It's performance was poor. Somehow Clyde Beatty declared that this lion was the winner. Unfornately nobody could verify it, except Mabel Stark chanlleged his lions with her tigers, Clyde refused. That is why I told you he's not trustworthy, because his label is Lion Trainer, also he handles tigers. According to him he let the two fight on to death. Then he didn't care about the lives of his cats, why not face Mabel's challenge? How 2 explain?
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 There is a vid showing a lion vs a cattle. It does not know that the horns are deadly, and before long it was gored to the ground. There is also a fight in CA long time ago, the lion simply charged straight forward toward a grizzly and got killed quickly.. That is why I have doubt if lions can beat big bears. If they use similar strategy as that of tigers, they still could beat bears. Lions do this to tigers without realizing that tigers have strength advantage. They think t'r maneless.
BillD2012 4 weeks ago
@BillD2012 I know Ive seen that, the lion was unafraid, a tiger would of been running. They don't say have the courage of a Lion for nothing. BTW not all tigers a huge, ive seen many tigers that narrow and look light more like a mountain lion with stripes, the best chance a tiger would have to beat a lion was if it was a really large one. But again you have to look at the trainers, Beatty him self felt bad all the tigers he lost to lions over the years.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 I know the smaller tigers subspecies. At half weight tigers can match lions. Over 300Ibs the balance tips towards tigers. W/o manes, all lions would fall to tigers jaws even the small ones. People in Thailand did experiment like this. Lions really have deficiency with their fight. Partly because physically they are weaker. Many people don't believe lions can beat jaguars. W/o mane they'd surely die. Jaguars the weight half as much as Lions. If leopards weighed twice as much, they'd win.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 BTW, if you look at this video here, at about 2 minutes in the lion is clearly winning and the Tiger doesn't want any more of it, he eventually runs out of the arena and jumps up on top of the tent and falls through it. You can see in that black and white clip to the way lion is able to hold off the tigers fast paw swiped by knocking them down with his stronger swipe. Clearly the lion was the aggressor, Ive seen so many tigers running from Lions in fights.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 You judgement of winning is hardly sound. Lions fall a lot of times. They would last longer vs small tigers. Facing a big, healthy male tigers, no chance at all. That is why people let tigress fight male lions. Why is that?
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 This is your opinion, but again Ive heard many animal trainers say the complete opposite. Ive even heard the zoo keeper at Everland say if people think the tiger can easily beat a lion, there living in a fairytale.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Dalen77 Why is this my opinion only? Lions don't have the fundamentals necessary to be the top fighters for its size. Insufficient physique, not cunning enough, fight in a simplistic style as dogs as you agreed. People need to pick smaller tigers for a match. You mentioned a lion fight many tiger cubs. When big cats fight, don't think lions throat is protected by manes, while tigers don't. Hardly any cats die of throat bite. Few people don't believe that manes provide enough protection.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 As of Everland, I read more reports, is that initially tigers dominated for 3 years, then for many years, lions teamed up against tigers, so it appears that lions are more aggressive. But this doesn't mean much. Put enough hyenas or wolves there, they'd dominate too. The picture is simple, somehow you can't tell what a fair fight is. Only fair fight tells which animal is stronger individually.
Again, people don't pit big tigers vs lions. The result is too obvious. This is verified!
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Bill I'm sorry but I looked at many of the everland clips, and I saw the lions one on one beat tigers boldly making them submit, long videos like the one were looking at here. I have seen more one on one wins with lions than tiger, I have, and trust me Ive looked hard because I want to find the truth. I have seen some quick swipes or scratches on the lions face in a few videos, but lion wasn't really engaged and it didn't care. Give me some links if you gut some.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 As I said before, your judgement is seriously impaired, somehow you keep drawing conclusion in the wrong direction. When I mentioned that housecat/dog/leopard/lion could beat a tiger at different stages of a tiger life, you mentioned that a video clip that some people hunt a tiger, in which you said the tiger was afraid of the dog! You went to such extreme that you make people laugh. It was afraid of the hunters behind the dogs! Why are you so far off? That's called insane!
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Because that is the difference with lion, the lion would not run from dogs or men, you can see clips of lions charging men and getting shot in the head. It is a known thing by many experts that lions have less fear than tigers. My judgement is not impaired, ive looked at years of pages of threads on this from people who are way to into this. Some of the people have every document on lions and tigers printed.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 Your conclusion is very incomplete. As I told you a lion w/o fear is a stupid lion. That is the exact reason it'd lose to a cattle and bear, and as you said here, to human. Fear is a mechanism built in animals for self protection. Plants don't have it. I have seen when a lion cub is killed by an intruder, it didn't run but stayed there, and before long it was also killed. With such obvious danger, the cub could not pick up the msg. That is why people think leopards are smarter.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 So your saying the tiger cub would of run, so many cubs are helpless what are you talking about, you act like lions are some cursed species from mars, you know they are closely related to tigers.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 The differences between lions and tigers are a few millions yrs already. You don't realize human and chimps are also just a couple of millions year away from each other. Actually leopards are related to lions more closely.
What I said is from NatGeoWild, I don't hate lions, I make observations, and I tell truth. My judgement is sound, because I have more people on my side. As I said, you believed that lions are bigger, but I read your comments that you thought S tigers're huge!
BillD2012 3 weeks ago
@BillD2012 Ok found it, look up Dave Salmoni says the lion would win. And he said this during Tiger week.
Dalen77 3 weeks ago
@Dalen77 I heard him, in a audio recording, I recognize his voice, and I gave you credit for not making it up. But I heard this before, at least I rember the last word, "I don't want to get into a fight with either of them".
The problem is, you still draw the wrong conclusion. That is why I can't trust your judgement.
It is possible that S tiger may back away, as I told you earlier in "Amur Bengal" clip. Tiger S backed off, althought he could kill Tiger B.
BillD2012 3 weeks ago